Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on June 17, 2011, 01:22:17 PM
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Alex McLeish is manager of Aston Villa. No more rumours, speculation etc. I'm glad it's out the way and we can get back to preparing for football as opposed to the distraction of searching for a new manager. Now that reality will sink in, and you start to accept he is our manager, what will your position be?
I'm disappointed at the selection, but I will give him a chance to build something. For me he will start with a clean slate. I hope all of his experiences will make him a better manager. I'll be interested to see who he has on his coahing staff, the players he brings in, lets go, gives second chances to, and kids he promotes. With better football players at his disposal, I want to see if he is capable of continuing the work of GH and having us play a better brand of football. I'm not going to go crazy after the first defeat.
I know many of you won't share this view and you are all entitled to whatever stand you take on this appointment. But he's one of us now, whether we like it or not. I'm going to hope he is a massive success as I have nothing personally against him. I don't want him sacked, because if he is, he has failed. I don't want Aston Villa to fail.
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I don't see why we wouldn't give him a chance. He's manager of Villa now and that's all that matters
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
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I wonder if he will appear on the Tom Dross show tonight
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
The question is how many people will not give him that chance. We've got one already and it will be interesting to see if there are any more. After all, the fans booed off MON's team at half time when they were losing on the first home game of the season. What will they do to Mcleish's?
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Of course I'll back him. Now he's here, he gets my full support until such time as he demonstrates his unsuitability for the job through his results and conduct as Aston Villa manager.
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
That's just it. It isn't a stupid question given some of the anger shown against him leading up today, and even today. It should be a stupid question, but some people will turn on him with the first defeat predicting impending doom as early as August or September. I hope I am wrong, and people will be patient.
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Well said Toronto...lets all calm down and give the man a chance.
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To be honest the reaction towards him has been staggeringly evil by some. I find it very odd and quite embarrassing. I agree it was a strange appointment but he has had some success and he must have some inner belief to come here during this unusual period.
All the best, go out there and prove the doubters wrong (me included) and ignore the mind boggling insults which he does not warrant.
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
That's just it. It isn't a stupid question given some of the anger shown against him leading up today, and even today. It should be a stupid question, but some people will turn on him with the first defeat predicting impending doom as early as August or September. I hope I am wrong, and people will be patient.
I once read an academic paper that suggested the appropriate period for a PL manager's "honeymoon period" should be 8 games. If they didn't attain a certain level of performance after that you were as well to get rid.
How long are you going to give him?
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How long are you going to give him?
Depends how those 8 games go. If I see signs that things are coming together then I may give him longer. How about yourself?
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Yes of course, what's the alternative? I support Aston Villa, I want us to succeed and he's our manager.
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Of course I'll give him time. I hope everybody else does as well.
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Of course...I have nothing against him, he starts with a clean slate. It's the board who I'm angry with and if things go wrong I will want the likes of Faulkner gone, more than McLeish.
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Give him a chance! All this discontent is hardly his fault. It counts in his favour that he's ambitious enough to come and is by all accounts a decent man-manager.
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Am I the only one genuinely excited by this new regime at Villa Park?
Unleash the McCleish.
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Do we really need another thread to debate what appears to be being chewed over ad nauseum elsewhere?
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Yes of course I will, although if cameron Jerome was the first signing...........
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
That's just it. It isn't a stupid question given some of the anger shown against him leading up today, and even today. It should be a stupid question, but some people will turn on him with the first defeat predicting impending doom as early as August or September. I hope I am wrong, and people will be patient.
I once read an academic paper that suggested the appropriate period for a PL manager's "honeymoon period" should be 8 games. If they didn't attain a certain level of performance after that you were as well to get rid.
How long are you going to give him?
Not sure what the number is, but much longer than 8 games VD. Whoever wrote that paper is an idiot. I don't believe in honeymoon periods, I believe in giving someone a chance to establish themselves in a position, and have to time to influence those around them as to their beliefs and principles. Be it in business or football. Sport by nature is far more volatile and I get that, and even more so today with everyone having instant opinions patience comes at a premium.
We will all gauge his progress differently, and maybe 8 games will give us a chance to see what the future might look like. But it can never tell us the full story, and especially at the start of a season in a new job. In fact, if 8 games was any gauge, David Moyes would have been sacked several times over at Everton. Maybe I'll just look at things in 1/2 season increments for now.
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How long are you going to give him?
Depends how those 8 games go. If I see signs that things are coming together then I may give him longer. How about yourself?
I'll be fine unless it looks like he might get us relegated.
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I'm mightily pissed off with his appointment but from today he has my full support and I hope he's a success because it means we're a success.
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I am sure the rational fans will give him a chance until results dictate otherwise. I hope they back him with funds to create the environment he wants, and I also hope the money is not from potential sales of star players.
I am praying Randy is still determined to invest in the squad and move us forward.
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I'm going to burn all my clothes in front of the Villa Village.
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I'm going to burn all my clothes in front of the Villa Village.
All of them Dave?
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Absolutely!
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I'm going to burn all my clothes in front of the Villa Village.
All of them Dave?
Not his Tamwurf boxers I assume.
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Welcome to the Villa, Alex.
Hope you enjoyed your honeymoon period.
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I'm going to burn all my clothes in front of the Villa Village.
Remember to take them off first.
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I'm going to burn all my clothes in front of the Villa Village.
All of them Dave?
Yes, I cannot say for certain which of them I have worn at a Villa match so on the off chance they are tainted with having been in contact with a club that has appointed a Bluenose - A BLUENOSE!!!! I'm afraid they all have to go. It's the only way Ransy will learn.
Except the Tamworth boxers of course.
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I m not going to pretend I wanted him because I didn't. However he is here now so I will support him. I m not sure if the first few fixtures are good or bad for him. All very winnable but if we don't get three decent results the pressure will really be on !
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Welcome to the Villa, Alex.
Hope you enjoyed your honeymoon period.
If you're not sure what a honeymoon period is ask Randy. His was fantastic. Nothing lasts forever though.
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87.3% is a good indication that Villa fans are fair minded and level headed, despite how we have been portrayed in the media of late.
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I'm going to stamp on the glowing embers of Dave Coopers clothes I'm that angry. I don't believe that he's done anything to entitle him to a crack at managing my club but if he earns my respect he'll, fucking begrudgingly, get it.
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Am I the only one genuinely excited by this new regime at Villa Park?
Unleash the McCleish.
Bring on the Ginger Ninja.
Crack out the Mac.
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87.3% is a good indication that Villa fans are fair minded and level headed, despite how we have been portrayed in the media of late.
Is that the same 87% on the earlier poll who didnt want him???
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Lets just wait and see.
Trouble is, he has no credit in the bank so the presure is on him to deliver and quickly.
The next poll will probably be on when the first banner goes up.
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Give him a chance! All this discontent is hardly his fault. It counts in his favour that he's ambitious enough to come and is by all accounts a decent man-manager.
A decent man manager??? How do you work that one out???
was that reflected in the Blues side who he took down twice???
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Give him a chance! All this discontent is hardly his fault. It counts in his favour that he's ambitious enough to come and is by all accounts a decent man-manager.
A decent man manager??? How do you work that one out???
was that reflected in the Blues side who he took down twice???
Can we take it you aren't going to give him a chance?
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Give him a chance! All this discontent is hardly his fault. It counts in his favour that he's ambitious enough to come and is by all accounts a decent man-manager.
I back this statement.
If he was a total hand job he would have packed it all in after seeing what he was up against.
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87.3% is a good indication that Villa fans are fair minded and level headed, despite how we have been portrayed in the media of late.
Is that the same 87% on the earlier poll who didnt want him???
There's a huge difference between not wanting him and not giving him a chance now he's here.
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Am I the only one genuinely excited by this new regime at Villa Park?
Unleash the McCleish.
I am, but I was afraid of the reaction I would get! I think he'll do well tbh
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not 2 days ago everyone was set against this and now on radio and on here everyone is happy i for one am not and people who have posted on this topic are happy and glad should maybe read there previous post before he was given the job yes i will support the club i love but no i wont be backing him or singing his name win lose or draw VTID
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There may be a difference between rhetorics and reality on this issue. Even if people state that they'll give him time and a clean slate, a few of us will jump at the earliest opportunity to criticise his tactics, team selections and signings -- especially if results and performances are less than brilliant.
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not 2 days ago everyone was set against this and now on radio and on here everyone is happy i for one am not and people who have posted on this topic are happy and glad should maybe read there previous post before he was given the job yes i will support the club i love but no i wont be backing him or singing his name win lose or draw VTID
I was against the idea of him coming. But reality has kicked in, he's now the manager of AVFC and he gets my 100% support.
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100% Backing from me. All that matters is that the manager and team get the full support of the fans.
As soon as the fans turn against him, which may not be long into his time as manager, the players will feel under further pressure and probably not perform as well.
UTV
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not 2 days ago everyone was set against this and now on radio and on here everyone is happy
I think to say everyone is 'happy' on here is stretching it a tad.
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The overwhelming majority were against him but as Villa supporters our natural inclination is to support the team, no matter what a pigs ear the board have made of the managers appointment. He'll need to win something to make him anything but unpopular but I'm not going to knock those trying to be optimistic about season ahead.
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well done lads a great turn around in opinion and thanks for giving him a chance - well its been a long old season , let me wish you all a happy summer ahead and see you all again in august (or on the transfer thread).
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well done lads a great turn around in opinion
It's not like we have a choice is it? It's either adapt or abandon your team.
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I didn't want him and think it's an absolutely ridiculous decision, but now that he's here we're stuck with him. Therefore I hope he does extremely well, just as I would if we'd appointed Trevor Francis or Paul tait, as the alternative is the Villa losing which none of us wants.
Still a shit appointment though.
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well done lads a great turn around in opinion and thanks for giving him a chance - well its been a long old season , let me wish you all a happy summer ahead and see you all again in august (or on the transfer thread).
Enjoy your summer Eastie, and prepare to put your tin hat on when the 'told you so' brigade are out in force.
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I didn't want him as manager but he's here, fixtures are out, transfer window is open and it's business as usual and clean slate as far as I am concerned. Whilst not by any means overwhelmed by the appointment, let's see what he can do. Now taken my "don't want him" hat off and put my Villa one back on. Feels a lot better.
Balls of steel, I'll give him that much.
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I want an option between maybe and yes.
