Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on January 29, 2012, 11:30:14 AM
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Available Sunday evening.
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Great effort and hard luck lads - so much better than the surrender at man city last season - at least we gave it our best shot and have our pride back in the team.
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Even at 2-0 .you knew it
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Great effort and hard luck lads - so much better than the surrender at man city last season - at least we gave it our best shot and have our pride back in the team.
Pride?
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Great effort and hard luck lads - so much better than the surrender at man city last season - at least we gave it our best shot and have our pride back in the team.
Hard luck? There was no luck involved in us giving away 3 goals in 15 mins, it was an astounding level of ineptness and and and...
Fuck it.
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Depressingly predictable
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Surprising two goals in the first half, but that's where the surprises ended. Inevitable result. Now we can concentrate on battling for a mid-table finish.
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why oh why. Crap 20 minutes, sh*t. We've got some really good players but a poor team. 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'
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so frustrating. they completely fell to pieces for 15 minutes. they were like a rabbit in the headlights.
clark and petrov offered no protection to the back 4 all game, and looked so slow and ponderous against their quick feet.
didn't really have much of a shape, although injuries didn't help. Hopefully we'll have some width available on Weds or we're really going to struggle to create chances (Albrighton, gabby and CNZ all seem injury risks)
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Poor lines man decision may have cost us two games in a row! (THIS and Marseille)
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Great effort and hard luck lads - so much better than the surrender at man city last season - at least we gave it our best shot and have our pride back in the team.
Hard luck? There was no luck involved in us giving away 3 goals in 15 mins, it was an astounding level of ineptness and and and...
Fuck it.
i think it was actually 7mins....
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Would iy have been easier to take if we had gone in 0-0 at half time and lost 3-0?
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Great effort and hard luck lads - so much better than the surrender at man city last season - at least we gave it our best shot and have our pride back in the team.
Pride?
Yes im proud of our performance today whereas last season i was embarrassed at the whole approach to the man city cup tie .
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We got two goals through some good play and then capitualted in fifteen manic minutes. Our defence is fucking wank and Warnock, Dunne and Hutton should hang their heads in shame for their appalling play that cost us the game. We really need to rebuild our defence but no one at the club has the guts or the will to do that.
So disappointing. Frankly, we are not going to be relegated and now our one chance of achieving anything has been pissed up the wall by a brief period of madness in the second half. Season over.
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Fortunate to be 2 up at half time - basic errors allowed them back in and then we were totally devoid of ideas. Predictable.
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Fucking shit.
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You just knew at half time they would throw it away they always do. I'm past caring anymore.
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How.. how?
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I felt elated at 1700 and deflated at 1720. Life as a Villa fan summed up in 20 minutes.
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In retrospect I should have waited until full time before sending gloating text messages to the arse fans I know.
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Clark showed what he is today a centre half playing out of position
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Stunned, shell-shocked, appalled.
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A team with Bent , Keane , Ireland and Gabby is always going to get you goals and they should.
The problem is the team also has Dunne, Warnock , Hutton and ( Collins )
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Well done snatching defeat from the Jaws of victory, a number of players need to have a good luck in the mirror tonight.
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Great first half, absolutely shit second half. No excuses for that second half it was wank.
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How much you recon the ref was offered @ half time to let arsenal win?
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Dunney was really good until the first penalty...should've walked for that really.
I loe Carlos but he was very poor today, constantly getting sucked in and letting people run past him.
Both full backs are dreadful against any sort of pace.
Not helped by us getting overrun in midfield at that stage, in hindsight McLeish should've taken off Keane at 1-2 as he did very little today.
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At least Dunne stayed on the pitch, so we can watch him fuck about on Wednesday.
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fucking shit and disappointing Villa
You are a bunch of wankers
fuck off..so disappointng
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How much you recon the ref was offered @ half time to let arsenal win?
£0.
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There is no pride from that at all, I am sick and tired of this team and particularly the defence.
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Ares lifted the tempo we panicked, a total lack of spirit awarensss bottle profesionalism
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Got up at 0445 to watch it. Now I'm going to work. Vile.
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Cue everyone banging on about how good Arsenal are even though we gifted them two penalties and one of the luckiest goals you'll see all season. Worst Arsenal side I've seen. Van Persie motm?! Ridiculous
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I guess I'm just numb to now. Nothing that the current AVFC can do surprises me.
My concern now is how we react to this capitulation. I can see it being the "excuse" for a long succession of games without a win.
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There is alot right with us atm but so much wrong. why oh why is cuellar looking like going yet dunne and collins stay? how many basic mistakes will dunne make? Warnock improved but again was error strewn for the majority of the first 30mins. Could anyone get anymore out of this defence?i think probably not...
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How much you recon the ref was offered @ half time to let arsenal win?
Not much considering both penalties were nailed on and Dunne was highly lucky not to be sent off.
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And I have to face my French arrogant Arsenal supporting brother in law and my nephew.
Oh Villa. Why do you do this to me .
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We were up against it pretty much all game - even though we went in 2 up at half time. It's bad enough trying to get the ball off Arsenal but when we did we very sportingly gave it back to them by hoofing it out of defence - especially in the first half. Can't argue with the penalty decisions - both stonewall. Persil could have been sent off for an elbow on Carlos, but Dunne was lucky to stay on too - he should have had a second yellow. Once they got their first didn't we just know we'd throw it away.
It's the hope that kills you - feel completely deflated now
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We got two goals through some good play and then capitualted in fifteen manic minutes. Our defence is fucking wank and Warnock, Dunne and Hutton should hang their heads in shame for their appalling play that cost us the game. We really need to rebuild our defence but no one at the club has the guts or the will to do that.
So disappointing. Frankly, we are not going to be relegated and now our one chance of achieving anything has been pissed up the wall by a brief period of madness in the second half. Season over.
This... didn't see us losing at half-time but shouldn't really be surprised.
Dunne should have been booked for the penalty and hence sent off, so it could have been worse!
Really disappointing to end up losing a game through Villa's ineptitude and stupidity!
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I though it might have been our day when Ireland cleared off the line but we dont learn , we carry on giving possession away and defend like donkeys.
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Arsenal learnt a lesson from the game at our place and we were a poor shadow of that team. Never got Ireland on the ball enough, when we did he looked class. Petrov and Clark both poor and Hutton........very poor. Offers nothing at the back or in attack.
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The most frustrating thing is that Arsenal had to do nothing to get in front.
All 3 goals were comedic defending of the highest proportion. Although none surprised me tbh.
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I think that we were knackered at half time, 2 0 up but had to chase all the time, a basic lack of tecnique to keep the ball
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Oh well. I'd rather lose to Arsenal than a team managed by O'Neill.
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There is alot right with us atm but so much wrong. why oh why is cuellar looking like going yet dunne and collins stay? how many basic mistakes will dunne make? Warnock improved but again was error strewn for the majority of the first 30mins. Could anyone get anymore out of this defence?i think probably not...
MON?
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Decent first half, we just don't have the steel to hold out against that kind of pressure, minute they got the first I knew that was it.
Pointless looking at players that id or didn't hack it, Wenger got them in at half time and sorted them out, that's why he's been running one of the top sides in the country for yonks.
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Predictable and frustrating. Not once was the ball cleared and held up up top to relieve the pressure. 2 effectively in midfield against Arsenal? FFS.
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The Manager had the right idea today. The players just let him down with some shocking decisions.
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people may get into hutton as well for the goal but watching it back with a clearer head, its warnock that again gets fingered by walcott. hutton is an easy target but they didnt have much joy down out right, oxlade didnt have too much joy against him
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Even at 2-0 .you knew it
This.
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There is alot right with us atm but so much wrong. why oh why is cuellar looking like going yet dunne and collins stay? how many basic mistakes will dunne make? Warnock improved but again was error strewn for the majority of the first 30mins. Could anyone get anymore out of this defence?i think probably not...
MON?
OK, fair point but this is MONs defence. he signed them and i dont think they have responded to anyone since MON left.....
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Well at least we gave it a go, unlike last year. I'm encouraged, we look good going forward, midfield looks ok and the goalie is good.
Dunne makes catestrophic errors and always will do and needs replacing as does Collins. You would think AM knows this and will replace when he can. Why he doesn't pick Carlos enough is strange though.
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The Manager had the right idea today. The players just let him down with some shocking decisions.
Did he? Playing Warnock, buying and playing Hutton. 2 in midfield, Gabby on the wing. Continuing with Dunne,Collins and Cuellar who's mind is elsewhere. I would have took Bent off at half time as well playing Gabby up top and adding an extra defensive player.
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people may get into hutton as well for the goal but watching it back with a clearer head, its warnock that again gets fingered by walcott. hutton is an easy target but they didnt have much joy down out right, oxlade didnt have too much joy against him
Apart from the two pens. The first at least was Hutton losing out to the ball very easily which then allowed them alot of space to run through and get the first.
I never thought I would see a Villa player who would be out passed by Cueller but then I haven't really watched Hutton alot.
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The Manager had the right idea today. The players just let him down with some shocking decisions.
Did he? Playing Warnock, buying and playing Hutton. 2 in midfield, Gabby on the wing. Continuing with Dunne,Collins and Cuellar who's mind is elsewhere. I would have took Bent off at half time as well playing Gabby up top and adding an extra defensive player.
Ok, so where are the 4 replacement defenders coming from?
Do you propose that we should have played the youth team against Arsenal at the Emirates?
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wow. keown really is an arsenal man isnt he? doesnt seem to have much affection for the villa at all. he doesnt want to talkabout us at all...
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people may get into hutton as well for the goal but watching it back with a clearer head, its warnock that again gets fingered by walcott. hutton is an easy target but they didnt have much joy down out right, oxlade didnt have too much joy against him
So when did Warnock get fingered by Walcott?
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people may get into hutton as well for the goal but watching it back with a clearer head, its warnock that again gets fingered by walcott. hutton is an easy target but they didnt have much joy down out right, oxlade didnt have too much joy against him
So when did Warnock get fingered by Walcott?
And is it on youtube?
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Predictable. Nothing to get excited about, move along nothing to see here.
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When you think of the fine squads who've tried to win this cup for Villa over the past 55 years and not managed it, this bunch of collective turd weren't going to be the ones to go down in history. I honestly couldn't give a shit about this team any more.
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people may get into hutton as well for the goal but watching it back with a clearer head, its warnock that again gets fingered by walcott. hutton is an easy target but they didnt have much joy down out right, oxlade didnt have too much joy against him
So when did Warnock get fingered by Walcott?
And is it on youtube?
lol, very good. but it was warnock who missed the tackle when walcott broke into the box
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All we had to do was hold out for 10-15 of that second half and the game was ours. The fans had already turned on Arse, half of them seemed to not bother going to their seats until they scored.
2 up, half time, away form home in the cup, home fans turning on a side low on confidence common sense to me was to take either Keane or Gabby off at HT and stick a midfielder in there and fill up the midfield. Do you really need 4 attacking players on the pitch in such circumstances?
Arse biscuits, i'm well and truly fucked off with Villa right now.
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Even at 2-0 .you knew it
This.
My brother said the same. I defended us saying we can sit back and defend and then Arse will leave space at the back for us to counter attack like the second goal and like against Chelsea. Instead we suddenly decided to try to attack them and the full backs and "defensive" mids were trying to get into their half.
But as soon as they got the first you knew the confidence would go from our lads. Just not that fast.
One question though, Ireland through into the box, no defenders near him, so why did he try to play in Bent who had three defenders on him?
