Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Ads on January 01, 2012, 01:17:23 PM
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... Ciaran Clark.
There were lots of good performances yesterday and over the past few games, but every time I see young Clacker, I cannot help but think of Barry.
I don't think he's a centre half. He's been caught out a few times at Man City and Newcastle last season, but I really do think his future is in the middle of the park.
His touch and composure on the ball is exemplary. He's never going to be the fulcrum of our attacking play, but he provides quality and balance and I just cannot help but make comparisons with Barry. He just seems to make the right pass and the right decision.
Part of the problem that McLeish inherited is that we've lost a host of good players and never replaced them- perhaps Clark is ready to fill a substantial void?
I hope so and more than that, believe so too.
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I think Clark has real potential in midfield. He definitely has a touch of class and is strong and intelligent. I don't think it's any co-incidence that we've had much better balance since he's been playing.
I very much hope he is not sold as I would expect a Cahill situation where he develops well elsewhere into an international class player.
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I think his introduction has massively improved our approach to the game, in that we actually try and keep it on the deck now.
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He doesn't have GB's cheek (see what I did there) with the ball.
Barry always looked a class apart in that regard, even when he initially broke into the side as a left sided CB. The way he could take the ball down and control it in tight situations, turn away from an attacker and play a good pass was almost McGrath esque at times, he made it look so effortless.
But Ciaran is definitely a footballer, not a limited stopper just helping out in midfield. And the change of position could benefit him (and us) immeasurably.
We've had a weakness in midfield as far as height and athleticism is concerned for a while. He brings that to the party and he can play a bit as well. If you go on the market looking for a midfielder like that they cost a bomb.
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I referred to Clark as a potential world beater on here a week or so ago. That may turn out to be an exaggeration but what a result for our Academy. They have unearthed a gem.
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I referred to Clark as a potential world beater on here a week or so ago. That may turn out to be an exaggeration but what a result for our Academy. They have unearthed a gem.
A midfield of Clark, Herd, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan. That's not a bad Academy turnout.
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Of all the youth players we've seen come through over the past year or so Clark has been the one that i've been most excited about. It's been a real bugbear of mine that he's been given so little game time this season.
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Of all the youth players we've seen come through over the past year or so Clark has been the one that i've been most excited about. It's been a real bugbear of mine that he's been given so little game time this season.
But at least he has grabbed his chance. So many times before we have seen players come in and have a bit part to play and not grasp it. Clark looks like he has been playing there for years.
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I referred to Clark as a potential world beater on here a week or so ago. That may turn out to be an exaggeration but what a result for our Academy. They have unearthed a gem.
A midfield of Clark, Herd, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan. That's not a bad Academy turnout.
I agree Dave. It is just a matter of keeping fingers crossed that we may be getting somewhere near the emergence of Beckham, Giggs, Scholes etc. Half of the success of that lot would do for me.
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Indeed DC, that's what's always set him apart for me. Hopefully AM sticks with him now and he can really show what he can do.
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I agree with you all about his role in midfield but I can still see him play a McGrath type role for us at the back. He reads the game so well, times his interventions well and generally makes good decisions (well, okay, the penalty-challenge against the Arse was ill-judged).
Similar to Gazza Bazza, he has a maturity and coolness that I really like.
As a midfielder, he may well help to bring on the likes of GG because of his composure and reading of the game.
He's a class act and I don't care whether he's in defence or MF; as long as he's in the side getting game-time.
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I don't know Kevin, its the little things in games that where Clark shows exactly that sort of effortless poise. There was a time at Stoke where two cloggers were hacking for the ball and he casually rolled the ball from them turned and passed it to a Villa man. The effortless way he slipped Stan through, the quality of his finishes against Arsenal last term.
He's very exciting, plus he's a big old unit too.
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I referred to Clark as a potential world beater on here a week or so ago. That may turn out to be an exaggeration but what a result for our Academy. They have unearthed a gem.
A midfield of Clark, Herd, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan. That's not a bad Academy turnout.
I referred to Clark as a potential world beater on here a week or so ago. That may turn out to be an exaggeration but what a result for our Academy. They have unearthed a gem.
A midfield of Clark, Herd, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan. That's not a bad Academy turnout.
Dave I couldn't agree more. Just wondering if that could happen at any time this season, if not for the whole match, maybe after subs. Be lovely to see. Infact if gabby was on the pitch aswell that would mean our front 6 cost nothing
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I referred to Clark as a potential world beater on here a week or so ago. That may turn out to be an exaggeration but what a result for our Academy. They have unearthed a gem.
