Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dave on August 31, 2011, 10:30:07 PM
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I suppose that now this is all but official it may as well have its own thread.
Villa can confirm that Alan Hutton and Jermaine Jenas are currently undergoing medicals.
If the deals are completed, right-back Hutton would join permanently while the move for midfielder Jenas would be a season-long loan.
Hutton, fair enough. Jenas is possibly the most under-whelming signing since Routledge.
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I don't have anything against either player really, I just can't see that either of them are an improvement on players that we've got rid of this summer.
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erm.....welcome I suppose.
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I suppose the silver lining would be that even Jenas would play better in Heskey's current role than Heskey would.
But I'd rather have any of N'Zogbia, Ireland or Bannan playing there over Jenas.
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5 years into the Bright Future, I really thought we'd be doing better than Jermaine fucking Jenas on loan.
Welcome to happy camp Villa lads.
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Agree with all the posts so far in this thread.
Welcome to the pair of them. I've always thought Hutton was reasonable enough and we need a right back. The best thing I can say about Jenas is that I hope he proves me wrong.
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I can almost here the clatter of feet, as all those stay away fans come rushing back to Villa Park en masse.
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Agree with all the posts so far in this thread.
Welcome to the pair of them. I've always thought Hutton was reasonable enough and we need a right back. The best thing I can say about Jenas is that I hope he proves me wrong.
This is turning into the season oh hoping to be proved wrong.
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Hutton's similar to Walker in that he's good going forward but a bit shaky at the back. A good deal though for me, as tidy as Luke Young was he offered nothing going forward.
Jenas is probably going to be more useful than Makoun, it's a loan, and he's an experienced international so on paper it's a tidy bit of work.
We'll see, but I reckon just having a couple of new faces will help freshen things up, allowing us to re-introduce the concept of competition for places.
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Hutton for Young is pretty much like for like - not a downgrade, not a major upgrade.
Jenas is rubbish, but he's better than no other option.
If only we'd done something to address the already existing gaping holes in our squad rather than the ones we created for ourselves on top last week.
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Hutton fair enough, we did need another right back. Jenas is probably the last type of player we wanted. Best of luck to them both though.
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Remeber when we signed Carew and Young? All those jokes about Carew's being bigger than Young's! Laptop that is.Those were the days,changed the team completely.Hutton has been on loan to Sunderland and erm...had 11 appearances,if he was any good surely they would have wanted him,so would Spurs.
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5 years into the Bright Future, I really thought we'd be doing better than Jermaine fucking Jenas on loan.
Welcome to happy camp Villa lads.
If this is the quality of player we are signing after 5 years, what will be the quality in 10 years. Is it possible to get a player cheaper than free?
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I think because I came to terms a few weeks ago with us unlikely to be doing any business other than "trading" I'm less bothered than some of you.
Neither would have been anywhere near the top of my list but there's a logic to both of them.
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Hutton redefines the phrase undistinguished.A dreadful signing.
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Welcome aboard to the pair of them.
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Neither would have been anywhere near the top of my list but there's a logic to both of them.
I can't see any logic at all in getting rid of Makoun and bringing in Jenas to replace him.
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Like everything thats happened this summer these signings are distinctly underwhelming
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I think both are good signings. With the squad as light as it is, we needed a good central midfielder with experience, and Jenas is a good player, snobbery says he is not but I think he will prove a really good move. Hutton if he gets his Rangers or Scotland form could be a bargain, and he has a decent shot on him.
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The sort of signings I expected from this board after they employed this manager.......... 12 out 4 in 2 of which on loan = Tidy profit for Lerner.
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Neither would have been anywhere near the top of my list but there's a logic to both of them.
I can't see any logic at all in getting rid of Makoun and bringing in Jenas to replace him.
You don't see any logic in bringing in an experienced PL player to replace one who has yet to settle and who only 8 days ago failed to impose himself against Hereford? In an ideal world we'd have kept him and given him another few mo this to find his feet but it's not an ideal world and we've got Bannan, Delph and Ireland to settle in so it's nice to have one who is ready now.
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I think both are good signings. With the squad as light as it is, we needed a good central midfielder with experience, and Jenas is a good player, snobbery says he is not but I think he will prove a really good move. Hutton if he gets his Rangers or Scotland form could be a bargain, and he has a decent shot on him.
My exact thoughts
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I think both are good signings. With the squad as light as it is, we needed a good central midfielder with experience, and Jenas is a good player, snobbery says he is not but I think he will prove a really good move. Hutton if he gets his Rangers or Scotland form could be a bargain, and he has a decent shot on him.
They may prove to be fruitful, but we were short of players anyway, and they are only replacing what we shipped out this week.
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I think both are good signings. With the squad as light as it is, we needed a good central midfielder with experience, and Jenas is a good player, snobbery says he is not but I think he will prove a really good move. Hutton if he gets his Rangers or Scotland form could be a bargain, and he has a decent shot on him.
My exact thoughts
And me.
Well done to the admin as well, signing three on the last day.
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We need a right back, so Hutton will fill that slot. Jenas is an injury-prone enigma who, in my opinion, has a lot to do to prove his worth. I just don't see what he offers over those we already have.
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The sort of signings I expected from this board after they employed this manager.......... 12 out 4 in 2 of which on loan = Tidy profit for Lerner.
Only 1 player is on loan, 3 have been signed permanently!
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Hutton offers us more going forward than Young but is probably not as good a defender. However, since he's significantly younger it looks like good business.
Although Jenas has struggled to push on from the potential of his early career he is far from 'rubbish' as some have described him. You don't get awarded young player of the year for being rubbish. If he can return to the player of old he'll be an asset.
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The sort of signings I expected from this board after they employed this manager.......... 12 out 4 in 2 of which on loan = Tidy profit for Lerner.
Rubbish. Maybe it'll help pay off some of the debt we owe him, hardly profit.
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Remeber when we signed Carew and Young? All those jokes about Carew's being bigger than Young's! Laptop that is.Those were the days,changed the team completely.Hutton has been on loan to Sunderland and erm...had 11 appearances,if he was any good surely they would have wanted him,so would Spurs.
Sunderland did want Hutton at the time, but wouldn't meet Spurs valuation. Spurs paid £9 million for him in '08. He's a good player, makes me wonder what some people expect from a full back?? 15-20 goals a season?
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I think both are good signings. With the squad as light as it is, we needed a good central midfielder with experience, and Jenas is a good player, snobbery says he is not but I think he will prove a really good move. Hutton if he gets his Rangers or Scotland form could be a bargain, and he has a decent shot on him.
They may prove to be fruitful, but we were short of players anyway, and they are only replacing what we shipped out this week.
I think this all leaves us with a squad of 23 first team players. We haven't replaced the quality of Ashley Young, but otherwise....we're about the same as we were, I'd say, minus a lot of superfluous players.
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I see the point in getting Hutton in with Lichaj injured and Luke Young seemingly keen to leave for about the last three seasons. Jenas though I'm struggling to see the logic behind.
We need a dirty bastard ball-winner, not someone who will be out for six months at the meerest hint of a tackle. I worry as well that he will stifle Bannan's development.
Ah well, best of luck Jermaine and Alan.... I'm assuming they have actually signed?
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The sort of signings I expected from this board after they employed this manager.......... 12 out 4 in 2 of which on loan = Tidy profit for Lerner.
How many of those 12 would get a sniff of the first team?
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Regards signing of right back i heard rumours of a world class defender signing for Villa but that was denied - apparently it was Hutton dressed as Lahm
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Jenas will shock people I think. Put my neck on the line, I reckon he will be in quite a few peoples top 3 players of the season, providing he gets games.
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Neither would have been anywhere near the top of my list but there's a logic to both of them.
I can't see any logic at all in getting rid of Makoun and bringing in Jenas to replace him.
Me neither Dave, me neither.
We started gettin linked with jenas when Mon came, I didn't want him then but I'd rather have had him then rather than 6 years later. I never thought being a Villa fan would go back to being this shite and underwhelming
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Jenas will shock people I think. Put my neck on the line, I reckon he will be in quite a few peoples top 3 players of the season, providing he gets games.
Not that I'm agreeing with that prediction, but I seem to recall there was a time he was getting regular games under Rednkapp and he looked very tidy. I'm open-minded about him.
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Neither would have been anywhere near the top of my list but there's a logic to both of them.
I can't see any logic at all in getting rid of Makoun and bringing in Jenas to replace him.
You don't see any logic in bringing in an experienced PL player to replace one who has yet to settle and who only 8 days ago failed to impose himself against Hereford? In an ideal world we'd have kept him and given him another few mo this to find his feet but it's not an ideal world and we've got Bannan, Delph and Ireland to settle in so it's nice to have one who is ready now.
Ready for what?
I would rather keep an experienced international midfielder in whom we have invested time and money and who offers us cover in our weakest area of the pitch, over an inferior player who belongs to somebody else. Robbie Savage and Lee Bowyer are both experienced Premier League players and I wouldn't want them either.
As for Makoun struggling to impose himself against Hereford, Jenas tends to struggle to impose himself on an empty room.
Oh well, what's done is done.
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The sort of signings I expected from this board after they employed this manager.......... 12 out 4 in 2 of which on loan = Tidy profit for Lerner.
Rubbish. Maybe it'll help pay off some of the debt we owe him, hardly profit.
Yeah, if he hadn't thrown money at overpriced shite while MON was here then we wouldn't owe him so much.
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Jenas will shock people I think. Put my neck on the line, I reckon he will be in quite a few peoples top 3 players of the season, providing he gets games.
He won't shock me, he's talented enough, but it's always been his head that's been wrong. He'll fade in to the background. Back up at best.
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A big welcome and good luck to both of them - my first time watching a transfer window on this site and it's been an education!
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It seems like we just emailed all Premiership teams and asked 'Who have you got spare that you want to get rid of?' And only Spurs replied.
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I'm OK with Hutton. We finished the game against Blackburn with only three outfield players over 6 foot, so an extra bit of height in there for set pieces is good.
He's only 26, quick and good going forward. Plus it enabled us to get a fee for Luke while we could.
Jenas is shite. Makoun is a better player and I'd rather have kept Michael Bradley.
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Stinking lack of ambition shown this summer.
Walker and Milner wouldn't have been crazy money in the same positions and had us chasing Europe.
Worried to be honest that Lerner isnt doing the same as that Pompey chairman and looking for his money back.
Mid table mediocrity here we come
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I think these signings destroy any illusions I had that the sales and releases were part of a plan to rebalance the squad so that we had quality experienced players mixed with cheaper, promising youngsters. They are average, older, on reasonably good money, and probably going to be played over our younger players who would benefit from match experience.
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Time to get behind these 2 and the rest of the squad.
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The paint is now dry. Can I stop watching it now?
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Jenas will shock people I think. Put my neck on the line, I reckon he will be in quite a few peoples top 3 players of the season, providing he gets games.
Right there with ya. I think Jenas will be a good, good player for us. We'll want to sign him after.
Welcome aboard lads. Wear the shirt with pride.
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Jenas will shock people I think. Put my neck on the line, I reckon he will be in quite a few peoples top 3 players of the season, providing he gets games.
I don't have a particular problem with Jenas, I just don't think he is what we needed. We needed either a tough defensive minded midfielder or a creative attacking one and he is neither. He is just pretty much average at everything. I fear we will continue to go into games with Heskey as our attacking midfielder and with Jenas next to petrov and Delph on the bench and to me that is no improvement.
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Time to get behind these 2 and the rest of the squad.
They'll get cheered on, probably booed off.
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Stinking lack of ambition shown this summer.
Walker and Milner wouldn't have been crazy money in the same positions and had us chasing Europe.
Worried to be honest that Lerner isnt doing the same as that Pompey chairman and looking for his money back.
Mid table mediocrity here we come
Firstly, Milner and Walker weren't for sale. Secondly, you seriously think Milner isn't on crazy money?
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Jenas will shock people I think. Put my neck on the line, I reckon he will be in quite a few peoples top 3 players of the season, providing he gets games.
I'll go with you there. Replacing Petrov and in with Delph would make us better imo. Not earth shattering but not the travesty some are making him out to be...
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Shit.
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Stinking lack of ambition shown this summer.
Walker and Milner wouldn't have been crazy money in the same positions and had us chasing Europe.
Worried to be honest that Lerner isnt doing the same as that Pompey chairman and looking for his money back.
Mid table mediocrity here we come
Firstly, Milner and Walker weren't for sale. Secondly, you seriously think Milner isn't on crazy money?
Milner and Barry were both on a "100 best payed footballers" list I saw the other day.
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The Jenas signing is a travesty.
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Stinking lack of ambition shown this summer.
Walker and Milner wouldn't have been crazy money in the same positions and had us chasing Europe.
Worried to be honest that Lerner isnt doing the same as that Pompey chairman and looking for his money back.
Mid table mediocrity here we come
There was no way that either of those were coming back. Face facts, for the immediate future Milner is out of our price range and wouldn't come back and walker was never available anyway.
Time to get behind Hutton and Jenas.
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Deals confirmed (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2438062,00.html).
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Jenas will shock people I think. Put my neck on the line, I reckon he will be in quite a few peoples top 3 players of the season, providing he gets games.
I'll go with you there. Replacing Petrov and in with Delph would make us better imo.
Goodness me.
He's surely not planning on playing Jenas instead of Petrov in a midfield two is he? I'd assumed we were signing him to play in the three behind Bent.
Jenas instead of Petrov really doesn't bear thinking about.
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Stinking lack of ambition shown this summer.
Walker and Milner wouldn't have been crazy money in the same positions and had us chasing Europe.
Worried to be honest that Lerner isnt doing the same as that Pompey chairman and looking for his money back.
Mid table mediocrity here we come
You are right, they have shown thier hand. The RL regime has gone badly wrong and now they are trying to protect his investment. Its pretty obvious now that RL wants out.
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Shit.
Thats the spirit get behind the team!
Welcome both, hutton is an improvement on young in terms of age and probably wages.
Jenas under rated think he will be good for us!
UTV
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Both decent players IMO. I think Hutton is better than Young, so I actually think that is an improvement.
Cant complain really
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Clearly he has a fixation with the left side of any goal, but any goal is a good one....
