Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on December 20, 2011, 01:58:38 PM
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Assuming we have another negative line up, piss poor tactics, no heart and Emile Heskey against Arsenal with the all too bleeding predictable loss as well as played off the park.
Is it time yet to take some action against the manager and regretably the board who inconcievably chose him?
Already small pockets of anti AM songs have started - how long before this grows and grows to a point where RL has to at the very least come out and do / say something
Its like watching our club go through a painful death at the moment.
Is it time to make our opinions count?
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No, by the way explain what you mean by "another negative line up"?
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Already small pockets of anti AM songs have started - how long before this grows and grows to a point where RL has to at the very least come out and do / say something
Same as is always done. The sheep stay silent until enough around them are bold enough to join in.
I am totally against an action that will guarantee we lose and make us look a laughing stock like Blackburn.
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There was a couple of chants around me on sunday including "my mom could do a better job"
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No, by the way explain what you mean by "another negative line up"?
I would say negative tactics, rather than lin-up, although having Emile in midfield (or anywhere in the team) is piss poor.
As Randy appointed him, why not aim the chants at him? Not that I agree in doing this.
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There was a couple of chants around me on sunday including "my mom could do a better job"
Were these the same idiots who were booing Jose Enrique for the first 10 minutes?
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It will kick off soon enough. The ABAM brigade have been biding their time since the start of the season. They couldn't get him out then because a)Lerner would have looked a plonker if he'd sacked a manager before he'd had a game and b) because their argument against AM wasn't based on anything logical, but performances and results are rapidly changing that.
He's onto a loser basically. Unfairly, he'd have to finish at least the same position as last season with a crappier squad to survive longer than May. And even if he managed that, it would all start again next season as soon as we had a few bad results
If we do end up in the 15th-16th area of the league come January then Lerner will have to decide whether to try and keep him on till the summer against the fan's wishes and then quietly let him go or make a switch in January. An unpleasant decision for Lerner to make either way, but seeing its totally his own fault, i haven't much sympathy for him.
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I quite liked the chorus of "what the fuck is going on?" on sunday. More of that please.
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Much rather see us get behind the team.
Don't expect much in the transfer window - but must give the guy a fair crack of the whip - which is more than half a season.
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I don't agree with being anti-Villa during the game. But I think the writing is on the wall for Mcleish, whether it comes sooner or later I don't know.
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Never really agreed with protesting or anti-manager/board banners. The question about them I have to ask is what they are seeking to achieve? To let the board know people are unhappy? Surely everyone knows already that a significant percentage are unhappy with things at the moment. All it will achieve is to distract the players, make the manager even more scared of losing games and possibly make the supporters look like idiots (like the Blackburn fans who booed Yakubu for celebrating with Kean-Out and the Liverpool fans who went in 10 minutes late to the game they were going to anyway).
If people are really desperate to send the club a message they should stay away and not put any money into the club (not that I would personally do this). It's far less damaging and far more effective. If you go to the ground you should try to at least support the team.
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It will kick off soon enough. The ABAM brigade have been biding their time since the start of the season. They couldn't get him out then because a)Lerner would have looked a plonker if he'd sacked a manager before he'd had a game and b) because their argument against AM wasn't based on anything logical, but performances and results are rapidly changing that.
He's onto a loser basically. Unfairly, he'd have to finish at least the same position as last season with a crappier squad to survive longer than May. And even if he managed that, it would all start again next season as soon as we had a few bad results
If we do end up in the 15th-16th area of the league come January then Lerner will have to decide whether to try and keep him on till the summer against the fan's wishes and then quietly let him go or make a switch in January. An unpleasant decision for Lerner to make either way, but seeing its totally his own fault, i haven't much sympathy for him.
Perfect summing up of things gnasher!
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I honestly think Randy will let us get relegated before sacking AM, he just won't sack him, he would look such an idiot.
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I'm waiting for the point when apathy turns to anger down there because you can feel it beginning to change. May happen tomorrow if it becomes as emarrassing as the last two home games.
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I don't like booing the team during games, and I don't really like anti-manager chants, I'd rather focus on the match while it is going on.
I thought that the ironic "Ole's" when we managed to string two passes together were far more effective in conveying the feelings of a lot of the supporters than any "sack McLeish" chants would be.
Far more depressing, too.
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Are a few boos going to change anything? No. Protests? No. Randy's made his decision. He'll stick by it till the bitter end. There's no way in hell Randy will fork out yet more money to fire McLeish, then hire someone else. He can't do that again. It cost enough with the ins and outs for O Neill, Houllier and Eck as it is.
Unless something drastic happens, then we're stuck with McLeish and his sod awful brand of football and clueless management. We're also stuck with Randy Lerner who knows nothing about running a football club because we're not an attractive buying proposition for anyone. In a business sense we don't make enough money to work and run, in the black, as a top 6 side. We're also not fashionable enough to be a billionaires play thing. To turn a profit we still need to trim our wage bill. In turn, with how football is, we could just about manage to maintain ourselves as a mid-table club. But obviously the right man in charge of the team can make the difference with that fine line between mid-table mediocrity, or relegation scrappers. McLeish is sucking us into the latter, whereas say O Neill if he was still here now, with this squad, would have us very comfortably between 7th-12th by the end of the season, year on year. I see us finishing anywhere between 9th-19th
Gone are our days though of overextending in the transfer market. It was only by doing that we flirted with top 4 and had 3 top 6 finishes.
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I don't agree with that during a game i'd much rather get behind the team. Having said that the fans don't seem bothered about anything anyway, it's like everyone has just accepted this is how things are going to be.
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While mcleish must take blame for team selection and tactics he has lost his star providers and been given far less to spend having lost almost half of last seasons team in friedal, walker, reo-coker, downing and young and any manager coming in will struggle to get results without serious financial backing.
I think however that mcleish now has a virtually impossible task and has lost the fans in too big a way to turn it around and it will inevitably end in his departure in the coming months.
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We're 10th, not 19th. Protests won't make Lerner get rid of him so it will just make us look silly.
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We're 10th, not 19th. Protests won't make Lerner get rid of him so it will just make us look silly.
It's obvious that a section of our support have lost the sense of self-awareness that should make them see that. They all want to be on SSN and part of a Facebook campaign rather than think about anything more deeply.
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There was a 'Had Enough, Houllier Out' banner
The Holte End sang "Fuck off Houllier, the Villa is ours"
The Holte End sang "Sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning"
The Holte End sang "You don't know what you're doing"
And the board still backed Houllier.
The fans outside Villa Park sang "We don't want McLeish, say we don't want McLeish"
They had banners saying "Stay the Eck away from Villa Park"
17,000 Villa fans joined a Facebook group called "Aston Villa fans we don't want Alex McLeish"
And the board still appointed McLeish.
Frankly, the board do not care what the fans think.
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Frankly, the board do not care what the fans think.
There's one thing the fans could do to change that but it does not entail protests or banners. You just stop going.
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We're 10th, not 19th. Protests won't make Lerner get rid of him so it will just make us look silly.
It's obvious that a section of our support have lost the sense of self-awareness that should make them see that. They all want to be on SSN and part of a Facebook campaign rather than think about anything more deeply.
Or maybe they care about the club they love and fear for where we are heading, i agree facebook campaigns and protests have little affect but equally i believe that fans have a right to express their fears as we head into a very worrying time , the reality is we could easily be in the bottom 4 or 5 in a fortnights time and we are in trouble no matter how people try to gloss over things.
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Facebook groups and banners are symptoms of the poxy X Factor Britain we live in. Everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion and if something isn't done about it there and then, it's toys out of the pram time.
Banners make Villa look cheap and the more I hear from the boors who purport to follow our club, the more I want McLeish to stay and succeed.
If you want to see yourselves on television waving your bedsheets, making twats of yourself then go ahead but as far as I'm concerned you're no better than the shower of shite down the road. You are an embarrassment to the glorious name of Aston Villa.
Get a fucking grip and support the team.
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How about a slow hand clap,haven't heard one of those down VP for years.
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Are a few boos going to change anything? No. Protests? No. Randy's made his decision. He'll stick by it till the bitter end. There's no way in hell Randy will fork out yet more money to fire McLeish, then hire someone else. He can't do that again. It cost enough with the ins and outs for O Neill, Houllier and Eck as it is.
Unless something drastic happens, then we're stuck with McLeish and his sod awful brand of football and clueless management. We're also stuck with Randy Lerner who knows nothing about running a football club because we're not an attractive buying proposition for anyone. In a business sense we don't make enough money to work and run, in the black, as a top 6 side. We're also not fashionable enough to be a billionaires play thing. To turn a profit we still need to trim our wage bill. In turn, with how football is, we could just about manage to maintain ourselves as a mid-table club. But obviously the right man in charge of the team can make the difference with that fine line between mid-table mediocrity, or relegation scrappers. McLeish is sucking us into the latter, whereas say O Neill if he was still here now, with this squad, would have us very comfortably between 7th-12th by the end of the season, year on year. I see us finishing anywhere between 9th-19th
Gone are our days though of overextending in the transfer market. It was only by doing that we flirted with top 4 and had 3 top 6 finishes.
Great post. Exactly how I feel about the situation. I saw this coming a mile off when the appointment was made, and it's all panning out just so. The club were aware of the strength of feeling when such a bewildering, uninspiring decision was made, and they did it anyway - from their point of view, we're 10th, so they're perfectly happy. Choosing McLeish was only partly about football, and mostly about finance, in my opinion.
To those getting angered or wound up, my advice would be to accept the situation, because this is how it is for the foreseeable future. And that's a pretty sad thing to say.
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Frankly, the board do not care what the fans think.
There's one thing the fans could do to change that but it does not entail protests or banners. You just stop going.
Everyone should have boycotted the first home game of the season against Blackburn.
McLeish's first home game - Attendance: 143
Would have been great.
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It will kick off soon enough. The ABAM brigade have been biding their time since the start of the season. They couldn't get him out then because a)Lerner would have looked a plonker if he'd sacked a manager before he'd had a game and b) because their argument against AM wasn't based on anything logical, but performances and results are rapidly changing that.
He's onto a loser basically. Unfairly, he'd have to finish at least the same position as last season with a crappier squad to survive longer than May. And even if he managed that, it would all start again next season as soon as we had a few bad results
If we do end up in the 15th-16th area of the league come January then Lerner will have to decide whether to try and keep him on till the summer against the fan's wishes and then quietly let him go or make a switch in January. An unpleasant decision for Lerner to make either way, but seeing its totally his own fault, i haven't much sympathy for him.
Exactly as per the article linked in my signature below: Lerner is on the horns of a dilemma of his own making.
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we're not an attractive buying proposition for anyone. In a business sense we don't make enough money to work and run, in the black, as a top 6 side. We're also not fashionable enough to be a billionaires play thing.
Whilst you make some good points, Tom, I disagree with the highlighted bit: Citeh were not particularly fashionable when the Thai and then the Sheik took over. The Birmingham conurbation should represent enormous potential to someone with deep enough pockets to 'go big' with the Villla. I know that we have historically struggled to consistently filll the ground but if someone were to 'do a Citeh' on us, I'm sure that we'd see the ground full.
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Frankly, the board do not care what the fans think.
There's one thing the fans could do to change that but it does not entail protests or banners. You just stop going.
Everyone should have boycotted the first home game of the season against Blackburn.
McLeish's first home game - Attendance: 143
Would have been great.
Blackburns away support isn't that big.
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I really do think that he is out of his depth with a club of the size of the Villa.
Its no shame, many players have not been able to make the step up and its the same for managers [Just look at Roy Kean]
Lerner should recognise this and sort it out, trouble is I get the impression that Mr Lerner himself is a little out of his depth at the moment and is holding on and hoping for the best.
In my opinion Mcliesh is beaten [and looked like it on Sunday] and the time has come for him to go his merry way
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While mcleish must take blame for team selection and tactics he has lost his star providers and been given far less to spend having lost almost half of last seasons team in friedal, walker, reo-coker, downing and young and any manager coming in will struggle to get results without serious financial backing.
True but he had N'Zog and Albie in the squad to be providers and has only recently started playing them in the side together - as per Young and Downing.
I think however that mcleish now has a virtually impossible task and has lost the fans in too big a way to turn it around and it will inevitably end in his departure in the coming months.
The first half is probably right but whether the second clause will play out is debatable - RL has already taken the hit on several payouts recently.
As the article linked in my signature below says.
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I was not suggesting we did anything it was a question to guage how the mood has changed. I was one of the few that did not welcome him but was prepared to give him a chance and a clean slate. My thoughts have changed each time i speak with my Blues mates. The more i speak to them about his time at the temple of doom the more we are turning into them. What i cannot understand is man for man every position we have is a better calibre of player than he had at Blues yet we are actually playing worse. Only Gabby has improved but after a season of injury, fall outs with GH and his boyhood love for villa that was almost expected.
Every other player has seemingly gone backwards. As another poster said he could have the Barca midfiled and Messi and would stop them playing. I see the players before kick off and the feeling is one of that they have just met up like a pub side. No laughing, team spirit - just nothing
Now if there is truth in player power then drop the feckers - Collins et al we have replacements so why does he not drop them
You just know that come tomorrow barring injury it will be the same old team and tactics
I have never seen a more cowardly, inept, unmotivational, tactically inept manager in my life
The thing we have that keeps us going in football is hope - whatever level you watch or play in its hope that today will be a game to remember, a thrill a minute end to end game of fast paced skilled football
We look beaten before we take to the field and once that hope is taken what the hell is left.
It really is a sad state of affairs. If it was player mutiny - then i am sorry it is the manager who can change that
Play the bloody reserves if need be - we would probably still lose but at least he would have my respect for having some balls against so called mutinous players
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Facebook groups and banners are symptoms of the poxy X Factor Britain we live in. Everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion and if something isn't done about it there and then, it's toys out of the pram time.
Banners make Villa look cheap and the more I hear from the boors who purport to follow our club, the more I want McLeish to stay and succeed.
If you want to see yourselves on television waving your bedsheets, making twats of yourself then go ahead but as far as I'm concerned you're no better than the shower of shite down the road. You are an embarrassment to the glorious name of Aston Villa.
Get a fucking grip and support the team.
Totally agreed.
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Everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion and if something isn't done about it there and then, it's toys out of the pram time.
That could be the H&V motto!
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There was a 'Had Enough, Houllier Out' banner
The Holte End sang "Fuck off Houllier, the Villa is ours"
The Holte End sang "Sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning"
The Holte End sang "You don't know what you're doing"
And the board still backed Houllier.
The fans outside Villa Park sang "We don't want McLeish, say we don't want McLeish"
They had banners saying "Stay the Eck away from Villa Park"
17,000 Villa fans joined a Facebook group called "Aston Villa fans we don't want Alex McLeish"
And the board still appointed McLeish.
Frankly, the board do not care what the fans think.
Perfect summing up of the Board's attitude. Lerner attends a game so few times he's out of touch. Faulkner does as he's told, as for Gen Krulak? A complete joke!
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A protest would be wasted.The Browns fans have been doing it for years.
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Facebook groups and banners are symptoms of the poxy X Factor Britain we live in. Everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion and if something isn't done about it there and then, it's toys out of the pram time.
Banners make Villa look cheap and the more I hear from the boors who purport to follow our club, the more I want McLeish to stay and succeed.
If you want to see yourselves on television waving your bedsheets, making twats of yourself then go ahead but as far as I'm concerned you're no better than the shower of shite down the road. You are an embarrassment to the glorious name of Aston Villa.
Get a fucking grip and support the team.
Totally agreed.
Just because you dissagree with them, does'nt make them wrong in there aims
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I am concerned about the performances and results along with everyone else but I'm also concerned with how we are perceived by the media and other fans. Most journalists and keen football fans over 25 would probably remember we weren't keen on John Gregory despite doing reasonably well, we turned on Sir Graham, hated O'Leary (although I think they would let us have that one), moaned about MON despite doing well under him, moaned about GH pretty much from the start and raged about AM even before the start. Now we are throwing major tantrums when we are in a mid table position. We all knew December would be tough. I think we are starting to look silly and should try and hold our collective nerve a bit better.
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A protest would be wasted.The Browns fans have been doing it for years.
Yes, and with Lerner's ''I know best'' pig-headed attitude it will see us in the Championship very soon. He's useless!
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Already small pockets of anti AM songs have started - how long before this grows and grows to a point where RL has to at the very least come out and do / say something
Same as is always done. The sheep stay silent until enough around them are bold enough to join in.
I am totally against an action that will guarantee we lose and make us look a laughing stock like Blackburn.
Well if you know any actions that will guarantee a win I'm all for it. Although Blackburn have also won games with the boo boys present.
I believe Blackburn fans are protesting over owners who don't seem to know what they are doing, selling their best players but not reinvesting the money properly and appointing a manager who is well out of his depth.
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Already small pockets of anti AM songs have started - how long before this grows and grows to a point where RL has to at the very least come out and do / say something
Same as is always done. The sheep stay silent until enough around them are bold enough to join in.
I am totally against an action that will guarantee we lose and make us look a laughing stock like Blackburn.
Well if you know any actions that will guarantee a win I'm all for it. Although Blackburn have also won games with the boo boys present.
I believe Blackburn fans are protesting over owners who don't seem to know what they are doing, selling their best players but not reinvesting the money properly and appointing a manager who is well out of his depth.
Full support from the whole crowd throughout the game would help but we never get that, even when we are playing well.
