Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: MarkM on November 28, 2011, 11:49:22 AM
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The words transitional season have been mentioned allot on this site over the past 2 seasons!
But I don't think we are in transition, I think we are at our final destination and the transition has already happened.
If you look at our league position, we are hovering around 8th, which is more or less as high as we can expect to finish.
The following teams will [unless it gets a bit chilly in hell] finish above us most seasons...
Man Utd
Man City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
Spurs
Then we have another two teams who will finish around us:
Newcastle
Everton
That puts us in the positions 7th - 9th so our current 8th is about right.
Managers will come and go, as will players but unless a massive amount of cash is injected into Villa, the top four or five bugger off to a European League or God miracles us to the top, we are just about where we are going to be for the foreseable future.
So we are not in transition, that has already happened. The transition was froma potential top four club to a 7th - 9th club
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What law says the teams above us (or below, for that matter) always will be?
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Spurs don't finish above us most seasons. In fact, since football was invented in 1992, I believe we've actually finished above them more often than the other way around.
One thing I do think is true, is that if we are being set up to live within our means, then we're never going to be able to compete, as the funding just will not be there.
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We've lost the creative heart of our team over the past 18 months plus several others, there are more players coming to the end of their contracts and we're on our 3rd manager in a season and a third. What other clubs are or aren't doing is irrelevant, we as a team are changing and the accepted term for that in football is transition.
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What law says the teams above us (or below, for that matter) always will be?
I agree with this. Football has always been a bit up and down. If you had asked me about 5 or 6 years ago I would have said the title would be between Arsenal and ManU. now arsenal havent won anything for 5 years. If you had asked me about 8 years ago I would have said Chelsea have no chance. This year I think Man City will win it. And I hope they do. See the thing is too much money comes from the European cup and I think if either Arsenal, Chelsea or Manu dont qualify one year, the money, well the city, will start putting their money elsewhere. Thats when things can change
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What law says the teams above us (or below, for that matter) always will be?
Thier is no law that says that, but looking at the current situation that we find ourselves in you can't argue the fact that we have fallen away from the top six or seven
If you can honestly say that in the next few seasons we will catch up with the likes of Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool and yes even Spurs who are currently far and away a better side than we are, then you must have access to some information that I don't!
Being realistic that would put is at most 7th, and you are right that we are not assured of finishing above any of the teams below us. We have to hope that we are better than the Wolves, Blackburns and Boltons of the league. But if the way we play at the moment continues then we may not even be good enough to finish around 8th.
The money in the PL has skewed the chances of success in favour of a few, and unfortunately we are not one of the few, we are one of the many
I don't support Villa to follow success [if I did I would have given up a long time ago] I follow them because my dad did, and his dad did, because I have enjoyed comming to Villa Park and watching my team.
I can deal with being one of the also rans but unfortunately for me, the way we play and the way that makes my feel about my club, not to mention the cost! is fast making me turn my back on football and I seriously doubt I will commit to a seson ticket next year.
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I must pinch myself, I find I'm agreeing with Paul,Dave and Chris smith on pretty much everything here
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True Chris. But this 'transition' is taking too long in the true definition of the word. It has also been blited by incorrect/unlucky Manager and coaching staff changes. In fact who is to say it won't happen again in the near future.
We don't actually need any more transition -we need an overhaul. Bring in the kids who have the real potential, inculcate a playing style and tactical blueprint for all our teams, youth to First.
Sell, loan players beyond their sell by date.
It really is time for some brave, decisive moves and I am only sad that we made the choice of AMC to oversee it.
If we don't then we will 'transition' into a mid table team at best instead of following erstwhile competitors Spuds into the big time. Or worse of course.
Can't help feeling we should have gone for a younger manager with DoF. Oh well. Just my humble opinion.
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We need some direction from the top. Paul Faulkner needs to go & a 'Villa' man needs to come in along side Randy. Graham Taylor?
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'Transition' is the new buzz term that means we are cutting the purse strings.
The last buzz term for this was 'Crop of Young players Coming Through'.
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We've lost the creative heart of our team over the past 18 months plus several others, there are more players coming to the end of their contracts and we're on our 3rd manager in a season and a third. What other clubs are or aren't doing is irrelevant, we as a team are changing and the accepted term for that in football is transition.
