Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: WeDontWantMcelish on August 28, 2011, 01:23:02 AM
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We keep hearing Mcleish has made a 'good' start but is 5 points from 3 easy games really a good start? After this weekend we'll be around 8th having not played anything like a decent team. So that tells me so far our projected finishing position would be around 12/13 when you take into account us having to play the big teams. So an average to a below average start would be a more accurate statement.
He needs to understand simply not loosing isn't good enough for a club like Villa !!
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somewhere between good and average
I feel a tad bad for him as we had enough chances to score today, if dunnes header had bulleted in for example we'd be joint top
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Strong username
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A few points.
- We finished 9th last season and since then we have lost a number of solid or better first team performers so sadly a midtable position is about par for the course. I'd put us a little higher up than your 12th/13th more 9th/10th. That's not McLeish's fault. It's the harsh financial restrictions that he has to work under that are to blame for that.
- The possibly uninspiring defensive football we have been told to expect will actually work well against the better teams where the onus is on them to beat us than it will against the poorer teams who we will have difficulty breaking down.
- The season is still young. We will only truly know how good we are by Christmas where we will have a very clear picture of where we are at. I expect things will change. We might even stop playing Heskey as a roving defender!
- Aside from a few questions over his tactics I feel McLeish has done little wrong. He's said the right things (Unlike Houllier), he's improved the defence a bit (I'm not going to claim he's worked miracles yet though) and he's signed two players I think most people on this forum would quite happily have signed and who'll be excellent players for us.
I'm not going to claim he's brilliant. But all in all I think he's been decent enough so far. We'll know more in a few more games time.
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Thanks Sitch ;)
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TheZogman's got it spot on in my opinion.
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He's made a solid if unspectacular start. There's no point getting carried away and a million things will change during the course of the season. Right now the league table is meaningless as one win can vault you 10 places and one defeat can see you sink by the same. McLeish is still very much in the discovery stage of what he has, and it will take some time yet to get things really going. That's going to be our frustration as fans. I hope that in the next 4 days we can bring some new faces just to freshen things up. McLeish from his interviews knows it and hopefully the board will back his judgement..
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Considering the quality of opposition and that we've had two home games. 5 points is the minimum requirement.
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He needs to understand simply not loosing isn't good enough for a club like Villa !!
Well it is- to an extent. At least based on recent (ie almost 20 years) history. Most draws in the history of the Prem would indicate our standards aren't so high that we can dish out too much criticism for a guy a with a record of Won 1 Drawn 2 from his first three competitive games.
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Defending good, attacking need to do better. But there is fewer flair players. We need to be braver with Ireland and Bannan
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Average start considering who we have played and that two of the three games have been at Villa Park. Defending looks a lot better,while attacking certainly looks a lot worse.
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Your nickname tells me all I need to know.
I really cannot be bothered to check the results but how did Houllier, MON, DOL etc do in their 1st 3 games against sides outside the SKY4 ? I doubt their points haul was radically different. Were there any threads with the knives out after just 3 games for them ?
Clearly you are not going to accept the guy under any circumstances barring an absolutely miraculous set of results. But you could at least wait till he actually loses a game, be it next game or after xmas, before you have a go.
I am guessing you are one of three things.
1) One of the banner waving fools who were on the Holte steps for the cameras and still unable to accept reality.
2) One of the new class of supporter who frankly I despise. Anything less than a comfortable 2-0 home win with a 90 minute 5star performance is always greeted with booing the moment the ref blows the full time whistle. They want instant continual success and every manager is just two defeats from being a useless incompetent.
3) Here from the dark side making mischief.
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Average. Wolves have had the same fixtures but 2 away and 1 home and got 7 points, which gives the true difficulty of things into perspective.
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Average
Good point at fulham, I'm happy we've tightened up the defence. Worried about attack I think we've created one chance for Bent. I thought Ireland and Bannan were excellent in the week and I think one of them need to play in heskey's role
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5 points is the bare minimum I would have expected from our starting fixtures, so an average start. Still too early to judge him but defensive signs are good, attacking signs less so.
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I thought taking zog off (just after he skinned that hulk of a wolves sub) and putting bannan on the the right wing was a shocking sub.taking the momentum out of the game. It took Mcleish a further 10 mins to make another sub to finally put bannan in central midfield. Jury's very much still out with me.
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He has done exactly as expected. Sorted the defence, but lacking in attacking ideas and the football is uninspiring. I've heard this somewhere before.
Of course, he should be afforded time but has he got the ability to make the changes we clamour for? I don't think he has and thats why I didn't agree with his appointment.
We'll still be having this argument in May.
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I Rather lose a few games and win some, than draw shit loads and win the odd one.
If he continues with this policy of just playing every experienced player instead of picking the correct players in there correct positions then we are in for a long season.
People need to remember he has always played boring uninspiring football.
Blues, rangers and Scotland he played with 10 men behind the ball when faced with any decent opposition.
He seems to think because he has 3 strikers on the pitch we will accept it.
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Think its way to early to give a proper assessment, but based on results alone I personally would have been pleased with 7 points given who our first three opponents were as I would have expected us to be beat Wolves at home but last season we took no points from the same fixture, so would that infact be seen as an improvement?? (please don't answer that). But I'm not overly disappointed with 5.
