Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: markus209 on October 17, 2011, 12:34:39 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15336398.stm
Several foreign-owned Premier League clubs want to scrap relegation, according to League Managers Association chief Richard Bevan.
If more clubs are sold to foreigner investors, they may have enough votes to force through the change.
But Bevan hopes that a government-led inquiry can help prevent the proposal.
"We're very keen that the report is successful in helping the Football Association introduce a licensing programme for clubs," he said.
"Because there are a number of overseas-owned clubs already talking about bringing about the avoidance of promotion and relegation in the Premier League.
"If we have four or five more new owners, that could happen."
More to follow.
Doubt it would ever happen but I think this would make me give up on football.
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If they did, I'd like Villa to give up our PL place and go back into the Championship.
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Bloody ridiculous.
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file it in the stupid box next to the 39th game
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Don't be so sure that it is impossible. These new foreign owners have no place for tradition and only want to protect their investment. A permanent Premier League position which offers lucrative TV income for example safeguards them.
Stinks but so does a lot of current football.
I dunno about marching on Wall Street- there are times I want to march on the FA headquarters and demand a wage cap or something to bring these overpaid, disloyal, moneygrabbing youngsters more in touch with the supporters who pay them. For example.
BTW credit to Mr. Milner for the non-celebration. Respect.
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Lunacy - I think it's time to take our ball home.
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Look on the bright side. At least it won't matter having McLeish in charge.
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A Salary Cap and a Draft system will be next
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Redsox,
Don't laugh. We have taken so much from the US sports scene. Imagine a Draft system. Bloody hell. I will definitely hang up my scarf. Oh God what is money and protectionism of the elite doing to this sport? Mr. McGregor must be spinning.
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Can't see this happening but if it did everyone from every team should boycott, they would soon scrap it then when the grounds were empty.
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That would be the worst thing they could do, and it would definitely kill the game.
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I though promotion-relegation was a corner stone of the whole PL, to ensure it has the best teams.
I'd file this under scaremongering.
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I though promotion-relegation was a corner stone of the whole PL, to ensure it has the best teams.
How do you know the teams getting promoted are better than those getting relegated?
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Too poor for the CL and no chance of relegation, what's the point.
If it becomes serious, then the Football League will kick up a hell of a fuss, but that didn't stop the Premier breakaway.
Personally can't see this happening - but you never know
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A Salary Cap and a Draft system will be next
I actually think the salary cap would be a good idea. Would certainly make the league more competitive, and could be done on a league by league basis, with teams having their cap increased or reduced as regards to promotion and relegation.
Obviously there are far too many with vested interests for this to happen.
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Playing devil's advocate, and incidentally I don't agree with scrapping relegation myself, the reason behind such a decision would not be particularly to favour the top 5/6. They're never going to get relegated anyway and which of the revolving door of bottom 3 cannon fodder they thrash twice a season makes no difference to them. The biggest gainers would be, dare I say it, teams like Villa who wouldn't have the concern of a nightmare season or two completely messing up our finances for years on end. In fact I suppose the real gainers would be teams like Leeds and Sheff Wed who this has already happened to, presuming they were invited to join in of course. The argument runs that if your share of the pot is guaranteed then you can take a longer term view of things and really look to build for the future without the catastrophic effects of the relegation trap door looming. Rugby League have already done this and it was broadly a popular move. Whether it's worked in terms of improving those at the bottom of the new closed shop is open to debate.
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It would not be a bad idea for our club, IF it is implemented correctly.
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I though promotion-relegation was a corner stone of the whole PL, to ensure it has the best teams.
How do you know the teams getting promoted are better than those getting relegated?
You don't. But if you have one or two teams yo-yo'ing between the PL and the Championship and the teams they replace when they are promoted falling away to mid-Championship obscurity then that suggests that you've got the best twenty, or thereabouts.
As for a wage cap, I'm all in favour. The only footballers on this planet who should be earning £40k per week should be Lionel Messi and the like - not Habib fucking Baye.
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The game is moribund
What next - top teams in the champs league dictating where and when they play their next league games - oh forgot thats already happened
Top teams around europe being seeded in champs league so the first rounds are just money making gimmicks - oops done that
Kick off times to coincide with the largest tv audience like the far east - imagine mid day KO for the bigger games - oh shit they have already done that as well
Teams talking about own tv rights to capitalise far eastern revenues and fuck all the rest - in discussion
The 39th game - no matter how many times it gets batted away it will never go away
I am close to telling the game to go to hell
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Not a chance.
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It appears I should have waited for the "more to follow." The rest of the article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15336398.stm
Blackburn joined the likes of Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool and Chelsea in this class when they were taken over by Indian-owned Venky's Group last season.
But the Premier League told BBC Sport that the move would be a non-starter, with the Football Association retaining the power to veto any proposals.