A midfield of Clark, Herd, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan. That's not a bad Academy turnout.
I referred to Clark as a potential world beater on here a week or so ago. That may turn out to be an exaggeration but what a result for our Academy. They have unearthed a gem.
A midfield of Clark, Herd, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan. That's not a bad Academy turnout.
Dave I couldn't agree more. Just wondering if that could happen at any time this season, if not for the whole match, maybe after subs. Be lovely to see. Infact if gabby was on the pitch aswell that would mean our front 6 cost nothing
With Lichaj at right-back.
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I agree entirely. He's very composed, doesn't give the ball away cheaply, and knows how to use it.
I hope he stays in the side for an extended run.
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He has the stature and ability to play that role, more so than Herd who for me is more of a defender & less of a footballer. He needs to be given time to learn the role, Barry played for years before switching to a central role. It's unrealistic and unfair to compare him with Barry, who looked a class apart from day one.
You need the right blend of players to complement each other ie...
Ireland, Petrov & Clarke
Bannan, Delph / Gardener & Herd.
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Clark is potentially really good although I must admit I thought it would be at centre back. He might still get through there but at the moment he has to be in central midfield as he's more composed on the ball than Herd.
Another player you wonder why he hasn't been playing more this season. At least the penny is dropping with the manager now, if we keep Carlos, Clark and Ireland in the team, we'll play better football and win more games in the second half of the season.
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My dilemma is i'm thinking of bringing in either Clark or Ireland into my fantasy team. Clark is 4.7m but is down as a defender which means a goal is more points than if he was a defender and can also score points for a clean sheet. Or Ireland who is 5.6m but possibly more likely to get goals/assists? And is it likely they will be given a run in the team?
I'm swaying towards Clark as he's cheaper and has the added bonus of a clean sheet bonus.
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I referred to Clark as a potential world beater on here a week or so ago. That may turn out to be an exaggeration but what a result for our Academy. They have unearthed a gem.
A midfield of Clark, Herd, Gardner, Albrighton, Bannan. That's not a bad Academy turnout.
Quite. Has a team brought through so many youngsters at the same time since united with beckham, scoles, giggs etc?
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I agree with most of the posts on this thread.
All I care to add is that in addition to all those qualities, he is also a threat in the air from set pieces. He's just a great player to have.
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Like others I have a lot of time for the kids coming through. If Clark became as good a player as Barry then we have a heck of prospect on our hands. He's taken is latest chance really well and it's added an incredible balance to the midfield and has breathed new life into Stan Petrov at the same time.
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I agree with most of the posts on this thread.
All I care to add is that in addition to all those qualities, he is also a threat in the air from set pieces. He's just a great player to have.
And helps us defend them.
Most of us were fearing a battering at Stoke because of our inability to defend set pieces over the past 18 months.
Clark (and Cuellar) have played a big part in making us look more secure in that facet of the game too. And it is, afterall, a big part of English football.
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Indeed Kevin, meant to add that to my post. It's no coincidence results and performances have improved since he came into the side.
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I agree with most of the posts on this thread.
All I care to add is that in addition to all those qualities, he is also a threat in the air from set pieces. He's just a great player to have.
And helps us defend them.
Which was AM's reason for fielding Emule; so, playing Clark is a double benefit for us! - he defends well and removes the need to play Emule!
He and Herd as the CMF pairing would be absolutely ideal when both have got more experience. Both have poise, composure and physique.
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I agree with most of the posts on this thread.
All I care to add is that in addition to all those qualities, he is also a threat in the air from set pieces. He's just a great player to have.
And helps us defend them.
Which was AM's reason for fielding Emule; so, playing Clark is a double benefit for us! - he defends well and removes the need to play Emule!
He and Herd as the CMF pairing would be absolutely ideal when both have got more experience. Both have poise, composure and physique.
Don't forget GG. He isn't exactly weedy either and has scored quite a few with his head so should be useful at set pieces as well.
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I agree with most of the posts on this thread.
All I care to add is that in addition to all those qualities, he is also a threat in the air from set pieces. He's just a great player to have.
And helps us defend them.
Which was AM's reason for fielding Emule; so, playing Clark is a double benefit for us! - he defends well and removes the need to play Emule!
He and Herd as the CMF pairing would be absolutely ideal when both have got more experience. Both have poise, composure and physique.
