Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Fergal on June 15, 2011, 09:06:58 PM

Title: Randys Reaction
Post by: Fergal on June 15, 2011, 09:06:58 PM
Anyone think Randy could decide to walk after this?
I wouldn't blame him if he did but it would be the worst things that could happen to our club.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 15, 2011, 09:15:15 PM
I don't want him to walk, that would be bad but I'd like him to stop listening to terrible advice. In reality most managers would be given a chance by the fans, this is pretty much one of the few appointments that could cause such an adverse reaction from the fans.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 15, 2011, 09:17:01 PM
The Villa 'faithful' aren't going to be happy no matter who gets appointed, since the top polling candidates Ancelotti and Moyes wanted nothing to do with us, and the club wasn't content to give Benitez a blank cheque to buy whoever he wanted.

I don't believe this is the one appointment that would cause uproar. It's just a mighty good excuse.

Up the Villa.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 15, 2011, 09:19:12 PM
nope, and not when you've pumped as much coin into the club as he has. Also, on a number of fronts we're hardly doing ourselves any favours to potential buyers. If Randy put the club up for sale, a buyer might think, "is this how they act when I make a decision". Why would you put your millions on the line if your status as owner is question like it has been today?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: andrew08 on June 15, 2011, 09:23:21 PM
I don't think so. Not many of the 'faces' were at the protest. No H & V bigshots were there either. I know a few who go everywhere home and away incl the Hong Kong game coming up.Like the majority they'll renew ST's and carry on.
Most people I know think Randy is great, I'm sure he'll take no notice tbh.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on June 15, 2011, 09:27:33 PM
I hope Randy wont pay too much notice to a vociferous emotional minority.

Keep calm and carry on.

Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Risso on June 15, 2011, 09:35:42 PM
The Villa 'faithful' aren't going to be happy no matter who gets appointed, since the top polling candidates Ancelotti and Moyes wanted nothing to do with us, and the club wasn't content to give Benitez a blank cheque to buy whoever he wanted.

I don't believe this is the one appointment that would cause uproar. It's just a mighty good excuse.

Up the Villa.

Tosh, we've been just been linked with two managers who finished 3rd and 4th bottom, and we look like appointing the one who got his team relegated.  If Lerner wanted to take his ball home (which I doubt he'd be able to out, as our finances are a lot shit) then good riddance quite frankly. 
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 15, 2011, 09:36:47 PM
The Villa 'faithful' aren't going to be happy no matter who gets appointed, since the top polling candidates Ancelotti and Moyes wanted nothing to do with us, and the club wasn't content to give Benitez a blank cheque to buy whoever he wanted.

I don't believe this is the one appointment that would cause uproar. It's just a mighty good excuse.

Up the Villa.

Tosh, we've been just been linked with two managers who finished 3rd and 4th bottom, and we look like appointing the one who got his team relegated.  If Lerner wanted to take his ball home (which I doubt he'd be able to out, as our finances are a lot shit) then good riddance quite frankly. 

How the mighty have fallen.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Fergal on June 15, 2011, 09:40:13 PM
The Villa 'faithful' aren't going to be happy no matter who gets appointed, since the top polling candidates Ancelotti and Moyes wanted nothing to do with us, and the club wasn't content to give Benitez a blank cheque to buy whoever he wanted.

I don't believe this is the one appointment that would cause uproar. It's just a mighty good excuse.

Up the Villa.

Tosh, we've been just been linked with two managers who finished 3rd and 4th bottom, and we look like appointing the one who got his team relegated.  If Lerner wanted to take his ball home (which I doubt he'd be able to out, as our finances are a lot shit) then good riddance quite frankly. 
Bloody hell....
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: madirishvillain on June 15, 2011, 09:43:08 PM
i really couldnt care if eck came here with a birmingham fc tattoo on his face and on a tattoo on his arm saying that aston villa are s***e

the problem is and i cant understand how everyone is okay with this is

Eck has been relegated twice in four seasons


and still people are okay with him becoming our new manager
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Ads on June 15, 2011, 09:44:38 PM


Eck has been relegated twice in four seasons




Villa legend already.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on June 15, 2011, 09:49:27 PM
the problem is and i cant understand how everyone is okay with this is

Eck has been relegated twice in four seasons


and still people are okay with him becoming our new manager

The first one they were already deep in the shit when he arrived.
The second one was mainly because he had nobody who could find the net, we have Bent.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Des Little on June 15, 2011, 09:51:36 PM
Randy has been superb for us and his love for the club cannot be questioned.  That said, this decision is beyond comprehension - not only the Blues manager but a bloke who's clearly failed at it to boot.  If he thought it would be acepted without question or fuss he's way off beam.