A Premier League spokesman also said that they did not recognise LMA chief executive Bevan's claims, which come a week after the government demanded changes to the way that football is run.
Sports minister Hugh Robertson said that an FA-led licensing system would be brought in to safeguard against issues such as financial mismanagement, asset-stripping owners and tax avoidance.
The government also asked for rules to manage club debts and an overhaul of the FA board.
Last Wednesday, Liverpool's managing director Ian Ayre also said the Premier League's overseas television revenues should be skewed in favour of big clubs.
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Thanks Markus but ambiguous ain't it. At least in terms of the Liverpool statement. I suppose they consider themselves a big club. Again, we (Pool) create the revenue so buggar the rest.
Who would, in any case, determine who makes up the new non relegation Premier League? Leeds. Nottingham Forest and a few others might claim history. Do they just choose a season and select from the top seventeen?
Attendance? Revenue? I dunno. Relegation is part of the game and just as the promotion play offs have created a new revenue stream for 'smaller' clubs it gives the PL a reason. The likes of Blackpool bring variety and excitement and special times for their supporters. And gives them a well deserved injection of PL/TV cash. It is what they fight for. The Wigans are just going to say 'so what' if selected.
Can't and mustn't work. But... wouldn't be surprised.
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I'm old school I like the league the way it is three up three down whatever will they think of next.
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The argument runs that if your share of the pot is guaranteed then you can take a longer term view of things and really look to build for the future without the catastrophic effects of the relegation trap door looming. Rugby League have already done this and it was broadly a popular move. Whether it's worked in terms of improving those at the bottom of the new closed shop is open to debate.
And what about the long-established clubs with a history of a century or more who now don't stand a snowball-in-hell's chance of making it to the top table? Teams like Featherstone, Hunslet, Batley or Leigh will probably never again get their crack at the big time. I doubt any of their fans would describe their bar as "broadly popular".
Rugby League has prostituted itself for Sky's money even more than football, if that is possible, so using it as an example is ridiculous. What else do you want from their litany of crass "innovations"? Playing during the summer months? Inviting clubs from other countries to increase the spread of the PL? Creating franchises in areas of the country currently under-represented? Deciding that the team that finishes top after 38 games are no longer the champions, because the top six then have to play a convoluted knock-out competition leading to a Grand Final (which in RL this year was won by the team that finished the fifth in the league season)?
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Its a hideous plan but you can bet your boots we would have our nose in that trough.
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Playing during the summer months?
Happens now, with the Euros and the WC, every other year; and with the extended pre-season tournies.
Inviting clubs from other countries to increase the spread of the PL?
Well, they have mooted this already with suggestions that the Glasgow clubs come south.
Creating franchises in areas of the country currently under-represented?
MK Dons?
Deciding that the team that finishes top after 38 games are no longer the champions, because the top six then have to play a convoluted knock-out competition leading to a Grand Final (which in RL this year was won by the team that finished the fifth in the league season)?
This is something that might well get suggested ... but I suspect the managers would be dead agin' it. But if the money's there from TV and the Asian markets, it could well become a reality; perhaps along with a reduced PL of, say, 16 clubs.
I'm not suggesting these 'cos I support them but simply to say that the reality of some of the ideas for 'developing the game' are out there in some format.
Now, as for the annual draft: that might be an idea worth chasing ...
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I though promotion-relegation was a corner stone of the whole PL, to ensure it has the best teams.
I'd file this under scaremongering.
Yep, I'd file it under scaremongering, and lazy journalism too.
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I'm old school I like the league the way it is three up three down whatever will they think of next.
I prefer it the way it WAS... any club, no matter how small with the potential to compete at the top with sound management. When Nottingham Forest could get promotion then win the League in their first season, then the European Cup the season after. When Wimbledon could rise from Non-League to the top division within a decade and go onto win the FA Cup. When Ipswich Town could win a European trophy, and yes, when our own club could rise from the third division to Champions of Europe in ten years.
It will never be that way again, of course. The Premier League, Sky, and in particular the Bosman ruling put paid to the dreams of the vast majority of clubs. Money is king.
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Is this the fifth or sixth time that this has been mooted as a possibility since the PL's inception? Now the scaremongering is that the dastardly foreign owners now want it.
Although someone mentioned that the Venky's didn't realise that relegation existed from the prem when they bought Blackburn.
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Club Statement (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2485202,00.html)
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We were confused and surprised by Mr Bevan's remarks today stating that unnamed American and Asian owners have been talking about scrapping promotion and relegation to the Premier League.
If he intended this group to specifically include Aston Villa, as could be inferred by his comments, then we would ask him to confirm as much.
We might also add that the founding of the Football League in 1888 was led by a previous Chairman of Aston Villa, William McGregor.