He'll get until october if things start badly. If by that point the results and more importantly performances aren't good enough then it'll be time to look elsewhere. If his record was for getting teams to play good football he'd have more credit in the bank and I'd let bad results go a little longer (as with houllier last year).
His signings and selections in the pre season games will be important as well. If he gets those wrong he'll have a hard job before a ball is kicked in the league as it won't take a lot for fans to jump on him.
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There were a lot of people who said they would not to renew their season tickets, I'm guessing only 7 so far are backing that point up by not giving him a chance?
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1stly i did'nt want McLeish, but now hes here its time to move on and support the team.
What i would say is that with all the background aggrovation, the petitons, demonstrations, grafitti, and overall negativity towards his appointment , if i was in his shoes there is no way i would have taken the job, but he did, because despite it all he wants to manage AVFC.Ok he is going to be well rewarded, but i think hes shown some bottle to accept the job,
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avfcpg...well done sir!
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
That's just it. It isn't a stupid question given some of the anger shown against him leading up today, and even today. It should be a stupid question, but some people will turn on him with the first defeat predicting impending doom as early as August or September. I hope I am wrong, and people will be patient.
I once read an academic paper that suggested the appropriate period for a PL manager's "honeymoon period" should be 8 games. If they didn't attain a certain level of performance after that you were as well to get rid.
How long are you going to give him?
Not sure what the number is, but much longer than 8 games VD. Whoever wrote that paper is an idiot. I don't believe in honeymoon periods, I believe in giving someone a chance to establish themselves in a position, and have to time to influence those around them as to their beliefs and principles. Be it in business or football. Sport by nature is far more volatile and I get that, and even more so today with everyone having instant opinions patience comes at a premium.
We will all gauge his progress differently, and maybe 8 games will give us a chance to see what the future might look like. But it can never tell us the full story, and especially at the start of a season in a new job. In fact, if 8 games was any gauge, David Moyes would have been sacked several times over at Everton. Maybe I'll just look at things in 1/2 season increments for now.
He wasn't an idiot, I wouldn't have paid it any attention if he was. He just an academic who produced a simple (simplistic?) model for determining when was the best time to sack a manager. If I remember correctly, the purpose of the model was to assess the point at which performance drops below the acceptable level for clubs with different ambitions and facilities.
I understand that 8 games seems low but the average tenure for a PL manager is (was?) less than 18 months (50 games??). It's not impossible that 8 games is the optimum amount of time for the honeymoon period where sacking shouldn't be considered at all.
The point about Moyes doesn't apply because you don't reset the honeymoon period every season, you use a weighted average of his results since he took over.
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McLeish is a desperately poor appointment. That's not his fault, it's Lerner's.
I see no reason to expect McLeish to change his methods so it's almost certainly going to be dour, safety-first, attritional football which will bring mediocre results. But again, you can't blame McLeish for that - it's what he does.
My beef is with Lerner for appointing McLeish, not McLeish himself.
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
That's just it. It isn't a stupid question given some of the anger shown against him leading up today, and even today. It should be a stupid question, but some people will turn on him with the first defeat predicting impending doom as early as August or September. I hope I am wrong, and people will be patient.
I once read an academic paper that suggested the appropriate period for a PL manager's "honeymoon period" should be 8 games. If they didn't attain a certain level of performance after that you were as well to get rid.
How long are you going to give him?
Not sure what the number is, but much longer than 8 games VD. Whoever wrote that paper is an idiot. I don't believe in honeymoon periods, I believe in giving someone a chance to establish themselves in a position, and have to time to influence those around them as to their beliefs and principles. Be it in business or football. Sport by nature is far more volatile and I get that, and even more so today with everyone having instant opinions patience comes at a premium.
We will all gauge his progress differently, and maybe 8 games will give us a chance to see what the future might look like. But it can never tell us the full story, and especially at the start of a season in a new job. In fact, if 8 games was any gauge, David Moyes would have been sacked several times over at Everton. Maybe I'll just look at things in 1/2 season increments for now.
He wasn't an idiot, I wouldn't have paid it any attention if he was. He just an academic who produced a simple (simplistic?) model for determining when was the best time to sack a manager. If I remember correctly, the purpose of the model was to assess the point at which performance drops below the acceptable level for clubs with different ambitions and facilities.
I understand that 8 games seems low but the average tenure for a PL manager is (was?) less than 18 months (50 games??). It's not impossible that 8 games is the optimum amount of time for the honeymoon period where sacking shouldn't be considered at all.
The point about Moyes doesn't apply because you don't reset the honeymoon period every season, you use a weighted average of his results since he took over.
It's measured 8 games of a PL football season that lasts 38, and you still have to throw in cup games which will influence peoples views. It's like saying you start a new job in a firm and within 2 months you need to know everyone, where everything is, who to ask when you have a problem, know your staff, get in the right staff, get rid of the bad staff, make sure everyone is happy and settled and pulling the right direction, and ensure that your business has gone in the direction that your supervisors and customers expect. It's completely unreasonable. Academic study or not. It doesn't work for football and it doesn't work in real life.
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Anyone who has voted 'no' might as well stop posting as they clearly want nothing to do with the club anymore. I'm not impressed, but what choice do I have? He'll get a chance and I hope he proves me wrong.
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No offence but i take the results of polls on here with a generous pinch of salt, when it comes to Villa supporters.
Regardless of what the majority of posters on here say, he will get stick from day one. Anyone who has been to Villa Park has sat within earshot of someone dishing out abuse to Villa players/managers/chairmen, as soon as the going gets tough. We may all on here want to give him a chance, but i think there are a lot of Villa fans that will not. Unless this manager achieves what no manager since the early 90's has done, i.e get us challenging for the title, I don't believe he will be given much time/chance to prove himself. Sad i know but true. Honestly can anyone ever see 40,000 Villa fans singing his name. I predict turbulent times ahead. He will be blamed for selling Young for starters, and then depending on the transfer window, he may not even get a chance of 8 games. The first defeat, and or first bad performance the fans will vent their frustration, (which a lot currently have against the board) at the manager.
I personally think it is a very disappointing and poor choice of manager, and would love to have to eat my words, but i just can't be positive about AM. Maybe this is the kind of appointment we need, as our expectation level is now so low, that anything positive is a bonus.
By the way i answered maybe.
Still support the Villa, but have lost faith and trust in the management to do the best for my club.
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How could you use 8 games as a benchmark if those 8 games, or at least the majority of them, were all aginst the top sides?
It's hard to say until we see what each teams transfer dealings are, but as best you can I'd say:-
Fulham away - draw
Blackburn home - win
Wolves home - win
Everton away - loss
Newcastle home - win
QPR away - draw
Wigan home - win
Man City away - loss
14 points from 8 sames is good form, but then we've got a relatively easy start!
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I will back him 110% we must get behind him he just might turn out to be very good Villa manager who knows as long has he does his best for Villa that's the main thing I'm really looking forward to seeing which players he is going to bring in I can't wait until the pre-season games start everything will turn out good in the end.
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It's measured 8 games of a PL football season that lasts 38, and you still have to throw in cup games which will influence peoples views. It's like saying you start a new job in a firm and within 2 months you need to know everyone, where everything is, who to ask when you have a problem, know your staff, get in the right staff, get rid of the bad staff, make sure everyone is happy and settled and pulling the right direction, and ensure that your business has gone in the direction that your supervisors and customers expect. It's completely unreasonable. Academic study or not. It doesn't work for football and it doesn't work in real life.
This started as a simple suggestion that 8 games (I should have said league games) might be the optimum amount of time for a honeymoon period and asking what yours is. You seem to be saying that their can't be a defined honeymoon period and there can't be a defined level of acceptable performance below which a manager should be sacked. I disagree with that and there is nothing unusual in other high-pressure, results orientated businesses for senior managers to be expected to get tangible results in a relatively short period of time.
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If he changes the mindset of even 50% of the supporters who have been against his appointment
I reckon he ought to be awarded Premier Manager of Year -
Nothing against him personally even though he is associated with the other lot but can't say as I
have ever sat back and thought of him as a better than average manager -
It will be interesting who he brings with him and more importantly what happens to Sid & KMac along
with Academy coaching staff - I for one will be spitting feathers if those doing a good job with the youngsters
are shown the door -
Similarly how he deals with retaining current players, motivating some and possibly giving a chance to others
that were out of favour last season (Ireland & Warnock in particular) -
Having managed to refrain from punching holes in doors around the house I've also (whisper) decided to retain
my season ticket in the hope that it won't be a total disaster when our players kick off in a few weeks time-
Can't promise to give the guy much slack however, but would like to issue him a challenge ........make us hard to
beat and get the majority of our lads playing near their full potential on a consistent basis and I'm sure everything
will be hunkydory -
As others have said it's a win/win for Villa supporters like me ............if we play poorly and struggle to pick up points
there will be cries of 'told you so' aimed at Mr Lerner but positive football and decent results will maybe win a few
votes of support which clearly Big Eck is short of at this moment in time, although I note that several distinguished
names have leapt to his defence in the last 48 hours
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
That's just it. It isn't a stupid question given some of the anger shown against him leading up today, and even today. It should be a stupid question, but some people will turn on him with the first defeat predicting impending doom as early as August or September. I hope I am wrong, and people will be patient.
I once read an academic paper that suggested the appropriate period for a PL manager's "honeymoon period" should be 8 games. If they didn't attain a certain level of performance after that you were as well to get rid.
How long are you going to give him?
Not sure what the number is, but much longer than 8 games VD. Whoever wrote that paper is an idiot. I don't believe in honeymoon periods, I believe in giving someone a chance to establish themselves in a position, and have to time to influence those around them as to their beliefs and principles. Be it in business or football. Sport by nature is far more volatile and I get that, and even more so today with everyone having instant opinions patience comes at a premium.
We will all gauge his progress differently, and maybe 8 games will give us a chance to see what the future might look like. But it can never tell us the full story, and especially at the start of a season in a new job. In fact, if 8 games was any gauge, David Moyes would have been sacked several times over at Everton. Maybe I'll just look at things in 1/2 season increments for now.
He wasn't an idiot, I wouldn't have paid it any attention if he was. He just an academic who produced a simple (simplistic?) model for determining when was the best time to sack a manager. If I remember correctly, the purpose of the model was to assess the point at which performance drops below the acceptable level for clubs with different ambitions and facilities.
I understand that 8 games seems low but the average tenure for a PL manager is (was?) less than 18 months (50 games??). It's not impossible that 8 games is the optimum amount of time for the honeymoon period where sacking shouldn't be considered at all.
