Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: batucada on November 23, 2011, 06:27:29 PM
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1. Football is a simple game. The team that gets the ball the most times in their opponent's goal wins the game.
2. If your side have the ball it's almost impossible for the other team to score. Therefore,to keep hoofing the ball out of defence and giving it back to the other side is not very smart as the team that's got the ball are the team who can score.
3. Most goals are scored by a player with the ball in the penalty box. Therefore if you dont get players into the box with the ball it's very difficult to score a goal.
We could also go on to talk about motivation and self belief but perhaps we should just start with the above for the time being.
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yawn
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I do hope Mr Mcleish reads this advice. It is obvious he has little experience of what happens in a football game.
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1978–1994 Aberdeen 493 (25)
1994–1995 Motherwell 3 (0)
Total 496 (25)
National team
Scotland U-21 6 (0)
1980–1993 Scotland[1] 77 (0)
Teams managed
1994–1998 Motherwell
1998–2001 Hibernian
2001–2006 Rangers
2007 Scotland
2007–2011 Birmingham City
2011– Aston Villa
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Open question to Batucada; do you seriously think we're currently in a position to go to Spurs and dominate possession, whoever the manager?
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Oh God, will it ever end?
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Open question to Chris Smith:
Do you not think your views would be taken more seriously if you'd watched the match?
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I do hope Mr Mcleish reads this advice. It is obvious he has little experience of what happens in a football game.
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1978–1994 Aberdeen 493 (25)
1994–1995 Motherwell 3 (0)
Total 496 (25)
National team
Scotland U-21 6 (0)
1980–1993 Scotland[1] 77 (0)
Teams managed
1994–1998 Motherwell
1998–2001 Hibernian
2001–2006 Rangers
2007 Scotland
2007–2011 Birmingham City
2011– Aston Villa
For all of his experience i think AM hasn't got a basic grasp of tactics.
Heskey is not a midfielder
Hutton is not a midfielder
Bannan is not a right winger
Nzogbia is better on the left
Very basic but to AM it may as well be Nuclear physics
You forgot to add that Rangers worst ever run of league games without a win was under the fuckwit and Rangers finished 3rd
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He was also in charge of a team that bucked a 100 year trend of FA by winning a trophy.
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I do hope Mr Mcleish reads this advice. It is obvious he has little experience of what happens in a football game.
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1978–1994 Aberdeen 493 (25)
1994–1995 Motherwell 3 (0)
Total 496 (25)
National team
Scotland U-21 6 (0)
1980–1993 Scotland[1] 77 (0)
Teams managed
1994–1998 Motherwell
1998–2001 Hibernian
2001–2006 Rangers
2007 Scotland
2007–2011 Birmingham City
2011– Aston Villa
well a career in scotland and the blose. you could say he's a complete beginner
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I do hope Mr Mcleish reads this advice. It is obvious he has little experience of what happens in a football game.
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1978–1994 Aberdeen 493 (25)
1994–1995 Motherwell 3 (0)
Total 496 (25)
National team
Scotland U-21 6 (0)
1980–1993 Scotland[1] 77 (0)
Teams managed
1994–1998 Motherwell
1998–2001 Hibernian
2001–2006 Rangers
2007 Scotland
2007–2011 Birmingham City
2011– Aston Villa
well a career in scotland and the blose. you could say he's a complete beginner
Argue all you like about Mcleish not being a good enough manager for the Villa job, but re-read the initial statement made by Batucada.
The inference is that Mcleish knows no more about the basics of football than someone who has never taken even a cursory interest in the game. In my book, that is not constructive criticism or debate but simply pointless and semi abusive.
With regards to most of someones experience being in Scotland making them a beginner, its seemed to be a fairly sound sound grounding for Ferguson and a few others.
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yeah i wasan't being serious to be honest
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I do hope Mr Mcleish reads this advice. It is obvious he has little experience of what happens in a football game.
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1978–1994 Aberdeen 493 (25)
1994–1995 Motherwell 3 (0)
Total 496 (25)
National team
Scotland U-21 6 (0)
1980–1993 Scotland[1] 77 (0)
Teams managed
1994–1998 Motherwell
1998–2001 Hibernian
2001–2006 Rangers
2007 Scotland
2007–2011 Birmingham City
2011– Aston Villa
My five year old daughter - no football experience other than kicking a Toy Story ball around the garden. Even she wouldn't have picked Hutton at right midfield.
