Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Gervilla81 on July 15, 2011, 09:24:00 AM
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A £2m bid from Rangers has been accepted for Carlos Cuellar.
Mixed emotions from myself on this one would love to see Carlos return to Rangers from a selfish point of view (being Rangers fan all my 30 years)
but from a Villa fan point of view it is alarming that again we are selling another good player, without having any ready made replacements lined up
I know we still have Collins, Dunne and Clark who can play centre half but IMO Cuellar given a proper chance would have shown he was a better bet than any of them
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Oh dear. He's our best centre half.
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Gutted if this is true. Prefer him to Dunne and Collins, just seems to feel more for the club.
£2m is nothing although not sure on how long he has on his contract.
It is obvious but we need players in! I am not happy to put all the trust in kids.
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Hells bells, when are we gonna stop floggin our better players? Perhaps if he'd have abused Sid he'd have got a look-in, instead we'll have to limp on with Collins and Dunne.
Good luck Carlos. Great man, good player.
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For fucks sake !!!!!
Hugely disappointing if true.
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Gutted.
Good luck Carlos.
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Dear me, not a great passer of the ball, but a decent defender.
Maybe Dann is coming ?
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I'm beginning to wonder if this 'mass exodus' signifies that's something is really wrong at our club. Is RL in fianacial difficulty or something?
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Bloody hell, this is fast becoming a mass exodus.
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If this is true, £2m for a player of his quality is ridiculous. McCleish's first mistake.
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We must have Dann lined up.
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Bollocks. Another one gone.
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To get someone in AS GOOD as Carlos would cost a damn sight more than £2m.
To get someome better would cost £multi millions.
So, why spend money on replacement we don't actually need.
Meanwhile fucking wastrels like Beye, Ireland and Warnock will continue to take their money and the piss, and are not lnked with going anywhere.
It just all seems like madness to me.
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The latest artivle on Pravda has McLeish praising Warnock.
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Gutted to see Carlos go, we'll need to get a new centre half as well.
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Gutted to see Carlos go, we'll need to get a new centre half as well.
Not if McLeish is appointed player-manager.
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What is going on ?
Lerner better have five or six players lined up or he will face a bit of a fan's reaction I think.
Cueller is our best defender by far.
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Never going to be first choice so not too fussed as long as we buy a better replacement.
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No big deal for me, I am well documented on here for thinking he is not very good - though I entirely agree with the sentiment about how short all this is starting to make us look in terms of cover. Nice chap though I think
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For me he was a better half then Dunne and Collins, I would have liked to have seen him with Clark.
So how many centre halves have we got now?
More worrying is the fact that we paid what 8 million for him. When it comes to spunking money we are up there with the best
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scott dann- come on down!
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I would be sad to see him go another one that's got away I wish him all the best for the future.
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scott dann- come on down!
I think you may be right there.
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Never going to be first choice so not too fussed as long as we buy a better replacement.
Never going to be first choice although he should be and it's going to cost us a lot more to get someone half as good to replace him. AMc must feel he can get the best out of Collins and Dunne.
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scott dann- come on down!
I think you may be right there.
He will cost more than Johnson.
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Can I suggest that we re-open this when it's actually confirmed by something a bit more concrete than yet another rumour on Sky Sports?
i.e when one of the two clubs in question has it on their website.
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Good enough? (http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/07/15/aston-villa-carlos-cuellar-s-agent-says-fee-has-been-agreed-with-rangers-97319-29062303/)
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Looks like it's a done deal. Goodbye and good luck, Carlos.
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Bye Carlos and good luck. You unlike another player have shown Villa plenty of respect and will be missed. We now need another centre half.
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never rated him...
8 million was an absolute joke on a par with the 20 million the bin dippers just paid for downing...
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The Carlos situation is a weird one. I can't really recall him letting us down when played as a CB and yet MON, GH and now seemingly AM don't rate him there. Maybe that's why they are paid millions to be managers and i'm not, but does anyone know why no one at B6 seems to want to play him at CB?
I really like Carlos, the only Villa player i've ever seen that runs like a girl.
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David Platt ran like a girl.
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Always rated him. Always liked him.
Carlos, if you ever come back to play against us at VP you will get a cheer from me. Just make sure its not with Glasgow Rangers though.
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I can't believe we'll go into the season with just 2 senior CB's and 2 kids even if one is very promising in Clark. It must mean that they've identified another target to replace Cuellar and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it is Dann. Cuellar is a good person, very respectful and a good player. But you have to wonder why 3 consecutive managers, all of whom at some point in their careers have achieved success in the game have decided not to play him as much as we as fans thought he should be played.
It's not like he was first choice so it's unlike the the two most recent departures. I hope that now we go out an get a proven starting CB to add depth and quality to our squad.
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The best centre half at the club. It's plain stupid to let him go.
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For me Clark needs to play 20 games next season, at least.I also think Baker looks very promising, and maybe long term could be the ideal partner for Clark.
That means we will have Collins, Dunne , Beye and CC who can al play central defence.Now much as i would like them all to go, i think we have to be realistic that it would not be sensible to do so, and that we need to keep 2, and bring 1 in.So if CC is seen as surplus, then fine by me.
Personally i would get rid of Dunne and Collins 1st, and keep CC.
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He cost us £8m and he's on 55k a week. Rightly or wrongly 4 managers (five if you count Gaz Mac) had him behind Dunne and Collins. He's an average fullback.
I rate him, and I'm disappointed he's gone, but at a time when we're trying to spend more wisely it'd be silly not to sell him now to let him go for nothing next Summer. He's a luxury we don't need when we're not in Europe.
Put it this way, 55k a week for a year is £2.8m and a £2m transfer fee. Is one year of Carlos Cuellar, making about 12 league starts, worth £5m?
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The best centre half at the club. It's plain stupid to let him go.