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welcome. i guess
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Double post
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With a bit of imagination and some decent scouting we could have had Davide Santon and Yoann Cabaye.
Be interesting to see which pair has a better season.
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With a bit of imagination and some decent scouting we could have had Davide Santon and Yoann Cabaye.
Be interesting to see which pair has a better season.
Definitely. But I'm going to err on the side of caution and go with the proven PL players right now.
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With a bit of imagination and some decent scouting we could have had Davide Santon and Yoann Cabaye.
Be interesting to see which pair has a better season.
This is the problem unless the club develops an informed database of available talent and who we should be looking at, who we should be spending money on, then the likes of Jenas and Hutton it is.
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Both signings are relatively uninspiring, but both add a liitle depth to the squad.
Never really been impressed by Hutton, but as with Jenas, they both rarely get first team football and both have a point to prove.
If I remember correctly, Jenas actually showed some decent form for Spurs when he was given the opportunity last season, so hoping he can do well for us. If Delph can become the midfield tough guy and stop getting himself booked, then a can see a pairing with Jenas working quite well...alternatively he can play left side midfield and do a proper job instead of playing Heskey out of position.
We've got 4 very winnable games coming up so a good chance for them to settle in. Good luck and welcome to VP.
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Diego went on loan in the end ;-(
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With a bit of imagination and some decent scouting we could have had Davide Santon and Yoann Cabaye.
Be interesting to see which pair has a better season.
Definitely. But I'm going to err on the side of caution and go with the proven PL players right now.
What is really meant by proven in this context?
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With a bit of imagination and some decent scouting we could have had Davide Santon and Yoann Cabaye.
Be interesting to see which pair has a better season.
Definitely. But I'm going to err on the side of caution and go with the proven PL players right now.
I'd rather go on the side of sense and go with the far better players.
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FWIW I always thought that Hutton was a useful FB going forward and with Dunne and Collins getting back to their form two seasons ago it probably will turn out better and in reality Hutton is a better defender than Kyle Walker especially bearing in mind that we have Given in goal this season.
The Jenas/Makoun scenario is interesting. Both players are loaners and I would expect that if Jenas picks up an injury which would keep him out for a while there is language in the loan agreement to ship him back to the lads in the lane.
Sending Makoun to Greece and the Champion's League gives both Villa and Olympiakos time to assess his value. While no one can doubt Makoun's one touch attacking style in the few games we have seen him, there are questions about his abilities as a defender and style of tackling.
It will be interesting to see whether a change of scenery and playing styles will suit Jenas. IIIRC Darren Bent was underwhelming at WHL. On the bright side for Jenas is the fact that a goodly number of fans aren't expecting anything from him which means that even if he performs moderately he will have exceeded expectations.
I think I would have touch my cap to AM slightly on this one. Moving Young to QPR for an undisclosed fee gets Young off the payroll along with probably a modest fee all of which is set off against the 3M plus for Hutton and I am going to guess that Huttons wages will be less than Young's.
What I am starting to feel is that AM is probably a more astute businessman than MON. It must be that canny Scots DNA that manifests itself from time to time but I have a good feeling about this one.
The only thing that worries me is that my brother who weirdly enough is a spuds fan has had this smirking grin all over his face ever since he heard about this potential deal. What worries me most is his comment that Spuds Fans are singing Big Eck songs of praise down WHL.
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Both signings are relatively uninspiring, but both add a liitle depth to the squad.
Taking the squad from 7 days ago, they bring us up to only 2 down on that.
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With a bit of imagination and some decent scouting we could have had Davide Santon and Yoann Cabaye.
Be interesting to see which pair has a better season.
Definitely. But I'm going to err on the side of caution and go with the proven PL players right now.
I'd rather go on the side of sense and go with the far better players.
Like I say, I'll reserve judgement on Cabaye and Santon until they've proven they're up to PL standards. You may not be over the moon about Jenas and Hutton but they're established Premier League players and you know what you're getting from them. If Newcastle have signed two legends in the making, fine. But they might not have, is all I'm saying, because none of us know.
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The sort of signings I expected from this board after they employed this manager.......... 12 out 4 in 2 of which on loan = Tidy profit for Lerner.
How many of those 12 would get a sniff of the first team?
Downing, Young and Friedel were three of our best players last season. We've replaced like for like on two of them for a fraction of the cost and cut a huge amount off the wage bill.
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With a bit of imagination and some decent scouting we could have had Davide Santon and Yoann Cabaye.
Be interesting to see which pair has a better season.
Definitely. But I'm going to err on the side of caution and go with the proven PL players right now.
I'd rather go on the side of sense and go with the far better players.
Like I say, I'll reserve judgement on Cabaye and Santon until they've proven they're up to PL standards. You may not be over the moon about Jenas and Hutton but they're established Premier League players and you know what you're getting from them. If Newcastle have signed two legends in the making, fine. But they might not have, is all I'm saying, because none of us know.
The fact that both Cabaye and Santon have shown since the start of their careers that they are both extremely good is a plus point though.
Jenas has repeatedly shown that he is nothing more than very average and Hutton - well, I'm happy enough with him.
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Hutton is a decent full back, nothing to get overly excited about, but then when do you get excited about full backs?
Jenas is shit? No he's not. Underwhelming? Yes. But only because he hasnt been getting a game for Spurs. A couple of years ago he was playing his way into the England team. The Modric signing f***ed up at Spurs and he should have left earlier. He definitely has a point to prove, is young enough to do it, but is mentally strong enough to do it? My arse is firmly on the fence.
Over to you Mr. McLeish, what is the best you can do with this lot? Anything higher than 7th and I will be impressed.
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I genuinly don't know what to think of Jenas, there's a part of me that thinks he's shit but I think thats purely because he has'nt been playing, if I remember correctly he was an important member of the Spurs midfield that finished 5th twice, maybe a move away is exactly what he needs, I'll certainly give him a chance before judging, happy with Hutton, he's a bit of a hard ****** too which is something were majorly lacking.
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Hutton is a decent full back, nothing to get overly excited about, but then when do you get excited about full backs?
Jenas is shit? No he's not. Underwhelming? Yes. But only because he hasnt been getting a game for Spurs. A couple of years ago he was playing his way into the England team. The Modric signing f***ed up at Spurs and he should have left earlier. He definitely has a point to prove, is young enough to do it, but is mentally strong enough to do it? My arse is firmly on the fence.
Over to you Mr. McLeish, what is the best you can do with this lot? Anything higher than 7th and I will be impressed.
Aye. If he gets above 7th he's a fucking genius, hoof ball or no hoof ball.
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Two players we didn't need are here now so I guess we will support them but. ..
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Never been a massive fan of jenas and never saw what the fuss was about when he was at Newcastle. But he's a better player than NRC who if have kept, if a different type of player. Think he provides competition for the midfield 2 or to play in a 3, not to play the heskey role. Given the circumstances mcleish faced, I'd give him a 7 for his transfer work. Good signings. Hutton was playing champions league last year.
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Problem with Jenas is, if he does well old rubber face will keep him next year like he has with Kyle Walker. I really don't like this loan system especially when we take Spurzzz players who are deemed not good enough for them, but they are for us.
Shows how we've gone backwards.
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We is a depository for rejected Sperms innit.
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Never been a massive fan of jenas and never saw what the fuss was about when he was at Newcastle. But he's a better player than NRC who if have kept, if a different type of player. Think he provides competition for the midfield 2 or to play in a 3, not to play the heskey role. Given the circumstances mcleish faced, I'd give him a 7 for his transfer work. Good signings. Hutton was playing champions league last year.
He is not better than NRC
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I'm not keen on Jenas I must say... one bright spot though. N'Zogbia has been twattering how pleased he is about the signing and how "Jermaine always brought out the best in me" (at Newcastle, I assume). If he helps The Zog settle in and up his performances then he could be an ok acquisition I guess.
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I'm not keen on Jenas I must say... one bright spot though. N'Zogbia has been twattering how pleased he is about the signing and how "Jermaine always brought out the best in me" (at Newcastle, I assume). If he helps The Zog settle in and up his performances then he could be an ok acquisition I guess.
Totally forgot they ever played together, well atleast thats a positive.
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Never been a massive fan of jenas and never saw what the fuss was about when he was at Newcastle. But he's a better player than NRC who if have kept, if a different type of player. Think he provides competition for the midfield 2 or to play in a 3, not to play the heskey role. Given the circumstances mcleish faced, I'd give him a 7 for his transfer work. Good signings. Hutton was playing champions league last year.
He is not better than NRC
I yes he is. I don't rate Jenas but going forward he is better, can score more goals and is alot more mobile.
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Two players we didn't need are here now so I guess we will support them but. ..
eh? We didn't need a full back or a midfielder?
Neither are earth shattering transfers, but they'll serve a purpose. Jenas has been blighted by injuries and for acting a bit of a knob at times. But he can be a good player if he wants to be. Question is does he want to be? Still it's only a loan. Hutton is a solid signing and in my opinion an upgrade on Luke Young plus younger and very likely cheaper.
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How many of those 12 would get a sniff of the first team?
Exactly my thoughts Dave. I think we've got rid of a lot of dead wood and lowered the wage bill without weakening the first team and bench if Albrighton can regain his form. Should free up some cash for players AM wants in Jan. and next summer.
From the Beeb who do don't appear to agree with the doom and gloom on here.
0012: So, safe to say Everton have had the worst transfer deadline day out of every top-flight club, and Tottenham also had a surprisingly disappointing time, despite getting Scott Parker of course. Bolton, QPR, Aston Villa and Arsenal, yes, Arsenal have had some of the best. I'll add Fulham to that list after learning about Bryan Ruiz. Liverpool did well to get Craig Bellamy but they will miss Raul Meireles. Chelsea left it very late but emerge with one of the deals of the day there.
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More great insights
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So we've signed an Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman today. What kind of a joke is that?
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So we've signed an Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman today. What kind of a joke is that?
heheheh. class
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Never been a massive fan of jenas and never saw what the fuss was about when he was at Newcastle. But he's a better player than NRC who if have kept, if a different type of player. Think he provides competition for the midfield 2 or to play in a 3, not to play the heskey role. Given the circumstances mcleish faced, I'd give him a 7 for his transfer work. Good signings. Hutton was playing champions league last year.
He is not better than NRC
I yes he is. I don't rate Jenas but going forward he is better, can score more goals and is alot more mobile.
Apples and oranges. If you look at our situation (and I was no lover of NRC) but we are more in need of a player who can tackle, get stuck in and work hard like NRC than one who can score goals or get forward like Jenas.
That said I'd like us to have a player of the first type who is much better than NRC.
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So we've signed an Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman today. What kind of a joke is that?
Very good, sir.
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Two spurs reserves and a unknown irish lad who we wont even see untill January, forgive me for not getting to excited!
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Jenas is better than NRC. That's why he's regularly been in England squads and nrc never has.
Of course, that could all be due to some cockney media mafia mass conspiracy (which didn't stop half our team being in the squad last year despite us being quite shit)
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As far as I could make out, the best to hope for for this season was
1) avoid a relegation fight
2) shed a lot of unwanted fat
3) give emerging reserves/youth teamers opportunity to state their case
4) go into next summer in a position to buy players who will move us closer to competing for something worth having.
Hutton may well help with the first, Jenas possibly. I can't see what impact they will have on 2-4 other than a negative one.
I'm more enthused about seeing what qualities the Irish lad has. It's the only signing that makes sense to me.
The saving grace with Jenas is that it is only a loan deal.
I'm trying to think of the last time we bought someone else's big money flop and got the better of the deal.
Alex Cropley ?
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I hope they do well here I've got a feeling they will welcome aboard to the pair of them.
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Whoop de do ?? Who f*ckin' cares?
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Whoop de do ?? Who f*ckin' cares?
Well if you dont, why bother posting on the thread??
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Jenas is clearly a talented player with a lot to prove, he might surprise a few people. Just calm down and give him a chance.
Hutton is a very good full-back and I'm surprised Spurs let him go. If he finds his top form with us, then we have an excellent player on our hands. He's pacy, athletic, good defensively and can make surging runs - both with the ball and on the overlap.
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The reason Spurs have let Hutton go is that they have replaced him with their reserve player who Villa have turned into an England international. T'ay fair.
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I think these are good signings. Jenas is like Delph, box-to-box, but with experience and a bit of a cooler head. Can't see how it is a bad signing.
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My father, a Spurs fan funnily enough, says both are good deals for Villa. Jenas, who I watched quite a bit when he was playing in the team 2-4 seasons ago was a really good box-to-box player who scored a few and worked really hard, played himself into the England squad. The arrival of Modric really restricted his playing time, so a move away is good for him - and we need a player like that. I think he'll do well this year for us, and might even be starting quite a lot of games. He'll certainly change a few opinions on here if he plays to his potential. However, he is definitely a central midfielder and not a left-sided attacker or one to put just behind Bent.
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Never been a massive fan of jenas and never saw what the fuss was about when he was at Newcastle. But he's a better player than NRC who if have kept, if a different type of player. Think he provides competition for the midfield 2 or to play in a 3, not to play the heskey role. Given the circumstances mcleish faced, I'd give him a 7 for his transfer work. Good signings. Hutton was playing champions league last year.
He is not better than NRC
I yes he is. I don't rate Jenas but going forward he is better, can score more goals and is alot more mobile.
Apples and oranges. If you look at our situation (and I was no lover of NRC) but we are more in need of a player who can tackle, get stuck in and work hard like NRC than one who can score goals or get forward like Jenas.
That said I'd like us to have a player of the first type who is much better than NRC.
The evidence of the first three games would suggest otherwise. It's not stopping the other team scoring that's been the problem.
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
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What a load of shite!!
RL has to have a look at what he's achieving here and ask himself is it time to cash in and move out of PL football.
He came here like a white knight - and then surrounded himself with people who knew nothing about football and a cheerleading former Marine General.
