Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on July 18, 2011, 11:07:10 AM
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www.thebirminghampress.com/2011/07/18/its-not-selling-its-re-building/
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Good article. We'll all have to see what goodies you get to write about next week (hopefully)
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I would'nt say Citeh have become a selling club just because Tevez is on his way. I believe there are completely different circumstances to why he's on his bike.
I agree Carlos is a strange one. As you pointed out Dave, 4 and a bit managers cant all be wrong.
Good read that.
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Good article Dave I agree with it.
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Great piece that Mr Woodhall, you should think of taking up writing books or something :)
Cheers mate !!!
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good points, well made
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Great article, cheers Dave.
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I would'nt say Citeh have become a selling club just because Tevez is on his way. I believe there are completely different circumstances to why he's on his bike.
Quite. Tevez is adamant that he wants to move home to be closer to his family, it isn't like City are selling one of their best players for the 4th time in two years because a bigger club have come along.
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I would'nt say Citeh have become a selling club just because Tevez is on his way. I believe there are completely different circumstances to why he's on his bike.
Quite. Tevez is adamant that he wants to move home to be closer to his family, it isn't like City are selling one of their best players for the 4th time in two years because a bigger club have come along.
As Dave says they're higher up the food chain on account of being the richest club in the world but even they have to sell when a player wants to leave.
The key line is "you sign players from clubs below you then they go to clubs above. The trick is to be able to pick them up cheaply and know when to sell them, then invest the profits wisely."
Last year we invested wisely by buying Darren Bent, I'm hoping/expecting that we do the same again.
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The other part of it is to continually move up the food chain. Our recent losses simply indicate where we are in football's hierarchy. Hopefully as things improve we'll be able to retain our better players for longer, but whether we like it or not, as long as there is a bigger predator in the jungle we are likely to be a victim at some point.
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I admire you for your optamism ;)
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I admire you for your optamism ;)
disappointing reality I'm afraid for us and the vast majority of football clubs everywhere. Man City are top of the money food chain, but even they simply can't get whoever they want because players simply don't respect their standing in the game. If it was just about money they would have signed the very best already and they haven't. Man U have far more pull, yet even they lost their best player to Real Madrid. They just sold him when the offer was too great.
The further down the food chain you go, clubs getting offered £20m for Downing, £50m for Torres or £35m for Carroll simply can't say no forever because it doesn't make financial sense to do so. The challenge is as it always has been, what do you do next? The secret is to find numerous £5m players and turn them into a team full of £10-£15m players and win a few things along the way to disuade them from leaving. Much easier said than done.
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Other similarly sized clubs seem to be more successful in hanging on to their better players, and also replace them more easily when they do sell.
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Other similarly sized clubs seem to be more successful in hanging on to their better players, and also replace them more easily when they do sell.
Agree
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It could be argued that the Barry money funded the Milner money,which funded the Bent money.
MON couldn't sell his mistakes which has drowned the club in wage costs, his big margin buy and sell on for profit have been negated by this, so he couldn't move the club on funded by positive transfer revenue and RL's cash. And then he left the mess for someone else to sort out. Anyone wonder why he's still out of work ?
Onwards and upwards...I think we will still be a net spender this window and the process will continue. Hopefully AM will wheel and deal even better than MON and we will move forward again.
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Other similarly sized clubs seem to be more successful in hanging on to their better players, and also replace them more easily when they do sell.
do they? When Newcastle or Everton or Sunderland got big offers for their big players, they all sold too. It just that they didn't get hit in 3 consecutive years as we did because they didn't have that depth of quality. It's also no surprise that players that got targeted with us and those clubs were all English. maybe the secret it to have as few top English players as possible.
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That article pretty sums up how I see things with regards to the 'food chain', Carlos Cueller and Downing.
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You wouldn't know from reading that, that Carlos Cuellar was played by both Martin O'Neill and Kev MacDonald on almost every occasion he was available and was a lynch pin in one of the most effective defences we have had in my 30 odd years of watching Villa. As far as I know, he has been injured since McLeish arrived having delayed having his knee operation until the season was over.
He started 98 games in only 3 seasons and our record with him in the team last season in league and cup games was W9 D3 L4
It is astonishing that anyone would insinuate that the fact he didn't kick up a public fuss about being left out of the team last season is indicative of a player happy to pick up a large wage for doing nothing. Almost as ridiculous as equating our transfer spending to Man City's on the basis of the Tevez situation.