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McCleish claims the second goal came off Walcott hands replays suggest it did but the ref would never give it.
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The Manager had the right idea today. The players just let him down with some shocking decisions.
Did he? Playing Warnock, buying and playing Hutton. 2 in midfield, Gabby on the wing. Continuing with Dunne,Collins and Cuellar who's mind is elsewhere. I would have took Bent off at half time as well playing Gabby up top and adding an extra defensive player.
Ok, so where are the 4 replacement defenders coming from?
Do you propose that we should have played the youth team against Arsenal at the Emirates?
Clarke needs time at centre half. So needs to be played now. To often Dunne,Collins keep playing. Warnock and Hutton need to be shot. I would now start to play the youth players, why not.
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Our problem is that we are pretty much incapable of playing a match which does not include a spell - usually of thirty minutes or more - in which we are utterly, utterly terrible.
Sometimes it is the first half (Wolves), other times it is the second half (today), and at times it is the entire match (Liverpool, Spurs), but that spell is pretty much always there.
Outside these awful spells, we sometimes play some decent stuff, but that's never, ever going to be enough when you can put together a spell of such ineptitude, it just undoes all the hard work you do at other points, and you're always up against it at some point.
What scares me is that we cant do anything to get new faces in to freshen up this cack defence - there's no money, so we're stuck with them.
In fact, with the club being set up for mediocrity, which is the inevitable consequence of being self-sustaining (which has become the club's buzz phrase just as convincingly as Proud History, Bright Future did), we're going to have to get used to a decent spell of just making up the numbers at the very best, and flirting with relegation at the worst.
There's a lot wrong with the club at the moment. Days like today when you get a bit of false hope are really just distractions from the general trend of the way things are going.
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I knew we'd fuck it up, but didn't think we'd be quite so poor as we were. The defence all has to go. Clark was also very very poor today and didn't do anything. I'm fed up with all this.
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on a positive note our fans sounded brilliant today.
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Oh well, look on the bright side, work tomorrow.
*goes headfirst off bridge*
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As soon as Randy paid for the coaches i had a bad feeling
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It was obvious they were going to hit us with everything in the second half and for 15 minutes they played extremely well but the goals were all avoidable. If you give away 2 penalties, although I thought the second was harsh, then you're unlikely to get anything at Arsenal.
That said, we shouldn't forget how well we did in the first half. The talk was a few months ago that we didn't mind losing to the top sides as long as we had a go and we certainly did that. Perhaps our expectations have changed since then.
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On another positive note, we do look like we have more goals in us than a couple of months ago
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Once they got their first it really showed how slow and light our midfield is. Clark is young and is allowed a poor perfromance,Petrov's better days are way behind him,Ireland is showing his class going forward,but won't really put a foot in,he and Keane can't play in the same side as we become too light weight. The fullbacks were fully exposed against two of the quickest players in the league.
The sad things is,as others have said if we got through the first 15 mins,i think we'd have been ok.
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What the hell were ESPN doing with the sound - Anyone else notice?
All I could hear through my surround speakers was some posh Arsenal twat pretending to be 'one of the boys', and on the odd occasion some French guys would start having a conversation in the other speaker. Sounded like they'd placed the mics under their seats?!
Made watching the game even more infuriating.... Thought the ref was fair though - Any other match and Dunne would have walked. Common sense prevails for once!
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Our problem is that we are pretty much incapable of playing a match which does not include a spell - usually of thirty minutes or more - in which we are utterly, utterly terrible.
Sometimes it is the first half (Wolves), other times it is the second half (today), and at times it is the entire match (Liverpool, Spurs), but that spell is pretty much always there.
Outside these awful spells, we sometimes play some decent stuff, but that's never, ever going to be enough when you can put together a spell of such ineptitude, it just undoes all the hard work you do at other points, and you're always up against it at some point.
What scares me is that we cant do anything to get new faces in to freshen up this cack defence - there's no money, so we're stuck with them.
In fact, with the club being set up for mediocrity, which is the inevitable consequence of being self-sustaining (which has become the club's buzz phrase just as convincingly as Proud History, Bright Future did), we're going to have to get used to a decent spell of just making up the numbers at the very best, and flirting with relegation at the worst.
There's a lot wrong with the club at the moment. Days like today when you get a bit of false hope are really just distractions from the general trend of the way things are going.
Yep pretty much bang on Paulie, we are going absolutely nowhere without a change in philosophy at the club and I can't see it happening. We have talented players in our squad but they fight for scraps, like Ireland barely seeing the ball. We are dragged down by the sheer inability of the poor players. It was an insipid second half display and we were pretty fortunate in the first.
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Today's action (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/arsenal-3-aston-villa-2/)
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Having a go for 30 minutes in the first half isn't good enough. Admittedly it's better than Manure, Spurs, Racist FC where we had a go for 0 minutes but still not good enough.
And Arsenal started the second half in the same way they started the second, only in the second half we stayed in the dressing room until the 3rd had gone in.
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What the hell were ESPN doing with the sound - Anyone else notice?
All I could hear through my surround speakers was some posh Arsenal twat pretending to be 'one of the boys', and on the odd occasion some French guys would start having a conversation in the other speaker. Sounded like they'd placed the mics under their seats?!
I wondered what the fuck that was, too.
For a while I assumed it was some people stood outside our house, chatting. Then I remembered how few of those French types we get around these parts.
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And how do Arsenal keep managing to announce near capacity attendances when nearly every game there are thousands of empty seats?
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And how do Arsenal keep managing to announce near capacity attendances when nearly every game there are thousands of empty seats?
Their season tickets include cup games, I believe.
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The worst feeling in the world for me has always been waking up to a radio news bulletin on a Monday morning, which tells me Villa got beat in the Sunday game. And then I remember I have a week of work about to start.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was raining biblically too tomorrow.
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Shaun Teale's opinion of McLeish on fb... he doesn't hold back!
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Our problem is that we are pretty much incapable of playing a match which does not include a spell - usually of thirty minutes or more - in which we are utterly, utterly terrible.
Sometimes it is the first half (Wolves), other times it is the second half (today), and at times it is the entire match (Liverpool, Spurs), but that spell is pretty much always there.
Outside these awful spells, we sometimes play some decent stuff, but that's never, ever going to be enough when you can put together a spell of such ineptitude, it just undoes all the hard work you do at other points, and you're always up against it at some point.
What scares me is that we cant do anything to get new faces in to freshen up this cack defence - there's no money, so we're stuck with them.
In fact, with the club being set up for mediocrity, which is the inevitable consequence of being self-sustaining (which has become the club's buzz phrase just as convincingly as Proud History, Bright Future did), we're going to have to get used to a decent spell of just making up the numbers at the very best, and flirting with relegation at the worst.
There's a lot wrong with the club at the moment. Days like today when you get a bit of false hope are really just distractions from the general trend of the way things are going.
Exactly, the club is all over the place, it seems that we have this mind set "plucky Villa" we gave all the nuetrals a bit of entertainment today, and then found our rightfull place as second best to a "top team" i like many others are just fed up with it.
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Just listened to mcliesh what fucking planet does he live on he thinks second goal hand ball and third goal not a pen he talked about chances to equalise should he noT at 2-0 be looking to stop them playing while looking for 3rd goal, he's fucking deluded Scottish ******
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And how do Arsenal keep managing to announce near capacity attendances when nearly every game there are thousands of empty seats?
Their season tickets include cup games, I believe.
Thing is it's league games as well. I can't believe they have 1000s of ST holders who miss most league games as the empty seats are always in the same areas. Something is afoot at the New Library!
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What does he say? The current approach at the club is an insult to the history of Aston Villa, there is pretty much no light at the end of the tunnel.
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Shaun Teale's opinion of McLeish on fb... he doesn't hold back!
pray tell more to us non Twitterers (did I just invent a word?)
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See my previous post.
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Shaun Teale's opinion of McLeish on fb... he doesn't hold back!
pray tell more to us non Twitterers (did I just invent a word?)
Legion just quoted it
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Also:
Well I'd like to know how mcleish can not see that the week link is the full backs, they both dive in and spend to much time on there arses which I have to say are large for a pro footballer unfit and untalented it's time to change ASAP
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Aha, thx Leeg, I was wondering who that quote was about.
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Just listened to mcliesh what fucking planet does he live on he thinks second goal hand ball and third goal not a pen he talked about chances to equalise should he noT at 2-0 be looking to stop them playing while looking for 3rd goal, he's fucking deluded Scottish c***
The facts are that it was hand ball by Walcott and Clark missed a very easy headed chance that would have made it 3 - 3
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Just listened to mcliesh what fucking planet does he live on he thinks second goal hand ball and third goal not a pen he talked about chances to equalise should he noT at 2-0 be looking to stop them playing while looking for 3rd goal, he's fucking deluded Scottish c***
Yep a smart manager would have set the team up for the oncoming onslaught, a smart manager would have done something at half time, he didnt, we lost
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There We Are Than Eck. Use the fist letters for your title Mr McLeish. It's going to be a long journey back.
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The second goal wasn't a hand ball and the third was a penalty.
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Just listened to mcliesh what fucking planet does he live on he thinks second goal hand ball and third goal not a pen he talked about chances to equalise should he noT at 2-0 be looking to stop them playing while looking for 3rd goal, he's fucking deluded Scottish c***
Yep a smart manager would have set the team up for the oncoming onslaught, a smart manager would have done something at half time, he didnt, we lost
As I said earlier, i'd have taken Keane or Gabby off at HT and stuck another proper midfielder in there to keep things tight. We didn't need an attacking 4 when 2 up away from home.
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I'm really not sure what he could have done at H/T to change what happened.
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Change of manager for me. Sooner, rather than later, so we've got maximum time to prepare for the Summer.
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Can't believe nobody tackled Walcott.
That is all.
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Just listened to mcliesh what fucking planet does he live on he thinks second goal hand ball and third goal not a pen he talked about chances to equalise should he noT at 2-0 be looking to stop them playing while looking for 3rd goal, he's fucking deluded Scottish c***
Yep a smart manager would have set the team up for the oncoming onslaught, a smart manager would have done something at half time, he didnt, we lost
As I said earlier, i'd have taken Keane or Gabby off at HT and stuck another proper midfielder in there to keep things tight. We didn't need an attacking 4 when 2 up away from home.
Is this the first time anyone has been disappointed AM didn't go more defensive???
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Just listened to mcliesh what fucking planet does he live on he thinks second goal hand ball and third goal not a pen he talked about chances to equalise should he noT at 2-0 be looking to stop them playing while looking for 3rd goal, he's fucking deluded Scottish c***
Yep a smart manager would have set the team up for the oncoming onslaught, a smart manager would have done something at half time, he didnt, we lost
As I said earlier, i'd have taken Keane or Gabby off at HT and stuck another proper midfielder in there to keep things tight. We didn't need an attacking 4 when 2 up away from home.
I was wondering at HT if he would be brave enough to change it, they booed arse off at HT, that would have said, keep them out for 15 mins and the game is ours,
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Change of manager for me. Sooner, rather than later, so we've got maximum time to prepare for the Summer.
It's not just the manager, it's the entire philosophy and approach of the club. Unless that changes we are stuffed.
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Was seriously irritated by ESPN's coverage today.
Continual shots of various Arsenal banners around the ground.
A Villa chance in the first half was a "scare" for Arsenal. The whole thing felt so pro-Arse.
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They should win. It's the natural order and ESPN were over the moon about it, they're shitting it about viewing figures.