The question Chris is if we are in transition then... "We are transitioning into what?"
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We've lost the creative heart of our team over the past 18 months plus several others, there are more players coming to the end of their contracts and we're on our 3rd manager in a season and a third. What other clubs are or aren't doing is irrelevant, we as a team are changing and the accepted term for that in football is transition.
I sincerely hope you are correct and that come the end of this season we ship out a number of these players and build a new team around Gabby, Bent, Bannan, Clark and Given, because I am finding it very difficult to muster anything other than utter apathy to many of our current squad.
As someone said on the post-Swansea thread it feels like some strangers have nicked our shirts and are now playing in them.
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"Crop of Young players coming through" is fine by me. We have them. After all we must also have one of the oldest core players in the Prem.
The Club/team really needs a shake up immediately instead of playing for a draw/ mid table. It is the same bloody thing.
RL and Faulkner need to take this club by the short curly stuff and define a real season by season plan to ultimately put us in line for a top five and or possible cup competitors. Not some nebulous five year plan but six months by six months and bring those kids in. Bring in up and coming coaches. Negotiate loans if necy. But start again. Joe Mercer like. Give the crowd something to support and believe in and manage the expectations. I'd support a young team busting a gut and ending in mid table if I knew it can only get better.
Better than this turgid, no hope, WTF is it all about crap. It's like watching repeats of Dad's Army at the moment. With another Scot telling us 'we are dooooomed I tell ye".
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I sincerely hope you are correct and that come the end of this season we ship out a number of these players and build a new team around Gabby, Bent, Bannan, Clark and Given, because I am finding it very difficult to muster anything other than utter apathy to many of our current squad.
I wouldn't necessarily build the team around Benty. A season of hopelessly chasing long balls on his own like yesterday and he'll be off like a shot in the summer before his reputation is irreperably damaged.
As for transition, we must be. We've got a manager who's been in post for less than 6 months and has hardly signed any players. You can't say he's got us to where he wants us to be.
That said, when the transition's over I think 8th in the league plus a cup run is about the best we can hope for. We haven't finished any higher than 6th since well before Roman Abramovich broke the Premier League. The financial fair play rules are just going to bolt the door on the closed shop of the Champions League so short of fundamental rule changes or a catastophic financial event (Sky going bust?!) I can't see our lot get any better in the short to medium term.
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Give the crowd something to support and believe in and manage the expectations. I'd support a young team busting a gut and ending in mid table if I knew it can only get better.
Better than this turgid, no hope, WTF is it all about crap.
I think for many of us that would be an acceptable situation given the current football economic circumstances. I sincerely hope that come the end of this season we have a very large culling of players and build a team around a select few because right now I see many too players in claret and blue of whom my first thought is ‘why are you besmirching the sacred colours of my team.’
I’ve heard a lot of talk about the Ajax approach with a focus on English youth and it is certainly something I would wholeheartedly endorse as long as we don’t inherit Ajax’s ability to allow the off-field politics to totally overshadow the on-field business
If this is indeed the approach we have decided to take then I guess the secondary question would always be ‘Is AMcL the right man to drive this kind of change through?’
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We've lost the creative heart of our team over the past 18 months plus several others, there are more players coming to the end of their contracts and we're on our 3rd manager in a season and a third. What other clubs are or aren't doing is irrelevant, we as a team are changing and the accepted term for that in football is transition.
The question Chris is if we are in transition then... "We are transitioning into what?"
That's the 64 million Euro question.
Do we take what Randy and Faulkner have said recently at face value, that they're still ambitious or do we accept the alternative view put forward on here that they've given up?
As I've said before, although it's been tested over the past 12 months or so they've still put enough in the goodwill bank for me to give them the benefit of the doubt (for now).
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Nah, we're not in transition any more. We're treading water at best.
Under Houllier, we were in transition from a counter-attacking long ball side to a continental keep-ball side, a process that was sadly not completed. Now, however, I cannot see any transition, because we don't appear to be going anywhere. Unless of course, Gingescotti is planning on transiting us straight into the Championship.
