Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: TimTheVillain on July 06, 2011, 02:02:02 PM
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Wages & Salaries - Reform Acquisitions Ltd
2009/10 -£79,974,000
2008/9 - £70,577,000
2007/8 - £50,447,000
2006/7 - £22,450,000
Football has gone from mad to insane.
Then Man Citeh came on the scene .....
Jeez knows where this will all end, but it's not good for the game to lose over £37m a year ( like we did 2009/10) and we are one of the most solid clubs around !
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Ahhhhh, the good old days of MON
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I'm absolutely outraged. How much of that 22.4 million was paid to Didier Aghate?
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It's be interesting to see where the 06/07 figure featured in comparison to other PL clubs at the time. I'd guess we were paying a lot less than most as evidenced by the almost doubling of it once we started some spending under Randy.
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And we get told what a great businessman RL is.
I like RL but fuck me:
Curtis davies - 5 million loss
Habib Beye - 8 Million
NRC - signed for 8 million leaves on a free
Steve Sidwell - 3 million loss
Salifou - Cost us a couple of million
Salaries at 88% of turnover
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I don't think he was entirely to blame for that.
Remember as soon as he tried to exert more control over wages and signings the manager in question fucked off.
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I don't think he was entirely to blame for that.
Remember as soon as he tried to exert more control over wages and signings the manager in question fucked off.
Huge clappy thingy
If i have any critisism of Randy during his time was that he was almsot in awe of MON and gave him everything he wanted, players, control over wages and contracts et al
And the spoilt little fucker fucked off the first time he was asked about wages
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I agree with an extent with that but to give a manager free reign over signings and wages is bound to end in tears - which it is doing.
Up until MON walked I couldn't fault RL in the slightest, but as soon as MON buggered off it's a comedy of errors. Signing GH and then having to pay him off was totally avoidable and then when we have all of Europe to search for a manager we come up with AM and yet more compensation.
If he wants to chuck any more money down the bog then I'll have some
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Oh god more pro anti MON nonsense. 30 pages.
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*all together now*
Sunday, Monday, Habib Beye...
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Oh god more pro anti MON nonsense. 30 pages.
It's not down to MON, it's a sign of how football has gone.
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I don't think he was entirely to blame for that.
Remember as soon as he tried to exert more control over wages and signings the manager in question fucked off.
Huge clappy thingy
If i have any critisism of Randy during his time was that he was almsot in awe of MON and gave him everything he wanted, players, control over wages and contracts et al
And the spoilt little fucker fucked off the first time he was asked about wages
O'Neill may have went potty with the wage bill, but it was Mr Lerner Sir who allowed him to do so.
Over the period of 4 years to boot.
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THE WAGE BILL WASN'T £22m in 2006/7.
Sorry for shouting but a pretty important point would be ignored otherwise.
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THE WAGE BILL WASN'T £22m in 2006/7.
Sorry for shouting but a pretty important point would be ignored otherwise.
What was it then ?
Was it split between Reform and the previous AVFC ??
I see it was £38 mill in 2005/6, so maybe c.£40 mill in 2006/7 when consolidated ?
The point is, we're spending on wages, and it's going up year on year on year .... can't stay like this, not just for us either.
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The wage bill was 38.25 in 05/06 and 33.13 in 04/05, so i imagine those figures for 06/07 reflect the portion of the year for which RAL was in control of the club.
So:
2009/10 -£79,974,000
2008/9 - £70,577,000
2007/8 - £50,447,000
2006/7 - whatever it was
2005/6 - £38,255,000
2004/5 - £33,134,000
Still gives a good idea of the progression of the wage bill
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And we get told what a great businessman RL is.
I like RL but fuck me:
Curtis davies - 5 million loss
Habib Beye - 8 Million
NRC - signed for 8 million leaves on a free
Steve Sidwell - 3 million loss
Salifou - Cost us a couple of million
Salaries at 88% of turnover
Randy's running of Aston Villa as a viable business has been awful. The wages to turnover ratio is unsustainable.