He then went all in with a egomaniac from Northern Ireland and gave him the keys to the safe while proclaiming a 5 year plan of note. 5 years down the track where are we:
- MON long since gone after buying every piece of crap he could find - with a few exceptions (who've now largely been sold on)
- The weakest squad i can remember
- 5 year plan in tatters - Jenas on loan for gods sake
- Heskey/Baye/Guzan/Ireland still on the payroll
- Strategy now seems to be panic buy at Christmas to avoid relegation - think this will be the same this year when there were bagains on offer this summer but we have been mismanaged to the point where we don't have a pot to piss in - i repeat Jenas on loan for gods sake
- No discernable scouting network in place - hence our reliance on cast offs from other clubs - sure they have PL experience but most of this summers new signings have current experience is warming a PL bench somewhere, only Nzog has current PL experience and that was battling relegation with Wigan and Newcastle
- Manager nobody wanted and who is refusing to back - very clear now why even Martinez felt Wigan had more to offer than we do
- Falling attendances
Surely there has to come a time when professional pride says - I came here with the best intentions but things have not gone as planned and to be quite frank i'm out of my depth, sure i've made some improvements to the facilities etc and i probably leave the club in a better state than what i found it - take solace in this and understand it's time to move on (hopefully with a profit if possible)
Villa are in decline - can we honestly say that as we stand today we are more competitive than we were the day RL walked in? Sure we had a tilt a 4th a few years back but the high risk strategy RL adopted by allowing MON to act the way he did, for as long as he did, has backfired and the blame for this is with RL
I sure as hell regret renewing my ST - but i'm stuck with Villa like the rest of us, and wouldn't have it any other way
I do reserve the right however to be underwhelmed by our current board and the predicament we now find ourselves in.
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
I don't think McGinge was looking to inspire you / us. What he's done is bring in two players that will do a decent job for us. Will we win the P'ship with them? - unlikely! Will we get relegated? - unlikely.
I am not inspired by them but I think that JJ will do an effective job for us. He's 'better' than NRC (although not quite a like-for-like comparison) and gives us more options in Midfield than we had 24 hours' ago. Hutton - whom I've seen very little - should be fine / reliable.
Uninspiring but pragmatic.
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
With respect to you UsualSuspect, you along with a lot of others seem to have already made your minds up that everything will definately be dull and uninspiring. Admittedly Saturday was just that but with the exception of the top 5 or 6 clubs I dont see much to be overly worried about and once AM finds his best formation then I think we'll be ok. I also think back to Ron Saunders who used to say that you had to 'earn the right to play football', ie to be solid and disciplined first. This is the road I think AM is going down
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I think Jenas will do well. He has a point to prove.
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The only silver lining to all this is that both players may turn out to be much better than our dire predictions for them at the moment and that we will all be very pleasantly surprised! I'd be lying if I said I am remotely thrilled by either signing and have repeatedly joined in the chorus of 'no thanks' when either has been mentioned previously, but maybe they are not as quite as bad as is being portrayed by many of us...
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With regard to the Spurs fans that are "putting up the bunting" because we bought Hutton, I'd suggest it would be similar to someone signing Beye from us. He has hardly played for them after arriving for a big fee (beye big wages) and is seen as a drain on the club's money.
When playing regularly Beye was player of the season at Newcastle and Hutton was being chased by Ferguson and ultimately earned a 9m (NINE!!) transfer fee for a right back, and this was before Liverpool went bonkers and decided full backs cost 17m.
JJ is on loan and will add something, worst case experienced back up, and will help the likes of Delph develop. At the end of his loan he can go back and we'll sign a long term replacement for Petrov.
Of the players that have moved its only probably Dann and maybe Palacious who have moved to perceived smaller clubs who I think could have done a job for us.
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After sleeping on it...
Jenas is a decent signing on loan. He'll provide some legs in the middle & he's played over 250 top flight games.
He's a very athletic midfielder who can be the box to box type player in the middle who can hopefully drive play forward.
He'll offer more than NRC going forward, he's a better passer & has a better touch.
For a season loan I can't see it being a bad signing, if he has a good season then he's a free agent next summer so this could be a very good deal for us.
I've always liked Hutton, he'll provide good support coming forward & he's tall, so will give us more height from corners etc.
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OK signings. Both from a team which has managed to combine mobility and possession. I would rather see Jenas than Petrov take a shot.
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Neither would have been anywhere near the top of my list but there's a logic to both of them.
I can't see any logic at all in getting rid of Makoun and bringing in Jenas to replace him.
You don't see any logic in bringing in an experienced PL player to replace one who has yet to settle and who only 8 days ago failed to impose himself against Hereford? In an ideal world we'd have kept him and given him another few mo this to find his feet but it's not an ideal world and we've got Bannan, Delph and Ireland to settle in so it's nice to have one who is ready now.
Makoun I'm actually glad to see the back of, as I didn't think he was very good at all. But ignoring him, is Jenas an upgrade on Reo-Coker? I would argue not.
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Think we've all got to get used to the fact that under O'neill it was as good as it gets for Villa.I think in comparison to the other Premiership clubs we've got the 7th best squad in the division.Stoke and Sunderland are catching us up but i'd still expect to see us finish ahead of them.Everton may have been weakened in the window, but they've still got Moyes working his magic so i'd expect them to be in and around us.
As for Jenas,he's one of those players that neutral fans never seem to rate.Bit like Downing I suppose in that respect.However, he has Premiership experience,won over 20 caps and is only on loan so whilst i'm not going to be breakdancing at the signing I can't really see too much wrong with it.Hutton, i'm happy with.Yes i'd have liked to have seen others brought in but I think we've got to accept that we're no longer trying to sit at the top table,more like we're trying to stay where we are.
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
What is it with people today? Why do signings have to be "inspiring"?
The important thing is will they add something to the squad and both will.
It'll be a long season for you if you approach everything with an air of feeling sorry for yourself. I'm looking forward to see how both do, how Bannan, Delph Clarke, Herd and Albrighton develop, if Gabby can continue to impress, if Bent can keep up his scoring record, how N'Zogbia performs, if the defence can continue to look so solid and to seeing a bloke called Edna in a Villa shirt.
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It's not so much the players we have bought as the ones we haven't.
I've a feeling we are going to find ourselves panic buying in January as a result.
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
With respect to you UsualSuspect, you along with a lot of others seem to have already made your minds up that everything will definately be dull and uninspiring. Admittedly Saturday was just that but with the exception of the top 5 or 6 clubs I dont see much to be overly worried about and once AM finds his best formation then I think we'll be ok. I also think back to Ron Saunders who used to say that you had to 'earn the right to play football', ie to be solid and disciplined first. This is the road I think AM is going down
AM has not got a fucking clue tactically
Nzogbia is not a right winger
Barry bannan is not a right winger
Heskey is not a link up player
heskey could not be a centre half
Saturday was turgid for the most part, dull unispiring and leaderless on the pitch.
I never wanted AM not because of the Blues connection because he took them down twice and plays football (I use the term very loosely) that should have a health warning attached to it
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
What is it with people today? Why do signings have to be "inspiring"?
The important thing is will they add something to the squad and both will.
It'll be a long season for you if you approach everything with an air of feeling sorry for yourself. I'm looking forward to see how both do, how Bannan, Delph Clarke, Herd and Albrighton develop, if Gabby can continue to impress, if Bent can keep up his scoring record, how N'Zogbia performs, if the defence can continue to look so solid and to seeing a bloke called Edna in a Villa shirt.
You need to wake up and smell the coffee.
IF gabby does this
IF Bannan does that
IF Bent is given one goal scoring opportunity every other game
IF Delph does okay
IF Petrov doesn't breath out of his arse after an hour
Far too many if's there.
I must have dreamt that AM isn't noted for his horrible defensive football
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Does not feel good being on the other end of Spurs dead wood clearance.
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
What is it with people today? Why do signings have to be "inspiring"?
The important thing is will they add something to the squad and both will.
It'll be a long season for you if you approach everything with an air of feeling sorry for yourself. I'm looking forward to see how both do, how Bannan, Delph Clarke, Herd and Albrighton develop, if Gabby can continue to impress, if Bent can keep up his scoring record, how N'Zogbia performs, if the defence can continue to look so solid and to seeing a bloke called Edna in a Villa shirt.
You need to wake up and smell the coffee.
IF gabby does this
IF Bannan does that
IF Bent is given one goal scoring opportunity every other game
IF Delph does okay
IF Petrov doesn't breath out of his arse after an hour
Far too many if's there.
I must have dreamt that AM isn't noted for his horrible defensive football
At least there are no ifs about you being in a positive mood ;)
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There was an item on news this morning about the blight of fly tipping. THis is exactly what Levi has done and Faulkner has opened wide to take the rubbish.
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These are 'wait and see' signings. We are having a 'wait and see' season.
Which is OK until you have a couple of heavy defeats.
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There was an item on news this morning about the blight of fly tipping. THis is exactly what Levi has done and Faulkner has opened wide to take the rubbish.
I think that's a bit harsh. Hutton's not a bad player, and Jenas has something about him if you look hard enough, but overall the squad is just getting weaker and weaker, and the signings yesterday were little more than shoddy patching up jobs.
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Never been a massive fan of jenas and never saw what the fuss was about when he was at Newcastle. But he's a better player than NRC who if have kept, if a different type of player. Think he provides competition for the midfield 2 or to play in a 3, not to play the heskey role. Given the circumstances mcleish faced, I'd give him a 7 for his transfer work. Good signings. Hutton was playing champions league last year.
He is not better than NRC
Yes he is.
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
With respect to you UsualSuspect, you along with a lot of others seem to have already made your minds up that everything will definately be dull and uninspiring. Admittedly Saturday was just that but with the exception of the top 5 or 6 clubs I dont see much to be overly worried about and once AM finds his best formation then I think we'll be ok. I also think back to Ron Saunders who used to say that you had to 'earn the right to play football', ie to be solid and disciplined first. This is the road I think AM is going down
AM has not got a fucking clue tactically
Nzogbia is not a right winger
Barry bannan is not a right winger
Heskey is not a link up player
heskey could not be a centre half
Saturday was turgid for the most part, dull unispiring and leaderless on the pitch.
I never wanted AM not because of the Blues connection because he took them down twice and plays football (I use the term very loosely) that should have a health warning attached to it
But N'Zogbia has frequently played right wing for Wigan and Newcastle. And has Bannan played right wing for us at all? And although not a big fan, Heskey has performed rather well for us in that role so far (although I do think we should play Bannan or Ireland there). And as for Heskey playing center back, do you really think that's likely? Honestly?
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, is Jenas an upgrade on Reo-Coker? I would argue not.
You keep saying it so it must be true.
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Sums AM perfectly
Dull & Uninspiring
A very long season ahead
What is it with people today? Why do signings have to be "inspiring"?
The important thing is will they add something to the squad and both will.
It'll be a long season for you if you approach everything with an air of feeling sorry for yourself. I'm looking forward to see how both do, how Bannan, Delph Clarke, Herd and Albrighton develop, if Gabby can continue to impress, if Bent can keep up his scoring record, how N'Zogbia performs, if the defence can continue to look so solid and to seeing a bloke called Edna in a Villa shirt.
You need to wake up and smell the coffee.
IF gabby does this
IF Bannan does that
IF Bent is given one goal scoring opportunity every other game
IF Delph does okay
IF Petrov doesn't breath out of his arse after an hour
Far too many if's there.
I must have dreamt that AM isn't noted for his horrible defensive football
Anyone who uses the line about smelling the coffee should be summarily executed.
We're not going to agree so let's leave it there and you carry on feeling sorry for yourself and I'll carry on enjoying the season.
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Personally I think Hutton's a great signing, and that Jenas has potential to do the job that so desperately needs doing in midfield for us.
Quit yer' whining.
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AM has not got a fucking clue tactically
Nzogbia is not a right winger
That guy who wrote a summary of Nzogbia's ability said it was his best position. It's where he regularly played for Wigan and recently for France. Where is his best position and what have you based your opinion on?
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I think that under the financial constraints he appears to be under McLeish has done very well.
Not as exciting as signings of previous years admittedly but that's not on at the moment it seems.
So well done Mr McLeish and up the Villa!
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I remember feeling pissed off when Spurs signed Hutton for a gazillion pounds, and he refused to countenance coming to Villa. I do hope he has got over that.
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My son-in-law is a keen Spurs fan. He thinks Jenas is a fine player who works his socks off for the team. He could be very good for us.
I am concerned that there is no buy clause but if that weren't a possibility then so be it.
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, is Jenas an upgrade on Reo-Coker? I would argue not.
You keep saying it so it must be true.
Eh?! First time I've mentioned it!
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Hutton:-
I think this may turn out to be a very shrewd signing. He was a £9m fullback not too long ago, under our present manager, but didn't get a proper look in at Spurs. No shame in that when you look at Kyle Walker - and wasn't he supposedly behind Hutton in the RB pecking order when we took him on loan. With a manager who knows how to organise a defence he'll improve that side of his game, plus give us more going forward than Young did. Happy with the signing.
Jenas:-
Not so haopopy as I really don't rate him all that highly. However, if we're looking for a stop gap player while we get our finances in order, then there are worse out there. I'll be pissed off if he takes Delph's place, but as an extra body in that depleted midfield, we should give him a chance and see what he can give us. And as a year long loan it's low risk.
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I think they're both decent signings, given our circumstances, to be fair. Not exactly exciting or imaginative, but I see Hutton as a step up from Luke Young, who seemed susceptible to injuries over the last two years. Hutton will give us more going forward, he's pretty solid and quick. He actually had a good season with Spurs last season and, at 26, means we'll still have a sellable asset on our hands in a few years' time.
I confess to always rating Jenas, though he's lost his way in recent years. He's been marginalised at Spurs in the last couple of seasons and hasn't lived up to the potential he showed as a really young player but given a run of games I think he'll surprise a lot of people. He's got a lot about him.
What I will say is that, compared to last season, I think our midfield options overall are weaker.
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IF gabby does this
IF Bannan does that
IF Bent is given one goal scoring opportunity every other game
IF Delph does okay
IF Petrov doesn't breath out of his arse after an hour
Slightly profound statement here but isn't it the "IFs" that make football interesting. If we knew what we were getting then it would just be boring, you'd know the result before the game kick off. It's why I have never really envied Man United fans, most of their games are a walk in the park and it's only when they face Barca that they get to appreciate the subtleties and anxieties that most other fans enjoy (and detest).