But not part of the best partnership.
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I think the reason that Houllier didn't play him more last season was his injury problems. He probably needed surgery before, but Houllier didn't trust Collins/Dunne enough to have Cuellar sidelined for a longer spell.
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Really? There were a couple of times that Clark was brought on ahead of Cuellar when both were on the bench...
There was also Wolves away, Cuellar started, played really well and was dropped in favour of Dunne the week after.
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I can't recall him having anything worse than an average game for us. Can't say that about Collins or that fat bastard Dunne.
Never managed to put the ball out for a corner when he's 50 yards from goal under no pressure, either.
But not part of the best partnership.
He was hardly given a chance at CB to form a partnership. I assume the managers have had their reasons, but when you consider some of the appalling perfomances our alleged best partnership served up last season,you have to wonder.
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This does worry me a little,as were left with two inexperienced youngsters in Clark and Baker,Collins who lacks consistency and Dunne who's past it.
Hopefully someone else is lined up,but as always with Villa,why don't we buy first then sell.
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Really? There were a couple of times that Clark was brought on ahead of Cuellar when both were on the bench...
There was also Wolves away, Cuellar started, played really well and was dropped in favour of Dunne the week after.
Pure guesswork on my part. Not saying that he would have been an automatic first-choice if not injured, but I got the impression that he would have been given more of a chance if there weren't doubts about his fitness.
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I for one will be glad to see him go, I can count on one hand the times he played well. O'Neill bought him and never played him, when he did, it was out of position.
Houllier came in, never played him.
McLeish has come in and decided to sell him.
Doesn't really say much for what Carlos shows on the training ground.
I'm the first to criticize to my mates a player who I think isn't worthy, but I always say I'm happy to be proven wrong as it means he's won me over with amazing, consistent performances. Cuellar will never do that, at any club. Everyone is complaining that we are getting rid of all our players, you forget that some of these guys didn't want to know when we wanted to discuss contracts, Reo-coker for example had offers all over Europe.
We can't make them sign and we shouldn't be held to ransom for unreasonable demands. A clear out will set the record staight, the board said we needed to trim it down. We have done now. Yeah we need to act now, but its July 16th not August 31st.
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The staff at villa I've been told are mighty impressed with Clark and his progress. He's going to be a star for us in the very near future. Maybe villa feel cuellar's wages are far too high for what is in effect 4th choice centre back. And we may as well get some money for him while we can.
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Not happy and this is a piss poor fee.
It goes without saying that we won't be getting a replacement in, and Nathan Baker isn't good enough to be one of the 4 centre halves.
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Funny how things change, I remember when he joined lots of people thought he was a donkey.
How long does Carlos have left on his deal? 1 year?
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When he played at right back, he was a donkey a lot of the time. But that's because he's a centre half.
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Or maybe cuellar, as good a defender as he is, just doesn't click with either dune or Collins when being partnered with either of them
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So Cuellar has 1 year left & he's never been a first team regular. £2m is probably about right, isnt it?
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Or maybe cuellar, as good a defender as he is, just doesn't click with either dune or Collins when being partnered with either of them
Get rid of one of them,preferable Dunne.
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Collins and Dunne were a piss poor partnership for most of last season. Absolutely porous.
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I didn't particularly rate either Collins, dunne or cuellar last season. Every time they got hold of the ball, my heart was in my mouth just waiting for some god almighty cock up to happen. If Dunne can come back to the form we saw in his first season we have a great defender there. Collins switches off to many times in a game for me.
But MON, Houllier and now McLeish seem to have cuellar down the pecking order. So we may as well cash in while we can
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wait a second, cuellar is an ok player at best. Can you cast your minds back to the 2nd half of the season after martin laursen got injured? He and davies were calamitous! last 10 minutes of a game and we always conceded. did ok as defensive right back but has never commanded a regular place in our team. i would say he was a 6 out of 10 player at best!
all this bollocks about him being the best centre back at our club is ridiculous!
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I thought it was Davies & Knight who played a lot of those games.
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He made 85 appearances in his 2 seasons under O'Neill.
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He made 85 appearances in his 2 seasons under O'Neill.
Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young
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Don't play our best defender
Sell him for 1/4 we paid for him
???
Profit
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Bid accepted (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14174349.stm)
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Not happy and this is a piss poor fee.
It goes without saying that we won't be getting a replacement in, and Nathan Baker isn't good enough to be one of the 4 centre halves.
what makes you so sure of that with 6 weeks of the transfer window remaining?
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He made 85 appearances in his 2 seasons under O'Neill.
Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young
Just the 63 appearances for Luke Young during the same 2 seasons.
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......he's on 55k a week.
That can't be right, can it?! He's done fekkin' well out of us if that's so.
I like Cuellar, and I think he's better than Collins. But, one year left, hasn't played much for a couple of years means that £2m is about right, really.
I really hope that there's a new, first choice centre-back coming in....
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He made 85 appearances in his 2 seasons under O'Neill.
Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young
Just the 63 appearances for Luke Young during the same 2 seasons.
Pfft. Facts, schmacts. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.
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......he's on 55k a week.
That can't be right, can it?! He's done fekkin' well out of us if that's so.
I like Cuellar, and I think he's better than Collins. But, one year left, hasn't played much for a couple of years means that £2m is about right, really.
I really hope that there's a new, first choice centre-back coming in....
I think he will. McLeish was a very good CB, so if anyone is going to be able to teach the current lot, or find a new one it will be him. He found Johnson and Dann from Coventry and Cardiff so he's got a good eye. Defence is the one area of the park I think we'll end up being quite decent in.
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......he's on 55k a week.
That can't be right, can it?! He's done fekkin' well out of us if that's so.
I like Cuellar, and I think he's better than Collins. But, one year left, hasn't played much for a couple of years means that £2m is about right, really.