The point about Moyes doesn't apply because you don't reset the honeymoon period every season, you use a weighted average of his results since he took over.
It's measured 8 games of a PL football season that lasts 38, and you still have to throw in cup games which will influence peoples views. It's like saying you start a new job in a firm and within 2 months you need to know everyone, where everything is, who to ask when you have a problem, know your staff, get in the right staff, get rid of the bad staff, make sure everyone is happy and settled and pulling the right direction, and ensure that your business has gone in the direction that your supervisors and customers expect. It's completely unreasonable. Academic study or not. It doesn't work for football and it doesn't work in real life.
The only problem with your analogy is that in most jobs you don't have 80-90% of your customer base not wanting you to get the job. Add to that the fact that he's going to be earning more in a season that many people will earn in their lifetime and it's perfectly reasonable to expect him to be able to come in and do a good job from day one, 8 games takes us into october and is probably a fair point to reflect on his. Less than 10 points will suggest a relegation battle above 15 suggests challenging the top 4.
In his favour is a very very nice run at the start of the season of 7 games that we should be looking to win most of, if he can get that right the momentum may be enough to turn the fans in his favour and see us progress, if he fails there calls for his head will be ringing around the ground. Look at the fixtures in december, there's not too many points around after swansea in november until we play them again in January.
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McLeish is a desperately poor appointment. That's not his fault, it's Lerner's.
I see no reason to expect McLeish to change his methods so it's almost certainly going to be dour, safety-first, attritional football which will bring mediocre results. But again, you can't blame McLeish for that - it's what he does.
My beef is with Lerner for appointing McLeish, not McLeish himself.
Do you know for a fact that is how his teams in Scotland played? Or did he, perhaps, change his methods to suit the situation when he was managing a small club in England?
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Any news on whether KMac/Cowans/etc will be staying?
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I will support him based on results.
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It's measured 8 games of a PL football season that lasts 38, and you still have to throw in cup games which will influence peoples views. It's like saying you start a new job in a firm and within 2 months you need to know everyone, where everything is, who to ask when you have a problem, know your staff, get in the right staff, get rid of the bad staff, make sure everyone is happy and settled and pulling the right direction, and ensure that your business has gone in the direction that your supervisors and customers expect. It's completely unreasonable. Academic study or not. It doesn't work for football and it doesn't work in real life.
This started as a simple suggestion that 8 games (I should have said league games) might be the optimum amount of time for a honeymoon period and asking what yours is. You seem to be saying that their can't be a defined honeymoon period and there can't be a defined level of acceptable performance below which a manager should be sacked. I disagree with that and there is nothing unusual in other high-pressure, results orientated businesses for senior managers to be expected to get tangible results in a relatively short period of time.
I'm not trying to be argumentative VD. I just think 8 games, however you cut it is a really short period of time to judge anyone on anything. You can get an idea in terms of the direction being created, but nothing more than that. If it was 8 games into his second season then at least we have a body of work to go by. I think by Christmas we'll have a better picture because players/coaches will mostly have settled in to their new roles, and we should be able to see a playing style.
I don't entirely agree with the notion that he always plays one way, because just as GH found out early on, you have to have certain players to play a certain way. Maybe he worked with what he had based on the criteria set by their meddling board. His mandate at Villa will be to compete at the top end of the table. Hopefully his tactics, style of play, players he buys etc will reflect that in time.
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McLeish is a desperately poor appointment. That's not his fault, it's Lerner's.
I see no reason to expect McLeish to change his methods so it's almost certainly going to be dour, safety-first, attritional football which will bring mediocre results. But again, you can't blame McLeish for that - it's what he does.
My beef is with Lerner for appointing McLeish, not McLeish himself.
Do you know for a fact that is how his teams in Scotland played? Or did he, perhaps, change his methods to suit the situation when he was managing a small club in England?
The problem is Chris, the board have stated that he was employed due to his proven premier league record, the argument against is that his premier league record is far from proven.
That said, out of interest in his first full season at rangers they got over 100 goals. After that they recorded 76 and 79 (and less the following year but he wasn't manager for the full season). I guess the discussion therefore has to be whether 2 goals a game a good return in that league.
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Cowans has a job for life going nowhere! . Re AM aint happy but will back him now and no doubt about it must have knackers the size of spacehoppers .
As for Randy he has put 200 million in without taking anything out so he has my trust and backing 100 % despite my misgivings over AM appointment hope he goes on to prove me wrong .
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Cowans has a job for life going nowhere! . Re AM aint happy but will back him now and no doubt about it must have knackers the size of spacehoppers .
Yes I think he has. People say "oh he's going to be paid such and such and he'll have compensation if he gets fired" - but the same is true of many far cushier options he could have chosen, not to mention the massive blot this would put on his record if it does all go wrong.
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12 people so far are arseholes, and effectively wish our club ill.
Shame, shame, shame on you.
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Cowans has a job for life going nowhere! . Re AM aint happy but will back him now and no doubt about it must have knackers the size of spacehoppers .
Yes I think he has. People say "oh he's going to be paid such and such and he'll have compensation if he gets fired" - but the same is true of many far cushier options he could have chosen, not to mention the massive blot this would put on his record if it does all go wrong.
Buster Gonad's claret and blue army
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LeeB, are bluenoses allowed to vote on our site? Just a thought....
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Stupid Question!
Alex McLeish's Claret & Blue Army! A.V.F.C!!
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I will support him 100% as long as we win all games 4 - 0
lucky he has some browny points by taking Small Heath down (twice), otherwise I would settle for nothing less than 6 - 0
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LeeB, are bluenoses allowed to vote on our site? Just a thought....
Maybe, but I doubt it's all twelve.
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Well, a Premier League CV which boasts being relegated twice in three seasons is anything to go by, he's got an awful lot to prove. It's not like we're cutting a Rijkaard or a Houllier a bit of slack based on past achievements, for fcuk sake.
Maybe 45 minutes against Fulham.
And winning a few pots at Rangers is a bit like likening the 25-year-old who beats all the fat 40-somethings in the dads' race on school sports day to Usain Bolt.
To be honest, it's a massive struggle to say 'yes'. I can't remember a single Villa managerial appointment in my life that has applied to.
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Cowans has a job for life going nowhere! . Re AM aint happy but will back him now and no doubt about it must have knackers the size of spacehoppers .
As for Randy he has put 200 million in without taking anything out so he has my trust and backing 100 % despite my misgivings over AM appointment hope he goes on to prove me wrong .
Not so, he's taken out "management charges".
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100% behind him and think he'll do a cracking job.
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Cowans has a job for life going nowhere! . Re AM aint happy but will back him now and no doubt about it must have knackers the size of spacehoppers .
As for Randy he has put 200 million in without taking anything out so he has my trust and backing 100 % despite my misgivings over AM appointment hope he goes on to prove me wrong .
Not so, he's taken out "management charges".
do you know how much? I'm guessing it's a fraction of what he's put in though.
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Cowans has a job for life going nowhere! . Re AM aint happy but will back him now and no doubt about it must have knackers the size of spacehoppers .
As for Randy he has put 200 million in without taking anything out so he has my trust and backing 100 % despite my misgivings over AM appointment hope he goes on to prove me wrong .
Not so, he's taken out "management charges".
do you know how much? I'm guessing it's a fraction of what he's put in though.
From memory, about £9m I think. It is a fraction, but isn't "nothing".
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...
It's measured 8 games of a PL football season that lasts 38, and you still have to throw in cup games which will influence peoples views. It's like saying you start a new job in a firm and within 2 months you need to know everyone, where everything is, who to ask when you have a problem, know your staff, get in the right staff, get rid of the bad staff, make sure everyone is happy and settled and pulling the right direction, and ensure that your business has gone in the direction that your supervisors and customers expect. It's completely unreasonable. Academic study or not. It doesn't work for football and it doesn't work in real life.
This started as a simple suggestion that 8 games (I should have said league games) might be the optimum amount of time for a honeymoon period and asking what yours is. You seem to be saying that their can't be a defined honeymoon period and there can't be a defined level of acceptable performance below which a manager should be sacked. I disagree with that and there is nothing unusual in other high-pressure, results orientated businesses for senior managers to be expected to get tangible results in a relatively short period of time.
Do you have any league tables to back up that theory villadawg?
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I'm behind the Villa, regardless of who is in charge. Following this club is always interesting and I cannot wait for the new season to start and see how we do. Up the Villa.
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12 people so far are arseholes, and effectively wish our club ill.
Shame, shame, shame on you.
Make that 13, fella. The first clause is wholly subjective, but I'll live with it; the second one is, with due respect, bollocks. I sincerely hope that this manager with a record in English football predicated almost entirely on failure will surprise me pleasantly.
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Definitely will be given a reasonable chance to prove himself in the job from me.
Had to chuckle when watching SSN earlier. The reporter at BH said that he was briefly speaking with McLeish, and asked him if he realised that he'd have to win over a section of the villa support. McLeish's response was "do you think I'm mad?" so I think it's fair to say that he appreciates the challenge he's letting himself in for!
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12 people so far are arseholes, and effectively wish our club ill.
Shame, shame, shame on you.
Make that 13, fella. The first clause is wholly subjective, but I'll live with it; the second one is, with due respect, bollocks. I sincerely hope that this manager with a record in English football predicated almost entirely on failure will surprise me pleasantly.
Other than the trophy he won, of course.
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SSN reporter saying he said 'You just don't turn down Aston Villa' off camera.
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Cowans has a job for life going nowhere! . Re AM aint happy but will back him now and no doubt about it must have knackers the size of spacehoppers .
As for Randy he has put 200 million in without taking anything out so he has my trust and backing 100 % despite my misgivings over AM appointment hope he goes on to prove me wrong .
Not so, he's taken out "management charges".
do you know how much? I'm guessing it's a fraction of what he's put in though.
From memory, about £9m I think. It is a fraction, but isn't "nothing".
Isn't about half of that £200m debt, for which he takes interest charges?
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Cowans has a job for life going nowhere! . Re AM aint happy but will back him now and no doubt about it must have knackers the size of spacehoppers .
As for Randy he has put 200 million in without taking anything out so he has my trust and backing 100 % despite my misgivings over AM appointment hope he goes on to prove me wrong .
Not so, he's taken out "management charges".
do you know how much? I'm guessing it's a fraction of what he's put in though.