But the man needs more than the first 3 games to be judged on his ability as to whether he can manage Aston Villa or not and as to whether he's made a good start or not, think we'd be better placed come end September/October by which time he will properly know his squads strengths etc..., and we'll have a better understanding of the man himself, his tactics and ability to change things in games when the need arises.
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Average
Good point at fulham, I'm happy we've tightened up the defence. Worried about attack I think we've created one chance for Bent. I thought Ireland and Bannan were excellent in the week and I think one of them need to play in heskey's role
I'd agree with that, i'd definatley start thinking about playing Ireland or Bannan at home. Away from home, Heskey is fine and he'll do a job, but at home, he's not really needed, although having said that, he's not played that bad so far.
As for McCleish, a reasonable start i think. We look more organised at the back and as a team. Just a bit of tinkering to help us get the best out of Bent will be a big help though.
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An 'OK' start for me.
He's getting to know the players and how the team can gel together.
3 points yesterday and this thread wouldn't exist.
Randy investing the Young and Downing money and this thread would not exist.
Any team in the Prem. relying on Heskey to deliver is going nowhere.
Getting the best out of Gabby a joy to watch, but I fear we're in for a very average ( at best) season with some drubbings away and some more of yesterdays type of game where we can't get the right balls into Benty and Petrov 'shoots' like he does.
I don't buy into 'Small Heath were boring and that's AM's style - he is given what he's given and I'm sure he'll do the best most Managers can with it.
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Jury still out for me.
After a shocking first half we should have won yesterday but they double tapped Gabby, sat on the front and back of Heskey and thus we had nothing. No imagination. They read us like an open book before the game began. Herd was an unexpected revelation and HE actually created and was unlucky.
They were the right substitutions but should have happened at the same time to give wee Barry his rightful role and of course, they were much too late.
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I Rather lose a few games and win some, than draw shit loads and win the odd one.
Wrong in so many ways............how are you supposed to achieve cohesion without a solid objective.
Once you have a mindset in the team that 'we will not lose', then you can start working on the next stage of 'we can win every game'.
We have not played enough games for the team to have the first mindset, don't run before you can walk.
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Average. In saying that though, there are signs of improvement in some areas (defense) but we have gone backwards in other areas (up front). Also, if you are to compare the results for the same games as last year, we are marginally ahead, which isn't bad considering how far ahead in terms of match preparation Fulham were this year.
You'd also need to be rather myopic to solely blame McLeish for our problems up front when we've lost two of our most influential players this summer. Then again, considering your username I don't think we'll can expect you to be fair in any discussion on the manager, can we?
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while we are unbeaten against some pretty uninspiring opponents, its been appalling on the football front and i dont see that changing anytime soon...
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Average. Wolves have had the same fixtures but 2 away and 1 home and got 7 points, which gives the true difficulty of things into perspective.
There is no comparison between the Fulham side at home and their form away from the Cottage.
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I Rather lose a few games and win some, than draw shit loads and win the odd one.
Wrong in so many ways............how are you supposed to achieve cohesion without a solid objective.
Once you have a mindset in the team that 'we will not lose', then you can start working on the next stage of 'we can win every game'.
We have not played enough games for the team to have the first mindset, don't run before you can walk.
You make a good point, but if you think it's Ok to 'walk' against wolves at home then try and 'Run' against Chelsea at home then your in for a long season.
Yesturday we came out after the break and dominated, then Wolves made changes which stopped us abit, we should then as the home team made an attacking change and try and win the game. Instead he swapped N'Zogbia for Bannan, when he should have took Hesley off instead.
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A decent enough start. Plenty to be pleased with and enough gripes too.
My main concern is whether he will be brave enough to put in wee Barry and the like from the start, particularly at home.
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My main concern is whether he will be brave enough to put in wee Barry and the like from the start, particularly at home.
I think he'll have to sooner or later. The Newcastle game would be a good start.
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My main concern is whether he will be brave enough to put in wee Barry and the like from the start, particularly at home.
I think he'll have to sooner or later. The Newcastle game would be a good start.
I was thinking up at Goodison, but then they're a physical bunch too, so I wouldn't be surprised or mind a great deal if he goes with the same side as today.
I think Heskey at home though, is not what is required when the onus is on us to dictate the tempo of the game.
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Didn't Want Mcliesh because of his ultra defensive style of football, having said that he's not played that way yet, when he was at Blues he played 1 up front and packed the midfield,
He's played with 3 strikers in every game so far, anyone saying that's a team going out for s draw and not to lose is talking utter shit and is not worth getting into a football debate with, the problem isn't negative tactics it's forwards who need to score, so maybe as others have suggested we need a bit more creative play from the midfield.
We also had all this crap last year when we were losing to the likes of Wolves at home, that we needed to get the points on the board before we met Liverpool and Arsenal as they would certainly be giving our pants a severe thrashing, as it turned out we beat them both
I didnt want Mcliesh, but i'l judge him on what I see and hear, not what I want to see to fit on withy view of him,
So far so good for me
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putting 3 strikers on the pitch with one of them wide left and the other in midfield, is not playing with 3 strikers...
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Your nickname tells me all I need to know.
I really cannot be bothered to check the results but how did Houllier, MON, DOL etc do in their 1st 3 games against sides outside the SKY4 ? I doubt their points haul was radically different. Were there any threads with the knives out after just 3 games for them ?
Clearly you are not going to accept the guy under any circumstances barring an absolutely miraculous set of results. But you could at least wait till he actually loses a game, be it next game or after xmas, before you have a go.