I really hope that there's a new, first choice centre-back coming in....
No way is he on £55k a week. Rangers can't/couldn't afford to pay him half that when he was there and there's no way we would have doubled his wages when he came. £30k-£40k I imagine.
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We need to get an absolutely class centre half. Cuellar had his failings but he was definitely better than Dullins managed last season.
The thing with Dann is that he strikes me as too much like Clark which means it could be a case of either or rather than a solid first choice pairing.
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Gary Cahill?..........
Ryan Shawcross?
Chris Samba?
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Gary Cahill?..........
Ryan Shawcross?
Chris Samba?
Cahill and Daniel Sturridge would be brilliant additions to our squad....but too pricy!
Why the f**K did we let them go in the first place - esp Cahill?
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He made 85 appearances in his 2 seasons under O'Neill.
Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young
Just the 63 appearances for Luke Young during the same 2 seasons.
Or 18 league and cup appearances in MON's last season, i.e. the season of the fall out. It's worth mentioning that it was also the season his brother died so missed about 3 months. No selective use of stats here.
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Zat Knight was seen at bodymoor on friday afternoon!
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Could you imagine the volte faces if Cahill came back?
Sadly, he'd be very expensive what with the English Players Tax.
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......he's on 55k a week.
That can't be right, can it?! He's done fekkin' well out of us if that's so.
I like Cuellar, and I think he's better than Collins. But, one year left, hasn't played much for a couple of years means that £2m is about right, really.
I really hope that there's a new, first choice centre-back coming in....
No way is he on £55k a week. Rangers can't/couldn't afford to pay him half that when he was there and there's no way we would have doubled his wages when he came. £30k-£40k I imagine.
Why not? I doubt Wigan were paying Heskey 65k, Boro paying Luke Young 45k, Reading playing Shorey 40k or Newcastle paying Beye 45k...
He has a year left and he's not gonna get that deal so he'd take a paycut for a longer contract form Rangers.
If Cuellar's on less than 40k I'd be amazed. 55k's just what I'd read elsewhere on here, I believe.
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It goes without saying that we won't be getting a replacement in,
Fiver says we do in this transfer window.
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Will be sad to see Carlos go. He's given us 100% and had a bit of a rough deal compared to Dunn and Collins.
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It goes without saying that we won't be getting a replacement in,
Fiver says we do in this transfer window.
I'll take that bet.
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I think Houllier has to carry the can for this, he played out of his skin against Wolves away last season, then was bafflingly dropped for the next game and rarely featured again.
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It goes without saying that we won't be getting a replacement in,
Fiver says we do in this transfer window.
I'll take that bet.
I'll collect it in The Bartons!
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That is a shame. Liked Carlos a lot. Honest hard working reliable and the only spanish player in the world who couldn't pass!
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Gary Cahill?..........
Ryan Shawcross?
Chris Samba?
Just for the record, I'd be over the moon, Brian, if we signed Shawcross. He looks like a very good defender indeed.
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......he's on 55k a week.
That can't be right, can it?! He's done fekkin' well out of us if that's so.
I like Cuellar, and I think he's better than Collins. But, one year left, hasn't played much for a couple of years means that £2m is about right, really.
I really hope that there's a new, first choice centre-back coming in....
No way is he on £55k a week. Rangers can't/couldn't afford to pay him half that when he was there and there's no way we would have doubled his wages when he came. £30k-£40k I imagine.
Why not? I doubt Wigan were paying Heskey 65k, Boro paying Luke Young 45k, Reading playing Shorey 40k or Newcastle paying Beye 45k...
He has a year left and he's not gonna get that deal so he'd take a paycut for a longer contract form Rangers.
If Cuellar's on less than 40k I'd be amazed. 55k's just what I'd read elsewhere on here, I believe.
To lure Heskey away from Wigan (fuck me, how strange does that sound?) we would have had to top up his salary, and Liverpool were interested in him at the time aswell so we had to fend them off too.
Beye was a high-earner at Newcastle hence them offloading him when they got relegated so I imagine he retained his wages. Shorey and Young...we were desperate to get full-backs at the time, O'Neill presumably implored Lerner to pay them whatever it took.
The reason I think Cuellar is different is that wages in Scotland, even among the Glasgow clubs, are more on a par with lower Prem/Championship clubs so I doubt we would have had to throw too much more than £10k a week at Carlos to get him here.
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Why, at £2m, is it only Rangers who are interested?
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Why, at £2m, is it only Rangers who are interested?
Know what you're saying... Although, he may just really, really want to go back up north and has let his agent know that's the only destination he's willing to travel to.
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If he's only going to be a squad player, as looks likely, and if he's on £55k then I guess it makes sense. Seems a shame though.
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Our biggest mistake since selling Cahill. It could be argued selling Young & Downing make sence financially. I would have Carlos & Cahill at the back all day long.
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He must be one of the most under appreciated players we've had. Selling him for £2m? What the hell???
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He must be one of the most under appreciated players we've had. Selling him for £2m? What the hell???
But, as Chris inferred, nobody else seems to rate him as highly.
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Bearing in mind he can slot in at right back if need be, letting him go for £2m (if that's what it is) is pointless. We should keep him and let him fight for his place, he's a bloody good defender.
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So, we sell Cuellar, leaving us the two CBs who royally fucked us around and acted like ****** almost the whole of last season, and Ciaran Clark.
That must surely mean we're buying a new centre half?
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So, we sell Cuellar, leaving us the two CBs who royally fucked us around and acted like c***s almost the whole of last season, and Ciaran Clark.
That must surely mean we're buying a new centre half?
I hope so and if it is a decent/quality one its gonna cost @ least £8/£10m
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Just £2m? Ludicrous decision unless we've lined up a very solid replacement. Sol Campbell's available I believe, and Steve Simms
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With just 12 months left on his contract & his age £2-3m does not seem too bad a fee, providing the money is going towards a player who will be a first choice defender. I would expect someone like Dann or Shawcross to come in and push Collins down to 4th choice.
