Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on December 05, 2011, 11:12:28 AM
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http://www.thebirminghampress.com/2011/12/05/whatever-happened-to%E2%80%A6/
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I agree with you Dave in that I had a grudging respect when he was over the road at the knuckledraggers. I was as suprised as anyone when he was appointed but hating him because he managed them to me showed an evolutionary gap between the rest of us.
Im sure he was the only one we could get given the conditions of his employment specified by the Randy/Faulkner double act. Hover round mid table with the odd cup run while the bank balance is topped up due to Mon's expenditure in previous years, fans wont be happy but by the summer they will soon forget.
Only its not happening. We are getting Taylor MKII and the last season under Clueless DOL type football with fans draining away like ice under hot water. He cant seem to motivate or organise the team. I think its time to part company when we are bottom 3 by the New Year.
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I just worry that if we are in the bottom 3 come January,there will be another panic buy like last season.I'd rather any money provided would be used to pay AM off if we are in such a situation, as I worry that if we purchased that creative midfielder we all crave,they would not be utilised in the right way. He acquired Hleb and Bentley in Jan last year and then benched them for the rest of the season
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spot on .. 1oo% . It was how I felt when we got him in as manager , give him a chance , defence will be tighter , spirit will be better . It has become dire . blose mark II
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I just worry that if we are in the bottom 3 come January,there will be another panic buy like last season.I'd rather any money provided would be used to pay AM off if we are in such a situation, as I worry that if we purchased that creative midfielder we all crave,they would not be utilised in the right way. He acquired Hleb and Bentley in Jan last year and then benched them for the rest of the season
He signed Hleb the previous August. I think loan signings (at best) will be all we can expect this January.
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The only thing I'd question is the issue of sacking him already. I'm not normally the trigger happy sort and I was prepared to give him a chance when he joined. Whilst I normally agree that you should stick with people once they're appointed, I think in this case it just seems completely wrong on every level. I'm not sure that it's going to improve if we delay replacing him. Especially since we have a series of very tricky games coming up.
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I just worry that if we are in the bottom 3 come January,there will be another panic buy like last season.I'd rather any money provided would be used to pay AM off if we are in such a situation, as I worry that if we purchased that creative midfielder we all crave,they would not be utilised in the right way. He acquired Hleb and Bentley in Jan last year and then benched them for the rest of the season
He signed Hleb the previous August. I think loan signings (at best) will be all we can expect this January.
You're right just got this off Wiki.Take note of the final sentence
On 31 August 2010, Hleb returned to England by signing a season-long loan deal with Premier League club Birmingham City.[14] An ankle injury sustained on international duty delayed his debut until 18 September, when he played 83 minutes in a 3–1 defeat at West Bromwich Albion.[15][16] Three days later he opened the scoring as Birmingham beat MK Dons 3–1 in the League Cup.[17] Injury disrupted his season, forcing him to miss Birmingham's victory over Arsenal in the League Cup Final. Towards the end of the season he ruled out a return to the club once his loan expired, suggesting that their style of football was not to his taste, although he wanted to remain in the Premier League, ideally at Arsenal.[18][19]
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Blose scored 37 goals in 38 games last season . What did we really expect ?
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He may look like a countryman at the casino, but in a sense that's what got us sniffing Champions league. That attitude hasn't spilled over to the team though, and now it's almost as if the players think they are better than Aston Villa.
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I agree to an extent but not about the defence. We've had a few dodgy moments but we're not nearly as bad as in the first half of last season. I thought they deserved credit for keeping it down to 1 on Saturday and it was a clean sheet the week before. The problem is we create so little, we lostyoing and Disning and their replacements have provided next to nothing.
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Like I said on another thread
I think Blose only won 2 games last season against a Top 10 side , which was a complete fluke against Chelsea and Sunderland at home . exactly how it is panning out for us this season .
How Lerner and Faulkner did not notice simple statistics like this !!!!
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I agree to an extent but not about the defence. We've had a few dodgy moments but we're not nearly as bad as in the first half of last season. I thought they deserved credit for keeping it down to 1 on Saturday and it was a clean sheet the week before. The problem is we create so little, we lostyoing and Disning and their replacements have provided next to nothing.
I think ManU were in similar mode to Spurs though.They knew we carried absolutely no threat so didn't even get out of third gear
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I agree to an extent but not about the defence. We've had a few dodgy moments but we're not nearly as bad as in the first half of last season. I thought they deserved credit for keeping it down to 1 on Saturday and it was a clean sheet the week before. The problem is we create so little, we lostyoing and Disning and their replacements have provided next to nothing.
