Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on December 12, 2011, 11:10:18 AM
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Poor displays this year
Senior players being vocal about training methods and coaching
He was fancied highly by a few on here
I actually think he is worse than Ginge - and thats saying something
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we dodged a bullet but got a bomb instead ;)
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Next up, Owen Coyle - did we dodge a bullet?
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Owen coyle - My Burnley mate is loving it ;)
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We may have dodged it but the next out the barrel hit us firmly between the eyes.
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It seems to be all bullets when it comes to choosing managers. What is the opposite of dodging a bullet anyway?
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How long ago was it that Fulham's approach to some game against a top team was being heralded on here as an example of what AM should be doing? Last week?
If I didn't know better I'd use that 'F' word.
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Id be more pissed off with Dempsey If I was a Fulham fan than Jol.
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Poor displays? They looked half decent to me against Liverpool.
Anyway, what is it with modern day footballers and "training methods" they don't appear to like? We had it last season with our lot apparently not liking GH's methods when it was clear the fitness of some of our players wasn't up to scratch.
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Owen coyle - My Burnley mate is loving it ;)
To be fair to Coyle, his Bolton side have seriously suffered with injuries.
As for Jol, last I heard the pundits were singing his praises saying he had Fulham playing some good stuff.
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Poor displays? They looked half decent to me against Liverpool.
Anyway, what is it with modern day footballers and "training methods" they don't appear to like? We had it last season with our lot apparently not liking GH's methods when it was clear the fitness of some of our players wasn't up to scratch.
I thought they looked pretty good v spurzzz too .
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Fulham are essentially the same squad of players that they've been for the past 2-3 seasons, so he can't claim much credit for the way they play. If he's managed to upset his players that's just poor management, however pampered they might be.
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We may have dodged it but the next out the barrel hit us firmly between the eyes.
We're like that scene in Saving Private Ryan, were the soldier takes a bullet in the helmet, takes off the helmet to look at it whilst thanking his lucky stars & then gets shot right between the eyes.
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It seems to be all bullets when it comes to choosing managers. What is the opposite of dodging a bullet anyway?
Surviving ;)
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Poor displays? They looked half decent to me against Liverpool.
Anyway, what is it with modern day footballers and "training methods" they don't appear to like? We had it last season with our lot apparently not liking GH's methods when it was clear the fitness of some of our players wasn't up to scratch.
The fitness thing has been there for a few years now. I remember John Terry saying that Chelsea waited for the 60th minute mark against us as they knew we'd get tired.
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We may have dodged it but the next out the barrel hit us firmly between the eyes.
We're like that scene in Saving Private Ryan, were the soldier takes a bullet in the helmet, takes off the helmet to look at it whilst thanking his lucky stars & then gets shot right between the eyes.
very good
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Fulham are essentially the same squad of players that they've been for the past 2-3 seasons, so he can't claim much credit for the way they play.
Very true. In the same way McLeish can't take too much of the blame for the way we play.
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Speak to any Ajax fan about Jol and they will say in unison 'We told you so'
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Poor displays? They looked half decent to me against Liverpool.
Anyway, what is it with modern day footballers and "training methods" they don't appear to like? We had it last season with our lot apparently not liking GH's methods when it was clear the fitness of some of our players wasn't up to scratch.
The fitness thing has been there for a few years now. I remember John Terry saying that Chelsea waited for the 60th minute mark against us as they knew we'd get tired.
I remember that, then I remembered that we had a good record against them and recalled him having a tantrum kicking the post after conceding at VP and thought "what a lying twat".
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Fulham are essentially the same squad of players that they've been for the past 2-3 seasons, so he can't claim much credit for the way they play.
Very true. In the same way McLeish can't take too much of the blame for the way we play.
Not the same. As I said, he inherited a squad that largely had been together for a while, it would have been different if he'd had to sell Murphy, Dempsey and Etuhu.
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Next up, Owen Coyle - did we dodge a bullet?
I never really got the love-in for him last season. He had Bolton around the top six - eight for a few months, then they finished 14th.
Same as the risible Sunderland fans talking about "Bent leaving a top six club", based on them being in the top six in January.