Don't forget GG. He isn't exactly weedy either and has scored quite a few with his head so should be useful at set pieces as well.
True, true.
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I've liked him since he broke through. The best thing about Clark is that wherever he plays; centre back, central midfield or left back he always manages to play well. He really is a hugely versatile player. Secondly, and it's been mentioned before on this thread is the way he plays the game. You see plenty of guys who are Clark's size who are so clumsy but he looks effortless in the pass which is quite unusual for a centre half. He truly is an outstanding prospect for either midfield or defence.
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I've liked him since he broke through. The best thing about Clark is that wherever he plays; centre back, central midfield or left back he always manages to play well. He really is a hugely versatile player. Secondly, and it's been mentioned before on this thread is the way he plays the game. You see plenty of guys who are Clark's size who are so clumsy but he looks effortless in the pass which is quite unusual for a centre half. He truly is an outstanding prospect for either midfield or defence.
I hope we don't do a Barry and stick him everywhere for years before we find his best position. Find where he's best and keep him there.
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Clark and Gardner should be given 5 year contracts right now.
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Clark is a 'football player' rather than a 'footballer'.
There are loads of footballers but not a lot of football players. That is the difference.
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Clark is a fantastic prospect, as someone else has said one of the most frustrationg things all season has been his lack of game time. I'd keep him in midfield for the time being then move him into defence once Gardner is settled in and proving his quality.
We need to start giving the kids more and more game time this season as they are going to make or break our squad as is. If herd, clark, gardner, bannan, albrighton, delph, delfouneso, lichaj, baker and weimann can all prove they're worthy members of the squad who can be relied on, either as starters or to come in when needed it take s a lot of pressure off on building the squad. And that's just focusing on the guys who've played with the first team already and there are 3-4 more quality options coming through, (siegrist and Johnson being the main ones).
If they all make it that's 12 players through the system into the squad, at a conservative guess of £5m a pop that's a 'saving' of at least £60m in transfer fees.
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Clarky has always been a highly intelligent, gifted player. He has it in him to be as good as McGrath, with experience and the right guys around him. It's great to see the way he has taken his chance in recent games but a pity it took AM so long to get round to playing him. We should be thinking of building the side around him and Gardner.
Without getting too carried away I'd be tempted to give Gardner a bit of an extended run. As someone else has suggested, he's a big lad, not easily dispossessed, and I feel could hold his own against most Prem sides.
He'll play against Bristol Rovers!
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Clarke is giving us more than Delph or Herd can at the moment, and fits in with petrov well. Clarke is composed and gives a simple pass when he see's it. Herd needs to improve his passing and Delph needs to stop trying to get to physical with people
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When Clarke plays Stan is freed up to go goal poaching. Given that we all think his legs have gone it is amazing how much box to box stuff Petrov is doing lately and I think Clarke gives him that luxury.
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He has the stature and ability to play that role, more so than Herd who for me is more of a defender & less of a footballer. He needs to be given time to learn the role, Barry played for years before switching to a central role. It's unrealistic and unfair to compare him with Barry, who looked a class apart from day one.
I'm in broad agreement with most of that (as per my previous post). But I have to say that Clark has seemingly adapted to playing CM more quickly than Barry did. Still early days though, of course.
Part of the reason why Barry was moved about so much was that he was good as a left sided CB, passable as a LB (though his lack of pace may have counted against him had he tried to make that position his own) excellent wide left, but only OK (initially) in CM.
Think it was O'Leary in 03/4 who persisted with him in CM -and even then he was a bit hit and miss. It was really only in 05/06 and then in MON's first season that he really looked the part there, by which stage he was 26.
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Barry played against Chelsea in 2001 when SGT was manager. He was against Lampard in midfield and played him off the park that day. But because fwat fwank plays for cwelsky he has shoe in faw ingland.
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Re: What do you call a Gareth Barry without a fat arse?
A bottomless tit?
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i love the way Barry just stood there and watched Sunderland player roll the ball into the net.
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i love the way Barry just stood there and watched Sunderland player roll the ball into the net.
As Norman Crandles, occasional poster on this site once stated, GB used to make one bizarre lateral pass to the opposition each game. And then, he would just stand there with his hand on his hips, watching the fallout.
I vividly remember a game at VP against the short-lived visitors to the PL, Crystal Palace, when he did precisely this, leading to a goal for them. Just stood there, watching. Fat Frank could not master the outrageous insouciance.