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Open question to Batucada; do you seriously think we're currently in a position to go to Spurs and dominate possession, whoever the manager?
Yes, that's what people have been doing - screaming blue murder about our failure to dominate possession.
Honest, Chris, I am a great admirer of your work, but you're having an absolute nightmare on this one.
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Open question to Batucada; do you seriously think we're currently in a position to go to Spurs and dominate possession, whoever the manager?
Chris, we are an established premiership side, clearly we should be able to do it. Swansea(championship last season) went to Anfield and enjoyed 55% possession.
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Open question to Batucada; do you seriously think we're currently in a position to go to Spurs and dominate possession, whoever the manager?
Do you think its ok to go to spurs and just sit back all game? If Villa took your attitude we wouldn't even be in the premier league and its sad to see that in recent years we have gone to old trafford, anfield, stamford bridge etc. and showed no fear and shocked a lot of people yet we go to spurs on monday have hutton on the wing heskey on the other wing and show no intention of ever going forward?
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Open advice, stop chewing gum you look like a bull dog chewing a wasp
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Serious piece of open advice to Alex McLeish.
Stop being scared of losing.
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Serious piece of open advice to Alex McLeish.
Stop being scared of losing.
Exactly and improvement will stem from that. I want to be excited watching Villa and players like Gardner coming in would do that.
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Open question to Batucada; do you seriously think we're currently in a position to go to Spurs and dominate possession, whoever the manager?
Yes, that's what people have been doing - screaming blue murder about our failure to dominate possession.
Honest, Chris, I am a great admirer of your work, but you're having an absolute nightmare on this one.
Read the opening post again, that's exactly what he's saying.
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Open question to Batucada; do you seriously think we're currently in a position to go to Spurs and dominate possession, whoever the manager?
Do you think its ok to go to spurs and just sit back all game? If Villa took your attitude we wouldn't even be in the premier league and its sad to see that in recent years we have gone to old trafford, anfield, stamford bridge etc. and showed no fear and shocked a lot of people yet we go to spurs on monday have hutton on the wing heskey on the other wing and show no intention of ever going forward?
Yes, shame we don't have such good players as we did then.
We lost, the manager got it wrong. It happens, always has done. Only now we need half a dozen threads portraying it as the worst thing ever and a betrayal of our most sacred beliefs.
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Open question to Batucada; do you seriously think we're currently in a position to go to Spurs and dominate possession, whoever the manager?
Yes, that's what people have been doing - screaming blue murder about our failure to dominate possession.
Honest, Chris, I am a great admirer of your work, but you're having an absolute nightmare on this one.
Read the opening post again, that's exactly what he's saying.
the ship's not sinking yet Chris . its a bit early to start doing your last man off the boat skit. we're just pointing out the bloody great iceberg half a mile away.
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Greg, if you found an ice cube in your Sunny Delight you'd call it an ice berg. Doom and gloom is your default setting.
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Chris, are you ever going to stop lecturing people about how they should think and feel after a game you haven't even seen?
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the guy just made a few points about our performance and where we're currently going wrong. I don't think its a hysterical panic reaction to ask we don't hoof it out of defence and give it to the opposition. Seems a reasonable request, as are his other points. Nowhere do i see "we're doomed!!!" or anything similar. Only one over-reacting on this thread is you
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Chris, are you ever going to stop lecturing people about how they should think and feel after a game you haven't even seen?
I can't stop something that I haven't even started. However, the over reaction to a single result/performance is a time honoured tradition on the Internet and that's what I'm taking issue with.
The manager tries something different and it didn't work. If he'd played a more attacking side and we'd lost the same people would be having a go for that. It's just the way things work.
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Chris, are you ever going to stop lecturing people about how they should think and feel after a game you haven't even seen?
I can't stop something that I haven't even started. However, the over reaction to a single result/performance is a time honoured tradition on the Internet and that's what I'm taking issue with.
The manager tries something different and it didn't work. If he'd played a more attacking side and we'd lost the same people would be having a go for that. It's just the way things work.