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Facebook groups and banners are symptoms of the poxy X Factor Britain we live in. Everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion and if something isn't done about it there and then, it's toys out of the pram time.
Banners make Villa look cheap and the more I hear from the boors who purport to follow our club, the more I want McLeish to stay and succeed.
If you want to see yourselves on television waving your bedsheets, making twats of yourself then go ahead but as far as I'm concerned you're no better than the shower of shite down the road. You are an embarrassment to the glorious name of Aston Villa.
Get a fucking grip and support the team.
Agreed in principle mbb, and the attendance and depth of "backlash" at the moment suggests that the vast majority of Villa supporters feel exactly the same. It's only a few who are "rebelling". I will try to forget Sunday and look forward optimistically to us turning things around tomorrow. As manager of our club we all want McLeish to succeed!
But, surely fans who feel strongly are allowed to express their opinion and let those at the top of the tree know that we're not very happy about being shat upon. Otherwise, they will assume everything's just fine and dandy won't they? Is expressing concern for the way we're playing and being run at present "making twats of yourself"?
I will always support my team but it hurts to see the way things seem to be going at the moment. I can almost guarantee that those at the top and representing AVFC will all have moved on in 5 years' time, leaving the club in whatever state they do. The supporters will still be here getting "a fucking grip and supporting the team" like we always have.
As soppy as it sounds the fans care about the club. It seems at the moment as though no fucker else does!
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Shouldn't we just support the team? Particularly during the actual match. Boo at the end if you like!
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There was a couple of chants around me on sunday including "my mom could do a better job"
Were these the same idiots who were booing Jose Enrique for the first 10 minutes?
I could'nt get my head around that, I was trying to think if he'd got previous with us or something then realised it was because they thought it was Downing.
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Same colour boots.
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Support the team as the game is played. But before, at half time and at final whistle I think the fans who have made the effort to attend the match should be able to stamp and shout as much as they see fit.
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There was a couple of chants around me on sunday including "my mom could do a better job"
Were these the same idiots who were booing Jose Enrique for the first 10 minutes?
I could'nt get my head around that, I was trying to think if he'd got previous with us or something then realised it was because they thought it was Downing.
It was the boots that did it.
Thats understandable, I was constantly getting Ash and Downing mixed up when they kept wearing the same boots.
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I'm not sure what's worse. Booing Enrique by mistake because of the boots or about ten years back when Luke Chadwick got booed for being blonde like Beckham.
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From the minute he was appointed the clock started ticking.
The only thing that will save him is good form, good results, half decent perfomances and a positive attitude towards games against anyone other than relegation fodder. And that looks light years away.
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Already small pockets of anti AM songs have started - how long before this grows and grows to a point where RL has to at the very least come out and do / say something
Same as is always done. The sheep stay silent until enough around them are bold enough to join in.
I am totally against an action that will guarantee we lose and make us look a laughing stock like Blackburn.
Well if you know any actions that will guarantee a win I'm all for it. Although Blackburn have also won games with the boo boys present.
I believe Blackburn fans are protesting over owners who don't seem to know what they are doing, selling their best players but not reinvesting the money properly and appointing a manager who is well out of his depth.
Full support from the whole crowd throughout the game would help but we never get that, even when we are playing well.
Not sure why you think Blackburn are a laughing stock DCF. The Venkeys are trying their best make them such, and for me it's fair play to the fans for sticking up for the long term future of their club. The best forum to get publicity for their message is during the games themselves. What's more embarrassing, sticking up for your club like them, or sitting there clapping like a performing seal while the club gets shafted up the wrong'un? I'm not sure if the the instigators of the 1968 revolution would have been inspired to book Digbeth civic hall if Villa fans had continued rattling their rattles and waving their scarves during some of our more abject performances, instead of stamping their feet, slow hand clapping and calling for the board to go. As I've said before, if you are happy to be fed shite without complaint, you will be.
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I'm not sure what's worse. Booing Enrique by mistake because of the boots or about ten years back when Luke Chadwick got booed for being blonde like Beckham.
My Utd supporting mate loves bringing this up.
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A protest would be wasted.The Browns fans have been doing it for years.
Slightly different here I think. Not sure Lerner will close his ears if he fears the guaranteed £60m per annum income is about to go down the drain. Money is louder than any of us fans.
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Already small pockets of anti AM songs have started - how long before this grows and grows to a point where RL has to at the very least come out and do / say something
Same as is always done. The sheep stay silent until enough around them are bold enough to join in.
I am totally against an action that will guarantee we lose and make us look a laughing stock like Blackburn.
Well if you know any actions that will guarantee a win I'm all for it. Although Blackburn have also won games with the boo boys present.
I believe Blackburn fans are protesting over owners who don't seem to know what they are doing, selling their best players but not reinvesting the money properly and appointing a manager who is well out of his depth.
Full support from the whole crowd throughout the game would help but we never get that, even when we are playing well.
Not sure why you think Blackburn are a laughing stock DCF. The Venkeys are trying their best make them such, and for me it's fair play to the fans for sticking up for the long term future of their club. The best forum to get publicity for their message is during the games themselves. What's more embarrassing, sticking up for your club like them, or sitting there clapping like a performing seal while the club gets shafted up the wrong'un? I'm not sure if the the instigators of the 1968 revolution would have been inspired to book Digbeth civic hall if Villa fans had continued rattling their rattles and waving their scarves during some of our more abject performances, instead of stamping their feet, slow hand clapping and calling for the board to go. As I've said before, if you are happy to be fed shite without complaint, you will be.
I agree KT. I have not gone down this season, mainly due to the direction of the club and cost not being justified, but were I down there I would happily sing for him to be sacked, just how I was not willing to join in anti-Houllier ones because I believed in him.
For me I don't buy into this nonsense about having to support the team. If they are your mates park side or your sons school side yes, of course, but they are grown men, being paid 2 million pounds each plus a year, managed by a man earning 2 million pounds ish a year. Now, if paying customers are not happy, they have every right to boo, sing and chant about the state of affairs, as without the fans country wide football would not exist. Going 2-0 down at home in 15 minutes did not bring about any more than apathy on Sunday, and it is a sure fire sign of where we are going when the fans are too polite to voice their opinion. I would bet if you canvassed every Villa fan in the ground, 90% would want him sacked. Doing nothing about it as fans is for me way more embarrassing than singing for him to get the sack. We might as well bend over.
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There was a 'Had Enough, Houllier Out' banner
The Holte End sang "Fuck off Houllier, the Villa is ours"
The Holte End sang "Sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning"
The Holte End sang "You don't know what you're doing"
And the board still backed Houllier.
The fans outside Villa Park sang "We don't want McLeish, say we don't want McLeish"
They had banners saying "Stay the Eck away from Villa Park"
17,000 Villa fans joined a Facebook group called "Aston Villa fans we don't want Alex McLeish"
And the board still appointed McLeish.
Frankly, the board do not care what the fans think.
Perfect summing up of the Board's attitude. Lerner attends a game so few times he's out of touch. Faulkner does as he's told, as for Gen Krulak? A complete joke!
No, it isn't. None of the knobs listed in the post spoke for me, it's just a minority of impatient attention seekers and the board are right to ignore them.
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Q. to Chris Smith
Are you happy with what's going on at Villa ?
Do you think we're making progress in the right direction ?
Can you see a Chairman and Board who have the ability to bring some success to Villa ?
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I'd never want to see anyone subjected to abuse, but I don't see the problem with fans showing concern for the direction of the club - I've noticed, since the Spurs game, that Villa are being discussed in depth and frequently in the media; on the radio and TV, and the overwhelming theme is the state of the team and the situation at the club. I've heard pundits and journalists and former players all expressing their dismay at what they've been watching and while I don't agree with the 'worst Villa team I've seen' quotes that have been bandied about by some, I am worried. I don't believe that's unjust moaning.
It's up to the manager and the board to turn the situation around.
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There was a 'Had Enough, Houllier Out' banner
The Holte End sang "Fuck off Houllier, the Villa is ours"
The Holte End sang "Sacked in the morning, you're getting sacked in the morning"
The Holte End sang "You don't know what you're doing"
And the board still backed Houllier.
The fans outside Villa Park sang "We don't want McLeish, say we don't want McLeish"
They had banners saying "Stay the Eck away from Villa Park"
17,000 Villa fans joined a Facebook group called "Aston Villa fans we don't want Alex McLeish"
And the board still appointed McLeish.
Frankly, the board do not care what the fans think.
Perfect summing up of the Board's attitude. Lerner attends a game so few times he's out of touch. Faulkner does as he's told, as for Gen Krulak? A complete joke!
No, it isn't. None of the knobs listed in the post spoke for me, it's just a minority of impatient attention seekers and the board are right to ignore them.
I see, so your happy with Shit football, players who go shopping on match-days, selling the best players year-on-year, no transfer funds, a wafer thin squad, a crap manager, an inept board, dwindling gates? I could go on.
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A: to Tim.
Protests after a third of the season when we're 10th in the league will make those taking part, and by association the rest of us, look daft.
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i'd love Mcliesh to leave and put a manager in that i want and agree with, and thats the nub 'that i want' we all want different things,
i mean look at Moyes he was to many the chosen one for Villa, yet in my view the football on display would be much the same as we have already and probably around the same league position,
we think we are crap, have you seen where Everton are in the league table, below us, same go's for Hughes and everyone else like them, they are all very similar in the way they play the game, and unless we take a risk and it comes of we could just be going round in circles with someone else.
i believe there are managers that just happen fit a club and no one knows why it just happens, when they move on to bigger things they just cant recreate what they did before, we need one of those but you can never tell who it will be untill it happens,
maybe you have to take a risk, which has as much chance of failure than of success, maybe AM was Lerners 'risk' which isnt paying of.
yes i would want Mcliesh to go, but if it meant another clone coming to VP in the shape of Moyes, Hughes, Allardyce, Pullis etc i'd rather just stick with what we have got and get behind him.
i would kill for a Holloway, Keegan, Martinez, Lambert, Rodgers, Robinson but thats the problem, its what i want, not what would please everybody else, it all become very subjective,
so in reply to the question of Mcliesh out ?
my answer is a very selfish one, Yes if the next man is the one i want. if not No
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I'd never sing a song about somebody getting the sack. It's just a bit distasteful. If there's no stark improvement over the next month he does deserve to go though. It's been woeful on the whole and we can't sack the team.
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Whatever it takes, just get McLeish out.
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I personally don't want to see/hear the McLeish out banners and chanting during the game.
God knows there are enough players not giving their all at the moment without them hiding behind the enevitable " he's lost the dressing room" excuse.
Time to back the boys on the pitch, RL already has the fans message with the dwindling gate money.
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He needs to go, I'm not sure I could bring myself to boo at a game. I'm not a season ticket holder so don't and can't afford to put up with the shit soup that is served up every week.
I can completely understand others booing or whatever else. A lot of fans said they didn't want him, a lot gave him some time and it seems a lot can't see any improvement.
Get him out.
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He looked and sounded a broken man against Liverpool. I feel sorry for him. He is clearly out of his depth.
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I don't dislike him, and also feel sorry for him. He's just not up to it.
I've said before I felt sad for him watching him weeping when he took Blues down.
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It's just there's nothing to believe in these days, is there? When MON first came in there was a buzz around the Villa. Oh, how do I miss that feeling? Even when we lost a few games in a row, you just believed we were heading in the right direction. I could accept the current league position, results... IF we had a plan, a manager we could trust in, but right now all hope has left the building ... I'll be watching tomorrow - because it's my drug - but I'm not looking forward to the game itself. And when fans can't be excited to turn up, then there's something wrong. And that's what happened now.
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Unless we get totally humilated and that would be a 4-0 or 5-1 job, then I think it will be the same as against Liverpool, boos at the end but not too much more than that.
The potentially toxic game for McLeish will be Swansea at home as I expect to lose at Stoke and Chelsea and things will get nasty if we don't beat Swansea at home.
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KT and Ozzjim.
It would be hypocritical for me to say that anyone should blindly support the team as I am usually one of the first to complain and often want managers sacked after half a season. On this occasion, I just want to give McLeish more time as I despise player power especially with the wages they are on. Regarding Blackburn, perhaps their fans have a point. It just seemed to me that, whatever the team did, they would want the manager out, which I find ridiculous. My gut feeling will tell me when a managerial change is necessary at Villa Park. Maybe I am just being cantankerous but there are plenty who have never given McLeish a chance. He has never had his name chanted by our fans in a favourable way. That is sad.
I hope we can pull this round but it will need money spending on the team and it is unfair on all of us if that doesn't happen. Years of paying to watch the team and buying merchandise etc should be rewarded. One concern I have is the future generations of Villa fans. Those that stick with us will be as cynical as the rest of us well before their time. No, I am not enjoying it this season, but ganging up on McLeish will solve nothing. Lerner knows we are unhappy and, if he decides to keep his manager, he cannot let him be fed to the wolves. Give us some exciting signings and bring a few smiles back to Villa Park.
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He looked and sounded a broken man against Liverpool. I feel sorry for him. He is clearly out of his depth.
He might walk.
We can then look forward to the board appoint Barry Fry.
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He looked and sounded a broken man against Liverpool. I feel sorry for him. He is clearly out of his depth.
He has totally lost it. The situation with the board and the loss of key players hasn't helped, but he can't motivate the players and some of his tactics are just bizarre. I want him to turn it around, but I don't think he has it in him and clearly, a significant number of fans are determined to make life as difficult for him as they can.
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I like the bloke, i always have done and i suspect the players do as well, but he's done himself no favours with the football he's got us playing. Throw in his track record and where he came from (which should'nt matter) and you have an appointment that should'nt have been made and it's beginning to tell, which is a shame for everyone concerned.
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The best we can hope from AM is to just about keep us up.
Nice guy an all that but he is never going to get us playing decent football. let alone challenge for anything. So let's hope RL smells the coffee and gets rid. If he doesn't then he deserves to be hounded out with no mercy.
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I did not want him and not because of his bluenose connections, but because it was a disaster waiting to happen and we all knew it would end in tears.
It meant a couple more years of, consolidate, experiment and try again.
I am getting older and it is probably my fate to be kept in this endless cycle.
Lerner has to back him and this means he will buy players in Jan, I guess that if they are in the mould of some of the names mentioned, Gibson, etc then it will be like dejavu for Potatoe face at Sunderland.
We survive and he gets another chance next season, halfway through the season the inevitable happens, he leaves and we start again.
As others have said, he seems a genuine guy and I find it hard to have any anger against him unlike my feelings for O,Dreary and for Ellis.
I think that most fans have cut him some slack on the same rationale as me.
Such is the lot of a Villa fan.
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He looked and sounded a broken man against Liverpool. I feel sorry for him. He is clearly out of his depth.
Not sure about out of his depth, i think some of the players are. Oh for a midfield now of Milner Barry Ash and Downing. It's the board that let them go for whatever reason, not the manager.
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I quite liked the chorus of "what the fuck is going on?" on sunday. More of that please.
That seemed a reasonable question really.
Even the players (Dunne for one) were throwing their arms up in frustration
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I don't dislike the man or care at all where he came from. The football is terrible, and we are sliding down the league, no doubt about it. We've been bad in the past, but I've rarely seen so little creativity, while the one aspect you would have expected to improve, defending, is possibly worse. If McLeish is still in charge in two or three years time I really do worry that we'll be playing our football in the Championship. Time to get rid for me.
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I like the bloke, i always have done and i suspect the players do as well, but he's done himself no favours with the football he's got us playing. Throw in his track record and where he came from (which should'nt matter) and you have an appointment that should'nt have been made and it's beginning to tell, which is a shame for everyone concerned.
re the football he has us playing (and it's not just something he's done with us, look at Blues for the last four years), if we are going to set out to be a mid table side with mid table ambitions, then it's a lot more acceptable if we get some actual entertainment.
You do not need world class players to be able to at least get the fundamentals of the game - pass and move, for example - right. There are teams in this league who play much better football than us, who have far weaker squads.
People will forgive a lot if they think the manager is trying to do the right thing. The problem with McLeish is that, affable type though he is, the general consensus seems to be that he isn't.
I wonder how many of us with tickets for tomorrow are actually looking forward to it? I know I'm not. It isn't meant to be that way.
My main concern is that, actually, Randy and Faulkner are blissfully unaware of all this, and look at the table and think everything is going pretty well.
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I'm not looking forward to tomorrow. There's a part of me that's tempted not to go.
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I would like to take issue with these type of excuses for not releiving AM of his duties...
I honestly think Randy will let us get relegated before sacking AM, he just won't sack him, he would look such an idiot.
Personally I dont think he would look an idiot...he would look like an owner who has admitted that he made a mistake and I would have a great deal more respect for the man.
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I have a few people actually say to me ' I though he would do alright for you , but hes actually out of his depth and its the worse football I think Ive ever seen Villa play '
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I quite liked the chorus of "what the fuck is going on?" on sunday. More of that please.
That seemed a reasonable question really.
Even the players (Dunne for one) were throwing their arms up in frustration
I don't want us to be singing negative stuff. I want us playing well and trying to win.
Dunne's reaction on Sunday said it all, for the fans as well as a few players, some who seem to be doing a half decent job but others who either couldn't give a fuck or are being very badly managed.
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Yes were 10th but we are fucking shite, I hate watching my team at the minute, I've not been down since bolton in the cup and I won't because its not enjoyable and its a waste of my hard earned money.
Why wait till were in the bottom 3 to protest? Flipping well do it now, let's protest against Randy while were at it because he's clearly given up
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Yes were 10th but we are fucking shite, I hate watching my team at the minute, I've not been down since bolton in the cup and I won't because its not enjoyable and its a waste of my hard earned money.