I am guessing you are one of three things.
1) One of the banner waving fools who were on the Holte steps for the cameras and still unable to accept reality.
2) One of the new class of supporter who frankly I despise. Anything less than a comfortable 2-0 home win with a 90 minute 5star performance is always greeted with booing the moment the ref blows the full time whistle. They want instant continual success and every manager is just two defeats from being a useless incompetent.
3) Here from the dark side making mischief.
Agree 100%, once I'd seen his user name it seemed pointless replying.
Like you, though, I felt I had to.
Unfortuately we could go unbeaten for 20 games, lose a couple and this chap would want him out. He can't win with these narrow minded few.
I reckon 99.9% of us would take this start given what happened last season.
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We're one point better off from last season's equivalent fixtures. Considering all of last season's travails I would therefore say an average start based on results alone.
The plus side is that the defence seems to be more secure. Whisper it quietly, but I can't see us conceding six any time soon.
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McLeish said this was to be a season of 'steady improvement'. What I think he meant is that he wants points on the board and a platform to build from. I think we are looking for around 30 points by xmas so that relegation won't be an over-riding issue.
I think we'll be seeing similar team selection until then, i.e. putting the onus on the experienced players and blooding the youngsters by ones and twos in the league. A system that seems to be paying off thus far, Delph is settling nicely, Herd looked really good yesterday, Albrighton has been bright in his cameos as has Bannan.
By Xmas McLeish will have a better idea of his squad depth and the positions that really need strengthening or those that can be filled by the youngsters.
No action in the market until then except Hutton from Spuds.
Slow and steady wins the race in this new world of fiscal prudence. I'm much more content than I thought I would be and am looking forward with some hope to the rest of the season. 6.5/10
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Slow and steady wins the race in this new world of fiscal prudence.
It doesn't though does it. In the Premier League slow and steady wins you absolutely nothing.
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Slow and steady wins the race in this new world of fiscal prudence.
It doesn't though does it. In the Premier League slow and steady wins you absolutely nothing.
Also, there isn't really a new world of fiscal prudence in the Premier League apart from the one at Villa Park.
And Everton I suppose.
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Alex mac start is as it is and as table shows.
All our strikers have scored and we have kept two clean sheets.
We have made a good start as table suggests.
More tests still to come.
The transfer window.
Injuries
and pressure games
looking forward to each and evry game
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Strong username
And spelt wrong.
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Good start. 3 games, 2 clean sheets. Dunne & Collins looking like new players. Sadly Warnock isn't.
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I was there yesterday and I found myself thinking this must have been like watching Birmingham at St Andrews for the last two or three years.
This may have been something to do with sitting in a ground that looked half empty but it was an overall impression that the team were huffing and puffing without any real conviction and sneaking a one nil was the best we could hope for.
All a bit unfair on McLeish but he's now a symbol of the way the club is realigning itself to general mediocrity and survival.
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putting 3 strikers on the pitch with one of them wide left and the other in midfield, is not playing with 3 strikers...
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It's still way of what he installed at blues though, I know calling Heskey a striker at any level is a bit of a stretch, but your talking about the formation, they are all three classed as strikers, there to try and score goals as the main priority,
Personally I was expecting a far more rigid and defensive tactics, I admit my expectations of football were very low under AM, so although I don't think he's become a football purist,
I have been pleasantly supprised so far, at least he puts the personal out to try and
win the game,
The standard of football so far is no better or worse than GH or MON and I thought it would be, although that's not saying to much
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Dont know what happened to the quote above, it all went wrong somewhere
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Would have been B+ if we'd beaten wolves, so C- but then factor in the financial restrictions he's operating under so C+
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while we are unbeaten against some pretty uninspiring opponents, its been appalling on the football front and i dont see that changing anytime soon...
Appalling? You really, truely think we've been appalling?
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6 nill against Newcastle is appalling, not an unbeaten start to the league
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while we are unbeaten against some pretty uninspiring opponents, its been appalling on the football front and i dont see that changing anytime soon...
Appalling? You really, truely think we've been appalling?
I think he's talking out his arse.
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Too defensive at home. Spoke to the father in law this morning whose a nose and told him about the complaints on here and he laughed and said although they went down the general feeling they have is that it's a breath of fresh air the football they have been playing so far compared to the last few years and have even been enjoying chanting 4-4-2.
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Too defensive at home. Spoke to the father in law this morning whose a nose and told him about the complaints on here and he laughed and said although they went down the general feeling they have is that it's a breath of fresh air the football they have been playing so far compared to the last few years and have even been enjoying chanting 4-4-2.
Oh aye, getting swatted by Boro in the Mickey Mouse league is just what they all want.
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Too early to judge, although he does at least seem to have a plan, unlike Houllier. Most outsiders who saw the tit heads protesting at the appointment with think he may be up against it due to those circumstances. In my eyes though it's the opposite, he will get less critisism from me than under normal circumstances because the board have decided to cull the squad in terms of quality and quantity, so i'm expecting very little at the moment. Therefore, if we do shit as i expect i would not necessarilly point the blame at him, unless we end up in the relegation zone, which would be underachieving even with what he has.
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We are a bit negative. I felt that McLeish reacted to Mick McCarthy's substitutions yesterday rather than go on and try to win the game. Anyone who thinks Emile Heskey is capable of playing behind the main striker is a sandwich short of a picnic.