From memory, about £9m I think. It is a fraction, but isn't "nothing".
Isn't about half of that £200m debt, for which he takes interest charges?
That as well.
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SSN reporter saying he said 'You just don't turn down Aston Villa' off camera.
...when you play shit football and have just been relegated you don't. It sounds like a few other managers found a way.
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SSN reporter saying he said 'You just don't turn down Aston Villa' off camera.
*Thumbs up*
As Dave said, he's been more respectful and in tune with our club in one opening statement and an off-air comment than the previous manager, a man who I liked, managed in the time he was here.
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Do you have any league tables to back up that theory villadawg?
No sorry, as I said earlier it was something I read in an academic paper.
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Just a thought, but last season many people had had it with Houllier because it was believed he didn't understand the history of the club, and the expectations of the fans.
Well there's probably not a better placed manager out there to correct that, seeing as he's spent the last three years over the road wishing he was managing us.
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SSN reporter saying he said 'You just don't turn down Aston Villa' off camera.
*Thumbs up*
As Dave said, he's been more respectful and in tune with our club in one opening statement and an off-air comment than the previous manager, a man who I liked, managed in the time he was here.
I don't know why, maybe it's because they're a bit more respectful of tradition, but Scots seem to hold the Villa in more esteem than the English do. That's why I'm glad Sirralex said what he did - he might be a twat but I genuinely think he means well.
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I will certainly give him a chance.
Ron Saunders was looked askance when he came, Graham who?
McLeish has never entered into Villa-bashing while at SHA and was complementary about us after the 5-1
His abhorrent time with the unwashed masses will be expunged with his first trophy I should imagine
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Clean slate. Not once has he ever slagged us off and irked the way that some of that city lot can. I can only see one problem, and that's because of the history, he wont get the standard 10 game bedding in period that all new bosses get, 2 draws and a loss and there'll be shotgun toting fans running on the concourses...
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Clean slate. Not once has he ever slagged us off and irked the way that some of that city lot can. I can only see one problem, and that's because of the history, he wont get the standard 10 game bedding in period that all new bosses get, 2 draws and a loss and there'll be shotgun toting fans running on the concourses...
...probably trying to shoot warts off their fingers.
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Nice3 article in the Times this morning by the way dave w.
Share most your thoughts; slightly thawing my attitude towards McLeish, and my disappointment in RL.Be interesting what kind of impact we have in the transfer market this summer.
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The mood around the chosen ones at work was that the protests had gone over the top and made them realise it's time now to back the manager.
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He's not the bloke we wanted or expected but he's here now and we've got to get behind him otherwise he'll fail anyway and that means giving him a rousing reception when he walks out at VP against Blackburn, even if we've lost the opening game.
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I think Alex will have a head start on most former Villa manager. As he know the area and what we can do and understand Midlands football. I think he is a decent bloke (Not sure) and if he work on Aston Villa to improve the team and increase firepower and tightened up and continue developing young players and work with our coaching staff. If he want to add coaching staff, they should be as addition not replacement.
As we are good footballing side, he won't want to change the footballing side. Just sort out off the ball work and defending and set pieces.
Perhaps he will be able to attract higher quality players for the club as they wouldn't want to play for Birmingham City.
There is no point getting too angry with Alex and we have to give him a chance and clean slate. Did he do anything bad apart from managing Birmingham City and playing unsexy football.
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SSN reporter saying he said 'You just don't turn down Aston Villa' off camera.
*Thumbs up*
As Dave said, he's been more respectful and in tune with our club in one opening statement and an off-air comment than the previous manager, a man who I liked, managed in the time he was here.
He has always been very complimentary about us when interviewed about us in the past too...
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Bite your tounge and give him a chance. We, as a set of fans have to back the manager and team. No matter who, no matter what! We have been a bunch of moaners for a long time now and where has it got us? Time to focus our energy on getting behind the team in every minute of every game. We are the 12th man, but when we are booing we are the 12th man for the opposition!
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He's not a prat like Barry Fry who will come out with a load of crap to get the supporters on his side but I suspect he will throw in some considered and genuine comments at 'The most eagerly awaited press conference of all time' which will make us warm to him more.
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Most pointless poll evoh. Doesn't matter how you voted, it will turn nasty the first bad result. Get to christmas and we're dragging along the bottom all hell will break loose
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Most pointless poll evoh. Doesn't matter how you voted, it will turn nasty the first bad result. Get to christmas and we're dragging along the bottom all hell will break loose
That's the spirit Greg :)
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He will get my support, but anticipate my patience won't be what it was under, for example, GT MkII.
If things aren't going well come late Autumn, I would imagine that life in the dugout will become very uncomfortable.
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Most pointless poll evoh. Doesn't matter how you voted, it will turn nasty the first bad result. Get to christmas and we're dragging along the bottom all hell will break loose
It's just a shame greg that there are people who will be thinking the same way as you. It really doesn't have to be that way after 1 bad result. Good to see you are preparing yourself accordingly.
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I give him till Xmas and by than he needs to have at least 30 points on board from 20 games. That is now too hard.
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Got to back him now - pointless and self destructive not to
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I expect 114 points by the end of season :) with 38 clean sheet
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I'm not thinking that way Toronto, it's just how its going to go. Already we're battoning down the hatches, rallying around the club and its gone from anger to general disgruntlement but as soon as the season starts the gloves will come off. I'm praying for a miracle and we somehow find ourselves chasing a CL place all season because if we're not - Houllier got 5 months, if that, before the knives were out. Mcliesh may get a first half of the opening game.
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Most were vehemently against his appointment a few short days ago, is it so strange that those strong feelings haven't yet subsided and he might have to actually do something to prove us wrong rather than mouth some well worn platitudes?
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Yes, we should give the man a chance. Hes our manager now lets see what he can do.
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Most pointless poll evoh. Doesn't matter how you voted, it will turn nasty the first bad result. Get to christmas and we're dragging along the bottom all hell will break loose
FFS Greg, he's the Villa manager now, support him. Saint Gerrard de Houllier has gone and ain't coming back. Get over it!
(snigger)
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Thank God for gregnash. A voice of sanity in the asylum.
Greg, I agree with every word you say and thank you for saying it.
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Do you know for a fact that is how his teams in Scotland played? Or did he, perhaps, change his methods to suit the situation when he was managing a small club in England?
Perhaps when playing against the also-rans in Scotland he found it easier to be more expansive. But that was the league in which Stilian Petrov was a free-scoring midfielder. So if you're expecting vibrant, incisive flair football Chris I think you're going to be in for a huge disappointment.
If Lerner appointed McLeish with the same expectation then it's an even more barking decision than it already was.
Under McLeish SHA played desperately shite football. You know that, I know that, hell even the Noses knew that. And despite playing a system designed to forego entertainment for mere survival, they still got relegated twice. If he knew a better way to play, no doubt he would have played it.
Given the pressure that he'll be under from the word go, I don't believe for a moment that he's going to try anything other than risk-free, safety-first football.
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Most pointless poll evoh. Doesn't matter how you voted, it will turn nasty the first bad result. Get to christmas and we're dragging along the bottom all hell will break loose
Agree, it dosent matter what people are saying now, his style of football will make the MON era look like a Bolshoy touring cast. I actually hope that he will be given some time but I doubt it.
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Most pointless poll evoh. Doesn't matter how you voted, it will turn nasty the first bad result. Get to christmas and we're dragging along the bottom all hell will break loose
Agree, it dosent matter what people are saying now, his style of football will make the MON era look like a Bolshoy touring cast. I actually hope that he will be given some time but I doubt it.
Actually I think if he gives results all will be quiet (except for the unsettled few), regardless of what the football "looks" like. However the biggest problem with this appointment is the instant something goes wrong it will be on like Donkey Kong. Even if the biggest problem would've passed without the batting of an eye in previous years.
This will be rough.
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thing is hilts, the pressure is being created by us. The very people who should be supporting him as opposed to making his job more difficult. Now that he's here we should be doing everything we can to ensure he is as successful as possible. Unfortunately, there is going to be a section of fans who won't give him a chance, and will be on his case at the very earliest opportunity. I mean, heaven forbid we lose a pre-season match.
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thing is hilts, the pressure is being created by us. The very people who should be supporting him as opposed to making his job more difficult. Now that he's here we should be doing everything we can to ensure he is as successful as possible. Unfortunately, there is going to be a section of fans who won't give him a chance, and will be on his case at the very earliest opportunity. I mean, heaven forbid we lose a pre-season match.
Agreed.
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Lord Mcgrath said we should back him.
That's good enough for me.
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Im prepared to give the guy a chance. Yes, he played dull football at the sty, he will have better players here. I support Aston Villa regardless of who the manager is. Seems some people want the guy to fail already
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He has played dull football wherever he has managed, leopards and spots.
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Only in football can you totally fuck your job up and get offered a better one, the only reason blues never sacked him is because they couldnt afford to pay him off and now they want compensation! joke.
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Only in football can you totally fuck your job up and get offered a better one, the only reason blues never sacked him is because they couldnt afford to pay him off and now they want compensation! joke.
So that's a no from you, is it?
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He did a good job for Scotland with the drivel he had. I didnt want him, but am willing to accept the decision and get on with supporting Aston Villa Football Club
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There needs to be another option on the list
"Don't have any choice but to put up with it "
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It is not a question of pressure being put upon him. He has put pressure on himself. Do you honestly think he believed he would be welcomed by the Villa fans? Any handicap he may have inhibiting his management skills has been inflicted on himself by agreeing to come to Villa.
But all that is academic. All of those I know and to whom I speak and are most appalled and shocked by this madness say the same thing. We wanted better for our club. Whichever way you cut it Alex McLeish is a poor manager with a bad record. To dredge up approval of his abilities from the likes of Dion Dublin, Stanley Collymore and Dennis Mortimer is like asking Mervyn King his opinion of Fred The Shred Goodwin. He is a banker being asked his opinion in public what he thinks of another banker. Of course he will say good chap, first class Oxbridge degree, worked on Wall St, written excellent articles for the Financial Times. Of course in public the likes of Dublin and Collymore will big up McLeish they have their careers as pundits to think about.
I want only one thing for the club which has been part of my life for so long. I want the best. McLeish was probably the worst manager in the Premiership and certainly played the worst football.