Why wait till were in the bottom 3 to protest? Flipping well do it now, let's protest against Randy while were at it because he's clearly given up
Well said.
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He looked and sounded a broken man against Liverpool. I feel sorry for him. He is clearly out of his depth.
That was my impression too and if he is exhibiting a defeatist attitude, how will that look to the players. He seems almost frozen by fear, a fear of not losing, a fear that the moment we lose the pressure is ratcheted up one notch further.
I've said it before and will say it again, we can protest and protest till we are blue in the face, but the board are not going to budge on this one, because they clearly saw and still see something in him that we do not. If anyone thinks that a multi-millionaire is going to back down after making a controversial and clearly personal managerial choice because we don't like it, then you are sadly deluded.
The only option that we have as fans is to simply not go and even then there will still be enough season ticket holders and devotees to ensure that the club ticks over nicely whilst not pulling up trees.
Oh and one final negative thought, I've heard plenty about the '12th man' and getting behind the team, but does anyone truly believe it is going to make that much of a difference to the current set of players that we have. I can't see a rousing Holte End tune making much of a difference to our disinterested and poorly organised lot......... Sorry, but its all rather hopeless right now.
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Its alright protesting but will Lerner actually notice .
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"10th in the league table" is also a very poor excuse. I said a few weeks ago that the table doesnt show the full story and a few more losses over the next few weeks will give a more realistic look to our league position. Similarly, if we pick up a few points then it will continue to not look as bad as it is, and any protests will look futile in the eyes of the media and a section of our own support.
Look at our results and how close we are to 15th place...relegation wont happen because we're fortunate to have 3 worse teams than us this season, but just about staying up because other teams are worse than us isnt and should never be acceptable for Aston Villa.
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Its alright protesting but will Lerner actually notice .
Get the press to notice then he will.
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Yes, I don't want McCleish, but protests, banners and singing during the game will just drain any confidence the lads have left. Sing our hearts out FOR THE VILLA, and something good MIGHT just happen.
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If we get relegated the spin Faulkner will put on it is that we have the best manager to get us back into the Premiership. The wages bill stripped down to the bare bones, the parachute money and a set of numbers which can be crunched to show that we can survive on average crowds of 25,000 will be all that matters.
The quality of the football, the morale of the fans, the quality of the players will be irrelevant because the books will balance.
The only thing which is going to blow out McLeish is the sale of the club to somebody for whom the money is a secondary consideration. Simple as that.
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May be a bit of humour would be a better form of protest in these dark times...
"We're so shit its unbelievable"
"We're going down with the Bue Scum, down with the Blue Scum"
"Theres only one Aston Villa, one Aston Villa, we used to be good, but now we're shit, walking in a Villa wonderland"
"Championship, Championship...we're all pissed up and going to the Championship"
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Assuming we have another negative line up, piss poor tactics, no heart and Emile Heskey against Arsenal with the all too bleeding predictable loss as well as played off the park.
Is it time yet to take some action against the manager and regretably the board who inconcievably chose him?
Already small pockets of anti AM songs have started - how long before this grows and grows to a point where RL has to at the very least come out and do / say something
Its like watching our club go through a painful death at the moment.
Is it time to make our opinions count?
I don't think Mr. Lerner will listen to the fans even if we did boo or chant against AM. Again mirroring a similar post in another thread he has endured plenty of protests and on line petitions for him to go from the Cleveland Brown fans which he has ignored and continued on his own merry way. He is going to give AM at least 2 seasons IMO and back him because he believes he is the right man to deliver his plan for the Villa.
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Anyway, who is this McCleish fella? Our manager is McLeish.
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The last 54 prem games
Hes won 12 matches
Blackburn H
Blackpool H / A
Chelsea H
Westham A
Stoke H
Bolton H
Sunderland H
Blackburn H
Wigan H
Bolton A
Norwich H
That is shocking .
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I am concerned about the performances and results along with everyone else but I'm also concerned with how we are perceived by the media and other fans. Most journalists and keen football fans over 25 would probably remember we weren't keen on John Gregory despite doing reasonably well, we turned on Sir Graham, hated O'Leary (although I think they would let us have that one), moaned about MON despite doing well under him, moaned about GH pretty much from the start and raged about AM even before the start. Now we are throwing major tantrums when we are in a mid table position. We all knew December would be tough. I think we are starting to look silly and should try and hold our collective nerve a bit better.
sums up my views. plenty wanting mon out round by me, houllier too. i agreed with the dol sacking as he had 3 years, but alot of vitriol was thrown at taylor mk11 without people having a look at the situation and using their noggin first.
i dont think the football is great, i aint looking forward to games but we still need to back the team during the game!
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If being 10th in the league is enough for some then obviously, for those people, everything is hunky dory.
However, the league position does not even begin to tell the story.
If we are still 10th after the Swansea game then yes, we will have to admit that things are not as bad as we make out.
I don't think we'll be 10th after Swansea.
As for McLeish, please don't feel sorry for him.
He is in a job that is far too big for him, but he wanted it.
He's picking up his huge wedge, and whenever he goes, which is inevitable, he will get a fucking big payoff, take some 'down time' and then rack up at some other club daft enough to give him a job.
And after that has happened, he won't give a flying fuck about whatever legacy he has left at the club, be it good or bad.
So please, don' feel sorry for him, he doesn't need it.
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The last 54 prem games
Hes won 12 matches
Blackburn H
Blackpool H / A
Chelsea H
Westham A
Stoke H
Bolton H
Sunderland H
Blackburn H
Wigan H
Bolton A
Norwich H
That is shocking .
And villa paid compensation to the scum, embarrassing.
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£3 million, I believe.
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Yes, I don't want McCleish, but protests, banners and singing during the game will just drain any confidence the lads have left. Sing our hearts out FOR THE VILLA, and something good MIGHT just happen.
Thought the Holte was in good voice at the start of the game on Sunday.
But going 2 down, predictably from set pieces, inside 15 minutes and playing as woefully as we did throughout the rest of the game is not going to inspire singing our hearts out.
I'd like to see some of the players playing their hearts out for their measly 30/40+ K a week and giving us something to sing about!
(That is unless they've got some last minute Christmas shopping to do!)
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The last 54 prem games
Hes won 12 matches
Blackburn H
Blackpool H / A
Chelsea H
Westham A
Stoke H
Bolton H
Sunderland H
Blackburn H
Wigan H
Bolton A
Norwich H
That is shocking .
And villa paid compensation to the scum, embarrassing.
or 13 wins in the last 64 games , is another way of looking at it
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If you're booing tomorrow or protesting even, make it loud chaps. It'll take some hearing to be heard in America
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If you're booing tomorrow or protesting even, make it loud chaps. It'll take some hearing to be heard in America
If that's a reference to the owner's whereabouts, he's over here.
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If you're booing tomorrow or protesting even, make it loud chaps. It'll take some hearing to be heard in America
If that's a reference to the owner's whereabouts, he's over here.
Taking in the match, or just a nose around the German market?
joke
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If you're booing tomorrow or protesting even, make it loud chaps. It'll take some hearing to be heard in America
If that's a reference to the owner's whereabouts, he's over here.
Taking in the match, or just a nose around the German market?
joke
Shopping in Cambridge.
joke?
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I really cannot understand why owners who were so dead set on popularity as well as having good intentions at the start have got the PR and important appointments so catastrophically wrong in the last couple of years. If you were highlighting a case study as an Insolvency Practitioner as a way to appallingly manage a business model you would go some way to beating ours.
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If you're booing tomorrow or protesting even, make it loud chaps. It'll take some hearing to be heard in America
If that's a reference to the owner's whereabouts, he's over here.
Taking in the match, or just a nose around the German market?
joke
No he is going to take in a ball game or it might have been a ball gown, I wasn't really listening too well.
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It feels like the Villa under McLeish is similar to Venglos.
Likeable manager but way way out of his depth. I feel sorry for him, he has been dealt a shit hand with expectations in same way Venglos was expected to come in and win the league after finishing second.
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Lerner won't sack Eck, and definitely won't do so when we are 10th in the league no matter how poor the football is. By sacking him he'd be admitting he dropped a huge bollock in the first place and he won't do that any day soon. Randy's ginger mate is quiet these days isn't he?
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I reckon we'll finish low but stay up. Its next season i fear we won't. McLeish isn't going to suddenly become a good manager. He must be replaced at the end of the season.
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"10th in the league table" is also a very poor excuse. I said a few weeks ago that the table doesnt show the full story and a few more losses over the next few weeks will give a more realistic look to our league position. Similarly, if we pick up a few points then it will continue to not look as bad as it is, and any protests will look futile in the eyes of the media and a section of our own support.
Eh?
In a roundabout way you are actually saying you want us not to pick up points so our position can look as bad as you want it to be so you can be proven correct? Is that it?
Surely if we pick up points over the next few games then we actually aren't as bad as you are making out? Shit to watch, yes, but actually the mid-table side I suspect us to be and I suspect is where we will finish.
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In the same way Stoke will probably finish midtable, and with about as much entertainment in the meantime, too.
I pity anyone who actually wants us to lose, though.
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Protests are just a means of venting frustration, I doubt they will make much difference to Lerner. What will have an impact is falling attendances.
I can't be arsed to go tomorrow and I've got a season ticket, didn't bother with the Man Utd game either. If I don't go when my ticket is right there in my wallet I can't imagine what the situation will do to our more casual support.
If I did have a banner I'd save it for when we're in the bottom 6 in January and it would just say 'You should have listened to us Randy.'
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We are currently mid table but this apparently is not a true reflection for some fans of our performances. Surely the league table is the only reflection of our performances/results?
Would we also be able to reverse that logic if we were in the relegation zone and say it'll be fine?
I am no McLeish fan and his style of football is bloody awful from what I have seen thus far but now is the time to get behind the team and stand united
Talk of protests etc is a) not helpful b) a tad premature and c) sadly not really going to make a difference anyway
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We are currently mid table but this apparently is not a true reflection for some fans of our performances. Surely the league table is the only reflection of our performances/results?
Would we also be able to reverse that logic if we were in the relegation zone and say it'll be fine?
I am no McLeish fan and his style of football is bloody awful from what I have seen thus far but now is the time to get behind the team and stand united
Talk of protests etc is a) not helpful b) a tad premature and c) sadly not really going to make a difference anyway
I agree on a) and c) but...
The league table is misleading because it depends on the games you have played. If we're top 10 having played all the other 19 teams in the league I will change my tune. The general assumption being made by most Villa fans at the moment is that we will lose the next three games and then the table will look a little less positive. I hope we turn out to be wrong.
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In the same way Stoke will probably finish midtable, and with about as much entertainment in the meantime, too.
I pity anyone who actually wants us to lose, though.
Exactly, I don't like the way we play, although I realise we have lost all our creativity, which isn't an excuse for not giving it a bloody good go by the way!
But, anyone hoping we don't pick up points over the next few games in some misguided attempt to hope McLeish gets sacked, or even bloody worse in my opinion, in the hope they are proved right in their internet rantings wants a fucking big kick right in the scrotum.
For fucks sake you are all Villa fans, yes? You want us to win every game, no? McLeish still having a job is surely a small (Heath) price to pay if we are winning?
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"10th in the league table" is also a very poor excuse. I said a few weeks ago that the table doesnt show the full story and a few more losses over the next few weeks will give a more realistic look to our league position. Similarly, if we pick up a few points then it will continue to not look as bad as it is, and any protests will look futile in the eyes of the media and a section of our own support.
Eh?
In a roundabout way you are actually saying you want us not to pick up points so our position can look as bad as you want it to be so you can be proven correct? Is that it?
Surely if we pick up points over the next few games then we actually aren't as bad as you are making out? Shit to watch, yes, but actually the mid-table side I suspect us to be and I suspect is where we will finish.
I can see how you think thats what I'm saying, but under no circumstances would I ever want us to lose. I just think that we will lose the next few games, and this certainly isnt about my opinion being proved right or wrong...in fact, I'd love for AM to be prove us all wrong but the overwhelming fact is that the club is in a terrible mess with a crap manager and a squad full of average to crap players.
The truly concerning thing for me is whether or not another manager could do any better results wise with the current squad. To think that in such a short space of time we've gone from a club needing a couple of decent signings to push into Europe, to a club that is struggling on and off the pitch. How Randy and co have managed to do this beggers belief.
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I'd rather just stop watching Villa than get to the point where I hope we lose.
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It does piss me off when fans say just get behind the team... have you seen the lack of style, the negativity, the anti football and lack of passion from us! nobody in their right mind would applaud the rubbish were being served.
People are paying a lot of money on tickets travel and time in cold and wet conditions and even though we were never of the mindset we were going to play great football the least we expected from a McLeish team is a bit of grit and determination and were not even getting that.
I would like too think if we actually have a go at teams like spurs, man utd , Liverpool and the likes the fans would respond accordingly but if we turn in such lackluster performances im afraid fans are going to be pissed off!
So far the bigger teams that have played Villa have not even had to try too hard to beat us and its becoming embarrassing. For example the 2nd half against Liverpool you would have thought McLeish would have got into the players had them fired up and we would have come out pumped up giving it a go, what actually happened was Liverpool had a unmarked header at goal and a shot that hit the post!
I dont actually boo during the game but I cant blame anybody that does and i dont see why they should sit back and let our Team be ruined by poor management at all levels
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But KRS you said:
"Similarly, if we pick up a few points then it will continue to not look as bad as it is"
I don't get this, if we pick up a few points then surely it will be better than it is? No? It will mean that we aren't the utterly abject mess that you and many others are saying we are. Yes?
It's almost as if you don't want us to pick up those points so you can: a) be proven right and b) get McLeish out.
We are what we are just now, a mid-table team in a state of flux because of circumstances off the field beyond our control, don't go wishing the worst on us so that you can say 'I told you so'.
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I think if we are 10th, we deserve to be 10th, no matter who we've played. Having said that, if in three games time, we are in the bottom six, that also will be a fair reflection of our level.
I think it's a bit premature to protest when we are 10th, though. In a funny way, the "rubbish" teams play better at the beginning of the season where the good teams start to click around now, so you could argue McLeish has not had that easy a fixture list.
Are we really doing that badly compared to last season? What position were we in over Xmas last year? Let's not forget that whatever position we were it was with the help of Young and Downing.
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No you cant sack a manager when we're 10th and it would be unfair to sack a manager after only 16 games. The 2 times a team can be judged is half way through the season once all teams have played each other once, and at the end of the season...these both show relative and fair performance in the league table. It just so happens that the first judgement point comes after our next 3 games against Arsenal, Stoke and Chelsea. Where will we be after those 3 games will be a fair reflection in the league table whatever the results of our next 3 games, and then we can judge a little more fairly.
But KRS you said:
"Similarly, if we pick up a few points then it will continue to not look as bad as it is"
I don't get this, if we pick up a few points then surely it will be better than it is? No? It will mean that we aren't the utterly abject mess that you and many others are saying we are. Yes?
It's almost as if you don't want us to pick up those points so you can: a) be proven right and b) get McLeish out.
We are what we are just now, a mid-table team in a state of flux because of circumstances off the field beyond our control, don't go wishing the worst on us so that you can say 'I told you so'.
You're welcome to look through tinted glasses at our performances and results, and welcome to interpret my posts however you like, but in both cases you'd be wrong. You cant get away from the fact that after 16 games, the only teams we have beat this season are Bolton, Norwich, Wigan and Blackburn, and we struggle to have more than a handful of shots on goal and concede possession far too easily.
Obviously I think AM is out of his depth and hes not good enough, but I dont want us to lose games to prove a point. Understand Dave?
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The trouble is, basically what many are saying is its crap and we hate it, but don't want to upset the 11 millionaires on the pitch while they kick a ball about on the back of the fans love for football.... well.... how utterly British. Lets all have a cup of tea while we are at it, and pat Eck on the back for being a jolly nice chap. He is, and I would love to spend time chatting to him, but having given him 15 games - he has proved every bit as bad as everyone made out. Also, the defeated Eck turned up at the end of March for Blues, and was totally deflated every week to the point he hardly got out the dugout towards the lst few games at Blues according to a couple of season ticket holders I know. He is starting to mirror that here.
On the losing thing, I want Villa to win every game. However, if we are going to lose, I would prefer we ship 6 or 7 and the whole things comes to a head and the fans call for his head than it to rumble on, shit performance after shit performance - and stats of 14 wins in 64 games shows that 4 out of 5 are going to be shit, to be followed by but he is a nice bloke and the poor lads might be drained of confidence if we call for his head. His job is to instill confidence and purpose, their job is to entertain the crowd and get them off their seat, to give them a reason to shout and support. The fans need to find their voice, and ram it home that it is not acceptable, and it will not be tolerated.
This is Aston Villa, and we deserve a whole lot better than this.
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Very well said ozzjim *clappy thing*
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Yep, bang on Mr ozzjim.
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Just done the predictor covering the next 3 games...we will be 12th-14th depending on the results of other games. Worst case scenario is 15th if Sunderland pick up more points than expected.
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Just done the predictor covering the next 3 games...we will be 12th-14th depending on the results of other games. Worst case scenario is 15th if Sunderland pick up more points than expected.
You're welcome to look through tinted glasses at our performances and results,
What are you wearing then? Blinkers?
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Facebook groups and banners are symptoms of the poxy X Factor Britain we live in. Everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion and if something isn't done about it there and then, it's toys out of the pram time.
