Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: fitzy on July 01, 2011, 11:15:22 AM
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Just been watching the recent Interview with Saunders on AVTV. Memories !!!
However has got me thinking - was impressed with McLeish coming out so quickly and laying down the law as to who is the boss, seems to me we could have a new Saunders on our hands, instilling dicipline, focus on teamwork, and a very clear directive saying ' What he says goes'
Worked very well for Mr Saunders - I know it was a different era, but refreshing nonetheless not to hear the usual pandering to the players egos . May just work.
Would you bet against him !!!
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Behave yourself.
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Clutching at straws methinks, but let's hope so eh?
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Time will tell, hope so
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It's a thought and let's hope you're right.
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Would you bet against him !!!
I think that there's a fair few that would but thanks for the optimism.
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Just been watching the recent Interview with Saunders on AVTV. Memories !!!
However has got me thinking - was impressed with McLeish coming out so quickly and laying down the law as to who is the boss, seems to me we could have a new Saunders on our hands, instilling dicipline, focus on teamwork, and a very clear directive saying ' What he says goes'
Worked very well for Mr Saunders - I know it was a different era, but refreshing nonetheless not to hear the usual pandering to the players egos . May just work.
Would you bet against him !!!
I'm sorry, it's all nonsense.
I'm afraid he's not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Saunders.
The instilling discipline stuff is crowd pleasing guff, very few managers in the Premier League have the power to instill discipline. Upset a player and he'll cause problems in training, get left out and get a nice new club sorted by his agent.
I'm preying McLeish can do well, but hyperbole about him before a ball has been kicked in anger is laughable.
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Just been watching the recent Interview with Saunders on AVTV. Memories !!!
However has got me thinking - was impressed with McLeish coming out so quickly and laying down the law as to who is the boss, seems to me we could have a new Saunders on our hands, instilling dicipline, focus on teamwork, and a very clear directive saying ' What he says goes'
Worked very well for Mr Saunders - I know it was a different era, but refreshing nonetheless not to hear the usual pandering to the players egos . May just work.
Would you bet against him !!!
I'm sorry, it's all nonsense.
I'm afraid he's not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Saunders.
The instilling discipline stuff is crowd pleasing guff, very few managers in the Premier League have the power to instill discipline. Upset a player and he'll cause problems in training, get left out and get a nice new club sorted by his agent.
I'm preying McLeish can do well, but hyperbole about him before a ball has been kicked in anger is laughable.
Agree totally.
I think its a disservice to mention AM in the same breath as Saunders never mind comparing him.
All very well saying how good Small heaths team spirit was, but it didnt stop them from playing the worst football in the league and getting relegated did it.
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Much the same as writing him off before said ball is kicked as well, I suppose
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Did I write him off?
Must have written it in invisible ink
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Your comments were hardly that of someone with an open mind
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Much the same as writing him off before said ball is kicked as well, I suppose
Nobody's writing him off, just saying that any sort of comparison to Saunders doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
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I put your statement on par with someone who compared Baros to Brian Little.
So blues never played the worst football in the league, scored the fewest goals and got relegated then?
I dont like AM because he's from Small Heath i dislike him for the horrible, turgid football he plays.
The proof of the pudding will be in our first 3 signings.
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My point is that he has come in and has showed courage, to go out there straight away and set standards from the off.
That shows strength of character and a good deal of leadership and will breed respect, which like it or not was lacking last season.
Dunne, Collins et al will be under no illusion who is calling the shots, and will knucke down for the good of the team.
I am sorry but there is a comparison to be had with Saunders to be had in this respect.To Saunders the team ethic was the most important factor in delivering what he wanted to achieve and he was brutal in his desire to achieve this. 110% anybody. Gidman found out that he was not a man to be messed with.
A rudderless ship, regardless of the quality of its staff is going to go around in circles - he is providing direction. Time will tell if its rhetoric, but scrutiny and opinion should be witheld until he has been given a chance.
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I'm preying McLeish can do well ...
Preying, eh? - when do you think you'll strike at him?
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but scrutiny and opinion should be witheld until he has been given a chance.
Very well, don't make the Saunders comparisons then.
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I dont like AM because he's from Small Heath i dislike him for the horrible, turgid football he plays.
The proof of the pudding will be in our first 3 signings.