That said, if he can bring in a couple of players in order to play square pegs in square holes then perhaps the formation will work a whole lot better. If we are not winning games, it's very important that we are not losing them either. The start is very average.
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I certainly believe there is an element of our support who appear eager for us to lose our first game so the real remonstrations against him can commence. There was an element of that pent up feeling yesterday around me.
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Slow and steady wins the race in this new world of fiscal prudence.
It doesn't though does it. In the Premier League slow and steady wins you absolutely nothing.
Also, there isn't really a new world of fiscal prudence in the Premier League apart from the one at Villa Park.
And Everton I suppose.
It's the one at VP I was reffering to, hence why I posted that on H+V.
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Losing your two best players would be a challenge for any manager so I think it's difficult under those circumstances to assess his impact as were having to find a new way of playing. The defence appears to be much more tighter which is probably a combination of his methods and the players rediscovering their form.
Ask me again at Christmas.
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6 nill against Newcastle is appalling, not an unbeaten start to the league
Or four nil at home to Man City after an hour.
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I like McLeish. It's not his fault we are downsizing in every sense of the word. He was brave enough to come to us and accept a very tough job. Like Clark W there I will give McLeish a lot of leeway this year. My gripes are with the board.
Trimming is all well and good but you can't go from one extreme to the other. I would like to see them develop a sustainable platform with more realistic wages etc. Raising the guts of £40m in transfer fees by selling your best players and clearing out the deadwood should result in re-investment but it hasn't. When we sold Yorke we re-invested in a clever way. Likewise when we lost Southgate & Ehiogu. What's happening at the club is setting us back years. We have become a coping team that will be slotting players like Herd in at right back and Heskey in at central midfield and for that I don't blame the manager but rather the board.
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6 nill against Newcastle is appalling, not an unbeaten start to the league
Or four nil at home to Man City after an hour.
Spurs are on their way to Oakwell...
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Making the defence strong again will serve us really well this season. There were a lot of games last year, despite the problems off the pitch that would have been won had we just defended better. This will be a season of us becoming hard to beat again. The hope is as it progresses the attacking side of it begins to come together and we become a more solid outfit all round. This team needed some discipline and that had to be the first task for McLeish.
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I might be wrong, but I can't remember any new manager apart from Gez coming in and not making getting the defence right his first priority.
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I might be wrong, but I can't remember any new manager apart from Gez coming in and not making getting the defence right his first priority.
we needed to get back to that, and I'm glad we have. The test will be the transition game and how we find ways of creating chances for the forwards. One thing MON made us great at was playing on the break, and Ash was a massive piece of that. We'll need to resdiscover how to do that.
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while we are unbeaten against some pretty uninspiring opponents, its been appalling on the football front and i dont see that changing anytime soon...
Appalling? You really, truely think we've been appalling?
i do...
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putting 3 strikers on the pitch with one of them wide left and the other in midfield, is not playing with 3 strikers...
It's still way of what he installed at blues though, I know calling Heskey a striker at any level is a bit of a stretch, but your talking about the formation, they are all three classed as strikers, there to try and score goals as the main priority,
Personally I was expecting a far more rigid and defensive tactics, I admit my expectations of football were very low under AM, so although I don't think he's become a football purist, I have been pleasantly supprised so far, at least he puts the personal out to try and win the game.
The standard of football so far is no better or worse than GH or MON and I thought it would be, although that's not saying to much
indeed... and as you said, thats not saying much...
herd is a midfielder and he was used as a right back... that doesnt mean we played 3-4-3...
i just think mcleish is dressing up his defensive minded 9 men behind behind the ball while booting it up to the lone front man by putting agbonlahor wide left (when he previously said he wouldnt), and heskey wherever he is meant to be playing, so it looks like we are playing with 3 strikers...
the fact that agbonlahor isnt a left winger and heskey isnt a footballer, doesnt appear to matter as we fail to create anything of real note for a the best striker we have had in years...
it is still a rigid defensive minded 4-5-1 with two holding midfielders sitting in front of the back four, and i havent really seen anything else to suggest we have done anything to change that...
in my humble opinion...
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while we are unbeaten against some pretty uninspiring opponents, its been appalling on the football front and i dont see that changing anytime soon...
Appalling? You really, truely think we've been appalling?
I think he's talking out his arse.
youre entitled to think that, as i am entitled to my opinion...
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I'm happy that we look solid and don't look like giving much away. Attacking needs to be better.
We need to sacrifice one of Heskey or Agbonlahor (okay, Heskey) to really accomodate N'Zogbia better, because playing 3 front men, then trying to fit Charles in, isn't getting the best of him, and leaves us looking disjointed in midfield. Creatively we need Bannan or Ireland in there.
I do kind of see why Heskey has been played, because of his physical presence and his workrate. We got overrun too easily last season and our midfield lacks a physical force with Coker gone, so yeah, call it negative or wary, but McLeish has played it a little safe. However we look tight enough we could sacrifice Heskeys presence for some creativity. Whether Ireland and Bannan are good enough or reliable enough, is another matter.
I'm not too disappointed in truth. Wolves are a well organised side. They won't struggle this year IMO. Fulham away was a solid point too, whilst we made light work of Blackburn. Not 3 top sides granted, but I'd fancy we'll be tough to beat for better teams, and we'll be able to play a more counter attack minded game and pick up more points.