On the other hand, it shows just how much money he has put into the club while we made a push for Champions League football. When he goes, we wont be signing any £12 million let alone be selling them.
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You can't fault lerner for the money he has put in but I thinks his total hands off approach has come back to haunt him.
RL is a billionaire - just, so for him to have spent some £200 million of his own money with no hope of getting any sort of return is madness. He wanted CL and we tried but that is just a distant dream now so I think he is cutting his cloth accordingly
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How many other managers would have gave Habib Beye £40k a week? Sidwell £50k a week? Heskey £50k a week? on deals that were obviously too long.
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You can't fault lerner for the money he has put in but I thinks his total hands off approach has come back to haunt him.
RL is a billionaire - just, so for him to have spent some £200 million of his own money with no hope of getting any sort of return is madness. He wanted CL and we tried but that is just a distant dream now so I think he is cutting his cloth accordingly
I would hope he gets his money back if/when he sells the club. Surely the club must be worth the best part of two hundred million?
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You can't fault lerner for the money he has put in but I thinks his total hands off approach has come back to haunt him.
RL is a billionaire - just, so for him to have spent some £200 million of his own money with no hope of getting any sort of return is madness. He wanted CL and we tried but that is just a distant dream now so I think he is cutting his cloth accordingly
I would hope he gets his money back if/when he sells the club. Surely the club must be worth the best part of two hundred million?
That's the only scenario I can think of.
The Gen repeatedly says he's a businessman, and businessmen don't piss as much money up the wall as Randy without seeing a return down the line - Villa tattoo or not !
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What it will be like if Steve Stride actually stay on and we appoint someone else instead of MON. I bet we will be in Champions League without wage bill headache.
Did Steve Stride quit, retired or let go. I can't understand why Stride is not at Villa Park.
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thats why o'neil is no longer manager, it was he who gave out record contracts to a lot of average players. and why chief executives left and couldnt work with him.
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Do we know how many staff members that paid?
This would give us an avergae salary (which I bet per week, is more than most earn in a year or even two).
Football is insane. A huge bubble actually needs to burst for the good of the game. Somebody big needs to go bust. Just hope it's not us.
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I think we should rename the thread now - VillaDawg v Risso Part 259
Get ahead of the game!
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I think we should rename the thread now - VillaDawg v Risso Part 259
Get ahead of the game!
(with added Spurs Comparisons from page 47)
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This is football for you. Full of greedy bastards demanding more and more money
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I think we should rename the thread now - VillaDawg v Risso Part 259
Get ahead of the game!
Haven't you heard? I'm considered a lilly-livered moderate these days. Paulie even agrees with me every now and then.
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£80m a year for that shower? Christ on a bike.
MON played his part but there's only one man who signs the cheques, I'm afraid we can't hide behind the evil O'Neill notion forever.
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£80m a year for that shower? Christ on a bike.
MON played his part but there's only one man who signs the cheques, I'm afraid we can't hide behind the evil O'Neill notion forever.
If Lerner is guilty of anything, it is naively backing O'Neill unquestioningly for far too long.
He's not free from blame, but to suggest that he's mostly to blame for O'Neill signing a succession of underused, overpaid duffers we now can not give away is in the realm of fantasy, unfortunately.
I suspect that the very same people who would now have it be known that they blame Lerner for that are the same ones who were muttering "well, he forced MON out, because he wouldn't sanction deals for player x, y or z" (where x, y AND z are all overpriced, mediocre UK based players).
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Quite.
Or if he hadn't coughed up the dough on the back of a decent 07/08 and 08/09, he'd have been accused of not being bold enough to seize the initiative and all manner of comparisons with Ellis would have ensued. Oh wait...
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£80m a year for that shower? Christ on a bike.
MON played his part but there's only one man who signs the cheques, I'm afraid we can't hide behind the evil O'Neill notion forever.
If Lerner is guilty of anything, it is naively backing O'Neill unquestioningly for far too long.
He's not free from blame, but to suggest that he's mostly to blame for O'Neill signing a succession of underused, overpaid duffers we now can not give away is in the realm of fantasy, unfortunately.