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Nah, we're not in transition any more. We're treading water at best.
Under Houllier, we were in transition from a counter-attacking long ball side to a continental keep-ball side, a process that was sadly not completed. Now, however, I cannot see any transition, because we don't appear to be going anywhere. Unless of course, Gingescotti is planning on transiting us straight into the Championship.
Or perhaps he is transitioning us from
Aston Villa FC
to...
Birmingham City FC
Its hard to tell the difference at the moment
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We've lost the creative heart of our team over the past 18 months plus several others, there are more players coming to the end of their contracts and we're on our 3rd manager in a season and a third. What other clubs are or aren't doing is irrelevant, we as a team are changing and the accepted term for that in football is transition.
The question Chris is if we are in transition then... "We are transitioning into what?"
That's the 64 million Euro question.
Do we take what Randy and Faulkner have said recently at face value, that they're still ambitious or do we accept the alternative view put forward on here that they've given up?
As I've said before, although it's been tested over the past 12 months or so they've still put enough in the goodwill bank for me to give them the benefit of the doubt (for now).
It's one thing to say we're still ambitious, it is another thing entirely to prove it.
The course of events for almost a year now, and the stuff coming out of the club - including last week from the manager himself - all points to a lack of ambition.
I get the thing about being in transition - we are certainly that, it is just that there's not much evidence to suggest it's a transition to a good place.
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We've lost the creative heart of our team over the past 18 months plus several others, there are more players coming to the end of their contracts and we're on our 3rd manager in a season and a third. What other clubs are or aren't doing is irrelevant, we as a team are changing and the accepted term for that in football is transition.
The question Chris is if we are in transition then... "We are transitioning into what?"
A Deloitte's top twenty team.
Didn't you know?
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We are already a Deloitte Top Twenty team.
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If we are in transition I hope it happens soon because any more performance like the ones we have been witnessing and I'm sure my nerves won't be able to take anymore.
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It really is time for some brave, decisive moves and I am only sad that we made the choice of AMC to oversee it.
If this is indeed the approach we have decided to take then I guess the secondary question would always be ‘Is AMcL the right man to drive this kind of change through?’
This is the crux of the problem for me. We are in transition in so much as we're transitioning (?) from a top 6 team capable of giving the bigger boys the occasional bloody nose in one off games to the epitome of mid table mediocrity who simply don't bother competing against our "betters" in the league (see last Monday)
This perhaps was inevitable given we were seemingly living beyond our means. What seems so surprising is that the man chosen to lead us into this brave new world is Alex bloody McLeish. Honestly, what did the board expect?
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I agree that there is enough in the good will tank (for now) but any honeymoon Alex had is just about done after the Spurs Game. It might get very messy at VP in the near future. He is not the man to take on a complete re-design. Exact opposite in fact.
No, this club needs a strong hand, some hard choices and some new style bravery. Until it is no longer evolutionary transition but complete rebirth.
We need, truly need, a revolution and resolution before we become even more apathetic. From the top. And Alex, old school, cannot do that or be part of it.
Randy- you need to take hold mate. Produce a road map and drive it and employ people who can also drive it. IMHO
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It really is time for some brave, decisive moves and I am only sad that we made the choice of AMC to oversee it.
If this is indeed the approach we have decided to take then I guess the secondary question would always be ‘Is AMcL the right man to drive this kind of change through?’
This is the crux of the problem for me. We are in transition in so much as we're transitioning (?) from a top 6 team capable of giving the bigger boys the occasional bloody nose in one off games to the epitome of mid table mediocrity who simply don't bother competing against our "betters" in the league (see last Monday)
This perhaps was inevitable given we were seemingly living beyond our means. What seems so surprising is that the man chosen to lead us into this brave new world is Alex bloody McLeish. Honestly, what did the board expect?
Meanwood I felt as soon as AM was appointed he was a fall guy.
A bloke who would think "bugger me with my limited talent this is the best job i can ever hope for" I'll do whatever the board tell me.
For me we are not in transition we are treading water but someone's letting our amrbands down
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We've lost the creative heart of our team over the past 18 months plus several others, there are more players coming to the end of their contracts and we're on our 3rd manager in a season and a third. What other clubs are or aren't doing is irrelevant, we as a team are changing and the accepted term for that in football is transition.