I'd put us somewhere between average and good, and that I'd have taken when Big Eck was appointed and our two best midfield players left.
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I looked at the team yesterday and thought of our attacking 5 of Heskey, N'Zog, Bent, Gabby and Delph as being a very good combination of pace, strength, guile and goals (finishing). I could see how that would work. The defensive 5 filled me with dread, Collins, Dunne, Herd, Warnock and Petrov. What transpired on the pitch was the opposite, with a solid hardworking defensive display (apart from a flashback to last season when the little bloke won the header at the far post when Collins was in no mans land and Warnock nowhere to be seen) and a disjointed, lethargic attack. Hopefully he can get it right overall, but i still think we need a couple of additions to the defensive 5 as we will get hammered against the decent teams.
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Slow and steady wins the race in this new world of fiscal prudence.
It doesn't though does it. In the Premier League slow and steady wins you absolutely nothing.
Also, there isn't really a new world of fiscal prudence in the Premier League apart from the one at Villa Park.
And Everton I suppose.
It's the one at VP I was reffering to, hence why I posted that on H+V.
So if it's only the 'new world of fiscal prudence' at Villa Park that you're referring to, which race are you envisioning us winning?
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It's a good start. His first job was to shore up the defence, and he has done that. In the beginning, it will come at the cost of some uninspiring 0-0 draws, I think we'll have to accept that. The question is whether McLeish will be able to build on this, or if every team that aren't obvious relegation candidates (like Blackburn) will continue to find that stifling us is embarrassingly easy.
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Slow and steady wins the race in this new world of fiscal prudence.
It doesn't though does it. In the Premier League slow and steady wins you absolutely nothing.
Also, there isn't really a new world of fiscal prudence in the Premier League apart from the one at Villa Park.
And Everton I suppose.
It's the one at VP I was reffering to, hence why I posted that on H+V.
So if it's only the 'new world of fiscal prudence' at Villa Park that you're referring to, which race are you envisioning us winning?
Fuck me who's pissed on your chips?? All I was trying to say is the way that McLeish is coping with a difficult situation is impressive. He hasn't thrown all the kids into the side and watched them sink or swim, he's using them alongside the experienced players and not asking them to play 90 mins.
Now let that bug out of your ass before it suffocates.
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McLeish doesn't really have a great deal od choice than to bung in one or two of the kids. The board keep selling his more experienced players? I hope he is being consulted on who leaves.
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Slow and steady wins the race in this new world of fiscal prudence.
It doesn't though does it. In the Premier League slow and steady wins you absolutely nothing.
Also, there isn't really a new world of fiscal prudence in the Premier League apart from the one at Villa Park.
And Everton I suppose.
It's the one at VP I was reffering to, hence why I posted that on H+V.
So if it's only the 'new world of fiscal prudence' at Villa Park that you're referring to, which race are you envisioning us winning?
Fuck me who's pissed on your chips?? All I was trying to say is the way that McLeish is coping with a difficult situation is impressive. He hasn't thrown all the kids into the side and watched them sink or swim, he's using them alongside the experienced players and not asking them to play 90 mins.
Now let that bug out of your ass before it suffocates.
It's not rocket science really. If your limited with your options, choices are easy to make. At this moment in time almost all on this forum could manage Villa. The team picks itself, always makes me laugh when people put formations out of who will play where. The size of our squad, and the quality of player doesn't exactly cause a conundrum. Hence the excitement of a new name or the hope of a rising star within the academy. It's quite sad really that we all support the Villa and yet we can clearly see or witness the missed opportunities that we've had. Will always support them, but it's only on hindsight that you recognize what could have been ie( allowing 82 to dwindle away)
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The point I would make is that we have conceded one goal in four games and whilst we havn't played the cream of the PL in any of those games, that sort of defending always gives you a chance. If the Herd or Bent headers had gone in we would have been looking at a very good start.
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Under par - I'd have expected 7 points from the easy opening run, and to have beaten Hereford more convincingly.
Not a disaster, but nothing any competent manager couldn't have matched.
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Slow and steady but I think we will have to get used to it.
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Saturday told you everything, we had them under the cosh for 25 mins in the second half, Heskey had stopped and petrov was flagging, so he leaves Heskey on and puts Bannnan on the wing. Wolves made 2 subs and they finished stronger. Bannan for Heskey was so bloody obvious. The game was for the taking.
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Bannan for Heskey and the probabilty that we conceded on one of Wolves corners in the dying minutes would have increased. I wouldn't have been surprised if that was a consideration that played part in AM's decision.
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Bannan for Heskey and the probabilty that we conceded on one of Wolves corners in the dying minutes would have increased. I wouldn't have been surprised if that was a consideration that played part in AM's decision.
Scoring goals is also a good idea.
So we keep Heskey on as an auxilary defender, are you Alex Mcleish
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I quite like Heskey, but it seemed obvious to me he was fucked with half an hour to go. He'd played well up to then but I reckon it was because he was fucked that he made such a clumsy challenge that led to their late freekick, which I was convinced they were going to score from.
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Is he really our Manager?
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Garbage start.
Against Wolves in the second half it looked like they were at home.
0-0 at home against a team that will be in the bottom six in a couple of weeks time until the rest of the saeson is ...garbage.
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Garbage start.
Against Wolves in the second half it looked like they were at home.
0-0 at home against a team that will be in the bottom six in a couple of weeks time until the rest of the saeson is ...garbage.