Even at 2-0 up we weren't good enough. The manager isn't good enough and neither are the players. We all know it, we just have hope. And my god did I have hope at HT.
I won't criticise the effort,but the quality is sorely lacking.
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Villa must be the only team that score a goal in first half injury time and it kills them off rather than the opposition.
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Villa must be the only team that score a goal in first half injury time and it kills them off rather than the opposition.
I thought that. Really does show the current mentallity of our current players.
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A bonus two goal lead against an average Arsenal team with 45 minutes to defend. Did he not think to change it at half-time and bore the pants of them?
Take any one of Bent, Gabby, Keane or Ireland off and stiffen up the midfield.
Hindsight...
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Maybe the booing at HT made them have flashbacks to a Villa Park match so they played like they were there in the second half.
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Villa must be the only team that score a goal in first half injury time and it kills them off rather than the opposition.
I watched the game in the Strathallan and there was an Albion fan in there with his Villa supporting better half. Fair play he wanted us to win and cheered our goals with her, partly as he seemed to hate cockneys. However at HT he said well that's game over and I thought, you really don't know the Villa way do you.
Even at 2-0 I was shitting myself at the thought of them getting an earlyish goal in the second half and wasn't confident of us winning.
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Lets face it, we are not good enough to have any chance of winnning anything, We cant defend, Today showed the best and worst of Bent, fantastic finisher but a passenger for the rest of the game. Nothing from the manager to capitalise on a 2 goal lead. Its just about avoiding relegation now
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Ive said it before and I'll say it again but this defence will get us relegated of not this season then next. Hutton in particular was to blame for the first two goals and it defies reasoning as to how he has plied a trade in the Premier League.
We should be in no doubt that this was an abject capitulation against a comparatively shit Arsenal side.
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Bent's head did seem to drop more than others too.
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Why can't people accept that sometimes the oppostion have a good spell which is hard to defend. We were shite for a good 10mins at the back, but it was alot of pressure. I still think we are moving in the right direction, Ireland, Bent and Keane in flashes were good. Its not all bad, we do need a new defence tho!
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How unexpected. In 45 years of watching Villa I'd never seen us do anything like that, especially in the cup. I mean honestly who'd have thunk it?
Totally self inflicted with two mental challenges (Dunne's challenge was so late it was in another time zone) and a comical clearance attempt from Hutton, following a classic Warnock lunge. Commit suicidal challenges and errors in and around your own box and there will only be one outcome. We have a defence with less intelligence than plankton. If Dunne, Hutton and Warnock were up against a row of cabbages on univesrity challenge, which set of vegetables would your money be on?
Shame because we actually looked half decent going forward, and our second goal was a peach of a move. Oh well if I live to be 100 maybe I'll see us win the cup.
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A bonus two goal lead against an average Arsenal team with 45 minutes to defend. Did he not think to change it at half-time and bore the pants of them?
Take any one of Bent, Gabby, Keane or Ireland off and stiffen up the midfield.
Hindsight...
It's not about 'stiffening the midfield up' - It's about passing the fucking ball to each other as opposed to the fucking speculative HOOF and FOCUS.
Warnock and Hutton were dreadful today ( again).
15th Place ( I hope).
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Ive said it before and I'll say it again but this defence will get us relegated of not this season then next. Hutton in particular was to blame for the first two goals and it defies reasoning as to how he has plied a trade in the Premier League.
We should be in no doubt that this was an abject capitulation against a comparatively shit Arsenal side.
Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Hutton to start Wednesday. Oh and the transfer window will have closed so these 4 will be getting another half a season.
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Why can't people accept that sometimes the oppostion have a good spell which is hard to defend.
If Arsenal had played superb football and beaten us with 3 quality goals that would have unlocked any defence in the league,. I suspect that few people would complain.
But they didn't. We gave them the win.
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Composure, composure, composure. If you keep giving the ball back to the opposition, more often than not, you will lose.
If you don't give the player in possession an option and move off the ball, he will more often than not, give it away.
We are painful to watch most of the time.
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Ive said it before and I'll say it again but this defence will get us relegated of not this season then next. Hutton in particular was to blame for the first two goals and it defies reasoning as to how he has plied a trade in the Premier League.
We should be in no doubt that this was an abject capitulation against a comparatively shit Arsenal side.
Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Hutton to start Wednesday. Oh and the transfer window will have closed so these 4 will be getting another half a season.
It'll be longer than that, and Cuellar was dreadful today as well.
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I see Warnock is winning the competion to refill Gaz Barrys shorts, his arse seem to be bigger each game
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Bent's head did seem to drop more than others too.
He also showed why he will never be a world class striker, ducking out of goal chances.
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Just like PWS i did'nt feel at all confident we would win even at 2-0. I said to my missus 2-0 is a dangerous score for us,you saw what happened at Bristol in the last few minutes.If Arsenal get one they will get 3 or 4.You just know one of Dunne,Hutton Warnock or Collins when playing are likely to balls it up. For example thats 2 pens and a awful back pass from Dunne in 3 out of the last 4 away games but will he be left out.No chance. Still looking on the bright side at least the Quitter wont get the chance to knock us out.
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Also:
Well I'd like to know how mcleish can not see that the week link is the full backs, they both dive in and spend to much time on there arses which I have to say are large for a pro footballer unfit and untalented it's time to change ASAP
Is ST still in the game, we could do with someone to sort the defence out
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Why can't people accept that sometimes the oppostion have a good spell which is hard to defend.
If Arsenal had played superb football and beaten us with 3 quality goals that would have unlocked any defence in the league,. I suspect that few people would complain.
But they didn't. We gave them the win.
Is the correct answer. Arsenal started the second half exactly as they started the first. The difference was we stayed in the dressing room until the third had gone in.
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who is ST? Soft Tart?
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Shaun Teale.
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who is ST? Soft Tart?
You couldn't be more wrong.
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You referred to Shaun Teale, Man of Steel as a soft tart!?
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I know I was being ironic. Thats the name of the current defensive coach.
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I'd love to see someone go up to Shaun Teale and say that to his face. I'll bring a shovel so as I can help them into the ambulance.
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I know I was being ironic. Thats the name of the current defensive coach.
I have no idea who our backroom staff are. <ashamed>
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I dont think any one was confident at 2-0 at HT, we should hae been though.
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Trust me Lee he is called Soft Tart you have to believe me. ;~)
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Bent's head did seem to drop more than others too.
He also showed why he will never be a world class striker, ducking out of goal chances.
His ONLY positive contribution all game was his goal. He held nothing up joined in nothing won nothing and most of the time did nothing. I think I prefer Warnock. At least he looks guilty when he does someting poor.
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That bottled header was embarrassing. Reminded me of Downing last season.
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Just listened to mcliesh what fucking planet does he live on he thinks second goal hand ball and third goal not a pen he talked about chances to equalise should he noT at 2-0 be looking to stop them playing while looking for 3rd goal, he's fucking deluded Scottish c***
Feck sake! He sure doesn't hold back...
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Just listened to mcliesh what fucking planet does he live on he thinks second goal hand ball and third goal not a pen he talked about chances to equalise should he noT at 2-0 be looking to stop them playing while looking for 3rd goal, he's fucking deluded Scottish c***
Feck sake! He sure doesn't hold back...
Just like when he was playing.
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Also:
Well I'd like to know how mcleish can not see that the week link is the full backs, they both dive in and spend to much time on there arses which I have to say are large for a pro footballer unfit and untalented it's time to change ASAP
Is ST still in the game, we could do with someone to sort the defence out
Well he sure won't get a job in the commentary box
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When will the penny drop with AM? Our full backs, both of them just aren't good enough. They cost us game after game.
I just feel so deflated, sick to my stomach. I don't think I would feel as bad if we lost 3 - 0.
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I've been sitting here for 10 minutes thinking of something to say which hasn'tbeen summed up in previous posts.
How can we throw away a 2 goal lead?? Is it the manager, the players or both? I suspect the latter - a manage who can't motivate and players who can't be bothered??
Depressing!
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When will the penny drop with AM? Our full backs, both of them just aren't good enough. They cost us game after game.
I just feel so deflated, sick to my stomach. I don't think I would feel as bad if we lost 3 - 0.
Also:
Well I'd like to know how mcleish can not see that the week link is the full backs, they both dive in and spend to much time on there arses which I have to say are large for a pro footballer unfit and untalented it's time to change ASAP
Is ST still in the game, we could do with someone to sort the defence out
Well he sure won't get a job in the commentary box
There might be a clue in there somewhere.........................................
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If we could keep it tight we'd have the makings of a good side.
However we're a million fucking miles from 'if' as it stands.
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I've been sitting here for 10 minutes thinking of something to say which hasn'tbeen summed up in previous posts.
How can we throw away a 2 goal lead?? Is it the manager, the players or both? I suspect the latter - a manage who can't motivate and players who can't be bothered??
Depressing!
i think we are all bewildered, i put it down to cowardice, and a lack of leadership on and off the field, we were let down today
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Im not too despondent. Some good attacking play in first half but two nil flattered us ht. we all know our defence is a disaster and second half was a joke from them all. worst thing is that were stuck with them at least until the end of the season. thought keane and Ireland were good and banan and Gardner looked well.up for it when they came on
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Im not too despondent. Some good attacking play in first half but two nil flattered us ht. we all know our defence is a disaster and second half was a joke from them all. worst thing is that were stuck with them at least until the end of the season. thought keane and Ireland were good and banan and Gardner looked well.up for it when they came on
Pretty much sums it up for me too.
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Season over in January again.
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The 5th May can't come quick enough! Hopefully RL will see sense and get rid of the Big Eck? No matter how it's dressed up we should have won today. He keeps picking the same defence week in week out. Houllier had them rumbled and they did not like it! For a so called centre half big Eck ain't half being lenient with them. Maybe Collins and Dunne are running the club with the big Eck running scared of them?
RL is going to find it difficult to entice paying punters next season!!!!!!!
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I'm really not sure what he could have done at H/T to change what happened.
You can't say that. It's not fashionable.
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...but two nil flattered us ht.
Of course it did, but having found ourself in that position we should have capitalised. Instead we capitulated.
And to think at half time I was mentally planning a weekend up in the North East, where I've got some friends I'd really like to see again. When or when will I ever learn?
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I'm already counting down the days until Hutton's contract expires (as no fucker will buy him off us). One of the worst players I've ever seen. Genuinely.
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The 5th May can't come quick enough! Hopefully RL will see sense and get rid of the Big Eck? No matter how it's dressed up we should have won today. He keeps picking the same defence week in week out.
No he doesn't.
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What defence would you play? they are shite but there ain't much of an alternative and no one is going to take them off our hands. he's made a boob with Hutton that's for sure but I'll give him the summer to try and sort it
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Did'nt see the game,saw we was 2-0 up at H/t, the next timei looked we was 3-2 down.
Well where do we go from here?Personally i think the manager has been left in the lurch.We sold 2 players in the summer, and bought 3 players for about £15m, we need that £25m now.
At least 1 F/B if not 2, at least one new C/H, and at least 1 C/M.Give McL the opportunity to fail, let him spend some money, and then judge him.
Another stupid decision from Dunne, Ramsey going nowhere, Dunne brings him down.No protection for a poor defence, no pace in Central midfield, not enough "stickability" up front.
Personally if we have no money. i would sell Bent and start again.
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It needed us to go at them but we didn't or couldn't. That game was never in the bag at 2-0 and you would be fools for thinking it was.