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Good player, shame he was mostly played out of position. Give Cieran Clark a proper chance now, wouldnt bother signing Dann for 8-12m!
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Bearing in mind he can slot in at right back if need be, letting him go for £2m (if that's what it is) is pointless. We should keep him and let him fight for his place, he's a bloody good defender.
yep, doesn't make sense. Are we really scrambling under the sofa for loose change that 2m will make all the difference to AM's transfer budget?
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Bearing in mind he can slot in at right back if need be, letting him go for £2m (if that's what it is) is pointless. We should keep him and let him fight for his place, he's a bloody good defender.
yep, doesn't make sense. Are we really scrambling under the sofa for loose change that 2m will make all the difference to AM's transfer budget?
the "Budget" ;D
Eck got relegated last year with them that hate us with a passion
we told him, "you can have the job here at Villa, but you have feck all to spend and we are selling anything that moves"
Eck says "no problem, they are doing that anyway, i still get an amazing wage with a premiership club"
that is the jist of this summer so far?
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Bearing in mind he can slot in at right back if need be, letting him go for £2m (if that's what it is) is pointless. We should keep him and let him fight for his place, he's a bloody good defender.
yep, doesn't make sense. Are we really scrambling under the sofa for loose change that 2m will make all the difference to AM's transfer budget?
the "Budget" ;D
Eck got relegated last year with them that hate us with a passion
we told him, "you can have the job here at Villa, but you have feck all to spend and we are selling anything that moves"
Eck says "no problem, they are doing that anyway, i still get an amazing wage with a premiership club"
that is the jist of this summer so far?
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What about AM evaluating him? Was there a negative evaluation?
More bullshit on top of the other bullshit.
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Jist of the summer,getting rid of the big salaries first of all:
Carew 35-50k
Reo Coker 40k+
Friedel 50k
Young 65k +
Downing 50k +
Cuellar 35-50k
That would go towards cutting the 80m spent on players and wages over the last few seasons. Wouldn't be suprised to see Heskey and Beye on their way out aswell.
Perhaps Randy has had a good go at the 5 year plan, it hasnt paid off and now he's looking at just staying in the league and good cup runs? Who knows? The guy never speaks to us on what is going on.
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Seems we're going from one extreme to the other. Before we had loads of players who never got selected, now we've got a 1st team (well not yet) and erm, the youth.
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Bearing in mind he can slot in at right back if need be, letting him go for £2m (if that's what it is) is pointless. We should keep him and let him fight for his place, he's a bloody good defender.
yep, doesn't make sense. Are we really scrambling under the sofa for loose change that 2m will make all the difference to AM's transfer budget?
the "Budget" ;D
Eck got relegated last year with them that hate us with a passion
we told him, "you can have the job here at Villa, but you have feck all to spend and we are selling anything that moves"
Eck says "no problem, they are doing that anyway, i still get an amazing wage with a premiership club"
that is the jist of this summer so far?
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jesus wept a mod said that today
and lickspittle follows in
just trying to make it easier for you, i speak to the english every day on the phone
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It's a strange one, this.
On the evidence of my own eyes (admittedly not always reliable) Carlos is a solid, dependable centre half.
But three Villa managers in a row now don't seem to share that opinion. And as Chris says, why is it only Rangers coming in for him? If he's had a raw deal here, fair enough. Surely other Prem clubs or a few decent sides in his homeland would take advantage of the situation.
I don't doubt he likes Rangers, and the chance to win things (in an admittedly weak league) must be attractive. But it's a soft option for a pro who can potentially play at a far higher level. Or maybe he can't, maybe his distribution is so woeful no half decent side will look at him.
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It's a strange one, this.
On the evidence of my own eyes (admittedly not always reliable) Carlos is a solid, dependable centre half.
But three Villa managers in a row now don't seem to share that opinion. And as Chris says, why is it only Rangers coming in for him? If he's had a raw deal here, fair enough. Surely other Prem clubs or a few decent sides in his homeland would take advantage of the situation.
I don't doubt he likes Rangers, and the chance to win things (in an admittedly weak league) must be attractive. But it's a soft option for a pro who can potentially play at a far higher level. Or maybe he can't, maybe his distribution is so woeful no half decent side will look at him.
Kevin - rangers can agree a fee with us - no bother - but they are skint
we could agree a fee with man City if we wanted for tevez
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Need another 10 players dont we?
GK-replace Friedel
defender -replace cuellar
right back -replace walker
left back - need cover for Warnock
midfielder - replace Coker
left winger - replace Downing
right winger - replace Young
striker - replace Carew
+ 2 extra players we needed last season.
Or we sign a GK and a left winger and see how it goes with the squad we've got.
Have a first 11 and bring the youth in as and when?
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They're a bit less skint these days.
I think £2 million is too low as well, but he is one of our higher earners (believed to be £40k + week), in the last year of his contract and maybe that level of wage for a guy who isn't going to feature that much can be better spent elsewhere.
McLeish did say he wanted to check Carlos out in pre season training before making any decisions. Well seemingly he has, and this is the result.
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They're a bit less skint these days.
I think £2 million is too low as well, but he is one of our higher earners (believed to be £40k + week), in the last year of his contract and maybe that level of wage for a guy who isn't going to feature that much can be better spent elsewhere.
McLeish did say he wanted to check Carlos out in pre season training before making any decisions. Well seemingly he has, and this is the result.
are they?
they have a big tax bill to pay yet
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They're a bit less skint these days.
I think £2 million is too low as well, but he is one of our higher earners (believed to be £40k + week), in the last year of his contract and maybe that level of wage for a guy who isn't going to feature that much can be better spent elsewhere.