The question Chris is if we are in transition then... "We are transitioning into what?"
A Deloitte's top twenty team.
Didn't you know?
We are already a Deloitte Top Twenty team.
Some years.
But never before has it been stated as the limit of the Club's ambitions.
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Over the next couple of years anything could happen. I expect/hope our young lads plus some shrewd new signings will have Villa moving up the table over the next couple of years. Running alongside that I expect to see 'Arry leave Spurs and the Liverpool "project" to start shipping a bit of water. As I've said, anything can happen. The vital thing is that Randy finds his mojo once more and injects a sense of ambition and direction into the club. Hopefully there is a real plan in place and we will be back on an upward cycle whilst some of the others above us start dipping in their cycles. (That is, after all, why they are currently above us - their periods of investment coinciding with a period of non-investment for us.)
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I agree that there is enough in the good will tank (for now) but any honeymoon Alex had is just about done after the Spurs Game. It might get very messy at VP in the near future. He is not the man to take on a complete re-design. Exact opposite in fact.
No, this club needs a strong hand, some hard choices and some new style bravery. Until it is no longer evolutionary transition but complete rebirth.
We need, truly need, a revolution and resolution before we become even more apathetic. From the top. And Alex, old school, cannot do that or be part of it.
Randy- you need to take hold mate. Produce a road map and drive it and employ people who can also drive it. IMHO
quite simply nail on head
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We are going from being 'boring Villa' to 'boring boring Villa' so, yes, definitely a transitionary stage I think. As far as my 50 years (tomorrow!) of being a Villa fan goes however, it is no transition at all. Get to a position of promise and then throw it all away. I must have seen that in each decade of my life bar the 60s and more than once in some decades!
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Richard: Happy Birthday tomorrow!
True we have done it often and more often still, missed an opportunity, We got Dougiefied.
But you will remember Richard when Docherty had us painting the stands. We started again.
Even Gregory gave us a chance until his gung ho approach became the 'two bob' team in the 2000 Chelsea Cup final. We were top of the League and he got no support to move to the next level.
Mercer brought in his 'minors'.
I dunno. I just think that this hiatus is the time for strong management to say : "Enough!" We really do create the bright future and for that we need to bring in the youngsters where appropriate, employ a Villa type Management staff (GC plus GT?) and get rid of this old style thinking. We have nothing to lose frankly.
The supporters, when up against it, but with a proper vision are the best in the land. See Div. 3.
But for God's sake give us a vision and a battle to fight not this gentle suicide and lack of self respect.
"..position of promise and throw it away". We are not in that position of promise are we? So let's create one and NOT throw it away.
Blimey I am on a soap box today. Sorry.
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Thanks Simba, rousing stuff. Not sure GT is the essence of new style thinking about football but your general gist is very much in the right direction. It would be lovely to be thought of as playing really attractive football game in, game out with really exciting youngsters at the helm. Of course, it is more complicated than that - Man City would just buy them all up regardless - but it is a nice thought and far more appetising than any notion of Heskey, Hutton, Collins, Warnock et al...
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Thanks Simba, rousing stuff. Not sure GT is the essence of new style thinking about football but your general gist is very much in the right direction. It would be lovely to be thought of as playing really attractive football game in, game out with really exciting youngsters at the helm. Of course, it is more complicated than that - Man City would just buy them all up regardless - but it is a nice thought and far more appetising than any notion of Heskey, Hutton, Collins, Warnock et al...
The point you make about our youngsters and Man City buying them all up is a good one, Richard. I would hope, as part of our planning, we would have a strategy in place whereby our lads would stick with us. This type of thing has to be a strand of our long-term planning. I know very little about the laws governing football, wages and so on, but I hope we have a bit of vision at the club in order to think outside the box and keep a winning young side together for years to come.
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You are right about GT of course. But I would love to find a true Villa man, Cowans or someone to re-start with perhaps an older head ( not tactics necessarily but man management issues particularly) to see him through. With Gabby as our Villa man on the pitch and the Bannans, Herds, Gardners, etc surrounded by experience we could at least have the Holte shaking the roof again. Amazing what it can do. And we do have reserve and youth coaches who can win games. With style. See Next gen.