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The problem with our defence is that there are a lack of options. They are all in a comfort zone. Aside from Cuellar the only options we have are moving Clark away from where he's needed in midfield or playing a number of untried youngsters.
In an ideal world we'd have fucked some of them off in the summer or now in January but we don't have the money and clubs won't be knocking our door down to take them off our hands. We'd also have to hope we didn't sign more players like Hutton who is starting to look like a mistake.
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It needed us to go at them but we didn't or couldn't. That game was never in the bag at 2-0 and you would be fools for thinking it was.
It needed us to hold them for at least 15 minutes, we could not even manage that
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I hate this season.
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Hutton is useless, terrrible one of 2 AM buys
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I think if we'd held them ten minutes then we'd have won.
Disrupt play, slow it down, stop hoofing it, keep the ball, make a substitution, anything to slow down Arsenals predictable onslaught... the fans would have been on their back and that would have probably been it!
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If we're all honest we all
Saw that happening at half time! The problem is how can we all are it a
AM didn't/doesn't!? All we had to do was hold out for
15mins and the game would have been ours. Granted we have the worst fullbacks
In my living memory of following Villa (89) but the manager
Should not be playing these fools!!
Our season is over in Januray again, I feel even more let down
Cause as we all know we have faith and today u just thought 'maybe'
Arsenal were the worst arsenal in a long long time! We certainly missed the boat today!
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Hutton is useless, terrrible one of 2 AM buys
Thats where we could put an untried youngster and not miss anything. Awful signing.
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It needed us to go at them but we didn't or couldn't. That game was never in the bag at 2-0 and you would be fools for thinking it was.
With our defence, no game is in the bag. But if we hadn't given Arse the space around the box in the first 10-15 mins of the second half, we could have got something from this. When they had taken the lead they just played possession football and sat back a bit because they knew we didn't have the players to hurt them apart from on the break.
But we did create a couple of chances after that we didn't finish. Keanes airshot, Ireland bottling the responsibility and passing to a double marked Bent, Clark / Gardner tame effort at the keeper.
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It needed us to go at them but we didn't or couldn't. That game was never in the bag at 2-0 and you would be fools for thinking it was.
Did anyone think it was in the bag? Is anyone suprised we collapsed?
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I've been sitting here for 10 minutes thinking of something to say which hasn'tbeen summed up in previous posts.
How can we throw away a 2 goal lead?? Is it the manager, the players or both? I suspect the latter - a manage who can't motivate and players who can't be bothered??
Depressing!
It's a club disease.
We gave a 3 goal lead away under MON once remember.
We also have given 2 goal leads away under Houllier, Little, O'dreary and Gregory.
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The game was exciting and we played with great desire, but if you have 2 clowns in the team you can't have any ambition.
Arsenal had three goals gifted: one by Dunne, one by the referee and one by Hutton. But it was the Dunne's silly foul that decided the game, as usual.
You don't need to be Leonardo da Vinci to realize that at the end of the 1st half they were overwhelmed by whistles of their own fans, and to comprehend that if we had resisted for 20 minutes they would give up. There was only one thing to avoid, to concede an easy gol, and Clownne did it, as usual. I only wonder if his huge wages are paid by AVFC or AFC. .
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For the record I would not have changed anything at half time as I was one of the few that thought we were very capable of nicking a 3rd on the break which would have ended it. should have known better with the four weather girls at the back.
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Hutton is useless, terrrible one of 2 AM buys
Thats where we could put an untried youngster and not miss anything. Awful signing.
As I mentioned, a player in a Villa shirt who was being out passed by Cueller. Virtually every-time he had the ball he lost it.
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the Bent bottled header was embarrassing and made me think of a packed holte end celebrating Andy Grays many brave headed goals.
He would have put the ball and the keeper in the back of the net on that cross today. we need some fckn passion.
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It needed us to go at them but we didn't or couldn't. That game was never in the bag at 2-0 and you would be fools for thinking it was.
Did anyone think it was in the bag? Is anyone suprised we collapsed?
No and No.
Every time we take a lead I fully expect up to throw it away. It comes with many years of being a Villa fan.
If we hold on to a lead it's a bonus.
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You'd think we'd just lost to Walsall judging by the tone of this thread. Arsenal played very well in the second half, they're a good side full of good good players with the best striker in the league playing for them. Yes, we made mistakes with the goals but we're a club in the process of downsizing and they're in the knockout stages of the Champions League. That's not to make excuses for how we conceded but to put some perspective into events, they're better than we are so we need for them to have an off day or us to have all the luck going.
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I think Bent is the last of our problems. Especially as he is scoring goals regularly - 4 in 5 is it?
Hutton and Warnock would be shot if they were horses. They are so fucking turgid it is scary, and Dunney love him as we do, cannot cope with fast passing and movement.
Think Houllier said and was totally derided for saying that the defense could not be sorted till the summer. We are seeing, with a bloke who got Ridgewell and Carr looking infinitely better full backs than these two, that the whole back 4 needs a blank canvas. I for one would be happy to see Ridgewell at left back for a couple of million, with Cuellar at right till may, at least we would defend!
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I'm really not sure what he could have done at H/T to change what happened.
He should have recognised at ht that we were lucky to have a 2 goal lead and a change was required. A good tactical coach would have capitalised on the unexpected position by making changes either tactics or players to deal effectively with expected arsenal onslaught.
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I had the gross misfortune to only be able to pick up the BBC 5Live commentary.
Even at half time there was no credit given to Villa - purely the Arsenal malaise show, so I think even they knew something was about to happen. Pretty predictable, sadly.
Would the fact that Arsenal come out in the 2nd half all guns blazing have crossed Eck's mind in his half time talk?
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You'd think we'd just lost to Walsall judging by the tone of this thread. Arsenal played very well in the second half, they're a good side full of good good players with the best striker in the league playing for them. Yes, we made mistakes with the goals but we're a club in the process of downsizing and they're in the knockout stages of the Champions League. That's not to make excuses for how we conceded but to put some perspective into events, they're better than we are so we need for them to have an off day or us to have all the luck going.
Twice we have played well in most parts against Arse and 5 times we have gifted them goals. They might have Van Persie but if all he has to do is score a penalty against us to win a match there is something seriously wrong somewhere.
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Only way things are gonna get better long term irregardless of the manager, is if we get rid of the flids in defence. GH knew it and even AM must be starting to realise it. Just got to hope Lerner does as well or we've got this sort of thing to look forward to till their contracts run out.
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I know I'm coming in to this discussion late on, and I haven't watched the game yet, but from the match thread and reports I've got a decent idea what went on. Seemingly we went in at HT a little lucky to be 2-0 up. But nonetheless we were 2-0 up. The manager, I would assume, having played the game and having managed for long enough would have have warned them of the oncoming onslaught, at least for the first 15 minutes of the second half. He wouldn't have told them to retreat into their shells and play like utter mindless idiots. He didn't make any changes, and had he done so and we'd lost he'd be getting slaughtered.
Our boys go out, confident one would think and instead of playing football like experienced top level pros should, decide to capitulate for all the world to see. Now, I get why the manager is taking pelters. He's partly responsible for sending them out prepared. But these are proven, professional, international football players we are talking about. They should know how to defend, how to tackle, not to dive in, to follow their man. All basic, fundamental aspects of the game. McLeish is going to take heat, but reserve some for the players who made mistakes that even if we had Guardiola in charge we couldn't and shouldn't have expected.
I'm going to defend the manager to a point, and I know one of the fuck ups was by Bent, but he has to clean house at the back. If the players cannot or will not do the basic things, and are capable of indiscipline that you'd have a go a a 10 year old for, then they don't need to be a the club. Houllier was fucked off by it, McLeish with no money to spend has to be. I'll repeat. He has a lot to answer for this season, but he cannot be held totally responsible for some of the most shocking "defending" if we are to call it that at Aston Villa for many a year.
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I noticed all but one of the photographers who had their lenses trained on our goal in the first half changed ends in the second.
Like vultures they knew. They bloody knew.
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I'm really not sure what he could have done at H/T to change what happened.
He should have recognised at ht that we were lucky to have a 2 goal lead and a change was required. A good tactical coach would have capitalised on the unexpected position by making changes either tactics or players to deal effectively with expected arsenal onslaught.
Why Lucky? Two well worked goals and Bent also bottled a header. What we did in the first half (ride the first 10-15 mins of pressure) we didn't in the second. The only change needed was to bring the players in tight to keep the space limited in front of the box and hit them on the break. But instead we seemed to try to press for a third early on, hence Hutton being dispossessed on the half way line which started the attack for the killer first. (And that is for the players as well as the manager)
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You'd think we'd just lost to Walsall judging by the tone of this thread. Arsenal played very well in the second half, they're a good side full of good good players with the best striker in the league playing for them. Yes, we made mistakes with the goals but we're a club in the process of downsizing and they're in the knockout stages of the Champions League. That's not to make excuses for how we conceded but to put some perspective into events, they're better than we are so we need for them to have an off day or us to have all the luck going.
Its the FA Cup. The great domestic competition that we haven't won for yonks. Its always going to be disappointing.
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
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Bent is not remotely one of our problems. Our back four is a calamity waiting to happen in every game pretty much, the full backs are beyond words. Also Clark was poor today and Petrov is beginning to look out on his feet for most of the game again.
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
He's had no problem with leaving out N'Zogbia on occasion so I'm mot sure that's necessarily true.
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Take away two stupid tackles by two experienced players who should know better, and we should be in the next round.
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I've read some strange things on here this evening...
Someone suggested taking Bent off at HT? He's scored 4 in 5 and you want to take him off 30 seconds after putting us 2-0 up?
McLeish always plays the same back four? Cuellar at CB today, Clark at LB last week?
Also there seems a strong ground swell of opinion that McLeish should have made a change at HT. Realistically, had he done so while 2-0 up away at The Emirates and we had gone to lose 3-2 he would have got absolutely slaughtered!
Yes we fucked it up but the second goal was fortuitous to say the least and I am not entirely convinced Bent's challenge should have been a penalty.
Oh and there's the RVP elbow incident too... be interesting to see if there's any retrospective punishment.
Onwards and upwards and let's go and beat QPR on Wednesday and get this out of our system - in the meantime I'll carry on with the Stella and hope to erase this one out of the memory
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Yes we fucked it up but the second goal was fortuitous to say the least and I am not entirely convinced Bent's challenge should have been a penalty.
He took out the player before he touched the ball, so it was a pen.
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You'd think we'd just lost to Walsall judging by the tone of this thread. Arsenal played very well in the second half, they're a good side full of good good players with the best striker in the league playing for them. Yes, we made mistakes with the goals but we're a club in the process of downsizing and they're in the knockout stages of the Champions League. That's not to make excuses for how we conceded but to put some perspective into events, they're better than we are so we need for them to have an off day or us to have all the luck going.
Let's just skip all the games leading up to the final then, and play it between the top two teams in the division. Oh hang on, they've both been knocked out.
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If we could just sort out our defence we'd be a good team. I've never known a Villa team with two worse fullbacks than we've got now. Warnock and especially Hutton are truly awful.
On the plus side we scored two fine goals. Sadly though we're out of the FA Cup again.
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We also got lucky as Dunne should have been booked for his pen and sent off.
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
We don't have any other full backs, so as utterly useless as Hutton and Warnock undoubtedly are, we don't really have any alternatives. The whole club is a shambles.
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How much longer is Lichaj out for?