Banners make Villa look cheap and the more I hear from the boors who purport to follow our club, the more I want McLeish to stay and succeed.
If you want to see yourselves on television waving your bedsheets, making twats of yourself then go ahead but as far as I'm concerned you're no better than the shower of shite down the road. You are an embarrassment to the glorious name of Aston Villa.
Get a fucking grip and support the team.
Right on brother!
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£3 million, I believe.
On the brightside, it's probably keeping the recievers out of St Andrews.
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I'm not sure where this sympathy for McLeish lies. As a pretty much broke football club we spent 3m to get him from Birmingham and he and his clown sidekick are probably drawing that again in wages from the club. He is paid to deliver but instead fans are deserting the club in their droves. I hate this oh we will appear small time if the supporters protest, nonsense. It is Aston Villa football club. Supporters from a load of different clubs cant get over how shit we are. Every club would protest if they were playing the football we are playing and with the way the club is heading.
McLeish is a joke frankly but unless serious changes are made at board level replacing the manager wont improve things too much. Seeing as how Lerner will be gracing Villa Park with his presence for the Arsenal game, I think protests should be focused on him.
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Got to say Brontebilly and Ozzjim are both spot on with their comments
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be the twelth man.... remember this? Where's it gone?
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be the twelth man.... remember this? Where's it gone?
He's at home spray painting his Mum's bedsheets.
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I used to have as a tag line "They have a different agenda than us" it was a quote from Eck after we beat the dog shit 5-1 at our place. I was proud that day as it was a clear distinction between them and us - even their manager re affirmed it.
I know that the noses were furious that he made that comment.
Now we are beaten by "giants" like Liverpool (who have not won anything for almost as long as us)
I wonder what Arsenal will be - colusses?
I know all football fans can get their heads up their arses about where they are in the pecking order but if the manager is now condsidering us as no bodies and we dont have the right to be on the same pitch as some teams then what the hell do the players think when they take the field.
Go back to the GH days - he had one of the worst injury set backs i have ever known in my time supporting the villa yet we still tried to play the game the right way. I remember seeing the line up against United and thinking "oh shit" we had a bunch of kids that went out there chests out, heads held high and for 60 minutes ran the fuckers ragged - even Fergiscum said they should have been 6-0 down. No ultimately the result was not great - technically we threw a 2-0 lead away at home - but i remember leaving the ground very proud that my team full of kids had really gave to United
Thats the difference between motivating players and coaching and our boring safety first approach and moaning about lack of players. I grant you losing the basis of the English midfield set up is going to hurt and that falls firmly at lerners door - but the sorry excuse for the shambles we see each game is no ones fault but the managers, whatever team we put out still will have at least 6/7 international players and yet our play and organisation is shocking
And just to reiterate it was all too easy for the media to say our protests were because of where he came from - rubbish it was based on his record for playing dull, unimaginative, cowardly football
And we have got exactly that
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I'm not sure where this sympathy for McLeish lies. As a pretty much broke football club we spent 3m to get him from Birmingham and he and his clown sidekick are probably drawing that again in wages from the club. He is paid to deliver but instead fans are deserting the club in their droves. I hate this oh we will appear small time if the supporters protest, nonsense. It is Aston Villa football club. Supporters from a load of different clubs cant get over how shit we are. Every club would protest if they were playing the football we are playing and with the way the club is heading.
McLeish is a joke frankly but unless serious changes are made at board level replacing the manager wont improve things too much. Seeing as how Lerner will be gracing Villa Park with his presence for the Arsenal game, I think protests should be focused on him.
I can agree to the other fans can't understand how shit we are. I played footy on Mon eve, players who support other clubs, said how bad we are, with the players we have they couldn't understand it - this was seeing us on TV Sunday.
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be the twelth man.... remember this? Where's it gone?
We need 11 working men before we can have 12
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Seeing as how Lerner will be gracing Villa Park with his presence for the Arsenal game, I think protests should be focused on him.
I wouldn't say they are needed, personally. The state of the club will be played right in front of his face.
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Good post Ozz
I dont expect Villa to win every game , I have never done since my first game .
But at least I would like to see the players try and be interested and try and entertain me at least a little bit .
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be the twelth man.... remember this? Where's it gone?
the same place as 'Bright future'
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Just done the predictor covering the next 3 games...we will be 12th-14th depending on the results of other games. Worst case scenario is 15th if Sunderland pick up more points than expected.
You're welcome to look through tinted glasses at our performances and results,
What are you wearing then? Blinkers?
Nope...I'm not even wearing shades! How about you try the predictor yourself and see what positions you come up?
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Good post Ozz
I dont expect Villa to win every game , I have never done since my first game .
But at least I would like to see the players try and be interested and try and entertain me at least a little bit .
Yep this, we know football has gone crazy and we cant compete with United, Chelsea, City financially but its not an excuse to go into games against united, Liverpool and Spurs with a defeatist attitude!
All fans want is passion pride and commitment If Villa players show it then the fans respond accordingly
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Please get behind the team tonight at least gabby will be playing!
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Randy Lerner are you listening, to the song we're singing, you're taking us down, with this bluenose clown, so both get the fuck out of town....
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All fans want is passion pride and commitment If Villa players show it then the fans respond accordingly
Indeed. If Hutton had gone through Downing last week, they would have been shouting 'encore'.
A good barometer of crowd satisfaction was when the old wooden seats in the Trinity used to rumble. An indicator of displeasure was the slow hand clap. Where did that go?
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For those who want McLeish out, who REALISTICALLY is going to replace him? Remember a relative nobody like Roberto Martinez wasn't even interested in being interviewed!
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For those who want McLeish out, who REALISTICALLY is going to replace him? Remember a relative nobody like Roberto Martinez wasn't even interested in being interviewed!
Cue list of names of 'successful' managers:
Hughton
Holloway
Moyes
Pulis
McClaren
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For those who want McLeish out, who REALISTICALLY is going to replace him? Remember a relative nobody like Roberto Martinez wasn't even interested in being interviewed!
Who cares? The natives are restless, we must make a sacrifice.
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For those who want McLeish out, who REALISTICALLY is going to replace him? Remember a relative nobody like Roberto Martinez wasn't even interested in being interviewed!
Who cares? The natives are restless, we must make a sacrifice.
McLeish is a terrible manager who should never have been appointed. His tenure is turning out exactly as 99.9% of people thought it would, so you can't blame people for wanting a poor manager who nobody wanted in the first place, who is serving up awful football to be dispensed with.
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It will kick off soon enough. The ABAM brigade have been biding their time since the start of the season. They couldn't get him out then because a)Lerner would have looked a plonker if he'd sacked a manager before he'd had a game and b) because their argument against AM wasn't based on anything logical, but performances and results are rapidly changing that.
He's onto a loser basically. Unfairly, he'd have to finish at least the same position as last season with a crappier squad to survive longer than May. And even if he managed that, it would all start again next season as soon as we had a few bad results
If we do end up in the 15th-16th area of the league come January then Lerner will have to decide whether to try and keep him on till the summer against the fan's wishes and then quietly let him go or make a switch in January. An unpleasant decision for Lerner to make either way, but seeing its totally his own fault, i haven't much sympathy for him.
Perfect summing up of things gnasher!
The argument against McLeish wasn't based on anything logical???????????????
Track record is perfectly logical to me and even the blind can see that now surely.
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For those who want McLeish out, who REALISTICALLY is going to replace him? Remember a relative nobody like Roberto Martinez wasn't even interested in being interviewed!
Who cares? The natives are restless, we must make a sacrifice.
McLeish is a terrible manager who should never have been appointed. His tenure is turning out exactly as 99.9% of people thought it would, so you can't blame people for wanting a poor manager who nobody wanted in the first place, who is serving up awful football to be dispensed with.
Yeah, I agree, but a) Who the fuck would come in and b) our problems are bigger than changing the manager.
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Alot of people could see this when McLeish was appointed. We had the big debate, decided we support "The Villa" and to get behind the team and give McLeish a chance. Worryingly all is turning out as expected. How long do you support the bloke for? I really wonder what happens in training and would love to hear what Sid Cowans makes of it all. I'm left just shaking my head watching Villa this season.
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I’d love to know who is going to turn around this sinking ship? It’s all very well protesting but let’s just say that Lerner has some moment of clarity and pulls the trigger. Who’s going to take over a team with a propensity to fire managers and with a squad full of aging nobodies, Championship quality kids and with the depth of an episode of Desperate Scousewives.
The problems at the club go way beyond McLeish and he just happens to be the poor fall guy left running the team when the board have decided to slash and burn to cut costs. Do you honestly think that McLaren, Martinez, Coyle or Hughes would do any better?
The only thing we as fans can do right now is cry to create some kind of atmosphere that makes attending VP less of a chore, something that worked effectively one season ago when these very debates were raging about Houllier. Maybe the players might respond, probably they won’t but paying your money to sit there in silence, bored s**tless seems a little odd to me.
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We have half decent players that seem unable to put two passes together. Alot of this has to be down to the manager. The playing side of things is shambolic. There is no confidence, no desire, no expression etc etc. Any of the names mentioned would improve the situation but for me I would put Sid Cowans in charge. He may be too nice who knows but he would have them trying to play football how football should be played.
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There is zero confidence within the players at this time. They’re afraid.
Creating a negative atmosphere will not help a performance turn up.
If you’re going to B6 tonight, then get behind the side come what may, save all the negativity and whinging for your family Christmas lunch. Be positive, be encouraging, just give it a go. It will be a cathartic experience.
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Alot of people could see this when McLeish was appointed. We had the big debate, decided we support "The Villa" and to get behind the team and give McLeish a chance. Worryingly all is turning out as expected. How long do you support the bloke for? I really wonder what happens in training and would love to hear what Sid Cowans makes of it all. I'm left just shaking my head watching Villa this season.
How long? You haven't even given him half a season
The period of grace a manager receives is getting shorter and shorter. At this rate the next bloke might get a week if he's lucky.
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Regarding a potential managerial change at this stage, it didn't do Liverpool much harm last season. It wasn't working out and they took action. I'd like nothing better than McCleish to turn the mess around, but I fear that he's just not up for it. It's all very well taking about 'X-Factor' culture and the clamour for instant success, but you only have to look at McCleish's demenour to realise that he's suffering with no sign of recovery. Inevitable defeats like tonight and at Chelsea, make the home game against Swansea, the most important of the season. I can't see us getting anything at Stoke either. 1 or zero points in the next 3 puts us in some trouble I think.
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He has not won the fans over with his football (Ex Small Heath does not help), nobody really wanted him in the first place and we are playing some dire football. If RL is going to change then he has to do it soon (by start of Jan12) and back his new manager in the transfer window. I am not sure RL knows football that well to make a decent choice so fear we are stuck with AMC until the end of the season and a relegation battle is on the cards.
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McLeish has to have until the end of the season, but things have to change, some heads need knocking together. Some players need to change their attitude and focus properly. Some players, like Heskey need fucking off, some players like Hutton and Collins, need dropping for a bit, let's make them buck up their ideas till they actually deserve to play. We need to focus the side around talent like Herd, Clark, Albrighton, Agbonlahor, Bannan and even N'Zogbia.
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In a funny way, the "rubbish" teams play better at the beginning of the season where the good teams start to click around now, so you could argue McLeish has not had that easy a fixture list.
That has to be the biggest load of tripe I have ever heard ...... unbelievable!
We have had the easiest start to a season for many a year. I for one expected to be where newcastle were a couple of games ago at least.
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Alot of people could see this when McLeish was appointed. We had the big debate, decided we support "The Villa" and to get behind the team and give McLeish a chance. Worryingly all is turning out as expected. How long do you support the bloke for? I really wonder what happens in training and would love to hear what Sid Cowans makes of it all. I'm left just shaking my head watching Villa this season.
How long? You haven't even given him half a season
The period of grace a manager receives is getting shorter and shorter. At this rate the next bloke might get a week if he's lucky.
I'd be tempted to give him longer if he hadn't demonstrated every single thing I was worried about in him, in spades, since the start of the season.
It's clearly not going to work out with him. This is what he does, this is his way of playing football, and I don't like it.
Call it impatience if you like, but hey, that's my opinion. I was prepared to give Houllier time because I thought he was aiming for the right thing. I don't think McLeish is. That's the difference
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How long? You haven't even given him half a season
The period of grace a manager receives is getting shorter and shorter. At this rate the next bloke might get a week if he's lucky.
Alex Ferguson aside, name another manager that has been successful because they've had ages to get things right. It doesn't happen. Successful managers come in and do well. Simple as. Clubs do well pretty quickly when they appoint successful managers. They don't need time.
What happened at Chelsea when Hiddink came in? What happened at Inter when Mourinho got appointed? What happened to us at the end of the 80s when Sir Graham got appointed?
On the flip side, Arsene's record gets steadily worse at Arsenal.
McLeish's record was plain to see for everyone before he was appointed. With that starting point he had to be successful, quickly to justify the decision. He hasn't been and the simple fact is he's won 25% of games despite us playing some shocking opposition.
We've got an average team and squad so shouldn't get relegated. So let's get someone in who's going to play football we actually want to watch rather than the horrible anti-football that's served up at the moment. Sunday was embarrassing the way that any time one of our players crossed the half-way line with the ball they had no-one in front of them to pass to and no idea what to do next. I'm bored of it and given the ridiculous season ticket price rises we have every year I, and plenty of season ticket holders who sit around me, won't be wasting any more money on them next year unless something changes.
As for who to replace him - it's not easy. But the longer we leave it and the worse things get, the harder it'll be to attract someone decent.
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The period of grace a manager receives is getting shorter and shorter. At this rate the next bloke might get a week if he's lucky.
Agreed, and sometimes the shelf life of a manager is ridiculously short. Then again, sometimes a manager is totally wrong for a club and it's obvious almost from the start. Unless he resigns - or we're relegated (and I'm not convinced he'd go if we're relegated) I can't see McLeish going anywhere but it's perfectly understandable for people to be discussing the manager's future after half a season. Because he was a poor choice from the start and so far, for me, at least, hasn't done anything to change my opinion of how he'd perform at Villa.
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You're comparing apples and oranges, Adam.
McLeish has been given the tools to achieve mid table stability and if that's where we are come the end of the season he'll have done his job.
You're also dong what many others are, ignoring the good things and exaggerating the bad. It's the sort on one eyed, black and white style that doesn't allow any alternative viewpoint and it prevents honest debate.
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Arsene's record gets steadily worse, yet they still qualify for the CL every season and make it to the knockout stages every season, unlike some clubs.
Didn't moyes have a rubbish start at Everton? But he was given time and greatly improved them.
We were rubbish for most of last season but I don't remember threads like this cropping up in the same way for houllier...
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How long? You haven't even given him half a season
The period of grace a manager receives is getting shorter and shorter. At this rate the next bloke might get a week if he's lucky.
Alex Ferguson aside, name another manager that has been successful because they've had ages to get things right.
Howard Kendall. Sir Graham I. A few of our supporters wanted Brian Little sacked in his first close-season.
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Arsene's record gets steadily worse, yet they still qualify for the CL every season and make it to the knockout stages every season, unlike some clubs.
Didn't moyes have a rubbish start at Everton? But he was given time and greatly improved them.
We were rubbish for most of last season but I don't remember threads like this cropping up in the same way for houllier...
Houllier wasn't coming in off the back of two relegations in three seasons. He didn't have a reputation for playing dire football. You can't compare the two situations.
Everytime I see McLeish I have to take a moment to realise he is actually our manager. It's like the alternate 1985 in Back to the Future II, a nightmare scenario that somehow came into existence.
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The club have done sod all to help him though, no statements about what the vision/aim is for the next couple of years, only PF's comments about Europe.
They have hung McLeish out to dry and he probably knew this would be the case and the reason he is getting between £1m and £3m (depending on who you believe) a year.
What this doesn't excuse if the baffling selections and the "we are going out to limit the loss" demeanor.
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McLeish has been given the tools to achieve mid table stability and if that's where we are come the end of the season he'll have done his job.
Well our CEO thinks we should be challenging for Europe.
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Four seasons, four fucking seasons.
Don't any of you stop to think before trotting out the same incorrect line.
1) Relegated in his first half season.
2) Promoted
3) Finidhed 9th, their best in the PL
4) Carling Cup and relegation.
Four seasons.
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Four seasons, four fucking seasons.
Don't any of you stop to think before trotting out the same incorrect line.
1) Relegated in his first half season.
2) Promoted
3) Finidhed 9th, their best in the PL
4) Carling Cup and relegation.
Four seasons.
So still two relegations then. One of which because his team had shot their bolt on the Carling Cup win and thought they could put their feet up after February.
The Blues relegation fight last year was beyond pathetic.
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Or, the version my mate gives that they suffered crucial injuries and after 2 cup runs didn't have the squad strength for the run in.
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My issue with his Small heath record is that after the cup win they fell into a sort of 'seasons over' attitude as they were in a healthy enough league position. As manager it was his job to kick enough arses to snap them out of it and avoid relegation, which he either didn't do or wasn't able to do well enough. We seem to have a similar issue with the whole 'mid table is OK and all we can get', so if we do start slipping can he get us hungry enough to fight our way back?
On the flip side, for 18 months he had them doing as well as I've ever seen - top half and a trophy.
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Four seasons, four fucking seasons.
Don't any of you stop to think before trotting out the same incorrect line.
1) Relegated in his first half season.
2) Promoted
3) Finidhed 9th, their best in the PL
4) Carling Cup and relegation.
Four seasons.