McLeish did say he wanted to check Carlos out in pre season training before making any decisions. Well seemingly he has, and this is the result.
Seemingly.
Is all that we see or seem just a dream within a dream?
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Never thought Carlos had enough quality for the Premier League.
Mcleish clearly wants his own men in. Good luck Carlos.
Love us to get either Dann, Shawcorss or Samba.
Good luck Carlos, top bloke!
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A crash of drums, a flash of light
My golden coat flew out of sight
The colours faded into darkness
I was left alone
May I return to the beginning
The light is dimming, and the dream is too
The world and I, we are still waiting
Still hesitating
Any dream will do
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Need another 10 players dont we?
GK-replace Friedel
defender -replace cuellar
right back -replace walker
left back - need cover for Warnock
midfielder - replace Coker
left winger - replace Downing
right winger - replace Young
striker - replace Carew
+ 2 extra players we needed last season.
Or we sign a GK and a left winger and see how it goes with the squad we've got.
Have a first 11 and bring the youth in as and when?
looking that way. I agree with the numbers if not all the positions you've highlighted, but 10+ players coming in? Can't see it
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All through last season when he wasn't getting a game he didn't seem too upset or want a move to carry on playing. Either that was loyalty above & beyond, or he was content to pick up his wages for minimum effort.
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What people have seen of Carlos is a bloody good centre half doing the best he can at right back other than when he was injured. If he had been played in his true position above those who don't compare in ability at that position then he would be a wanted man.
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All through last season when he wasn't getting a game he didn't seem too upset or want a move to carry on playing. Either that was loyalty above & beyond, or he was content to pick up his wages for minimum effort.
not sure what you mean there. would you have rather he'd thrown his toys out the pram like Ireland? Bottom line is he played pretty well and never complained about being dropped or played out of position. After the amount of whiners last season that should be a positive i reckon.
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I can't either Greg, but to compete with the top 6 its what we need isnt it? I don't know what the ambition is anymore do you?
Sunderland are in a similiar position to us, sold their 2 best players and have splashed the cash, don't know if our motives are the same though.
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I think he's one of those decent pro's who won't just kick up a fuss if he doesn't always get his own way. By all accounts he's popular with the other players too, happy to make a prat of himself (not just with his passing either).
Last season was the first in which he has barely featured, and he doesn't want a repeat. Fair enough, but I would have thought he could do better than Rangers. Maybe I'm wrong.
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On the wider issue of replacing the gaps in the squad, I'd be happy enough if we start the season with the three regular names mentioned on board. Then we'd just need a CB as competition for Dunne and Collins and maybe a wide/ attacking midfielder as back up -possibly on loan. If it's Dann we're after, I can see that dragging on well into late August. With Collins, Dunne and Clark we should be OK in the short term.
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I can't define what an 'X Factor' type is, but Cuellar seems to have it. Moaning about him seems akin to moaning about a beloved child/dog/cat. Not pleasant, but sometimes true.
Anyway, I wish him all the best for the future.
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All through last season when he wasn't getting a game he didn't seem too upset or want a move to carry on playing. Either that was loyalty above & beyond, or he was content to pick up his wages for minimum effort.
not sure what you mean there. would you have rather he'd thrown his toys out the pram like Ireland? Bottom line is he played pretty well and never complained about being dropped or played out of position. After the amount of whiners last season that should be a positive i reckon.
He's never seemed too bothered about not playing.
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I can't either Greg, but to compete with the top 6 its what we need isnt it? I don't know what the ambition is anymore do you?
Sunderland are in a similiar position to us, sold their 2 best players and have splashed the cash, don't know if our motives are the same though.
my guess is we are on the budget route. Certainly a smaller squad than before, lower wages and probably we'll be lucky to spend all the money we've made this summer.
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That's what i think mate. Doing this summer what he asked O'Neil to do.
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I can't either Greg, but to compete with the top 6 its what we need isnt it? I don't know what the ambition is anymore do you?
Sunderland are in a similiar position to us, sold their 2 best players and have splashed the cash, don't know if our motives are the same though.
my guess is we are on the budget route. Certainly a smaller squad than before, lower wages and probably we'll be lucky to spend all the money we've made this summer.
Or it could be that we now have a manager that moves a player on and then replaces him.
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All through last season when he wasn't getting a game he didn't seem too upset or want a move to carry on playing. Either that was loyalty above & beyond, or he was content to pick up his wages for minimum effort.
not sure what you mean there. would you have rather he'd thrown his toys out the pram like Ireland? Bottom line is he played pretty well and never complained about being dropped or played out of position. After the amount of whiners last season that should be a positive i reckon.
He's never seemed too bothered about not playing.
I believe he's a very easy going sort of guy from what i've been told. I'm sure others would have slapped in a transfer request but i'm struggling to imagine him as some sort of Beye figure content to keep taking the cash. The big difference being was Carlos was usually decent to very good whenever he played, while some of the others who took the money without complaints weren't/aren't
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I can't either Greg, but to compete with the top 6 its what we need isnt it? I don't know what the ambition is anymore do you?
Sunderland are in a similiar position to us, sold their 2 best players and have splashed the cash, don't know if our motives are the same though.
my guess is we are on the budget route. Certainly a smaller squad than before, lower wages and probably we'll be lucky to spend all the money we've made this summer.
Or it could be that we now have a manager that moves a player on and then replaces him.
i hope so, and i look forward to him moving onto the shite players instead of concentrating solely on moving on our better ones.
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All through last season when he wasn't getting a game he didn't seem too upset or want a move to carry on playing. Either that was loyalty above & beyond, or he was content to pick up his wages for minimum effort.
not sure what you mean there. would you have rather he'd thrown his toys out the pram like Ireland? Bottom line is he played pretty well and never complained about being dropped or played out of position. After the amount of whiners last season that should be a positive i reckon.