Doing your Mother Superior act when you haven't even seen the game to see what people are so upset about is showing a Coopers Injury level of foolishness.
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I doubt if there was this much whining after when Chelsea put 7 past us. Come to think of it, I was probably the most controversial. I said 'sack O'Neill' and got slaughtered for it.
By the way, one bright suggestion on the Villa Facebook site this morning asked why we don't have Kevin MacDonald on the bench.
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Chris, are you ever going to stop lecturing people about how they should think and feel after a game you haven't even seen?
I can't stop something that I haven't even started. However, the over reaction to a single result/performance is a time honoured tradition on the Internet and that's what I'm taking issue with.
The manager tries something different and it didn't work. If he'd played a more attacking side and we'd lost the same people would be having a go for that. It's just the way things work.
Having a different opinion is one thing, but it's coming across as you lecturing people on how they should feel and think. Which is made worse by the fact you haven't even seen the game.
And it might be worth remembering that there wasn't this reaction to the 4-1 defeat at City. The reason, we gave it a legitimate shot and lost to a better side. Shit happens. You don't seem to grasp that it's not the defeat that's the issue with Monday, it's the manner of it.
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Chris, are you ever going to stop lecturing people about how they should think and feel after a game you haven't even seen?
I can't stop something that I haven't even started. However, the over reaction to a single result/performance is a time honoured tradition on the Internet and that's what I'm taking issue with.
The manager tries something different and it didn't work. If he'd played a more attacking side and we'd lost the same people would be having a go for that. It's just the way things work.
Doing your Mother Superior act when you haven't even seen the game to see what people are so upset about is showing a Coopers Injury level of foolishness.
I was going to ask Chris for his opinion on the game and how we lined up, approached the game etc, but if he didn't see it, then there is no point.
If you were one of the midfielders on the bench and saw Alan Hutton line-up ahead of you, you must be a little confused.
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I doubt if there was this much whining after when Chelsea put 7 past us. Come to think of it, I was probably the most controversial. I said 'sack O'Neill' and got slaughtered for it.
By the way, one bright suggestion on the Villa Facebook site this morning asked why we don't have Kevin MacDonald on the bench.
Getting beat is part of life. I have to say that when Man City swatted us aside, I barely raised an eyebrow. We gave it a go, they were better than us, shit happens. To listen to Chris though, there were only two possible outcomes at Spurs. Go there and attempt to play football and get thrashed, or play Hutton in midfield and lose less badly. Apparently going there and playing well and winning is completely beyond the realms of possibility under this team and manager. Looks like Chris has got the perfect manager, no wonder he's so happy.
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Sunday we'll know a lot more about the Ginger one. Will he take same approach or put a team out to have a go at getting the 3 points?
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The manager tries something different and it didn't work. If he'd played a more attacking side and we'd lost the same people would be having a go for that. It's just the way things work.
He hasn't tried something different, he has gone further back into his normal style of managing in England. We haven't exactly been setting the Prem alight with attacking performances all year, and if you had read the Post match thread, you would have seen stats showing second worse completed passes and second worst shots on target all season. Don't forget this is a start to the season in which we have only played one of the "big" teams for those stats.
But the main thing was there was no fight or bottle from the team, but why should they when instead of the manager geeing up the team for a fight, he shows he doesn't believe in them by the team selection.
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Open question to Batucada; do you seriously think we're currently in a position to go to Spurs and dominate possession, whoever the manager?
Yes, that's what people have been doing - screaming blue murder about our failure to dominate possession.
Honest, Chris, I am a great admirer of your work, but you're having an absolute nightmare on this one.
Read the opening post again, that's exactly what he's saying.
But it isn't. At least not viewed in the context of how we played on Monday, which I appreciate, you didn't see.
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I think things could be worse than we thought. When the smythster is in full-on save manager mode things are usually pretty bleak. Gone by January.
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Greg, if you found an ice cube in your Sunny Delight you'd call it an ice berg. Doom and gloom is your default setting.
;D
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I doubt if there was this much whining after when Chelsea put 7 past us. Come to think of it, I was probably the most controversial. I said 'sack O'Neill' and got slaughtered for it.
Well, he's gone. Pleased?