The other week I saw in one of the papers some utter pap about Alan Pardew having a good shout to be the next England manager. Ridiculous.
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Poor displays this year
Senior players being vocal about training methods and coaching
He was fancied highly by a few on here
I actually think he is worse than Ginge - and thats saying something
Sounds like Houllier situation last season, a period which many are now looking back on with a certain fondness.
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Did we dodge a bullet? No. We need to settle down and see where we both finish this season. AM still has a lot to prove here.
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Next up, Owen Coyle - did we dodge a bullet?
I never really got the love-in for him last season. He had Bolton around the top six - eight for a few months, then they finished 14th.
Same as the risible Sunderland fans talking about "Bent leaving a top six club", based on them being in the top six in January.
The other week I saw in one of the papers some utter pap about Alan Pardew having a good shout to be the next England manager. Ridiculous.
Me neither.
As for Pardew, I have an irrational dislike for him. He always seems to have a gigantic ego with not a lot to back it up with.
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Poor displays? They looked half decent to me against Liverpool.
Anyway, what is it with modern day footballers and "training methods" they don't appear to like? We had it last season with our lot apparently not liking GH's methods when it was clear the fitness of some of our players wasn't up to scratch.
The fitness thing has been there for a few years now. I remember John Terry saying that Chelsea waited for the 60th minute mark against us as they knew we'd get tired.
I remember that, then I remembered that we had a good record against them and recalled him having a tantrum kicking the post after conceding at VP and thought "what a lying twat".
Pretty sure you're misremembering that. He said it a year and a half ago after they hammered us 7-1 and before they beat us 3-0 in the semi-final of the FA Cup when they scored two late goals which didn't exactly disprove his point.
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The fitness thing has been there for a few years now. I remember John Terry saying that Chelsea waited for the 60th minute mark against us as they knew we'd get tired.
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The tempo MON had us playing at for the first hour in most games was never sustainable. If we weren't a couple of goals up we'd struggle over the last 20 & he'd rarely rest or substitute anyone. Doesn't take much to work Terry's comment out.
I remember that, then I remembered that we had a good record against them and recalled him having a tantrum kicking the post after conceding at VP and thought "what a lying twat".
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Pretty sure you're misremembering that. He said it a year and a half ago after they hammered us 7-1 and before they beat us 3-0 in the semi-final of the FA Cup when they scored two late goals which didn't exactly disprove his point.
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The tempo MON had us playing at for the first hour in most games was never sustainable.
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It's possible Jol is suffering a bit of Dunne/Collins syndrome, trying to apply continental methods to players with a very British mentality who want to stay in the technique and fitness free comfort zone they've enjoyed under British bosses. I rate him as a manager and I think Fulham will do okay eventually.
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Poor displays this year
Senior players being vocal about training methods and coaching
He was fancied highly by a few on here
I actually think he is worse than Ginge - and thats saying something
Sounds like Houllier situation last season, a period which many are now looking back on with a certain fondness.
I don't look back on that with any fondness. Houllier had better players at his disposal than McLeish and the board backed him with cash in January. McLeish has been asked to work on a shoestring and has lost the likes of Ashley young, Luke Young and Dirty D (not saying Dirty D was a great player, but still, the fact that we lost two 'big players' and didn't replace both reduced Mcleish's prospects).On balance, Mcleish has done a better job than Houllier.
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It's possible Jol is suffering a bit of Dunne/Collins syndrome, trying to apply continental methods to players with a very British mentality who want to stay in the technique and fitness free comfort zone they've enjoyed under British bosses. I rate him as a manager and I think Fulham will do okay eventually.
Totally agree. In the long term they will benefit for this appointment.
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Poor displays this year
Senior players being vocal about training methods and coaching
He was fancied highly by a few on here
I actually think he is worse than Ginge - and thats saying something
Sounds like Houllier situation last season, a period which many are now looking back on with a certain fondness.