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11 games this season we've let in 2 or more goals, and a couple of them we won. Don't need to be a genuis to see where the problems are.
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11 games this season we've let in 2 or more goals, and a couple of them we won. Don't need to be a genuis to see where the problems are.
Not scoring enough goals. If we were getting 3 every game, job done!
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Lichaj was on the bench
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Buying a left back is a must.
Herd and Lichaz are both better, as is Cuellar than Hutton, who I hope is sold this summer as a mistake. Eck dropped Murphy at Blues for Ridgewell at left back, and has dropped NZogbia, so I don't think Hutton is immune.
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You'd think we'd just lost to Walsall judging by the tone of this thread. Arsenal played very well in the second half, they're a good side full of good good players with the best striker in the league playing for them. Yes, we made mistakes with the goals but we're a club in the process of downsizing and they're in the knockout stages of the Champions League. That's not to make excuses for how we conceded but to put some perspective into events, they're better than we are so we need for them to have an off day or us to have all the luck going.
Let's just skip all the games leading up to the final then, and play it between the top two teams in the division. Oh hang on, they've both been knocked out.
Like I said have an off day, like Manu yesterday. Second place knocking out first place hardly falls into the same category as us at Arsenal.
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11 games this season we've let in 2 or more goals, and a couple of them we won. Don't need to be a genuis to see where the problems are.
Not scoring enough goals. If we were getting 3 every game, job done!
heh. worrying thing is if the goals dry up or Bent or gabby get crocked because without them we're Birmingham last season.
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Why are the vast majority of your posts on here made when we lose?
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Take away two stupid tackles by two experienced players who should know better, and we should be in the next round.
Their other goal was quite poxy to be honest.
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Have we ever had a pair of full backs who have been so consistently shit and given away quite so many goals in a season as Warnock and Hutton? Truly the direst comedy double act since Cannon and Ball.
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Take away two stupid tackles by two experienced players who should know better, and we should be in the next round.
Their other goal was quite poxy to be honest.
Reminded me of QPR away.
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Why are the vast majority of your posts on here made when we lose?
Because it's what he does.
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Why are the vast majority of your posts on here made when we lose?
Because we haven't been winning very often under McLeish?
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Why are the vast majority of your posts on here made when we lose?
Because we haven't been winning very often under McLeish?
He was obviously busy last week.
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Why are the vast majority of your posts on here made when we lose?
In fairness, this season you could argue that this season most of all of our posts come after games we haven't won.
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Have we ever had a pair of full backs who have been so consistently shit and given away quite so many goals in a season as Warnock and Hutton? Truly the direst comedy double act since Cannon and Ball.
Couldn't have put it better myself. The pair of them cost us a place in the 5th round today. I hope Lerner was watching that mess today. He's caused it with his penny pinching.
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Why are the vast majority of your posts on here made when we lose?
Haven't been on the last week legion but to be fair i thought we fluked wolves as well. defence wasn't much better than today
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A cup run would have been nice. A beacon of hope amongst the general mood. We'll just play out the season now finishing 12ish.
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Why are the vast majority of your posts on here made when we lose?
Haven't been on the last week legion but to be fair i thought we fluked wolves as well. defence wasn't much better than today
Apart from 30 mins in the first half at Wolves I thought we played well.
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Have we ever had a pair of full backs who have been so consistently shit and given away quite so many goals in a season as Warnock and Hutton? Truly the direst comedy double act since Cannon and Ball.
They are terrible all right. How come we can see it and AM can't ?
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
Tell that to MON...........
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Have we ever had a pair of full backs who have been so consistently shit and given away quite so many goals in a season as Warnock and Hutton? Truly the direst comedy double act since Cannon and Ball.
They are terrible all right. How come we can see it and AM can't ?
I would imagine he does, but with no money to spend there's not much he can do. I wasn't overly enamored when we signed Hutton but have been shocked by how poor he is so often. I thought we were getting a player than we have, probably so did AM. As for Warnock, he's showing JLS levels of deterioration in performances.
Until we have some money to spend and/or Lichaj and Enda can be called upon there's not much AM can do as what are the options?
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Why are the vast majority of your posts on here made when we lose?
Haven't been on the last week legion but to be fair i thought we fluked wolves as well. defence wasn't much better than today
Apart from 30 mins in the first half at Wolves I thought we played well.
They're just a shitter version of us from the midfield onwards. You could swap our back 4 with theirs and neither side would show any improvement
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
We don't have any other full backs, so as utterly useless as Hutton and Warnock undoubtedly are, we don't really have any alternatives. The whole club is a shambles.
Yes, we do! One of whom AMc signed himself! Let's play Eric and Edna against QPR, they really can't be any worse!
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A cup run would have been nice. A beacon of hope amongst the general mood. We'll just play out the season now finishing 12ish.
I admire your optimism. If we play out the rest of the season like that 12th will be very fortunate indeed. I don't subscribe to the theory that we're 'too good to go down' because, tbh, we really aren't, are we?
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
Tell that to MON...........
Nzog doesn't seem to be flavour of the month with AM though either
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He's injured.
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
Tell that to MON...........
Nzog doesn't seem to be flavour of the month with AM though either
That's because he's rubbish. N'Zogbia that is. Well, and McLeish actually. A rubbish player, bought by a rubbish manager.
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N'zogbia has never convinced me. He may be skillful on his day but he doesn't put the work in. People like Young, even when they were playing crap always worked hard. Rather we'd had finally done away with the wingers and spent the money in central midfield
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
Tell that to MON...........
Nzog doesn't seem to be flavour of the month with AM though either
That's because he's rubbish. N'Zogbia that is. Well, and McLeish actually. A rubbish player, bought by a rubbish manager.
Or because he's injured.
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
Tell that to MON...........
Nzog doesn't seem to be flavour of the month with AM though either
That's because he's rubbish. N'Zogbia that is. Well, and McLeish actually. A rubbish player, bought by a rubbish manager.
Appointed by a rubbish owner!
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Think back.
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Think back.
Don't be daft - he's always been rubbish. They've always said so.
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A cup run would have been nice. A beacon of hope amongst the general mood. We'll just play out the season now finishing 12ish.
I admire your optimism. If we play out the rest of the season like that 12th will be very fortunate indeed. I don't subscribe to the theory that we're 'too good to go down' because, tbh, we really aren't, are we?
I think he's being realistic rather than optimistic. We're a mid table side and as such are seeing mid table results; some good, some bad but mostly somewhere between the two.
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Well I thought N'Zobia looked pretty useful at Wigan and I thought Hutton looked good in the few games I saw him play for Rangers and Scotland. I also thought Shorey looked good at Reading and Curtis Davies looked quite classy at Albion, possibly the new Paul McGrath.
Then again I'm not a highly paid football manager who isn't just seeing these players on the telly.
It's not just AM that has bought us some stinkers.
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Good performances are flukes, according to some. Would those who slagged McLeish at 90 mins have given him credit at 45?
Of course not.
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At 45 mins we were in a great, but fortunate position. We'd not bossed the game, but we had stopped them playing to an extent and had a two goal lead. Not to capitalise on that in the way we did was pathetic.
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I feel like I've been raped.
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How unexpected. In 45 years of watching Villa I'd never seen us do anything like that, especially in the cup. I mean honestly who'd have thunk it?
Entirely predictable. Our season ended at halftime.
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Shaun Teale's opinion of McLeish on fb... he doesn't hold back!
pray tell more to us non Twitterers (did I just invent a word?)
Villa players tweets all in one place...
http://www.ftbpro.com/teams/aston-villa#player-tweets
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I feel like I've been raped.
LOL. No you don't.
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At 45 mins we were in a great, but fortunate position. We'd not bossed the game, but we had stopped them playing to an extent and had a two goal lead. Not to capitalise on that in the way we did was pathetic.
It wasn't fortunate. We played well first half. Stopped them playing and scored two fine goals. What was lucky about that? They were always going to throw everything at us second half and they did. Crap defending cost us in the end.
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Well I thought N'Zobia looked pretty useful at Wigan and I thought Hutton looked good in the few games I saw him play for Rangers and Scotland. I also thought Shorey looked good at Reading and Curtis Davies looked quite classy at Albion, possibly the new Paul McGrath.
Then again I'm not a highly paid football manager who isn't just seeing these players on the telly.
It's not just AM that has bought us some stinkers.
The problem that Alex faces is that he has less money to spend and thus will make fewer signings. Ever signing he makes will be under much more pressure. O'Neill signed Davies, Sidwell and Harewood but he also signed Young and Milner. AM has not been able to sign as many players and as a result has had fewer chances to get it right or wrong as things stand.
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I feel like I've been raped.
I feel like we threw away a two goal lead. I wouldn't go that far.
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Just got home from the game and I am too tired to check to see if anyone else has mentioned it but there was a very nasty incident with the police and stewards just after the final whistle.
My son caught it on video so you can see for yourself I hope very soon once he has posted it.
A lad whose name I obtained called Lee Bannerjee was spotted by the stewards lighting a cigarette and all hell broke loose from the stewards closely followed by the police. It was an absolutely over the top reaction to a minor thing but it very easily could have sparked a serious incident. I managed to push my way through the mob of stewards and police and spoke to Lee to tell him to stay calm, to ask him his name and to tell the police and the stewards to follow the rules and use only proportionate force.
As you can imagine the police and the stewards then turned on me but I pointed out that my son was videoing everything and said that's Damon Green the ITV news journalist. It wasn't it was his younger brother but by God you should have seen them get the message. One said to my son "you don't need to film us, we have it all on CCTV" to which I replied "yes, and who controls the CCTV? you do".
Like I say if my son can get the clip up have a look at it and tell me whether that is an appropriate response to a fan lighting a cigarette.
In passing we should have guess the coppers were spoiling for bother when they - without a word - marched across the approach concourse and snatched the beer out of our hands. A sign somewhere saying alcohol must not be taken past this point would have been a nice gesture to the fans they are only too happy to take money off for beer inside the ground.
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I feel like I've been raped.
That's a bit strong.
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Neither would I. That's going a bit too far.
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At 45 mins we were in a great, but fortunate position. We'd not bossed the game, but we had stopped them playing to an extent and had a two goal lead. Not to capitalise on that in the way we did was pathetic.
It wasn't fortunate. We played well first half. Stopped them playing and scored two fine goals. What was lucky about that? They were always going to throw everything at us second half and they did. Crap defending cost us in the end.
2 - 0 up away from home without been in charge of the game was fortunate, yes we took the goals well but they were our only two real chances.
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Was in the Arsenal end courtesy of season ticket holders. Unfortunately was sussed when Villa scored their second, so had a lot of stick to put up with when Arsenals third went in.
Said to MV junior about a minute before Arsenal scored that if we can get thru the first 15 mins we will be alright. You knew as soon as they scored they would go onto win. OK a shade unlucky with the goals, but mainly down to comedy defending. So predictable. I blame the midfield as much as the defence, just do not seem to be able to hang onto the ball.
I would like to say that we did spend a very pleasant hour post-match in the Kings Head up towards Finsbury Park. Proper pub, with lots of good chat with old Skool Arsenal fans.
So spare a thought for MV junior at school tomorrow, down here in the Arsenal hinterland, for the grief he is going get from all the new wave fans, who have never been any where near the Emirates. Suppose it serves him right for texting them all at half time. He will learn.
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Quite possibly the weirdest game I've ever been to. Absolutely battered for most of the first half but go in 2 up.
The Bent goal (just seen it on TV) was one hell of a finish to a great counter-attack.