They didn't get out of their half until about 75 minutes.
Some of the shite posted on this board is beyond ridiculous at times, I'm worried that the general concentration of fuckwittery is increasing to unsustainable levels.
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Garbage start.
Against Wolves in the second half it looked like they were at home.
0-0 at home against a team that will be in the bottom six in a couple of weeks time until the rest of the saeson is ...garbage.
They didn't get out of their half until about 75 minutes.
Some of the shite posted on this board is beyond ridiculous at times, I'm worried that the general concentration of fuckwittery is increasing to unsustainable levels.
Indeed and well said. I'm no happy clapper and have some serious concerns about the current direction of the club but even I could see we were probably unlucky not too win. It's early days, we're not a top 6 club at the moment so let's stop expecting miracles.
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Garbage start.
Against Wolves in the second half it looked like they were at home.
0-0 at home against a team that will be in the bottom six in a couple of weeks time until the rest of the saeson is ...garbage.
They didn't get out of their half until about 75 minutes.
Some of the shite posted on this board is beyond ridiculous at times, I'm worried that the general concentration of fuckwittery is increasing to unsustainable levels.
I agree entirely. Somebody has clearly poured water on them or fed them after midnight, because the exponential increase in people talking total bollocks is staggering.
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06/11/2010 15:00 A Fulham FC Fulham FC 1:1
26/02/2011 15:00 H Blackburn Rovers 4:1
19/03/2011 15:00 H Wolverhampton Wanderers 0:1
F A pts
5 3 4
This season:
F A Pts
3 1 5
Is an improvement.
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its an OK start by an OK manager with an OK team
all in all it will be an OK season
nothing more, nothing less
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I think the general quality in the prem is not as good this season, by that o mean teams like Wigan, Stoke, Wolves etc are all a bit stronger and can compete,
In my view, apart from Man u Man c and Chelsea, everyone else is capable of beating everyone else, the gap is closer than it's ever been,
This was much the case last season when the bottom 10 were looking over there shoulder right to the end, not a lot of points separating them, I think it's even closer this time round.
So when we expect to turn certain teams over at home
(although we haven't done it for years) It's
Much tighter, and more difficult to do, however we can also expect to pick up more points from unexpected places as well
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It's been an ok start, I feel sorry for Mcleish to be honest.
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I think Heskey at home though, is not what is required when the onus is on us to dictate the tempo of the game.
I said something very similar on the post match thread. Despite Heskey doing well, it's the overall balance of the team that's not right and with Bannan currently very confident, he deserves his chance. He'll most certainly find a ball or two through to Bent which is something the team are just not supplying. If McLeish wants to be more defensive away from home, then fine but at Villa Park we need to be more brave. A good measurement for our performances at home, is ask after the game whether you'd expect all the fans there to want to return in a fortnight? After the Blackburn game I'd have said absolutely "yes" but the Wolves game, despite our great 20 minute spell, you'd find it difficult to get excited about returning.
Still too early to judge McLeish but I do see Saturday as two points unnecessarily dropped. Wolves, though much improved, were there for the taking. We just didn't have the belief to go for it.
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My concern with Mcleish was his negative football and Saturday proved the point, if you cant make a positive change to the side when one of your attacking players is on his knees and you have penned a very ordinary team in their own half for 25 minutes then when are you goint to.
This is the same bloke that didnt give Phillips enough time on the pitch which last season and they got relegated.
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How do you pen a team into there own half for 25 minuets playing negative football ?
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A solid start and hes got the defence much better sorted, still some tinkering to be done i feel in the attacking midfielder role but we will be harder to beat this season and if we can create a few more chances then im sure bent will deliver goals.
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I actually thought we had a very decent amount of possession on Saturday
The problem was, we didn't do very much with it. Mind you, that was a recurring problem last season as well, so it seems a bit over optimistic to expect AM to have fixed it this quickly.
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Solid start. Needs to be brave and play Bannan from the start - that kid is a player.
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Below....................
You would expect any new manager to enjoy a honeymoon kind of impact period at the start of his tenure, when players want to impress and stake the claim for a place, I personally haven't seen any evidence of that, poor performance v Fulham, we got a win out of a team that would just about survive League 1 and Wolves.
These is a dream fixture start for a team like Villa, times will get tougher and i can see nothing that makes me believe we will stay the pace, also and very important that performance v Wolves was one of the most lack lustre Villa performances I've seen from a Villa side since the O'Dreary days, and one of the most boring games of football.
Conclusion...................Below par start.
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These is a dream fixture start for a team like Villa, times will get tougher and i can see nothing that makes me believe we will stay the pace, also and very important that performance v Wolves was one of the most lack lustre Villa performances I've seen from a Villa side since the O'Dreary days, and one of the most boring games of football.
Where have you been these last five years?
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Garbage start.
Against Wolves in the second half it looked like they were at home.
0-0 at home against a team that will be in the bottom six in a couple of weeks time until the rest of the saeson is ...garbage.
They didn't get out of their half until about 75 minutes.
Some of the shite posted on this board is beyond ridiculous at times, I'm worried that the general concentration of fuckwittery is increasing to unsustainable levels.
I agree entirely. Somebody has clearly poured water on them or fed them after midnight, because the exponential increase in people talking total bollocks is staggering.
Indeed. It is quite staggering. Especially when a few of them are previously sensible posters.
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on around 35 sec
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Love the reaction, that's what I did when I thought it was joke!