A great player, oozing class, but it used to drive me fucking apeshit.
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i love the way Barry just stood there and watched Sunderland player roll the ball into the net.
It reminded me of him half heartedly jogging after Ozil at the World Cup
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i love the way Barry just stood there and watched Sunderland player roll the ball into the net.
It reminded me of him half heartedly jogging after Ozil at the World Cup
With the commentator thinking he must have pulled up with groin strain because of how slow he was moving. I suspected snapped shorts elastic. Very similar to the goal against Liverpool when he took a long freekick that was instantly returned and although he had a 10 yard head start, was totally out sprinted by his bum chum Stevie M£.
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Yeah, that Barry was crap wasn't he?!
Would have him back as cover for Clark and Stan!
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Clark doesn't have the same range of passing as Barry, or is quite as comfortable on the ball. No shame in that, few players are. Barry was absolute class in that respect.
He is still very good on the ball and also has a good turn of speed, is good in the air and has no problem with getting his shorts dirty. A lot of things that Barry seemed incapable of, despite his ample frame.
Clark is a better player than Barry, and ideally suited to the role just in front of the back four. I hope he stays in that position.
We have always seemed to be suckers for the player that exploits the gap between our defence and midfield. A big factor in recent performances has been that Clark has stitched that area up completely.
It's not that he has just been playing well himself, the way he's filled the position has done much to mask the immobility of those behind him. Its also allowed Petrov to play further forward in a position that suits his own skills far better.
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I think for now Clark should be our Defensive Midfielder. It will give him a good chance to learn from Dunne and Collins in the defensive role but will also mean his (expected) mistakes arent as costly whilst he's learning. Think he will be what Cahill should be currently for us: A ball playing, goal scoring centre half. Just a shame he hasn't got Cahill to learn from. Cahill-Clark would be a quality central pairing.
Still think we need a new Defensive Midfielder who is a real brute and can be an enforcer in the middle of the park bu Clark and Herd are both doing great jobs there at the moment. I just worry what they'll be like when Stan leaves as I think he is very good for them at the moment.
Keeping hold of our youth is the most important thing for us at the moment and for the next 5 or 6 six years. Especially in midfield where we seem to have another stream of top youngsters coming through (presuming they too meet their potential).
Clark/Herd/New
Gardner Bannan/Crowley
Albrighton/Graham Grealish/Robinson
Gabby/Fonz/Andi/Burke
That would be a pretty fucking spectacular output for an academy these days. Especially when you look at what many people (not just us) are expecting from players such as Crowley, Grealish, Graham, Gardner and Clark. Presuming they meet their potential this could be as close to a Becks/Scholes generation as we get for a long time (not saying they will be as good or achieve as much... but as close to we will get for a long time imo)
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CM definitely suits Clark. looks really comfortable on the ball just like GB did. He defo offers more that Delph did in his run of games in the first team. That position is now Clarks to lose. Keep it up fella!
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Fantastic post Shoody. With the youngsters mentioned the future is bright. We dont seem to be producing young defenders as much now. Saying that Josh Webb looks promising. Baker and Williams not sure about at all. While were on the subject of youngsters get Siegrist on the bench instead of journeyman Marshall.
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Clark doesn't have the same range of passing as Barry, or is quite as comfortable on the ball. No shame in that, few players are. Barry was absolute class in that respect.
He is still very good on the ball and also has a good turn of speed, is good in the air and has no problem with getting his shorts dirty. A lot of things that Barry seemed incapable of, despite his ample frame.
Clark is a better player than Barry, and ideally suited to the role just in front of the back four. I hope he stays in that position.
We have always seemed to be suckers for the player that exploits the gap between our defence and midfield. A big factor in recent performances has been that Clark has stitched that area up completely.
It's not that he has just been playing well himself, the way he's filled the position has done much to mask the immobility of those behind him. Its also allowed Petrov to play further forward in a position that suits his own skills far better.
Clark has some potential but is a long long way from being a better player than Gareth Barry.
Barry was a regular first teamer at 17 in a side much better than the one we have to watch today. He is now one of the preferred midfield players in a side with more individual talent than any I've seen before (Premier League anyway).
The way he left could have been better handled but he deserves the opportunity to add some honours to the 500 odd games he played for us.
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Clark is far from even being equal to Barry. He has some potential but has yet to prove this over any length of time so calls of him being the next messiah are premature.
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The point I was making is that he has more all round qualities than Barry. That makes him, to me at least, a better footballer.
