Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on August 04, 2011, 10:40:49 PM
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Will run the poll again on Aug 31st, after the couple of games, and the rest of the transfer window is up.
Kept distinct from the predictions thread as we can see at a glance where the general opinion lies re us.
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An optimistic 8th.
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An optimistic 8th.
Same here.
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Unlucky for some. 13th. No bite. Too much reliance on shots in the dark.
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8th at best and I think I'm being ambitious at that.
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Crikey.
Does someone really think we'll finish 19th?
I mean, I think we're going to struggle big style, but second bottom?
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Crikey.
Does someone really think we'll finish 19th?
I mean, I think we're going to struggle big style, but second bottom?
Risso must have voted then.
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11th. Creativity will be a problem with a huge reliance on Bent and The Zog. Lots of question marks over players in key positions. Hope I'm wrong and Alex M can get the best out of the 2nd chancers like he did with some of the tat when he was down the road.
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Who's voted 19th haha
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7th. You can't put a value on a squad that is motivated as opposed to last year and all of the in-fighting. Add to that we gave away stupid goals and numerous leads, many late in the game. So despite everything off the field we could have had a lot more points. If we can tighten up at the back we'll become hard to beat. We need to develop some chemistry going forward and I think that will come. I don't think AM is done shopping and I still think he'll bring in 2 or 3 more including loans. I've gone for 7th, with a stronger 2nd half of the season than first half.
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I think about 9th - 12th
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Going to go for a slight improvement on last year and say 8th.
That is only if we stay injury free though ... squad is not strong enough to take to many "hits" this season, and I'm not sure the "kids" have what it takes! Hope I am wrong on that count though.
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7th for me. I'm surprised by some of the negativity.
I would interested to hear from anyone who thinks we'll finish in the bottom half regarding what teams outside the top 6 they think are better than ours?
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Given that Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool are almost guaranteed to finish above us I think we are looking at 7th at the absolutely most optomistic, as reflected so far in the poll. I think we will do well to finish above Everton too and Sunderland and QPR I reckon will both be in the top 10 with Bolton there or there abouts so a top half finish with the squad we have is very optomistic imo. I went for 10th a couple of weeks ago but after our pre-season and the seemingly stagnant transfer policy I'm going for 12th or 13th.
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I'll put money on QPR coming in the bottom 6.
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I'll put money on QPR coming in the bottom 6.
I'm very surprised by them.
Mega rich owners, promoted, you'd expect them to spend big, but it has been quite the opposite.
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I think Everton will finish above us but then we will be in a group of teams that are close together, Fulham, Bolton, WBA, Stoke and Sunderland.
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Our saving grace this season is that there are so many other shite teams that will be worse than us.
Going for a miserable 12th.
edit: slightly more realistic.
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
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Our saving grace this season is that there are so many other shite teams that will be worse than us.
Going for a miserable 14th.
you say so many, yet by suggesting 14th you're also there's only 6 teams worse. Doesn't make sense.
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The way I see it there are several groups.
Man U, Chelsea, Man City, Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal - top six
Us, Everton, Sunderland, Albion, Newcastle, Bolton, Blackburn, Fulham, Stoke, Wolves - the middle ten
Swansea, Norwich, QPR, Wigan - bottom four
Within that middle ten, I think we'll very likely finish behind Everton (better team), Sunderland (more squad depth), Fulham, Bolton and Stoke.
That puts us in 12th. However, I think we're also going to suffer because we have a few people currently pencilled in as "starters" who are far too random and unpredictable for my liking. it'd be nice to see Ireland get back on track, but he was rubbish at Man City for a year, came here, was mental and rubbish, went to Newcastle, was mental and rubbish, and came back here again. It's not really being pessimistic to suspect he might turn out to still be mental.
Warnock is one who, while not being mental, may be re-instated, but - lest we forget - was utterly shit for months on end before his flip-out.
Then we're depending on players like Delph (unknown quantity), Petrov (if he struggled to manage 60 minutes last season, how many will he manage this season?), and Dunne and Collins, one of whom managed to stay fat and half arsed almost the whole of last season, and the other managed to get into a fight with the coaching staff.
Far too much flimsiness and crossed fingers for my liking, and for that reason I reckon we'll struggle in our mini-league.
It beggars belief, really, to think that five years in, it has come to this. Such a shame.
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Pretty hard to judge really. If we have a bad start i reckon come january re-inforcements will be brought in either under AM or someone else so we could end up higher than this squad looks capable of. Without injuries and some players improving on last season i'd say 12th. To me it looks a very average side
God i'm good..
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Opted for 8th....., not sure whether that's an optimistic 8th mind...!!
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Who the fuck put us as champions? I want some of whatever he or she has been smoking!
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Our saving grace this season is that there are so many other shite teams that will be worse than us.
Going for a miserable 14th.
you say so many, yet by suggesting 14th you're also there's only 6 teams worse. Doesn't make sense.
Good point TV. Just spent all of 30 seconds doing a spreadsheet so make that a miserable 12th...8 teams shitter than us.
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I think 12th....but the truth is, finishing anywhere in the range 8th to 14th means another forgettable season.
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Pretty hard to judge really. If we have a bad start i reckon come january re-inforcements will be brought in either under AM or someone else so we could end up higher than this squad looks capable of. Without injuries and some players improving on last season i'd say 12th. To me it looks a very average side
That's the irony of it all.
If we do really poorly in the first half of the season, Randy will probably end up having to put his hand in his pocket big-style to dig us out of it (see last January) (although, having been told that was just the Milner money, it now transpires it was also the Ashley Young money).
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
I disagree with that. Despite a bollocks season, we should have won handily at Bolton who were doing well at the time, and gave away 3 leads against Fulham, and led at Albion before losing. Tighten those defensive displays I don't think those teams are as good as us.
I think there's an obvious 5 teams better than us. Liverpool have spent a lot of money, but they have to gel together. Pre-season's been horrendous for them, and if they don't get off to a good start there will be a lot of pressure on Kenny. Everton will start like shit as ever, and you have to think there's only so much Moyes can do with that squad without investment. He'll still find a way to challenge us for 7th. Bruce signed a lot of very average players at Sunderland. Fulham and Stoke will be distracted by the Europa, as will Spurs. It does take a toll on the domestic campaign.
I don't think things are as bad as some are making out. I certainly don't see any of the squads beyond Liverpool who I see as 6th best as that intimidating.
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
The most popular votes are seventh and eighth. That;s hardly a concensus sticking us with the three above.
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9th.
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we also have a bonafide top notch forward that will always get goals. None of the teams outside of the top 6 have one as good.
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
I disagree with that. Despite a bollocks season, we should have won handily at Bolton who were doing well at the time, and gave away 3 leads against Fulham, and led at Albion before losing. Tighten those defensive displays I don't think those teams are as good as us.
I think there's an obvious 5 teams better than us. Liverpool have spent a lot of money, but they have to gel together. Pre-season's been horrendous for them, and if they don't get off to a good start there will be a lot of pressure on Kenny. Everton will start like shit as ever, and you have to think there's only so much Moyes can do with that squad without investment. He'll still find a way to challenge us for 7th. Bruce signed a lot of very average players at Sunderland. Fulham and Stoke will be distracted by the Europa, as will Spurs. It does take a toll on the domestic campaign.
I don't think things are as bad as some are making out. I certainly don't see any of the squads beyond Liverpool who I see as 6th best as that intimidating.
We are back to the ifs, buts and hopefullys again though. We could finish 7th (I afterall went for 8th) but I doubt anyone here would be shocked if we finished below the sides I mentioned. That's what I mean by how we've fallen.
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Lets face it...our shocking defence last season needs tightening up, so if we assume thats going to be sorted then the real problem will be getting over run in midfield resulting in loss of possession and persistant pressure on the back four. Fixing the back four is all well and good, but they are going to have their work cut out to keep clean sheets and relying on Bent to nick a goal or two every game. I dont know whether I'm being a miserablist or realistic, but right now, its got the hallmarks of a very very long depressing season.
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
I disagree with that. Despite a bollocks season, we should have won handily at Bolton who were doing well at the time, and gave away 3 leads against Fulham, and led at Albion before losing. Tighten those defensive displays I don't think those teams are as good as us.
I think there's an obvious 5 teams better than us. Liverpool have spent a lot of money, but they have to gel together. Pre-season's been horrendous for them, and if they don't get off to a good start there will be a lot of pressure on Kenny. Everton will start like shit as ever, and you have to think there's only so much Moyes can do with that squad without investment. He'll still find a way to challenge us for 7th. Bruce signed a lot of very average players at Sunderland. Fulham and Stoke will be distracted by the Europa, as will Spurs. It does take a toll on the domestic campaign.
I don't think things are as bad as some are making out. I certainly don't see any of the squads beyond Liverpool who I see as 6th best as that intimidating.
We are back to the ifs, buts and hopefullys again though. We could finish 7th (I afterall went for 8th) but I doubt anyone here would be shocked if we finished below the sides I mentioned. That's what I mean by how we've fallen.
Ifs and buts work both ways. I just don't see how the squads at Fulham, Bolton or Albion are better or deeper than us.