Whoever said it was right: it is like someone nicked our kit..atm.
First rule in this Utopian declaration of independance, Richard, is "no cynicism" so no, we don't let Man City nick them. If 'arry can hold on to Modric we can hold onto the Youngs of the World.
I am off to make supper.
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I don't see any reason for us to be in that much of a tranisitional period on the pitch. We've got players at the club already who could turn us into a decent premiership team, if we had a manager who was brave enough to use them.
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....."if we had a manager who was brave enough to use them". We are the 99%.
and a vision that insisted this forward thinking manager do so without depriving him of his job in the short term.
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Oh, and thanks Mark for the thread. Steam venter and dream creator combined.
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It's all very well doing the rabble rousing, we are Villa stuff but it's totally meaningless. The truth is there are few people alive who have witnessed us win the league more than once. We're a club that averages around 35k on the PL era, decent but not great. What other than a sense of our one history entitles us to anything? It's like a bloke who used to be a bit of a hit with the ladies who has let himself go but still thinking he can pull anyone.
I honestly think that a section of our support is in denial about our place in the scene of things and the financial reality that the club are now working to.
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It's all very well doing the rabble rousing, we are Villa stuff but it's totally meaningless. The truth is there are few people alive who have witnessed us win the league more than once. We're a club that averages around 35k on the PL era, decent but not great. What other than a sense of our one history entitles us to anything? It's like a bloke who used to be a bit of a hit with the ladies who has let himself go but still thinking he can pull anyone.
I honestly think that a section of our support is in denial about our place in the scene of things and the financial reality that the club are now working to.
I do not see any harm in having pride in the club and expecting/hoping for some success. The majority of supporters are aware that winning the Premier League is beyond us. However, we deserve to have better than AM as manager.
And as for rabble-rousing, it has been the owner and CEO who have attempted to rouse the supporters with our past successes. Sadly, they did not take that enthusiasm into the managerial search.
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Hi Chris,
Yes I was waiting for this one.
Meaningless. Of course, as the comment on this thread cannot effect the decisions within the club.
Denial. No, all of us know where we are.
Entitlement. We have won very little in ninety years. Is that what you mean?
Rabble rousing. Yes guilty.
So, a thread asks quite 'where we are". And we have some fun demanding change. On terms we cannot control but wtf. Still, we create a dream scenario for fun and you do the usual and condemn it on the basis of, what ? Current fact. Well done.
Anyone can condemn on that basis. And if the dreamers took notice we would not have the good things that make life worthwhile. Oh shit, you burk, what is that stupid round thing? A wheel. Shit that was childish , sorry. New metaphore please...
Have a pint Chris. Have a think. I am personally a businessman who understands the balance sheet. I retired at 42. Buying, fixing and selling big companies. Sorry about that gents, necessary.
Chris, give us a chance to positive dream a bit because atm we have none with the Club as it is.
And your posts are generally positive.
It has been a good thread with intelligent, articulate debate. Fun and a bit Churchilian at times. But most of us are frustrated. So, join in or destroy.
What is your strategic plan? BTW.
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It's all very well doing the rabble rousing, we are Villa stuff but it's totally meaningless. The truth is there are few people alive who have witnessed us win the league more than once. We're a club that averages around 35k on the PL era, decent but not great. What other than a sense of our one history entitles us to anything? It's like a bloke who used to be a bit of a hit with the ladies who has let himself go but still thinking he can pull anyone.
I honestly think that a section of our support is in denial about our place in the scene of things and the financial reality that the club are now working to.
Our current place in the scheme of things is not set in stone. And it's not set in stone for any other club either. I think success and winning trophies can come with ambition, planning and hard work. The odds seem to be against us at the moment but if the spirit is there you can overcome them. A key ingredient for any kind of success is belief. I don't think I can stop believing that Villa will be the very best again. We're too great a club with too great a place in the game to just give up and throw in the towel.
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It's all very well doing the rabble rousing, we are Villa stuff but it's totally meaningless. The truth is there are few people alive who have witnessed us win the league more than once. We're a club that averages around 35k on the PL era, decent but not great. What other than a sense of our one history entitles us to anything? It's like a bloke who used to be a bit of a hit with the ladies who has let himself go but still thinking he can pull anyone.