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The bloke in front of me didn't take too kindly to the Arsenal third goal. He stood on his seat, jumped up an down trying his best to break it (it may have cracked but modern seats are sturdy) and then stormed off.
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"The first half was blinding, brilliant, international class," said Alex McLeish. "But it's never over, is it. I said to the boys at half‑time there's 45 minutes to go."
Shame he didn't say something about defending too.
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Watched the game live on TV down here. Thought we had won it. Villa Fans brilliant. Can't really blame anyone.
Bloody annoyed. "Own" goal and two pens. Thought we were light in midfield but flippin'heck we need a player like Keano. Wee Barry excellent. Bent finish incredible. Hey, we can hold our heads high. Great game and no nonsense of AMcl negativity, we gave it a bloody good go. Well done Villa. Why do we go deep when in front?
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Meh, how can a team play so well to then go and play so badly... great support from the Villa fans, shame the players couldn't react.
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I feel like I've been raped.
That's a bit strong.
metaphorically speaking, but actually I have, but I won't go into it.
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Wee Barry did plat some killer balls when he came on to be fair. If he is on his way it will be a big loss in the creativity department as he and Ireland seem to be the only players we have that can see a pass and Ireland is wasted out on the wing.
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Im not into this lynching of McLeish just yet! I did think with his rep that he would organise the defence though we really are a shambles. Hutton Warnock Collins Dunne and yes even Cuellar are all abysmal defenders. Go with Lichal Herd Baker and Clark. Ok we'll have to wait for the summer but get rid of the lot and get a centre half in who can lead from the front. look down at the lower leagues and pick a couple of gems. Kyle McFadzean from Crawley for a start. Take a chance on some of them. Our 'senior' defenders are basically "thick as pig shit!'. Get them out!
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Kingy. Sorry didnt meet up with you today mate. It wasnt me!!
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still not miserable enough to drink the bottled piss that is budweiser
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still not miserable enough to drink the bottled piss that is budweiser
Maybe come down for the League game, Take care mate.
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Just got back. I'm fucking gutted.
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Kingy. Sorry didnt meet up with you today mate. It wasnt me!!
Sorry, meant this one.
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Kingy. Couldnt give a shit that all our defence are complete and utter wank stains. The real question is. What happened to you after the match?
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Wee Barry did plat some killer balls when he came on to be fair. If he is on his way it will be a big loss in the creativity department as he and Ireland seem to be the only players we have that can see a pass and Ireland is wasted out on the wing.
A big loss? Bannan has contributed practically nothing in a Villa shirt. Incredibly overrated.
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Get a feckin grip Saunders heroes. The whole defence is a shambles and you pick on a sub who was on for 10minutes?
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Get a feckin grip Saunders heroes. The whole defence is a shambles and you pick on a sub who was on for 10minutes?
Get a grip yourself. I've already blamed our defence for the defeat. I'm just confused that someone is singing the praises of Barry Bannan when he's done nothing to warrant it.
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The biggest problem for me is, and I think JUAN PABLO highlighted this earlier but, we don't learn. We create no intelligence or aptitude as we play. Their entire backline was make shift. They had teenage midfielders playing at the back and we couldn't figure out how to legitimately attack them.
We relied far too much on the counter attack. When we opened them up and had a good go back and forth, especially when Ireland would float into the middle, we looking somewhat promising. But other than that we just set our line at our 45 yard marker and packed it in. It was cowardly. It was an FA Cup game for crying out loud, we have nothing to lose.
Alan Hutton, I'm sorry buddy.. I really tried to give you a chance, I really did. But no, just no. Keep Cuellar, and give this guy the plank.
Stephen Warnock, you worked your socks off. But you need to smarten up. I applaud the effort.
We need to have more creativity in the middle of the park. Clark and Petrov just have no clue how to center a possession oriented offense. At times it we had six full backs, it was shameful.
Early in the game around the 6 minute mark I remember Ireland having a beaut of a flick on to a running Hutton and I thought to myself that Stevie was going to have a day. If he plays, I want him in the middle of the park. He's not a winger, he's a creative pivot player that can distribute. When I thought about his assist to Bent today I realized that no one in our squad, with the exception of Bannan, can or would even consider that pass. And it's such an easy through up to a striker! Petrov would have stomped on it and passed it backwards, at which Hutton would get ahold of it and then to Dunney, a pass back to Given and a boot back to Arsenal.
We need a more potent offensive threat in the heart of the park.
It must've been tough for Alex to watch an 8 minute mauling, only to give up the lead and play with our tails between our legs for a half hour. It was a tough one to watch. He had no solution for this one. Hope he gets it right for QPR.
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Just got home to Manchester after dropping son off in Chester. I haven't read the thread but I can probably guess the sentiment.
I can take losing but as ever its the hope that kills you, 2-0 at half time and you dared to believe for a tiny moment. A depressing and some would say avoidable second half collapse of calamitous proportions.
Oh well thats 55 years now and 22 since I became a supporter and its gnawing away at me, this is the one result of the season that puts me straight into an inconsolable slough of despond. I can take the league defeats after normally a short period of reflection this will normally take a few weeks of hurt. Me and the lad sat in silence the whole way home, couldn't face music or the radio, a suitable period of mourning seemed to be called for.
I'd dissect the match but what would be the point, for 15 minutes everyone of those players let us down today.
See you on Wednesday.....
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Just got home, had an excellent day apart from those fucking 16 minutes.
Started off by finding a pair of tickets in the North stand car park, handed them to security and was pleased to hear they were returned to a couple who were at the ticket office asking if anybody had found them, then found a couple of coach tickets which were taken to coach number 14 and then in the aftermath of our second goal somebody dropped an IPhone, asked a few people around us but nobody claimed it so at half time went to the concourse and had a look through the pictures to try and match a face, belonged to a young lad a few rows behind so was once again returned, even after all that goodwill the lord still wouldn't smile down at us and let us win.
Onto the match we were just way to narrow, for 15/20 minutes at the beginning of the 2nd half we needed to keep possession and frustrate arsenal but we resorted to our kamikaze defending which has become a feature of our season.
When did Arsenal fans turn into a bunch of jester hat wearing Tarquins? Thought I was at Stamford bridge for a while.
One last thing before I shut up and go to sleep, has anybody came across a Mrs Robinson on there travels or at Villa Park? She's an elderly lady (maybe 70's) who's missed 2 away games in 5 years and sat opposite us on the coach, an absolute character and possibly the most knowledgable Villain I've had the pleasure to talk to.
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Just got home, had an excellent day apart from those fucking 16 minutes.
Started off by finding a pair of tickets in the North stand car park, handed them to security and was pleased to hear they were returned to a couple who were at the ticket office asking if anybody had found them, then found a couple of coach tickets which were taken to coach number 14 and then in the aftermath of our second goal somebody dropped an IPhone, asked a few people around us but nobody claimed it so at half time went to the concourse and had a look through the pictures to try and match a face, belonged to a young lad a few rows behind so was once again returned, even after all that goodwill the lord still wouldn't smile down at us and let us win.
Crikey, fair play to you, Luke.
One last thing before I shut up and go to sleep, has anybody came across a Mrs Robinson on there travels or at Villa Park? She's an elderly lady (maybe 70's) who's missed 2 away games in 5 years and sat opposite us on the coach, an absolute character and possibly the most knowledgable Villain I've had the pleasure to talk to.
I'd like to let her know a bit about herself for my files, I'd like to help her learn to help herself.
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Just got home, had an excellent day apart from those fucking 16 minutes.
Started off by finding a pair of tickets in the North stand car park, handed them to security and was pleased to hear they were returned to a couple who were at the ticket office asking if anybody had found them, then found a couple of coach tickets which were taken to coach number 14 and then in the aftermath of our second goal somebody dropped an IPhone, asked a few people around us but nobody claimed it so at half time went to the concourse and had a look through the pictures to try and match a face, belonged to a young lad a few rows behind so was once again returned, even after all that goodwill the lord still wouldn't smile down at us and let us win.
Crikey, fair play to you, Luke.
Anybody on here would've done the same.......... I think haha
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Just got home, had an excellent day apart from those fucking 16 minutes.
Started off by finding a pair of tickets in the North stand car park, handed them to security and was pleased to hear they were returned to a couple who were at the ticket office asking if anybody had found them, then found a couple of coach tickets which were taken to coach number 14 and then in the aftermath of our second goal somebody dropped an IPhone, asked a few people around us but nobody claimed it so at half time went to the concourse and had a look through the pictures to try and match a face, belonged to a young lad a few rows behind so was once again returned, even after all that goodwill the lord still wouldn't smile down at us and let us win.
Crikey, fair play to you, Luke.
One last thing before I shut up and go to sleep, has anybody came across a Mrs Robinson on there travels or at Villa Park? She's an elderly lady (maybe 70's) who's missed 2 away games in 5 years and sat opposite us on the coach, an absolute character and possibly the most knowledgable Villain I've had the pleasure to talk to.
I'd like to let her know a bit about herself for my files, I'd like to help her learn to help herself.
She's in her seventies. Have you no shame?
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McLeish's problem at half time was not how do we defend 2-0 but how do we stop gifting them possession back so quickly. We really did ask - for the whole 90 minutes - for what we eventually got. We had one and a half midfielders playing their five.
The really annoying thing is that although they ran at us with greater purpose at the start of the 2nd half - and were cordially invited to do so - Arsenal still couldn't create that much by way of opportunity. Unfortunately the collection of meatheads and lardarses that passes for our defence meant that they didn't have to.
Both pens were fairly awarded, both were for unnecessary challenges for a ball the opponent had already lost. As for the comedy own goal. FFS
There wan't much McLeish could have done about the quality of defenders at half time - that should have happened three weeks ago, or better still, last July/August.
However, there was plenty that could have been done about a static, undermanned midfield. He failed.
For all his heroics last week, what we really needed this window was a defensive equivalent of Keane. Shaun Teale perhaps.
Dunne not getting a red card was Arsenal's good fortune, not ours.
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I really despair we still have fans who think Dunne is good enough. He's utter crap and would have been found out years ago if we hadn't had hard-working midfielders who could keep the ball and take the pressure off the defence. AM needs to persuade Lerner to get some of those type of midfielders in, or better still replace Dunne and the rest of the hoofers so we have defenders comfortable on the ball. So money in other words. Something's got to give because AM can't carry on as Lerner's yes-man unless he never wants another job in football
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The midfield 2 were ponderous .....Clark and Petrov are good on the ball but lack pace and were badly over run.Its games like this we Miss NRC and even Delph the pair have pace even if they lack in other areas and we missed that in the middle today for a period in the second half we just couldn't get near them in midfield.
The goals were very poor to give away ,some will say Arsenal fought thier way back into the game but it was more a case of us inploding.Dunn lunged in crazily when the ball was easily running to Shay ,Warnock was done for pace yet again like he was against Dyer and then a combination of poor covering ,a poor Hutton Clearance and its 2 -2.The third goal ..well Bent did chase back but the tackle was crazy although he got the ball as the away team it was always going to be an easy decision to give a Pen.
After that we played a little better but the damage was done then...I don't think you can blame the manager too much.He has to expect his players to do better than they did in that situation.Both the fullbacks look dodgy but Clark was no better at LB last week and I doubt Stevens is ready so AMC is really stuck with options at LB.If Herd was fit I would have him at RB if not Culler.
On a postive not Bent is scoring reguarly and linked well with Keane.Ireland was against our best player and tracked back alot.