The probability is that I am too old to hope to see us win the FA Cup again, Champions League is totally out of the question probably for ever but I renewed my season ticket today for one reason only, I want to see every match I can between now and when McLeish is shown the door. I don't want to watch it on TV and have Dublin and Collymore telling what to do and what to think. I don't want members of my family returning from matches and telling me about Villa games. I want to see this ghastly saga unfold at first hand.
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Most pointless poll evoh. Doesn't matter how you voted, it will turn nasty the first bad result. Get to christmas and we're dragging along the bottom all hell will break loose
It's just a shame greg that there are people who will be thinking the same way as you. It really doesn't have to be that way after 1 bad result. Good to see you are preparing yourself accordingly.
Early days, TV. I was sitting here thinking AM could surprise us and actually turn things around. I have always thought he was a decent fella but having just seen a few clips of interviews with him, I think he will be lucky to last the pre season friendlies.
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Brian, Hold on to your seat
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look on the bright side at least there's no potential banana skin match against the Blose!
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Actually oldtimer, the one thing which just might get McLeish a chink of light under the shithouse door is a game against the knuckledraggers.
It would give him the chance to demonstrate his loyalties, however insincere.
I don't think West Midlands finest could control the mutants if McLeish gave them the same two finger salute Redknapp gave us.
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thing is hilts, the pressure is being created by us. The very people who should be supporting him as opposed to making his job more difficult. Now that he's here we should be doing everything we can to ensure he is as successful as possible. Unfortunately, there is going to be a section of fans who won't give him a chance, and will be on his case at the very earliest opportunity. I mean, heaven forbid we lose a pre-season match.
The pressure has been created by appointing a manager that was always going to be hugely unpopular. It's a situation that Lerner must have realised and McLeish definitely knew before he decided to take the job.
McLeish, when MON left, is reported as saying he wouldn't consider crossing the city because it would cause too many problems. Of course he was then a manager of a Premier League team and wasn't about to have his wages halved at the end of the month due to relegation.
You can't expect supporters who feel so strongly against it to suddenly start chanting his name but it doesn't mean they are not going to support the team.
If we are winning McLeish will slowly be accepted but you're right his 'honeymoon' period will be almost non existant. However Lerner and McLeish made the bed and they must lie in it . . . . . . . . http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/C4L31QCrNbgfOPf9
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In answer to the original question, why wouldn't you?
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Im giving him every chance.
Furthermore, I will back him in raiding Small Heath to get Ben Foster and Scott Dann for us. We could offer to send a Villa XI over for a pre season game as part of any transfer deal.
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look on the bright side at least there's no potential banana skin match against the Blose!
In the circumstances every match will be a banana skin!
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Beye as a makeweight for Dann? I could see a line up including Davies, Ridgwell and Beye in their back 4. Nice.
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I think we will have a idea of how things will pan out come the 1st September when we know who has joined the squad and who has left and how we set up and approach the games formation and tactics wise. We know the squad needs adding to and who McLeish gets in and lets go will go towards answering a few questions.
Of course we need to back him but his style of football is not going to be pretty to watch. If it gets us results then great but I just can't see it. Of course I will support the team - the season tickets have been renewed but I am not holding out for much. Unless he has a great summer transfer window.
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YES
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He wasn't on my long list never mind the short list for who I wanted to take over but he's here so time to back him; simples.
And those that are condemning 'his style of football' shall we not wait until he has actually a) picked a team and b) they have played a game before we completely write him and his style of football off?
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YES
My answer to the question by the way!
Apparently he's "chomping at the bit" to get started (Pat wanky Murphy) so it will be interesting to see what his priorities are and who he brings in. If it's not better than "safe" or typical McLeish the sceptics (and I think that's an awful lot of us!) are gonna grow more sceptical, cynical and pissed off and want him gone.
BUT, he's now our boss, we need to be positive and back our team.
UTV!
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If he achieves any measure of success - it will wind up Small Heath even more - so let's hope we can look forward to a positive season.
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**Waves arms in the air, bursts into song** "All we are saying, is give McLeish a chance" **has a sit down again**
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Well now that it's all done and dusted he has my 100% support.
He is our manager and we have to get our asses into gear, replace those who have left with better players and improve the squad . 1 or 2 particular Bluenoses would be accepted now that we have left one of them into our camp ( Foster, Dann ).
It will be interesting to see who are his transfer targets are . Other than the above named no other bluenoses need apply.
Best of luck Alec.
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Really interested to see how much money he is given, reckon Lerner will have no option but to back him big time financially
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Anger over we have no choice but to support him. The first three games will make or break him though as on paper we would want to win all 3. do that and he's up and running and will be given a bit of leeway. Even a draw and two wins. One win or less and there will be a few grumbles emanating from the four corners of Villa Park. No wins and there's trouble - three defeats and he's a gonner.
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Actually oldtimer, the one thing which just might get McLeish a chink of light under the shithouse door is a game against the knuckledraggers.
It would give him the chance to demonstrate his loyalties, however insincere.
I don't think West Midlands finest could control the mutants if McLeish gave them the same two finger salute Redknapp gave us.
I thought AM gave them the two finger salute last Sunday. I've been winding up Noses for years by telling them every one of their players dream of playing for Villa. I'd never bothered to include the managers but the same principle obviously applies.
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I honestly don't think there will be much difference between the way his side play and the way MON's Villa team did. I also think we'll get similar league positions and cup placings (a final here, a semi there) to MON. Basically, he'll set us up how MON did. Which worked up to a certain point. The questions is, can he take us on that bit further, which is a big ask consdiering we don't have the money that other clubs do.
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
Given the purile rantings of some on here prior to AM's appointment, I can't see how this qualifies as a 'stupid question'. As you rightly point out, anyone with any kind of common sense will give him a chance. Stupid question? not at all.
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
Given the purile rantings of some on here prior to AM's appointment, I can't see how this qualifies as a 'stupid question'. As you rightly point out, anyone with any kind of common sense will give him a chance. Stupid question? not at all.
hope you've been well Rog.
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Brian, Hold on to your seat
Are you Seattle Villain in disguise...?
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
Given the purile rantings of some on here prior to AM's appointment, I can't see how this qualifies as a 'stupid question'. As you rightly point out, anyone with any kind of common sense will give him a chance. Stupid question? not at all.
hope you've been well Rog.
Cheers, TV, not bad matey. Work sucks (no change there then). Hope life's treating you well and often.
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
Given the purile rantings of some on here prior to AM's appointment, I can't see how this qualifies as a 'stupid question'. As you rightly point out, anyone with any kind of common sense will give him a chance. Stupid question? not at all.
hope you've been well Rog.
Cheers, TV, not bad matey. Work sucks (no change there then). Hope life's treating you well and often.
Thanks Rog, and the same to you. Coming on here means I'm using the real world for sanity if you can believe that. Work won't change mate, just keeps piling up. Let's hope after all this the rest of the summer gives us something to be cheerful about.
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What a stupid question. Anyone with any kind of common sense would give him a chance!
Given the purile rantings of some on here prior to AM's appointment, I can't see how this qualifies as a 'stupid question'. As you rightly point out, anyone with any kind of common sense will give him a chance. Stupid question? not at all.
hope you've been well Rog.
Cheers, TV, not bad matey. Work sucks (no change there then). Hope life's treating you well and often.
Thanks Rog, and the same to you. Coming on here means I'm using the real world for sanity if you can believe that. Work won't change mate, just keeps piling up. Let's hope after all this the rest of the summer gives us something to be cheerful about.
Hallelujah to that, mate!
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thing is hilts, the pressure is being created by us. The very people who should be supporting him as opposed to making his job more difficult. Now that he's here we should be doing everything we can to ensure he is as successful as possible. Unfortunately, there is going to be a section of fans who won't give him a chance, and will be on his case at the very earliest opportunity. I mean, heaven forbid we lose a pre-season match.
Not entirely. The pressure on him is also as a result of Lerner inexplicably nailing his colours to the mast of a demonstrably inferior candidate. I doubt whether we'll ever get to the bottom of why Lerner suddenly and irrevocably decided McLeish, with his at best mediocre record in the PL, was the man to take Villa forward. I'll support the team of course but I can't pretend to be happy with the appointment of McLeish and I can't pretend that I'm optimistic about how things will pan out. I truly hope they don't but if things do start to go wrong, especially if they go wrong quickly, I'll quite rightly be furious because it could so easily have been avoided.
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thing is hilts, the pressure is being created by us. The very people who should be supporting him as opposed to making his job more difficult. Now that he's here we should be doing everything we can to ensure he is as successful as possible. Unfortunately, there is going to be a section of fans who won't give him a chance, and will be on his case at the very earliest opportunity. I mean, heaven forbid we lose a pre-season match.
Not entirely. The pressure on him is also as a result of Lerner inexplicably nailing his colours to the mast of a demonstrably inferior candidate. I doubt whether we'll ever get to the bottom of why Lerner suddenly and irrevocably decided McLeish, with his at best mediocre record in the PL, was the man to take Villa forward. I'll support the team of course but I can't pretend to be happy with the appointment of McLeish and I can't pretend that I'm optimistic about how things will pan out. I truly hope they don't but if things do start to go wrong, especially if they go wrong quickly, I'll quite rightly be furious because it could so easily have been avoided.
fair enough. I think Lerner having made this decision will also support him more than most people think. In many ways that will be the first step in justifying the appointment. My hope is that fans give him enough time to put his stamp on the team. If we're in the shitter by November/December he's going to get a lot of deserved stick. I think we need to see signs of the future early on, and for it to go from there. Inevitably the litmus test will be when we hit a sticky patch; every team does. How does he react, and how do the fans react? It will be interesting. I just don't think he should be held to any higher standard than if we had hired a more acceptable candidate.
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I just don't think he should be held to any higher standard than if we had hired a more acceptable candidate.
Quite right but that cuts both ways. Neither should McLeish be held to lower standards because better candidates weren't appointed. Lerner has decided McLeish is the man to take Villa forward, and has been unusually vociferous in saying that; so that's what McLeish has to do. He's either good enough to do that or he is not.
I can't for the life of me understand why Lerner believes he is but he's here now so we'll soon find out.
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This thread should be viewed again in 12 months time. Either 263 people know something the rest of us don't from his record or it will go down as the biggest case of mass delusion ever.
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Gabby has his say on the matter:
Aston Villa: Gabby Agbonlahor urges Villa fans to respect McLeish for having courage to cross city
By Mat Kendrick
Jun 17 2011
BOYHOOD Villa fan Gabby Agbonlahor has urged the unconvinced Villa Park faithful to respect Alex McLeish for having the courage to cross the Second City divide.