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There was an item on news this morning about the blight of fly tipping. THis is exactly what Levi has done and Faulkner has opened wide to take the rubbish.
I think that's a bit harsh. Hutton's not a bad player, and Jenas has something about him if you look hard enough, but overall the squad is just getting weaker and weaker, and the signings yesterday were little more than shoddy patching up jobs.
As it stands, you may be right.
But things change very quickly. If you wind back 12 months, Downing was a good player who'd had an admittedly distrupted but ultimately underwhelming year with us, Henderson was just a promising but unstested rookie (still is), and Carrol had done well in the championship but was unproven at the top level.
Now? £75m and everyone's wetting themselves over them.
McLeish managed to scrape Carr, Bowyer and Ferguson out of the barrell at the rags, all players at the end of the shelf life, and make them halfway decent premier league players again when everyone to a man would have said they we're busted flushes.
It will be interesting to see what he can do with the two he's signed here who are of a much higher calibre. And for me the signs are good so far in that Gabby and Dunne in particular look much more like themselves.
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IF gabby does this
IF Bannan does that
IF Bent is given one goal scoring opportunity every other game
IF Delph does okay
IF Petrov doesn't breath out of his arse after an hour
Slightly profound statement here but isn't it the "IFs" that make football interesting. If we knew what we were getting then it would just be boring, you'd know the result before the game kick off. It's why I have never really envied Man United fans, most of their games are a walk in the park and it's only when they face Barca that they get to appreciate the subtleties and anxieties that most other fans enjoy (and detest).
I'd say that applied more to Chelsea. At least old whiskey face rips it up every few years and changes things around. I'd imagine it would be quite enjoyable being a scummy red at the moment, watching a very promising but unproven group of young players tearing new arseholes in all and sundry.
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Previously my biggest gripe with Jenas was that MON seemed prepared to spend around 9m on him. Whilst I am sure the loan is not free, at least this way we get him cheaply for one season (helping Delph develop and an alternative to Petrov) and we can see whether he is the player we want before we cough up that sort of money.
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Hutton:-
I think this may turn out to be a very shrewd signing. He was a £9m fullback not too long ago, under our present manager, but didn't get a proper look in at Spurs. No shame in that when you look at Kyle Walker - and wasn't he supposedly behind Hutton in the RB pecking order when we took him on loan. With a manager who knows how to organise a defence he'll improve that side of his game, plus give us more going forward than Young did. Happy with the signing.
So maybe if we turn Hutton around we can have Walker back again? Just kidding. I'm not too distraught. If I'm honest I didn't expect anyone else in until we sold Young. Then Hutton made sense. But Jenas is a useful player, I get the impression he is a very consistent contributor which you can't say about any of our MF at the moment. If Bannan is about a year off being ready to start every week which I think he is, then it could work out perfectly.
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There was an item on news this morning about the blight of fly tipping. THis is exactly what Levi has done and Faulkner has opened wide to take the rubbish.
I think that's a bit harsh. Hutton's not a bad player, and Jenas has something about him if you look hard enough, but overall the squad is just getting weaker and weaker, and the signings yesterday were little more than shoddy patching up jobs.
As it stands, you may be right.
But things change very quickly. If you wind back 12 months, Downing was a good player who'd had an admittedly distrupted but ultimately underwhelming year with us, Henderson was just a promising but unstested rookie (still is), and Carrol had done well in the championship but was unproven at the top level.
Now? £75m and everyone's wetting themselves over them.
McLeish managed to scrape Carr, Bowyer and Ferguson out of the barrell at the rags, all players at the end of the shelf life, and make them halfway decent premier league players again when everyone to a man would have said they we're busted flushes.
It will be interesting to see what he can do with the two he's signed here who are of a much higher calibre. And for me the signs are good so far in that Gabby and Dunne in particular look much more like themselves.
Top post!
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With regards to Hutton...just thank ourselves lucky he decided to come to Villa rather than Fulham and we didnt have to resort to Danny fuckin Simpson!
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I'm OK with Hutton.
For Jenas I have three questions:
1) Why didn't we keep Nige?
2) Why didn't we sign Bradley?
3) Why didn't we not loan out Jean Deux?
4) Why can't we scout and get someone from abroad who could possible be something other than average?
Anthony Annan went on loan to Vitesse, why didn't we go for him?!
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1. he was offered a contract and declined
2. he was shite
3. he is on loan
4. even foreigners cost money
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I have no issue with the signing of Hutton, he is in effect a younger model of Luke Young.
Jenas though I just don't understand what he can offer us. His passing is worse than Makoun's, goal threat is worse than Ireland's, ability to hold the ball is is worse than Petrov's and has less energy than Delph.
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I think Jenas will do well. He has a point to prove.
An MON type signing.... oh sh1t!
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Our new back four now consists of:
Scottish Right Back - Hutton - £4m
Welsh Centre Half - Collins - £5m
Irish Centre Half - Dunne - £6m
English Left Back - Warnock - £6m
All Internationals for their respective countries at one time or another. I am pleased at this back four shape with Shay Given in behind them.
The team for Everton may look like this:
Given
Hutton Dunne Collins Warnock
Delph Ireland Bannan
Nzogbia Bent Gabby
Bench:
Guzan
Beye
Cuellar
Petrov
Albrighton
Heskey
:D
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These are 'wait and see' signings. We are having a 'wait and see' season.
Which is OK until you have a couple of heavy defeats.
As I stated earlier, I see it as a 'hoped to be proved wrong' season.
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There was an item on news this morning about the blight of fly tipping. THis is exactly what Levi has done and Faulkner has opened wide to take the rubbish.
I think that's a bit harsh. Hutton's not a bad player, and Jenas has something about him if you look hard enough, but overall the squad is just getting weaker and weaker, and the signings yesterday were little more than shoddy patching up jobs.
As it stands, you may be right.
But things change very quickly. If you wind back 12 months, Downing was a good player who'd had an admittedly distrupted but ultimately underwhelming year with us, Henderson was just a promising but unstested rookie (still is), and Carrol had done well in the championship but was unproven at the top level.
Now? £75m and everyone's wetting themselves over them.
McLeish managed to scrape Carr, Bowyer and Ferguson out of the barrell at the rags, all players at the end of the shelf life, and make them halfway decent premier league players again when everyone to a man would have said they we're busted flushes.
It will be interesting to see what he can do with the two he's signed here who are of a much higher calibre. And for me the signs are good so far in that Gabby and Dunne in particular look much more like themselves.
To be fair to Petrov and Im not his biggest fan , he has looked better
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remy, I wouldn't play Bannan, Delph and Ireland. We need a midfieler who can win the ball back and tackle without trying to get sent off. Petrov should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
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Our new back four now consists of:
Scottish Right Back - Hutton - £4m
Welsh Centre Half - Collins - £5m
Irish Centre Half - Dunne - £6m
English Left Back - Warnock - £6m
All Internationals for their respective countries at one time or another. I am pleased at this back four shape with Shay Given in behind them.
The team for Everton may look like this:
Given
Hutton Dunne Collins Warnock
Delph Ireland Bannan
Nzogbia Bent Gabby
Bench:
Guzan
Beye
Cuellar
Petrov
Albrighton
Heskey
:D
You dont fancy playing Jenas then ? Is he injured ?
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For all the gnashing of teeth and chucking of toys out of prams, the bottom line is that we are not going down and are no better or worse than the rest of the dross teams around us. Our two new signings are cheaper and equal ability replacements for players who were on ridiculous wages, negotiated by our previously manager.
My only real complaint is the way we have conducted ourselves this summer and the decisions that have been made, but maybe it is because the relationship and goodwill between us the fans and the board was so good for so long, that the reality hit home harder.
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Cant really understand the hate for Jenas tbh. He's a good player who lost his way a bit. We desperately needed a box to box midfielder and if he regains some form he'll chip in with some goals too. Something that none of our midfielders do currently.
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Cant really understand the hate for Jenas tbh. He's a good player who lost his way a bit. We desperately needed a box to box midfielder and if he regains some form he'll chip in with some goals too. Something that none of our midfielders do currently.
Our midfield just looks average. Two years ago, Petrov was the weak link of our midfield now he's the most important one we have. To think we had Young, Milner, Barry, Downing at the club at one time. Delph and Bannan need to mature quickly and start fulfilling their potential.
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I have no issue with the signing of Hutton, he is in effect a younger model of Luke Young.
Jenas though I just don't understand what he can offer us. His passing is worse than Makoun's, goal threat is worse than Ireland's, ability to hold the ball is is worse than Petrov's and has less energy than Delph.
It doesn't quite work like that though, otherwise the following would be an equally logical statement.
"Jenas is going to be amazing for us, his passing is better than NRC, he's more mentally stable than Ireland, got way more energy than Petrov and has bags of experience in the premiership compared to Delph."
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I'm quite pleased. I think Hutton is an improvement on Young and I think Jenas is an improvement on Makoun so in that respect it's job done. The whys and wherefores and rights and wrongs of the scaling back of the ambition our board once showed have been debated endlessly on this site but for where we are I think that's not a bad day's work
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remy, I wouldn't play Bannan, Delph and Ireland. We need a midfieler who can win the ball back and tackle without trying to get sent off. Petrov should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
One goal conceded in four games suggest that isn't our most pressing concern.
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Cant really understand the hate for Jenas tbh. He's a good player who lost his way a bit. We desperately needed a box to box midfielder and if he regains some form he'll chip in with some goals too. Something that none of our midfielders do currently.
Our midfield just looks average. Two years ago, Petrov was the weak link of our midfield now he's the most important one we have. To think we had Young, Milner, Barry, Downing at the club at one time. Delph and Bannan need to mature quickly and start fulfilling their potential.
And Jenas probably would have got in the side then too. He's played in top 6 teams his whole career.
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remy, I wouldn't play Bannan, Delph and Ireland. We need a midfieler who can win the ball back and tackle without trying to get sent off. Petrov should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
One goal conceded in four games suggest that isn't our most pressing concern.
We need to create more, I think everybody would agree with that. That's why Bannan or Ireland needs to be in the team in place of Heskey. Playing both together, alongside Delph, would be a mistake. That was my point.
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I have no issue with the signing of Hutton, he is in effect a younger model of Luke Young.
Jenas though I just don't understand what he can offer us. His passing is worse than Makoun's, goal threat is worse than Ireland's, ability to hold the ball is is worse than Petrov's and has less energy than Delph.
It doesn't quite work like that though, otherwise the following would be an equally logical statement.
"Jenas is going to be amazing for us, his passing is better than NRC, he's more mentally stable than Ireland, got way more energy than Petrov and has bags of experience in the premiership compared to Delph."
It does in the context of me not knowing what it is he can offer us.
Play him instead of Delph, we lose some of that energy and passing. Instead of Petrov we lose the holding of the ball that he gives us. etc
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remy, I wouldn't play Bannan, Delph and Ireland. We need a midfieler who can win the ball back and tackle without trying to get sent off. Petrov should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
One goal conceded in four games suggest that isn't our most pressing concern.
We need to create more, I think everybody would agree with that. That's why Bannan or Ireland needs to be in the team in place of Heskey. Playing both together, alongside Delph, would be a mistake. That was my point.
Whilst we didn't exactly create an abundance of chances against Wolves I thought we had more than enough chances to have won the game.Petrov and N'Zogbia in particular were guilty of not being able to hit the target from 18 yards.Also I think we're still to see N'Zogbia anywhere near full fitness yet.Apart from a couple of decent dribbles on Saturday he's made a quiet start for the club.I'm sure he'll come good and when he does we'll have a lot more creativity.
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I have no issue with the signing of Hutton, he is in effect a younger model of Luke Young.
Jenas though I just don't understand what he can offer us. His passing is worse than Makoun's, goal threat is worse than Ireland's, ability to hold the ball is is worse than Petrov's and has less energy than Delph.
It doesn't quite work like that though, otherwise the following would be an equally logical statement.
"Jenas is going to be amazing for us, his passing is better than NRC, he's more mentally stable than Ireland, got way more energy than Petrov and has bags of experience in the premiership compared to Delph."
It does in the context of me not knowing what it is he can offer us.
Play him instead of Delph, we lose some of that energy and passing. Instead of Petrov we lose the holding of the ball that he gives us. etc
But maybe play him alongside Petrov and Delph, and we add drive, energy, box-to-boxiness, extra height and creativity?
I think we'll line up like this;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
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Did Nzogbia get called up for France?
I kind of hope not as this international break would be ideal for him to have a mini pre-season.
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But maybe play him alongside Petrov and Delph, and we add drive, energy, box-to-boxiness, extra height and creativity?
I think we'll line up like this;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
That's a strong possibility.
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I have no issue with the signing of Hutton, he is in effect a younger model of Luke Young.
Jenas though I just don't understand what he can offer us. His passing is worse than Makoun's, goal threat is worse than Ireland's, ability to hold the ball is is worse than Petrov's and has less energy than Delph.
It doesn't quite work like that though, otherwise the following would be an equally logical statement.
"Jenas is going to be amazing for us, his passing is better than NRC, he's more mentally stable than Ireland, got way more energy than Petrov and has bags of experience in the premiership compared to Delph."
It does in the context of me not knowing what it is he can offer us.
Play him instead of Delph, we lose some of that energy and passing. Instead of Petrov we lose the holding of the ball that he gives us. etc
But maybe play him alongside Petrov and Delph, and we add drive, energy, box-to-boxiness, extra height and creativity?
I think we'll line up like this;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
Other than the height issue, I'd say Bannan would be a better choice for the creativity and drive.
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But maybe play him alongside Petrov and Delph, and we add drive, energy, box-to-boxiness, extra height and creativity?
I think we'll line up like this;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
That's a strong possibility.
Looks good too and can easily change into a 442 with gabby up top and Delph LM and Nzog RM.
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Other than the height issue, I'd say Bannan would be a better choice for the creativity and drive.
Long term I agree but don't think he's ready to do it every game and I don't think it fair to expect it.
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Other than the height issue, I'd say Bannan would be a better choice for the creativity and drive.
Long term I agree but don't think he's ready to do it every game and I don't think it fair to expect it.