So still two relegations then. One of which because his team had shot their bolt on the Carling Cup win and thought they could put their feet up after February.
The Blues relegation fight last year was beyond pathetic.
Their "performance" on the last day of the season was particularly gutless.
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Houllier wasn't coming in off the back of two relegations in three seasons.
Neither was Mcleish.
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Ok four seasons, but there is still a chasm between his reputation and that of Houllier when he joined us so I stand by the point I was making.
Chris I admire your optimism and I sincerely hope you are proven to be correct in wanting him to be given a chance, but I just can't see him ever being a success here.
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I wonder what all the Houllier haters think about things these days, glad I wasn't one. I bet most would have him back if they could...
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I don't really mind how it's presented - two relegations in three Premier League seasons, or two relegations in four seasons, or even two relegations in two and a half Premier League seasons - McLeish's CV isn't particularly appealing and far away from the track record I thought we'd have been looking for in a manager when we started the process in the summer. The last few months has certainly been a eye-opener for me in terms of how Villa operate.
I recall Blues having one or two injuries in the final quarter of last season (Dann, especially, was a loss) but you'd have been hard-pushed to find many who would have predicted them as relegation fodder in February, or even early April. They really fell away badly, from a seemingly safe position, and McLeish wasn't able to prevent the slide.
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David Cameron should secretly call John Gregory, give him a license to kill with the mission to get his AK47 out of the boot of his car and shoot Alex McLeish.
Mission in the name of the future King of England codenamed 'On His Majestys Sorted Service'.
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I recall Blues having one or two injuries in the final quarter of last season (Dann, especially, was a loss)
Dann is the only one i can think of who was a big loss but they brought in Curtis Davies, Bentley and Martins in the January window.
They should never have gone down on the back of that Cup win.
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I'd say the most worrying thing is that all this negativity becomes a self fulfilling prophecy...
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2 relegations in 4 years is still very, very impressive. Almost as good as finishing 3rd in a two horse race in Scotland.
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OK, for anyone who wants to defend the manager, please explain to me, a simple football fan, what is it EXACTLY that gives you cause for optimism that McLeish is developing a team and a style that bring success.
What green shoots can we grasp hold of that shows that he has a plan. It may be messy, but there is a spark there. There is something being developed that with time and resources will bear fruit.
Some saw that under Houllier, but I'm totally fucked if I can see it under McLeish.
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Getting relegated with SHA is nothing out of the ordinary. They've done it more times than any other club.
Now winning a trophy and finishing in the top half. That be some sort of voodoo there.
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OK, for anyone who wants to defend the manager, please explain to me, a simple football fan, what is it EXACTLY that gives you cause for optimism that McLeish is developing a team and a style that bring success.
What green shoots can we grasp hold of that shows that he has a plan. It may be messy, but there is a spark there. There is something being developed that with time and resources will bear fruit.
Some saw that under Houllier, but I'm totally fucked if I can see it under McLeish.
We've seen sporadic performances of better quality, such as Bolton away, parts of Sunderland away and our attacking play against Wigan, Norwich and Blackburn. I'd also think that give time he'll get the defence right as he does have a reputation as a defensive minded coach.
You may not agree with any of that, but you did ask.
Personally, I'm 50/50 on McLeish right now, so he gets the benefit of the doubt due to the short time he's been here and limited funds he's had to work with.
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You're also dong what many others are, ignoring the good things and exaggerating the bad.
What good things? I'm genuinely struggling with that one.
Do you mean our lack of wins against poor opposition? or may be our inability to create chances? or even the pathetic match stats that show we are weaker than our opponents across the pitch for virtually every game and in some cases only have recorded 1 (yes ONE) shot on target? or may be that I and thousands of others feel genuinely embarrassed as Villa fans after each pathetic performance?
Please explain what good AM has brought to Villa Park.
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You're also dong what many others are, ignoring the good things and exaggerating the bad.
What good things? I'm genuinely struggling with that one.
I think he means keeping a clean sheet at Swansea.
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We've seen sporadic performances of better quality, such as Bolton away, parts of Sunderland away and our attacking play against Wigan, Norwich and Blackburn.
Great! After the millions spent on playing staff and managerial changes, we can proudly say that the team has managed to play a little bit of decent football against the current bottom 4 clubs and a newly promoted team. Halle-fuckin-lujah! Praise the Lord McLeish!
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We've seen sporadic performances of better quality, such as Bolton away, parts of Sunderland away and our attacking play against Wigan, Norwich and Blackburn.
Great! After the millions spent on playing staff and managerial changes, we can proudly say that the team has managed to play a little bit of decent football against the current bottom 4 clubs and a newly promoted team. Halle-fuckin-lujah! Praise the Lord McLeish!
Sarcasm is such an ugly trait.
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What disappoints me is when he was at Blues they had such a good record against the top teams. Certainly in terms of getting at least a point. I know that was mainly based on not conceding a goal but there were occasions when they came from behind and other times when they took the game to the opposition. Man City, Spurs, Man U and Liverpool this season were just no-shows. But he does need to be given more time. And money preferably.
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We've seen sporadic performances of better quality, such as Bolton away, parts of Sunderland away and our attacking play against Wigan, Norwich and Blackburn.
Great! After the millions spent on playing staff and managerial changes, we can proudly say that the team has managed to play a little bit of decent football against the current bottom 4 clubs and a newly promoted team. Halle-fuckin-lujah! Praise the Lord McLeish!
You know, it's ridiculous reactions such as that that lead people like Chris and I to try and redress the balance with some more even handed views.
Don't make the mistake of thinking everyone who isn't slashing their virtual wrists on here thinks things are going well!
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You're also dong what many others are, ignoring the good things and exaggerating the bad.
What good things? I'm genuinely struggling with that one.
Do you mean our lack of wins against poor opposition? or may be our inability to create chances? or even the pathetic match stats that show we are weaker than our opponents across the pitch for virtually every game and in some cases only have recorded 1 (yes ONE) shot on target? or may be that I and thousands of others feel genuinely embarrassed as Villa fans after each pathetic performance?
Please explain what good AM has brought to Villa Park.
No, if you're too lazy or too stupid to work it out for yourself I'm not going to waste my breath going through it again.
His record at Blues wasn't all bad, it was mixed. As my mate said at the time, "every manager gets us relegated at some point, but only one has won us a trophy".
His time here has similarly been mixed and under the circumstances that is only to be expected.
We have to get over the fact that we wre a top 6 club 2 seasons ago, those days and those players have gone and we're now a mid table club scrambling for points like everyone else.
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What disappoints me is when he was at Blues they had such a good record against the top teams. Certainly in terms of getting at least a point. I know that was mainly based on not conceding a goal but there were occasions when they came from behind and other times when they took the game to the opposition. Man City, Spurs, Man U and Liverpool this season were just no-shows. But he does need to be given more time. And money preferably.
That might (note I said might before everyone gets all uppity) be down to having been able to sign players he wanted so he could develop a team. We've been having to mix and match in midfield all season and that's been reflected in the performances.
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We have to get over the fact that we wre a top 6 club 2 seasons ago, those days and those players have gone and we're now a mid table club scrambling for points like everyone else.
I genuinely think that's the best approach to take. Lower expectation considerably, in terms of performance, results and incoming/outgoing transfers, and it helps to find a bit of perspective. I've certainly been viewing Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton and Norwich matches as six-pointers and it's good that we've won those games.
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What disappoints me is when he was at Blues they had such a good record against the top teams. Certainly in terms of getting at least a point. I know that was mainly based on not conceding a goal but there were occasions when they came from behind and other times when they took the game to the opposition. Man City, Spurs, Man U and Liverpool this season were just no-shows. But he does need to be given more time. And money preferably.
That might (note I said might before everyone gets all uppity) be down to having been able to sign players he wanted so he could develop a team. We've been having to mix and match in midfield all season and that's been reflected in the performances.
He had the chance to get a midfielder in,and blew it on a crocked spud.
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I like the bloke, i liked the bloke when he was at Blues but you cannot escape the facts that his win ratio is something akin to 14 wins in 64 premier games - that is relegation form staring at us in the face.
As a poster above said under GH there were many things that were wrong - mainly PR on his behalf but and it is a huge BUT there were the signs that football was coming back to VP - i for one was really looking forward to the close season where he would have obviously shipped out the wasters and brought in some continental talent. Cabaye was muted early doors and he has been great to watch for Newcastle, i think we would have seen a lot more of Jean II as well, a footballing MF who needed time to adjust to the pace of the prem - yet this numpty shipped him out ASAP.
You could see what GH wanted to do and there were signs the message was getting through. I am sorry but i just cannot see where AM is going to go with this - i cannot see him changing his style of play or player aquisistion
And that is the biggest problem of all
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Alot of people could see this when McLeish was appointed. We had the big debate, decided we support "The Villa" and to get behind the team and give McLeish a chance. Worryingly all is turning out as expected. How long do you support the bloke for? I really wonder what happens in training and would love to hear what Sid Cowans makes of it all. I'm left just shaking my head watching Villa this season.
How long? You haven't even given him half a season
The period of grace a manager receives is getting shorter and shorter. At this rate the next bloke might get a week if he's lucky.
This is based on the shambles on the football field. We new what to expect and that is what has been delivered. No great shock in that, the worry is what can we see developing? He and the team look as lost as lost can be. N'Zogs free kick into the box which any one of 5 Liverpool players could have cleared and not one Villa player was within ten yards sums it all up for me. Totally leaderless and don't they look it.
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He had the chance to get a midfielder in,and blew it on a crocked spud.
So which loan midfieler would you have got in with what we had to spend fee and wages wise?
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Things were a mess when Graham Taylor came in agreed, but he gave us confidence. I was amazed what he did with some pretty average players, the kind of feeling you don't get from McLeish.
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He had the chance to get a midfielder in,and blew it on a crocked spud.
So which loan midfieler would you have got in with what we had to spend fee and wages wise?
we let a midfielder go out on loan who would of given us a lot more.
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He had the chance to get a midfielder in,and blew it on a crocked spud.
So which loan midfieler would you have got in with what we had to spend fee and wages wise?
we let a midfielder go out on loan who would of given us a lot more.
If you mean Gardner then that wasn't the point you made nor the answer, as we would only have had one experienced midfielder on our books, should we exclude Ireland.
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No,GM II.
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Things were a mess when Graham Taylor came in agreed, but he gave us confidence. I was amazed what he did with some pretty average players, the kind of feeling you don't get from McLeish.
We only just stayed up in our first top flight season under Sir Graham and had a bad start to the following season including losing at home to QPR and a nearly forty year old Trevor Francis hat-trick. Maybe we should have had some banners and protests at the Derby game that followed. Or maybe it was a good idea to keep calm and see how the season panned out.
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Much seems to be made of McCleish's League Cup win at Birmingham. Whilst winning it is an achievement of sorts, they only had to beat two half decent teams throughout their cup run, us and Arsenal reserves. Its harked as some kind of monumental achievement and a stamp of McCleish's ability when it was more due to a piss easy run of games and a shite Arsenal keeper
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No,GM II.
Not sure I agree he would have given us a lot more. GH signed him and didn't play him much. Then neither did Mcallister, AM obviously didn't fancy him either and he's not been playing regularly in Greece either.
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Things were a mess when Graham Taylor came in agreed, but he gave us confidence. I was amazed what he did with some pretty average players, the kind of feeling you don't get from McLeish.
We only just stayed up in our first top flight season under Sir Graham and had a bad start to the following season including losing at home to QPR and a nearly forty year old Trevor Francis hat-trick. Maybe we should have had some banners and protests at the Derby game that followed. Or maybe it was a good idea to keep calm and see how the season panned out.
Did you not get a different feel under GT because I did. Not everything was a bed of roses agreed but it did seem 1 step back and 2 forward. I feel the McLeish thing is totally different.
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Villa have lost too many midfielders over the last couple of years and not replaced them properly, so we're bound to have been weakened in that area. But I don't think we can use Jenas as a stick to beat McLeish with; he's a decent player and the injury was a bit unlucky. He could have been a decent signing.
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Much seems to be made of McCleish's League Cup win at Birmingham. Whilst winning it is an achievement of sorts, they only had to beat two half decent teams throughout their cup run, us and Arsenal reserves. Its harked as some kind of monumental achievement and a stamp of McCleish's ability when it was more due to a piss easy run of games and a shite Arsenal keeper
I certainly don't remember many on here hailing it as an amazing achievement at the time.
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Much seems to be made of McCleish's League Cup win at Birmingham. Whilst winning it is an achievement of sorts, they only had to beat two half decent teams throughout their cup run, us and Arsenal reserves. Its harked as some kind of monumental achievement and a stamp of McCleish's ability when it was more due to a piss easy run of games and a shite Arsenal keeper
Not sure I'd class us a good side last year!
But I see the point as it was a lucky goal that beat both us and Arsenal.
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Much seems to be made of McCleish's League Cup win at Birmingham. Whilst winning it is an achievement of sorts, they only had to beat two half decent teams throughout their cup run, us and Arsenal reserves. Its harked as some kind of monumental achievement and a stamp of McCleish's ability when it was more due to a piss easy run of games and a shite Arsenal keeper
I certainly don't remember many on here hailing it as an amazing achievement at the time.
Quite.
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He doen't help himself with constant references to 'the big cubs' and 'the bigger clubs'. I know I'm probably being a bit silly, but I never hear somebody like David Moyes do that. FFS Alex, you are a manager of a BIG CLUB! Act like it!
Anyway, off to the game. Fingers crossed we get a big improvement.
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Things were a mess when Graham Taylor came in agreed, but he gave us confidence. I was amazed what he did with some pretty average players, the kind of feeling you don't get from McLeish.
We only just stayed up in our first top flight season under Sir Graham and had a bad start to the following season including losing at home to QPR and a nearly forty year old Trevor Francis hat-trick. Maybe we should have had some banners and protests at the Derby game that followed. Or maybe it was a good idea to keep calm and see how the season panned out.
There is a marked difference. Taylor had already proved his worth at Villa and bought himself time and the trust of the fans. We had faith in Sir Graham, few have faith in the current manager, mainly due to his (continuing) poor record and uninspiring football.
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Much seems to be made of McCleish's League Cup win at Birmingham. Whilst winning it is an achievement of sorts, they only had to beat two half decent teams throughout their cup run, us and Arsenal reserves. Its harked as some kind of monumental achievement and a stamp of McCleish's ability when it was more due to a piss easy run of games and a shite Arsenal keeper
Arsenal reserves?
Szczesny; Sagna, Djourou, Koscielny, Clichy; Song, Wilshere; Rosicky, Nasri, Arshavin; Van Persie
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No,GM II.
Not sure I agree he would have given us a lot more. GH signed him and didn't play him much. Then neither did Mcallister, AM obviously didn't fancy him either and he's not been playing regularly in Greece either.
We will never know which is a shame.
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Much seems to be made of McCleish's League Cup win at Birmingham. Whilst winning it is an achievement of sorts, they only had to beat two half decent teams throughout their cup run, us and Arsenal reserves. Its harked as some kind of monumental achievement and a stamp of McCleish's ability when it was more due to a piss easy run of games and a shite Arsenal keeper
I certainly don't remember many on here hailing it as an amazing achievement at the time.
Quite.
It was even easier than our route to the final the year before.
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Realistically any form of protest is going to be a waste of time at the moment. We are half way through McLeish's first season and we are 10th. I've not been impressed by most the football we've been playing so far and I don't really expect us to ever be a decent side under McLeish, but on his current record the board isn't likely to get rid of him.
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Mcleish note to self - Woah did you hear the support last night. I thought this lot hated me. Maybe i should set the team up to play like that more often
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I think there wasn't a great change in how the team was set up last night, just that the performance level was there when it generally hasn't been so far this season.
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I completely disagree. the team was set up completely different to the games against man u and liverpool
Last night we played a much higher line and closed them down from high up
the pitch and stopped them playing. Against man u and liverpool we played with 2 banks of 4 and surrendered possession
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Last night was far more like it, if AM can continue to build on it he's probably got a chance.
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The fact Mcleish said 'I know the fans appreciated that performance' suggests hopefully he understands what we expect as Villa fans.
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Where did you read that, Paul?
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On Sky Sports News, it's on their website if you want a look under the Villa section. Although I've paraphrased slightly, he said 'approved' not appreciated, but it amounts to the same thing.
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I completely disagree. the team was set up completely different to the games against man u and liverpool
Last night we played a much higher line and closed them down from high up
the pitch and stopped them playing. Against man u and liverpool we played with 2 banks of 4 and surrendered possession
This.
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There was definitely a tactic last night to get in Arsenal's faces and close them down quickly. You do wonder why it was so different on Sunday.
Those tactics won't work against Stoke though. It'll just turn in to a battle. Much better to let them have the ball when deep because they're not good enough to hurt us.
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I completely disagree. the team was set up completely different to the games against man u and liverpool
Last night we played a much higher line and closed them down from high up
the pitch and stopped them playing. Against man u and liverpool we played with 2 banks of 4 and surrendered possession
This.
Not so sure.
I think the system of 4-5-1 has been employed for the majority of this season, but they just seemed more 'at it' last night. I think one factor was Ireland, who had his best game for us until the injury, having more energy than Heskey, yet still playing that bit further forward. CNZ has also played the majority of games, but none as good as that.
So I think we've tried to play that way before, just that this time it clicked.
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Right system, right players. Most of the season, many of us have been baffled at the use of Heskey in that attacking midfield role, when we have two players (Ireland, Bannan) who are absolutely perfect for that. Not saying it was the sole reason for improvement last night, but you're right, John - it clicked and it was much better.