Keeping the score down is all well and good if you look like you're going to get back into it, which we did'nt.
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Hmm, I don't know. I think teams are opening us up pretty easily now. The defence made a decent start to this season but the last few games we've looked vulnerable. The goal on Saturday was poor: Jones standing between three of our defenders but still got there first.
The article makes a strong point. Few of us (if any) expected exciting, flair-filled football under McLeish but did expect us to be competitive, defensively strong, well organised. Not seeing much of that so far.
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Dire Dire Dire. We are going down this season.
The problems are multifold - we have to sack him before transfer window otherwise it will be too late - the way they stuck with Clueless Houllier and Gary McDuff last year.
If we do sack him I have a horrible feeling our dynamic senior leadership (or those who pass for it) will appoint Bruce or McCLaren such is their track record.
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Can't argue with anything you've written in that article, Dave.
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I was also wondering where the McLeish that was combative had gone good article Dave some valid points.
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I agree to an extent but not about the defence. We've had a few dodgy moments but we're not nearly as bad as in the first half of last season. I thought they deserved credit for keeping it down to 1 on Saturday and it was a clean sheet the week before. The problem is we create so little, we lostyoing and Disning and their replacements have provided next to nothing.
It's noticable that the players we've lost were creative (Young, Milner & Downing) and two of of top three signings since MON left have been creative players that have failed to deliver - Ireland and N'Zogbia.
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I wasn't one going berzerk in the summer when McLeish was appointed. But, I'm struggling now to find any positives. Really struggling. My faith and patience has almost gone. I'm scared shitless of what could happen.
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Spot on, Dave. The main question is: Why on earth can't the players, especially in midfield, keep and pass the ball anymore? AM said that they do it in training, but the build-up play and those awful stats about Darren Bent (e.g. no touches in MU's penalty area until the umpteenth minute) mean that Villa never even look like scoring.
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Good article Dave and I do wonder if McLeish is regretting taking the job on? It would not surprise me if the goalposts have been moved by Lerner since he took the job in terms of money he would have to play with, not selling Downing and then selling him (he stated that when he met fans before the season start). Add in the negative feeling towards him from the fanbase and the big one - not realising what a bunch of uncaring tosspots he had in his squad before arriving.
I think the squad needs a complete overhaul and could count on less than one had the players I would keep. I don't think he will get the support he needs or the time required to do this so can only see it ending in us going down.
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Good article Dave and I do wonder if McLeish is regretting taking the job on? It would not surprise me if the goalposts have been moved by Lerner since he took the job in terms of money he would have to play with, not selling Downing and then selling him (he stated that when he met fans before the season start). Add in the negative feeling towards him from the fanbase and the big one - not realising what a bunch of uncaring tosspots he had in his squad before arriving.
I think the squad needs a complete overhaul and could count on less than one had the players I would keep. I don't think he will get the support he needs or the time required to do this so can only see it ending in us going down.
Mcleish will not be regretting taking the job on.
Firstly, he will consider himself very fortunate that an established top half premier league club would employ him after taking a team down. Secondly, he doubled his wages. Even if fired his pay off will be a great comfort to him.
I'm not sure Mcleish can feel surprised about the supporters reaction either. It was obvious when he was in the frame that he wasn't going to be a popular choice.
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Spot on the money Dave.
Is McLeish just out of his depth at villa? Do the players respect him?
The worst thing for me is the way Bent has to run around aimlessly in the final third with no support. Bent must be really pissed off.
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I'm really concerned about Bent. Our wingers looked like they were set up to defend against Man Utd's wide men. He looked marginally pissed off and bored that he wasn't getting any service. He had to try and win balls in the air against Vidic. There's no chance of that happening. When he did get the ball it was never in the box. He had to drop deep to keep possession of the ball.
I reckon Bent will hand in his transfer this January. I'm pretty confident that will happen, especially if Liverpool tap him up, which they could do seeing as the one aspect they're lacking is clinical finishing and Bent will provide that. The board won't hesitate to sell him as long as they'll get a reasonable fee and Liverpool would be able to afford him. Then our board will turn round and say he wanted to leave, they wanted to keep him and nothing they could do. The same jail free card they used about Downing.