I don't look back on that with any fondness. Houllier had better players at his disposal than McLeish and the board backed him with cash in January. McLeish has been asked to work on a shoestring and has lost the likes of Ashley young, Luke Young and Dirty D (not saying Dirty D was a great player, but still, the fact that we lost two 'big players' and didn't replace both reduced Mcleish's prospects).On balance, Mcleish has done a better job than Houllier.
It's too early to make that call. Comparing the two home performances to ManUre, this season and last, they were worlds apart (I do acknowledge Young and Downing had great games in that match last season but we also had more inexperienced players on show that day than this season). McLeish had the easier fixtures at the start too.
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Houllier had a clue about passing, moving, creating chances etc. Eck struggles with that against anyone decent.
Eamonn, you are spot on with your JT comment timelines, and it was something we as fans had been bemoaning for months, and were appalled to hear a pro come out and say it directly.
Plus, if falling out with players is poor management, MON must have been a pretty rubbish one.
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It was not just the tempo that MON played at - it was his lack of substitutional ability and insistance on draining every inch out of the first XI that always killed our seasons.
A lot of the old school managers do the same thing - they have a cast iron starting 11 and then cover that with players for injuries and suspensions
Its the opposite with Fergie and Wenger where they rotate their squads very well - even if they get slammed for it for not taking the cups seriously
MON tried this once (Moscow) and got slated and it was the begining of the end for him.
Makes me realise there is only so much motivational team talks anyone can do - to really excel in this game the manager needs a superb knoweldge of the game either player recruitment or tactical awareness
In that instance there is not a lot between AM / MON - aprt from MONS team always went forward
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I dont get this I don't like the training method bollocks, I hate at work that they are constantly making me do stuff I don't want to do but they pay my wages, players would do well to remember this and realise they are bloody lucky to do what they do.
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Poor displays this year
Senior players being vocal about training methods and coaching
He was fancied highly by a few on here
I actually think he is worse than Ginge - and thats saying something
Sounds like Houllier situation last season, a period which many are now looking back on with a certain fondness.
I don't look back on that with any fondness. Houllier had better players at his disposal than McLeish and the board backed him with cash in January. McLeish has been asked to work on a shoestring and has lost the likes of Ashley young, Luke Young and Dirty D (not saying Dirty D was a great player, but still, the fact that we lost two 'big players' and didn't replace both reduced Mcleish's prospects).On balance, Mcleish has done a better job than Houllier.
It's too early to make that call. Comparing the two home performances to ManUre, this season and last, they were worlds apart (I do acknowledge Young and Downing had great games in that match last season but we also had more inexperienced players on show that day than this season). McLeish had the easier fixtures at the start too.
OK, it's too early to call but remember we were deeply in the brown stuff all season until we won our last two games with McAllister in charge. Losing so many players in the summer and not replacing them left an expectation we would be in the brown stuff this season and we have been ok. Granted we have tough fixtures coming up, but I can see us frustrating some of those sky four teams and having a few points to show for our efforts.
The low points this season have been against Spurs and Man U. How many low points had we last year? Every other weekend.
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Martin Jol is a fine coach a lot better that our man. He is doing a good job at Fulham. He is working with a smaller budget that us and arguably lesser players. Their win v Liverpool was good and they were unlucky against Swansea. So we didn't dodge a bullett in fact the bullett is embedded in our head with the choice Randy has made.
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I dont get this I don't like the training method bollocks, I hate at work that they are constantly making me do stuff I don't want to do but they pay my wages, players would do well to remember this and realise they are bloody lucky to do what they do.
well said. Bloody shysters the lot of them.
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Martin Jol is a fine coach a lot better that our man. He is doing a good job at Fulham. He is working with a smaller budget that us and arguably lesser players. Their win v Liverpool was good and they were unlucky against Swansea. So we didn't dodge a bullett in fact the bullett is embedded in our head with the choice Randy has made.
I'd argue the point about him having a smaller budget, unless Fulham also made a £20m+ transfer profit this summer.
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Martin Jol is a fine coach a lot better that our man. He is doing a good job at Fulham. He is working with a smaller budget that us and arguably lesser players. Their win v Liverpool was good and they were unlucky against Swansea. So we didn't dodge a bullett in fact the bullett is embedded in our head with the choice Randy has made.