Agbonlahor also believes McLeish can get the claret and blues playing attacking football after admitting his defensive style at Blues is not 'Villa's way'.
He knows all about the intense rivalry between the Birmingham neighbours after being the scourge of McLeish’s Blues team during derbies between the clubs.
But the Brummie striker has advised Villa’s fans to throw their support behind McLeish and “get on with it” following yesterday’s confirmation of his appointment.
McLeish has signed a three-year deal, rumoured to be worth £6 million, to complete the most dramatic and controversial managerial switch in West Midlands football history.
Agbonlahor, Villa’s current longest serving player having made his debut in March 2006, is immersed in claret blue after coming through the Bodymoor Heath academy ranks.
The 24-year-old forward has been public enemy No1 with Blues fans after scoring in Big Eck’s 5-1 first derby defeat at Villa Park in April 2008 and grabbed the winner at St Andrew’s in his next in September 2009.
So he impressed with the bravery his new manager is displaying in succeeding Gerard Houllier at Villa just five days after sensationally walking out on bitter rivals Blues.
“To those Villa fans who don’t seem to be happy with his appointment, my message is simply to give him a chance and see what he can do,” said Agbonlahor. “He’ll do a good job for the club.
“For him to take on this challenge shows he has the belief that he can do a job here at Villa.
“It’s a move that only a man with a lot of courage and self-belief would make and people have to respect that.
“The chairman has made his decision now and it’s up to everyone associated with Aston Villa Football Club to just get on with it.
“This is a new challenge and a new start and Alex McLeish coming here is a good thing because he is a good manager.”
Agbonlahor believes Villa fans should judge McLeish on his record north of the border rather than dwelling on his three-and-a-half years spent at their bitter rivals Blues.
And the Bodymoor Heath academy graduate reckons Eck will be able to play a more entertaining brand of football with the players he has inherited at Villa.
Agbonlahor suggested the 52-year-old Scot would adapt his philosophy with the claret and blues because his cautious style of play at St Andrew’s is not ‘Villa’s way’.
After his 2010-11 campaign was disrupted by illness, injury, patchy form and being played out of position, the England strike hopeful predicts ‘exciting times’ under the club’s new boss.
“Look at his record as manager of Rangers and Scotland, he’s always done well,” added Agbonlahor, Villa’s current longest-serving player.
“At Birmingham his team had to play a certain way. Some Villa supporters seem to be worried about that kind of style because it’s not Villa’s way.
“But with the talented group of attacking players he’ll have at his disposal here, it will be a lot different and I’m sure that’s another reason why he’s taking this challenge.
“He will have a really good group of players to work with here. It’s a strong squad, and I see exciting times ahead, I really do.
“We’ve got a tough game to start the season with against Fulham away and everyone at the club needs to give the manager their full backing.
“I have no doubt that once they give him a chance they’ll see he can do a good job as Aston Villa manager.”
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This thread should be viewed again in 12 months time. Either 263 people know something the rest of us don't from his record or it will go down as the biggest case of mass delusion ever.
why? just because it differs from your standpoint. People want to see the club do well so are willing to give him a chance. So that makes the majority delusional in your eyes, but you remain the bastion of sanity?
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This thread should be viewed again in 12 months time. Either 263 people know something the rest of us don't from his record or it will go down as the biggest case of mass delusion ever.
The key phrase is "give him a chance."
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"Agbonlahor also believes McLeish can get the claret and blues playing attacking football after admitting his defensive style at Blues is not Villa's way."
I'll believe it when I see it.
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Yeah. Cmon. Villa have had 3 promising managers in 30 years. Saunders, Atkinson, O'Neill. And the last two were a bit crap. McLeish will be more hyped than any to get wins. It is all about signings & use of youngsters now.
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I've stayed off the main forum for most of the week due to the hysterical rantings against the board and new manager. I was as suprised as everyone else at the choice (considering the other names we were linked with) but he's in post now so it doesn't mean a jot to rant against him. We now have 2 choices.
1. If you are that disgusted at the appointment the only way to show it is not go to games.
2. Put all the animosity aside and get behind the team and see if Randy's gamble pays off. We saw divisions in the club last season and where did that get us.
I am prepared to give McLeish a chance and see how it pans out and hope for the best.
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the thing is what do you class as a chance? I'll give him a chance which is roughly a season if we're not bottom by the new year - the same i gave Houllier I reckon a lot of those voters won't give him that. A better question to have asked is "Do you think if he'll be a success"?
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This thread should be viewed again in 12 months time. Either 263 people know something the rest of us don't from his record or it will go down as the biggest case of mass delusion ever.
The key phrase is "give him a chance."
Gregnash? Never.
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This thread should be viewed again in 12 months time. Either 263 people know something the rest of us don't from his record or it will go down as the biggest case of mass delusion ever.
The key phrase is "give him a chance."
Gregnash? Never.
well i gave houllier more of a chance than most people and i bet there was a similar thread full of the same platitudes from people who conveniently forgot about their backing 5 months later.
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Eh? I think you missed my (poor) joke.
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Most saine Villa fans want him to succeed. To his credit, despite managing the other lot he never showed disrespect to The Villa.
His failings at Blose was that he tried to compete in both cups with a thin squad and got found out. A lot of other managers of small clubs throw the cups to ensure survival. Our manager threw the FA Cup and lets face it if we had of beaten them in the QF, who knows what might have happened to us. My concern is more about what the board are thinking.
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Why would McLeish change his style to free flowing football anymore than Martinez would come here and start playing the long ball game? furthermore why would the board hire a bloke who plays one way expecting him to play in a completely different style?
We are going to be playing in the style of his SHA teams and I can fully understand why we have people feeling more than a bit aprehensive about it.
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Why would McLeish change his style to free flowing football anymore than Martinez would come here and start playing the long ball game? furthermore why would the board hire a bloke who plays one way expecting him to play in a completely different style?
We are going to be playing in the style of his SHA teams and I can fully understand why we have people feeling more than a bit aprehensive about it.
Did his Rangers side play the same way as the Blues?
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Lerner has decided McLeish is the man to take Villa forward, and has been unusually vociferous in saying that
Has he, what's he said?
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If actions speak louder than words he hasn't half been vociferous.
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I'll give him a chance. Although I'm swayed by some of the crap bits on his CV, I'm desperately hoping that the good bits are a truer reflection of his abilities.
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When does he start work?
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Why would McLeish change his style to free flowing football anymore than Martinez would come here and start playing the long ball game? furthermore why would the board hire a bloke who plays one way expecting him to play in a completely different style?
We are going to be playing in the style of his SHA teams and I can fully understand why we have people feeling more than a bit aprehensive about it.
Did his Rangers side play the same way as the Blues?
From memory they were not disimilar
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Why would McLeish change his style to free flowing football anymore than Martinez would come here and start playing the long ball game? furthermore why would the board hire a bloke who plays one way expecting him to play in a completely different style?
We are going to be playing in the style of his SHA teams and I can fully understand why we have people feeling more than a bit aprehensive about it.
Did his Rangers side play the same way as the Blues?
From memory they were not disimilar
Like Blues but with more of the ball. So essentially there was no point in having a midfield, the ball would just go sailing over their heads for most of the game.
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I suspect that you're both guessing and like me don't really know. Time will tell as to whether the way Blues paid was down to pragmatism or dogma.
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This thread should be viewed again in 12 months time. Either 263 people know something the rest of us don't from his record or it will go down as the biggest case of mass delusion ever.
The key phrase is "give him a chance."
I'm sure the one's who get off their arse and go to the games will Dave.
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I suspect that you're both guessing and like me don't really know. Time will tell as to whether the way Blues paid was down to pragmatism or dogma.
Why must I be guessing? Because someone following something you don't is such an unfathomable thought? I've followed Scottish football pretty closely for years and the Alex McLeish era at Rangers produced some of the ugliest football either of the Old Firm have ever produced, even by the dwindling standards of the last decade.
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As I've said before, Graham Taylor came to us with a reputation for being a long-ball merchant but we rarely saw evidence of that at Villa Park. I hope Eck can change too. I certainly won't assume we are the new Stoke before watching us play a few times.
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I wonder how many of the 'fans' who voted for the first option actually attend games on a regular basis...
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I suspect that you're both guessing and like me don't really know. Time will tell as to whether the way Blues paid was down to pragmatism or dogma.
Why must I be guessing? Because someone following something you don't is such an unfathomable thought? I've followed Scottish football pretty closely for years and the Alex McLeish era at Rangers produced some of the ugliest football either of the Old Firm have ever produced, even by the dwindling standards of the last decade.
How did you manage to watch it? It's only relatively recently that they've shown games down here and even then it is usually only the Old Firm matches.
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I suspect that you're both guessing and like me don't really know. Time will tell as to whether the way Blues paid was down to pragmatism or dogma.
Why must I be guessing? Because someone following something you don't is such an unfathomable thought? I've followed Scottish football pretty closely for years and the Alex McLeish era at Rangers produced some of the ugliest football either of the Old Firm have ever produced, even by the dwindling standards of the last decade.
How did you manage to watch it? It's only relatively recently that they've shown games down here and even then it is usually only the Old Firm matches.
I live in Edinburgh.
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I suspect that you're both guessing and like me don't really know. Time will tell as to whether the way Blues paid was down to pragmatism or dogma.
Why must I be guessing? Because someone following something you don't is such an unfathomable thought? I've followed Scottish football pretty closely for years and the Alex McLeish era at Rangers produced some of the ugliest football either of the Old Firm have ever produced, even by the dwindling standards of the last decade.
How did you manage to watch it? It's only relatively recently that they've shown games down here and even then it is usually only the Old Firm matches.
I live in Edinburgh.
Yes, that would explain it!
I apologise for my doubts.
As I've said elsewhere time will tell whether that style of play is down to dogma or pragmatism. I hope it's the latter.
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Wasn't that why so many Villa fans turned against Martin O'Neill, because of the negative football? Now we have an even greater exponant of the long ball game. We may as well bring Jack Charlton in all together.
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BDE why do you put 'fans' that way in your comment? Because we have minds of our own and we don't want a manager we perceive as rubbish?
Norwich will be my shortest journey to see Villa play next season and my average distance to see the team I love play is 200-400 miles round trip. I expect to attend 30 Villa games next season.
I do not want Alex McLeish as the manager of Aston Villa Football Club. The fact that I have to endure it is bad enough without being described as a 'fan'.