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I didn't see the game and won't read the match thread yet. How many times have we surrendered the lead in the last couple of seasons. Our problem isn't scoring, it's conceding. We have spent a fortune on defenders in the last 5 years yet we are no further forwards. I would say, if anything our defence has got worse. It's so frustrating when we are going ahead in games and we supporters all just know it won't last.
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I really despair we still have fans who think Dunne is good enough. He's utter crap and would have been found out years ago if we hadn't had hard-working midfielders who could keep the ball and take the pressure off the defence. AM needs to persuade Lerner to get some of those type of midfielders in, or better still replace Dunne and the rest of the hoofers so we have defenders comfortable on the ball. So money in other words. Something's got to give because AM can't carry on as Lerner's yes-man unless he never wants another job in football
I despair of your posts Greg, much more than I despair about Richard Dunne (Poor as he certainly can be) it has to be said - well no actually that's a lie - I would, if I could ever take someone seriously who falls into a vast chasm where there is no internet connection, everytime the team they "Support" dares to nip off your script and win a game or put in a battling performance. I'm gutted by today's defeat, but there's always solace in the fact that I don't inhabit the dimension you do.
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Fair play indeed to you Luke.
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Take away two stupid tackles by two experienced players who should know better, and we should be in the next round.
That's it. As we were at the other end and fairly low down it was difficult to workout exactly what transpired. However having watched it on TV just now I can not believe how reckless both our goal scorerrs were. There was no immediate danger there to do what they did.
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I really despair we still have fans who think Dunne is good enough. He's utter crap and would have been found out years ago if we hadn't had hard-working midfielders who could keep the ball and take the pressure off the defence. AM needs to persuade Lerner to get some of those type of midfielders in, or better still replace Dunne and the rest of the hoofers so we have defenders comfortable on the ball. So money in other words. Something's got to give because AM can't carry on as Lerner's yes-man unless he never wants another job in football
I despair of your posts Greg, much more than I despair about Richard Dunne (Poor as he certainly can be) it has to be said - well no actually that's a lie - I would, if I could ever take someone seriously who falls into a vast chasm where there is no internet connection, everytime the team they "Support" dares to nip off your script and win a game or put in a battling performance. I'm gutted by today's defeat, but there's always solace in the fact that I don't inhabit the dimension you do.
Unfortunately for your conspiracy theories i've been on here plenty of times (well not exactly plenty obv) the night of a win this season. I wasn't on here for the wolves game, or the night after, or the night after, or the night after or the night after that. In fact i wasn't on all week. My internet connection was fine thanks but obviously unlike you i have the problem of things cropping up in my life like relatives in hospital which means i can't stay permanently attached to the internet to satisfy your oddball habit of keeping track of my attendance. Sorry about that.
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A few people have said it already but the big thing from today was that we kept giving the ball back to them. If your defence was solid we could get away with having less than 40% of the ball and playing on the counter, when you have comedy defenders like ours the safest thing to do is play keep ball and reduce the number of chances for them to screw up. The other thing that playing without the ball does is tire you out. At the start of the 2nd half we looked like a team that wanted another 15mins rest at half time.
Petrov is out on his feet by half time every game now, against a team playing 3 in the middle who can all pass and move you can't afford to carry someone.
Bannan and Gardner should've come on much earlier (half time) to replace petrov and 1 of Bent, Gabby, Keane. With the remit being to keep the ball and keep things tight in the middle.
We had been ok in the first half and took 2 of the 3-4 chances we got very well. The problem today was that I don't think he wanted to face the fans slagging him for making defensive subs when we were leading but it ended up being very naive.
Making mistakes in defence cost us but it's not like we don't know it's going to happen so we should be doing everything we can to reduce the chance for them to make the mistakes.
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Chance's we take a shot at a defender before the window closes after this game? I'm saying 15%
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We were never going to win with twats like Ireland giving up at 2-2.
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This will probably get changed, but a Freudian slip anyone for the second bullet point:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/29/robin-van-persie-elbow-aston-villa
(by the way in case it does, it says:
• Arsenal striker 'put elbow to Cuéllar's face,' says Alex McLeish
• Birmingham want FA to look into incident at the Emirates)
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We were never going to win with twats like Ireland giving up at 2-2.
A wee bit harsh on him, no? I thought he was a man of the match candidate for us. He was stuck out of position on the wing. He's not a pacey player that can just track back up and down the field numerous times. He's a central player, he has to float in the middle of the park. He and Bannan were the only two who could play a forward pass. The only players with the courage to turn their man and pass up the field to someones feet!
We're never going to win packing it in and playing hoofnanny.
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Is Mcleish the only person talking about the Van Persie elbow? The rest seem to be bothered about losing a two goal lead in about ten minutes.
A non league team would have been more difficult to break down.
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Yes but we were playing one if the 'elite' teams as he likes to call them in every press conference It really winds me up with his small time mentality .He needs to stop it
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Oh well, at least we're a bit more entertaining now we're scoring quite regularly (away anyway).
Luke: We've all known a Mrs Robinson haven't we? Mine was a quite presentable 43 year-old I 'met' when I was 19. Now she is an embarrassing 70-odd and still toddling round the manor with a bald patch. The moral? Have fun, but make sure she lives far away.
Mike: arguing with greg is an amusing diversion for those of us with normal jobs in shops, factories and offices. I'd have thought it's a bit of a busman's holiday for you though isn't it mate?
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I just knew it was going to happen.
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We were never going to win with twats like Ireland giving up at 2-2.
A wee bit harsh on him, no? I thought he was a man of the match candidate for us. He was stuck out of position on the wing. He's not a pacey player that can just track back up and down the field numerous times. He's a central player, he has to float in the middle of the park. He and Bannan were the only two who could play a forward pass. The only players with the courage to turn their man and pass up the field to someones feet!
We're never going to win packing it in and playing hoofnanny.
It's shame Ireland didn't have the courage to shoot when he got through on Bannans pass.
But saying that, for most of the second half, you probably wouldn't have realised Ireland, Gabby and Keane were on the park and only knew Bent was because he dived in for the Pen. I'm not totally blaming the attackers as the rest of the team were hoofing too much, but for the second match running, we improved after Gabby was taken off.
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Look on the bright side, no really. It was an improvement on last year's cup exit.
At least we didn't give up until the second half this time.
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Typical Villa, 2-0 & we fucked it up
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Do the playing staff have any idea how Villa fans feel about the FA Cup?
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You'd think we'd just lost to Walsall judging by the tone of this thread. Arsenal played very well in the second half, they're a good side full of good good players with the best striker in the league playing for them. Yes, we made mistakes with the goals but we're a club in the process of downsizing and they're in the knockout stages of the Champions League. That's not to make excuses for how we conceded but to put some perspective into events, they're better than we are so we need for them to have an off day or us to have all the luck going.
Let's just skip all the games leading up to the final then, and play it between the top two teams in the division. Oh hang on, they've both been knocked out.
Like I said have an off day, like Manu yesterday. Second place knocking out first place hardly falls into the same category as us at Arsenal.
That smacks of "Villa know your place". If you want some perspective, this is the Arsenal side recently beaten by Fulham and Swansea, and who were held at the Emirates by Wolves and struggled to beat Leeds 1-0 in the last round of the cup. Their defence is particularly ropey when put under pressure, as we showed first half, and they really aren't that good that they should be able to overcome a 2 goal deficit so easily, especially with their own crowd getting on their backs. Yes they upped the ante in the second half but would they have scored three if Dunne hadn't dived in like a runaway (late) train to concede the first penalty, or if our two full backs hadn't shown their combined ineptitude to gift them the second? The fact is our wounds were self inflcited rather than being a result of anything Arsenal did or didn't do, or them being better than us. With just a modicum of composure and /or intelligence form our defenders, it was all so avoidable.
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I think we saw the best and worst of McLeish's Villa in that game.
They came at us strong in the 2nd half, as everyone knew they would, but that's when you need a little cuteness to drag the game down and nullify them. The best way to do that is to keep the ball - notice how the game went a lot flatter after they were 3-2 up? Why can't we dictate the pace like that when we have a two goal lead? Of course, defending like a team of Pee Wee Herman's doesn't help either!
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The mistake was coming out trying to hold on to what we had rather than play the way we were in the first half.
We are not a side who can hold sides, especially talentd sides like Arsenal. If you sit back and let them come at you they will, so why let them? It drives me up the fucking wall.
I'm not gutted though. Like or not, losing away to Arsenal, however good our record is there, is tough but not the shock of the century. I'm as encouraged by the first half as I am disappointed by the second. The goals we conceded were just pathetic.
Nothing has changed my opinion of this current Villa side. We can play but we're inconsistent and tactically naive.
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Didnt see the game but from viewing the goals criticism of McLeish seems harsh. You really cant legislate for the stupid mistakes Dunne and Bent made for their penalties. Cuellar was dung for the first penalty too but there was no need for Dunne to dive in. Given was almost at Ramsey's feet and would have collected it. Bent's was even more madness. Cuellar was just about to intercept the run before that brainfart.
The second goal, much and all as Id like to blame Hutton was a fluke. Warnock was pathetic for it again. Going to ground when there was no need to but Hutton did the right thing coming across to try and clear it.
Ah well there is the glory of a top 10 place to fight for. Without a serious change of attitude at board level the outlook for the future is a bit dull.
There was some positives in our two goals. The first one, finally our second goal from a set piece this season. Good work from Keane and Petrov there. The second goal was a fine breakaway goal. Bent is in good scoring form at the moment but both our goalscorers undid their good work with crazy defensive mistakes.
Not sure why Collins was dropped after the Wolves game. How did the Ireland, Gabby, Keane, Bent quartet go? Thought we would be very open when I saw the teamsheet and would have preferred Albrighton protecting Warnock as he did in the second half at Wolves.
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Didnt see the game but from viewing the goals criticism of McLeish seems harsh. You really cant legislate for the stupid mistakes Dunne and Bent made for their penalties.
This is a point though - without seeing the game, you didn't see how we just backed off and gave up in the second half. The manner of their goals is irrelevant because the way we played made them inevitable.
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When I thought about his assist to Bent today I realized that no one in our squad, with the exception of Bannan, can or would even consider that pass. And it's such an easy through up to a striker! Petrov would have stomped on it and passed it backwards, at which Hutton would get ahold of it and then to Dunney, a pass back to Given and a boot back to Arsenal.
The same Petrov who had a big hand in both our goals by playing the ball early to the most dangerously positioned Villa player at the time.
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Alves in Hutton swap? No...oh, well. Just get that over tattooed slap head out the team.
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Yes they upped the ante in the second half but would they have scored three if Dunne hadn't dived in like a runaway (late) train to concede the first penalty, or if our two full backs hadn't shown their combined ineptitude to gift them the second? The fact is our wounds were self inflcited rather than being a result of anything Arsenal did or didn't do, or them being better than us. With just a modicum of composure and /or intelligence form our defenders, it was all so avoidable.
In some respects, just about every goal can be traced back to a defensive error. Our first came because they only had one man come out to deal with a short coerner - can you imagine how we'd react if that were the other way round.
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Yes they upped the ante in the second half but would they have scored three if Dunne hadn't dived in like a runaway (late) train to concede the first penalty, or if our two full backs hadn't shown their combined ineptitude to gift them the second? The fact is our wounds were self inflcited rather than being a result of anything Arsenal did or didn't do, or them being better than us. With just a modicum of composure and /or intelligence form our defenders, it was all so avoidable.