I suspect that the very same people who would now have it be known that they blame Lerner for that are the same ones who were muttering "well, he forced MON out, because he wouldn't sanction deals for player x, y or z" (where x, y AND z are all overpriced, mediocre UK based players).
We didn't underuse our squad any more than other teams utilise their squad, we didn't overpay our players any more than other clubs overpay their players and we don't lose more on our squad investments than other clubs do.
Sorry Paulie, you have been blinded by the amounts of money involved in football today and have no perspective on what is happening in relation to our competitors.
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Never said it was 'all Lerner's fault' nor did I say O'Neill was blameless - far from it. However, I don't accept the notion its somehow all O'Neill's fault - it isn't. Naivety sums it up because i dont doubt for a minute the owner had the best intentions. Sadly he backed the wrong horse.
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We didn't underuse our squad any more than other teams utilise their squad, we didn't overpay our players any more than other clubs overpay their players and we don't lose more on our squad investments than other clubs do.
Yes we did. I remember doing the stats for that, what seems like a thousand years ago.
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£80m a year for that shower? Christ on a bike.
MON played his part but there's only one man who signs the cheques, I'm afraid we can't hide behind the evil O'Neill notion forever.
If Lerner is guilty of anything, it is naively backing O'Neill unquestioningly for far too long.
He's not free from blame, but to suggest that he's mostly to blame for O'Neill signing a succession of underused, overpaid duffers we now can not give away is in the realm of fantasy, unfortunately.
I suspect that the very same people who would now have it be known that they blame Lerner for that are the same ones who were muttering "well, he forced MON out, because he wouldn't sanction deals for player x, y or z" (where x, y AND z are all overpriced, mediocre UK based players).
We didn't underuse our squad any more than other teams utilise their squad, we didn't overpay our players any more than other clubs overpay their players and we don't lose more on our squad investments than other clubs do.
Sorry Paulie, you have been blinded by the amounts of money involved in football today and have no perspective on what is happening in relation to our competitors.
I'd suggest that spending the enormous sums we've spent on the likes of Heskey and Beye for no apparent return is pretty daft all round. What's more, there's then the sums spent and wasted on the likes of Curtis Davies, Steve Sidwell, Nicky Shorey, plus the purchase of an entire new defence in two consecutive seasons.
O'Neill had the chance to spend some money wisely and move us on, but he blew it on overpriced, underperforming home market dross because he couldn't be arsed to scout players anywhere other than his own front yard.
Unless, of course, you're preparaed to look at the fact that with the exception of two players, every single player MON signed was UK based, and that that just reflected that those were the best players available, rather than just "hey, they cost a load more because they're already playing in the UK, but fuck it, they're easier to spot".
You can moan all you like about there now being no money, and I'll join you in that, but if you're going to start to suggest that it wasn't anything to do with O'Neill and his lazy profligacy with cash, we're going to have to disagree.
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We didn't underuse our squad any more than other teams utilise their squad, we didn't overpay our players any more than other clubs overpay their players and we don't lose more on our squad investments than other clubs do.
Yes we did. I remember doing the stats for that, what seems like a thousand years ago.
I suppose I could accept what you say about "utilisation" as proof but I'd appreciate something more informative than "I remember doing the stats".
Other people have done the stats and their conclusion is "Their [Aston Villa] squad and starting XI expenditures were in line with 9th to 11th place finishes, and O’Neill’s utilization rate was right at the average for the seasons in which he managed.
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Oh, is that a fact fact, or a suspected fact, or a partial fact, or what?
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I suppose I could accept what you say about "utilisation" as proof but I'd appreciate something more informative than "I remember doing the stats".
Well search for them then; they're there somewhere.
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£80m a year for that shower? Christ on a bike.
MON played his part but there's only one man who signs the cheques, I'm afraid we can't hide behind the evil O'Neill notion forever.
If Lerner is guilty of anything, it is naively backing O'Neill unquestioningly for far too long.
He's not free from blame, but to suggest that he's mostly to blame for O'Neill signing a succession of underused, overpaid duffers we now can not give away is in the realm of fantasy, unfortunately.