We lost three quarters of our regular midfield in the summer, Jol has just had to carry on with the same players. He's had a much easier job of it and yet they're below us in the league.
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Yes they are below us and so they should be. We are a much bigger club. Yes we have lost some players but our current players are better than Fulham's.
Pound for pound Jol is doing better than McLeish.
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Yes they are below us and so they should be. We are a much bigger club. Yes we have lost some players but our current players are better than Fulham's.
Pound for pound Jol is doing better than McLeish.
Such comparisons are hard to make, unless it's the lower spending club above the bigger spending one. Where did they finish last season? We've gone backwards player wise, yet (so far at least) maintained the same league position.
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I think any manager is a success at Fulham if they never look like they're in serious danger of going down and progess in europe and Fulham look like they're comfortably on their way to both.
Jol is a bit like MON imo, can lift teams to a certain point like he did with Spurs when they kept on finishing 5th.
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Yes they are below us and so they should be. We are a much bigger club. Yes we have lost some players but our current players are better than Fulham's.
Pound for pound Jol is doing better than McLeish.
Such comparisons are hard to make, unless it's the lower spending club above the bigger spending one. Where did they finish last season? We've gone backwards player wise, yet (so far at least) maintained the same league position.
Below us last season. Any coach keeping Fulham in the PL deserves credit based on their resources. They are not comprable to us and that is why I think both Hughes and Jol would have been a better choice for us than Eck.
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I accept they should be below us, but my point is that when they are it's harder to guage how far, mainly as I don't really know too much about their budget or squad value. What I will say though, is that Jol inherited Hughes' squad and has done no better with them, where as Mcleish has inherited Houllier's, minus some key players and not been able to replace them, yet is still sitting where we were last season. OK, long way to go and we may ultimately finish lower than 9th, but as of right now I don't think it's right to say Jol has done better based on results.
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Yes they are below us and so they should be. We are a much bigger club. Yes we have lost some players but our current players are better than Fulham's.
Pound for pound Jol is doing better than McLeish.
Such comparisons are hard to make, unless it's the lower spending club above the bigger spending one. Where did they finish last season? We've gone backwards player wise, yet (so far at least) maintained the same league position.
Below us last season. Any coach keeping Fulham in the PL deserves credit based on their resources. They are not comprable to us and that is why I think both Hughes and Jol would have been a better choice for us than Eck.
Yet with more money, resources, local knowledge and better players Jol still did worse then Steve McClaren.
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Yes they are below us and so they should be. We are a much bigger club. Yes we have lost some players but our current players are better than Fulham's.
Pound for pound Jol is doing better than McLeish.
What has Jol done? Picked more or less the same side as Hughes, it's a piss easy job compared to the one McLeish has had.
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Not entirely supporting Mcleish but he had a lot more to do than Jol. And sitting higher than Fulham so the current position is in favour of Mcleish. Jol has the look of a manager who is not happy and i get the feeling he will not stay there long. This win at Bolton has just kept the fans and players level of hope high enough to start believeing we can can improve. We have got to support Mcleish as much as we can. This is "our" team and we need to protect it........
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Poor displays? They looked half decent to me against Liverpool.
Anyway, what is it with modern day footballers and "training methods" they don't appear to like? We had it last season with our lot apparently not liking GH's methods when it was clear the fitness of some of our players wasn't up to scratch.
The fitness thing has been there for a few years now. I remember John Terry saying that Chelsea waited for the 60th minute mark against us as they knew we'd get tired.
I remember that, then I remembered that we had a good record against them and recalled him having a tantrum kicking the post after conceding at VP and thought "what a lying twat".
Pretty sure you're misremembering that. He said it a year and a half ago after they hammered us 7-1 and before they beat us 3-0 in the semi-final of the FA Cup when they scored two late goals which didn't exactly disprove his point.
In fairness that day, the last 2 were scored when we were pushing for the equilizer, so that cant be put down to lack of fitness.
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I wonder if Martin Jol could dodge a bullet.