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Given that the system worked really well last night, where does Gabby fit into the team for the next game, when Bent is fit? Should he be dropped? That would be a bold and brave move for McLeish, but I very much doubt that's what we'll see...
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Gabby could play where Ireland/Bannan did but more as a support striker than a midfielder. Might be a bit attacking but he does but a shift in and if Heskey can play there then why the hell not?
Alternatively he can go back out on the left where he's been good this season and The Zog can go in the middle.
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Gabby could play where Ireland/Bannan did but more as a support striker than a midfielder. Might be a bit attacking but he does but a shift in and if Heskey can play there then why the hell not?
Alternatively he can go back out on the left where he's been good this season and The Zog can go in the middle.
i agree with your second point with zog where ireland was, but i also thought bannan did real well. that was the best atmosphere the team will have felt for a while so hopefully they can themselves up their performances! AM would have been amazed at the atmosphere and that may in chance inspire him!
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he cant drop Gabby,
there is no one who has given Gabby as much stick as me on here over the years, but he has been fantastic this season, and to drop him after one bad game is rediculous.
he's been our best player so far this season by a mile so deserves a bit of loyalty from the manager.
also Guzan is doing a great job in goals so far, i always thought he was better than that one game against Blackburn.
we have to hope that AM can build something,
and the performance last night was a good one, so credit where its due, on the match thread it was very positive even though we lost, which just goes to show its not always the result alone that gets us moaning its the performance which at the moment for me is actually more important.
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I agree that Bannan did very well so it would be a shame not to play him. But I also felt sorry for Ireland as he finally looked like he was playing well.
But at least we're talking about attacking options, which I couldn't have imagined earlier this week!
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also Guzan is doing a great job in goals so far, i always thought he was better than that one game against Blackburn.
I've always thought that, he's a great shot stopper, top notch at penalties, his only weakness is not being commanding or decisive enough on corners and free kicks.
I'm just glad we actually showed a bit of fight too, we rolled over for man u and the scousers, if we can have a good go at stoke and chelsea I'll be happy.
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Gabby should play on the left where he caused Norwich so many problems. Zoggy should play where Ireland played if he isn't fit.
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Judging by last nights improved performance somebody else may have given McLeish a kick up the backside.
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Much improved performance last night so lets hope we can build on this and carry it into the next few games. If we dont pick up points against Stoke and Chelski then we could be 15th in the table before we play Swansea.
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KT and Ozzjim.
It would be hypocritical for me to say that anyone should blindly support the team as I am usually one of the first to complain and often want managers sacked after half a season. On this occasion, I just want to give McLeish more time as I despise player power especially with the wages they are on. Regarding Blackburn, perhaps their fans have a point. It just seemed to me that, whatever the team did, they would want the manager out, which I find ridiculous. My gut feeling will tell me when a managerial change is necessary at Villa Park. Maybe I am just being cantankerous but there are plenty who have never given McLeish a chance. He has never had his name chanted by our fans in a favourable way. That is sad.
I hope we can pull this round but it will need money spending on the team and it is unfair on all of us if that doesn't happen. Years of paying to watch the team and buying merchandise etc should be rewarded. One concern I have is the future generations of Villa fans. Those that stick with us will be as cynical as the rest of us well before their time. No, I am not enjoying it this season, but ganging up on McLeish will solve nothing. Lerner knows we are unhappy and, if he decides to keep his manager, he cannot let him be fed to the wolves. Give us some exciting signings and bring a few smiles back to Villa Park.
DCF sorry I've not been able to get onto the site for a few days so this is a belated reply and doesn't take into account what's been said since. I should have specified that I am not in favour of "McLeish out" campaigns at the game just yet, I think it's a little too soon, even though I genuinely believe we will never go anywhere under such a limited manager. My point was about protests during the match per se, which based on your posts, you seem to be against in principle. For me they are legitimate and have a point, but they should not be the first resort. It 's interesting that since my last post we played much much better against Arsenal, but still fell foul of familiar failings, and while there are a lot of positives to be taken, the fact is we dropped into the bottom half and are only a bad result or two away from being in a relegation battle. Unless McLeish can swing a few positive results quickly in the new year, it's almost inevitable for him to start getting some flak from the crowd, and probably rightly so.
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KT
I was pleased with the way the crowd got behind the team against Arsenal. Considering all that had been said before the game, it was brilliant how everyone was so supportive. In similar circumstances in other seasons, the crowd would have been slagging the team from the start. That was not the case this time. Everyone stuck together, on and off the pitch, and it created a great atmosphere.
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KT
I was pleased with the way the crowd got behind the team against Arsenal. Considering all that had been said before the game, it was brilliant how everyone was so supportive. In similar circumstances in other seasons, the crowd would have been slagging the team from the start. That was not the case this time. Everyone stuck together, on and off the pitch, and it created a great atmosphere.
Much to do with team selection. He made changes and it bought him time with the crowd IMO, and the players game the crowd something to cheer, which is only right.
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It's important to continue well against Stoke now.If the team can build on the Arsenal game I'm sure the gloom would lift quite quickly.Stoke is a team we can have a go at too.My fingers are crossed
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It's important to continue well against Stoke now.If the team can build on the Arsenal game I'm sure the gloom would lift quite quickly.Stoke is a team we can have a go at too.My fingers are crossed
As are Chelsea at the moment..
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I dont want to see us ever play the surrender football like we did against Manure, Spurs, Citeh and Liverpool. If he has worked that out then he deserves a chance.
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I dont want to see us ever play the surrender football like we did against Manure, Spurs, Citeh and Liverpool. If he has worked that out then he deserves a chance.
I tend to agree with this - tonight is his most important game for me.If he reverts to type and plays to stop them rather than having a go like against Arsenal then that should spell the end for him and we accept he was the wrong man for our club. But if we see that he has learnt where he was going wrong and we carry on with the same positive attitude then good for him. We know that we will not be so dominant away from home but we cannot concede flair for a rear guard minded performance. If we were our usual pathetic self against Arsenal then he was doomed. What it did ashow was that with a bit more bravery and better team selection balance he could be a decent manager - he forgets he has some decent tools at his disposal so there are no excuses
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The tumbling bear is playing tonight.
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Games against Stoke ate horrible, they have been under every manager so why should tonight be any different? To use this as some sort of defining moment of his management is ridiculous.
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It's a very important game.
He's built up a lot of antipathy with his (perceived) negative tactics. Against Arsenal, he made people think twice. He can now build on that, he's got the chance.
If he reverts to type, then I don't think he's ever going to get another chance to win people over.
We're also, and it sounds a bit incidental, in need of some points pretty soon.
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It's a very important game.
He's built up a lot of antipathy with his (perceived) negative tactics. Against Arsenal, he made people think twice. He can now build on that, he's got the chance.
If he reverts to type, then I don't think he's ever going to get another chance to win people over.
We're also, and it sounds a bit incidental, in need of some points pretty soon.
Have to agree with this.
The Stoke game is showing some more endeavour.
Solid at the back for 2/3 of the game with some positive play
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I don't think it was ridiculous to see this notoriously difficult game with some importance. As it turned out it was a good solid performance, add Bent to this and I'm sure we will climb the table
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Stoke was a toughie and we did okay. Given our December fixtures we needed this... if not a win then at least a draw. A point here wad a result as far as I'm concerned.
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Somebody had what I think was a McLeish out banner today. It had a load of z's at the bottom and said something like "we used to be roaring." I couldn't really make it out that well though as I was standing a few rows behind them. Someone else who went to the Stoke game might be able to say what it said exactly though.
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Somebody had what I think was a McLeish out banner today. It had a load of z's at the bottom and said something like "we used to be roaring." I couldn't really make it out that well though as I was standing a few rows behind them. Someone else who went to the Stoke game might be able to say what it said exactly though.
I didn't see it but I heard a few twats trying to sing an anti-McLeish song . More importantly, McLeish was clapped both sides of half time and at the end.
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Somebody had what I think was a McLeish out banner today. It had a load of z's at the bottom and said something like "we used to be roaring." I couldn't really make it out that well though as I was standing a few rows behind them. Someone else who went to the Stoke game might be able to say what it said exactly though.
I didn't see it but I heard a few twats trying to sing an anti-McLeish song . More importantly, McLeish was clapped both sides of half time and at the end.
Yes, they were the same twats with the bedsheet who tried to start the anti-McLeish song. They brought it out before kick off and after the final whistle when McLeish was going down the tunnel
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I don't think it was ridiculous to see this notoriously difficult game with some importance. As it turned out it was a good solid performance, add Bent to this and I'm sure we will climb the table
As much as it was a good solid performance tonight and against Arsenal
I struggle to see where Bent fits in.Still feel Bents main strength is running onto
cultured balls through the middle of which I still see very little.
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What's that now, 5 games out of the last 7 where we haven't scored? Piss poor.
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Well done McLeish for pulling the team together again.
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It's easy to see where Bent fits in. The ball Sorensen spilled, the balls fizzing across goal, etc. That's where he fits in.
Bent would have helped us take the points in this game. We should have taken the points in this game.
I was disappointed in the lack of further substitutions as a few tweaks cold have brought some reward. Especially in the final thrid.
I would have liked to have seen Bannan, Ireland or Gradner come on in that regard.
Regardless, some encouraging signs. We were the better team at a difficult place to go. Stoke really are loathesome.
Every ball is contested with some crude form of greco roman wrestling that they seem to get away with.
So I'm pleased we stood up to them and showed some balls. A pity we couldnt have fashioned a goal though... again.
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Also on the Bent subject NZogbia and Albrigton are starting to show they can perform, which has been a massive boost for all concerned over the last few games. Bent also missed some sitters recently.If Bent hits a bit of form (which his past career shows he probably will sooner or later) then I am quite optimistic for the rest of the season.
After the Liverpool game I thought 2 things could happen 1) we might get an absolute thrashing by someone, AM would have found it an impossible task, or 2) the team started to dig in and show signs of improvement. It looks like no 2 to me so let's see how we go against Chelsea
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What's that now, 5 games out of the last 7 where we haven't scored? Piss poor.
It's not great but there are some mitigating circumstances. We've payed 4 of the top 6 in that time, we've been to Swansea who have the best home defensive record in the country (2 conceded) and Stoke who have the 5th best in the league (9) and have had our main striker missing for a chunk of it.
We've looked a decent side in 3 out of the last 4 games, the players appear to have found some confidence. There's plenty to be optimistic about for the second half f the season.
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I feel the most important thing to be positive about is that Alex McLeish appears to have accepted that the raw material he inherited when he came will not give him a brick shithouse defensive unit and that the Premiership retrenchment he has been instructed to deliver will be best achieved by playing through the midfield not over it. Whisper it but I think he shows faint signs of wanting to be a half decent manager.
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I was disappointed in the lack of further substitutions as a few tweaks cold have brought some reward. Especially in the final thrid.
I would have liked to have seen Bannan, Ireland or Gradner come on in that regard.
Because of the run we are on and the form we are in I think there's a sense of a fear of losing which is over-riding the will to go all out for a win. McLeish probably has it in the back of his head that if he had thrown a creative midfielder on and then Sturk had pinched the win due to Clark being missing from the defence on a set-piece, or Ireland missing a tackle and not tracking back like Petrov does, he would have been crucified.
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What's that now, 5 games out of the last 7 where we haven't scored? Piss poor.
It's not great but there are some mitigating circumstances. We've payed 4 of the top 6 in that time, we've been to Swansea who have the best home defensive record in the country (2 conceded) and Stoke who have the 5th best in the league (9) and have had our main striker missing for a chunk of it.
We've looked a decent side in 3 out of the last 4 games, the players appear to have found some confidence. There's plenty to be optimistic about for the second half f the season.
It's what McLeish has made a career out, horrible football with hardly any goals scored. The only teams who have scored less than us are Stoke, Everton, Swansea and Wigan, and none of them have forwards of the calibre of Agbonlahor and Bent.
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What's that now, 5 games out of the last 7 where we haven't scored? Piss poor.
It's not great but there are some mitigating circumstances. We've payed 4 of the top 6 in that time, we've been to Swansea who have the best home defensive record in the country (2 conceded) and Stoke who have the 5th best in the league (9) and have had our main striker missing for a chunk of it.
We've looked a decent side in 3 out of the last 4 games, the players appear to have found some confidence. There's plenty to be optimistic about for the second half f the season.
It's what McLeish has made a career out, horrible football with hardly any goals scored. The only teams who have scored less than us are Stoke, Everton, Swansea and Wigan, and none of them have forwards of the calibre of Agbonlahor and Bent.
We haven't had forwards of the calibre of Bent for the last couple of games. If we can continue the work rate and passing, with Bent integrated into the team, things could start to look up. The problem comes if Bent is just a passenger as has been the case most of the season. With the final arrival of N'Zogbia onto the scene and a resurgent Albrighton there is promise.
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No it isn't, but don't let the facts get in the way of a bit of hyperbole.
I think any manager coming in and trying to build a side having lost six first team regulars would have had similar problems but the signs are that the players are finally responding to the way he wants them to play. We're not in the bottom 3 by now, as many expected, and after Chelsea we've got a run of games where we can start turning performances into points.
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I agree wholeheartedly Riss but I do detect signs that he wants to be different but is too scared to commit. He is terrified of losing so he sticks to what he knows. Bit like a plain woman who is too scared to use perfume and make up and works on her cooking skills to find a husband.
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I think Chris, and no contradiction intended, that it is not that the players are learning how to play the way he wants them to but the reverse. He is learning to have confidence in his players and let them play the way they prefer. I think the long ball over the top vaguely in the direction of Bent's head culprits are a small minority of the Villa squad and most of them have been just as pissed off with the ugly football as we have been. Just my opinion
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We'll have to agree to disagree, Brian. In several post match press conferences he has made the point that they're not translating work on the training ground on to the pitch. Albrighton confirmed it after the Liverpool game. Now that he and N'Zogbia have found some form and confidence we look a different side.
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Now that he and N'Zogbia have found some form and confidence we look a different side.
Yes we do, but we're still not testing opposition keepers anywhere near enough. That needs to change sooner rather than later or we'll be looking anxiously over our shoulder at the clubs below us come the last month or two.
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I agree Clampy, hopefully Bent will be back fit soon. He got on the end of a couple of things at Bolton but wasted the chances and hasn't played since.
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He's got to go.
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Fair point Chris. My opinion that it is the manager moving closer to the players than vice versa is shaped by the fact that I spend a lot of time studying form. It is racehorse form admittedly but all competitive sport can be predicted more accurately by the evaluation of previous performance.
Alex McLeish has form for playing a certain style of football. I will not provoke argument by elaborating on his approach to management suffice to say we are all pretty much agreed on what it is.
With one or two exceptions and once again we know who they are, we have a squad with key players with proven records for playing the sort of attractive passing football we want to see.
Marc Albrighton and Charles N'Zogbia have been commented upon as being central to the better football we have played in recent games.
Here is my point. Those two players have established form as quality players. You could say the same about Stephen Ireland and Barry Bannan and Stylian Petrov and Cieran Clark. They have started to play to the level of their previous performances (in racing this is called "franking the form"). It is McLeish who needs to change and in all fairness to him I believe he is starting to do so and I respect him for it.
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Albrighton was WAY off the boil long before McLeish came to the villa. Same for Ireland, and new signings such as N'Zogbia can often take a bit of time to bed down (I would agree though that his performances were far from acceptable up until very recently). I would say that Petrov has been one of our most consistent players this season, so don't see him as being a problem this season.
All this, coupled with the fact that we lost arguably our two most important creative players during the summer is as much a reason for our toothlessness up front than McLeish's inherent defensive-mindedness in my opinion. I'm not saying that he's an entertaining manager, or that he's got all his decisions right, but to lay all the blame on him is unfair. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.
Bear in mind, even when we were flying high(ish) under he who shall not be named, we were regularly frustrated by our inability to break teams down in the final third, and that was with a much better team than what we have now. It's no surprise to me that we are now lacking a real attacking threat.
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I dont want to see us ever play the surrender football like we did against Manure, Spurs, Citeh and Liverpool. If he has worked that out then he deserves a chance.
Did he choose to surrender or were we simply unable to compete in those games? Thats what i wonder. In the last 2 games we have shown that we can take the game to the opposition. Change of tactics or the team now gelling?
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I agree Ger. I am not saying that McLeish is responsible for Albrighton or anybody else losing their form. All I am saying is that they had form to regain. I believe they are regaining it because the manager has started to change the habits of a lifetime and allowing them to play front foot football. I don't think the players' attitudes have changed I think the manager's has.
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I dont want to see us ever play the surrender football like we did against Manure, Spurs, Citeh and Liverpool. If he has worked that out then he deserves a chance.
Did he choose to surrender or were we simply unable to compete in those games? Thats what i wonder. In the last 2 games we have shown that we can take the game to the opposition. Change of tactics or the team now gelling?
I think there was a definate change against Arsenal, we were pressing higher up the field and trying to use shorter passing and movement. I saw less against Stoke but I think that was because it was Stoke. The test willl be against Chelsea, and wether he goes back to surrender football.
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The test willl be against Chelsea, and wether he goes back to surrender football.
In some ways I'm sorry we're playing Chelsea now, just at a time when the team's playing with more cohesion and determination and gaining some confidence. We could do with an easy home game. On the other hand, we have a pretty good recent record at Stamford Bridge (if you ignore one result), Bent should be back, and there are signs that AM is allowing the wide players to play with more freedom. As you say, what we don't want is another surrender. If we play to our strengths and worry Chelsea as Fulham did, we can get something out of this game
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I don't think the players' attitudes have changed I think the manager's has.