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
The most popular votes are seventh and eighth. That;s hardly a concensus sticking us with the three above.
No offense, but if you look at the total number of votes in the poll, there is nothing like enough to start drawing conclusions like that - or any other. You need at least 100 votes before you can look for trends. And 500 would be more like it.
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
The most popular votes are seventh and eighth. That;s hardly a concensus sticking us with the three above.
With 3rd and 4th most popular being 11th and 14th, both 1 vote behind 7th place. Which does.
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Ifs and buts work both ways. I just don't see how the squads at Fulham, Bolton or Albion are better or deeper than us.
Fulham, Bolton and Albion first XI may not be quite as good on paper but they can change their crap with more crap...the real question is whether or not their crap is better than our crap? Another factor to throw into the equation is hard work, attitude and desire to win...what their crap lacks in talent, is made up by those factors which I dont see in great abundance in our crap. Hope thats makes sense! :D
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With 3rd and 4th most popular being 11th and 14th, both 1 vote behind 7th place. Which does.
Which is more evidence that at this stage the poll results are statistically meaningless.
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Pretty hard to judge really. If we have a bad start i reckon come january re-inforcements will be brought in either under AM or someone else so we could end up higher than this squad looks capable of. Without injuries and some players improving on last season i'd say 12th. To me it looks a very average side
That's the irony of it all.
If we do really poorly in the first half of the season, Randy will probably end up having to put his hand in his pocket big-style to dig us out of it (see last January) (although, having been told that was just the Milner money, it now transpires it was also the Ashley Young money).
Yeah. to be honest looking at the poll results so far, most of the predictions could be on. We could surprise everyone with a blend of youngsters and an unmental ireland and finish 7th, or we could start really badly, carry on from last season and find there's no money from Randy in Jan and barely stay up. My guess of 12th is probably an average based on some things going right and some wrong.
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Ifs and buts work both ways. I just don't see how the squads at Fulham, Bolton or Albion are better or deeper than us.
Fulham, Bolton and Albion first XI may not be quite as good on paper but they can change their crap with more crap...the real question is whether or not their crap is better than our crap? Another factor to throw into the equation is hard work, attitude and desire to win...what their crap lacks in talent, is made up by those factors which I dont see in great abundance in our crap. Hope thats makes sense! :D
???
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Ifs and buts work both ways. I just don't see how the squads at Fulham, Bolton or Albion are better or deeper than us.
Of course they work both ways, I mentioned on another thread that if Ireland, Makoun and Delph do come good, we could have some great stuff to watch.
The other clubs though don't have so many ifs and buts as we do. They may not be as strong on paper as us, but they are probably a lot more settled and performances will be more predictable than we are right now.
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these polls are all very emotional. Had we run this after the Blackburn game, and having signed N'Zogbia it would likely have looked a bit different to the one now having been beaten by Chelsea and Derby. I know paulie said at the start that he'll run this again at the end of the window. That's important because we will have started the season and the window will have shut. It will give us a better idea of what we are by then.
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
The most popular votes are seventh and eighth. That;s hardly a concensus sticking us with the three above.
With 3rd and 4th most popular being 11th and 14th, both 1 vote behind 7th place. Which does.
The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
The most popular votes are seventh and eighth. That;s hardly a concensus sticking us with the three above.
With 3rd and 4th most popular being 11th and 14th, both 1 vote behind 7th place. Which does.
If third and fourth makes a concensus, what does first and second make?
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Well as far as I know a consensus is a generally accepted opinion. So it could be argued 7th-8th (12 votes) is above those clubs I mentioned as they have the most individual votes. But 9th-16th (17 votes) puts us firmly in with them according to the majority of voters.
Aren't polls fun!
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If third and fourth makes a concensus, what does first and second make?
I gave you the answer to that above.
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Ifs and buts work both ways. I just don't see how the squads at Fulham, Bolton or Albion are better or deeper than us.
Of course they work both ways, I mentioned on another thread that if Ireland, Makoun and Delph do come good, we could have some great stuff to watch.
The other clubs though don't have so many ifs and buts as we do. They may not be as strong on paper as us, but they are probably a lot more settled and performances will be more predictable than we are right now.
I think in pre-season almost all teams have many ifs and buts. Not just us. Even Liverpool got hammered by Hull and Galatasary. They've got lots of ifs and buts given their level of investment.
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I voted 12th. As it stands we're very vulnerable to injuries, the inconsistency of youth and the barking mad Ireland. Given our net spend so far this summer I would sort of settle for that.
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Well as far as I know a consensus is a generally accepted opinion. So it could be argued 7th-8th (12 votes) is above those clubs I mentioned as they have the most individual votes. But 9th-16th (17 votes) puts us firmly in with them according to the majority of voters.
Aren't polls fun!
Not when they don't say what you want them to, no matter how hard you try. 1st-8th seems to be in the lead now. And the most popu
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Well as far as I know a consensus is a generally accepted opinion. So it could be argued 7th-8th (12 votes) is above those clubs I mentioned as they have the most individual votes. But 9th-16th (17 votes) puts us firmly in with them according to the majority of voters.
Aren't polls fun!
Not when they don't say what you want them to, no matter how hard you try. 1st-8th seems to be in the lead now. And the most popu
No they aren't, unless less votes wins. And they do say what i've said they say. You just choose to look at them differently, rather than the consensus of opinion. Or does consensus mean something different?
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I voted 12th. As it stands we're very vulnerable to injuries, the inconsistency of youth and the barking mad Ireland. Given our net spend so far this summer I would sort of settle for that.
As did I, i've been off for a few weeks and it looks like I haven't missed much.
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Yes, concensus means general agreement. But there is quite clearly not a concensus in this poll - the two most popular votes are seventh and eighth. How can you have a general agreement which ignores the most popular opinions?
You used a spread of eight places in your 'concensus'. An even bigger majority see us in a spread of seven places 5th-11th. So we're competing with Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester City
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Yes, concensus means general agreement. But there is quite clearly not a concensus in this poll - the two most popular votes are seventh and eighth. How can you have a general agreement which ignores the most popular opinions?
You used a spread of eight places in your 'concensus'. An even bigger majority see us in a spread of seven places 5th-11th. So we're competing with Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester City
As mentioned Dave, polls can be taken in many different ways.
I said the consensus was that we were in with the clubs I mentioned, most people have voted we will finish 9th-16th, which where I would imagine most of us would say the other clubs mentioned will finish. I never mentioned most popular single vote etc. But top 8 (where most of us would hope would be our minimum aim each season and the kind of position we have spent the majority of my time as a fan finishing) and lower than 8th seemed a logical split when I made my original post.
I'd also imagine that if the fan sites of the clubs I mentioned ran a similar thread, their votes would be a pretty similar breakdown. 7th or 8th if being optimistic and the club has a following wind, with 9th-16th being the popular vote.
Arsenal, Spurs, City, Liverpool sites would probably have 8th as the lowest, (Spurs and maybe pessimistic dippers), the rest will be various top 6 places.
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Yes, concensus means general agreement. But there is quite clearly not a concensus in this poll - the two most popular votes are seventh and eighth. How can you have a general agreement which ignores the most popular opinions?
I'd have thought the most informative info is where the votes are bunched.
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polls can be taken in many different ways.
Right now only 49 fans think we'll finish the season. That's worrying.
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I went for 11th in a moment of optimism.
I fear we will have another season like the last one.
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Given our generous first few games hopefully we'll get a few points on the board quickly and gain confidence required for the bigger tests as the nights draw in earlier.
McLeish will have the defence whipped into shape regardless of personnel. We should be fine upfront with Gabby back to full fitness, the Fonz knowing it's now or never and Bent obviously will keep banging them in as long as his head doesn't get turned again. Even Heskey might be useful now and then.
Midfield is the real unknown variable given that Delph, Ireland, Jean II and Bananaman have a lot to prove but I'm going to back them to come good and we'll finish 7th.
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I went for 11th in a moment of optimism.
I fear we will have another season like the last one.
Yep.
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battling with everton for 7th and 8th places.
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4th. Can't see why not.
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polls can be taken in many different ways.
Right now only 49 fans think we'll finish the season. That's worrying.
At least we stand a good chance of finishing the season - unlike you know who!
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7th.
People keep pointing to all of the "ifs" with the squad and then making their predictions as though none of them will come good. My guess is that we'll rediscover our defensive stability and that Bent's goals will give us a good chance in tight games. As things stand outside of the obvious candidates I don't see much to worry about . That could, of course, all change by the end of the window.
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Can the person who voted for first lend me some of their medicine please?
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There is some really, really optimistic views on here. After the fulham defeat a week tomorrow, I wonder how the mood will be.
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11th or 12th
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There is some really, really optimistic views on here. After the fulham defeat a week tomorrow, I wonder how the mood will be.
I'd say more like realistic. Even the neutral view of the bookmakers says our most likely finish is 8th and we're currently odds on for a top 10 finish. Would anyone seriously hand on heart swap our squad for the likes of Sunderland, Stoke or Fulham?