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Fulham have a smaller budget than us? How much was Ruiz? 10m? Hardly a mall budget.
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Jol's a decent manager but whether or not he was the right man to take over here in the summer is another thing. He certainly would have been a more natural replacement to Houllier, football wise but I think he very much fancied a return to London.
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Just seen Jol's ridiculous quote after last night's draw with Odense (remember them?):
"It is awful to go out of the competition the way we did but hopefully we gain something from the fact that we don't have to play Thursday matches."
This is coming from the manager of Fulham, a club who have won the square root of bugger all in their illustrious history. I know we're hardly in a position to talk, but at least we were going for another target at the time. What are Fulham aiming for?
I don't know why English clubs bother qualifying for the Europa League if they can't be arsed with it. Don't like either of them but at least Stoke and Small Heath are giving it a go.
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Just seen Jol's ridiculous quote after last night's draw with Odense (remember them?):
"It is awful to go out of the competition the way we did but hopefully we gain something from the fact that we don't have to play Thursday matches."
This is coming from the manager of Fulham, a club who have won the square root of bugger all in their illustrious history. I know we're hardly in a position to talk, but at least we were going for another target at the time. What are Fulham aiming for?
I don't know why English clubs bother qualifying for the Europa League if they can't be arsed with it. Don't like either of them but at least Stoke and Small Heath are giving it a go.
What amazes me is that UEFA doesn't see this. This competition doesn't have to be a league. It can be a knockout format like it used to be. The reduced games will provide greater quality. The Europa League isn't even a poor mans Champions League because the money is pathetic. It needs to be scrapped or completely revamped if they want any club to take it really seriously. And the whole thinkg about CL clubs dropping into it is even a bigger joke.
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Knockout only.
Less teams.
No Champions League dropouts.
Move to Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
Champions League place for the winner.
Rename UEFA Cup.
Competition sorted.
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Agreed Mellin.
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Dodge a bullet? He's only been there a few months.
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Knockout only.
Less teams.
No Champions League dropouts.
Move to Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
Champions League place for the winner.
Rename UEFA Cup.
Competition sorted.
Yep bang on. On the one hand getting a Champions League place kind of undermines the competition, but it's the only thing that can give it real meaning.
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Dodge a bullet? He's only been there a few months.
He's had as long as McLeish has, and some are writing him off already.
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Knockout only.
Less teams.
No Champions League dropouts.
Move to Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
Champions League place for the winner.
Rename UEFA Cup.
Competition sorted.
to think these out of touch old dinosaurs sit round a table drinking their free expensive wine , staying in 6 star hotels and they havent got the brains together to do this .
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Dodge a bullet? He's only been there a few months.
He's had as long as McLeish has, and some are writing him off already.
He's in the same boat as Mcleish then.
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Knockout only.
Less teams.
No Champions League dropouts.
Move to Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
Champions League place for the winner.
Rename UEFA Cup.
Competition sorted.
to think these out of touch old dinosaurs sit round a table drinking their free expensive wine , staying in 6 star hotels and they havent got the brains together to do this .
It's all part of the greater plan to familiarize Europe with all football teams even the unfashionable ones ....NK Maribor, Vorksla Pavlovla..Birmingham City.
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Knockout only.
Less teams.
No Champions League dropouts.
Move to Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
Champions League place for the winner.
Rename UEFA Cup.
Competition sorted.
And bring back the Cup Winners' Cup too.
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Dodge a bullet? He's only been there a few months.
He's had as long as McLeish has, and some are writing him off already.
Rather more than some, sir
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I wonder if Martin Jol could dodge a bullet.
Coffee spitting moment - :)
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Poor displays this year
Senior players being vocal about training methods and coaching
He was fancied highly by a few on here
I actually think he is worse than Ginge - and thats saying something
Dodged a bullet, then got shot in the face with a shot gun, then our dead headless corpse raped.
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No.
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He's a dirty ex-Albion wanker, but he looks very cuddly.
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Jol is a good manager for Fulham's level. Given our level is around Fulham's level (seeing as we're completely level with them in the league now) he's probably another in a very long list now of managers much more suited to us than McLeish.