He's never seemed too bothered about not playing.
Could just be a good professional who was biding his time to be selected again, not the upset the applecart type. Apparently there are some still out there.
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He played well against Wolves away, we won, he got dropped. If Collins and Dunne were fit he didnt play despite the fact that thier form was patchy and that is being kind. I liked Cuellar, when played at CB, he did a decent job there. There is a thin line between acting like a twat and demanding to play.
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Far from being content to pick up his wages I was told some time ago that he was dead set on leaving after last season.
That's probably one of the reasons we have accepted such a derisory offer and will be further underlined when he happily signs for Rangers on something like £15-20K a week.
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Ridiculed and criticised when forced to play at RB; lacking confidence and trying too hard to impress when he did get the chance to play at CB. He was immense in that Wolves games but never filled me with confidence when he was lunging in at players in and around our box in the few times he got an opportunity to play last season. May be Dunne/Collins felt similar when asked to partner him.
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Lerner better have five or six players lined up or he will face a bit of a fan's reaction I think.
I'd think he'd be pretty used to the fans (over)reactions by now.
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Ridiculed and criticised when forced to play at RB; lacking confidence and trying too hard to impress when he did get the chance to play at CB. He was immense in that Wolves games but never filled me with confidence when he was lunging in at players in and around our box in the few times he got an opportunity to play last season. May be Dunne/Collins felt similar when asked to partner him.
I think that people criticised the decision to play him at RB, not the player. Talk about lunging, Collins and Dunne did that all last season, how many times did they give stupid free kicks away around the penalty area? He was no worse than those 2 when he played. My worry is that it will be more of the same next season.
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If this is true it isn't a good idea.
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I would say he was criticised for his (lack of) ability at RB, but you're right that MON was to blame and rightly cristicised for playing him there in the first place. His passing ability at times was bordering on pathetic for a professional footballer, not to mention how many times he would put the ball out of play and put pressure back on the defence when playing a relatively simple ball down the line.
You're also right about the other 2 diving in, giving away needless freekicks/penalties, but on the other hand they also made countless goal saving blocks and clearances. How the same players went from being one of the most solid defensive units in the league to verging on being incompetent in less than 12 months is something that still puzzles me.
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I would say he was criticised for his (lack of) ability at RB, but you're right that MON was to blame and rightly cristicised for playing him there in the first place. His passing ability at times was bordering on pathetic for a professional footballer, not to mention how many times he would put the ball out of play and put pressure back on the defence when playing a relatively simple ball down the line.
You're also right about the other 2 diving in, giving away needless freekicks/penalties, but on the other hand they also made countless goal saving blocks and clearances. How the same players went from being one of the most solid defensive units in the league to verging on being incompetent in less than 12 months is something that still puzzles me.Yep agree. For me the last ditch tackle is something that a defender should have in the toolbox but not need to use it too often because of thier ability, balance and positioning. Collins and Dunne are well past thier peak and are too similar. The perfect CB combination is a Ball winner and a reader. Our defensive problems last year was a combination of a lack of discipline, structure, comitment, consitancy, positioning and tactics. Not just a back 5 problem but a structural problem.
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He was criticised, but still popular. So it didn't have a lasting impact regarding his appreciation from most fans.
I was one of many who were baffled my MON's continued reluctance to play a decent RB at RB (we went through a whole season with Mellberg out there too remember). But the trade off for their lack of composure in possession and ability to get forward was that we defended set pieces better with three big lumps at the back (+ Carew/Ivanhoe, Barry and whoever) and rarely had a left winger turn them inside out -or exploiting gaps from charges up field that rarely came.
A 6ft+ big bastard of a right back who had a degree of composure on the ball could have solved a lot of MON's ills in that regard. But unfortunately -in the narrow market he operated in- none were available. And he didn't have the inclination or awareness to import them from outside of England or Scotland.
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We played Cuellar ahead of Young, we played Sidwell ahead of NRC and you wonder why it unravelled.
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for a Spaniard-his passing was poor-it's why he never had a sniff of international football
Decent CB and apparantly a v good bloke-so good luck to him in the SPL
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Are we going to have an 11 to start at Fulham on 13th?
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Just read he's gonna snub rangers and join espanyol
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Hmm, Glasgow or Barcelona? I know where I'd rather live
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Glasgow. They don't do them battered mars bars in Barcelona.
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Just read he's gonna snub rangers and join espanyol
This would be a better move for him, would be a shame for a top rate defender to go back playing non legue. Can't believe he didn't get more games last season, must have made him sick watching some of our defensive implosions. Let's hope Dunne and Collins agree with McLeish's tactics and get back to where they were season before last.
All the best Carlos.
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Just read he's gonna snub rangers and join espanyol
I'd still keep him personally, but if he's off then Espanyol would be better for him and if the club could throw in a pre-season freindly as part of the deal over there next season, then even better.
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So Cuellar has 1 year left & he's never been a first team regular. £2m is probably about right, isnt it?
Ridiculously low fee in this crazy money age!
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Personally, whenever I saw him play I thought Carlos was on the verge of dropping a bollock - nothwithstanding his general bravely and commitment to the cause. I think we bought him for 8 million and, assuming a 4-year contract, we have sold him at his "book value" - i.e., his original value written down for the 75% of his contract that has elapsed. That sounds about right for a player of his age, so no arguments on that front.
That does not alleviate the concerns I have about the general direction the club is heading in. If Doug were still in charge, we would be more than disparaging.
I suppose the only thing to do is to cross our collective fingers and hope that we bring triumph out of adversity, as sometimes happens in football.
Because the alternatives don't bear thinking of.
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Its probably been mentioned already but somethings been running through my mind regarding Carlos, a large number of us seem to rate him as our best centre back, but why have 4 different managers not reguarly played him and why if he's available for just 2m are more clubs not snapping our hands off? Its a strange one.