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Has he, what's he said?
Seriously? You haven't read the club's statement? Faulkner may have been the mouthpiece but do you actually believe Lerner's view is any different to this? Or maybe you think Faulkner is using the Royal 'we'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13770519.stm
"We believe we have appointed the right man for the job. Unquestionably, Alex meets the criteria we set out at the beginning of our search which was based on proven Premier League experience, leadership, a hard-working ethic and, most importantly, a shared vision for Aston Villa. Alex is someone with whom we will work closely and work well together. With our strong squad combining the necessary virtues of experience and the exciting potential of our young players, our objective is to compete as strongly as we possibly can. Alex's vast experience and proven abilities demonstrate clearly that he is a strong leader and an ambitious man and we are looking forward very much to the exciting new season about to start."
You seem to be on a one-man mission to bury your head in the sand. On the one hand you're disputing the claim that McLeish's teams play terrible football, and on the other you appear to be challenging the claim that Lerner thinks McLeish is the man to take us forward.
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BDE why do you put 'fans' that way in your comment? Because we have minds of our own and we don't want a manager we perceive as rubbish?
Norwich will be my shortest journey to see Villa play next season and my average distance to see the team I love play is 200-400 miles round trip. I expect to attend 30 Villa games next season.
I do not want Alex McLeish as the manager of Aston Villa Football Club. The fact that I have to endure it is bad enough without being described as a 'fan'.
You've always come across as Villa through and through, someone who would back Villa signings regardless of whether you agreed with them or not. That is a fundamental part of being a fan. You support your club. We all think we can pick better players or managers but we have to accept the owner has the final say. For any fan to honestly say they won't give our new manager a chance when he's just signed a three year contract is beyond my comprehension and I'd be particularly surprised if you voted for that option.
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Has he, what's he said?
Seriously? You haven't read the club's statement? Faulkner may have been the mouthpiece but do you actually believe Lerner's view is any different to this? Or maybe you think Lerner is using the Royal 'we'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13770519.stm
"We believe we have appointed the right man for the job. Unquestionably, Alex meets the criteria we set out at the beginning of our search which was based on proven Premier League experience, leadership, a hard-working ethic and, most importantly, a shared vision for Aston Villa. Alex is someone with whom we will work closely and work well together. With our strong squad combining the necessary virtues of experience and the exciting potential of our young players, our objective is to compete as strongly as we possibly can. Alex's vast experience and proven abilities demonstrate clearly that he is a strong leader and an ambitious man and we are looking forward very much to the exciting new season about to start."
You seem to be on a one-man mission to bury your head in the sand. On the one hand you're disputing the claim that McLeish's teams play terrible football, and on the other you appear to be challenging the claim that Lerner thinks McLeish is the man to take us forward.
Don't bring up the statement. I got called weird for having read it properly
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The board see this as a rational appointment, while more than a few fans (me included) look at it as a gamble. How much of a chance can you honestly say you give him? We really need the good start, don't we?
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What a fkin stupid poll.
He's the manager of Aston Villa, and as such gets everyones 100% backing (surely FFS)
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Has he, what's he said?
Seriously? You haven't read the club's statement? Faulkner may have been the mouthpiece but do you actually believe Lerner's view is any different to this? Or maybe you think Faulkner is using the Royal 'we'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13770519.stm
"We believe we have appointed the right man for the job. Unquestionably, Alex meets the criteria we set out at the beginning of our search which was based on proven Premier League experience, leadership, a hard-working ethic and, most importantly, a shared vision for Aston Villa. Alex is someone with whom we will work closely and work well together. With our strong squad combining the necessary virtues of experience and the exciting potential of our young players, our objective is to compete as strongly as we possibly can. Alex's vast experience and proven abilities demonstrate clearly that he is a strong leader and an ambitious man and we are looking forward very much to the exciting new season about to start."
You seem to be on a one-man mission to bury your head in the sand. On the one hand you're disputing the claim that McLeish's teams play terrible football, and on the other you appear to be challenging the claim that Lerner thinks McLeish is the man to take us forward.
So you made it up.
You described Lerner as being unusually vociferous when in fact we've just had what we always get, board members backing their manger but no word from the owner. It's standard practice for Villa.
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The board see this as a rational appointment, while more than a few fans (me included) look at it as a gamble. How much of a chance can you honestly say you give him? We really need the good start, don't we?
I agree it's a gamble. Lots of appointments/signings are to a certain extent, but what is to be gained by not giving the man a chance?
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I will back Alex if somebody makes a ginger dot for the match threads.
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I would rather achieve something with him than have the doubters proved right.
To start the season off in a negative frame of mind is a daft and seeing as there's very little anyone of us can do about it, we MUST get behind the team and AMc. Like it or not, he is one small part of a much bigger picture that is Aston Villa.
He's here, they're still our team - lets not act like children and get united.
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Why is how he played five years ago, in a two horse race, in a weaker league, a better indicator than how he played in our league, with financial backing, a few weeks ago?
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You described Lerner as being unusually vociferous when in fact we've just had what we always get, board members backing their manger but no word from the owner. It's standard practice for Villa.
So you believe Randy's view is different from the board members?
That statement is unusual in that it continually stresses how much the club believe they have made the right decision, rather than the customary recitation of the new man's accomplishments. It reads to me like a defence of the decision, rather than the heralding of a new era.
I think the weirdest phrase is "proven Premier League experience". Either you have Premier League experience or you don't; "proven" doesn't come into it.
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I think it's just a bit of PR bumf for the website but people with an axe to grind will read into it what they want.
To my mind giving him a chance means having an open mind, not paying lip service to it while all the time using it as an opportunity to suggest you know best.
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Yeah they probably just got a work experience lad to knock up that statement.
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I am giving him a chance. I was shocked, outraged and then given days to accept and finally get behind the appointment.
I cannot shake off the nagging feeling that he may just prove to do really well at B6. We’re all aware of his perceived limitations through his time at Small Heath in particular; the football equivalent of trench warfare and two relegations.
But he also won them a trophy, something to this day I cannot quite fathom how. I also think he’s got more motivation than any new manager stepping into a new job this season, as his task of winning the fans onside is monumental to start with. But yet he’s done it anyway. Alright the £2 million softens the blow, but he didn’t have to take the job. He could have picked up a million elsewhere and I agree with Gabby. McLeish has shown some large cojnes. It suggests it’s more than just a job on the road to something “bigger” as we’ve had in the past few bosses. Cynics will be saying this is as big as it will get and he shouldn’t have got it anyway. And that may turn out to be the case.
But thenI disagree with the media’s view of the apparent nightmarish and thoroughly thankless task it is to pick up the pieces at Villa Park. I don’t think there’s a lot wrong with us, at last not with Darren Bent up top. Sort out the defence, which was riddled with fundamental errors last season, with soft goal after soft goal conceded would be step one. Keep the supply lines open for Darren with a canny replacement for Young and a bit more guile in the middle is step two. Adam has been rumoured, he may be able to get inside Irelands head, either way, we know what needs to be done.
That’s all it is. Easy peasy. In theory at least. That little précis of squad issues would of course been the same job for any new manager, but I’m getting an intangible vibe that I cannot quite explain that McLiesh might just get it, which is why I am giving him my backing.
And no, I haven't stolen Mr Smith's log in.
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It was a ludicrous appointment two days ago and I'll hold that view until McLeish proves otherwise.
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It was a ludicrous appointment two days ago and I'll hold that view until McLeish proves otherwise.
I can understand why you feel that way but it will take at least a season to "prove" it.
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I think it's just a bit of PR bumf for the website but people with an axe to grind will read into it what they want.
To my mind giving him a chance means having an open mind, not paying lip service to it while all the time using it as an opportunity to suggest you know best.
There you go again, unable to tell the difference between someone holding an opposing view and someone claiming to "know best". You have no more an open mind than I do - you're just being good old contrarian Chris.
Given who else was available it was a poor appointment. It would have been underwhelming under any circumstances but given the other candidates it's a shocker. Just because he's now Villa manager doesn't mean there are grounds to alter my previous opinion of him which is that he is a mediocre manager with a poor PL record who plays terrible football. The board have taken a massive gamble and are seeking to justify it wherever they can.
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No, I am being open minded but I accept that you aren't able to recognise it.
He's not the man I wanted but I'm prepared to see how he performs in this job.
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I think it's just a bit of PR bumf for the website but people with an axe to grind will read into it what they want.
To my mind giving him a chance means having an open mind, not paying lip service to it while all the time using it as an opportunity to suggest you know best.
There you go again, unable to tell the difference between someone holding an opposing view and someone claiming to "know best". You have no more an open mind than I do - you're just being good old contrarian Chris.
Given who else was available it was a poor appointment. It would have been underwhelming under any circumstances but given the other candidates it's a shocker. Just because he's now Villa manager doesn't mean there are grounds to alter my previous opinion of him which is that he is a mediocre manager with a poor PL record who plays terrible football. The board have taken a massive gamble and are seeking to justify it wherever they can.
Give over will you.
"Lerner has decided McLeish is the man to take Villa forward, and has been unusually vociferous in saying that;"
Pointing to Faulkner's comments in a press release doesn't make the assertion that Lerner has been unusually vociferous correct. Why not accept Chris's point whilst expressing what you meant more clearly?
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He's not the man I wanted but I'm prepared to see how he performs in this job.
And that should be the bottom line for us all. McLeish is our manager now. We all have to accept it, unite and move forward.
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Pointing to Faulkner's comments in a press release doesn't make the assertion that Lerner has been unusually vociferous correct.
Yes, how do we know this isn't what really happened:
PF: Sorry, Randy. We have to appoint him. Nobody else wants to come.
RL: F*ck this, I'm going to Boca.
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Isn't this poll rather pointless and just a way to find people to claim some moral high ground over?
Regardless of the angry shouty stuff right now, unless we are planning to rock up to Villa Park at the start of the season hoping we are going go lose (which basically would be the realm of the mentally disturbed), we are all going to give him a chance, at the most simple of levels because, like it or not, he IS our manager so we have no choice in the matter.
Almost everyone on this site has found this to be a somewhat bewildering appointment but it's safe to say we'd all like him to prove us very wrong, I'd have thought that went without saying.
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No, I am being open minded but I accept that you aren't able to recognise it.
He's not the man I wanted but I'm prepared to see how he performs in this job.
No, you're arguing the toss for its own sake, as you normally do.