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Well said the board.
Time to move on.
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Its a hideous plan but you can bet your boots we would have our nose in that trough.
Could you have been any more wrong?
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We were confused and surprised by Mr Bevan's remarks today stating that unnamed American and Asian owners have been talking about scrapping promotion and relegation to the Premier League.
If he intended this group to specifically include Aston Villa, as could be inferred by his comments, then we would ask him to confirm as much.
We might also add that the founding of the Football League in 1888 was led by a previous Chairman of Aston Villa, William McGregor.
It's nice to see us on the front foot. Well played Villa.
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STOP THEM STOP THEM. RISE UP PEOPLE AND STOP THEM BEFORE NOTHING IS LEFT!
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I haven't read our statement but let's see what moral high ground we take if it looks a reality.
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Next will be throw a dice for who will win the league, why bother tyring out the underpaid darlings who want to be our role models, sex drugs rock and roll and you actually want me to come off the bench boss this seat is warm? roughly translated of course.(Ive only been here 5 years so dont understand the basics except show me the lira)
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We were confused and surprised by Mr Bevan's remarks today stating that unnamed American and Asian owners have been talking about scrapping promotion and relegation to the Premier League.
If he intended this group to specifically include Aston Villa, as could be inferred by his comments, then we would ask him to confirm as much.
We might also add that the founding of the Football League in 1888 was led by a previous Chairman of Aston Villa, William McGregor.
It's nice to see us on the front foot. Well played Villa.
shove that in your pipe Mr Bevan
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Those who even thought this is a good idea is a moron. If this happens ill walk away from football
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It would not be a bad idea for our club, IF it is implemented correctly.
And that way is?
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Just shows that state of the game when we actually think it may have even the remotest possibility of it happening.
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We were confused and surprised by Mr Bevan's remarks today stating that unnamed American and Asian owners have been talking about scrapping promotion and relegation to the Premier League.
If he intended this group to specifically include Aston Villa, as could be inferred by his comments, then we would ask him to confirm as much.
We might also add that the founding of the Football League in 1888 was led by a previous Chairman of Aston Villa, William McGregor.
Maybe I'm reading too much in to it, and they just don't want to deny something that no one has specifically claimed that they said, but I find it a bit concerning they haven't actually said they'd be against it. It's a bit of a statement about nothing.
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A part of me wants this to happen. The sooner football destroys itself and we can all start again the better.
A bit like all those hardened communists who treat every setback as a step towards the inevitable conflicts that will destroy capitalism. Or something.
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I think it would be a great idea.
At the end of the season all of the players are up for grabs and the team that finished last the previous season gets first pick. Teams can then trade players and make money.
As if ........
Mind you, it would add some interest to the transfer windows. Also the teams that want to buy the title can pay a bit more to help out the other clubs.
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Do football a favour. Do it now while small heath are out of it. Wasn't MacGregor merely on our committee?
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Do football a favour. Do it now while small heath are out of it. Wasn't MacGregor merely on our committee?
He was chairman for a year.
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I wish the club hadn't released that statement. There's dignity in silence. That statement is the sort of thing the Blues would do, except their version would be riddled with spelling mistakes.
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It read to me like Villa were challenging him to include them in the statement, at which time they can deny it outright.
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Club Statement (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2485202,00.html)
Made me puff my chest out for the first time in months, that.
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I wish the club hadn't released that statement. There's dignity in silence. That statement is the sort of thing the Blues would do, except their version would be riddled with spelling mistakes.
silence leads to people assuming we are in agreement with this nonsense. The club did the right thing in publicly challenging Bevan to come clean and ultimately distancing themselves from the assumptions made by Bevan in doing so.
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Last week most of us were up in arms about Liverpool's claim for more of the overseas TV money.
This, in my opinion, would be even more destructive to the fabric of the game as the Scouse telly cash grab.
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I wish the club hadn't released that statement. There's dignity in silence. That statement is the sort of thing the Blues would do, except their version would be riddled with spelling mistakes.
silence leads to people assuming we are in agreement with this nonsense. The club did the right thing in publicly challenging Bevan to come clean and ultimately distancing themselves from the assumptions made by Bevan in doing so.
Agree entirely. I do believe there are foreign owners who would back the scheme, but I don't think it would ever be allowed to pass. Even though these owners are businessmen and want to earn money, I don't believe they wouldn't consider the impact on public interest is this did happen. They aren't stupid.
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The irony of the proposal is that more often than not, it is the relegation battle that sustains the interest right up until the last kick of the season. It has all the elements of suspense, unpredictability and excitement that are lacking at the other end of the table.
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This will not happen and whoever would propose such an idea has no real interest in the good of football and only an interest in money.
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Doing away with promotion/relegation would mean the actual results at the end of the season will have no ongoing significance whatsoever.