I suspect that the very same people who would now have it be known that they blame Lerner for that are the same ones who were muttering "well, he forced MON out, because he wouldn't sanction deals for player x, y or z" (where x, y AND z are all overpriced, mediocre UK based players).
We didn't underuse our squad any more than other teams utilise their squad, we didn't overpay our players any more than other clubs overpay their players and we don't lose more on our squad investments than other clubs do.
Sorry Paulie, you have been blinded by the amounts of money involved in football today and have no perspective on what is happening in relation to our competitors.
I'd suggest that spending the enormous sums we've spent on the likes of Heskey and Beye for no apparent return is pretty daft all round. What's more, there's then the sums spent and wasted on the likes of Curtis Davies, Steve Sidwell, Nicky Shorey, plus the purchase of an entire new defence in two consecutive seasons.
O'Neill had the chance to spend some money wisely and move us on, but he blew it on overpriced, underperforming home market dross because he couldn't be arsed to scout players anywhere other than his own front yard.
Unless, of course, you're preparaed to look at the fact that with the exception of two players, every single player MON signed was UK based, and that that just reflected that those were the best players available, rather than just "hey, they cost a load more because they're already playing in the UK, but fuck it, they're easier to spot".
You can moan all you like about there now being no money, and I'll join you in that, but if you're going to start to suggest that it wasn't anything to do with O'Neill and his lazy profligacy with cash, we're going to have to disagree.
Spurs and Man City have had similar issues with building top-six squads except on a grander scale haven't they? There is nothing special about the fact that some players haven't worked out for the Villa. The players that turn out to be write-offs are a normal part of football.
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I suppose I could accept what you say about "utilisation" as proof but I'd appreciate something more informative than "I remember doing the stats".
Well search for them then; they're there somewhere.
I don't need to search for them, I'm not relying on them to make my point, you are.
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I don't need to search for them, I'm not relying on them to make my point, you are.
You're not interested in what they show?
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I don't need to search for them, I'm not relying on them to make my point, you are.
You're not interested in what they show?
I'm not interesting in going and searching through your old posts. I think you need to find them and use them to illustrate your point.
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I'm not interesting in going and searching through your old posts. I think you need to find them and use them to illustrate your point.
I'm not sure that I do actually; I did all that at the time. If you want to see the point illustrated, look it up; it's all there somewhere.
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MON's reign was a complete fiasco. At least half his signings we could have done without because they were either complete bobbins or he refused to play them. I don't need to tell anyone how useful 40m in transfer fees and and probably the same in wages could have been now. Lerner should have kept an eye on MON more, but knowing how much of a control freak the manager was i'm guessing he was wary of doing anything to upset him especially while results were improving. By the time he realised MON had hit a glass ceiling with his style of play the money had gone.
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I remember SSN showing player utilisation stats from O'Neill's last season. It was something like: we used substitutes the least of all PL clubs and were something like 2nd or 3rd in the fewest squad players used.
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The telling thing to me is less than a year after he left there's nothing left really of his signings. He didn't leave a basis of a good team for the future and by next summer all of them could be gone. All thats left are old men, deadwood and failures. Delph is the only one you can still see playing a part in 2 or 3 years time
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Isn't it sad that we look at the wage bill and ignore the fact that there's a whole team of people at VP who are also paid on the football and Admin side - got to be more than 100.
It's just that they're paid (in total) about £2 million of that sum ( total guess) between a vast number of employees.
The rest goes to the players.......
Mad world.
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How many other managers would have gave Habib Beye £40k a week? Sidwell £50k a week? Heskey £50k a week? on deals that were obviously too long.
Probably quite a few at the time.
And a number of people on here complain that we don't put our players on long enough contracts: 4 years for Downing / AY etc when it should have been five.
I think MON was pretty cavalier with RAL's money - but so too were other managers with their Chairman's dosh. If we're looking to attribute blame, it's down to RAL not being better-informed about football finances; but - as I say - other managers will have been paying journeymen top dollar.