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I've gone for 10th place but I reckon anywhere between 10 and 14th place.
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I've voted for tenth, too, but similarly anywhere between 8th and 15th seems likely. Going on last season, there really isn't that much quality throughout the league really, so I'd say with a tightened up defense and a Darren Bent, we'll do alright.
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There is some really, really optimistic views on here. After the fulham defeat a week tomorrow, I wonder how the mood will be.
That's the problem isn't it, people over react to each result, win one we're brilliant lose one and we're shit.
Fulham is a togh opener because they've been playing competitive games for a few weeks but you'd have to be an idiot to use that one game as a pointer to the whole season.
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I've gone for 8th.Seventh isn't out of the question, just depends on how good Everton are.Reckon that points wise we'll be closer to 17th than 4th though.
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If our first 11 stays fit all season, between 7th-11th. If we get some injuries to key players between 13th-16th. That is with the squad as it is now, if the club realises we are short and gets in a couple of players that is subject to change.
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If our first 11 stays fit all season, between 7th-11th. If we get some injuries to key players between 13th-16th. That is with the squad as it is now, if the club realises we are short and gets in a couple of players that is subject to change.
I'm basing my prediction on the opinion that we aren't as strong as the top 6 and a fit Everton side is IMO on par with us.The injuries argument applies to every club in the division outside of the top 4.On the positive side I can't see many strikers outside of Manchester who'll out score Bent and in Given, we do have a top goalkeeper.Looking at the sides who'd expect to push us for 7th or 8th, there aren't many players i'd swap from the likes of Sunderland Stoke or Fulham.Personally i feel we're a lot better off than people are giving us credit for.
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I've gone for 11th. Our first X1 is pretty decent but we'll be exposed if we have three or four players unavailable at any one time.
Can't see us touching the top six, and then we'll be in that mix of clubs behind: Everton, Sunderland, Stoke, Fulham, Bolton, West Brom.
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15th unfortunately for me - long hard season (unless we get in a couple before the end of the window when i reserve the right to change my mind:-)
Too much reliance on Bent - if he breaks down we are screwed as there are no other goals in the squad - there is little or no creativity in midfield and we lack any bite there also - we will be overrun more often than not through the middle this season putting tons of pressure on the back four who will take all of the flack.
Worry for AM if we start poorly and for the general mood around the place - not got a good felling at all re what is happening about our club - get we need to balance wages v revenue, but frankly the squad we now is very ordinary and paper thin, want to believe but struggling!!
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I think we have as good a first team as any side outside the top 6, so that gets me to 7th. However, we do compare poorly when the overall squad is taken into account and one or two key injuries would impact us greatly. As such, I'd drop my prediction to 8th.
If we get top seasons out of Ireland and Albrighton, then I'd go one better and say 6th.
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13th for me, EXTREMELY disappointed by our transfer activity ( or lack of).
If Bent gets injured, where are the goals coming from ?
Midfield, very very weak too and it's been tweeted that we can't afford Joey Barton - we're in the West Brom, Sunderland, Fulham categary.
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I've gone for 8th on the optimistic hope that all the 'ifs' turn out to be positives.
Could we finish higher than that? It all depends on who else comes in before the window closes. And despite what has been said regarding bringing other players in I still think there will be a couple of new faces to consider, maybe not permanent signings but loans.
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9th
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Midfield, very very weak too and it's been tweeted that we can't afford Joey Barton - we're in the West Brom, Sunderland, Fulham categary.
*bangs head against the wall*
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Midfield, very very weak too and it's been tweeted that we can't afford Joey Barton - we're in the West Brom, Sunderland, Fulham categary.
*bangs head against the wall*
Brilliant, this is becoming rather bleak.
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I think we'll be quite Everton esq and finish 8th.
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I've gone for 10th. We're too weak in CM to get anywhere near top 6, which I think will be the same teams as last season, so we'll be battling round the middle with 'best of the rest' like Everton, Fulham, Olbiyun, Stoke and Sunderland. Yippee. No risk of going down - the 3 that came up will struggle, Wigan have got to go sooner or later, and the 'surprise package' for the drop will be Newcastle.
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I'd say Blackburn are one of the favourites for the drop this season.
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Midfield, very very weak too and it's been tweeted that we can't afford Joey Barton - we're in the West Brom, Sunderland, Fulham categary.
*bangs head against the wall*
Brilliant, this is becoming rather bleak.
Will somebody please tweet where we'll finish, so I can vote and put a big bet on?
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Midfield, very very weak too and it's been tweeted that we can't afford Joey Barton - we're in the West Brom, Sunderland, Fulham categary.
*bangs head against the wall*
Hope the wall's OK :)
Tweeted by Villabuzz - I'm newish to Twitter, is that a bollox Tweeting ?
Bottom line is, we're skint !
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There are 12 teams that I would consider worse off than us talent wise, and maybe Everton are on par. That all leads me to think that if we perform as expected we hit 8th. There is a lot of room to perform better or worse than that based on other factors but squad wise I think 8th is a safe bet.
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I'm in for a giddy 7th. Bent will fill his boots this season. And then move to Liverpool, obviously.
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On paper 8th is a safe bet but I just think we might be the surprise team this season.
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On paper 8th is a safe bet but I just think we might be the surprise team this season.
If Ireland and Albrighton fire, then we will be.
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On paper 8th is a safe bet but I just think we might be the surprise team this season.
And if Ireland wasn't so mental he's be normal
If Ireland and Albrighton fire, then we will be.
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I have gone for 8th, more in hope than belief.
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On paper 8th is a safe bet but I just think we might be the surprise team this season.
And if Ireland wasn't so mental he's be normal
If Ireland and Albrighton fire, then we will be.
Let's hope he's been taking his medication then!
I think we'll have a strong defence and a good keeper behind them. I think Bent will score goals. What I'm less confient on is the midfield, so if two of the players with question marks over their heads and that we NEED to come good do so, then I think we'll surprise a few people.
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10th.
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I went 8th as well!
Wasn't it the forbidden number in The Colour of Magic?
Don't see us having enough quality or strength in depth for any higher unless someone interesting arrives before the deadline or Ireland fulfills his potential (I doubt both personally).
Ironically this is the first season for many that I will be able to go to more than a handful of matches and I just hope the entertainment is higher than most I attended in the last 3 years.
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6th at very very best. 8th would be considered par and any lower than 10th would be unacceptable.
Our only hope of winning something is a cup and that hasn't changed since I can remember.
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My guess is 14th (assuming no new arrivals). The biggest cause for pessimism is that our central midfield is weak and will be overrun by too many PL teams. Also, I think we'll miss Downing and Young more than we want to admit. N'Zogbia is a decent addition, but I'm not sure he'll bed in immediately. Some youngsters may impress, but even the best of them will probably be inconsistent. Collins and Dunne's limitations will be exposed this season as well, unless McLeish plays a 8-man defence rather than a defence and a midfield. The cost of that is that Bent will be dropping into midfield in search of the ball, to the extent that fans will start asking if he has had coaching lessons from Emile Heskey.
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My guess is 14th (assuming no new arrivals). The biggest cause for pessimism is that our central midfield is weak and will be overrun by too many PL teams. Also, I think we'll miss Downing and Young more than we want to admit. N'Zogbia is a decent addition, but I'm not sure he'll bed in immediately. Some youngsters may impress, but even the best of them will probably be inconsistent. Collins and Dunne's limitations will be exposed this season as well, unless McLeish plays a 8-man defence rather than a defence and a midfield. The cost of that is that Bent will be dropping into midfield in search of the ball, to the extent that fans will start asking if he has had coaching lessons from Emile Heskey.
So, to summarise, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. <wink>
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It made me laugh that someone thought we would finish 1st
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It made me laugh that someone thought we would finish 1st
*looks at post above yours*
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Assuming no more arrivals, i went for 15th as i think we have no strength in depth at all,a couple of injuries and i think we will be struggling
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It made me laugh that someone thought we would finish 1st
We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Or something.
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I think we might get a loan signing or two. But really, 7th to 12th is our lot now. Houllier was right all along!
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12th for me. I think our defence will be better, but we'll bore everybody rigid with our turgid play and we'll have lots of draws and the odd Bent inspired 1-0. If, (and it's a huge great stonking great IIIIFFFFFFFFFFFFFF) Ireland has a good season, then we could do a lot better. I think he'll stay mental though unfortunately. The big worry at this stage is that the squad just isn't good enough, at all.
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8th on the basis that there are many shit teams in the league. We have more or less the same team as last year (arguably a better GK, N'Zogbia instead of Young and someone who can tackle instead of Downing) so I can't see much difference.
The teams that finished below us last season haven't improved, so why would we finish lower?
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My guess is 14th (assuming no new arrivals). The biggest cause for pessimism is that our central midfield is weak and will be overrun by too many PL teams. Also, I think we'll miss Downing and Young more than we want to admit. N'Zogbia is a decent addition, but I'm not sure he'll bed in immediately. Some youngsters may impress, but even the best of them will probably be inconsistent. Collins and Dunne's limitations will be exposed this season as well, unless McLeish plays a 8-man defence rather than a defence and a midfield. The cost of that is that Bent will be dropping into midfield in search of the ball, to the extent that fans will start asking if he has had coaching lessons from Emile Heskey.