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I doubt if there was this much whining after when Chelsea put 7 past us. Come to think of it, I was probably the most controversial. I said 'sack O'Neill' and got slaughtered for it.
Well, he's gone. Pleased?
Of his own accord, let it go, you'll feel better for it.
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I doubt if there was this much whining after when Chelsea put 7 past us. Come to
think of it, I was probably the most controversial. I said 'sack O'Neill' and got slaughtered for it.
Well, he's gone. Pleased?
Of his own accord, let it go, you'll feel better for it.
1. Delighted.
2. He was effectively sacked.
Thanks for the counselling.
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I doubt if there was this much whining after when Chelsea put 7 past us. Come to think of it, I was probably the most controversial. I said 'sack O'Neill' and got slaughtered for it.
By the way, one bright suggestion on the Villa Facebook site this morning asked why we don't have Kevin MacDonald on the bench.
Getting beat is part of life. I have to say that when Man City swatted us aside, I barely raised an eyebrow. We gave it a go, they were better than us, shit happens. To listen to Chris though, there were only two possible outcomes at Spurs. Go there
and attempt to play football and get thrashed, or play Hutton in midfield and lose less badly. Apparently going there and playing well and winning is completely beyond the realms of possibility under this team and manager. Looks like Chris has got the perfect manager, no wonder he's so happy.
Don't you think there are a handful who are delighted at Monday's result?
How many more 'worst game I've ever seen' are we going to have?
Players who didn't make the first eleven are suddenly world beaters. Delph has had plenty of opportunity and hasn't really clicked yet. N'Zogbia is a big disappointment but I think it is a case of play him for a good solid run of games and hope he comes good. He had shown signs of improvement but we are entitled to expect better for the transfer fee.
Albrighton looked like he was going to go straight to the top but has had a slight setback. I have every confidence in him.
We've just got to be patient and hope that those who do get picked put in more effort.
There is a lot of reliance on Jenas continuing as he did against Norwich. The last thing we needed was an enforced absence against Spurs.
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The manager tries something different and it didn't work. If he'd played a more attacking side and we'd lost the same people would be having a go for that. It's just the way things work.
He hasn't tried something different, he has gone further back into his normal style of managing in England. We haven't exactly been setting the Prem alight with attacking performances all year, and if you had read the Post match thread, you would have seen stats showing second worse completed passes and second worst shots on target all season. Don't forget this is a start to the season in which we have only played one of the "big" teams for those stats.
But the main thing was there was no fight or bottle from the team, but why should they when instead of the manager geeing up the team for a fight, he shows he doesn't believe in them by the team selection.
If you're just going to ignore logic and employ double think then you'll feel like you're right in every argument. He picked a team he hadn't picked before employing a system that we haven't used before but it wasn't trying something different.
This place goes collectively bonkers from time to time.
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I think things could be worse than we thought. When the smythster is in full-on save manager mode things are usually pretty bleak. Gone by January.
As usual Greg the argument goes 100 feet over your head.
It's not save the manager it's just making the obvious case that 12 games and half a transfer window is not long enough to make an informed decision. Now I know you don't worry about the informed part but I expect more from the intelligent posters.
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Just out of interest, and apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but what would people's opinions have been had we played the same side, but got a 0-0 draw?
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Advice to AM.
Set the side up to win, put players in their positions, get the strikers into the game, middies to have a creative brief to link with strikers, stop playing for a draw and....
Stop blaming the players.
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Just out of interest, and apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but what would people's opinions have been had we played the same side, but got a 0-0 draw?
John, understand the reason for the hyperthetical question but the side, even on paper was peculiar and given AM's obvious plan to nullify Bale, it therefore was a formation built on fear. I mean why not put a side out that forced 'Arry to negate the threat we can pose with Bent and Gabby if they are serviced? Compete FGS.
Agreed a draw would've been fine before the game unfortunately simply because we are playing poorly. However, the result was almost secondary to the negative game plan and obvious player frustration. It gave us no chance of a win did it?
To answer your question: If we'd drawn 0-0 and had a good go at 'em I would be happy. If we got the 0-0 with the side he put out I would have said we could've beaten them with more positive tactics and STILL said it was bloody strange, negative formation/player positioning.