In some respects, just about every goal can be traced back to a defensive error. Our first came because they only had one man come out to deal with a short coerner - can you imagine how we'd react if that were the other way round.
Yes, but there is well worked and there is gifted. Only one man came out but there was still a lot of work to be done for us to score, the same with our second. With theirs, each one came from someone diving in needlessly, whether it was Dunne, Bent or Warnock to let Walcott get away from him, let alone Hutton then hitting it straight against him when it looked like he had fucked up the chance.
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Do the playing staff have any idea how Villa fans feel about the FA Cup?
Do you think they care?
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Maybe it was the amount of Guinness I drank before the game, maybe it was the pleasant company, maybe it was the sad inevitability of it all, maybe it’s relief at not having to traipse up to the North East for what would almost certainly have been an absurd kick-off time and instead I have a free weekend, maybe it’s the knowledge that I can now book tickets for the concert I want to go to in March without the sixth round throwing a spanner in the works but I simply can’t get worked up about yesterday’s events. Sorry.
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Didnt see the game but from viewing the goals criticism of McLeish seems harsh. You really cant legislate for the stupid mistakes Dunne and Bent made for their penalties.
This is a point though - without seeing the game, you didn't see how we just backed off and gave up in the second half. The manner of their goals is irrelevant because the way we played made them inevitable.
I genuinely think Arsenal were there for the taking. Why our players backed off I'll never know, we made Arsenal look far better than they actually are. There's too many players in our team who are simply not winners.
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There's no leader out there. The team shit themselves in the second half and lost their shape completely. It was depressingly inevitable.
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I did not see the game but listened to radio 5 on the way home from Liverpool . I am angry with the team for capitulation but I half expected that which softens the blow. I am more angry with the coverage from Radio 5. It was like it was only Arsenal playing ( i know it seemed like it) but all the questions were about the Arsenal tempo the Arsenal shots the Arsenal formation. No body questioned why Villa kept giving it way why we had no width and why Gabby went off. It is like we just make up the numbers and this includes Sir Graham input (not blaming him) . Everything was about how Arsenal stepped up nothing about how bad we were. You do wonder why we bother
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Reading those tweety things
Are all footballers thick, illiterate chavs?
I actually dont blame Eck for that - what could he say in the dressing room (good or bad) that would result in total capitulation like we saw?
Everyone of our defenders are internationals and they collectively play like that FFS - nothing a manager can do other than fuck them all off and start again
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I'm so disappointed with the result you would think at 2-0 we would go on and win it but we are the Villa and nothing goes to plan for us there goes another FA Cup dream.
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As the Arsenal player ran towards the box I was commending Bent for working hard in chasing back to defend and then... DOH!
I'll never have a go at Bent for not tracking back again
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Oh well, at least we're a bit more entertaining now we're scoring quite regularly (away anyway).
Luke: We've all known a Mrs Robinson haven't we? Mine was a quite presentable 43 year-old I 'met' when I was 19. Now she is an embarrassing 70-odd and still toddling round the manor with a bald patch. The moral? Have fun, but make sure she lives far away.
And where exactly is said "bald patch" Perc?
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I thought the defence played well in the first half, the left side (Warnock and Dunne) in particular. I said at half time though that we'd be lucky for them to play as well, and for Arsenal to play as badly (especially going forward) in the second half. I couldn't see much of the goal mouth incidents in the second half as I was towards the front of the stand, and so wasn't sure how culpable Dunne and Bent were in conceding their penalties. It was only watching the highlights last night that I realised how self-inflicted that seven-minute reversal had been. The issue for the second seemed to be Dunne not coming out to meet Walcott. Unfortunately these two errors undid all the good work that he did before and after.
I thought taking off Gabby removed our greatest threat at that stage, although I accept that there was a need for a change. I do not understand why Bannan floated those last couple of dead balls into the far post rather than whipping them in lower and with more pace - this has been a general flaw in our play for a long time. Also, its disappointingly predictable watching us desperately try to hang onto possession only to pass it back to Given under pressure to launch it upfield.
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I think I can post now......
I was so utterly convinced we'd win this and that it was our year (I don't know why, I just was!) that the half-time scoreline was merely a justification of that confidence. I thought we'd come out and play the same and see it through, maybe with another one.
That is why it feels so bad today, like they've robbed me of my cup dream. 38 years I've been going down there and this felt like the most likely year (even with MON in the next round).
Bastards.
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What really got to me in the first half was when we had a throw halfway into the Arsenal half. Threw it backwards, passed it around the halfway line a couple of times than back to Given who had no option other than hoof it upfield.
Totally devoid of ideas.
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That is why it feels so bad today, like they've robbed me of my cup dream. 38 years I've been going down there and this felt like the most likely year (even with MON in the next round).
Bastards.
The one positive from losing yesterday (and it's not much of a positive) is that we won't have to listen to the predictable media slavering over O'Neill, and "Villa fans didn't know how well off they were" nonsense (as if we'd driven him out) in the run up to the game.
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That is why it feels so bad today, like they've robbed me of my cup dream. 38 years I've been going down there and this felt like the most likely year (even with MON in the next round).
Bastards.
The one positive from losing yesterday (and it's not much of a positive) is that we won't have to listen to the predictable media slavering over O'Neill, and "Villa fans didn't know how well off they were" nonsense (as if we'd driven him out) in the run up to the game.
True, I bet Oliver Holt et al were slaverishly sharpening their pens at half time, but good old Villa, managed to fuck it up against the elite! Watch MON go and get Sunderland to the final now, so they can continue to fete his messiah-like ways!
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I kind of feel sorry for Sunderland really. That hoofball glass ceiling is approaching at a fair rate of knots currently and already MON must be looking for an exit strategy. I give him till the end of next season when he'll get them to 6th on the back of a load of extravagent spending and then hopefully he'll be able to walk into a bigger club before the inevitable stall in progress and before he starts getting asked about why they've got 20 players in the squad that can't get a game.
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Day after and I am feeling even worse. FFS this was FA Cup and we were 2-0 up...are we ever going to win this Cup again?
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I thought the defence played well in the first half, the left side (Warnock and Dunne) in particular. I said at half time though that we'd be lucky for them to play as well, and for Arsenal to play as badly (especially going forward) in the second half. I couldn't see much of the goal mouth incidents in the second half as I was towards the front of the stand, and so wasn't sure how culpable Dunne and Bent were in conceding their penalties. It was only watching the highlights last night that I realised how self-inflicted that seven-minute reversal had been. The issue for the second seemed to be Dunne not coming out to meet Walcott. Unfortunately these two errors undid all the good work that he did before and after.
I thought taking off Gabby removed our greatest threat at that stage, although I accept that there was a need for a change. I do not understand why Bannan floated those last couple of dead balls into the far post rather than whipping them in lower and with more pace - this has been a general flaw in our play for a long time. Also, its disappointingly predictable watching us desperately try to hang onto possession only to pass it back to Given under pressure to launch it upfield.
According to the commentators on TV Keane was due to come off but Gabby indicated something was wrong so I'm guessing he had a knock.
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Im feeling worse too
my dad went in 1957 and saw us win .
I have seen us win the league with my Dad , I went to the European Cup with my Dad .
I have seen us win 4 league Cup finals with my Dad .
The only thing I havent got in common with my Dad seeing us win a FA Cup together.
Hes getting on abit , Please Villa , win it in my lifetime.
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I got absolutely smashed after the game yesterday to try and block it out. Didn't really work and now I feel as shaky as the defence was yesterday. Same old shite, different day.
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What really got to me in the first half was when we had a throw halfway into the Arsenal half. Threw it backwards, passed it around the halfway line a couple of times than back to Given who had no option other than hoof it upfield.
Totally devoid of ideas.
I think we have imported that footballing philosophy from that mystical place called St Andrew's. I'm not sure how it got here though.
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Im feeling worse too
my dad went in 1957 and saw us win .
I have seen us win the league with my Dad , I went to the European Cup with my Dad .
I have seen us win 4 league Cup finals with my Dad .
The only thing I havent got in common with my Dad seeing us win a FA Cup together.
Hes getting on abit , Please Villa , win it in my lifetime.
Please Villa, win it in his Dad's lifetime.
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I felt for McLeish yesterday. At half time with us being 2-0 up, i can guess that his half time team talk went along the lines of 'Arsenal are going to come at us from the off in the second half, let's keep it as tight as we can and try not to make any uneccassry fouls in or around the box'.
Unfortunatley one of the most experienced players on the pitch threw himself into a stupid challenge that he did'nt need to make and we were then on the backfoot for the rest of the game. I hope he apologised to the rest of the players afterwards.
I'm sure we would have conceded at some point but we seemed to hand the game to them on a plate in that second period. It was such a waste.
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I thought the defence played well in the first half, the left side (Warnock and Dunne) in particular. I said at half time though that we'd be lucky for them to play as well, and for Arsenal to play as badly (especially going forward) in the second half. I couldn't see much of the goal mouth incidents in the second half as I was towards the front of the stand, and so wasn't sure how culpable Dunne and Bent were in conceding their penalties. It was only watching the highlights last night that I realised how self-inflicted that seven-minute reversal had been. The issue for the second seemed to be Dunne not coming out to meet Walcott. Unfortunately these two errors undid all the good work that he did before and after.
I thought taking off Gabby removed our greatest threat at that stage, although I accept that there was a need for a change. I do not understand why Bannan floated those last couple of dead balls into the far post rather than whipping them in lower and with more pace - this has been a general flaw in our play for a long time. Also, its disappointingly predictable watching us desperately try to hang onto possession only to pass it back to Given under pressure to launch it upfield.
According to the commentators on TV Keane was due to come off but Gabby indicated something was wrong so I'm guessing he had a knock.
I didn't hear that. But I did think that Gabby was anonymous second half (along with Ireland, Keane and Bent apart from the Pen.)
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Managers normally play their signings in order to justify them. Hutton will be a regular whilst AMc is in charge....
We don't have any other full backs, so as utterly useless as Hutton and Warnock undoubtedly are, we don't really have any alternatives. The whole club is a shambles.
Yes, we do! One of whom AMc signed himself! Let's play Eric and Edna against QPR, they really can't be any worse!
Eric and Ernie couldn't be any worse!
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Im feeling worse too
my dad went in 1957 and saw us win .
I have seen us win the league with my Dad , I went to the European Cup with my Dad .
I have seen us win 4 league Cup finals with my Dad .
The only thing I havent got in common with my Dad seeing us win a FA Cup together.
Hes getting on abit , Please Villa , win it in my lifetime.
Please Villa, win it in his Dad's lifetime.
I had a couple of arsenal fans round for dinner and to watch the match. Halfway through last week I had a very good feeling about the cup run and they were quite worried about their chances. At half time, I couldn't believe it. Then, I'm sorry but it's probably my fault about the result because I tempted fate. I rang my dad. 'Are you listening?' (he doesn't have ESPN). No, he said, How many have Arsenal got so far?
'We're winning 2-0!'
'Right, I'll switch it on!' Like JP's Dad, he was there in 57 - and could see the whole thing happening again. I thought, get one more, we're away. We all know what happened next. According to Dad, the radio commentary was strictly one-way and he got steadily more depressed as the game wore on!
Please, please Villa, win it again for him. I can't take another phone call of crushing disappointment like the one at the end of the game. His bewildered voice - 'I thought we were winning?'
Or another late sunday dinner with solicitous arsenal fans pretending to sympathise even if they are my nearest and dearest friends!