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Need another 10 players dont we?
GK-replace Friedel
defender -replace cuellar
right back -replace walker
left back - need cover for Warnock
midfielder - replace Coker
left winger - replace Downing
right winger - replace Young
striker - replace Carew
+ 2 extra players we needed last season.
Or we sign a GK and a left winger and see how it goes with the squad we've got.
Have a first 11 and bring the youth in as and when?
This, more or less..........
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He made 85 appearances in his 2 seasons under O'Neill.
Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young
Just the 63 appearances for Luke Young during the same 2 seasons.
Or 18 league and cup appearances in MON's last season, i.e. the season of the fall out. It's worth mentioning that it was also the season his brother died so missed about 3 months. No selective use of stats here.
There was no selective use of stats in my posts. Your own post highlights that Luke Young missed only 10 or 11 PL games in total after he returned following the death of his brother. I think that further demonstrates that the claim that Cuellar was an almost ever present in the team "Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young" is wrong, which was the point I was making.
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You're obviously counting sub appearances, I take it? And the times when he only got a game out of position on the left owing either to injury (Warnock) or dodgy form (Shorey).
How many games did he start during that period - in his regular position?
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You're obviously counting sub appearances, I take it? And the times when he only got a game out of position on the left owing either to injury (Warnock) or dodgy form (Shorey).
How many games did he start during that period - in his regular position?
He made 18 starts and 2 sub appearances. If I remember correctly, the only time he played in his preferred position was when he was torn a new arsehole by Malouda in the game where we conceded 18% of our total goals conceded for the season.
Whichever way you look at it, it isn't correct to say that Cuellar played mainly because Luke had a falling out with O'Neill.
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If this is true, £2m for a player of his quality is ridiculous. McCleish's first mistake.
Well if it is his 1st its the 1st of many methinks
how in fooks name are we going to replace him for £2M?? - Don`t tell me - we play the kids FFS
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He's only got 12 months left on his contract, hasn't played a massive amount for us and is currently recovering from an operation. How much do people think he is worth?
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He's only got 12 months left on his contract, hasn't played a massive amount for us and is currently recovering from an operation. How much do people think he is worth?
Exactly, Karl. Somewhat mystifying that people think an injured, reserve centre half with a year left on his contract would be worth a great deal more than a couple of million quid.
I'm interested to know why 3 (if you count Kev Mac) successive managers didn't play him regularly at centre-half? 'O Neill liked him as a covering right back and Houllier used him as a stand in for a largely misfiring Collins and Dunne. I remember watching the oft cited Wolves game and I can't remember a Mcgrath/Laursen-like performance. Rather he was solid and reliable.
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Rather he was solid and reliable.
Which is exactly what you want from a back-up centre half. It makes financial sense to sell but in football terms it depends on who he is replaced by.
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Quite happy with solid and reliable. Good characteristics of a centre-half.
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Rather he was solid and reliable.
Which is exactly what you want from a back-up centre half. It makes financial sense to sell but in football terms it depends on who he is replaced by.
So long as the centre-half in question agrees sitting out 90% of games is cool of course. They must have a centre-half lined up. It's only a guess but I'd say Dann is on his way here.
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Quite happy with solid and reliable. Good characteristics of a centre-half.
Agree, so why has he never made the position his own?
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Rather he was solid and reliable.
Which is exactly what you want from a back-up centre half. It makes financial sense to sell but in football terms it depends on who he is replaced by.
Your right. With each player that goes the pressure will be greater to replace them with better. Given for Friedal will be a good start.
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Rather he was solid and reliable.
Which is exactly what you want from a back-up centre half. It makes financial sense to sell but in football terms it depends on who he is replaced by.
Your right. With each player that goes the pressure will be greater to replace them with better. Given for Friedal will be a good start.
And Dann for Cueller another move in the right direction.
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Rather he was solid and reliable.
Which is exactly what you want from a back-up centre half. It makes financial sense to sell but in football terms it depends on who he is replaced by.
Your right. With each player that goes the pressure will be greater to replace them with better. Given for Friedal will be a good start.
And Dann for Cueller another move in the right direction.
Would be a great addition but will we pay £10m ?
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He made 85 appearances in his 2 seasons under O'Neill.
Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young
Just the 63 appearances for Luke Young during the same 2 seasons.
Or 18 league and cup appearances in MON's last season, i.e. the season of the fall out. It's worth mentioning that it was also the season his brother died so missed about 3 months. No selective use of stats here.
There was no selective use of stats in my posts. Your own post highlights that Luke Young missed only 10 or 11 PL games in total after he returned following the death of his brother. I think that further demonstrates that the claim that Cuellar was an almost ever present in the team "Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young" is wrong, which was the point I was making.
I'm just highlighting the details rather than play on the average stats which can be/are misleading. If I remember correctly, Luke fell out with MON before his brother died, probably insisting that he plays right back rather than left back. I don't think we'll find many on here who think he's better on the right than the left.
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May not be going to Espanyol anymore..........
"Rangers end their interest in the Espanyol defender Raul Rodriguez after the Spanish club increased their original valuation of the player." from BBC Sportsday
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Rather he was solid and reliable.
Which is exactly what you want from a back-up centre half. It makes financial sense to sell but in football terms it depends on who he is replaced by.
Your right. With each player that goes the pressure will be greater to replace them with better. Given for Friedal will be a good start.
And Dann for Cueller another move in the right direction.
Would be a great addition but will we pay £10m ?
We'll see I guess. It's natural for people to panic when they see players leaving but I reckon we'll see an influx of new players this week. What has changed from about a week ago when Culler was saying he'd probably be seeing out his contract? It would seem to me that a player has suddenly become available and so Mr Cueller has now become cash-in-able to make a word up.