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Has anybody pointed out that our wage bill wasn't £22.5m 4 years ago?
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The telling thing to me is less than a year after he left there's nothing left really of his signings. He didn't leave a basis of a good team for the future and by next summer all of them could be gone. All thats left are old men, deadwood and failures. Delph is the only one you can still see playing a part in 2 or 3 years time
You have an "interesting" way of looking at things. We spent approx £80m net during O'Neill's tenure. We've raised £43m by selling Milner and Young and can push that figure through £60m if we sell Downing.
I hope you're wrong about the assessment of the rest of the squad because it looks as though we are going to be relying on the crop of youngsters he brought through.
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The telling thing to me is less than a year after he left there's nothing left really of his signings. He didn't leave a basis of a good team for the future and by next summer all of them could be gone. All thats left are old men, deadwood and failures. Delph is the only one you can still see playing a part in 2 or 3 years time
You have an "interesting" way of looking at things. We spent approx £80m net during O'Neill's tenure. We've raised £43m by selling Milner and Young and can push that figure through £60m if we sell Downing.
I hope you're wrong about the assessment of the rest of the squad because it looks as though we are going to be relying on the crop of youngsters he brought through.
Milner was sold before MON left and replaced by Ireland so that leaves only young who was a 1st team player under MON and sold since. So as of today'MON's total legacy is:
Downing
Heskey
Young
Beye
Petrov
Dunne
Collins
Ireland
Guzan
Delpth
So basically a nuttter, 2 accident prone/trouble making defenders and a few veterans approaching retirement. Again only Delpth is one you could see being part of our medium term future. Not much to show for 80m in fee's and probably not far off the same in wages is it? Basically take young and Downing out and its not any sort of asset or basis for the future at all
And the youth was already there. MON spent half his time flogging them off to bring some money in to finance his tat. Mcdonald and GH blooded more of the youngters than MON managed in his 4 years at the club. If he'd had his way we'd probably have mcgeady in with allbrighton flogged off to bolton or similar
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Has anybody pointed out that our wage bill wasn't £22.5m 4 years ago?
Yes
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The telling thing to me is less than a year after he left there's nothing left really of his signings. He didn't leave a basis of a good team for the future and by next summer all of them could be gone. All thats left are old men, deadwood and failures. Delph is the only one you can still see playing a part in 2 or 3 years time
Sorry, just can't agree with that!
The side he left included Ash, Milner, Downing and one of the tightest defences in the league. Yes, there were holes in the squad that needed filling, but what happened to those players post MON - as in being sold and loss of form under a poor managerial appointment - he shouldn't be blamed for.
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we lost one player since MON left in Young. Milner was sold and replaced by MON. You can't convince me that the list of his signings still here is much of a team or would even stay up. The fact is we've made a profit on 2 of his signings, maybe 3 if you include Knight. Downing is the last one we're ever likely to make any money on or who will be an asset. The rest are either nearing the end of their careers, useless or in delpth's case potential. Dreadful, dreadful use of the money provided, and probably why MON realised the writing was on the wall. If i was told to cut back by lerner and had that pool of players i'd probably bail out as well.
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No, Milner was sold and replaced after MON left. He may have wanted Ireland as part of the deal, but it happened two weeks or so after he left.
And you can't expect to continually sell players on for more than you paid for them. What you do is buy them and get their best years, so that when they go they go for less. Yorke at Man Utd is a prime example. Some players were brought in with the full knowledge of a minimal resale value (Dunne and Freidle) as we needed them as players and were willing to spend the money for them.
The judgement of a transfer outlay is the results that money brings you and not just the resale value.
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...
Milner was sold before MON left and replaced by Ireland so that leaves only young who was a 1st team player under MON and sold since. So as of today'MON's total legacy is:
Downing
Heskey
Young
Beye
Petrov
Dunne
Collins
Ireland
Guzan
Delpth
So basically a nuttter, 2 accident prone/trouble making defenders and a few veterans approaching retirement. Again only Delpth is one you could see being part of our medium term future. Not much to show for 80m in fee's and probably not far off the same in wages is it? Basically take young and Downing out and its not any sort of asset or basis for the future at all
And the youth was already there. MON spent half his time flogging them off to bring some money in to finance his tat. Mcdonald and GH blooded more of the youngters than MON managed in his 4 years at the club. If he'd had his way we'd probably have mcgeady in with allbrighton flogged off to bolton or similar
I know it is hard for you to put things into perspective Greg, that’s why facts are so useful in these situations.