The second part shows that for all your bluster and contrariness, our positions are actually the same. I want him to succeed and I hope he does, but I just don't think he will because his PL record to date shows his method has been largely ineffective.
McLeish isn't the man that, as far as I can tell, any of us wanted. That his record was seemingly enough to convince the board that, of all the available candidates, he is the man to take us forward is - to say the least - a very odd decision. Which is why the board are trying to convince us (and probably themselves) that they've done the right thing.
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Pointing to Faulkner's comments in a press release doesn't make the assertion that Lerner has been unusually vociferous correct. Why not accept Chris's point whilst expressing what you meant more clearly?
Because I don't think Chris is right. That, for me, is not so much a normal press release as a justification. And there is absolutely no reason to believe Lerner doesn't share the views expressed in it. Unless you're aware of some rift between Lerner and the board.
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Isn't this poll rather pointless and just a way to find people to claim some moral high ground over?
Spot on. Prior to him coming here, pretty much everyone thought he was, at best, a mediocre manager. Now he's here, the usual suspects are falling over themselves to reposition and say "No, I have a more open mind than you!" or "No, I'm the one who is prepared to give him the biggest chance!"
It happens every time. Its predictability is matched only by its inanity.
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Alex McLeish is manager of Aston Villa. No more rumours, speculation etc. I'm glad it's out the way and we can get back to preparing for football as opposed to the distraction of searching for a new manager. Now that reality will sink in, and you start to accept he is our manager, what will your position be?
I'm disappointed at the selection, but I will give him a chance to build something. For me he will start with a clean slate. I hope all of his experiences will make him a better manager. I'll be interested to see who he has on his coahing staff, the players he brings in, lets go, gives second chances to, and kids he promotes. With better football players at his disposal, I want to see if he is capable of continuing the work of GH and having us play a better brand of football. I'm not going to go crazy after the first defeat.
Totally agree, anything less than 100% support and we`re just hurting ourselves. There is gonna be a lot of upheaval now, with Young, Downing, Friedel etc`leaving, and its not going to be easy. we simply have to give him chance.
I know many of you won't share this view and you are all entitled to whatever stand you take on this appointment. But he's one of us now, whether we like it or not. I'm going to hope he is a massive success as I have nothing personally against him. I don't want him sacked, because if he is, he has failed. I don't want Aston Villa to fail.
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It isn't that difficult to accept now that I've reduced my expectations. He has enough in this squad and the money he raises from sales to challenge for top 6 and should get top 8. I don't think you can expect him to get anywhere near a challenge for top 4.
I'm coming around to the idea that I might enjoy a relaxing, sociable season with my mates, without any heightened expectations or intense discussions. Time to sit back and relax, it's only football.
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Hilts, I thought you would perhaps prefer McLeish to Hughes or Moyes, given that you judge a manager on achievements?
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No, I am being open minded but I accept that you aren't able to recognise it.
He's not the man I wanted but I'm prepared to see how he performs in this job.
No, you're arguing the toss for its own sake...
Blah, blah, blah
What is your arrogance based on as I have seen absolutely nothing to justify it?
I genuinely didn't want him as manager but I am genuinely prepared to wait and see how he performs. How is that arguing the toss fit its own sake?
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My main concern is that he doesn't get us playing the same defensive gash that Blues specialised in.
Play in a style which suits the players we have, try to entertain us, and he will build himself a better platform to build on, even if results are mediocre.
What will make it more difficult for himself is if he plays that dour Small Heath style, and the results are poor.
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Yesterday I was still in the Maybe middle option. I sent an email to the club complaining about the way they handled the whole new Manager search and was in a bit of spoilt slightly childish mood about the whole thing. Today its sunk in and things move on and of course I will give him my support. I just renewed my season ticket and am suddenly looking forward to signings and football. It was a weird few weeks but I am glad its over and we can look forward to Fulham away in the (hopefully) sunshine.
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Hilts, I thought you would perhaps prefer McLeish to Hughes or Moyes, given that you judge a manager on achievements?
I've not been following this ongoing argument, so don't know what the gist of it is, but arent league placings also achievements?
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Pointing to Faulkner's comments in a press release doesn't make the assertion that Lerner has been unusually vociferous correct. Why not accept Chris's point whilst expressing what you meant more clearly?
Because I don't think Chris is right. That, for me, is not so much a normal press release as a justification. And there is absolutely no reason to believe Lerner doesn't share the views expressed in it. Unless you're aware of some rift between Lerner and the board.
The content of your opinion doesn't come into it, Lerner has not been unusually vociferous.
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Blah blah blah arrogance blah blah blah middle-class interloper blah blah blah you're not a manager what do you know blah blah blah think you know best blah blah blah black is white blah blah blah
I genuinely didn't want him as manager but I am genuinely prepared to wait and see how he performs. How is that arguing the toss fit its own sake?
Because it's the same position as the person you picked an argument with.
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Regardless of the angry shouty stuff right now, unless we are planning to rock up to Villa Park at the start of the season hoping we are going go lose (which basically would be the realm of the mentally disturbed), we are all going to give him a chance, at the most simple of levels because, like it or not, he IS our manager so we have no choice in the matter.
Almost everyone on this site has found this to be a somewhat bewildering appointment but it's safe to say we'd all like him to prove us very wrong, I'd have thought that went without saying.
Yup thats about the long and short of it, I personally was only gnawing at the bone as a few seemed to be expecting a complete volte face just because he'd now actually signed a bit of paper making him our manager.
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Pointing to Faulkner's comments in a press release doesn't make the assertion that Lerner has been unusually vociferous correct. Why not accept Chris's point whilst expressing what you meant more clearly?
Because I don't think Chris is right. That, for me, is not so much a normal press release as a justification. And there is absolutely no reason to believe Lerner doesn't share the views expressed in it. Unless you're aware of some rift between Lerner and the board.
Except that you were the one who brought Lerner into it by saying he had been unusually vociferous when he hasn't said a word. You were trying to make a case for ut being hugely significant when in reality it is the sort of stuff every chief exec makes with every appointment.
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The content of your opinion doesn't come into it, Lerner has not been unusually vociferous.
In my view he has.
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Except that you were the one who brought Lerner into it by saying he had been unusually vociferous when he hasn't said a word. You were trying to make a case for ut being hugely significant when in reality it is the sort of stuff every chief exec makes with every appointment.
I accept that you can't see it Chris but that statement smacks of justification. And you've not yet offered a reason why you think Lerner's view would be any different from what it contains.
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My main concern is that he doesn't get us playing the same defensive gash that Blues specialised in.
Play in a style which suits the players we have, try to entertain us, and he will build himself a better platform to build on, even if results are mediocre.
What will make it more difficult for himself is if he plays that dour Small Heath style, and the results are poor.
Agree with that but his remit here is going to be different to down the road so I'd hope that he will understand that being difficult to beat is only part of the job.
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Hilts, I thought you would perhaps prefer McLeish to Hughes or Moyes, given that you judge a manager on achievements?
Hmm. One League Cup set against two relegations and a highest finish of 9th. Nope, Hughes or Moyes are ahead of McLeish for me. Even Martinez has managed to avoid relegations.
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Is it though, Chris?
That's my nagging concern. That and whether he is capable of doing things a different way.
Let's see how it goes. I just hope that if it doesn't work out, it doesn't cost the club too much, in financial terms, but also in lots of other senses, too.
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Except that you were the one who brought Lerner into it by saying he had been unusually vociferous when he hasn't said a word. You were trying to make a case for ut being hugely significant when in reality it is the sort of stuff every chief exec makes with every appointment.
I accept that you can't see it Chris but that statement smacks of justification. And you've not yet offered a reason why you think Lerner's view would be any different from what it contains.
It's a press release for the new appointment and would have been similar whoever had got the job. There is absolutely no way to describe it as Lerner being unusually vociferous.
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I don't know about him being more vociferous with regards to press releases, but I think we are seeing a change of some sort in his approach to the club and fans in making this appointment.
What that change is exactly, I don't know, but something has changed for them to have spent five years painstakingly cultivating customer relations only to go and do something potentially so damaging that this time last week, every single one of us on here would have considered it utterly unthinkable.
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The content of your opinion doesn't come into it, Lerner has not been unusually vociferous.
In my view he has.
Fucking hell.
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It's a press release for the new appointment and would have been similar whoever had got the job. There is absolutely no way to describe it as Lerner being unusually vociferous.
I disagree. You'll see it eventually Chris; I know it generally takes you about two years to catch up.
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Fucking hell.
I can understand why the idea of someone taking a view and sticking to it shocks you.
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It's a press release for the new appointment and would have been similar whoever had got the job.
So when you read an official statement (whether from the government, your employer or Aston Villa) you just take it at face value and don't make any attempt to analyse the language and content to see how it fits their agenda?
Blissful ignorance sounds just about right.
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Is it though, Chris?
That's my nagging concern. That and whether he is capable of doing things a different way.
Let's see how it goes. I just hope that if it doesn't work out, it doesn't cost the club too much, in financial terms, but also in lots of other senses, too.
I think even if we accept the idea that Lerner has scaled back on his ambitions they are surely still going to be ahead of those at Small Heath.
Benitez adopted a similar stifling approach with Liverpool but because he had (much) better players achieved better results. I hope that isn't the way we go.
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Well i've just shelled out 400 quid for a season ticket so it's a yes from me.
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Fucking hell.
I can understand why the idea of someone taking a view and sticking to it shocks you.
It shocks me that someone can be so ignorant of the meaning of the phrase unusually vociferous.
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Yes.
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It's a press release for the new appointment and would have been similar whoever had got the job.
So when you read an official statement (whether from the government, your employer or Aston Villa) you just take it at face value and don't make any attempt to analyse the language and content to see how it fits their agenda?
Blissful ignorance sounds just about right.
Why don't you just fuck off with the personal insults.
From many years of reading the official website I have learnt to take it for what it is.
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It's a press release for the new appointment and would have been similar whoever had got the job.
So when you read an official statement (whether from the government, your employer or Aston Villa) you just take it at face value and don't make any attempt to analyse the language and content to see how it fits their agenda?
Blissful ignorance sounds just about right.
Why don't you just fuck off with the personal insults.
From many years of reading the official website I have learnt to take it for what it is.
Personal insult? Where? I asked you a question and alluded to what I presumed is a self deprecating comment under location in your profile.
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Shall we all calm down a bit?
I'll reopen this later when we're all a bit less fighty.