Absolutely correct - just hope Randy and Paul understand that as well. I dont expect players like Messi et al - but i also dont expect some of the dross we have been linked with (albeit by the media)
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I'm preying McLeish can do well ...
Preying, eh? - when do you think you'll strike at him?
Oops. Praying I meant.
Although i'll bring him down like a baby Gazelle if he does a shit job.
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The proof of the pudding will be in our first 3 signings.
Any proof of the pudding will not be about who he signs. Proof will be our results and how the team performs.
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So if he was to sign say SWP, DJ campbell and another donkey that wouldn't tell you anything about his and the clubs intentions??
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So if he was to sign say SWP, DJ campbell and another donkey that wouldn't tell you anything about his and the clubs intentions??
It might on the face of it show the clubs intentions yes. But even if we did and those players went on to win the first 3 games scoring lots of goals and playing well that would be the proof about the managers capabilities.
Anyway, it's pointless speculating about how good our manager might or might not be based on players he might or might not sign.
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No he isn't
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No he isn't Fitzy. Cha cha cha.
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Well, they both managed to relegate Blues...so you never know.
Talking of discipline, seeing footage of Ron in that knee-length black leather trench coat makes him look like some kind of Stan Lee inspired superhero. That'the kind of man we need getting this club back to the top!
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The proof of the pudding will be in our first 3 signings.
Any proof of the pudding will not be about who he signs. Proof will be our results and how the team performs.
If the first signing is Gareth Barry then the proof of the pudding will definitely be in the eating. :P
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I put your statement on par with someone who compared Baros to Brian Little.
So blues never played the worst football in the league, scored the fewest goals and got relegated then?
I dont like AM because he's from Small Heath i dislike him for the horrible, turgid football he plays.
The proof of the pudding will be in our first 3 signings.
To be fair to the guy, with the likes of Bowyer, Ferguson, Jerome, Ridgewell, Carr and the other drivvel he had in that squad, he was never going to be able to do anything other than play boring 4-5-1 shit football...
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Let's hope so.
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I put your statement on par with someone who compared Baros to Brian Little.
So blues never played the worst football in the league, scored the fewest goals and got relegated then?
I dont like AM because he's from Small Heath i dislike him for the horrible, turgid football he plays.
The proof of the pudding will be in our first 3 signings.
To be fair to the guy, with the likes of Bowyer, Ferguson, Jerome, Ridgewell, Carr and the other drivvel he had in that squad, he was never going to be able to do anything other than play boring 4-5-1 shit football...
But who signed those players in the first place?
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we really can't get carried away with comparisons especially ones as massively optimistic as this one. It would be great if AM does anything close to a Villa legend like Ron Saunders but even he'd concede that's a million miles away right now. AM isn't the worst manager ever as some would have had you believe when we were linked, but he's no Ron Saunders that's for sure.
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is McLeish the new Saunders ?...is he fuck !
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I put your statement on par with someone who compared Baros to Brian Little.
So blues never played the worst football in the league, scored the fewest goals and got relegated then?
I dont like AM because he's from Small Heath i dislike him for the horrible, turgid football he plays.
The proof of the pudding will be in our first 3 signings.
To be fair to the guy, with the likes of Bowyer, Ferguson, Jerome, Ridgewell, Carr and the other drivvel he had in that squad, he was never going to be able to do anything other than play boring 4-5-1 shit football...
But who signed those players in the first place?
Carson Yeung by all accounts ;)
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Possibly. But only if he teams up with Dawn French.
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but he's no Ron Saunders that's for sure.
More of a Ron Manager from The Fast Show.
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He's not even Dean Saunders, nevermind Ron Saunders. In fact, he not even French & Saunders but football can throw up strange combinations and at least over the summer I'll live in hope that McLeish is the right man for Aston Villa.
For the record, Ron Saunders is God.
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Lets just wait and see before we make any comparisons.
That said at least we can approach the season with an open mind, too.
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He's not even Dean Saunders, nevermind Ron Saunders. In fact, he not even French & Saunders but football can throw up strange combinations and at least over the summer I'll live in hope that McLeish is the right man for Aston Villa.
For the record, Ron Saunders is God.
No. GOD is God.