So, to summarise, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. <wink>
Nah, the worst that can happen is that we have an abysmal start, leading the fans to turn on McLeish straight away, so that everything goes sour. In that case we might have another relegation battle on our hands. The best that can happen is that McLeish, Collins and Dunne manage to shore up the defence, while Albrighton, N'Zogbia and perhaps even Ireland provide enough assists for Bent to nick the odd goal. In that scenario we can battle Everton for 7th, even though the football served will have little entertainment value. The lack of a dominant defensive midfielder makes me doubt that'll happen though, so my guess is somewhere between the mentioned scenarios.
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It made me laugh that someone thought we would finish 1st
*loos at post above yours*
Loos at you too!
There have been a number of Unfathomable predictions, based more on creating an impact than common sense I reckon.
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Voted 16th.
The defence is rank bad, and minus the best performer last season (Walker), and possibly minus our best central defender (Cuellar). I have no faith in Eck performing miracles and getting them to play well, indeed Dunne is another year older and will possibly decline still further.
The midfield is far and away weaker than last year, having been shorn of its two best players. We have a good signing in N'Zogbia, but that is a very poor trade for Young AND Downing. Petrov is not going to miraculously become a 90 minute player, and beyond him we have no one that can tackle in he squad. EWe will miss Coker this year. Delph seems very injury prone. Makoun may do better, but needs to as he was not great last season. I fully expect Ireland to comtinue to be poor, based on his pre season form being no better than last season. Albrighton looks jaded, though I would hope he will improve.
Up front we have Bent, best hope he does not get injured as without him we could be in the relegation mix again.
Can't see past a bloody awful season tbh.
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There are not 15 clubs with better squads than us.
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There are not 15 clubs with better squads than us.
No but there are 15 squads with better managers and squads on par with ours.
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There are not 15 clubs with better squads than us.
No but there are 15 squads with better managers and squads on par with ours.
So, which are the 4 clubs that will finish below us?
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Promoted teams plus one of Blackburn and Wigan.
Of course its only a prediction, and if everything clicks it could see us as high as 10th. With a Parker / Barton signing I would have us down for top 10, but without a tackler in midfield we are very exposed and have a rank bad defence.
Given and Bent are absolutely crucial to us staying out of relegation trouble. I think there will be quite a gap between 16th and the drop zone though this year. The promoted sides all look certainties for going back down this year.
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Main difference i can see between our squad and others who finished below us last seaon is Bent. Lose him for any length of time and they could easily finish above us.
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So you think we're worse than Wolves and one of Wigan or Blackburn.
I watched us out play Blackburn just over a week ago.
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Main difference i can see between our squad and others who finished below us last seaon is Bent. Lose him for any length of time and they could easily finish above us.
Injuries to key players is something all clubs have to worry about.
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Main difference i can see between our squad and others who finished below us last seaon is Bent. Lose him for any length of time and they could easily finish above us.
Injuries to key players is something all clubs have to worry about.
True but as last season showed we haven't got anyone to come in and do Bent's job. Where would we have finished if Bent hadn't been signed? 12th? 14th? 16th?
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So you think we're worse than Wolves and one of Wigan or Blackburn.
I watched us out play Blackburn just over a week ago.
not sure outplay is correct , we played well enough bu how many shots did we have on target? i agree we are better than blackburn but we werent that good against them.
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Main difference i can see between our squad and others who finished below us last seaon is Bent. Lose him for any length of time and they could easily finish above us.
Injuries to key players is something all clubs have to worry about.
True but as last season showed we haven't got anyone to come in and do Bent's job. Where would we have finished if Bent hadn't been signed? 12th? 14th? 16th?
maybe worse -where were we when he arrived? 18th?
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My hunch is that top six is given - Man U, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and L'pool - and bottom six will probably be Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves, Norwich, QPR and Swansea. That leaves eight teams: Villa, Everton, Fulham, Sunderland, Newcastle, Stoke, Bolton and Albion -- who'll finish between 7th and 14th. Thus I realise 14th is, perhaps, overtly pessimistic.
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So you think we're worse than Wolves and one of Wigan or Blackburn.
I watched us out play Blackburn just over a week ago.
not sure outplay is correct , we played well enough bu how many shots did we have on target? i agree we are better than blackburn but we werent that good against them.
That's just splitting hairs. We were better than them.
I just think a lot of people are guilty of over playing our weaknesses and ignoring those at other clubs.
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So you think we're worse than Wolves and one of Wigan or Blackburn.
I watched us out play Blackburn just over a week ago.
not sure outplay is correct , we played well enough bu how many shots did we have on target? i agree we are better than blackburn but we werent that good against them.
That's just splitting hairs. We were better than them.
I just think a lot of people are guilty of over playing our weaknesses and ignoring those at other clubs.
I certainly believe we have the quality to finish 7th if all goes well, but i would be concerned should given or bent in particular be injured long term -injury free i see top 8 as very realistic,but i would love to see one more signing at least of the calibre of parker.
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My hunch is that top six is given - Man U, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and L'pool - and bottom six will probably be Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves, Norwich, QPR and Swansea. That leaves eight teams: Villa, Everton, Fulham, Sunderland, Newcastle, Stoke, Bolton and Albion -- who'll finish between 7th and 14th. Thus I realise 14th is, perhaps, overtly pessimistic.
I reckon you're pretty close there, my one exception would be Newcastle who appear to be in complete disarray and it wouldn't surprise me to see them in a relegation fight. With, perhaps, one of the promoted teams having a better season than expected.
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I voted 15th. I cannot add to that which ASHTONVILLA has posted. The only word of his I would change is the use of the word "Eck" for Alex or McLeish. The use of such an ugly and inappropriate nickname should be reserved for one held in high regard or affection and he has earned neither.
I think we will be swamped in midfield on a very regular basis and that will result in the manager retreating into total defence mode with the hope of points coming from counter attack solo goals. Bent is a good enough player to do that job for us but without him we would struggle.
This time last year I expected O'Neill to go about November 5th the same date will be the pivotal time for McLeish and I think the board will prevaricate like they did until Houllier's health gave them a get out of jail card. They will not be so lucky this time around.
If we swallow our pride and sign Barton I will revise my prediction to 12th.
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Way i see it, we finished 9th last season, we're much weaker this season. The Youth players could come good, the duffers could come good but its very much guesswork. Looking at the teams around us, Blackburn are weaker i'd say, Wigan as well, can't think of many other clubs that have lost key players like us. Newcastle i suppose.
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Bearing in mind the amount of trust we may have to put in our younger players, it will be a transitional season for us really. 8th-9th would be acceptable for me, any higher would be a bonus.
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Way i see it, we finished 9th last season, we're much weaker this season. The Youth players could come good, the duffers could come good but its very much guesswork. Looking at the teams around us, Blackburn are weaker i'd say, Wigan as well, can't think of many other clubs that have lost key players like us. Newcastle i suppose.
last season we were hit by massive injuries and internal squabbles and the season was a disaster for most of it - i doubt things would be that bad this season and i think mcleish is a better man manager and team spirit will be much better.
its no good us keep saying weve got great kids in the pipeline , they are old enough now to prove themselves and now is their chance and although we have lost key players , the likes of makoun, bent, given and nzogbia are quality players and with warnock and an on form ireland we are not a bad side.
mcleish also will make the defence far more solid than under houllier -its not all doom and gloom by any means -the key for me is that the big players stay injury free.
I think we all know who the top 6 will be but along with everton i think we are better than the rest of the bunch.
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People forget how close it was last season where there were 3 points between 8th and 14th. If its similar this season, it would only take an Injury, slight loss of form or improvement or a lucky win and you could basically finish 6 places higher or lower.
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Bearing in mind the weakened squad and the problems last season you've have to see the lack of bottom 5 predictions as a vote of confidence in McLeish, or sorts.
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People forget how close it was last season where there were 3 points between 8th and 14th. If its similar this season, it would only take an Injury, slight loss of form or improvement or a lucky win and you could basically finish 6 places higher or lower.
New manager, new system , new staff and much better team spirit now greg , last season is gone -lets look ahead rather than start with such bleak expectations,the younger lads will get the chance to prove themselves and in a years time we will much better off.
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People forget how close it was last season where there were 3 points between 8th and 14th. If its similar this season, it would only take an Injury, slight loss of form or improvement or a lucky win and you could basically finish 6 places higher or lower.
New manager, new system , new staff and much better team spirit now greg , last season is gone -lets look ahead rather than start with such bleak expectations,the younger lads will get the chance to prove themselves and in a years time we will much better off.
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well there's a lot of 'new' i agree. whether its better i'm not so sure. As i said earlier i think any prediction from 8th downwards is possible. 7th i can't see happening as we're not 6th points better than everton were last season, and they've not got any worse.
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There are not 15 clubs with better squads than us.
No but there are 15 squads with better managers and squads on par with ours.