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Just out of interest, and apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but what would people's opinions have been had we played the same side, but got a 0-0 draw?
The point is, that was never going to happen, and it didn't. Might as well ask if we'd be happy if Heskey scored a hat trick.
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edit
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My advice would be. Let's practice set peices. Let's play players in their proper positions.
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I think things could be worse than we thought. When the smythster is in full-on save manager mode things are usually pretty bleak. Gone by January.
As usual Greg the argument goes 100 feet over your head.
It's not save the manager it's just making the obvious case that 12 games and half a transfer window is not long enough to make an informed decision. Now I know you don't worry about the informed part but I expect more from the intelligent posters.
Not sure what you mean there Chris. Are you saying you're the James Collins of this forum? Punting opinions out that no-one else can get their head on? The point everyone else is making is after 12 games and half a transfer window they should be able to pass to each other, not boot the ball straight to the opposition and have the occasional shot on target even against the mighty Spurs who you seem to have elevated to Barcelona levels of greatness overnight.. That's not dominating posession, that just what most teams can manage.
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Just out of interest, and apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but what would people's opinions have been had we played the same side, but got a 0-0 draw?
I think the side was fundamentally flawed; not so much by playing Hutton as a RMF, 'cos actually he does his best work going forwards IMO. It was more the role that Heskey was expected to play and - more importantly - the psychological message the starting eleven must have sent to both Villa and the oppo. McGinge indicated - in neon lights - that he was shooting for a 0-0 and thinking defensively.
Teams that do well at WHL tend to be those that have a go and attack Spurs. If we'd kept the same side as against Norwich and had a go, the fallout from the game - whatever the result - would be more muted.
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My advice would be. Let's practice set peices. Let's play players in their proper positions.
Now you're just being silly
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The point everyone else is making is after 12 games and half a transfer window they should be able to pass to each other, not boot the ball straight to the opposition and have the occasional shot on target even against the mighty Spurs who you seem to have elevated to Barcelona levels of greatness overnight.. That's not dominating posession, that just what most teams can manage.
I think that's a reasonable expectation - in fact, my base expectation from McMinge was that we'd sort out the defensive chaos of last season; we don't appear to have done that, which probably means that the defensive personnel are wrong 'cos they clearly ain't learning the lessons.
Since the two fullbacks and the keeper are different from last season, maybe it's the CB's ...
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Just out of interest, and apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but what would people's opinions have been had we played the same side, but got a 0-0 draw?
I'd have been repenting to God / Muhammed / Buddha / Luke Skywalker as the world was clearly about to end.
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Just out of interest, and apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but what would people's opinions have been had we played the same side, but got a 0-0 draw?
If you're going to play dull football at least be good at it, I don't think we are.
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McLeish's one half decent Premier League season was based on Blues winning quite a few matches 1-0 playing dull football. As we're clearly incapable of the clean sheet part of that style of playing, I'd suggest that he doesn't repeat Monday's "experiment". The twat.
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McLeish's one half decent Premier League season was based on Blues winning quite a few matches 1-0 playing dull football. As we're clearly incapable of the clean sheet part of that style of playing, I'd suggest that he doesn't repeat Monday's "experiment". The twat.
Joe Hart was instrumental in that successful league season. And I could understand RL poaching AM while his stock was high, but to take him after relegating our most bitter rivals is absurd.
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The point everyone else is making is after 12 games and half a transfer window they should be able to pass to each other, not boot the ball straight to the opposition and have the occasional shot on target even against the mighty Spurs who you seem to have elevated to Barcelona levels of greatness overnight.. That's not dominating posession, that just what most teams can manage.
I think that's a reasonable expectation - in fact, my base expectation from McMinge was that we'd sort out the defensive chaos of last season; we don't appear to have done that, which probably means that the defensive personnel are wrong 'cos they clearly ain't learning the lessons.
Since the two fullbacks and the keeper are different from last season, maybe it's the CB's ...
BINGO
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The point everyone else is making is after 12 games and half a transfer window they should be able to pass to each other, not boot the ball straight to the opposition and have the occasional shot on target even against the mighty Spurs who you seem to have elevated to Barcelona levels of greatness overnight.. That's not dominating posession, that just what most teams can manage.