Milner played for Villa against West Ham after O’Neill left and MacDonald said after the game that a deal had yet to be done. Of course, if you must insist on the “Gregworld” version of events, you’ll have to reduce the £80m accordingly.
The crop of youngsters we’re talking about all came through the ranks whilst O’Neill was in charge of the football side of things. Indeed, he gave professional debuts to the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Bannan, Lowry and Delfouneso, as well as awarding professional contracts to several others.
I’m interested to see how you reconcile your opinion that O’Neill was a control freak with the counterintuitive opinion that he had nothing to do with the emergence of these young players.
Just out of interest, how much do you think the owners should have invested in the squad over the course of O’Neill’s tenure and what do you think could have been achieved on your budget?
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*Sigh* are you really saying MON hadn't agreed to Milner leaving or Ireland wasn't bought by him? More conspicacy theories no doubt..........
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Indeed, he gave professional debuts to the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Bannan, Lowry and Delfouneso, as well as awarding professional contracts to several others.
I wonder how many games they racked up between them under MON.
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Any idea what the wage bill is now given we have taken Sidwell, Carew, NRC, Young, Davies and Friedal off it since last year amongst others?
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I'd imagine it would be well down.
Unfortunately, some of those players might need to be replaced.
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*Sigh* are you really saying MON hadn't agreed to Milner leaving or Ireland wasn't bought by him? More conspicacy theories no doubt..........
This is probably the most futile argument ever. He was sold after O'Neill left. It isn't a conspiracy to say so, that's what happened.
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Indeed, he gave professional debuts to the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Bannan, Lowry and Delfouneso, as well as awarding professional contracts to several others.
I wonder how many games they racked up between them under MON.
I've no idea but I'd imagine it was about the same amount as similar young players at other top six teams.
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Any idea what the wage bill is now given we have taken Sidwell, Carew, NRC, Young, Davies and Friedal off it since last year amongst others?
Wasn't £60m the figure the club want wages to be at?
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*Sigh* are you really saying MON hadn't agreed to Milner leaving or Ireland wasn't bought by him? More conspicacy theories no doubt..........
This is probably the most futile argument ever. He was sold after O'Neill left. It isn't a conspiracy to say so, that's what happened.
I was talking about MON legacy in players left. You seem to be making out that we decided to flog Milner after he left when the reality is it was already rubbed stamped. In fact MON was telling everyone he was going to leave a month earlier even without asking Milner first. so whether MON had stayed or left milner would still have gone. Likewise Ireland would still have arrived. So claiming MON left us with a team containing Milner is while technically correct in time-line, in any real sense its bobbins.
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*Sigh* are you really saying MON hadn't agreed to Milner leaving or Ireland wasn't bought by him? More conspicacy theories no doubt..........
This is probably the most futile argument ever. He was sold after O'Neill left. It isn't a conspiracy to say so, that's what happened.
I was talking about MON legacy in players left. You seem to be making out that we decided to flog Milner after he left when the reality is it was already rubbed stamped. In fact MON was telling everyone he was going to leave a month earlier even without asking Milner first. so whether MON had stayed or left milner would still have gone. Likewise Ireland would still have arrived. So claiming MON left us with a team containing Milner is while technically correct in time-line, in any real sense its bobbins.
Of course I wasn't making out anything of the sort.
I had made the point "We spent approx £80m net during O'Neill's tenure. We've raised £43m by selling Milner and Young and can push that figure through £60m if we sell Downing." and you decided to respond to it directly with some inaccurate and misleading gubbins, that needed correcting.
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*Sigh* are you really saying MON hadn't agreed to Milner leaving or Ireland wasn't bought by him? More conspicacy theories no doubt..........