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It's not been a garbage start, nor has it been a nightmare or even particularly below par. It's just so listless, so uninspiring, so frustrating, and the manager hasn't helped it with his playing of Heskey where our major creative player should go, forcing the whole style into something approaching numbing boredom. It's not terrible, we won't get relegated, but we won't pull up any trees either, and not just in the sense of our final league table position.
Last season almost nobody in the league was sad to see Blues go down, and while, like I've said, we won't go down, we'll be nobody's second team this year, shall we say. This is an unnecessary state of affairs as, although we'd probably lose more games playing more expansively, we'd as likely win more as well, and while it's three points for a win and one for a draw that will be a good strategy. However, the manager seems to feel that we should not only pay for the privelige of mediocrity, but that said mediocrity should be drudgingly achieved. I hope he changes, I hope he expands our game and plays creative players who might make a mediocre season worth watching, but I have doubts as to whether he will.
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I didn't hear too many complaints after the Blackburn game, Monty. Three games and admittedly the Wolves game was no end-to-end local derby ding dong but let's put the wigs, false bosoms and heavy make up away for a week or two.
In my mind, to date, McLeish has only really made one mistake and that's not playing Bannan in the advanced midfield role. Get that right and whisper it but we could have the most entertaining and points at Villa Park in a very long time.
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I didn't hear too many complaints after the Blackburn game, Monty. Three games and admittedly the Wolves game was no end-to-end local derby ding dong but let's put the wigs, false bosoms and heavy make up away for a week or two.
In my mind, to date, McLeish has only really made one mistake and that's not playing Bannan in the advanced midfield role. Get that right and whisper it but we could have the most entertaining and points at Villa Park in a very long time.
Very true, but I think the fact that he doesn't do it but plays Heskey in that role could be taken as indicative. Like I say, I hope not, but there is certainly a listless feeling around the club at the mo.
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Cracking programme on 5Live tonight about the perfect number 10 and rather sums up the current debate we're having on Heskey vs Bannan/Ireland.
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Cracking programme on 5Live tonight about the perfect number 10 and rather sums up the current debate we're having on Heskey vs Bannan/Ireland.
The perfect number 10? Teddy Sheringham.
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Cracking programme on 5Live tonight about the perfect number 10 and rather sums up the current debate we're having on Heskey vs Bannan/Ireland.
I was thinking just that. Also, surprise surprise nobody's mentioned Sid.
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Cracking programme on 5Live tonight about the perfect number 10 and rather sums up the current debate we're having on Heskey vs Bannan/Ireland.
I was thinking just that. Also, surprise surprise nobody's mentioned Sid.
I nearly texted it in but couldnt be arsed. Great programme from 5live, they should get Richard Williams on more often, instead they give airtime to utter fuckwits like Gobby Cabbage and Alan Green.
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Cracking programme on 5Live tonight about the perfect number 10 and rather sums up the current debate we're having on Heskey vs Bannan/Ireland.
I was thinking just that. Also, surprise surprise nobody's mentioned Sid.
I nearly texted it in but couldnt be arsed. Great programme from 5live, they should get Richard Williams on more often, instead they give airtime to utter fuckwits like Gobby Cabbage and Alan Green.
Agree with that, even though Williams can be a really annoying right-on sort of guy sometimes.
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I didn't hear too many complaints after the Blackburn game, Monty. Three games and admittedly the Wolves game was no end-to-end local derby ding dong but let's put the wigs, false bosoms and heavy make up away for a week or two.
In my mind, to date, McLeish has only really made one mistake and that's not playing Bannan in the advanced midfield role. Get that right and whisper it but we could have the most entertaining and points at Villa Park in a very long time.
Very true, but I think the fact that he doesn't do it but plays Heskey in that role could be taken as indicative. Like I say, I hope not, but there is certainly a listless feeling around the club at the mo.
The main problem I'm worried about, is that this is supposed to be the easy start where we could fill our boots until we hit the big guns. Yet, as you say, it just seems a bit listless.
The manager is not really starting with alternative line ups (Why can't Albrighton start?), which means he don't like/trust anyone else at the moment. (The point has already been made hundreds of times already, that we have started with 3 strikers on the pitch in 3 games, and only scored in one of them). This will cause problems when injuries kick in.
The team still feels like it's a patched up before our big names come back. Obviously we have no big names to come back from injury, suspension, or well, anywhere.
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As I said on the post match thread I came away from the Wolves game feeling very old and very tired.
Setting aside all the issues of points won and lost, substitutions good, bad and incomprehensible, defence tweaking, offence creaking, I have seen all three games and they have all been excruciatingly dull meat and two soggy veg offerings.
Two big red lights should have started flashing for Alex McLeish last Saturday - the size of the crowd and the pissed off expression on Darren Bent's face at the wild shooting and bad service from those around him getting rushes of glory pangs.
If the crowds slide away it will not matter a monkey's whether we are ninth or twelfth and if Darren Bent says he wants away the policy of retrenchment will immediately become a policy of damage limitation and survival.
Whether Alex McLeish can or cannot play attractive attacking football, whether he knows how to play attractive attacking football or whether the board provide him with the funds to acquire players of attractive attacking football the club will be locked into a downward spiral if the gates fall away and the best players continue to leave. He has no choice. The entertainment value of the games in which we play has to be improved.