I therefore would like to propose an even more radical overhaul - namely eliminating the goalposts.
Instead football pitches will be very large and circular, two teams of 10 outfield players will compete to keep possession of the football during six 15 minute sessions. The clubs will of course continue with their normal season long round robin of fixtures much as today.
Large circular pitches will allow the construction of much larger stadia for our bigger best supported clubs, and the regular breaks will be a lot more media friendly to allow TV companies their advertising slots.
The most entertaining teams weaving the most skilful and intricate patterns with the ball will naturally enough attract the most fans. So at present that will be Barcelona on the world stage and in this country,.... errr Arsenal ???.
League tables will be maintained as an added interest despite the fact that there will be no goals and consequently no results. Teams will be ranked from top to bottom on the basis of revenue generated. Those teams providing the most entertaining possession football will obviously be pulling in more fans and more revenue.
Some may mock my proposals now, but didnt McGregor have his critics ? Its time for football to move on and break out of the restrictions of 19th century thinking that thought the primary aim was not just to move the ball over a given line in a particular place, but to perform the act more times than your opponent during the game ! In my opinion, a now outdated concept encouraged by Victorian ideas of laissez- faire competition.
Under my system, when someone who doesnt like football says to you "Its just a load of people kicking a bag of air round a field" you will now be able to tell them...."Yes! It is !"
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Doing away with promotion/relegation would mean the actual results at the end of the season will have no ongoing significance whatsoever.
I therefore would like to propose an even more radical overhaul - namely eliminating the goalposts.
Instead football pitches will be very large and circular, two teams of 10 outfield players will compete to keep possession of the football during six 15 minute sessions. The clubs will of course continue with their normal season long round robin of fixtures much as today.
Large circular pitches will allow the construction of much larger stadia for our bigger best supported clubs, and the regular breaks will be a lot more media friendly to allow TV companies their advertising slots.
The most entertaining teams weaving the most skilful and intricate patterns with the ball will naturally enough attract the most fans. So at present that will be Barcelona on the world stage and in this country,.... errr Arsenal ???.
League tables will be maintained as an added interest despite the fact that there will be no goals and consequently no results. Teams will be ranked from top to bottom on the basis of revenue generated. Those teams providing the most entertaining possession football will obviously be pulling in more fans and more revenue.
Some may mock my proposals now, but didnt McGregor have his critics ? Its time for football to move on and break out of the restrictions of 19th century thinking that thought the primary aim was not just to move the ball over a given line in a particular place, but to perform the act more times than your opponent during the game ! In my opinion, a now outdated concept encouraged by Victorian ideas of laissez- faire competition.
Under my system, when someone who doesnt like football says to you "Its just a load of people kicking a bag of air round a field" you will now be able to tell them...."Yes! It is !"
Fucking pathetic idea! Have you seen us try and keep the ball? ;-)
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Last week most of us were up in arms about Liverpool's claim for more of the overseas TV money.This, in my opinion, would be even more destructive to the fabric of the game as the Scouse telly cash grab.
The problem is that the two proposals go hand in glove.
A PL protected from relegation might be prepared to offer the elite clubs ( whether Liverpool are one of those is a matter for debate) (enhanced)individual rights in a quid pro quo.
Then there is the issue of whether a reconsitituted PL would include Wigan, Swansea, QPR, Bolton, Blackburn in favour of the likes of Leeds, Forest, Southampton, one of the Sheffield (or even Bristol/ East Anglian) clubs.
It would be the end of top flight pro football as I have come to know and love it, and would be the point at which i would find something more interesting to follow.
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We were confused and surprised by Mr Bevan's remarks today stating that unnamed American and Asian owners have been talking about scrapping promotion and relegation to the Premier League.
If he intended this group to specifically include Aston Villa, as could be inferred by his comments, then we would ask him to confirm as much.
We might also add that the founding of the Football League in 1888 was led by a previous Chairman of Aston Villa, William McGregor.
It's nice to see us on the front foot. Well played Villa.
Seconded, split infinitive notwithstanding.
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Atleast in American pro sports there is parity and fairness unlike when it comes to football where all you need to do is spunk 300 million on players and win everything.
The worst team gets the top draft pick... it allows the teams who haven't done so well a chance to get better and compete rather than it just constantly being dominated by 3 or 4 teams because they have the most money. A team with one of the worst records can go to playoff contenders in just one season. It's not just the same one or two teams who win the Superbowl every year, its a more competitive and entertaining league than the Premier League. Oh who's going to win the Prem again this season... Man United, yawn.
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No relegation? Abhorrent idea. But needs must. If we are keeping McLeish, we have to vote for that shit as one.
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The situation....yawn.
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The situation....yawn.
What an excellent, well thought out response.
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