How many managers in the league have won a trophy in England? Ferguson, Wenger, Dalglish, Mancini, Redknapp and...McLeish - can't think of any others (unless I've missed someone out).
The majority of the league would want Given, Dunne, Collins, Young, Warnock, N'Zogbia and Bent, with possibly a few others as well.
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Alex McLeish will set us out (team and formation wise) exactly how MON did, and I believe we will get similar results from it.
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I saw very little new team spirit against Chelsea or Derby. I think the whole thing of McLeish turning problem players into stars is a myth with no evidence to support it. As has been posted many times already there will be players who think McLeish is the dog's bollocks when they get a pat on the back for putting the ball into Row ZZ and there will be others who will get pissed at bonding breaks and want to fight the staff because they are not first name on the team sheet every week. There never was a manager who was popular with everybody in the squad. The talent a manager has to have is to get the best out of the players who hate his guts.
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I saw very little new team spirit against Chelsea or Derby. I think the whole thing of McLeish turning problem players into stars is a myth with no evidence to support it. As has been posted many times already there will be players who think McLeish is the dog's bollocks when they get a pat on the back for putting the ball into Row ZZ and there will be others who will get pissed at bonding breaks and want to fight the staff because they are not first name on the team sheet every week. There never was a manager who was popular with everybody in the squad. The talent a manager has to have is to get the best out of the players who hate his guts.
i dont recall many ex mcleish players slagging him off in the way mons did and i think he has better man management qualities than mon or houllier.
Granted chelsea and derby were poor displays but the main thing was not to get injuries and improve fitness , if we get turned over by fulham and blackburn then is the time to worry, i hope and expect 4 points if not 6 from those 2 games.
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Fulham won't be any pushover especially with their advanced match fitness. I'd take a draw now frankly. I hope AM has rebuilt the morale because a bad start and all the tensions could re-surface.
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I've gone with 7th.
Blind optimism really, but we might just surprise a few people this season.
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I saw very little new team spirit against Chelsea or Derby. I think the whole thing of McLeish turning problem players into stars is a myth with no evidence to support it. As has been posted many times already there will be players who think McLeish is the dog's bollocks when they get a pat on the back for putting the ball into Row ZZ and there will be others who will get pissed at bonding breaks and want to fight the staff because they are not first name on the team sheet every week. There never was a manager who was popular with everybody in the squad. The talent a manager has to have is to get the best out of the players who hate his guts.
Were you at the game, Brian, because there were probably 4 players at most who started against Derby who will start next week, I don't see how you can use that to support your anti McLeish campaign. In any case, team spirit is something that develops over time you don't just turn it on and off like a tap. Most of the more sensible Noses that I've spoken to begrudgingly think that he'll do a good job for us.
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Fulham won't be any pushover especially with their advanced match fitness. I'd take a draw now frankly. I hope AM has rebuilt the morale because a bad start and all the tensions could re-surface.
There are no pushovers as you well know gregory , but we should go to fulham believing we can get a result there , they are far from unbeatable and we have on paper a decent start fixture wise , lets hope we take advantage and pick up some points .
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Fulham won't be any pushover especially with their advanced match fitness. I'd take a draw now frankly. I hope AM has rebuilt the morale because a bad start and all the tensions could re-surface.
Funnily enough Jol was saying the other day that it wasn't the ideal preparation as playing competitive games hadn't allowed him to get all his squad up to speed.
Fulham is always a difficult place to go, so I wouldn't read too much into one result. Give it 6 or 7 games and we'll ave a better idea.
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I saw very little new team spirit against Chelsea or Derby. I think the whole thing of McLeish turning problem players into stars is a myth with no evidence to support it. As has been posted many times already there will be players who think McLeish is the dog's bollocks when they get a pat on the back for putting the ball into Row ZZ and there will be others who will get pissed at bonding breaks and want to fight the staff because they are not first name on the team sheet every week. There never was a manager who was popular with everybody in the squad. The talent a manager has to have is to get the best out of the players who hate his guts.
So are you tipping Liverpool to go down Brian? They've spent massive amounts this summer and got battered at Hull and Galatasaray, and let a 3-1 lead slip at Valerenga. Where was their team spirit, because they all talk about how great it is to play for Liverpool and then went out and shit the bed? Or are we going to treat friendlies as what they are, and realize they are exercises, not real games?
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So you think we're worse than Wolves and one of Wigan or Blackburn.
I watched us out play Blackburn just over a week ago.
McLeish is a worse manager than the managers of all those clubs. He proved this by taking Blues down, despite having had more to spend than any of them. He proved that when in the shit he did not have the management and motivation skills to pull them out of it. Whereas by contrast Martinez (who was a preferred choice for the Villa job by our board), McCarthy and Kean all did.
I woud say Blues had a better squad than all those teams last season. That Blues team looked gutless, which is why I doubt McLeish as a motivator.
I also doubt McLeish as a polisher of turds extraordinaire. He couldn't get Bentley and Hleb back to past form, so why do so many think he will get Ireland and Warnock back to past form?
Then there is the McLeish as a fantastic defensive organiser myth. That Blues team shipped more goals than us last year. There is no evidence that he is a good defensive organiser whatsoever. He put a lot of men behind the ball sure. Problem is the men he can put behind the ball at villa can't tackle, and are short. That approach wont work as well with our squad, and it didn't work that well in the past for him anyway (two relegations).
Sure we have some really good players, but as a squad we can't put out a team which doesn't have gaping flaws as regards winning the ball. Frankly our team looks gutless, and that worries me.
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we're Aston Villa. We'll fuck it up some how x
There are not 15 clubs with better squads than us.
No but there are 15 squads with better managers and squads on par with ours.
How many managers in the league have won a trophy in England? Ferguson, Wenger, Dalglish, Mancini, Redknapp and...McLeish - can't think of any others (unless I've missed someone out).
The majority of the league would want Given, Dunne, Collins, Young, Warnock, N'Zogbia and Bent, with possibly a few others as well.
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So you think we're worse than Wolves and one of Wigan or Blackburn.
I watched us out play Blackburn just over a week ago.
McLeish is a worse manager than the managers of all those clubs. He proved this by taking Blues down, despite having had more to spend than any of them. He proved that when in the shit he did not have the management and motivation skills to pull them out of it. Whereas by contrast Martinez (who was a preferred choice for the Villa job by our board), McCarthy and Kean all did.
I woud say Blues had a better squad than all those teams last season. That Blues team looked gutless, which is why I doubt McLeish as a motivator.
I also doubt McLeish as a polisher of turds extraordinaire. He couldn't get Bentley and Hleb back to past form, so why do so many think he will get Ireland and Warnock back to past form?
Then there is the McLeish as a fantastic defensive organiser myth. That Blues team shipped more goals than us last year. There is no evidence that he is a good defensive organiser whatsoever. He put a lot of men behind the ball sure. Problem is the men he can put behind the ball at villa can't tackle, and are short. That approach wont work as well with our squad, and it didn't work that well in the past for him anyway (two relegations).
Sure we have some really good players, but as a squad we can't put out a team which doesn't have gaping flaws as regards winning the ball. Frankly our team looks gutless, and that worries me.
absolute drivel-mcleish has been a success at rangers and managed at international level, yes blues went down under him but you forgot to mention he also took them to their highest finish in 50 years and to their 1st trophy in 50 years as well, along with european qualification.
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I am not too optimist, I must confess.
Apart from the manager, that brings us back to the Pre-history of football, where do we want to go with this defensive line: Young - Dunne - Collins - Warnock?
Our CB are ridicolous, I don't want to be disrespectful with a Villa player, so I won't say that, but the most famous commentator of the Italian Sky TV says that Dunne looks like a pub player.
I hope to be wrong but honestly I'm very very disappointed at the moment, never I would have espected to see again the most error-prone player in the world with the claret and blue shirt.
And the other defenders are not much better.
And our best youngsters, Supermark Albrighton and Barry Bannan were on the bench in the last friendly.
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http://www.football365.com/f365-features/7080282/Villa-Preview (http://www.football365.com/f365-features/7080282/Villa-Preview)
Not a bad preview piece there from Football365.
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I think we will end up somewhere around 12th. We have lost our two most creative players and you do not bounce back easily from that. N’Zog is a good signing, but I have a bad feeling that Albrighton is going to struggle with the expectation this season and that will leave Bent very short of service to get the goals. It’s not all doom and gloom of course and maybe a good cup run will lift the mood, but I do have a very bad feeling that come May next year we are not going to be top dogs in the Midlands as the Stripy Filth finish higher than us.
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Cheer up, we're up to the giddy heights of 2nd as it stands!
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In the Mail on Sunday, they reckoned the bookies had us finishing 8th. Their own preview was like the F365 one in that it predicted a stormy ride
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I went for 8th which is probably just about where we sit in the pecking order at the moment.
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absolute drivel-mcleish has been a success at rangers and managed at international level, yes blues went down under him but you forgot to mention he also took them to their highest finish in 50 years and to their 1st trophy in 50 years as well, along with european qualification.
That 9th was their highest finish for 50 years says a lot more about SHA than it does about McLeish.
I've gone for 12th by the way.