Great point.
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Other teams have got something against the top sides. Wigan got something against Chelsea, Wolves did against Arsenal, Blackburn did at Liverpool. If McLeish was surrendering he was a pratt to.
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Its unlikely we'll get much return from the top 6 clubs, but we're good enough to stay up and with a few strewd signings we may just about make a top 10 finish if the last couple of performances can be improved upon. There is no reason on paper why we cant string some decent results together over the next few months, and that should buy AM time to at least the summer.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
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yeah but sack him and we're back to square one again. We had the same with GH after MON left and again when AM was appointed - players bought that the new manager has to work with whether he likes it or not.. Sooner or later we need some continuation otherwise we're throwing good money after bad.
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Whatever happened to giving someone a chance? I do not really see half a season as a chance.
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I see Ciaran Clark has come out and said 'We are good enough to beat anyone in this league.' Now if Mcleish adopts the same mindset we should be alright.
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I don't think booing the team or McLeish is going to make a difference. Before the festive period, I was one of those fans taht wanted him gone but now I have time to cool down and think about things, I think he needs some more time. Yes, he may never completely win over us fans but I feel he needs to be given time to build his own squad of players. Also, why would RL sack him? He went out of his way to get him tapped up and then we ended up paying compensation for him! Can't see him sacking him and then paying out more money to pay off Eck and then pay fo another manager (assuming we went after a manager already in a job)
Is it me or do you think Eck has given Petrov a license to shoot from ANYWAY on the pitch? Against stoke he decided that he would should from anywhere in the Stoke half!
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If he's not going to sack him - and he isn't - then he has to back him, and that means money to spend in January
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I think a modest amount - say 10 million in Jan, would be the most appropriate thing to get a midfielder and maybe a loan forward.
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The only thing that will save him is good form, good results, half decent perfomances and a positive attitude towards games against anyone other than relegation fodder. And that looks light years away.
This is what I posted after the Liverpool game, we're getting there, slowly, but it's buying the manager time.
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People are always going on about performances over results, but if you look at the last 4 games along those lines I'd say:-
Bolton - good
Liverpool - rubbish
Arsenal - excellent
Stoke - decent
We're not there yet, but the recent signs have been encouraging, so lets not talk ourselves down. If we get a result against Chelsea we'll be wellset up for the easier games coming up.
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I'm pretty certain McLeish doesn't send sides out to surrender, or even pick teams with the emphasis on keeping the score down.
But if he is doubtful about our chances or talks the opposition too much, this transmits to the players and they might be left with a feeling of 'what can we do anyway, lets just get the game out of the way.'
For all his various failings debated at length here, the one thing MON did was seemingly send sides out with a belief that they could win any game. Didn't always work, wasn't always pretty at times. But there was never a sense that we should pay the opposition too much respect and stand off them, or know our place.
Hopefully the penny has dropped for McLeish in that regard too now. I'll need a bit more than a defeat at home to Arsenal and a scoreless away draw to Stoke to feel we've really turned the corner, but there have been encouraging signs we *might* be moving in the right direction.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
And how many weeks would you give Hodgson before sacking him?
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I don't think sacking another manager, paying him compensation and then getting another one who's already in a job, paying more compensation is going to save us a fortune.
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Hodgson won't leave West Brom for another few years yet anyway.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
And how many weeks would you give Hodgson before sacking him?
The few West Brom fans I know really don't rate Hodgson. They moan he's just as negative. Plays a back4, then sticks Sharnar & Mulumbu infront of them.
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Hodgson won't leave West Brom for another few years yet anyway.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. There are whispers that the board aren't too happy about him not signing a new contract and he's looking towards the England job.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
And how many weeks would you give Hodgson before sacking him?
The few West Brom fans I know really don't rate Hodgson. They moan he's just as negative. Plays a back4, then sticks Sharnar & Mulumbu infront of them.
To be fair, negative football is clearly not in the great tradition of the Smethwick Brazil.
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I never fail to be surprised that the two clubs in English football who consistently play the best football year in and year out, West Ham and West Brom get relegated so often. How Tony Mowbray's side went down a couple of years back is a mystery right up there with how Brazil failed to win the 1982 world cup.
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McLeish's continuing tenure as manager of our club depends on what the actual vision is from the owner and his poodle in terms of success on the pitch.
If the vision ranges from survival to mid table being a half decent season then the right man is in charge, provided even he can use the current crop of players to lose his tag of Jonah.
If however the vision is to finish near or in the European places then entirely the wrong man is in charge and in these circumstances you would have to question the wisdom of the decision to appoint in the first place.
It therefore only leads me to believe that the ambitions for success on the pitch have been scaled down considerably and can probably be bracketed under treading water.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
And how many weeks would you give Hodgson before sacking him?
As many as he needed to get it right, within reason, as he's a good football manager.
McLeish is not. He's average at best. And with many just waiting for an excuse to really lay into him the whole operation seems incredibly pointless.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
And how many weeks would you give Hodgson before sacking him?
As many as he needed to get it right, within reason, as he's a good football manager.
McLeish is not. He's average at best. And with many just waiting for an excuse to really lay into him the whole operation seems incredibly pointless.
The day when justification for sacking a manager is because "many" don't like him is the day we should give up. But still, Roy Hodgson won the Swedish league title - that's what I call impressive.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
And how many weeks would you give Hodgson before sacking him?
The few West Brom fans I know really don't rate Hodgson. They moan he's just as negative. Plays a back4, then sticks Sharnar & Mulumbu infront of them.
The Baggies fans I know love Hodgson...might be something to do with the fact that got a great result and performance against Citeh, they are now in the top half of the league and above the Villa making them "pride of the Midlands" again. (yes, they do talk a load of shite)
AM has done everything thats been asked of him so far, so to sack him now would be bordering on a case for unfair dismissal. Hes kept us in the top half of the table until recently, dealt with cost cuts and I expect he will continue to go about his job with a limited transfer fund with a sell to buy policy. If this was made clear to him and hes not kicking up a fuss behind the scenes then its hard to see Randy being unhappy...and the line from PF about European qualification is just a smoke screen to shut the fans up with a false promise of ambition.
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West Ham and West Brom are the two best two footballing teams in England? Nurse, I think it is time for my medication.
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I think he was being sarcastic Brian.
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If the vision ranges from survival to mid table being a half decent season then the right man is in charge, provided even he can use the current crop of players to lose his tag of Jonah.
If however the vision is to finish near or in the European places then entirely the wrong man is in charge and in these circumstances you would have to question the wisdom of the decision to appoint in the first place.
Would agree with those comments.
It therefore only leads me to believe that the ambitions for success on the pitch have been scaled down considerably and can probably be bracketed under treading water.
Or, Randy really thinks AM is the man to achieve the latter of your visions - worrying
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AM has done everything thats been asked of him so far, so to sack him now would be bordering on a case for unfair dismissal. Hes kept us in the top half of the table until recently, dealt with cost cuts and I expect he will continue to go about his job with a limited transfer fund with a sell to buy policy. If this was made clear to him and hes not kicking up a fuss behind the scenes then its hard to see Randy being unhappy...and the line from PF about European qualification is just a smoke screen to shut the fans up with a false promise of ambition.
That's one way of looking at it, I suppose. Are you sure what he has achieved so far is what Randy wanted when he appointed him.
Others have achieved more with less.
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I think the thing is that getting our finances back in order is the overriding concern right now, so while some could do more with less, Randy wants a manager willing to work under the constraints we're faced with more than anything. When the CL is so far out of sight right now, does Europa League qualification mean all that much to us? He's as good as anything for the short term goals of clearing the decks while steadying the ship, it's what happens after that is accomplished that is the question. If Randy wants to start spending again in a year or two, with a closer eye on the wagebill this time, then we can probably attract a better manager and we probably should do. But if we've given up the dream and are looking to consolidate as a mid table side, then I can see him sticking around for a while.
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I'm still not convinced that we are safe, if Blackburn get another manager their form could spike upwards and Wigan seem to be playing better football now. Mcleish has history against him and if he doesn't strengthen in January all it takes is a couple of injuries.
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We should always be looking to achieve the best we can and as far as I am concerned that means 7th at this point in time (not to say we would achieve it but it should be the target) given that we are not in the same league financially as the top 6. We should be looking to be the best of the rest so that when things do turn around financially, however slight, we have not got a huge gap to make up like we had when Randy first took over.
Accepting mid-table on the basis there is not much to be gained between either finishing 7th or 14th (or even lower) is losing sight of the fact that at the lower end you could be 25 points of 6th at the end of the season compared with 5 or 6 if finishing 7th. To make that step back up in one or two seasons would be nigh on impossible.
We must stay in touch with the top 6 by developing a balanced squad of young and good experienced players. This squad has to have continuity, meaning that it is constantly refreshed. The whole club must have an ethos of continually building for the future and improving, however gradual it may be.
If people think that after clearing the decks of the ageing high earners that we are going to start spending £30 or £40m a season again and that is going to put us back in the top 5 or 6 they are sadly dreaming in an unreal world.
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I think that after 38 games are played the difference between 14th and 6th and 7th and 6th will be a lot closer than you think.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try to finish as high as possible, just that with the financial difference being so small it becomes a small priority in comparison to getting our finances back on track. If the difference between two leage places is say £2m in income, but it cost us £4m to do it, we're not presently in a position to do that. However, if and when we are again, we might be spending £20m in the hope of rising 4 or 5 places.
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The point I am trying to make is that we should always be looking to the future and not just the present. From the end of last season it looks to me that the club is only thinking about the present, for whatever reason I am not sure. It started with the appointment of a manager that for years has only thought in that manner.
You can act for the present and still develop for the future but for that you need a quality manager that is supported by the owner. I am not seeing that and that is my concern. We are coming up a long way short in leadership of the team and the club.
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It depends on what you see as 'acting for the future'. Now I'm not saying this is the case, but we have a good crop of young players who did OK last season, and probably should have got their chance before now, so the further intergration of the likes of of Herd, Bannan, Albrighton and Clark can be seen as part of a longer term strategy. Also, signings like Edna Stevens are us trying to find the 'hidden jems' we've previously failed on.
But ultimately, the financial issues have to be corrected as part of any future planning. Do you try to buy a house with debt and no deposit or do you try to clear your debt and safe for a deposit first?
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I'm still not convinced that we are safe, if Blackburn get another manager their form could spike upwards and Wigan seem to be playing better football now. Mcleish has history against him and if he doesn't strengthen in January all it takes is a couple of injuries.
Of course, we're the only team likely to suffer injuries.
I wonder how miserable the Wigan and Bkackburn equivalents if you must be? The sort who can see unlikely positives at othe clubs but only doom and gloom for their iwn.
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I have always believed that to be able to integrate young players into the team when you are talking about more than one or two, you require 'leaders' on the pitch. You need experienced players that are willing to do that bit extra to help the young players develop further in the team. Do you see that in Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Petrov, Heskey or Cuellar because I don't. Even with A Young and Downing, we still looked like a team of individuals.
A case in point, Nathan Delfouneso, a great youth player but is struggling to step up to the next level. Granted he has not been given many opportunities but when he plays do you see any experienced players encouraging him and trying to bring him into the game to give him confidence. I know it is a long time ago but I look back to Gary Shaw and how Peter Withe helped him develop during the championship winning season.
As they say, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Who can you name in the team that leads by example and drives/leads others.
Much has been made about too many players on high wages that are not giving value for money. Randy has learned an expensive lesson due to his inexperience of English football. I agree that we have to clear the decks of many of these players but where is the planning for, say, when Dunne and Collins are moved on. Is Clark or Baker being groomed to move seamlessly into central defence. No, the manager, is thinking about the present and keeps playing the same players in defence so that if one or both go at the end of the season we will be forced into buying replacements. It has been like this for a long time and why many great prospects at youth level never seem to develop further with us.
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I'm still not convinced that we are safe, if Blackburn get another manager their form could spike upwards and Wigan seem to be playing better football now. Mcleish has history against him and if he doesn't strengthen in January all it takes is a couple of injuries.
Of course, we're the only team likely to suffer injuries.
I wonder how miserable the Wigan and Bkackburn equivalents if you must be? The sort who can see unlikely positives at othe clubs but only doom and gloom for their iwn.
We have the comfort in that not all the team below us are going to get more points than us in the 2nd half of the season. Teams are at the bottom of the table because they have not picked up many points. That is not going to suddenly change for all the teams. There may be a 'Blackburn' that improves and performs better than us but there will be another that slips into the bottom 3 before Villa. There are more than 3 teams that we will finish with more points than.
There will always be pessimists and, likewise, optimists regarding our and others' abilities. A bit like a player from another team always looks better in that team than he actually is and why our transfer speculation thread goes on for hundreds of pages.
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I'm still not convinced that we are safe, if Blackburn get another manager their form could spike upwards and Wigan seem to be playing better football now. Mcleish has history against him and if he doesn't strengthen in January all it takes is a couple of injuries.
Of course, we're the only team likely to suffer injuries.
I wonder how miserable the Wigan and Bkackburn equivalents if you must be? The sort who can see unlikely positives at othe clubs but only doom and gloom for their iwn.
I don't see anything wrong with what Robbo has said, it's just an observation he's made and it's a fair one. We're only 6 points off Wigan and like Robbo has hinted, Blues suffered injuries last season and paid the price for it.
I don't think we'll go down, but i'm not unrealistic to think that it won't happen because it could.
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You only have to look at our bench recently to see that a bad injury run could put us in trouble.
Stoke: Ireland, Marshall, Bannan, Weimann, Delfouneso, Johnson, Gardner
Arsenal: Marshall, Collins, Williams, Delph, Bannan, Delfouneso, Weimann
Racist FC: Marshall, Clark, Cuellar, Bannan, Johnson, Weimann, Burke
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I have always believed that to be able to integrate young players into the team when you are talking about more than one or two, you require 'leaders' on the pitch. You need experienced players that are willing to do that bit extra to help the young players develop further in the team. Do you see that in Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Petrov, Heskey or Cuellar because I don't. Even with A Young and Downing, we still looked like a team of individuals.
A case in point, Nathan Delfouneso, a great youth player but is struggling to step up to the next level. Granted he has not been given many opportunities but when he plays do you see any experienced players encouraging him and trying to bring him into the game to give him confidence. I know it is a long time ago but I look back to Gary Shaw and how Peter Withe helped him develop during the championship winning season.
As they say, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Who can you name in the team that leads by example and drives/leads others.
Much has been made about too many players on high wages that are not giving value for money. Randy has learned an expensive lesson due to his inexperience of English football. I agree that we have to clear the decks of many of these players but where is the planning for, say, when Dunne and Collins are moved on. Is Clark or Baker being groomed to move seamlessly into central defence. No, the manager, is thinking about the present and keeps playing the same players in defence so that if one or both go at the end of the season we will be forced into buying replacements. It has been like this for a long time and why many great prospects at youth level never seem to develop further with us.
Yes, strong characters are needed, but even if I agreed with your assessment of the present experienced batch, which I don't, does that mean we just throw a generation away? Or spend money we haven't got trying to get players in who will benefit them greater?
No, what we do is get the best out of our present squad as the young lads get game time.
In relation to the bit about Clark and Dunne/Collins leaving, I do take your point somewhat. However, lets not presume we'll no what happens before it does as Clark could slip back into the defence alongside Dunne quiet nicely, IMO. If you look at Man Utd they are doing something similar with Jones, yet Fergie is not getting criticised for it.
As I've said before though, the conclusion of this debate will be found in what happens next. If we clear the decks and then start building in a more sustainable way again, then the traces of that will be found in this season. If not, and we do carry on treading water, then I'll be joing the 'Randy must sell up' brigade.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
I don't see the point in spending lots of money sacking McLeish and replacing him with a marginally better manager in Hodgson. The latter may be a better tactician, but he's of the same ilk, a limited one-trick pony. Like McLeish, he'd be decent if his trick fits and a possible catastrophe (like at Liverpool) if it doesn't. I'll admit that McLeish is limited and that we could do far better than employing him, but he's not crap and doesn't appear to be a catastrophe. However, the club should start well before the end of the season to consider if this (football a la McLeish) is really what they want (and a feasible way to make us progress as a football club).
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I think that after 38 games are played the difference between 14th and 6th and 7th and 6th will be a lot closer than you think.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try to finish as high as possible, just that with the financial difference being so small it becomes a small priority in comparison to getting our finances back on track. If the difference between two leage places is say £2m in income, but it cost us £4m to do it, we're not presently in a position to do that. However, if and when we are again, we might be spending £20m in the hope of rising 4 or 5 places.
Crikey, if we're looking at it that way, we might as well start following companies on the stock market or something.
At the end of the day, it's about supporting a football team, seeing some good football, getting excited and finishing as high as we possibly can.
if the owner reduces it down to "what's the point trying", then really, we might as well just jack it in and find something else less stressful / annoying / frustrating to do with our time.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
I don't see the point in spending lots of money sacking McLeish and replacing him with a marginally better manager in Hodgson. The latter may be a better tactician, but he's of the same ilk, a limited one-trick pony. Like McLeish, he'd be decent if his trick fits and a possible catastrophe (like at Liverpool) if it doesn't. I'll admit that McLeish is limited and that we could do far better than employing him, but he's not crap and doesn't appear to be a catastrophe. However, the club should start well before the end of the season to consider if this (football a la McLeish) is really what they want (and a feasible way to make us progress as a football club).