I think alongside Jenas and Petrov in the middle three could be the answer.
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Other than the height issue, I'd say Bannan would be a better choice for the creativity and drive.
Long term I agree but don't think he's ready to do it every game and I don't think it fair to expect it.
I agree to an extent, but as a percentage I'd rather see Bannan start 75% of the games compared to Jenas.
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They are good players, glad we got Hutton, he'll prove a lot of the doubters wrong.
It's a pity we didn't get Jenas on a proper transfer, himself and Delph in midfield would work well, drop Sweatrov to the bench and bring in Albrighton on the wing, get Heskey on the bench. Play Gabby up with Bent or Ireland behind him and we are starting to look like a team that will cause a few problems. If Jenas has a stormer season, old melted wheely bin face is going to take him back and try flog us another of his midfield duds, or we'll be charged a fortune.
......................Given...............................
Hutton....Collins.......Dunne.......Warnock
Albrighton.....Jenas......Delph.....N'Zogbia
................Bent.......Gabby/Ireland(playing behind)...
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McLeish managed to scrape Carr, Bowyer and Ferguson out of the barrell at the rags, all players at the end of the shelf life, and make them halfway decent premier league players again when everyone to a man would have said they we're busted flushes.
The thing I liked about the McLeish signing was that I hoped he would get the best out of our experienced but demotivated older players, which to be fair, so far so good. Allied to this, I imagined that given a bigger budget than he'd get from that lot we'd get a few imaginative signings to garner a bit of interest. These pair really are really a bit meat & two veg, not at all bad, just dull.
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I'm not a massive fan of Jenas but I could imagine him playing instead of Petrov for instance.
He's far more mobile and has better stamina.
So I could see the benefit of playing Delph and Jenas with one of Ireland or Bannan ahead of them.
I dont think he'll start games that way and can see Petrov, Delph and Jenas lining up in midfield more often than not, which wouldn't be terrible at all. But I'd like to get one of our more attack minded midfielders involved from the start. At the moment, Bannan.
We've made some decent signings this summer but not much more than that.
I initially disagreed with my brother when he suggested Randy might be gearing the club for sale but now I'm seriously considering the possibilty and for the first time in 5 years the thought doesn't bother me much. As long as he chose a worthy successor. Still, lets not get ahead of ourselves.
I actually thought we were about to sign a world class full back but it was just Hutton dressed as Lahm :)
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Jenas isn't completely crap in the air, and Hutton adds some extra height too, hopefully that means that Heskey doesn't get played. In a flat midfield 3, Delph would have more licence to be box-to-box rather then just sit like he has been and he has shown an ability to play some cracking passes so far in my opinion. Jenas is also a pretty reasonable creator and is a better midfield goal threat than Petrov. I think we have definitely increased our tactical options to supply service to Bent without damaging our encouraging solidness so far.
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I actually thought we were about to sign a world class full back but it was just Hutton dressed as Lahm :)
Don't turn into Brice Jovial please Mazrim, he's dropped that bad pun in every second thread so far... (sigh)
:P
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In response to McLeish comments, I think we have a very good manager who is working under considerabloe constraints and I hope fans back him this season.
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In response to McLeish comments, I think we have a very good manager who is working under considerabloe constraints and I hope fans back him this season.
Agreed.
His first job was obviously to make us tighter at the back & harder to beat. Early signs are he's improving this already.
As v Wolves we had plenty of possession coming forward & created chances.
Once the front 3 work out each others style & movement I'm confident Bent will score plenty of goals this season.
He's getting the best out of Petrov as he's less exposed due to us playing with less width.
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I think we'll line up like this;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
Which doesn't actually look that bad, although I'd really just like to see:
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Bannan Petrov N'Zogbia
Bent Agbonlahor
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I'm happy with Jenas, at 28 he has 21 England caps, Parker at 31 has 6.
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I think we'll line up like this;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
Which doesn't actually look that bad, although I'd really just like to see:
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Bannan Petrov N'Zogbia
Bent Agbonlahor
I think that team would be overrun through the middle too often and I wouldn't drop Delph for anybody at the moment.
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Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Bannan Petrov N'Zogbia
Bent Agbonlahor
I'd say that central midfield is too weak in a 4-4-2.
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I think we'll line up like this;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
Which doesn't actually look that bad, although I'd really just like to see:
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Bannan Petrov N'Zogbia
Bent Agbonlahor
I think that team would be overrun through the middle too often and I wouldn't drop Delph for anybody at the moment.
Really? We haven't been overrun with just Petrov and Delph, so adding Jenas simply adds to its solidity in my view.
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I'm happy with Jenas, at 28 he has 21 England caps, Parker at 31 has 6.
That makes Parker better in my view.
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I think Jenas could turn out to be a good aquisition, there is talent there and he has been a good player, just needs regular football and pitchtime and I think the confidence will come back
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I'm not going to comment on Hutton, as I think most are fairly happy with him as replacement for Luke Young, as am I.
Regarding Jenas though I think people are being a tad harsh. Granted he's not a world class midfielder, but he is a good all-rounder, with very good energy levels. I think he'll be pretty good for us. In fact I think he enables us to do several thigns with our formation. I think Heskey has been doing a job in the attacking midfielder role, generally dropping off and making a nuisance of himself to help Petrov and Delph out. For me Jenas' energy can take the place of this and help cover the back four better. We can now push Delph a bit further forwards into the attacking midfield role, with Petrov and Jenas sitting. This alignment could also bring the likes of Ireland and Bannan into the fray for starting roles. I think McLeish felt they were too lightweight given the rest of our midfield make-up, hence the playing of Heskey. Jenas also has the ability to play box to box a bit like NRC, but maybe with a bit more goal threat and quality in the final third of the pitch.
So in summary, Hutton gets a thumbs up and Jenas (while not earth shattering) may allow us to bring other more attacking midfielders into play, possible making us more creative and maybe even chipping in with a few goals himself. I'm pretty happy with this and it seems McLeish is making a good fist of extracting the most from his resources. I'll be quite interested to see what he does next summer...
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It's a pity we didn't get Jenas on a proper transfer..... If Jenas has a stormer season, old melted wheely bin face is going to take him back and try flog us another of his midfield duds, or we'll be charged a fortune.
Isn't he in the last year of contract?
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I think we'll line up like this;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
Which doesn't actually look that bad, although I'd really just like to see:
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Bannan Petrov N'Zogbia
Bent Agbonlahor
I think that team would be overrun through the middle too often and I wouldn't drop Delph for anybody at the moment.
Really? We haven't been overrun with just Petrov and Delph, so adding Jenas simply adds to its solidity in my view.
I dont think we've been playing a 4-4-2 with Petrov and Delph in the middle though and Risso has Bannan instead of Delph which greatly weakens it defensively. I agree that adding Jenas adds solidity and I have him starting with Delph and Bannan in my preferred starting line up.
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Why would you play Albrighton? he really needs to play reserve football and get some confidence back.
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Why would you play Albrighton? he really needs to play reserve football and get some confidence back.
Because I think having Heskey in the team offers us precisely nothing up front, as we've seen by failing to score against two of the three teams we've played so far.
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Why would you play Albrighton? he really needs to play reserve football and get some confidence back.
Because I think having Heskey in the team offers us precisely nothing up front, as we've seen by failing to score against two of the three teams we've played so far.
To an extent i'd agree with that, but i wouldn't blame it on Heskey.We've played far too narow.Personally i'd like to see N'Zogbia wide left getting behind fullbacks and cutting crosses back into the box.We aren't getting the best out of Bent as we're not hitting the penalty area quick enough from wide areas.
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Regarding Jenas though I think people are being a tad harsh. Granted he's not a world class midfielder, but he is a good all-rounder, with very good energy levels. I think he'll be pretty good for us. In fact I think he enables us to do several thigns with our formation. I think Heskey has been doing a job in the attacking midfielder role, generally dropping off and making a nuisance of himself to help Petrov and Delph out. For me Jenas' energy can take the place of this and help cover the back four better. We can now push Delph a bit further forwards into the attacking midfield role, with Petrov and Jenas sitting. This alignment could also bring the likes of Ireland and Bannan into the fray for starting roles. I think McLeish felt they were too lightweight given the rest of our midfield make-up, hence the playing of Heskey. Jenas also has the ability to play box to box a bit like NRC, but maybe with a bit more goal threat and quality in the final third of the pitch.
So in summary, Hutton gets a thumbs up and Jenas (while not earth shattering) may allow us to bring other more attacking midfielders into play, possible making us more creative and maybe even chipping in with a few goals himself. I'm pretty happy with this and it seems McLeish is making a good fist of extracting the most from his resources. I'll be quite interested to see what he does next summer...
Nicely put. Jenas wouldn’t be anyone’s first choice signing but given our limited resources he’s a solid player who can for fill a number of roles in midfield and I think he will surprise a few.
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Albrighton is either on the longest run of poor form I've ever known or he isn't that good. Either way, he shouldn't be near the first XI at the moment.
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Jenas is a useful squad player no more, but Hutton is an international who should slot in at right back with no problems!
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It's a pity we didn't get Jenas on a proper transfer..... If Jenas has a stormer season, old melted wheely bin face is going to take him back and try flog us another of his midfield duds, or we'll be charged a fortune.
Isn't he in the last year of contract?
Looks like it runs out in 2013 so by next summer I doubt they would be asking silly money.
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Jenas is an international too, and for England not Scotland. Jenas would be in the team ahead of Heskey for me. Albrighton would be no where near it at the moment I'm afraid, if Gabby loses his form out wide, Bannan and not Marc steps in for me.
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I just hope they give Jenas's missus Ellie Penfold the empty seat behind me - I could do with a couple of cushions.
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Yes she's looking hot since leaving Dangermouse.
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As far as I could make out, the best to hope for for this season was
1) avoid a relegation fight
2) shed a lot of unwanted fat
3) give emerging reserves/youth teamers opportunity to state their case
4) go into next summer in a position to buy players who will move us closer to competing for something worth having.
Hutton may well help with the first, Jenas possibly. I can't see what impact they will have on 2-4 other than a negative one.
I'm more enthused about seeing what qualities the Irish lad has. It's the only signing that makes sense to me.
The saving grace with Jenas is that it is only a loan deal.
I'm trying to think of the last time we bought someone else's big money flop and got the better of the deal.
Alex Cropley ?
I thought we had Milner on loan to start with.
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Why would you play Albrighton? he really needs to play reserve football and get some confidence back.
Because I think having Heskey in the team offers us precisely nothing up front, as we've seen by failing to score against two of the three teams we've played so far.
To an extent i'd agree with that, but i wouldn't blame it on Heskey.We've played far too narow.Personally i'd like to see N'Zogbia wide left getting behind fullbacks and cutting crosses back into the box.We aren't getting the best out of Bent as we're not hitting the penalty area quick enough from wide areas.
Agree 100% with that
to narrow and not enough pace to the game. gabby looked dangerous on saturday when he got behind the fullback but this only happened a couple of times
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Is it right that Jeanus is in the last year of his contract at Spurs?
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He is contracted until 2013.
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Is it right that Jeanus is in the last year of his contract at Spurs?
No.
Jenas & Dawson had 1 year extensions taken out by Spurs in the summer.
2013.
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Is it right that Jeanus is in the last year of his contract at Spurs?
No.
Jenas & Dawson had 1 year extensions taken out by Spurs in the summer.
2013.
Why extend it and then loan him out? Seems odd to me!
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The team for Everton may look like this:
Given
Hutton Dunne Collins Warnock
Delph Ireland Bannan
Nzogbia Bent Gabby
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Complete and utter shite
If that team starts I'll give you £100.00
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Is it right that Jeanus is in the last year of his contract at Spurs?
No.
Jenas & Dawson had 1 year extensions taken out by Spurs in the summer.
2013.
Why extend it and then loan him out? Seems odd to me!
Wiki says he signed his extension to 2013 in 2008.
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I liked this comment about Alan Hutton....
His surging runs down the right wing for his country has gained him the nickname "The Scottish Cafu" amongst the Tartan Army.
I'm impressed with this signing - a decent all round right back, I think he'll do better for us than Kyle Walker who lets face it was good going forward but defensively was toilet.
Jenas is not getting much love on here but he's got ability just depends on his attitude.
Marks out of 10 I'd give Alex an 8 for his signings so far - just wonder who will be his Marlon Harewood/Habib Beye, the noose which all the phone in moaners will hang him with?
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Jenas must have something about him to get a 1yr extension. Think he might suprise a few people. He is a box to box player and can score goals which will allow Mcleish to change formations and get the ball forward to Bent. He has champions league experience and was an England international. This season will allow Delph , Bannan and Gardner to cut the mustard ...........
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I liked this comment about Alan Hutton....
His surging runs down the right wing for his country has gained him the nickname "The Scottish Cafu" amongst the Tartan Army.
I'm impressed with this signing - a decent all round right back, I think he'll do better for us than Kyle Walker who lets face it was good going forward but defensively was toilet.
Jenas is not getting much love on here but he's got ability just depends on his attitude.
Marks out of 10 I'd give Alex an 8 for his signings so far - just wonder who will be his Marlon Harewood/Habib Beye, the noose which all the phone in moaners will hang him with?
Both players, we can speculate all we want but the basics remain, Hutton is an International, he is half decent on form he should be Villa's first choice RB and better than other options, is he any better than Young, not sure about that but by all accounts he's decent going forward, Jenas another International, a few years back when in full flow for club and country most people would have jumped through hoops to get him, top teams as well.
Both players have fallen out of favour with there respective clubs, both need to get back in there and playing and as they say the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, fact is we will know almost instantly the second these players hit the ground if they are going to work, experienced pro's, experienced Premiership players, they should slot straight in if they are any good.
On the negative both these players have the capacity to go missing from day one, for me classic AM signings, so much so that had he still been in charge at the Noses and signed these 2 players i wouldn't be thinking, nice work Alex, I'd be thinking typical and right outfit for also rans, and unimpressed.
We wait and see.
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I know Hutton is an International and i think he'll be okay but he's an international for scotland. read same for collins. it's nothing to be proud of
Just looked at Huttons starts in the past 4 seasons and not impressive at all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Hutton
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Jenas must have something about him to get a 1yr extension.