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So you think we're worse than Wolves and one of Wigan or Blackburn.
I watched us out play Blackburn just over a week ago.
McLeish is a worse manager than the managers of all those clubs. He proved this by taking Blues down, despite having had more to spend than any of them. He proved that when in the shit he did not have the management and motivation skills to pull them out of it. Whereas by contrast Martinez (who was a preferred choice for the Villa job by our board), McCarthy and Kean all did.
I woud say Blues had a better squad than all those teams last season. That Blues team looked gutless, which is why I doubt McLeish as a motivator.
I also doubt McLeish as a polisher of turds extraordinaire. He couldn't get Bentley and Hleb back to past form, so why do so many think he will get Ireland and Warnock back to past form?
Then there is the McLeish as a fantastic defensive organiser myth. That Blues team shipped more goals than us last year. There is no evidence that he is a good defensive organiser whatsoever. He put a lot of men behind the ball sure. Problem is the men he can put behind the ball at villa can't tackle, and are short. That approach wont work as well with our squad, and it didn't work that well in the past for him anyway (two relegations).
Sure we have some really good players, but as a squad we can't put out a team which doesn't have gaping flaws as regards winning the ball. Frankly our team looks gutless, and that worries me.
He's the only one of those managers to win any trophies, where does that fit with your "proof"?
Your whole post is just nonsensical cherry picking of things that suit your ultra negative posturing while ignoring anything that doesn't fit.
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Some goon's put us as champions and others have us relegated but we're nailed on mid-table if you ask me, which you did, so there. 12th at best but could be lower. Crap season awaits, sorry for the negativity but we've an average squad and Given will need to be player of the season to keep our points total respectable.
Happy holidays, up the Villa!
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Everyone cheer up, it's not easy being a Villa fan but when things go well it's beautiful.
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Bearing in mind the amount of trust we may have to put in our younger players, it will be a transitional season for us really. 8th-9th would be acceptable for me, any higher would be a bonus.
We always have 'transitional seasons'!
A 'transitional season' is a 'normal season' down at VP.
If we lose Bent, we lose the ability to score, scary as it is.
I guess Gabby and NZog could fill that void, but that's it - forget Heskey and the Fonz, neither are good enough.
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We've got a distinctly mid-table look about us, I'm going for 10th. I will reassess this if we get a couple of decent loans in before the window closes.
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Went for 9th, can't see anything other than another uninspiring season. Sorry!
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In previous seasons our first team looked good enough on paper to compete with most. We didn't have a squad to sustain a push for anything. Now our first team looks weaker and we still don't have a squad. 12th or thereabouts for me.
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I've gone for a more aspirational target/result and at least one other person agrees with me!
Yes, 5th. If the dodgy players rediscover their mojos or whatever it takes to get them playing the way they were when it seemed like a good idea to sign them. If nobody gets injured to the point where they have to stay out for weeks on end. If AMc is half the motivator he must have been to get Blues to beat Arsenal (even moody Arsenal) for the Carling cup.
We're both optimists. Not as madly sunny side up as the people above us are, though.
(I'd still like another signing, though, like Scott Parker. He'd be good. Or Messi. He'd be really good.)
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5th OH DEAR
keep taking the tablets
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10th with current squad , but if we sign a winger and midfielder maybe top 8
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Realistically before a ball is kicked I think 8th place would be a good result for Alex in his first season. Fingers crossed with a new manager and players keen to impress coupled with favourable fixtures early on by around October we could be up near the summit and the Gabby/Bent strike partnership could be on fire, then finishing 8th would seem like a disappointment - remember the Gregory season when we were top until new year then ended up 6th? With the Villa you never know we are the masters of unpredictability - 89 4th bottom 90 runners up, season tickets should come with free medical cover and a health warning.
Using the 89 90 example I'll say 4th - Champions League spot with Stephen Ireland player of the season, Darren Bent league top scorer.
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5th OH DEAR
keep taking the tablets
Maybe you should start taking some tablets? All you do is bloody whinge.
Lou'zie0 even said it was a bit ambitious indicating it was a best case scenario.
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We always have 'transitional seasons'!
Well, this season will be and last season was but the 2 -3 seasons before that were not.
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Shite Dork takes a dim view of our prospects, and he is probably right:
“Villa set for bottom half finish”
Dwight Yorke is worried about Aston Villa
By Brian Lofrumento | 11th August 2011
Former Manchester United and Aston Villa striker Dwight Yorke has expressed concern for the Villans, suggesting that a top half finish is out of their reach this season. The Villans have sold star players Ashley Young and Stewart Downing this summer, along with the loss of American goalkeeper Brad Friedel to Tottenham.
“Whether Villa can go on and finish in the top half will be a real challenge for me,” Yorke told English newspaper The Independent. ”Europe is not a possibility. They have let their vital players leave the club and it is difficult to recover from that when you are a club of Villa’s standing.
“When you look at the players they have let go, Ashley Young and Stewart Downing, these are key players to Villa, and the players they have brought in, no disrespect to them, you can’t see them improving Villa too much. If they finish in the top half of the Premier League it will be a great achievement. I don’t like what I’m seeing and I think it will be very disturbing to the fans.”
Despite the sales, Villa fans can look forward to seeing new signings Charles N’Zogbia and Shay Given in action, both of which have impressed in the Premier League.
Premiership Talk (http://www.premiershiptalk.com/2011/08/11/villa-set-for-bottom-half-finish/)
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Shite Dork takes a dim view of our prospects, and he is probably right:
“Villa set for bottom half finish”
Dwight Yorke is worried about Aston Villa
By Brian Lofrumento | 11th August 2011
Former Manchester United and Aston Villa striker Dwight Yorke has expressed concern for the Villans, suggesting that a top half finish is out of their reach this season. The Villans have sold star players Ashley Young and Stewart Downing this summer, along with the loss of American goalkeeper Brad Friedel to Tottenham.
“Whether Villa can go on and finish in the top half will be a real challenge for me,” Yorke told English newspaper The Independent. ”Europe is not a possibility. They have let their vital players leave the club and it is difficult to recover from that when you are a club of Villa’s standing.
“When you look at the players they have let go, Ashley Young and Stewart Downing, these are key players to Villa, and the players they have brought in, no disrespect to them, you can’t see them improving Villa too much. If they finish in the top half of the Premier League it will be a great achievement. I don’t like what I’m seeing and I think it will be very disturbing to the fans.”
Despite the sales, Villa fans can look forward to seeing new signings Charles N’Zogbia and Shay Given in action, both of which have impressed in the Premier League.
Premiership Talk (http://www.premiershiptalk.com/2011/08/11/villa-set-for-bottom-half-finish/)
Think he's being very gracious in saying he can't see the new players improving us to much.
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Phuk it - I`ve gone for 7th
The reason being apart from the usual top 4 + bin dippers & spuds, I cant see any of the other teams being any better (or worse)
Anyway thats my opinion and I`m sticking with it
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8th but hoping for higher of course!
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Shite Dork takes a dim view of our prospects, and he is probably right:
“Villa set for bottom half finish”
Dwight Yorke is worried about Aston Villa
By Brian Lofrumento | 11th August 2011
Former Manchester United and Aston Villa striker Dwight Yorke has expressed concern for the Villans, suggesting that a top half finish is out of their reach this season. The Villans have sold star players Ashley Young and Stewart Downing this summer, along with the loss of American goalkeeper Brad Friedel to Tottenham.
“Whether Villa can go on and finish in the top half will be a real challenge for me,” Yorke told English newspaper The Independent. ”Europe is not a possibility. They have let their vital players leave the club and it is difficult to recover from that when you are a club of Villa’s standing.
“When you look at the players they have let go, Ashley Young and Stewart Downing, these are key players to Villa, and the players they have brought in, no disrespect to them, you can’t see them improving Villa too much. If they finish in the top half of the Premier League it will be a great achievement. I don’t like what I’m seeing and I think it will be very disturbing to the fans.”
Despite the sales, Villa fans can look forward to seeing new signings Charles N’Zogbia and Shay Given in action, both of which have impressed in the Premier League.
Premiership Talk (http://www.premiershiptalk.com/2011/08/11/villa-set-for-bottom-half-finish/)
Think he's being very gracious in saying he can't see the new players improving us to much.
He's probably about right, but I think the two we've brought in are good.
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Anyone got any further or revised thoughts on this after the weekend's games. And not just ours, but also what we saw from the other sides?
I think there'll be a pack of clubs like us trying to stay ahead of each other and maybe grab a Europa place. Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea WILL finish 1st to 3rd in whatever order and one of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs will get 4th. I have a suspicion Spurs will struggle by their recent standards and may be catchable by the leaders of the pack we'll be in.
Our advantage in trying to be leaders of that pack is Darren Bent. Nobody else has a goal scorer as potent, so get the best out of him and we'll be 7th or 8th, IMO. If we're going to maybe even pinch 6th from Spurs, then what we'll also need is top seasons out of our offensive midfield players, such and Albrighton and Ireland.
