Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: london lion on July 17, 2011, 06:52:03 PM
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Good news about Given and hopefully N'Zogbia,but i've got big worries that Big Eck will go in to the new season with the trundling drunk and club foot Collins as his 2 first choice centre backs
I know there's talk of Dann being bought in,but really ? he had half a decent season.
Is it time for a bank buster like Cahill being bought back or somebody like that ?
With Cuellar going back to Rangers we are so threadbare at centre back in my opinion,its going to take a bit of time for Given to get used to playing behind a new defence and im concerned we will ship goals like crazy in the first few games unless we get a real quality centre half into the team
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I reckon Cieran Clark will be a regular in the team at centre back this season, one thing McLeish does know is how to organise a defence and reckon he could bring out the undoubted potential in Clark
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I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that McLeish will go into the seasin with 3 CB's. I'd put money on us having signed one more CB by August 31st.
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I actually think the defence will be alot better this coming season , yes I know that wont be hard , but I think AM will get it pretty tight at the back ..
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We have to sign a solid CB a main stay at the back, Dunne don't do it any more neither does Collins, to put all that on Clarke at this point in his career is way to much, he needs another couple of seasons to get him fully blooded in and then to see how good he is, we need a leader at the back, someone with organizational skills that don't flap, we have to sign that somebody, sooner rather than later.
This week.
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Eh?
Scott Dann had half a good year?
He has been quality since he went to blues which was two years ago, he has been injured for half of one season, but quality for the 18 months previous at the top level.
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If we don't sign anyone in central defence we will be fine as we will have much better organised and motivated players and a younger goalkeeper.
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You must be joking! Also, the cover is weaker with Petrov's legs gone & NRC plain gone. The stress all round comes from so many gone & no players in. Even signing Given has taken weeks. The club needs to get very busy this week.
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If we don't sign anyone in central defence we will be fine as we will have much better organised and motivated players and a younger goalkeeper.
With all due respect we are talking about Aston Villa....................
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I'm confident that the great Cieran Clark will be promoted in the starting 11, but I'd be very surprised, and upset, if the pair Dunne & Collins should be confirmed.
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I think we can afford to let Cuellar go if McLeish has plans to use Beye as a back up centre back along with Collins, Clark and Dunne. Personally, I'd like Villa to sign Dann and play him next to Clark. Clark is going to be a cracker, perhaps not ready just yet to play a whole season but he has to start somewhere.
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Beye ? Christ I hope he's a better centre back than he's a right back.
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I think we can afford to let Cuellar go if McLeish has plans to use Beye as a back up centre back along with Collins, Clark and Dunne. Personally, I'd like Villa to sign Dann and play him next to Clark. Clark is going to be a cracker, perhaps not ready just yet to play a whole season but he has to start somewhere.
Very valid point, and you could spoil the player in going to soon, if we where a club that had other very good defenders around him and influencing him i would say no problem Clark can do a season, no problem, but just who can Clark fall back on when he he's under pressure and having to deal with world class forwards coming at him left right and centre.
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How many world class forwards are there in the premiership lol. I think Clark is ready too step forward and will give his all, last season he showed he has a top attitude. Think him and Dunne could be a good pairing. Please god though not Beye as back up
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Every forward coming at him will feel like world class if we defend like we did last season, we need to get a quality central defender or we will pay the price, Clark IMO does not have the experience for a full season and one that maybe under pressure.
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Given the size of the squad at the moment, I think we'd have no choice but to use Beye amongst the subs somewhere. McLeish should be making the guy actually do some work for his money!! Not that I rate him at all but the facts are that the squad looks thin, although, arguably slightly better in terms of defensive numbers.
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If Clark picks up bookings at the rate he did last season , he'll be sitting out a few games.
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If Clark picks up bookings at the rate he did last season , he'll be sitting out a few games.
Classic example of lack of maturity in his game.....he'll learn not to get involved, chuck him in at the deep end and he'll end up getting crocked.
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Scott Dann for me please
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If the Goalkeeper is sorted the next priority must be the defence. Young is Ok but getting on a bit and will get injuries Dunne and Collins are not good enough, we have no recognised left back unless you include Warnock who is a liability. I dont expect a new back 4 but we need two decent defenders at least.
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We need to sign one.
A bloody good one at that.
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If the Goalkeeper is sorted the next priority must be the defence. Young is Ok but getting on a bit and will get injuries Dunne and Collins are not good enough, we have no recognised left back unless you include Warnock who is a liability. I dont expect a new back 4 but we need two decent defenders at least.
I think the 2 signing this week will be
Given and Hutton.
We need then to look to bring in a quality Central Defender, for me we are then set up at the back, we look at Dunne or Collins or Clark, Young has always put in a good shift at LB if Warnock doesn't fit.