I think that's a reasonable expectation - in fact, my base expectation from McMinge was that we'd sort out the defensive chaos of last season; we don't appear to have done that, which probably means that the defensive personnel are wrong 'cos they clearly ain't learning the lessons.
Since the two fullbacks and the keeper are different from last season, maybe it's the CB's ...
What Greg is doing is what he always does. He only returns to blight us after a bad performance then tries to convince everyone that's what we're always like. The two previous games had been very positive performances but that is just brushed under the carpet as it doesn't suit his stance.
The truth is we're up and down, some good, some bad and some ugly. After the upheaval of the previous 18 months it's hardly a surprise. It's going to take a lot of hard work from manager, coaches and players to sort it out and anyone expecting it to all be done in 12 games is living in a fantasy world.
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Watched the game yet Chris? Thought not.
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Risso, you're starting to sound like her that does that "Am I bovvered" rubbish!
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The point everyone else is making is after 12 games and half a transfer window they should be able to pass to each other, not boot the ball straight to the opposition and have the occasional shot on target even against the mighty Spurs who you seem to have elevated to Barcelona levels of greatness overnight.. That's not dominating posession, that just what most teams can manage.
I think that's a reasonable expectation - in fact, my base expectation from McMinge was that we'd sort out the defensive chaos of last season; we don't appear to have done that, which probably means that the defensive personnel are wrong 'cos they clearly ain't learning the lessons.
Since the two fullbacks and the keeper are different from last season, maybe it's the CB's ...
What Greg is doing is what he always does. He only returns to blight us after a bad performance
Correct. Either that or he's wobbling on about MON like a love sick teenager.
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Risso, you're starting to sound like her that does that "Am I bovvered" rubbish!
I just think it's a bit rich to go an at Greg for something "he always does" when Chris is doing "what he always does", ie blindly support the manager no matter how miserable the performance. Only in this instance, at least Greg saw the game whilst Chris was off showing people around the Mailbox!
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Risso, you're starting to sound like her that does that "Am I bovvered" rubbish!
It is a fair point though. It's all very well to say we were bad on Monday but we were especially bad. I was at my local running track last night and people were shouting "oi! Villa were shit on Monday!" at me. I'm glad to say that doesn't normally happen.
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Risso, you're starting to sound like her that does that "Am I bovvered" rubbish!
I just think it's a bit rich to go an at Greg for something "he always does" when Chris is doing "what he always does", ie blindly support the manager no matter how miserable the performance. Only in this instance, at least Greg saw the game whilst Chris was off showing people around the Mailbox!
Without realising it you're making my point for me. It's irrelevant who saw the game or not as it's just one game, it's not representative. Yet you, Greg and others are trying to turn it into something far more significant. If we have a good win on Sunday will you all suddenly be convinced that everything is rosy? Of course not, because it would be wrong to see it as any more than just one game.
It was Brindley Place by the way. ;-)
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As we've seen all too frequesntly, there have been several turning points in the past, which often follow a moment of utter capitulation from the manager, eg Moscow for O'Neill, Man City for Houllier, which lead to a run of defeats and more importantly, even more negativity from the fans.
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Chris, I think you're right to a large extent. One game doesn't make or break a season, and shouldn't dictate how things have gone or will go. My issue with Monday was the manner of the approach to the game, the tactical set up, the overall mindset of the manager towards playing that level of competition. I don't think we should be naive here. At this moment we're not as good as Spurs. But going there with an ultra defensive, stifling formation as opposed to using the talented players we have on our books to go at them is a direction I don't want to see us go. If we go down fighting, then so be it. If we go down trying to score goals, then so be it. If we go down because that's all we were trying to avoid and ultimately failed is entirely different.
I think most people whether privately or publicly accept this is a transition phase. That like it or not, AM isn't going anywhere and as such he needs time to create his own squad and team. What many will want is that given that is the case, we'd like to see the mindset of the manager and club is to be expressive and creative as part of that process. I'd rather we we played the likes of N'Zogbia, Albrighton, Bannan, Ireland etc, than Hutton and Heskey in midfield. That's what gets on people's nerves because it is obvious what we are trying to do for 90 minutes.