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After the weekend I'm afraid I don't share your optimism John M'Zog. We looked better organised defensively and we do indeed have a top quality goal scorer. What worried me was the bits in between and a really worrying lack of creativity and service to DB.
Looking at other games I think the top 3 will be Manu, Citeh, Chelsea (in that order), followed by Arsenal/Spurs/Liverpool (not necessarily in that order) to complete the top 6. I thought 5 teams will be relegation fodder - Wigan, Norwich, QPR, Blackburn and Newcastle. Haven't seen Swansea yet but by all accounts they play decent football so could well stay up.
So that leaves us 'battling' with the likes of Everton/Fulham/Albion and others for mid table mediocrity. My original prediction was 10th and didn't see anything at the weekend to improve on that.
Think we'll do well in the cups though
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It will take a lot more thN game to make sense of anything in this league beyond the obvious that Manu and Chelsea will be competing for the title.
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Well I'm more optimisitc after Saturday. I think we're as anybody in that big 'chasing pack'. If we remain solid at the back and play with a bit more creativity at home we could be closer to 7th than 12th.
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Well I'm more optimisitc after Saturday. I think we're as anybody in that big 'chasing pack'. If we remain solid at the back and play with a bit more creativity at home we could be closer to 7th than 12th.
Pretty much how I see it!
That's why I think a strong defensive midfielder would improve us so much, as it would give us the security to play more attacking players ahead of him, such as Ireland and Bannan. That well marshalled defence, with Shay given behind it, and say Scott Parker infront of it, and the other 4 players could concentrate on getting the ball to Bent much more than they would need to worry about going the other way.
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I believe there's not a lot in it from fourth spot down to mid table. The gap is definitely closing between the likes of Arsenal and the likes of Stoke and for that reason I reckon we are in for a very interesting season where many teams will be nicking points from each other. Villa are more than good enough for a top half finish at the very least.
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Between 10th and 11th.
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It may not be pretty this season but if we're tight at the back and keep Bent fit we're going to win more games than we lose.
Despite selling two of our best players in the summer, I still think we have the personnel in the squad to better last season's final placing. Whether McLeish picks the best balanced team from that squad remains to be seen. I'm not convinced by the midfield/forward selection he seems to have settled on since pre-season.
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Between 10th and 11th.
10 and a halfth?
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Opening day is wildly unpredictable and it takes a few weeks for things to settle down. Happy with an away point, a bit disappointed (but not surprised) by the team selection. Not really revising my prediction of 11th. Have a feeling that Bolton and WBA will steal a march on us with a bit more of a positive approach. But let's see where we are in a month.
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8th. Always 8th.
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I'd be very surprised if we finish above Bolton that's for sure. They could be the surprise package this year if they can keep hold of Cahill.
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Ah, Cahill. If only we'd never have....oh I won't bother. :-(
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Where will we finish?
Norwich
Do I win a prize?
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so a weaker squad than we had last season is going to finish higher? we are set up for another few end of season months of drama, i think the bottom 10 places will be as fiercely contested as last season and we will be in that contest
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so a weaker squad than we had last season is going to finish higher? we are set up for another few end of season months of drama, i think the bottom 10 places will be as fiercely contested as last season and we will be in that contest
A vailid point. However, last season the new manager managed to turn one of the league's meanest defences into one of the worst, antagonised many of our senior players and insulted the club and its fans numerous times.
There seems to be an air of stability about the place now which in itself could be worth a few points as will keeping a few more clean sheets. Add in the fact we have Darren Bent for a whole season and that we have creative players like N'Zogbia, Bannan and Ireland in the squad there's no reason why we can't finish top half. Remember, 9th last season was a serious underachievement for that squad. They should have been top 6 minimum.
We are a little bit weaker now but every bit as good as the Fulhams, Sunderlands, Boltons, Evertons who will be in the chasing pack of 7th to 12th.
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so a weaker squad than we had last season is going to finish higher? we are set up for another few end of season months of drama, i think the bottom 10 places will be as fiercely contested as last season and we will be in that contest
That squad for 2010/2011 underachieved and had a great number of inujuries. Should this one play to it's potential and not have that awful injury record, then it CAN finish higher.
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My worry is, John, that we don't even need an awful injury list this season. Four or five players out for various reasons at any one time (rather than the 10-11 we had at stages last season) and this squad will be seriously exposed. I think, for that reason, we'll struggle to match 9th again. I'm sticking to a couple of places below that.
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See, I don't think we're seriously shorter on numbers than last season. Based on who we had at the end of last season, Big Brad, Ash and the wimp are replaced by Given, Ireland and N'Zogbia. NRC is the only player we're truely lacking a replacement for. So those 4-5 injuries shouldn't effect us anymore than they would have done last season.
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so a weaker squad than we had last season is going to finish higher? we are set up for another few end of season months of drama, i think the bottom 10 places will be as fiercely contested as last season and we will be in that contest
A vailid point. However, last season the new manager managed to turn one of the league's meanest defences into one of the worst, antagonised many of our senior players and insulted the club and its fans numerous times.
There seems to be an air of stability about the place now which in itself could be worth a few points as will keeping a few more clean sheets. Add in the fact we have Darren Bent for a whole season and that we have creative players like N'Zogbia, Bannan and Ireland in the squad there's no reason why we can't finish top half. Remember, 9th last season was a serious underachievement for that squad. They should have been top 6 minimum.
We are a little bit weaker now but every bit as good as the Fulhams, Sunderlands, Boltons, Evertons who will be in the chasing pack of 7th to 12th.
Honest assessment Irish. I've highlighted the 7th-12th bit as I recall how ballistic we all went when GED said we were a 7th-12th team! Ironic that less than a year later we accept that as our place in life
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I've highlighted the 7th-12th bit as I recall how ballistic we all went when GED said we were a 7th-12th team! Ironic that less than a year later we accept that as our place in life
It pissed me off at the time as we had just finished 6th three years running, which by saying what he did said he either didn't know or was totally dismissive of it.
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See, I don't think we're seriously shorter on numbers than last season. Based on who we had at the end of last season, Big Brad, Ash and the wimp are replaced by Given, Ireland and N'Zogbia. NRC is the only player we're truely lacking a replacement for. So those 4-5 injuries shouldn't effect us anymore than they would have done last season.
When you put it like that, it's true - minus the starting RB in Walker. I guess the difference is that we closed the season with a largely fit and settled team - it was Oct-Jan when injuries were starting to bite; we had a larger squad then and suffered.
Again, fit and settled, and we can compete. But I don't feel comfortable with the depth of the squad and I worry it'll hurt us at some point. Eg: Collins was a doubt ahead of Fulham; had he not made it, we'd have had Dunne-Clark (fine) with no-one on the bench to cover CB. Baker having been away on international duty. I suppose it would have been Beye.
I wish I shared your confidence in the squad, John! I just remember the injury-prone defence last season and the problems that really gave us.
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9th or 10th again I think.
That said last time I looked Everton haven't signed anyone and already have injuries to key players like Arteta and Coleman so not sure why in the media they're not getting squad crisis headlines as at least we've signed a good keeper and wide player.
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9th or 10th again I think.
That said last time I looked Everton haven't signed anyone and already have injuries to key players like Arteta and Coleman so not sure why in the media they're not getting squad crisis headlines as at least we've signed a good keeper and wide player.
The players we've signed our replacements. They haven't sold anybody of note unlike us.
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Everyone still haven't replaced Piennar.
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Everyone still haven't replaced Piennar.
I read that in a rastamouse voice.
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9th or 10th again I think.
That said last time I looked Everton haven't signed anyone and already have injuries to key players like Arteta and Coleman so not sure why in the media they're not getting squad crisis headlines as at least we've signed a good keeper and wide player.
The players we've signed our replacements. They haven't sold anybody of note unlike us.
Did you miss them being in the bottom half for most of last season like us?
Their first 11 isn't that great anymore.
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my worry is the defence and a lack of a defensive midfielder, Collins is a panic waiting to happen and Dunne is over the hill and there is no protection in front of them, we will concede goals even though i think Given is an improvement on Freidel. If Bent does not score who will?
The current squad is mid table but there are quite a few mid table squads out there.
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9th or 10th again I think.
That said last time I looked Everton haven't signed anyone and already have injuries to key players like Arteta and Coleman so not sure why in the media they're not getting squad crisis headlines as at least we've signed a good keeper and wide player.
The players we've signed our replacements. They haven't sold anybody of note unlike us.
How do you think Everton will get on now the shite has all come out abouth there being no money Risso?
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I think Spurs are in trouble. No points, haven't even scored a goal yet and Modric wants out. They could be bottom by 10.00 p.m.
I know it is very early days but outside of the obvious I haven't seen anything to be overly worried about and of those Arsenal look to be in disarray at present.
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I've also not seen too much from Liverpool yet. The beat an Arsenal side lacking in confidence, but only drew at home to Sunderland.
It's early days and the league needs to settle down before we really see what most sides will be like, so nows the time to put some points on the board given our relatively easy start.
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Liverpool will improve as the season goes on.
We won't finish top 6 but I don't see why we can't challenge anyone outside of that group.