If we're settling for mid table, let's do it with a manager who might provide a bit of entertainment in the meantime.
I'd rather try someone like Poyet from the lower leagues, who likes to play football, and at least have some fun, rather than watch season after season of grinding out draws plus the occasional three points with a manager who is constantly thinking about not losing.
It's supposed to be fun, isn't it?
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The thing a Club will get a Manager that matches thier aspirations, we lack ambition so we end up with a bloke that sees mid table mediocrity as success.
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If it were up to me I'd sack him and get Hodgson in.
It'd give the club a lift, he's shown in recent seasons he's capable of doing well at clubs with similar ambitions to ours currently and he improves players. Which would save us a fortune.
I don't see the point in spending lots of money sacking McLeish and replacing him with a marginally better manager in Hodgson.
I agree completely. But I remember being completely sure in the summer that there was absolutely no point going through the rigmarole of 'removing' Houllier when he wanted to stay and then paying up his contract unless we were getting a far better manager in.
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Time to give it a rest for a while now, ey? Recent form deserves our backing, no question.
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Yes it is. time to get behind the manager and team and put this shite year behind us
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Just out the ground. I think McLeish deserves a bit of credit. Superb display. Ireland man of match.
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It is the season of goodwill...long may it continue. Credit where credits due. Well done AM.
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We'll make a Villa man out of McLeish.
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Yes, back him and when we lose again, back him. Back him, regardless.
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I just hope that he persist with the way we have played the last 3 games. If he does he should get backed.
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Just out the ground. I think McLeish deserves a bit of credit. Superb display. Ireland man of match.
I am so pleased Ireland turned on the style today. He's a confidence player and this should bring the best out of him.
AM deserves a lot of credit as you say, maybe it's just starting to click with the players as to what is expected. 3 games in a row now where we have given a performance worthy of our club's name.
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I may not think McLeish is the best manager in the world but I still want him to succeed.
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Just out the ground. I think McLeish deserves a bit of credit. Superb display. Ireland man of match.
I'll admit that I, after four months of watching a disjointed team turn in weak performances, was starting to give up on him (and like most I wasn't too keen on him in the first place).
But I am starting to change my mind a little. It has taken him a lot of time, but he has started to field a team that can play football. And while the results may be some way from the heady days of MON's prime, the football is at least worth watching, and we just won 3-1 at Chelsea!
(However, to me, the inclusion of Clark in midfield is a no-brainer, as he is our only option as a tactically and defensively astute central midfielder, but there may be reasons unknown to me that he hasn't played before.)
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Spot on Mac. I would'nt have picked him, but hes here now, give him a chance i'm not a fan of keep paying out compensation all the time.
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I may not think McLeish is the best manager in the world but I still want him to succeed.
Too bloody right. I would be so happy for anyone to succeed for the Villa.
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Three goals scored and not a clean sheet in sight. Absolutely useless.
McLeish out...
...then back in for the next game.
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Gabby had a bit of a strop half way through 2nd half but looked happy enough at the end. What a difference when all the team are working together.
In previous years I would have backed us to capitulate towards the end but we didn't today. Their match day commentator took the piss out of us a couple of seasons ago. Stick that microphone where the Sun doesn't shine.
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Everybody beats Chelsea, it makes no difference. ;D
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(http://ist1-1.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/1/_/_/_/1/1/1/K/q/11KqU/AqtUpD6CQAIgH-G.png)
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I'd really like to see us rally round the team against Spurs. Randy isn't going to sack him with 1 game left ffs.
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I heard some bollocks on talkfuck, of villa fans hiring a pitch side advertsitement at villa park with mcleish out.
Do you think club will let you do that? nope
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I heard some bollocks on talkfuck, of villa fans hiring a pitch side advertsitement at villa park with mcleish out.
Do you think club will let you do that? nope
They didn't say that at all Richard, they said billboard advertising space outside the ground.
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I'd really like to see us rally round the team against Spurs. Randy isn't going to sack him with 1 game left ffs.
So would I.
In fact, if we are in the desperate trouble I suspect we'll be in, they can fuck off with the banner waving until after the game.
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All the banners and demonstrations in the world will not make any difference at this stage.Just cheer the lads on and forget that idiot is even in charge of our team!
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What a fucking stupid idea. The team need all the support they can get at the moment.
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What a fucking stupid idea. The team need all the support they can get at the moment.
Very true.
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I'd prefer there to be no protests, banners etc before or during the game. As AM obviously can't do it we need to try and raise the players to the results we need. The cause of the club is more important than AM will ever be. We need to create an atmosphere like the Newcastle game last season, and not one like the Wolves game.
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I'd prefer there to be no protests, banners etc before or during the game. As AM obviously can't do it we need to try and raise the players to the results we need. The cause of the club is more important than AM will ever be. We need to create an atmosphere like the Newcastle game last season, and not one like the Wolves game.
Any suggestions as to how?
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I'd prefer there to be no protests, banners etc before or during the game. As AM obviously can't do it we need to try and raise the players to the results we need. The cause of the club is more important than AM will ever be. We need to create an atmosphere like the Newcastle game last season, and not one like the Wolves game.
Trouble is I don't think support, however great will make any difference. I was at Wigan and the crowd gave brilliant support to the team from the first minute to the last, and yet were still treated to a typical performance and result.
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I heard some bollocks on talkfuck, of villa fans hiring a pitch side advertsitement at villa park with mcleish out.
Do you think club will let you do that? nope
They didn't say that at all Richard, they said billboard advertising space outside the ground.
I heard some bollocks on talkfuck, of villa fans hiring a pitch side advertsitement at villa park with mcleish out.
Do you think club will let you do that? nope
They didn't say that at all Richard, they said billboard advertising space outside the ground.
Risso stand corrected what advertising space outside villa park??
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Dunno Richard, I imagine there must be some in the general Aston vicinity.
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I don't know of any near to the ground.
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I'd prefer there to be no protests, banners etc before or during the game. As AM obviously can't do it we need to try and raise the players to the results we need. The cause of the club is more important than AM will ever be. We need to create an atmosphere like the Newcastle game last season, and not one like the Wolves game.
Trouble is I don't think support, however great will make any difference. I was at Wigan and the crowd gave brilliant support to the team from the first minute to the last, and yet were still treated to a typical performance and result.
But we won that game 0-0!
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I'd prefer there to be no protests, banners etc before or during the game. As AM obviously can't do it we need to try and raise the players to the results we need. The cause of the club is more important than AM will ever be. We need to create an atmosphere like the Newcastle game last season, and not one like the Wolves game.
Trouble is I don't think support, however great will make any difference. I was at Wigan and the crowd gave brilliant support to the team from the first minute to the last, and yet were still treated to a typical performance and result.
But we won that game 0-0!
We might need a draw against Spurs to ensure survival.
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I may not think McLeish is the best manager in the world but I still want him to succeed.
I think most of us have that attitude but I will not happen because he is just not up to the job.
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I'd prefer there to be no protests, banners etc before or during the game. As AM obviously can't do it we need to try and raise the players to the results we need. The cause of the club is more important than AM will ever be. We need to create an atmosphere like the Newcastle game last season, and not one like the Wolves game.
Trouble is I don't think support, however great will make any difference. I was at Wigan and the crowd gave brilliant support to the team from the first minute to the last, and yet were still treated to a typical performance and result.
But we won that game 0-0!
We might need a draw against Spurs to ensure survival.
We must get behind the team 100% for the full 90 mins.
If we are 0-3 down with 5 mins left then we can cut loose if we want but it will be no use. Best wait until after the game.
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I don't know of any near to the ground.
Apparently by PowerLeague.
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I don't know of any near to the ground.
There are some underneath the Expressway by where the burger vans park.
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What about that huge one next to the M6 by the Bescot Stadium or better still hire the Goodyear Blimp or small aircraft with banner.
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I'd prefer there to be no protests, banners etc before or during the game. As AM obviously can't do it we need to try and raise the players to the results we need. The cause of the club is more important than AM will ever be. We need to create an atmosphere like the Newcastle game last season, and not one like the Wolves game.
Trouble is I don't think support, however great will make any difference. I was at Wigan and the crowd gave brilliant support to the team from the first minute to the last, and yet were still treated to a typical performance and result.
But we won that game 0-0!
We might need a draw against Spurs to ensure survival.
We must get behind the team 100% for the full 90 mins.
If we are 0-3 down with 5 mins left then we can cut loose if we want but it will be no use. Best wait until after the game.
Completely with you. I doubt that'll be the reality of what happens though.
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I'd prefer there to be no protests, banners etc before or during the game. As AM obviously can't do it we need to try and raise the players to the results we need. The cause of the club is more important than AM will ever be. We need to create an atmosphere like the Newcastle game last season, and not one like the Wolves game.
Trouble is I don't think support, however great will make any difference. I was at Wigan and the crowd gave brilliant support to the team from the first minute to the last, and yet were still treated to a typical performance and result.
Maybe it won't. But it has more chance than singing "fuck off McLeish, the Villa is ours" for 90 minutes.
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I'd like to think people will channel their energy into supporting the team. Everyone knows how we feel about the situation - fans, media the lot. We don't need to tell them again, let's just get behind the team and see what we can achieve. It would be great to play a part in getting the results we need, surely?
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After seeing that the top ten posts on the forum are all Anti-McLeish posts, I am completely shocked that no one wanted this job over the 2011 summer...
And if McLeish were to be gone tomorrow, I would be just as shocked when no one else wanted it for 2012-2013
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I don't know of any near to the ground.
total waste of money,mcleish comes via a34
Apparently by PowerLeague.
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I still think Randy's getting away too lightly, As has already been said on this topic. Everyone knows how we feel about the manager, didn't want him, not good enough etc.
Time to remind our owner that the buck has to stop with him.
"You fucked us right up, You fucked us right uuuuuppp"
"Well done Randy, You fucked us right up"
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After seeing that the top ten posts on the forum are all Anti-McLeish posts, I am completely shocked that no one wanted this job over the 2011 summer...
And if McLeish were to be gone tomorrow, I would be just as shocked when no one else wanted it for 2012-2013
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
What else do you expect us to be talking about?
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I still think Randy's getting away too lightly, As has already been said on this topic. Everyone knows how we feel about the manager, didn't want him, not good enough etc.
Time to remind our owner that the buck has to stop with him.
Lerner really has come out of this with very little criticism, McLeish is the one who gets all the bile.
Having said that, Blandy is never here much these days so he needn't worry.
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After seeing that the top ten posts on the forum are all Anti-McLeish posts, I am completely shocked that no one wanted this job over the 2011 summer...
And if McLeish were to be gone tomorrow, I would be just as shocked when no one else wanted it for 2012-2013
Yep, that will be the main reason. Not the lack of funding, support, etc from Lerner. It's the horrible fans saying mean things.
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If we lose on Saturday, then the supporters who are at the Albion need to give Mcleish plenty of abuse and grief, we have to continue to pile on the pressure on Lerner so that even he can see that he needs to get rid of McLEISH!
Lets not forget without us the supporters OUR football club would be nothing! Following that statement last night I honestly think that Lerner and Faulkner have now realised the mistake they have made and I expect McLeish to be gone at the end of the season...my worry would be who would these 2 idiots then bring in...
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http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2012/04/26/fans-call-for-new-villa-park-protest-against-under-fire-boss-mcleish-97319-30841205/
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We need to protest as vigorously as possible, because the situation is so dire. Even if it has a negative effect on the team in individual games...the team can silence the protests by playing well...if we give Albion at least a stern examination on Saturday then the protests will naturally subside and all well and good...but the bigger picture remains that McLeish's management is a cancer in this club that needs to be exorcised, however painful the treatment may be in the short term...
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During the game we need to get behind our team. Leave the protests until afterwards if warranted.
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After seeing that the top ten posts on the forum are all Anti-McLeish posts, I am completely shocked that no one wanted this job over the 2011 summer...
And if McLeish were to be gone tomorrow, I would be just as shocked when no one else wanted it for 2012-2013
Yep, that will be the main reason. Not the lack of funding, support, etc from Lerner. It's the horrible fans saying mean things.
There are fans out there who sincerely believe that Tim. I've just had run-ins on FB with a few of them...
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I'm all for protest and laying into the manager but it has to be after the game. during it we must give our all for the eleven on the pitch. it really is the least we can do to save our prem league status
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I'm all for protest and laying into the manager but it has to be after the game. during it we must give our all for the eleven on the pitch. it really is the least we can do to save our prem league status
I agree with this.
The chants the other day started with 5 minutes to go. I don't think anyone thought the game was still live from the moment Bolton scored their second, let alone so close to the end.
Starting a vital game with chants against the manager, though, isn't going to help. The chants can wait, surely?
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I'm all for protest and laying into the manager but it has to be after the game. during it we must give our all for the eleven on the pitch. it really is the least we can do to save our prem league status
I agree with this.
The chants the other day started with 5 minutes to go. I don't think anyone thought the game was still live from the moment Bolton scored their second, let alone so close to the end.
Starting a vital game with chants against the manager, though, isn't going to help. The chants can wait, surely?
Spot on pauliw.
I was too depressed to join in on Tuesday and didn't think it would help the team.
After the final whistle against Spurs I will gladly protest my bollocks off!
Just gonna see what spare sheets we've got!;-)
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My protest on a personal note is aimed at Faulkner. He interviewed McLeish, he told Lerner to appoint him. Faulkner has been a disaster from the start and I sooner see him go and proven exec with knowledge of the game can hand Mcleish is P45 and get in the right man
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The away support at Albion will be behind the team, I have no doubt about that. Its pretty sad that it toook until 5 minutes into the 4th last game of the season for people to realise how bad the situation had become. The protests are now pointless and too late.
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Interesting to see some of the earlier posts on this thread dismissing attacks on the manager because we were 10th at the time, and never mind the dire, negative football being dished up. Others, including me, were expressing concern even back then that, not only was the football shite, but that, despite the league position, we weren't picking up enough wins to cover our arses when we hit our difficult looking final third of the season. But we were told "the table doesn't lie". I suppose this amounts to a "told you so", but you didn't have to be Nostradamus to see where it was heading, and it's by no means pleasant to see such predictions coming to fruition. Frankly the manager should have been sacked based on Spurs away alone, which was an absolute disgrace.
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I'm thinking of altering my 'O'Leary for England' banner into a 'McLeish for Barca' one for tomorrow.........
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My protest on a personal note is aimed at Faulkner. He interviewed McLeish, he told Lerner to appoint him. Faulkner has been a disaster from the start and I sooner see him go and proven exec with knowledge of the game can hand Mcleish is P45 and get in the right man
He sounded like he was really trying to cover his own arse on TalkSport the other day
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Interesting to see some of the earlier posts on this thread dismissing attacks on the manager because we were 10th at the time, and never mind the dire, negative football being dished up. Others, including me, were expressing concern even back then that, not only was the football shite, but that, despite the league position, we weren't picking up enough wins to cover our arses when we hit our difficult looking final third of the season. But we were told "the table doesn't lie". I suppose this amounts to a "told you so", but you didn't have to be Nostradamus to see where it was heading, and it's by no means pleasant to see such predictions coming to fruition. Frankly the manager should have been sacked based on Spurs away alone, which was an absolute disgrace.
The fact that it is clear that Lerner was happy to spend the season just muddling through is an absolute disgrace.An insult to the club and supporters who are spending good money to at least be entertained.If this was any other club he would have been sacked weeks ago
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Months ago Zoggy. The day after Wigan away it was clear where we were heading under McLeish. Bent running around on his own up front with no service? Playing for a draw at Wigan? A disgrace.
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The trouble is now, that with all the best intentions in the world, if we go behind in any game this season the crowd are going to go for McLeish big time. It's just human nature.
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The trouble is now, that with all the best intentions in the world, if we go behind in any game this season the crowd are going to go for McLeish big time. It's just human nature.
Another reason why he should be sacked now.
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I think the time we get enough points to become safe is the time McLeish's reign will end.
Also if we don't.
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Was just thinking of the joyous day at Villa Park when the Dog Shit got relegated last season. Now one year on there is the possibility of them being in the Premiership and ourselves in the Championship and the entire events being down to one certain Alex MCleish. If this were to happen I'm sure we will all be saying we should have acted a whole lot sooner. Get the idiot out of Villa Park ASAP.
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Was just thinking of the joyous day at Villa Park when the Dog Shit got relegated last season. Now one year on there is the possibility of them being in the Premiership and ourselves in the Championship and the entire events being down to one certain Alex MCleish. If this were to happen I'm sure we will all be saying we should have acted a whole lot sooner. Get the idiot out of Villa Park ASAP.
I'll never struggle to explain irony to my kids now
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Was just thinking of the joyous day at Villa Park when the Dog Shit got relegated last season. Now one year on there is the possibility of them being in the Premiership and ourselves in the Championship and the entire events being down to one certain Alex MCleish. If this were to happen I'm sure we will all be saying we should have acted a whole lot sooner. Get the idiot out of Villa Park ASAP.
I think we put a curse on ourselves that day!
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Was just thinking of the joyous day at Villa Park when the Dog Shit got relegated last season. Now one year on there is the possibility of them being in the Premiership and ourselves in the Championship and the entire events being down to one certain Alex MCleish. If this were to happen I'm sure we will all be saying we should have acted a whole lot sooner. Get the idiot out of Villa Park ASAP.
I think we put a curse on ourselves that day!
As soon as he was appointed,all I could think about was that day.I knew then it would come back to haunt us