One game doesn't tell you everything. I agree entirely with you there. But for me at least, it caused me concern that this is a strategy AM might employ to ensure survival. I think that is a very dangerous game to play.
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Chris, I think you're right to a large extent. One game doesn't make or break a season, and shouldn't dictate how things have gone or will go. My issue with Monday was the manner of the approach to the game, the tactical set up, the overall mindset of the manager towards playing that level of competition. I don't think we should be naive here. At this moment we're not as good as Spurs. But going there with an ultra defensive, stifling formation as opposed to using the talented players we have on our books to go at them is a direction I don't want to see us go. If we go down fighting, then so be it. If we go down trying to score goals, then so be it. If we go down because that's all we were trying to avoid and ultimately failed is entirely different.
I think most people whether privately or publicly accept this is a transition phase. That like it or not, AM isn't going anywhere and as such he needs time to create his own squad and team. What many will want is that given that is the case, we'd like to see the mindset of the manager and club is to be expressive and creative as part of that process. I'd rather we we played the likes of N'Zogbia, Albrighton, Bannan, Ireland etc, than Hutton and Heskey in midfield. That's what gets on people's nerves because it is obvious what we are trying to do for 90 minutes.
One game doesn't tell you everything. I agree entirely with you there. But for me at least, it caused me concern that this is a strategy AM might employ to ensure survival. I think that is a very dangerous game to play.
I think that more or less perfectly expresses my view on the situation, and what the game on Monday indicated.
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Chris, I think you're right to a large extent. One game doesn't make or break a season, and shouldn't dictate how things have gone or will go. My issue with Monday was the manner of the approach to the game, the tactical set up, the overall mindset of the manager towards playing that level of competition. I don't think we should be naive here. At this moment we're not as good as Spurs. But going there with an ultra defensive, stifling formation as opposed to using the talented players we have on our books to go at them is a direction I don't want to see us go. If we go down fighting, then so be it. If we go down trying to score goals, then so be it. If we go down because that's all we were trying to avoid and ultimately failed is entirely different.
I think most people whether privately or publicly accept this is a transition phase. That like it or not, AM isn't going anywhere and as such he needs time to create his own squad and team. What many will want is that given that is the case, we'd like to see the mindset of the manager and club is to be expressive and creative as part of that process. I'd rather we we played the likes of N'Zogbia, Albrighton, Bannan, Ireland etc, than Hutton and Heskey in midfield. That's what gets on people's nerves because it is obvious what we are trying to do for 90 minutes.
One game doesn't tell you everything. I agree entirely with you there. But for me at least, it caused me concern that this is a strategy AM might employ to ensure survival. I think that is a very dangerous game to play.
Spot on tv. I'm usually supportive of Chris as i tend to agree with the bigger picture view he takes. Howver in this instance there were some alarming and detailed errors made on Monday which we hadn't seen from Mcleish before which started ringing alarm bells for me. Its not time to say the sky is falling in but a small crack appeared on Monday, lets hope the next few weeks don't see that getting any bigger.
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We made absolutely no attempt to get back into the game in the second half. It was like a practice game in with Spurs taking pity on us as our sole objective was to keep it at 2-0. Even the disasters at Anfield and Man City last season had injuries and a decision to play a weakened team as a backdrop.
This was a complete capitulation seen by the football world. Completely humiliating in my opinion. I hope it is a watershed for McLeish and he is aware of the depth of feeling amongest supporters.
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I think most people whether privately or publicly accept this is a transition phase. That like it or not, AM isn't going anywhere and as such he needs time to create his own squad and team. What many will want is that given that is the case, we'd like to see the mindset of the manager and club is to be expressive and creative as part of that process.
History tells us that this defensive style is AM's preferred. I do not see the style improving or progressing under his leadership, and our recent performance supports that claim.
There was tangible evidence that it was a transitional period under GH, due to his winter purchases. But AM backs a lot of our current squad and they sadly do not reciprocate his belief in them.