This is probably the most futile argument ever. He was sold after O'Neill left. It isn't a conspiracy to say so, that's what happened.
I was talking about MON legacy in players left. You seem to be making out that we decided to flog Milner after he left when the reality is it was already rubbed stamped. In fact MON was telling everyone he was going to leave a month earlier even without asking Milner first. so whether MON had stayed or left milner would still have gone. Likewise Ireland would still have arrived. So claiming MON left us with a team containing Milner is while technically correct in time-line, in any real sense its bobbins.
Of course I wasn't making out anything of the sort.
I had made the point "We spent approx £80m net during O'Neill's tenure. We've raised £43m by selling Milner and Young and can push that figure through £60m if we sell Downing." and you decided to respond to it directly with some inaccurate and misleading gubbins, that needed correcting.
erm...... actually that was your response to me saying there was hardly anything left in MON's squad of any quality and that would be useful in the coming years.. What your point has to do with anything i was saying is beyond me. If you believe selling 2 players in young and milner makes up for the small hodge pot of old men, deadwood, nutters and trouble makers that is the remnants of MON's 30 odd purchases a mere 11 months after he left then thats your delusion. I think it showed at best he expected 80m for new players every 4 years and at worse he had no idea about building a team to last beyound a couple of seasons. Maybe he was hoping if he got into the CL a big GAME OVER sign would appear in front of his eyes and he could retire.
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Bobbins and gubbins... Great words...
Sorry, carry on.
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The crop of youngsters we’re talking about all came through the ranks whilst O’Neill was in charge of the football side of things. Indeed, he gave professional debuts to the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Bannan, Lowry and Delfouneso, as well as awarding professional contracts to several others.
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I think the word is debut namely one game.
All of those youngsters put together didnt start 10 games under MON.
MOn would have started with petrov in traction rather than giving those kids a chance
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I think we should rename the thread now - VillaDawg v Risso Part 259
Get ahead of the game!
Haven't you heard? I'm considered a lilly-livered moderate these days. Paulie even agrees with me every now and then.
OK, Villadawg V Gregnash then!
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The crop of youngsters we’re talking about all came through the ranks whilst O’Neill was in charge of the football side of things. Indeed, he gave professional debuts to the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Bannan, Lowry and Delfouneso, as well as awarding professional contracts to several others.
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I think the word is debut namely one game.
All of those youngsters put together didnt start 10 games under MON.
MOn would have started with petrov in traction rather than giving those kids a chance
He gave Gabby a few games.
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*Sigh* are you really saying MON hadn't agreed to Milner leaving or Ireland wasn't bought by him? More conspicacy theories no doubt..........
This is probably the most futile argument ever. He was sold after O'Neill left. It isn't a conspiracy to say so, that's what happened.
I was talking about MON legacy in players left. You seem to be making out that we decided to flog Milner after he left when the reality is it was already rubbed stamped. In fact MON was telling everyone he was going to leave a month earlier even without asking Milner first. so whether MON had stayed or left milner would still have gone. Likewise Ireland would still have arrived. So claiming MON left us with a team containing Milner is while technically correct in time-line, in any real sense its bobbins.
Of course I wasn't making out anything of the sort.
I had made the point "We spent approx £80m net during O'Neill's tenure. We've raised £43m by selling Milner and Young and can push that figure through £60m if we sell Downing." and you decided to respond to it directly with some inaccurate and misleading gubbins, that needed correcting.
erm...... actually that was your response to me saying there was hardly anything left in MON's squad of any quality and that would be useful in the coming years.. What your point has to do with anything i was saying is beyond me. If you believe selling 2 players in young and milner makes up for the small hodge pot of old men, deadwood, nutters and trouble makers that is the remnants of MON's 30 odd purchases a mere 11 months after he left then thats your delusion. I think it showed at best he expected 80m for new players every 4 years and at worse he had no idea about building a team to last beyound a couple of seasons. Maybe he was hoping if he got into the CL a big GAME OVER sign would appear in front of his eyes and he could retire.