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Liverpool bought a bunch of good players, but not Champions League qualifying position players (bar Suarez). I'm getting fed up with the amount of media attention they are getting.
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Liverpool will improve as the season goes on.
I think most teams will.
Suarez looks like the only signing they've made who would get into a top 4 side, so I think they'll be very far away form Man Utd, Man City (best team I've seen so far!) and Chelsea. The pisser of it is they might still get 4th if Arsenal continue to flounder, but if they do I'd predict it'll be on less points than is usual for 4th.
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Voted 16th.
The defence is rank bad, and minus the best performer last season (Walker), and possibly minus our best central defender (Cuellar). I have no faith in Eck performing miracles and getting them to play well, indeed Dunne is another year older and will possibly decline still further.
The midfield is far and away weaker than last year, having been shorn of its two best players. We have a good signing in N'Zogbia, but that is a very poor trade for Young AND Downing. Petrov is not going to miraculously become a 90 minute player, and beyond him we have no one that can tackle in he squad. EWe will miss Coker this year. Delph seems very injury prone. Makoun may do better, but needs to as he was not great last season. I fully expect Ireland to comtinue to be poor, based on his pre season form being no better than last season. Albrighton looks jaded, though I would hope he will improve.
Up front we have Bent, best hope he does not get injured as without him we could be in the relegation mix again.
Can't see past a bloody awful season tbh.
And the Nostradamus Award for 2011-2012 goes to...
I voted 12th for the record.
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I think I went for 8th.
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Is there a reason I'm unable to see the results when I click the 'view results' button? It just takes me back to the poll...
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Did you vote?
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Try it now.
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Ah. Poll had no deadline. I've just set it at 1 day to close. I'll see if I can make it less.
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Nope. Can't. Sorry. 1 day it is.
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I went for a somewhat optimistic 11th.
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Ah. Senior moment. Sorted. You should be able to view the results straight away now.
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The consensus already is that we are in the same group as Bolton, Fulham and Albion. How fast a decline has it been for us!
The most popular votes are seventh and eighth. That;s hardly a concensus sticking us with the three above.
It was a bloody good shout regarding Fulham and Albion though
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Quite scary how it turned out. Did we really think 8th or was we clutching at straws?
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Pretty hard to judge really. If we have a bad start i reckon come january re-inforcements will be brought in either under AM or someone else so we could end up higher than this squad looks capable of. Without injuries and some players improving on last season i'd say 12th. To me it looks a very average side
God, i'm good....
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I could have sworn I'd originally gone for 12-16th when McLeish arrived, but then I officially changed it on the thread to 11th by the time the season kicked off. I do recall feeling reasonably happy about the squad when we started, though less happy by the time we'd swapped Luke Young and Jean Makoun for Hutton and Jenas.
Mind you, having listened to Ray Houghton on the radio yesterday, insisting Villa fans needed to temper their expectations of the team... you can see the popular choice among here was 10-12th position, so our expectations were pretty modest. And AM couldn't deliver that.
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Can somebody resurrect last year's manager thread, where the Scottish manager arrives - I want to relive that 9/11 moment of disbelief and despair in preparation for this year's bombshell.
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hehehehe
I just happened along, not realising this was a resurrected thread from last year.
I saw the 'Assuming no new arrivals' but not the date and thought 'what a weird poll', but voted anyway.
What other idiot put us down to win the league?
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Quite scary how it turned out. Did we really think 8th or was we clutching at straws?
Apart from Newcastle who did a load better than I and many others expected I maintain that we really should be looking at 8th as what we should achieve.Have WBA,Fulham,Sunderland,Norwich,Swansea,Wigan and Stoke really got better squads than us? I don't think so.How many of those clubs can offer the sort of wages we pay? Bottom half of the table is an embarrassment for a club like Villa.
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Never mind that, I'm still intrigued by the supposedly stronger squads who finished below us in the table (Ferguson/McLeish).
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Never mind that, I'm still intrigued by the supposedly stronger squads who finished below us in the table (Ferguson/McLeish).
Yes that was a pearler
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Voted 16th.
The defence is rank bad, and minus the best performer last season (Walker), and possibly minus our best central defender (Cuellar). I have no faith in Eck performing miracles and getting them to play well, indeed Dunne is another year older and will possibly decline still further.
The midfield is far and away weaker than last year, having been shorn of its two best players. We have a good signing in N'Zogbia, but that is a very poor trade for Young AND Downing. Petrov is not going to miraculously become a 90 minute player, and beyond him we have no one that can tackle in he squad. EWe will miss Coker this year. Delph seems very injury prone. Makoun may do better, but needs to as he was not great last season. I fully expect Ireland to comtinue to be poor, based on his pre season form being no better than last season. Albrighton looks jaded, though I would hope he will improve.
Up front we have Bent, best hope he does not get injured as without him we could be in the relegation mix again.
Can't see past a bloody awful season tbh.
And the Nostradamus Award for 2011-2012 goes to...
I voted 12th for the record.
So did I. Chris Smith was his usual optimistic and spectacularly wrong self! ;)
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I voted 9th and predicted Newcastle to go down. So close!
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Did you vote?
Nope, but I see it now. Thanks leeg.
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Quite pleased with my 13th, not that far off.
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Our saving grace this season is that there are so many other shite teams that will be worse than us.
Going for a miserable 14th.
you say so many, yet by suggesting 14th you're also there's only 6 teams worse. Doesn't make sense.
Only 2 places off my prediction...AM managed to get the team playing even lower than my expectations and 7pts off 14th place! What a muppet!
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I think I voted 7th, so if you add a 1 on the font of that I was only 1 place off!
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In a previous poll I voted on June 15th for "Bottom 3"
In a subsequent poll I voted on July 20th for "Bottom 5"
I didn't bother voting on this particular poll, such was my disillusionment, both with Villa and with having to justify my gloomy predictions with the many over-optimistic / delusional posters on here.
Can you only achieve 'Nostradamus' status if you posted on this poll?
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Our saving grace this season is that there are so many other shite teams that will be worse than us.
Going for a miserable 14th.
you say so many, yet by suggesting 14th you're also there's only 6 teams worse. Doesn't make sense.
Only 2 places off my prediction...AM managed to get the team playing even lower than my expectations and 7pts off 14th place! What a muppet!
fuck I voted 7th. How wrong was I? What a disaster last season was.
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Can somebody resurrect last year's manager thread, where the Scottish manager arrives - I want to relive that 9/11 moment of disbelief and despair in preparation for this year's bombshell.
Thread from the beginning
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.0
And I believe this is the stage where AM started to surface.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.5415
Quite amusing reading some of it now, some great posts including
"Its not bad news, its just a bookie's odds.
McLeish isnt going to be Villa manager any more than Barbara Streissand."
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Can somebody resurrect last year's manager thread, where the Scottish manager arrives - I want to relive that 9/11 moment of disbelief and despair in preparation for this year's bombshell.
Thread from the beginning
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.0
And I believe this is the stage where AM started to surface.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.5415
Quite amusing reading some of it now, some great posts including
"Its not bad news, its just a bookie's odds.
McLeish isnt going to be Villa manager any more than Barbara Streissand."
Reading that thread just sent a shiver down my spine. It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.
"If you think Randy would offer the job to McLeish then you are retarded.
Sorry, but it's true."
What a waste of a year.
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Although it is quite amusing looking back at it now, especially with some of the posts, I have to say I still start feeling a bit sick when I get to the stage where I realised it was going to be AM.
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I was being generous thinking we would finish 12th, note to self - ok stop looking back now... keep looking forward!
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Can somebody resurrect last year's manager thread, where the Scottish manager arrives - I want to relive that 9/11 moment of disbelief and despair in preparation for this year's bombshell.
Thread from the beginning
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.0
And I believe this is the stage where AM started to surface.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.5415
Quite amusing reading some of it now, some great posts including
"Its not bad news, its just a bookie's odds.
McLeish isnt going to be Villa manager any more than Barbara Streissand."
So, How's Paulie's Shingles, anyone?
And did Maz ever meet Barbara Streisand?
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I voted 12th.
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Voted 16th.
The defence is rank bad, and minus the best performer last season (Walker), and possibly minus our best central defender (Cuellar). I have no faith in Eck performing miracles and getting them to play well, indeed Dunne is another year older and will possibly decline still further.
The midfield is far and away weaker than last year, having been shorn of its two best players. We have a good signing in N'Zogbia, but that is a very poor trade for Young AND Downing. Petrov is not going to miraculously become a 90 minute player, and beyond him we have no one that can tackle in he squad. EWe will miss Coker this year. Delph seems very injury prone. Makoun may do better, but needs to as he was not great last season. I fully expect Ireland to comtinue to be poor, based on his pre season form being no better than last season. Albrighton looks jaded, though I would hope he will improve.
Up front we have Bent, best hope he does not get injured as without him we could be in the relegation mix again.
Can't see past a bloody awful season tbh.
And the Nostradamus Award for 2011-2012 goes to...
I voted 12th for the record.
Would rather I had been wrong.
I think whoever comes in will get at least four places higher this year though, none of the candidates being mooted are likely to do as badly as Eck.