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Mcleish has inherited a few donkeys, players not playing to their potential, some average overpaid benchwarmers and a bunch of talented kids. The sooner the likes of Heskey, Collins, Beye, Warnock,Cuellar, Dunne, Petrov are gone the better. Not one of these players is above average, not one is a game changer, 7 very ordinary players. We need to throw some of these talented kids in their and stop wrapping them up in cotton wool and putting them out on loan. All this bollocks that their not ready for the premiership. Apart from the top 5 clubs in the premiership, the premiership is not that much better than the championship. If these kids can play in the championship then they can play in the premiership. Sick and tired that Villa are associated with players your granny would invite for tea. We need a bit of attitude, mongrel whatever you want to call it down Villa Park, feels like the sleeping giant is going back to sleep.
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We made absolutely no attempt to get back into the game in the second half. It was like a practice game in with Spurs taking pity on us as our sole objective was to keep it at 2-0. Even the disasters at Anfield and Man City last season had injuries and a decision to play a weakened team as a backdrop.
Spurs in the second half were a bit like the way i play FIFA12 when I realise I'm up against someone who really isn't very good and has no chance of beating me. I start over-elaborating and attempting to walk every goal in, or lob them all.
This was a complete capitulation seen by the football world. Completely humiliating in my opinion. I hope it is a watershed for McLeish and he is aware of the depth of feeling amongest supporters.
Embarassing is the word I'd use.
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The other worrying indication is that fact that Mcleish defended his tactics after the game.
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The other worrying indication is that fact that Mcleish defended his tactics after the game.
Well he's going to in public. How many managers after a defeat come out and say they got it wrong? I just hope in private he learns from it and sorts it out.
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The thought of mcleish building his own team scares the shit out of me, also if we have to replace 7 players who the hell are we going to replace them with? I can't see us replacing them with quality.!
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Which quality players would come to Villa now anyway?
With O'Neill at the club he at least had a good reputation (at the time). That and the euphoria of the new owners was a draw for talented players.
Meanwhile, McLeish has a reputation for getting Birmingham relegated.
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I'm all in favour of seeing the bigger picture and long term strategies, I'm all for it. My problem is that I really am not convinced the club has one of any great coherence. The appointment of GH indicated one style of football and long-term planning, but the club was forced to hire someone else due to his illness and appointed McLeish, in many ways the polar opposite of GH. The fact that they also considered managers such as Martinez and McLaren, again very very different to McLeish, didn't seem to indicate any really thought through plan of how to move forward.
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Flapping like a fish on a rod. Ask Mr Walnuts.
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Risso, you're starting to sound like her that does that "Am I bovvered" rubbish!
I just think it's a bit rich to go an at Greg for something "he always does" when Chris is doing "what he always does", ie blindly support the manager no matter how miserable the performance. Only in this instance, at least Greg saw the game whilst Chris was off showing people around the Mailbox!
Without realising it you're making my point for me. It's irrelevant who saw the game or not as it's just one game, it's not representative. Yet you, Greg and others are trying to turn it into something far more significant. If we have a good win on Sunday will you all suddenly be convinced that everything is rosy? Of course not, because it would be wrong to see it as any more than just one game.
It was Brindley Place by the way. ;-)
Look you selfish sod, while you were out having a rare old time in Brum, swanning about the trendy bars and eateries of Broad Street and The Mailbox, with your friends without a care in the world; some of us were suffering on Monday evening! While you might have had a bit of a thick head in the morning which could be seen off with a couple of paracetamol and some coffee, the rest of us had to try and banish the memory of Alan Hutton cavorting up and down the wing with all the grace and skill of Anne Widdecombe on Strictly Come Dancing. A good bloody moan is the least we deserve after that!
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Open advice to AM:
Can you please give Compass his dinner money back.
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Open advice to AM:
Can you please give Compass his dinner money back.
Lunch money Shirley?
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Don't call me Shirley..
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Open advice to AM:
Can you please give Compass his dinner money back.
Chortle.
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A simple observation...
There are two goal things on a pitch, one at either end. The objective as I think it is, is to put the round white / orange thing into the goal that there goalkeeper is standing in front of more times than they put it into the goal that our goalkeeper is standing in front of.
In order to do that, I'm sure I have read somewhere that we need to be able to put the ball into a position relatively close to the oppositions goal that one of our players can kick / bundle / shin the ball into the goal.
In order to do that I'm sure we need to have some kind of outlet from defence other than simply hoofing the ball back to thier defence???
Just my observation