Either he sold Milner and his net spend was £54m, or he didn't, and his net spend was £80m. You can't have it both ways.
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The crop of youngsters we’re talking about all came through the ranks whilst O’Neill was in charge of the football side of things. Indeed, he gave professional debuts to the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Bannan, Lowry and Delfouneso, as well as awarding professional contracts to several others.
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I think the word is debut namely one game.
All of those youngsters put together didnt start 10 games under MON.
MOn would have started with petrov in traction rather than giving those kids a chance
He gave Gabby a few games.
Although Gabby he inherited when he had fewer decent options up front.
Thinking about that, I really liked that front line of Gabby out wide on one side, Moore on the other and Angel in the middle. It was all a bit makeshift and was never going to propel us to greatness, but it was pretty good to watch at times.
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*Sigh* are you really saying MON hadn't agreed to Milner leaving or Ireland wasn't bought by him? More conspicacy theories no doubt..........
This is probably the most futile argument ever. He was sold after O'Neill left. It isn't a conspiracy to say so, that's what happened.
I was talking about MON legacy in players left. You seem to be making out that we decided to flog Milner after he left when the reality is it was already rubbed stamped. In fact MON was telling everyone he was going to leave a month earlier even without asking Milner first. so whether MON had stayed or left milner would still have gone. Likewise Ireland would still have arrived. So claiming MON left us with a team containing Milner is while technically correct in time-line, in any real sense its bobbins.
Of course I wasn't making out anything of the sort.
I had made the point "We spent approx £80m net during O'Neill's tenure. We've raised £43m by selling Milner and Young and can push that figure through £60m if we sell Downing." and you decided to respond to it directly with some inaccurate and misleading gubbins, that needed correcting.
erm...... actually that was your response to me saying there was hardly anything left in MON's squad of any quality and that would be useful in the coming years.. What your point has to do with anything i was saying is beyond me. If you believe selling 2 players in young and milner makes up for the small hodge pot of old men, deadwood, nutters and trouble makers that is the remnants of MON's 30 odd purchases a mere 11 months after he left then thats your delusion. I think it showed at best he expected 80m for new players every 4 years and at worse he had no idea about building a team to last beyound a couple of seasons. Maybe he was hoping if he got into the CL a big GAME OVER sign would appear in front of his eyes and he could retire.
Either he sold Milner and his net spend was £54m, or he didn't, and his net spend was £80m. You can't have it both ways.
Trust me, he'll find a way!
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Give the quote button a break please lads.
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The crop of youngsters we’re talking about all came through the ranks whilst O’Neill was in charge of the football side of things. Indeed, he gave professional debuts to the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Bannan, Lowry and Delfouneso, as well as awarding professional contracts to several others.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the word is debut namely one game.
All of those youngsters put together didnt start 10 games under MON.
MOn would have started with petrov in traction rather than giving those kids a chance
He gave Gabby a few games.
Im sure gabby was in the first team under DOL
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Bobbins and gubbins... Great words...
Sorry, carry on.
I'd wager they are either hobbits or bit players from Harry Potter.
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The crop of youngsters we’re talking about all came through the ranks whilst O’Neill was in charge of the football side of things. Indeed, he gave professional debuts to the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Bannan, Lowry and Delfouneso, as well as awarding professional contracts to several others.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the word is debut namely one game.
All of those youngsters put together didnt start 10 games under MON.
MOn would have started with petrov in traction rather than giving those kids a chance
He gave Gabby a few games.
Im sure gabby was in the first team under DOL
I thought people were on about how many games youngsters got. It seems we've established he did quite well re: giving them their debuts. So what are we moaning about again?
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And we get told what a great businessman RL is.
I like RL but fuck me:
Curtis davies - 5 million loss
Habib Beye - 8 Million
NRC - signed for 8 million leaves on a free
Steve Sidwell - 3 million loss
Salifou - Cost us a couple of million
Salaries at 88% of turnover
We did waste some money, but we certainly didn't spend £10m on Beye and Salifou!! I think it was about £2.035m