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I think Risso is, as usual, on about Spurs. Spurs who attract players of the calibre of Van der Vaart purely due to the London factor. I'd say we wheel and deal a lot better than Newcastle and we have a lot more ambition (read that as "cash") than Everton.
The article is pretty near spot-on as usual but I think it will take a lot longer than a week to find out where we stand. It's unrealistic to think we can just sign our top target in each position and get them ITSOTP in a matter of days.
I wouldn't be surprised to see us haggling well into the back end of August. I can live with it this year. We don't have UEFA Cup deadlines to worry about and it's understandable that a new boss will take longer than usual to bring players in due to having to draw up a completely new shortlist.
Hopefully by next transfer window things will be more settled and we will be able to prepare and then buy players (if required) with not too much messing around... like Houllier managed to do in January.
EDIT: just remembered it's VD, not Risso, who is always on about Spurs... although just to prove me wrong he doesn't metion them in the above post! Apologies Risso.
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Spurs have lost players too. They've just done a better job than almost every other team of "our size" in replacing them. if they don't get into the CL this season they'll find they'll lose a lot more of those top players. It won't matter where they are located.
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I agree with every word of that Dave, although I usually agree with your posts in generally. In fact, I think I'm in love with you.
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Spurs have lost players too. They've just done a better job than almost every other team of "our size" in replacing them. if they don't get into the CL this season they'll find they'll lose a lot more of those top players. It won't matter where they are located.
I think at least a little bit of their ability to do a better job is about this...
Spurs transfer balance sheet - Clickyl (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/transferbilanz/verein_148.htm)
Villa transfer balance sheet - Clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/aston-villa/transferbilanz/verein_405.html)
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Who are Transfermarkt that make them the definitive place to go for this info?
Genuine question, if I'm to take what you have posted as fact I need to know where they are getting their stuff from.
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A video that is more interesting than discussing Villa and Spurs' balance sheets again...
Link (http://tinyurl.com/6qafao).
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You wouldn't know from reading that, that Carlos Cuellar was played by both Martin O'Neill and Kev MacDonald on almost every occasion he was available and was a lynch pin in one of the most effective defences we have had in my 30 odd years of watching Villa. As far as I know, he has been injured since McLeish arrived having delayed having his knee operation until the season was over.
He started 98 games in only 3 seasons and our record with him in the team last season in league and cup games was W9 D3 L4
It is astonishing that anyone would insinuate that the fact he didn't kick up a public fuss about being left out of the team last season is indicative of a player happy to pick up a large wage for doing nothing. Almost as ridiculous as equating our transfer spending to Man City's on the basis of the Tevez situation.
Yes, it's quite frankly amazing anyone would say a word at odds with your interpretation of the facts isn't it?
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Who are Transfermarkt that make them the definitive place to go for this info?
Genuine question, if I'm to take what you have posted as fact I need to know where they are getting their stuff from.
There isn't a definitive online source of free transfer data that I'm aware of. Transfermarkt isn't perfect but are more comprehensive than soccerbase and at least as accurate. It's the best online source of transfer data that I know of but I'd be happy to find a better source if anyone knows of one.
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The problem is that the optimism that the RL MON arrival bought has completely dissapeared. We are back to being considred a mid ranking Pl club. Our better players upsticks at the first opportunity. We can interperate this as a rebuilding plan or a consolidation of us as a making up the numbers.
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People seem to be underestimating the effects of the Financial Fair Play rules.
Even if Randy wanted to spend hundreds of millions, he can't. Our best hope is that Clark, Lichaj, Delph, Gary Gardner, Bannan, Albrighton and a few other youngsters all turn out to be World beaters.
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Thanks for that Mr W
An entertaining and challenging read - keep up the good work fella.
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Spurs have lost players too. They've just done a better job than almost every other team of "our size" in replacing them. if they don't get into the CL this season they'll find they'll lose a lot more of those top players. It won't matter where they are located.
I think at least a little bit of their ability to do a better job is about this...
Spurs transfer balance sheet - Clickyl (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/transferbilanz/verein_148.htm)
Villa transfer balance sheet - Clicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/aston-villa/transferbilanz/verein_405.html)
NRC cost £11,000,000 ? ;-(