And this will suit Alex McLeish just fine because I don't even think he wants Bent in the team, but knows he'll get a backlash from the fans so just keeps him on the pitch for the sake of it. I think it's becoming evident each passing day he wants every player to drop deep and work their magic up the pitch. Gabby is able to do it well but everyone else is struggling. It's time to try something else.
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Blimey, and I thought I was depressed about the Villa.
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Bent will have dozens of gsme like that in his career, it's always been the lot of that type of striker that if they aren't getting the service they can look ineffective and cheesed off.
It should be remembered that other than a wrongly awarded penalty against Newcastle, Manu have not conceded in the last 5 but have only scored one in each of them. Saturday was a typical performance for them since they got hammered by Man City.
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Very good article but I've seen that phrase ''worst United side at VP in years'' bandied about a lot since Saturday and I can't agree. We seem to say it every year they come here, recently. Last year's was shite and no wonder we were 2-0 up with a team of kids etc.
United had quality on display last Saturday and they showed it in patches, not needing to expand much more as they were comfortable at one-nil.
We were awful no doubt, but we were beaten by one of the best sides in Europe in an indifferent period of form just now.
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interesting points made there. one i would like to make is this:
Billy McNeil, possibly the worst manager in the club's history was waiting for the Celtic job.
Alex McLeish, who could on the face of it this season could turn out to be nearly as bad as McNeill. So what is he waiting for? At present he is the 'managing' Aston Villa FC as dictionary definition only.
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Very good article but I've seen that phrase ''worst United side at VP in years'' bandied about a lot since Saturday and I can't agree. We seem to say it every year they come here, recently. Last year's was shite and no wonder we were 2-0 up with a team of kids etc.
United had quality on display last Saturday and they showed it in patches, not needing to expand much more as they were comfortable at one-nil.
We were awful no doubt, but we were beaten by one of the best sides in Europe in an indifferent period of form just now.
They may well be one of the best sides in europe but they certainly didn't have to play like it. They seemed genuinely bemused we were so poor for most of the game - Its very hard to raise your game if you've got nothing to raise it against. Even shit struggling teams at home usually manage to mount a bit of meaningful pressure against them even if it's ineffective - first half we couldn't even manage that and the main concern their defence had was keeping awake.
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I'm not sure what's wrong with setting a precedent if it's the precedent for getting rid of managers who are simply not up to the job and deliver dire football. If something is clearly wrong, it's best to fix it asap. Most of us knew it was wrong before he was even appointed (and no I didn't have any respect for McLeish as a manager while he was at Blues, because he played dire anti-football there as well), now he's in the process of ramming the point home to the detriment of the club. As most of us suspected he would, based on his track record. I can't think why some people think this particular leaopard will ever change his spots. I'd be quite happy if RL got shot of him today, assuming he didn't appoint someone equally inept in his place.
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The stuff about Manu is missing an important point. Since they got stuffed in the derby they have won every game 1-0 save for Newcastle who were wrongly awarded a penalty and drew 1-1. They have made the type of performance we saw on Saturday their normal way to play. They weren't poor just ruthlessly efficient.
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Agree with Chris. Man Utd were great at the start of the season, such as putting 8 past Arsenal, but since Man City bitch slapped them they've reverted to a more reserved style and been grinding out results.
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Could Mcleish be the worst appointment in living memory? I'm beginning to think so! If we go back to the sacking of Tony Barton, then the appointment of Graham Turner takes some beating! We'd been European Champions a few years before, so to hire Turner is like the equivalent of Manure replacing SAF with Dario Gradi. Inexplicable. Billy McNeil was totally shite, but by then the damage was done! Josef Venglos was a bold gamble and in many ways a manager ahead of his time, but unfortunately for us it nearly relegated us. David O'Leary was a complete cock, but was having to deal with Deadly Doug's financial cut backs must have been difficult. The main problem with O'Leary was his bloody arrogance and belittling nature. Houllier was utter crap, and it was only good fortune that we actually survived relegatio. To be fair though his previoys CV was reasonably impressive. McLeish though I just can't fathom. Anti football at the sty. Two relegations. And what made Randy think he would ever be excepted. The only way he could ever win over the fans woul be to play expansive attacking football and to win trophies on a regular basis. But what we are seeing now is utter garbage. It's like we've been transported back to the stone ages metaphorically speaking in football terms. So for me I would put Mcleish as the number 1 worst appointment since the early 80s, followed closely by Turner and in third place Mcneil. Action needs to be taken now! Before it's too late.