So new inclusions at the back, good quality CD and Hutton and Given, that's sound for me, I would expect Hutton to be a better player under AM than he is for Redknapp, that's my guess.
We need then to do something by the end of the week both in midfield and wide.
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I'd like to think that we can get the majority of the business done before Villa fly off to play in the tournament. Given is a done deal apparently. Hopefully, we'll have three or four other deals lined up and ready to complete.
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Think Villa fans should give Dunne and Collins a chance to get back to the form they showed as a partnership two seasons back. That was the best partnership I can remember at Villa Park and conceded the least amount of goals in about ten years. Cuellar was a help to them with his height at set pieces alright but still Dunne and Collins were excellent that season. I'm worried about both our full back positions not particularly at centre half. Hutton hasn't looked much of a defender with Spurs but maybe McLeish might get more out of him.
I honestly think Given will make a big difference in goal and I'm pretty confident Dunne will be back to his best anyway next season. Collins scares me a bit but reckon he will turn it around too.
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The one thing that shouldn't be dimissed entirely is that we did have one of the best defences in the PL prior to last season with many of the same players that are at the club today. I know that GH changing the system mid season really didn't help so maybe with a CB as manager the current lot with Given behind them can find their form again. I do agree that one quality CB and a quality full back would only help matters.
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From what I've seen of Hutton, I dont rate him at all...made a massive blunder in a preseason game for Spurs the other day too which only confirms my doubts about him.
If Cuellar goes for the ridiculously low price being quoted then an additional CB is essential...only takes a couple of injuries and we'd be right up shit creek.
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We need to sign one.
A bloody good one at that.
This for me.
Dunne and Collins = scary
Clark = a little too lightweight at the moment, reminds me of a young Gary Cahill, massive potential
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I would think he will go out and buy at least one centre back hopefully Dann to play alongside Clark would also be my preferred choice of central defenders.
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Dunne & Collins will, in my opinion, be more like they were under MON than they were under GH. If this is to be the case, then I don't think centre-backs is our main priority and we don't have much too worry about.
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I'm expecting Collins and Dunne to thrive under McLeish too and Clark is aplayer Ive been sure will make it as a top player since I first saw him a few years ago now. But I'm yet to be convinced with Baker although he's suprised me to a degree. I do feel there is another spot open with Cuellar leaving and Dann would be ideal.
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I'm expecting Collins and Dunne to thrive under McLeish too and Clark is aplayer Ive been sure will make it as a top player since I first saw him a few years ago now. But I'm yet to be convinced with Baker although he's suprised me to a degree. I do feel there is another spot open with Cuellar leaving and Dann would be ideal.
Certainly need another centre back if Cuellar is off.
I can't see Baker being up to it, to be honest.
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Baker might benefit from a loan spell somewhere I reckon, see what he's made of in the Championship/League One and get a bit of experience.
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Given, Clark and Dunne - the new / old back three core: new to Villa, old to the Rep of Ireland. Great combination and seemingly an established team.
Add Collins and Baker as back-up (and the possibility of a new signing) we can now focus on LB where there is definitely need for a recruit. RB is covered by LY and Lichaj.
This gives us a strong defensive squad.
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I always thought Shane Lowry had promise.
We still have him too.
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I think we need a new quality addition. While I think Dunne can improve on last years poor season,he can't be too far away from being 32. Collins looks better when his partner is settled and consistant.
With the back four as it is now,I'd be worried about the lack of pace as well.
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Yeah. With Cuellar going, I think we need a big replacement who's going to walk straight into the team. Dunne, Collins and Clark can fight it out to partner him at the back.
Baker adds extra cover, at LB too.
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Not sure we need another centre half. 3 is enough as McLeish wont be one for rotation. Maybe someone who could cover full back and centre half if there was one going cheap. Bassong perhaps. The time to flog Dunne will be after the Euros. Defenders tend to last a bit longer but Dunne's lack of professionalism at various times during his career is likely to shorten his shelf life as a top central defender. Im worried about Collins more so, a swap deal plus some 6m or so could tempt Dann but Collins will hardly drop a division.
Central midfield is a more pressing priority right now. Too many questions marks about our options there we need an experienced dominant player to come in.
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Won't Baker just be a back up LB like he was last season? I know he had a shocker against Wolves but he looked o.k there in the other games including up at wigan where he kept one Charles N'zogbia reasonably quiet.
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Won't Baker just be a back up LB like he was last season? I know he had a shocker against Wolves but he looked o.k there in the other games including up at wigan where he kept one Charles N'zogbia reasonably quiet.