I honestly think that a section of our support is in denial about our place in the scene of things and the financial reality that the club are now working to.
Our current place in the scheme of things is not set in stone. And it's not set in stone for any other club either. I think success and winning trophies can come with ambition, planning and hard work. The odds seem to be against us at the moment but if the spirit is there you can overcome them. A key ingredient for any kind of success is belief. I don't think I can stop believing that Villa will be the very best again. We're too great a club with too great a place in the game to just give up and throw in the towel.
IMHO that should be on the front page of the next Annual Report. Brilliant.
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Simba, so fucking what that you stopped working when you were 42. Do you think i'm going to be impressed just because you have a few bob? How has that got anything to do with the financial reality tay the club find themselves at the moment? That's the point of the thread. There's nothing wrong with misty eyed romanticism, that's what the memories section is for, but you've just hijacked it for your own ends and then got all arsey because I've tried to bring you back to reality.
The fact of the matter is that to be self sufficient we have had to trim the wage bill, surely a businessman as brilliant as you can understand that.
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It's like a bloke who used to be a bit of a hit with the ladies who has let himself go but still thinking he can pull anyone.
You have just described me there, its a horrible reality.
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The financial reality does not concern me, I want us to be self-sufficient and run in the correct manner, although, it is too often used as an excuse for poor performances/results on the pitch.
The product on the pitch is my main concern. If we can bring some excitement back to that area, we will have a great chance of success.
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Last season was transitional. This season is more questionable as to the current state of affairs.
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Ok Chris. Take a breath. Apologies if you are insulted. And I certainly have nothing to be proud of. Anymore than you. I was wrong to try and make a point.
I (we, some) on the thread were on a positive, if perhaps idealistic track and I will make no apologies for that. Your negativity/realism is understood and shared by me at times but for once we had a go at looking for a change. For fun. FCS.
It won't happen by being defensive will it?
Ask Alex. In a year.
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Our financial situation should not be directly linked to our performances on the pitch.
So it's OK to play, defensive, ambitionless, negative football because we have to trim the wages.
Sorry i am not buying that.
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I thought the idea was to play more of the kids, how long will Clarke put up with seeing us play crap but never getting a chance? i agree with a previous poster with GH we were in transition now we are in survival mode.
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Our financial situation should not be directly linked to our performances on the pitch.
So it's OK to play, defensive, ambitionless, negative football because we have to trim the wages.
Sorry i am not buying that.
Nor should anybody buy into that belief.
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I think we've missed our opportunity tbh.
In 08/09 and even in 09/10 we missed our opportunity to finish in the top 4 by MON ballsing it up and then Man. City got hot.
I think we'll be condemmed to just about scraping into the top 10 under this manager, hopefully just for this season.
The only real hope I think is we find a manager from somewhere who'll unearth 3-4 gems on low wages from the continent and promotes youth and motivates the under achievers here.
Given Randy's track record of appointing managers, I'm not holding my breath.
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We can play with a more open attacking entertaining line up and get beat by Man U or we can play defensive turgid football and get beat by Man U, i know which one i prefer. No matter how defensive we are we will not contain the top sides our players are just not good enough so why not show somw spirit and get at them.
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We can play with a more open attacking entertaining line up and get beat by Man U or we can play defensive turgid football and get beat by Man U, i know which one i prefer. No matter how defensive we are we will not contain the top sides our players are just not good enough so why not show somw spirit and get at them.
We got at United last year at VP and we had key players injured. I am holding no hope that AM will try to be positive in this match.
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Last season was transitional. This season is more questionable as to the current state of affairs.
Very true. I still think with better management from the top down we have the nucleus of a good side. If we set the tactics up correctly, got the likes of Heskey and Beye off the wage bill and replaced them with the likes of Cabaye we'd be in a good position. It doesn't take megabucks to have a decent side who can play good football, and I think we have several players who can do that already. Unfortunately on the evidence thus far there isn't the leadership from the top required and our manager seems incapable of seeing past his natural negative approach. So unless something dramatic happens it won't change under his reign.