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I was extremely underwhelmed by the appointment of McLeish, but to be honest I didn't rate Harry Redknapp before he arrived at Spurs, and even now I only reluctantly accept that he is doing a great job there without necessarily being a great manager.
So I'm hoping that McLeish is the right man at the right club at the right time, but it will take some time before I change the view that he is an average manager.
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Eck is a good manager, his record is there to see. I would not put him in the same bracket as Ron Saunders, no where near it. However before Ron got the Villa job would you have thought he would have achieved what he did?
To judge him by his first three transfers is also a bit odd, I would rather judge him on his results really. I'm now looking forward to this season, he seems a very decent bloke, he seems to want the best for us and I like the bollocks he has shown coming here. I wouldn't bet against him doing well, but I wouldn't put money on us winning a League and Champions League Title either.
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Without wishing to be a doom monger wasn't Tommy Docherty fond of laying down the law (whatever that means) too?
Sounds a bit like 'tough on the causes of crime' to me.
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The positive for me about McLeish is that you know he will take the cups seriously and I have a sneaky feeling he may win us one
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He's just someone doing his job. He needs to be given a chance. Yes, I know he doesn't exactly have a great track record but who knows what he can achieve at a decent club with a decent team, a decent infra-structure and a decent owner? Yes, I am talking about us.
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No he's not. But he may turn out to be a good manager for Villa, we all just have to sit back and see what happens.
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Without wishing to be a doom monger wasn't Tommy Docherty fond of laying down the law (whatever that means) too?
Sounds a bit like 'tough on the causes of crime' to me.
He was with the players he inherited. The ones he bought were treated a lot more leniently.
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if he builds one of the most exciting teams in the clubs recent history and then ruthlessly changes it to be the most successfull team in the clubs recent history, the comparisons can begin.
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My point is that he has come in and has showed courage, to go out there straight away and set standards from the off.
That shows strength of character and a good deal of leadership and will breed respect, which like it or not was lacking last season.
Dunne, Collins et al will be under no illusion who is calling the shots, and will knucke down for the good of the team.
I am sorry but there is a comparison to be had with Saunders to be had in this respect.To Saunders the team ethic was the most important factor in delivering what he wanted to achieve and he was brutal in his desire to achieve this. 110% anybody. Gidman found out that he was not a man to be messed with.
A rudderless ship, regardless of the quality of its staff is going to go around in circles - he is providing direction. Time will tell if its rhetoric, but scrutiny and opinion should be witheld until he has been given a chance.
So that's how it works, is it? Manager says the usual guff soon after taking over and we praise him for installing discipline, just because he said he would?
Forgive me If I actually want to see how Dunne and Collins shape up before I start dishing out the comparisons to one of our greatest ever managers. Oh and your last sentence pretty much contradicts everything else prior to it.
Without wishing to be a doom monger wasn't Tommy Docherty fond of laying down the law (whatever that means) too?
Sounds a bit like 'tough on the causes of crime' to me.
He was with the players he inherited. The ones he bought were treated a lot more leniently.
That's generally the way of these things, isn't it? All managers are guilty of it.
New to the job: I inherited these players/ I owe them nothing/ they all have to play for their place.
In the job for a few years: I know he's struggling, but Billy Bob Joe will come good.
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No he's not. But he may turn out to be a good manager for Villa, we all just have to sit back and see what happens.
Let's hope so CV
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I get the feeling that McLeish could turn out to be like Fergie (given time).
I suppose we have to just wait and see.
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I get the feeling that McLeish could turn out to be like Fergie (given time).
I suppose we have to just wait and see.
What bankrupt and hawking himself around the US to higest bidder?
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It's just too quick to make a comparison, he hasn't had one game yet! There hasn't been anyone better since Saunders left-they have been tough boots to fill.Give AM a few seasons and we can compare.Different days now though-the best to hope for is a probably a Champions league spot and that appears increasingly unlikely
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There is such a massive difference between the Saunders' era and today's game that the comparison is not really worth making. I suppose there are quite a few similarities between the two managers, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
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its strange but the amount of non Villa fans I have spoken in recent weeks have said I think he will do good job at Villa...
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p.s that doesnt mean winning the league ;-)
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its strange but the amount of non Villa fans I have spoken in recent weeks have said I think he will do good job at Villa...