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The point I was making is that he has more all round qualities than Barry. That makes him, to me at least, a better footballer.
Not sure he does. Don't get me wrong: I think Clark will be a fantastic CB / DMF. But Gazza Bazza is more versatile.
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The point I was making is that he has more all round qualities than Barry. That makes him, to me at least, a better footballer.
Not sure he does. Don't get me wrong: I think Clark will be a fantastic CB / DMF. But Gazza Bazza is more versatile.
I agree, I don't think Clark has the strength or passing range of Barry. Nor does he have the ability to dictate a game in the way Barry did for many seasons. I'm not writing Clark off, but I believe this is premature and we've been here with so many of our youngsters that have failed to live up to expectations.
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Dont forget Clark is still young. Barry didn't control games at Clark's age. He developed that over the years and so did his passing ability. im sure Clark can develop all these over the coming years.
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The point I was making is that he has more all round qualities than Barry. That makes him, to me at least, a better footballer.
Sorry Steve, but what on earth are you basing that on? During a long career with Villa, Barry played as a central defender, left back, left midfielder and central defender, and was excellent in them all. I know we don't like him any more now that he's left, but let's not a) rewrite the history of a very good Villa player, and b) pretend that Clark has achieved anything at all yet.
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When barry emerged as a 17 year he looked head and shoulders above most players on the pitch. He was probably the first player I'd seen come through the ranks and I probably did not realise at the time how rare it was for a player of that quality to be homegrown. I've certainly never seen anyone else be so effortlessly good, especially at that age.
A crucial word is "effortless" though, as I think his footballing brain and skill is world class. He is not however a natural athlete. Gabby on the other hand is an exceptional athlete but does not have the classiness or finesse of Barry but is still a superb footballer.
Clark is probably somewhere in between the two, in the sense he is a better athlete than barry but does not appear to have his class. This does not mean he cannot develop into a great player but one or other characteristic will have to improve to really stand out.
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I really rate Clarke but he is no where near the footballer that Gareth Barry was at the same age. He does however not have one major weakness which Barry did and still does - his abject lack of pace.
While Clarke will improve as a footballer, Gaz Baz has never got any quicker. I think you need both. (unless you like Beckham and have unbelivable crossing ability and good looks).
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Barry made his name as a defender, but then lost his place under Gregory and eventually re-emerged as a very good midfield player, which is where he plays to this day. Clark is, to my mind, a natural CB who is currently playing in midfield.
So any comparisons should wait until we've seen Clark have a run in his best position. All you can say thus far is Barry IS a very good player and Clark looks like becoming one.
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Barry made his name as a defender, but then lost his place under Gregory and eventually re-emerged as a very good midfield player, which is where he plays to this day. Clark is, to my mind, a natural CB who is currently playing in midfield.
So any comparisons should wait until we've seen Clark have a run in his best position. All you can say thus far is Barry IS a very good player and Clark looks like becoming one.
I just don't think Clark has enough physical presence to be a centre half. He also has a tendency to commit himself which I guess should improve with experience. Lack of pace also counts against him in that position.
I think a holding midfield role is the position that suits him best as he has a knack of making time for himself and passes the ball well.
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I wouldn't say Barry's lack of has gone against him though. Not everyone need to be able to run at the speed of gabby or ronaldo. Barry has a very good footballing brain. The vision and skill to pick out a pass and start building attacks outweighs is pace.
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I just don't think Clark has enough physical presence to be a centre half.
He's 6 foot 2 and at only 22 has the time to fill out a little. Plus, I see him as more of the 'covering' CB playing off a big man, so physical presence is less important.
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I wouldn't say Barry's lack of has gone against him though. Not everyone need to be able to run at the speed of gabby or ronaldo. Barry has a very good footballing brain. The vision and skill to pick out a pass and start building attacks outweighs is pace.
But only unless you have superb technical ability, Cruyff or Hoddle like. Barry is very good but not 'world class' so a lack of pace will be an issue, especially when playing against the best. Don't forget, he left us to play in the Champions League. Anyone who saw him embarressed in Germany's 4th goal in the 4-1 rout at the World Cup will see how a lack of pace at the top level can make you look very stupid.
A great player for us mind but he did tend to go missing in big matches.
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My early memory of Fat Baz is of him being very good in a back 5, far from as good in a back 4. Losing his way for a while, whinging about leaving and finally SGT MkII played him in midfield on a regular basis and the rest, as they say, is history.