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in the (very) old days the Holte would Chant "attack, attack,------ attack attack attack.
Anything to get this man to see what we need. And still support the team.
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McL is in the job for parsimonious reasons. He is trimming the sails which means nothing much in terms of excitement on the horizon until such time as the economic climate changes in Randy's favour.
Collapse of civilisation as we know it is nothing to do with performance on pitch. I think the correlation is called a 'pathetic fallacy' but we are crap let's face it and this chap is in the job because he is a thick-skinned Scot who will do the chairman's bidding. In the 'good' days Randy left it to MoN and he got carried away with the owner's largesse. The riens are pulled tight now; accept it. We have two three seasons of mediocrity ahead while the youngsters come on. Survival is what is about just like any overstretched household who borrowed too much while the banks gave it away.
McL is a dull sort of bloke and has produced a team after his personality. Dour and miserable.
Randy has to pull the magic rabbit out of the hat or the old sparkle will be a long time coming back again.
Sorry but there is no formula to replace big spending other than slow development of the academy players.
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Simba - believe it or not I thought you were a teenager!
Maybe I always thought of you as a young lion cub.
Funny how you imagine posters.
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Our financial situation should not be directly linked to our performances on the pitch.
So it's OK to play, defensive, ambitionless, negative football because we have to trim the wages.
Sorry i am not buying that.
It's precisely because we're re-adjusting that we sometimes play that way, but it's not every game and it's a distortion to pretend it is. If we take the last three we've had good, bad and average performances and until we get a settled midfield I feel we'll continue to see more of the same.
Of course there is room for improvement and of course we've all got different ideas of what the team should be but it is nowhere near as bad as it is sometimes made out.
As for playing the youngsters, yesterday we started with Delph and Herd as our central midfield pairing it would have been an almighty risk to put a third one in their as well.
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The important word in the title of this thread is "we". My reply to the question Transition or "Villa are where Villa are" would be very different but it says "we."
We means the fans and the club. The club is going through a difficult period. How we as individuals respond to the circumstances affects us as individuals much more than it affects the club, if at all.
I don't care deep down if Villa win or lose. Nor do I care deep down if they play well or play badly. I prefer them to win and I prefer them to play well. I am happy when they win and unhappy when they lose just he same as if I go fishing I am happy if a catch fish and unhappy if I catch nothing but either way I love fishing. I shall not stop going fishing just because there are days when I am water-whacked.
I go to Villa Park because it is something I do. I love football. I love the Villa.
I suspected that Chris was pretty charged up when he correctly commented that Hutton is being made a whipping boy. It is right and it made me think.
I moan and gripe far more about Villa than I used to and far more than I should. When Tommy Docherty had to pass the hat round the fans to buy Bruce and Neil Rioch that is financial barrel scraping.
Where anybody is is entirely relative. If you are standing on the hard shoulder of the M6 the traffic appears to be hurtling past. To somebody flying into Birmingham airport it appears to be crawling at ant pace.
Agree with me or not you have to accept that Villa fans are in a state of transition if what gets posted in these pages is anything to go by. Some of he hostility is scary but some of the compassion like that on both the Collymore threads is heart warming. Good posts and bad all posted by Villa fans.
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Simba - believe it or not I thought you were a teenager!
Maybe I always thought of you as a young lion cub.
Funny how you imagine posters.
I wish! I live in Africa. Simba ( as you know) Swahili =Lion. Made sense as a Villa Fan.
As for my posts being less than mature , well guilty. Apparently. :)
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Can't do much imagining with "Bob" though can we?
Apart from Black Adder.
Back to debate now thanks. )
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It's precisely because we're re-adjusting that we sometimes plausible that way, but it's not every game and it's a distortion to pretend it is. If we take the last three we've had good, bad and average performances and until we get a settled midfield I feel we'll continue to see more of the same.
There is no distortion of the truth from the last two games, we have been awful to watch and have got no rewards for being "safe and ugly".
It is not every game? How can you possibly say that after not viewing the Spurs match. It is no pretense to state that AM is more concerned with the defensive side of the game. It has been like this for the majority of the season, and our performances are very reminiscent of SHA last season.