A) their expectations for us are always lower than ours because we're rarely thought of as a 'big' club by other fans, and B) what do other fans know, half of them probably think MON's the best thing since sliced bread.
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Is Jackthevillain the new Adolf Hitler?
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its strange but the amount of non Villa fans I have spoken in recent weeks have said I think he will do good job at Villa...
A) their expectations for us are always lower than ours because we're rarely thought of as a 'big' club by other fans, and B) what do other fans know, half of them probably think MON's the best thing since sliced bread.
well no , a few were Leicester fans had said he wasted so much money at villa and bought alot of shite and a Celtic fan said he did it to us too...
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Is Jackthevillain the new Adolf Hitler?
Yes but without an army
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its strange but the amount of non Villa fans I have spoken in recent weeks have said I think he will do good job at Villa...
A) their expectations for us are always lower than ours because we're rarely thought of as a 'big' club by other fans, and B) what do other fans know, half of them probably think MON's the best thing since sliced bread.
well no , a few were Leicester fans had said he wasted so much money at villa and bought alot of shite and a Celtic fan said he did it to us too...
Very true, it's good to guage from fans of clubs previously managed. Those never managed by MON will never truly know how frustrating that man is. FWIW, the Gers fans I speak to are split. Some just think he'll do well out of, it seems to me, mindless loyalty, some whose opinions I generally trust more think he'll struggle to adapt to a different level, but we'll see.
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I get the feeling that McLeish could turn out to be like Fergie (given time).
I suppose we have to just wait and see.
What bankrupt and hawking himself around the US to higest bidder?
No...a now ropey looking bird singing with the Black Eyed Peas
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Wasn't around during the Saunders era but I can't believe anyone even asked the question.
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When Ron Saunders became manager in 1974 the reaction amongst Villa fans was not a positive one. Most were still disappointed that Vic Crowe had been sacked by Ellis and Saunders had a reputation for dour, defensive football (although he had had some success playing this football). He had not managed at the level that we now aspire to and his disciplinarian style was regarded in the same way as Neil Warnock's is regarded now.
In spite of this, the supporters accepted him as the new manager and were rewarded with 8 years that were the most enjoyable that anyone has had down the Villa in our lifetime - promotion, 2 League Cups, the League, the highest top division scorers (1977) and finally his team becoming European Champions (even if he had left a couple of months earlier).
Not saying McLeish will be successful like Saunders - but no-one (including me) really thought he would be successful either.
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The time to judge AM's capabilities as a Villa manager will be about three months into the 2012/13 season.
By then he will have had three transfer windows to get rid of players he doesn't want and to bring in players he thinks will do a good job.
I'll grant him leeway this season because it will be his transition season, but by this time next year we should have a good idea what HIS team will look like.
All the talk about him being "The New Saunders" is well premature. Yes I can see the similarities in their personalities and their approach to discipline, but being a strict disciplinarian in the dressing room doesn't bring success by it's self, you also need the force of personality that makes the players want to play for you week in week out. From what I've been told by people who know, Mr. Saunders had both these qualities in spades.
So in answer to the question, AM could turn out to be a real gem. But I'll reserve judgment until he's just finished building his third successful Villa team, we are League Champions and in the latter stages of the Champions League, and he has walked out in a huff and joined one of our local rivals and promptly relegated them!!
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He's just someone doing his job. He needs to be given a chance. Yes, I know he doesn't exactly have a great track record but who knows what he can achieve at a decent club with a decent team, a decent infra-structure and a decent owner? Yes, I am talking about us.
I know its the 2 man league n all but Mcleish had the upper hand while he was up there. He won 9 trophies in 5 years compared to mons 7 in 5 years. Everyone concentrates on the relegation of sha but he got them their highest place finish in 50 odd years, won them their 1st meaningful trophey and their in europe next season, when he took them over they were shite.
Our biggest problem last season was the defence, he will sort that out and I think we at least win a trophey next season
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Lets all meet up again in 2 years time, and discuss his qualities then, he will still be there I have no doubt about that !!!
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As others have pointed out there are some superficial similarities in the type of appointment but that's about as far as you can go as there is nothing to go on other than a few words in the press.
I have a feeling that he could do a more than decent job but equally it could tits up but whatever happens I can't really imagine myself on the pitch at Hillsborough in the mud singing his name which is just about my best memory from the Saunders era..
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no.