I suspect it is also a lot to do with them protecting their investment, to be honest.
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THe response by some on here is ridiculous. Look at it this way, you could be an Everton fan today and staring at a real season of increasing doom and a worry if you have the cash in the club to compete in the league, let alone make a run for a European place.
As someone else put it more eloquently earlier, you have to earn the right to play in this league, and Jenas in midfield will do that. Some of the criticism is unwarranted, espeically as we haven't even seen him play yet! Some perspective please.
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Jenas has energy and knows when to get forward.
Against Fulham there were a fair few times when we were on the counter, and Bent would have the ball in the opposition box with little/no support.
Jenas is capable of getting beyond Bent, Ireland is the only midfield player who can do that in our squad at the minute (and for whatever reason isn't in contention).
Those are some positives.
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THe response by some on here is ridiculous. Look at it this way, you could be an Everton fan today and staring at a real season of increasing doom and a worry if you have the cash in the club to compete in the league, let alone make a run for a European place.
As someone else put it more eloquently earlier, you have to earn the right to play in this league, and Jenas in midfield will do that. Some of the criticism is unwarranted, espeically as we haven't even seen him play yet! Some perspective please.
Very good point. Arteta was a massive player for Everton and we now have more options than before this window especially when Nzogbia comes up to strength. Good time to play Everton where i can imagine is full of doom and gloom ...........
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THe response by some on here is ridiculous. Look at it this way, you could be an Everton fan today and staring at a real season of increasing doom and a worry if you have the cash in the club to compete in the league, let alone make a run for a European place.
As someone else put it more eloquently earlier, you have to earn the right to play in this league, and Jenas in midfield will do that. Some of the criticism is unwarranted, espeically as we haven't even seen him play yet! Some perspective please.
Whilst I agree with the general gist of what you're saying, "could be worse, look at Everton" isn't really much comfort is it, given the extent to which they're fucked.
I'll give Jenas a chance, but it's hardly as if people haven't seen him play before. They're bound to judge him on something. Just like managers do when they sign them.
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I reckon Mcleish will get the defence organized and if Gabby has a good goalscoring season alongside Bent and the manager gets the best out of players like N'Zogbia, Ireland, Jenas, Bannan and Albrighton we can have a good season. Problem is of course that there are too many 'if's' at the moment.
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I reckon Mcleish will get the defence organized and if Gabby has a good goalscoring season alongside Bent and the manager gets the best out of players like N'Zogbia, Ireland, Jenas, Bannan and Albrighton we can have a good season. Problem is of course that there are too many 'if's' at the moment.
Yes, there are ifs in there, but some aren't very big ifs. I think he'll get the defence organised and we've already seen sings of that. I think Gabby will have a good season a weigh in with a few goals. N'Zogbia I'd say 'expect' to do well. The rest are genuine ifs, but if he's gets a 50/50 result and two out of Ireland, Albrighton, Bannan and Jenas deliver, then we'll be a lot better than some think!
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To be honest, I'm feeling quite positive at present after the real recent low of the rumours of McLeish gradually becoming fact over a weekend in the summer. I think the defence looks better, we are less than a year away from getting rid of the absolute toxic waste of contracts remaining from MON's era, and I even think McLeish is starting to grow on me.
The only thing I would really like to see is Bannan starting instead of Heskey, because I'm really hoping that he's going to be the player we hope.
Also, I'm really, really looking forward to the U19's Champions League matches at Villa Park - I think they will be more entertaining and rewarding games than the first team's!
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Jenas is better than Petrov, and probably more appropriate for the Prem than Makoun.
For me , for us to play better , we have to replace Heskey, Petrov, and possibly Gabby.Jenas and Bannan/Ireland can come in for the 1st two.
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I’m pleased with these two signings.
I think Hutton is an upgrade on Luke and not just because of the age and wages, but because he’s also a better option going forward. If we end up being too narrorw, too often, as has been the case thus far, then he’ll provide some good width and decent supply.
The back five look very solid.
As for Jenas, I think the response has been baffling. Its been a case of who can gnash their teeth the most. He’s not a world class player, but he is a good one.
I’m pleased with all of McLeish’s business.
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Better than nowt is my view. Hutton is capable and Jenas has shown potential. How much they will contribute is to be seen. I think they will both prove to be reliable and useful additions and will add to our attacking options.
For me the important thing is neither are donkeys in my view and might not push us forward but don't take us backwards.
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I know Hutton is an International and i think he'll be okay but he's an international for scotland. read same for collins. it's nothing to be proud of
Playing for your country is not something to be proud of?
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I’m pleased with these two signings.
I think Hutton is an upgrade on Luke and not just because of the age and wages, but because he’s also a better option going forward. If we end up being too narrorw, too often, as has been the case thus far, then he’ll provide some good width and decent supply.
The back five look very solid.
As for Jenas, I think the response has been baffling. Its been a case of who can gnash their teeth the most. He’s not a world class player, but he is a good one.
I’m pleased with all of McLeish’s business.
Agreed. Jenas could turn out to be an excellent loan signing and I can't work out the venom towards him considering the lack of options available to the manager.
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Jenas has energy and knows when to get forward.
Against Fulham there were a fair few times when we were on the counter, and Bent would have the ball in the opposition box with little/no support.
Jenas is capable of getting beyond Bent, Ireland is the only midfield player who can do that in our squad at the minute (and for whatever reason isn't in contention).
Those are some positives.
He's very mobile, he can pass the ball and he can score, he’s not a lightweight off the ball either. These being qualities that our midfield has possessed only fleetingly (Milner) over the past 20 years.
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, is Jenas an upgrade on Reo-Coker? I would argue not.
You keep saying it so it must be true.
Eh?! First time I've mentioned it!
Eh?! - You mentioned it on the second post of this thread, on page 1!
I don't have anything against either player really, I just can't see that either of them are an improvement on players that we've got rid of this summer
And then also implied in on page 8.
But it's really not a big deal: you have your opinion about the merits of both players; I think that - as long as JJ is 'up' for it - he has the passing, tackling and energy to surpass what NRC could offer. But it is all down to whether he has the stomach for it.
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My main problem with Jenas is that he'd go into a midfield which would still lack technicality, guile and an ability to do the unexpected. It's a middling, Sidwell-esque signing, and I'm far from convinced that he's better than Makoun, or will help us get the best out of our other better players.
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We haven't seen Jenas play regular football in years. I don't think we can judge his first-team impact on a campaign until he sees the pitch. We'll be fine.
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Agree Monty, he is not a creative midfielder, although he has got a better pass on him than Petrov.He is a holding midfielder with more mobility than Petrov.The craft in midfield has to come from Bannan or Ireland.
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BLF, I don't even think he's that. I don't think he can read the game well enough, certainly not as well as Petrov, I don't think he can pass the ball better and I don't think he can particularly tackle. He sort of runs around and really looks like a footballer, but I've never known what he can actually do. I hope he proves me wrong, but he just strikes me as being a nearly good enough at a lot, but isn't quite at anything.
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BLF, I don't even think he's that. I don't think he can read the game well enough, certainly not as well as Petrov, I don't think he can pass the ball better and I don't think he can particularly tackle. He sort of runs around and really looks like a footballer, but I've never known what he can actually do. I hope he proves me wrong, but he just strikes me as being a nearly good enough at a lot, but isn't quite at anything.
I think in our current system he will be pressured by McLeish to get forward. He'll work hard box to box, but I think his true impact will be in the final third. He may not be young anymore, but he still has a young style of play if you can understand what I mean? I can see a positive offensive improvement with Jenas in the squad. He could significantly better our 4-5-1.
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The thing is, if you have one midfielder of a three getting forward, you need a deep lying playmaker of the Xabi Alonso mould (though not necessarily as good) to dictate the tempo, because you've sacrificed having that player further forward. We don't have that kind of player, so we still won't create enough chances for his forward runs to be really relevant.
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Both will turn out to be great signings, I think JJ will surprise a few on here, he has everything we have been lacking in the middle of the park, great energy, good on the ball and puts his foot in! Him & Delph will compliment each other I'm sure.
I'd take Jenas over Petrov any day of the week!
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This is the Sidwell esque Jenas that Mourinho wanted to take to Inter as he saw him as one of the more technically gifted English midfielders
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ozzjim you shouldn't read press releases from agents!
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My main problem with Jenas is that he'd go into a midfield which would still lack technicality, guile and an ability to do the unexpected. It's a middling, Sidwell-esque signing, and I'm far from convinced that he's better than Makoun, or will help us get the best out of our other better players.
OK but other than that we have lot of ......ermmm... well not a lot.
Obviously Bannan and Ireland are the answer.
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For everyone saying that Jenas isnt any good...do you remember Darren Bent at Spurs? Since leaving the club he improved vastly and is now worshipped down at VP. A similar transformation could happen to JJ. Give him a chance.
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ozzjim you shouldn't read press releases from agents!
Was Jenas himself, and Mourinho mentioned his admiration for him too.
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For everyone saying that Jenas isnt any good...do you remember Darren Bent at Spurs? Since leaving the club he improved vastly and is now worshipped down at VP. A similar transformation could happen to JJ. Give him a chance.
Bent scored goals at Spurs the same as he has everywhere else - a mystery to me why they shipped him out. Probably because he was making 'Arry's golden boy Defoe look average!
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For everyone saying that Jenas isnt any good...do you remember Darren Bent at Spurs? Since leaving the club he improved vastly and is now worshipped down at VP. A similar transformation could happen to JJ. Give him a chance.
I remember Darren Bent being very good before Spurs, very good at Spurs and very good after leaving Spurs.
I remember Jenas being average before Spurs and average at Spurs. I'm crossing my fingers that something changes, but I'm not banking on it.
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This is the Sidwell esque Jenas that Mourinho wanted to take to Inter as he saw him as one of the more technically gifted English midfielders
I totally forgot about that, there again Mourinho did sign Sidwell too.
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from wiki
Despite an impressive first season with Newcastle United, in which he won the 2002–03 PFA Young Player of the Year award,[5] Jenas failed to repeat his initial form with the club and his two subsequent seasons were disappointing considering his early promise. Known for his strong "box-to-box" play and ability to score from midfield, Jenas' last two years with Newcastle were marked by a series of inexplicably bland displays, but goals and energy started to dry up, leading to Jenas starting fewer games. Despite temporarily regaining his form and gaining the vice-captaincy under new manager Graeme Souness early in the 2004–05 season, Jenas' form dipped again with only two goals in 48 appearances. He scored a total of 12 goals in 152 appearances for Newcastle United.
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Jenas has a lot to prove IMO.
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This is the Sidwell esque Jenas that Mourinho wanted to take to Inter as he saw him as one of the more technically gifted English midfielders
I totally forgot about that, there again Mourinho did sign Sidwell too.
I totally forgot about that! Not the best defence witness chosen by me there! Ooops!
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For everyone saying that Jenas isnt any good...do you remember Darren Bent at Spurs? Since leaving the club he improved vastly and is now worshipped down at VP. A similar transformation could happen to JJ. Give him a chance.
I remember Darren Bent being very good before Spurs, very good at Spurs and very good after leaving Spurs.
I remember Jenas being average before Spurs and average at Spurs. I'm crossing my fingers that something changes, but I'm not banking on it.
We can't really judge both Jenas and Hutton on how they performed recently because they both couldn't get in the team. There is potential for both, but they are stick your neck out signings. Jenas could be a Solano game changer or a Leonhardson/Djemba Djemban non-entity.
Also, I take it the Joe Cole approach was before we went in for Jenas. If so, he wasn't even a first choice desperation signing.
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Joe Cole and Jenas are very different players, I reckon we might well have got all 3 had Cole agreed to come. I think he would have been a top signing too.
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For everyone saying that Jenas isnt any good...do you remember Darren Bent at Spurs? Since leaving the club he improved vastly and is now worshipped down at VP. A similar transformation could happen to JJ. Give him a chance.
I remember Darren Bent being very good before Spurs, very good at Spurs and very good after leaving Spurs.
I remember Jenas being average before Spurs and average at Spurs. I'm crossing my fingers that something changes, but I'm not banking on it.
If Darren Bent was "very good" at Spurs, why did they sell him? Teams like Spurs don't sell "very good" players. They buy them.
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They do indeed sell very good players.
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They do indeed sell very good players.
Lots of them! Spurs are just more skilled at it than us.
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They do indeed sell very good players.
Lots of them! Spurs are just more skilled at it than us.
They kept Modric though. Fair play to them for that. It may cost them, but at least they stuck their ground. We just took it for granted that Young and Downing were leaving.
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easier for spurs to keep him when he still has 4 or 5 years left on his contract. if like young or downing he was in his last year or 2 i have no doubt they would have taken the mega money on offer this summer. he will go at some point, just like carrick, berbatov and keane did. and just like bale will. and we stuck our ground with barry, didnt really help us in the long term. we sold him for 8 million less than we would have the season before and keeping him that extra year didnt help us get a higher position.
anyway, i think hutton is a good replacement for young. younger, better going foward and i dont think really any worse at defending to be honest. jenas im not a fan of. i think he has talent in there but he never shows it enough. seems to get injured quite a bit as well.
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Whoop de do ?? Who f*ckin' cares?
Well if you dont, why bother posting on the thread??
I think they are going to be major players for Villa and when I look at the squad as it is I see terrific opportunities for Alan and Jermaine to make their mark in the PL.
Add to Given, N'Zogbia and Stevens (in January) - a very effective use of funds in a tansfer window, so well done AMcL.
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We'll find out won't we? Jenas has been highly rated enough to move to various 'large' clubs. This suggests there is plenty there and he is still not too old to prove himself. If he is shit, which I doubt, he will be replaced by the kids and f*cked off back to Spurs. I think he will do ok but if he doesn't not the end of the world. Hutton is at least as good as Young and is younger. We have spent £4m (?) partially (if not totally) sorted the finances, are unbeaten so far this season and have plenty to look forward to. I don't think any of our signings this summer are as shit as others do, for one thing they are all international players (and before the pedants arrive, I know nothing about Enda in terms of International experience and he doesn't arrive until Jan anyway). Just my thoughts and opinion. We'll see how it goes...