We all knew Bannan or Jenas needed to start the Swansea game, but AM had the idea Heskey would create chances for Bent, without any evidence from the previous game.
As for playing the youngsters, yesterday we started with Delph and Herd as our central midfield pairing it would have been an almighty risk to put a third one in their as well.
That would be reassuring, if it was not for McLeish's thug-like football. I do not want to see our youngsters nurtured in that environment, they are better than that style.
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I think for it not to be transitional then you'd have to assume the cuts are over. I don't think they are.
Realistically, Beye and Cueller will leave end of this season and they wouln't be replaced unless its youth players. Then there's Ivanhoe and petrov both nearing the end. We gonna find 8m and 50k a week for a readymade petrov replacement? Nah.... then there's the players the club probably would like to get rid off but can't shift like Ireland.... Next season we'll get a better idea of the size of club Lerner wants to run - my guess is it will be similar to what it was before he arrived
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is not every game? How can you possibly say that after not viewing the Spurs match
There is absolutely no logic to that comment. Think about it?
People like you and Compass will not accept that he can do anything right. Even when we win you slag him off but it's not because he used to manage the Noses, no siree honest bob.
We all knew Bannan or Jenas needed to start the Swansea game, but AM had the idea Heskey would create chances for Bent, without any evidence from the previous game.
Even though Jenas wasn't fit enough to start and three kids in central midfield away from home is asking for trouble?
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OK Chris, humour us, what has he done right so far?
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I don't think playing Bannan instead of Heskey would have been asking for trouble at all. That's nonsense Chris i'm sorry.
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is not every game? How can you possibly say that after not viewing the Spurs match
There is absolutely no logic to that comment. Think about it?
People like you and Compass will not accept that he can do anything right. Even when we win you slag him off but it's not because he used to manage the Noses, no siree honest bob.
We all knew Bannan or Jenas needed to start the Swansea game, but AM had the idea Heskey would create chances for Bent, without any evidence from the previous game.
Even though Jenas wasn't fit enough to start and three kids in central midfield away from home is asking for trouble?
Can you manage a single response to people which doesn't involve an accusation of it all being about AM being a former Blues manager, Chris?
I'm genuinely interested, because you make some good points, but then you fall back on some really lazy arguments. It's like a permanently valid get out of jail free card.
Anyone could make a good case for why they're unhappy with McLeish, but there's always the killer "just because he used to manage them" argument there to nuke it.
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There is absolutely no logic to that comment. Think about it?
There is logic to my comment if you actually select the whole argument.
It's precisely because we're re-adjusting that we sometimes play that way, but it's not every game and it's a distortion to pretend it is.
We are re-adjusting to AM's normal style, you know, the style and formation he had at SHA when they were relegated.
There is no pretense or illusion, we are poor with the ball and look to bypass the midfield by going long, this is our main source of attack under AM. Tottenham and Swansea were poor games to watch as a Villa supporter and the results gave me no comfort.
People like you and Compass will not accept that he can do anything right. Even when we win you slag him off but it's not because he used to manage the Noses, no siree honest bob.
You know that is complete rubbish as you include another poster to justify it. If we win I am naturally delighted, I would not knock AM for winning football matches. But we have drawn too many games and performances have been negative.
I could careless about his connection with that club, I can understand why other supporters may have a problem with it, but to me it makes little difference who is last club were.
Furthermore, I recently admitted if we had appointed him after he finished ninth with SHA I could understand the appointment. But I doubt he would come here if they were still a PL club.
Even though Jenas wasn't fit enough to start and three kids in central midfield away from home is asking for trouble?
I apologies about Jenas. But it is hard to define Delph/Herd/Bannan as kids, if he did select and start them I would have backed his decision, as we could call it progressive and adventurous.
Heskey playing there was inexcusable, no reason or logic considering Monday night's performance.
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The thing i don't understand is if we're going with the kids where are they? Herd...bannon.... erm.... AM's transfer business and him farming them out doesn't exactly scream youth either. People could probably get behind a team fielding 4 or 5 youth players every game if that looked like a plan but as usual with this club its half-assed. Either AM doesn't fancy them as much as Faulkner and co.,or they're not ready yet.