I've always liked Cueller, but wen you here some talk about him being the best defender at the club etc, subjective as opinion is on these things, I wonder if I've been watching the same player so in terms of fan appreciation, I wonder if he's almost benefited from not playing so much.
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Cuellar - a player I don't have any particularly strong opinions about other than his rubbishness going forward from RB - seemingly can't win.
For ages lots of us were saying "MON plays him at RB because he's very good defensively, and that's the priority"
Now, we're hearing "he's being sold because he's not very good defensively".
Assuming we don't expect our centre backs to ghost forward with the ball like Franz Beckenbauer (and given that the first choices last season were the ginger leg swinger and a bloke with the passing technique and physique of a pub player, I think it's safe to say we don't), I'd have thought that "being able to defend" was quite a key demand of a centre half.
Ah well. Best of luck to the chap, I reckon he'll do well wherever he goes. Especially if it is Scotland, where I reckon your average pub player would do OK.
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I'd imagine we intend to do some decent buiness in the centre back position,if we're letting Carlos leave.
Especially as I hear,we intend for Ciaran Clark to have a loan spell.
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Especially as I hear,we intend for Ciaran Clark to have a loan spell.
Source?
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Tomato.
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Especially as I hear,we intend for Ciaran Clark to have a loan spell.
Very unlikely. I cant see that happening at all.
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He made 85 appearances in his 2 seasons under O'Neill.
Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young
Just the 63 appearances for Luke Young during the same 2 seasons.
Or 18 league and cup appearances in MON's last season, i.e. the season of the fall out. It's worth mentioning that it was also the season his brother died so missed about 3 months. No selective use of stats here.
There was no selective use of stats in my posts. Your own post highlights that Luke Young missed only 10 or 11 PL games in total after he returned following the death of his brother. I think that further demonstrates that the claim that Cuellar was an almost ever present in the team "Mainly because MON fell out with Luke young" is wrong, which was the point I was making.
I'm just highlighting the details rather than play on the average stats which can be/are misleading. If I remember correctly, Luke fell out with MON before his brother died, probably insisting that he plays right back rather than left back. I don't think we'll find many on here who think he's better on the right than the left.
Do you mean the other way round, MK?
Young is far better on the right, and he doesn't have to cut in to make the simple pass all the time. But he is capable of playing on the left and doing a solid job.
As to the fallout, Luke Young's comments pre Moscow and him making clear in the press that he preferred to play on the right might have something to do with it. Both of these occurred before the death of his brother.
It was a curiously MON esque decision to spend money and big wages on Shorey and then have Luke Young play in his place. Whilst NRC operated at RB. Two players played out of position to make up for the indifferent form of one. And of course, another player played out of position at RB the following season (Cuellar) despite adequate time to source a good RB if he so desired. Or re-instate a very capable one (Young).
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Clark would not benefit from a loan spell
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I'd imagine we intend to do some decent buiness in the centre back position,if we're letting Carlos leave.
Especially as I hear,we intend for Ciaran Clark to have a loan spell.
I'd be baffled if we did that.
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I'd imagine we intend to do some decent buiness in the centre back position,if we're letting Carlos leave.
Especially as I hear,we intend for Ciaran Clark to have a loan spell.
I'd be baffled if we did that.
Unless he's going to Birmingham so we can get Dann to Villa. Nice and local so we can keep an eye on him?
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I'd imagine we intend to do some decent buiness in the centre back position,if we're letting Carlos leave.
Especially as I hear,we intend for Ciaran Clark to have a loan spell.
I'd be baffled if we did that.
Unless he's going to Birmingham so we can get Dann to Villa. Nice and local so we can keep an eye on him?
God no. He'll come back a shadow of his former self. Is he going to learn from Curtis ?
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I'd imagine we intend to do some decent buiness in the centre back position,if we're letting Carlos leave.
Especially as I hear,we intend for Ciaran Clark to have a loan spell.
I'd be baffled if we did that.
Unless he's going to Birmingham so we can get Dann to Villa. Nice and local so we can keep an eye on him?
God no. He'll come back a shadow of his former self. Is he going to learn from Curtis ?
Don't be daft Ger, he'll teach Curtis how to defend!!
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I'd use Clark as back up to Warnock as well as centre half for the season, let him start in the League Cup games, too.
Consider giving him a loan spell in the second half of the season dependant on circumstance.
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Urgh, guttes he's going... doesn't make any sense, BUT, if we can get a like-for-like quality replacement it'll be OK I imagine.
Scott Dann? Yes please.
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It goes without saying that we won't be getting a replacement in,
Fiver says we do in this transfer window.
I'll take that bet.
I'll collect it in The Bartons!
Are you sure Dave?
Fucking Eck's latest comments are interesting.
No pound coins ta.
A crisp deep sea diver will do.
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I thought the lastest was that he was turning Rangers down. He will get more money staying here & becoming a Bosman at the end of the season. Why would he cut his wages in half for probably 3 years when he could make a real wedge by doing the above.
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I'm still confident Fletch, it's all an elaborate bluff.
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I'm still confident Fletch, it's all an elaborate bluff.
I hope you win it off me, I really do.
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Further to last nights comments, letting CC go for just £2m makes even less sense than it did a few days ago.
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Got to keep him if no more signings are coming this summer. If Dunne,Collins and Young get injured we've only got Clark as cover.
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I'd keep him, where are you going to get a replacement of his quality for the £2m we receive?
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If we sell Cuellar and don't replace him it's suicide.
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If we sell Cuellar and don't replace him it's suicide.
Literally?
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Hopefully not.
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He is on a supposed £50k at Villa, Rangers would pay about half that and offer him a deal for 2-3 years on £25k-ish. He could stay at Villa, hope to get into the side and then get a bumper final contract of his career as a Bosman to go towards his retirement fund. If he has a half decent agent he won't be going to Rangers.