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For everyone saying that Jenas isnt any good...do you remember Darren Bent at Spurs? Since leaving the club he improved vastly and is now worshipped down at VP. A similar transformation could happen to JJ. Give him a chance.
I remember Darren Bent being very good before Spurs, very good at Spurs and very good after leaving Spurs.
I remember Jenas being average before Spurs and average at Spurs. I'm crossing my fingers that something changes, but I'm not banking on it.
If Darren Bent was "very good" at Spurs, why did they sell him? Teams like Spurs don't sell "very good" players. They buy them.
His spell at Spurs was his least prolific of all the clubs he played for and was mainly limited to cameo appearances coming off the bench (at least towards the end of his stay anyway) so it could be argued he did well considering the limited amount of game time, however what I remember mostly was the public humiliation and criticism from 'Arry and the media.
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easier for spurs to keep him when he still has 4 or 5 years left on his contract. if like young or downing he was in his last year or 2 i have no doubt they would have taken the mega money on offer this summer. he will go at some point, just like carrick, berbatov and keane did. and just like bale will. and we stuck our ground with barry, didnt really help us in the long term. we sold him for 8 million less than we would have the season before and keeping him that extra year didnt help us get a higher position.
anyway, i think hutton is a good replacement for young. younger, better going foward and i dont think really any worse at defending to be honest. jenas im not a fan of. i think he has talent in there but he never shows it enough. seems to get injured quite a bit as well.
Yes they sold Carrick etc, but perhaps this is where they decided they had to keep the family jewels otherwise why bother. They probably knew they couldn't attract anyone else of his stature, even with all that money. Also they still have a class midfielder in Van der Vaart as well.
I can understand Young going, as everyone saw that coming. The Downing one wasn't really on the cards. We should have stood our ground, as it has really left us short creatively for this season.
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If Hutton two-foots Downing he'll be a hero.
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They do indeed sell very good players.
Lots of them! Spurs are just more skilled at it than us.
They kept Modric though. Fair play to them for that. It may cost them, but at least they stuck their ground. We just took it for granted that Young and Downing were leaving.
Yeah, and we kept Barry for a year when Liverpool were in for him, something forgotten in the rush to wank over Spurs.
Lets see how well it serves them.
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Upon reflection, Hutton might work out ok. He had a decent loan spell at Sunderland which is about our level now. Not the greatest professional going, was often well overweight when out of the Spurs side and infamously beat up his old man in a drunken brawl not too long ago in London. So you would worry about the likes of him mixing with Collins and Dunne if they get into bad habits again. Then again they are probably like minded souls.
Good player going forward but a bit like Luke Young can get caught positionally. Regular football might see the best of him.
Jermaine Jenas has not been a decent player in a long time. Slight chance that away from the bright lights of London he might discover his best form but Im not going to hold out too much hope for him. He should have left Spurs a long time ago if he actually had an interest in his career.
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They do indeed sell very good players.
Lots of them! Spurs are just more skilled at it than us.
They kept Modric though. Fair play to them for that. It may cost them, but at least they stuck their ground. We just took it for granted that Young and Downing were leaving.
Maybe their Multi-billionnaire owner didn't like the thought of Abramovitch walking in and taking one of his better players just because he wanted him, so decided to show who was boss (for this window at least)
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I suspect it is more about not giving a manager who won't be there in 12 months 30 odd million to spend than any plucky act of defiance.
They'll sell him in January, I bet. Easier to not spend the proceeds then.
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We've also stood up to the big boys when we made barry stay. Young we didnt have a choice, Downing is just a wanker. If i were Spurs I would have sold at that price. Could have really strengthened the side with £40m could even have had Yossi in the deal, My mate at work is a spurs fan and he reckons Levvi has lost faith in Rednapp which is why he's not been backed
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We've also stood up to the big boys when we made barry stay. Young we didnt have a choice, Downing is just a wanker. If i were Spurs I would have sold at that price. Could have really strengthened the side with £40m could even have had Yossi in the deal, My mate at work is a spurs fan and he reckons Levvi has lost faith in Rednapp which is why he's not been backed
It's most likely because he's blatantly going to be England manager after the Euros.
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First off- what is this special relationship we have with Spuds or Harry? Second why do we take his "not wanteds".
Thirdly, I am a supporter of RL, gave him a few months as was impressed. As I am with Mcleish and his ability to bring the squad together and improve the defence.
My fear of AMc, however, was that we would not concentrate on creative players/tactics and not feed Bent. The other fear was that he would sign players of mediocre quality.
My fear of Randy ( now that the Houllier debacle is over) was that he would not learn his lesson from MoN in allowing managers to buy/borrow journeymen.
My fears have overcome my hopes. My glass is officially now - half empty. For the first time I can remember.
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I'm impressed by what Jenas has had to say, he seems really determined to do well.
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Jermaine Jenas has not been a decent player in a long time. Slight chance that away from the bright lights of London he might discover his best form but Im not going to hold out too much hope for him. He should have left Spurs a long time ago if he actually had an interest in his career.
Thats actually a good point, he's a midland boy so hopefully he'll settle back into the area and just concentrate on his football, he's entering his peak years now so maybe this move is exactly what he needs.
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The problem with Jenas was that at Spurs he was in and out of the side. He was never allowed to develop and grow into the side, if he had one below par performance he was out. This is the same for a lot of players, Milner springs to mind. He only became a very good player when he was constantly playing, his erratic form for Man City and the national side is proof of that.
So, we can hope that given a good run in the side Jenas will show his true worth and what we think he's capable of. If he doesn't, well, it's not a major gamble we've taken.
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Just been watching their interviews on AVTV and both seem genuinely pleased to be here. I think they'll both be very good additions to the squad this season.
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Just been watching their interviews on AVTV and both seem genuinely pleased to be here. I think they'll both be very good additions to the squad this season.
I thought that last night. You could tell they were itching to get started. Jenas himself said it was hard at Spurs when he was in and out of the side. If he gets a good run here I think he'll be a really good addition. Hutton is an upgrade to Young and has worked well with Eck so I expect good things from him as well.
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Bugger me we sign two blokes who can't get near the Spuds first team and all of a sudden they are Cinderella's as opposed to ugly sisters.
NRC was going to make all the difference
Sidwell was going to make all the difference
ireland was going to make all the difference
makoun was going to make all the difference
bannan was going to make all the difference
albrighton was going to make all the difference
Nzog is going to make all the difference
can you see the point??
jenas has been mediocre for years but he arrives at VP and all of a sudden the Aston air hits him and he gets a new lease of life.
Deluded
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I take it your glass is half empty?
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Bugger me we sign two blokes who can't get near the Spuds first team and all of a sudden they are Cinderella's as opposed to ugly sisters.
NRC was going to make all the difference
Sidwell was going to make all the difference
ireland was going to make all the difference
makoun was going to make all the difference
bannan was going to make all the difference
albrighton was going to make all the difference
Nzog is going to make all the difference
can you see the point??
jenas has been mediocre for years but he arrives at VP and all of a sudden the Aston air hits him and he gets a new lease of life.
Deluded
Well to be honest there is no point in being doom and gloom about it now. Jenas is at Villa he should be afforded the chance to prove himself. He seems keen and wants to do well, where's the harm in giving him a chance?
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He might like to breath the Aston air, at least he will get his chance to. Far better than being smothered in North London for lack of air I'd say..
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Bugger me we sign two blokes who can't get near the Spuds first team and all of a sudden they are Cinderella's as opposed to ugly sisters.
NRC was going to make all the difference
Sidwell was going to make all the difference
ireland was going to make all the difference
makoun was going to make all the difference
bannan was going to make all the difference
albrighton was going to make all the difference
Nzog is going to make all the difference
can you see the point??
jenas has been mediocre for years but he arrives at VP and all of a sudden the Aston air hits him and he gets a new lease of life.
Deluded
yes, we are deluded, and you've seen the light. Can you post something positive, just once, so that you don't appear to sound like a broken record. Everything is shit, the club is crap, the players are worthless, boo fucking hoo, oh woe is me. You give the impression of being in such pain talking about Villa that you must wonder to yourself sometimes why you even bother?
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He's only on loan...get over yourself FFS..
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Bugger me we sign two blokes who can't get near the Spuds first team and all of a sudden they are Cinderella's as opposed to ugly sisters.
NRC was going to make all the difference
Sidwell was going to make all the difference
ireland was going to make all the difference
makoun was going to make all the difference
bannan was going to make all the difference
albrighton was going to make all the difference
Nzog is going to make all the difference
can you see the point??
jenas has been mediocre for years but he arrives at VP and all of a sudden the Aston air hits him and he gets a new lease of life.
Deluded
It's more the case of getting behind the Villa players and supporting them in the hope they will perform to their best for the club. After all we are supporters..........aren't we??
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This is minimal risk as far as I'm concerned.
Jenas does OK>good - we look at a permanent deal. Probably a bit lower than the £7/8 million quoted this summer - as he'll be further into his contract.
Jenas does shit - He'll be gone in 12 months -and we won't have to write off another large fee.
True, there is a risk that if he does too well, Saggy Chops and Levy will want him back. But whatever the manager situation there, it's likely that they'll be looking at the latest batch of in vogue midfielders to pack the squad out with. It's almost a given.
Can't pretend that I'm a fan of the loan system in general -particularly for a club of our size. I'm struggling to think of the last decent club who actually had a good season based on hired help. It's OK for rookies of big clubs to go out to Norwich and the like and get game time - but that's about it. Still Jenas is here now and -who knows- he might buck the trend. From what I've seen of him through the years, he does a bit of everything - without really excelling in one department. Barry would stand out for his composure on the ball, and occasional bit of cheek when in possession. Milner would stand out for his sheer industry -defending by our corner flag one moment and then attacking up the other end in the next passage of play.
Jenas has decent technique, decent pace can tackle and weigh in with a few goals. He was still featuring in some of Tottingham's CL side last year -despite their stockpile of other players for his position. Where he has always struggled -as far as I can tell- is stamping his authority on the game/ bossing the midfield. But sometimes things just click, as part of a triumvirate with Petrov and Delph he won't have to do that alone. ALL three of those can do the ugly stuff as well as the more creative stuff.
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Old interview regarding Jenas, seems a likeable fella. Good luck in the Claret & Blue mate.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/aug/30/premierleague.tottenhamhotspur1
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Even if Jenas does well for us, I think he has lost his chance at Spurs given that they should be aiming for CL and they will be looking to bring in someone better in midfield. Worst case scenario is they could use any decent form to increase the price. Obviously a managerial change may affect that if 'Arry goes but any new manager would have his own thoughts and targets anyway. First things first though...lets hope he does well for us this season.
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Bugger me we sign two blokes who can't get near the Spuds first team and all of a sudden they are Cinderella's as opposed to ugly sisters.
NRC was going to make all the difference
Sidwell was going to make all the difference
ireland was going to make all the difference
makoun was going to make all the difference
bannan was going to make all the difference
albrighton was going to make all the difference
Nzog is going to make all the difference
can you see the point??
jenas has been mediocre for years but he arrives at VP and all of a sudden the Aston air hits him and he gets a new lease of life.
Deluded
No, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Is it that more footballer are just normal rather than world class?
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I'm struggling to think of the last decent club who actually had a good season based on hired help.
Tevez at Man Utd would be the example that springs to mind. But they'd probably have won everything even if he hadn't been there.
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He's only on loan...get over yourself FFS..
Who UsualSuspect ? When and where does he go back ?
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That Tevez deal was a weird Latin American/ Italian style deal, wasn't it? Didn't that spiv Joorabchin own his licence or summat, so Man U were effectively loaning Tevez from him -rather than being helped out by another club.
In fact, the whole loan market in Italy -joint ownership and all the rest of it is seriously open to abuse. If UEFA/ FIFA were not parasitic cash chasers themselves, they might want to take a closer look at that.
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I take it your glass is half empty?
No. UsualSuspect's glass has been spilled on the floor, smashed and he has trod barefoot on the shards. And that is on a good day.
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I'm struggling to think of the last decent club who actually had a good season based on hired help.
Tevez at Man Utd would be the example that springs to mind. But they'd probably have won everything even if he hadn't been there.
Carbone was effective in parts when he joined us in 99-00 on loan.
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Sturridge was effective for Bolton on loan, as was Wellbeck at Sunderland. Jenas is nowhere near as bad as people are making out, and will be a good addition with no risk. Plays well I reckon he will want to stay.
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Bugger me we sign two blokes who can't get near the Spuds first team and all of a sudden they are Cinderella's as opposed to ugly sisters.
NRC was going to make all the difference
Sidwell was going to make all the difference
ireland was going to make all the difference
makoun was going to make all the difference
bannan was going to make all the difference
albrighton was going to make all the difference
Nzog is going to make all the difference
can you see the point??
jenas has been mediocre for years but he arrives at VP and all of a sudden the Aston air hits him and he gets a new lease of life.
Deluded
What are you still doing here then?
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I think Jenas will do well for Villa, as he will be hungry to prove himself and stick two fingers up to Harry Redknapp.
I will think Spurs will not want him back as they will be looking for more exotic players. I do like him as a player. But not sure how good is he as I don't watch him regularly.
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Sturridge was effective for Bolton on loan, as was Wellbeck at Sunderland. Jenas is nowhere near as bad as people are making out, and will be a good addition with no risk. Plays well I reckon he will want to stay.
Well quite. Smallish or unattractive clubs with no real intention (or likelihood) at the start of the season of achieving anything.
Again, decent sides don't rely on loans -or view borrowed players as any way to achieve success.
Though I accept the tag I've applied to Sunderland there probably applies to us at present. Hopefully it's a temporary state of affairs and we get back to some of the more positive aspects of MON's transfer strategy soon -that is buying talented young English players on the up. Rather than stop gaps and short term deals.
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Carbone was a good loan and 2000 as a good season, sadly marred at the Cup final.
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Don't forget Milner was on loan for the first stint with us.
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Bugger me we sign two blokes who can't get near the Spuds first team and all of a sudden they are Cinderella's as opposed to ugly sisters.