I think what we'll see is A N Other fullback come in, hence the strongish Hutton links, so that we can have any two from three with Young and Warnock, which should work nicely given Young's versatility. Baker and Lichaj, who still might go back out on loan, will be for emergencies only, IMO.
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We simply can't go into the season with three senior centre-backs, given the almighty injury problems we had on occasions there last time.
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I even think it's wrong to say '3 senior centre backs' given the age and experience of Clark.
We need to replace Cuellar and Dann's the man!
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I can't understand letting Cuellar go (although as someone said elsewhere 4 different managers last year didn't rate him) unless we're going to buy a straight-into-the-team replacement such as Dann. Alternatively McLeish may think he can manage with Dunne/Collins/Clarke and as a last resort to cover injuries he could draft in Beye who's played there before (*runs for cover*)
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Oi, come back from your cover.....!
Beye's the worst centre-back I've ever seen (remembers Gus Caesar, but holds firm). That won't be happening.
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Oi, come back from your cover.....!
Beye's the worst centre-back I've ever seen (remembers Gus Caesar, but holds firm). That won't be happening.
Beye's played about 40 minutes at centre-back for us and did alright.
His only dreadful game was when he was playing at left-back. Other than that he's been alright when needed.
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You think? Fair enough then. But I saw him play 45 mins there in a pre-season friendly last summer (when the Evening Mail reported the next day he was looking lean and determined to win his place back) and he was all over the place, really jittery. Plus, I'm sure I saw him there in a Europa League game and he looked similarly dreadful.
Not for me, I'm afraid.
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Corluka for Beye and I'd be happy with our defensive options, Dunne, Collins, Clark, Warnock, Young, Corluka, Lichaj, Baker, Lowry and even Herd/Delph in emergencies.
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Beye is shit and quite content to sit on his arse and get his money for another season.
What club in their right mind is going to take on a defender who is 34 in october and on 42k per week??
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I'm just hoping someone will take one at £20k a week. Even if we give him away and make up the balance of his salary, that's £1m saved.
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I'm just hoping someone will take one at £20k a week. Even if we give him away and make up the balance of his salary, that's £1m saved.
John IIRC Ipswich wanted him back in January but he refused. This is his last season in the big time so who in their right mind would give up 2 million quid??
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I'm just hoping someone will take one at £20k a week. Even if we give him away and make up the balance of his salary, that's £1m saved.
John IIRC Ipswich wanted him back in January but he refused. This is his last season in the big time so who in their right mind would give up 2 million quid??
My argument is that if we make up whatever short fall his wages would have due to the move, then he wouldn't miss out at all. And in ur benefit we effectively 'save' whatever the new club pays him, which for a an experienced PL player should be around £1m a year.
However, if he doesn't care about playing football at all and would rather sit on his arse, then we're fucked either way!
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i think we sue Beye and his agent as selling a service under false pretences.
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Scott Dann for me please
Thing is with Dann he is a left footed CB, we have Dunne who prefers to play LCB and also Clark who is a left footed CB. So if we buy Dann, Clark wouldnt get a game and either Collins or Dunne would start to cause unrest due to lack of games. I think a fullback is more needed imo.
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I'm not sure dann is left footed. It doesn't sound like there's a cat in hell's chance anyway.
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I'm not sure dann is left footed. It doesn't sound like there's a cat in hell's chance anyway.
I'd love to know why he hasn't yet signed for Stoke. Just adds fuel to the fire and gives me some hope!!
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Dann is left footed. Looks like Carlos is going to turn down Rangers anyway.
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Scott Dann for me please
Thing is with Dann he is a left footed CB, we have Dunne who prefers to play LCB and also Clark who is a left footed CB. So if we buy Dann, Clark wouldnt get a game and either Collins or Dunne would start to cause unrest due to lack of games. I think a fullback is more needed imo.
So we shouldnt sign a better centre back than Collins or Dunne because either one might get the arsehole over it,is that what your saying ?
After last season' performances both on and off the pitch,the pair of them should have there contracts ripped up,payed off and sent out the door with there tails well and truly between there legs
Threatened a true legend of our club with physical violence,one was heard to gloat in the players bar after a home defeat "he thought it was funny,and at least it pushes the manager closer to the sack"
Both Richard Dunne and James Collins are awful,awful footballers,and most of the goals we conceeded last season were down to them pair in my opinion,Ciaran Clark has been lorded on this thread and rightly so,but i really dont think he is ready
to shoulder the massive responsibility of leading the back four,which is what basically a centre hal does.
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Not worried at all by a defence, Even last year it was more down to with how they were organised. However for me midfield is a big big problem.
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If we sell Cuellar, we have to sign a centre back.
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Think Dunne will play better with his mate behind him.