We cannot afford the luxury of safety first football. It is like thinking the slower you ride your bike the less likely you are to fall off. The financial structure of football is such that the damage you sustain by excessive caution is greater than the damage you sustain by excessive ambition.
We have seen in the last two days the chickens come home to roost big time for Arsene Wenger. He is paying the entirely predictable price of excessive caution. Of course rash expenditure can destroy a club but the notion that Premiership security can be achieved while simultaneously slashing expenditure is false.
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Cracking programme on 5Live tonight about the perfect number 10 and rather sums up the current debate we're having on Heskey vs Bannan/Ireland.
I was thinking just that. Also, surprise surprise nobody's mentioned Sid.
I nearly texted it in but couldnt be arsed. Great programme from 5live, they should get Richard Williams on more often, instead they give airtime to utter fuckwits like Gobby Cabbage and Alan Green.
Agree with that, even though Williams can be a really annoying right-on sort of guy sometimes.
Well he does work for the Guardian. ;-) However I'd rather that over the utter banality and lowest common denominator output 5live seem to think they need to come out with to compete with the utter abomination that is Talkshite. As Pat Nevin said there is plenty of room for educated and intelligent debate about Football without talking down to fans. I still can't believe that erudite fans are not given more of a punditry role within the media rather than the tired ex pro's who invariably have a brain the size of a pea.
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As I said on the post match thread I came away from the Wolves game feeling very old and very tired.
Setting aside all the issues of points won and lost, substitutions good, bad and incomprehensible, defence tweaking, offence creaking, I have seen all three games and they have all been excruciatingly dull meat and two soggy veg offerings.
Two big red lights should have started flashing for Alex McLeish last Saturday - the size of the crowd and the pissed off expression on Darren Bent's face at the wild shooting and bad service from those around him getting rushes of glory pangs.
If the crowds slide away it will not matter a monkey's whether we are ninth or twelfth and if Darren Bent says he wants away the policy of retrenchment will immediately become a policy of damage limitation and survival.
Whether Alex McLeish can or cannot play attractive attacking football, whether he knows how to play attractive attacking football or whether the board provide him with the funds to acquire players of attractive attacking football the club will be locked into a downward spiral if the gates fall away and the best players continue to leave. He has no choice. The entertainment value of the games in which we play has to be improved.
We cannot afford the luxury of safety first football. It is like thinking the slower you ride your bike the less likely you are to fall off. The financial structure of football is such that the damage you sustain by excessive caution is greater than the damage you sustain by excessive ambition.
We have seen in the last two days the chickens come home to roost big time for Arsene Wenger. He is paying the entirely predictable price of excessive caution. Of course rash expenditure can destroy a club but the notion that Premiership security can be achieved while simultaneously slashing expenditure is false.
I must admit Brian some of your pre and early season ramblings I haven't agreed with one tiny bit but you strike a chord with me here. In realising we have to cut our cloth accordingly I hope the board realise this needs to be done in a way which means McLeish has room to manouevre and not scrabbling around for a foothold in the division.
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Cracking programme on 5Live tonight about the perfect number 10 and rather sums up the current debate we're having on Heskey vs Bannan/Ireland.
I was thinking just that. Also, surprise surprise nobody's mentioned Sid.
I nearly texted it in but couldnt be arsed. Great programme from 5live, they should get Richard Williams on more often, instead they give airtime to utter fuckwits like Gobby Cabbage and Alan Green.
Agree with that, even though Williams can be a really annoying right-on sort of guy sometimes.
Well he does work for the Guardian. ;-) However I'd rather that over the utter banality and lowest common denominator output 5live seem to think they need to come out with to compete with the utter abomination that is Talkshite. As Pat Nevin said there is plenty of room for educated and intelligent debate about Football without talking down to fans. I still can't believe that erudite fans are not given more of a punditry role within the media rather than the tired ex pro's who invariably have a brain the size of a pea.
At the risk of going wildly off topic, I completely agree. I thought that a lot of their discussion missed the point, but at least they were having the discussion, and not being shy of tackling the slightly more uncomfortable to discuss aspects (such as the blame that fans must share for styles of football). As one french football writer whose name I've forgotten said, just as being a great player doesn't make you a great coach it also doesn't make you a great pundit.
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I still can't believe that erudite fans are not given more of a punditry role within the media rather than the tired ex pro's who invariably have a brain the size of a pea.
There was a time when we were starting to be involved. Then the cult of celebrity took over and everyone talking about football now has to be an ex-player with the supporter input coming from reading blogs and confusing one man's obsessions with the opinions of teh majority.
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I don't ramble. I reflect in print.
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I don't ramble. I reflect in print.
Apologies brian, I in no way wished to "dis" your enjoyable and erudite reflections even if I do disagree with some of them.
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I still can't believe that erudite fans are not given more of a punditry role within the media rather than the tired ex pro's who invariably have a brain the size of a pea.
There was a time when we were starting to be involved. Then the cult of celebrity took over and everyone talking about football now has to be an ex-player with the supporter input coming from reading blogs and confusing one man's obsessions with the opinions of teh majority.
The celebrity football pundit problem, the great majority of them are inarticulate idiots who just spout the stuff they read in the Red Tops. There are plenty of football fans that have a far greater understanding of the game than these idiots. Football though only recruits from within, look at the leadership quality and inteligence of most football managers. They would not be given the job of running a minor section in most businesses but are given millions of pounds of resources in football.