NRC was going to make all the difference
Sidwell was going to make all the difference
ireland was going to make all the difference
makoun was going to make all the difference
bannan was going to make all the difference
albrighton was going to make all the difference
Nzog is going to make all the difference
can you see the point??
jenas has been mediocre for years but he arrives at VP and all of a sudden the Aston air hits him and he gets a new lease of life.
Deluded
Well you go off line for a while and when you pop back on somethings never change!
Welcome to Villa Hutton and Jenas, lets hope you get your careers back on track.
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Sturridge was effective for Bolton on loan, as was Wellbeck at Sunderland. Jenas is nowhere near as bad as people are making out, and will be a good addition with no risk. Plays well I reckon he will want to stay.
Well quite. Smallish or unattractive clubs with no real intention (or likelihood) at the start of the season of achieving anything.
Again, decent sides don't rely on loans -or view borrowed players as any way to achieve success.
Ibrahimovic pretty much won Milan the league while on loan.
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How are people going to complain about a loan deal?! He's out of contract in two years, so we'll get him this year and see how it plays out.. if in fact he does do well then we buy him at the end of the season, end of. Wouldn't you want to see what you are getting before you purchase it?
The guy obviously has the potential to do well. He has impressed in the past and caught a bad run while at the same club for nearly 6 years. He fell down in the pecking order and now is his chance to show what he can offer to a new manager. Some of you just whine and moan constantly. He's going to score against QPR and Newcastle and everyone will deem him a god-send. Give the guy time before you kick him while he's down. His future with Villa is bright.
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Everyone, calm down, calm down.
Give them both a fair crack of the whip. If they are both a pile of cac kafter 5 or 6 games than so be it but at least give them ago.
Eck can't be judged on his first 3 games either , my only major complaint so far is playing Heskey on the wing but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for another few games before I start losing the plot.
Easy now.
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Don't forget Milner was on loan for the first stint with us.
The season we finished 16th? Yes.
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Sturridge was effective for Bolton on loan, as was Wellbeck at Sunderland. Jenas is nowhere near as bad as people are making out, and will be a good addition with no risk. Plays well I reckon he will want to stay.
Well quite. Smallish or unattractive clubs with no real intention (or likelihood) at the start of the season of achieving anything.
Again, decent sides don't rely on loans -or view borrowed players as any way to achieve success.
Ibrahimovic pretty much won Milan the league while on loan.
European sides generally play the loan market smarter, and lack of finance -even for the big Italian sides such as Milan- forces their hand somewhat.
I don't have a huge problem with the Jenas deal under the current arrangement -as I've said earlier. I do think as a general rule that sides on the up generally don't resort to loans and short term deals to fill their squads. And I don't think that's a particularly unreasonable viewpoint. It's not indicative of long term planning for success.
In particular relation to JJ, I would say the irony is he's probably a far better player than Sidwell, NRC and co- players who we signed when we were actually on the up as a club.
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I don't understand the negative posts. Hutton is a sound right back who in my view is a better defender than Walker was and in many respects is just as good going forward. Being reunited with McLeish will be great for Hutton and Villa. I watched a number of Spuds CL games last season and thought that Hutton's ability to play the ball forward on the right side was useful.
With Reo-Coker gone we were lacking an experienced midfielder and Jenas fits the bill and will cost less. Yes, he occasionally goes missing in games but that was also said about Hokey, Sidwell and Davis. Jenas has an engine that will help make up for Petrov's late game tiredness.
Jenas is a better technical player than R-C with the added value that Jenas can actually score goals which Sidwell and R-C couldn't while with us. On his day JJ has flair, the challenge for McLeish is going to be to make sure he rebuilds the confidence so that JJ is always on his day at B6. It's not impossible.
After a season on loan, if Jenas fits our team he ought to be available to us for reasonable money. But first things first, let's get him ITSOTP and back to the kind of form that had him in contention for an England spot.
On the whole I think AM did a good piece of work on this pair and we should get behind them both because they will be wearing claret and blue and will likely do better than expected . Welcome both of them !
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I don't understand the negative posts. Hutton is a sound right back who in my view is a better defender than Walker was and in many respects is just as good going forward. Being reunited with McLeish will be great for Hutton and Villa. I watched a number of Spuds CL games last season and thought that Hutton's ability to play the ball forward on the right side was useful.
With Reo-Coker gone we were lacking an experienced midfielder and Jenas fits the bill and will cost less. Yes, he occasionally goes missing in games but that was also said about Hokey, Sidwell and Davis. Jenas has an engine that will help make up for Petrov's late game tiredness.
Jenas is a better technical player than R-C with the added value that Jenas can actually score goals which Sidwell and R-C couldn't while with us. On his day JJ has flair, the challenge for McLeish is going to be to make sure he rebuilds the confidence so that JJ is always on his day at B6. It's not impossible.
After a season on loan, if Jenas fits our team he ought to be available to us for reasonable money. But first things first, let's get him ITSOTP and back to the kind of form that had him in contention for an England spot.
On the whole I think AM did a good piece of work on this pair and we should get behind them both because they will be wearing claret and blue and will likely do better than expected . Welcome both of them !
It may be good business, but the question surely has to be asked why go and get Cole at the last minute, fail, and then get Jenas who is very different player; it does smack of any new bod will do. I hope he kicks on with us though.
I think Villa fans who have expressed disappointment have done so because it must be said, of the 4 players brought in, 3 were squad players for their respective teams. This is even more galling when you consider the England game against Bulgaria where Young, Downing, Barry and Milner featured prominently.
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Well let's say then that it is Plan B or maybe even C good business ;)
I happen to think that Joe Cole would probably have been too expensive for Villa at this time and also two years older than Jenas. IIRC Cole is on loan to Lille from 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and you have to ask why Dalglish is letting Cole go. I happen to think that Cole has not been at his best since he came back from the 2006 World Cup with a stress fracture to his big toe.
My gut feeling is that Cole may have been an expensive bust for us and in reality the upside for JJ may be higher. We will see.
We will never be privy to all the targets that Prem Managers have in their sights. I am glad that McLeish, having missed out on Cole for whatever reason, was still able to put together a deal for JJ. We aren't exactly blessed with experienced midfielders. With the exit of R-C and Makoun, we were seriously short. Two injuries to key players would have been putting a lot of pressure on the whole team. We know that Jenas could do a job. The risk factor with him isn't high.
This way gives Delph and Bannan both an opportunity to blend into the first team without the pressure of being McLeish's only options. JJ was known at Spurs to be willing to mentor the younger players so there is good reason for AM to have him at BMH.
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Don't forget Milner was on loan for the first stint with us.
The season we finished 16th? Yes.
Without him we'd have sunk.
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Considering nearly everyone leaves it to the last minuet to do deals, they might as well make the transfer window just one day, 24 hours to get your deals done then that's it
I'tl stop managers sitting on there hands for weeks doing nothing only to go into panic mode on the last day, just start with the last day
There problem solved , next
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Considering nearly everyone leaves it to the last minuet to do deals, they might as well make the transfer window just one day, 24 hours to get your deals done then that's it
I'tl stop managers sitting on there hands for weeks doing nothing only to go into panic mode on the last day, just start with the last day
There problem solved , next
It would also stop those wankers on sky hupeing up the whole fkin thing
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Personally I think the transfer window is a complete joke, mangers hate it, clubs hate it, players hate it, the only parties addicted to it are agents and Sky, agents because they can manipulate fee's and Sky because they get a decent 24hrs of bums on seats, I mean did you see the Sky fella that was on the news desk the other night, Scottish fella, fs, he must have had an intravenous drip feed of statins going at all times to keep his blood pressure even reasonable, did you see the Sky girl, there ain't a bloke out there that gets her that excited, that said i wouldn't mind being the boyfriend at home waiting for her to show up after she's done her shift, can you imagine.
It should work the other way, Transfer Window open at all time with just a month break in winter and a further month during the summer.
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The alternative is to make contracts binding, then only allow transfers at the end of the contracts.
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In a similar vein to US sports, it would save a huge amount of cash in fees.
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Things will never change unless we see a salary cap. It's complete and utter nonsense that there isn't, the ability for the big to get bigger ruins the game.
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Would now be a good time to shamelessly plug the Salary cap Facebook campaign I joined recently?
http://www.facebook.com/groups/133138463448386/
I definitely agree that a salary cap is what is needed. I used to be skeptical about it but I feel that the best way to level the playing field is to give all clubs the same amount to pay on wages. Thus meaning that the club which is best run, with the best manager and who finds the best players will be the ones who win rather than just the guy who is richest.
On transfer windows I really think we should close it BEFORE the season starts as some managers have been arguing recently. Give the new players time to settle in and not have distracted players thinking about moves at the start of the season. Am I right in thinking that UEFA only mandate the length of the window and not when it should be?
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Things will never change unless we see a salary cap. It's complete and utter nonsense that there isn't, the ability for the big to get bigger ruins the game.
That's it in a nutshell as far as I'm concerned
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Some may criticise the American way of doing things, but they are way ahead of most countries when it comes to rules for competitive sports (thats a bit of a generalisation and I'm sure not all their rules make sense) and already have the salary cap and structure in place. The problem we have is that it is gone so far out of control that I cant see it happening without forcing the European Super League or whatever they'd want to call it.
As far as the transfer window goes, I think the opposite to Villanation and it should be cut short to a week before the start of the season so squads are complete before the campaigns start. All this transfer activity 4 or 5 games already into the season is complete bolx and disruptive, and its almost as if the first few weeks of the season dont really count. They should also scrap the January transfer window...you do your business in the summer, utilise the squad at your disposal and deal with the consequences if you end up in a relegation scrap.
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There is a weird irony that Russia now has the most obscenely paid footballer in the world. And yet the home of naked outright capitalism sees no problem with salary caps, draft picks weighted in favour of weaker teams and all the rest of it.*
Something has to be done -but it needs to be on a pan Europe basis. The 4/5 teams in England who now believe themselves to be virtually untouchable will naturally fight it all the way. Particularly if similar constraints aren't applicable to Italian or Spanish sides.
* I'm aware that America has some obscenely paid sportstars in it's most popular sports too
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I think it would be nice if the bigger "making up the numbers" clubs like us, Everton, Newcastle, and Sunderland were to lead a breakaway, taking the other 80 odd clubs in the lower divisions with them, and go back to the old pre PL system. The SKy 4 (5) need some cannon fodder to play against, remove that and they don't have a league and Sky don't have a product. They then have a choice to form a european super league, and good riddance if they do, or play by the new rules. We get our game back minus the greedier self interested clubs who screwed the game in the first place .
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I'd agree with that KT but cannot see it happening unless the 80+ can tie up a deal with TV and since sky won't want it to happen then it won't.
One of many reasons for limiting skypower
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Going to cancel Sky this week and switch to BT. Way too expensive for what it is and it is time I took my own personal stand against the ridiculous amounts of money washing around in the game. Not that it will make much difference of course but I shall feel better for it. Fed up too with the constant overhyping of football which has become such an utterly mediocre product. I think last week's transfer deadline day coverage was the final nail in the coffin - people with half a brain cell having orgasms over signing Crouch, Palacios, Wright-Phillips, Anton Ferdinand et al. I shan't miss the games either, they are so awful for the most part and I am better off seeing what few highlights these games have on MOTD. Roll on the Rugby World Cup meantime, some proper, decent sport played in the sort of spirit which last existed in football in about 1950....
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A salary cap is just not on. Probably illegal if someone challenges it in Europe. The only people to blame are the clubs themselves and the fans to an extent who put pressure on them to pay these salaries. The bottom line is its always been this way even back in the 60's before Jimmy hill turned up. Players like Greaves went abroad to make money and also had ways of improving their basic pay through various under the table deals. All that would happen IMO would be salaries would reduce but the reduction would be made up in things like image rights.
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The alternative is to make contracts binding, then only allow transfers at the end of the contracts.
Considering you're using my nickname and I never seem to agree with a word you say.........I'm stunned that I actually concur with the above! :)
Why can someone legally bugger off at the end of a contract, but isn't required to honour it? Baffles me.
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Going to cancel Sky this week and switch to BT. Way too expensive for what it is and it is time I took my own personal stand against the ridiculous amounts of money washing around in the game. Not that it will make much difference of course but I shall feel better for it. Fed up too with the constant overhyping of football which has become such an utterly mediocre product. I think last week's transfer deadline day coverage was the final nail in the coffin - people with half a brain cell having orgasms over signing Crouch, Palacios, Wright-Phillips, Anton Ferdinand et al. I shan't miss the games either, they are so awful for the most part and I am better off seeing what few highlights these games have on MOTD. Roll on the Rugby World Cup meantime, some proper, decent sport played in the sort of spirit which last existed in football in about 1950....
I think Im with you there ...
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Going to cancel Sky this week and switch to BT. Way too expensive for what it is and it is time I took my own personal stand against the ridiculous amounts of money washing around in the game. Not that it will make much difference of course but I shall feel better for it. Fed up too with the constant overhyping of football which has become such an utterly mediocre product. I think last week's transfer deadline day coverage was the final nail in the coffin - people with half a brain cell having orgasms over signing Crouch, Palacios, Wright-Phillips, Anton Ferdinand et al. I shan't miss the games either, they are so awful for the most part and I am better off seeing what few highlights these games have on MOTD. Roll on the Rugby World Cup meantime, some proper, decent sport played in the sort of spirit which last existed in football in about 1950....
I think Im with you there ...
Never had Sky (tried to get it last year because of switchover, but told by installer that there were to many trees around my house!!)
Seen it in pub a few times, but never heard commentary until ahem, recently watched dubious internet coverage. Couldn't believe how biased the commentary was in favour of certain teams. Used to think ITV Champions League coverage was bad enough.
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A Baggies friend of mine commented tonight on our good business in the transfer market bringing in Hutton and Jenas...I was very surprised because he was actually being serious and not taking the piss for a change!
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A Baggies friend of mine commented tonight on our good business in the transfer market bringing in Hutton and Jenas...I was very surprised because he was actually being serious and not taking the piss for a change!
I suppose it is good to get an outsider's view. The Mirror over the weekend declared Villa had a successful transfer window with Hutton and Jenas. Conversely they said Spurs also had a good transfer window, as they had basically got rid of their tat.