Very worrying.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: PeterWithe on June 15, 2011, 09:51:48 PM
A few have said they will back him or any other Villa manager, I'm not sure I've read anyone who thinks appointing him is anything but a bad idea.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Dave on June 15, 2011, 09:58:57 PM
Anyone think Randy could decide to walk after this?
Walk where?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Pete3206 on June 15, 2011, 09:59:49 PM
Randy is his own man, that's for sure. I've no doubt that he wants what's best for Villa. Unfortunately, it looks like he's made a pig's ear of this one.

If it's McCleish, so be it. I don't like it, not one fucking bit. But, the board make the decisions, not the fans. If it works out, I'll tip my hat to the man.

Roll on next season.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: 5ft811st2 Durham on June 15, 2011, 10:01:51 PM
London, Manchester, and Liverpool are awash with successful, competative football clubs.

Unfortunatey we live in Birmingham a city that's managed one League Championship in 100 years.

Clearly it's down to Aston Villa to give the people of Birmingham something to shout about, but I think it's fairly clear now that with Randy Lerner as owner  we'll do no more than tread water.

 
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Somniloquism on June 15, 2011, 10:06:43 PM
the problem is and i cant understand how everyone is okay with this is

Eck has been relegated twice in four seasons


and still people are okay with him becoming our new manager

The first one they were already deep in the shit when he arrived.
The second one was mainly because he had nobody who could find the net, we have Bent.

For the first one he started in November and had January to bring in players of his choosing.

For the second, part of the problem with not finding the net was the fact he sent out his teams to not concede and hopefully snatch a goal. Even the last match of this season, he set out to defend for 90 mins, they managed to get a goal when needed and instead of pressing for the second when in the ascendency, sat back and played for the draw again.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: KevinGage on June 15, 2011, 10:07:19 PM
I wouldn't be distraught at the prospect of Lerner walking, and I couldn't imagine thinking that before the last few days.

True, we could get a lot worse. But we could get even better.
Man Citeh lost Shinawatra and gained Sheikh Mansour. Liverpool jettisoned Gillette and Hicks and gained the Fenway Sports Group.

The conditions that attracted RL in the first place are still  there and remain largely untapped; big fanbase, large catchment area, potential for growth et.c.  If he does nothing else, his work to date helped put us back into the spotlight between 2007-09 and two successive top 4 challenges probably helped to increase our profile in the UK and beyond.  All good things. Along with the Holte Hotel, the free coaches and all the rest of it.

Which makes this schoolboy error he seems about to commit even more exasperating. Fletch and a few others have mentioned that it's possibly part of a deliberate downgrading of expectations -maybe even with an exit strategy in mind.
If that's the case, I'd rather they just got on with it and sold up rather than endure a slow painful death and decline in profile due to Big Eck's dismal approach to football. 

Alternatively, he might be too easily persuaded by his advisors and he might actually believe this will be the appointment to put us back in the running.  No, I don't see it either. The hope would then be that if RL was still willing to have a go and compete after the shit hits the fan, these advisors will be forced to walk the plank around the  same time Big Eck invariably does (no doubt with a lucrative payoff in his skyrocket).
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Barca 2011 on June 15, 2011, 10:09:30 PM
The club survived 132 years without him, I'm sure
we will last just as long if he spits his dummy out and
heads off into the sunset.
In short he can accept we don't like what he seems about to do
or he can do one!!
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: TonyD on June 15, 2011, 10:10:57 PM
Good post Kev
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: l_mckay on June 15, 2011, 10:16:46 PM
cant see him walking,cant belive he is going to appoint such a crap manager,but hopefully he will prove me wrong!?!
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: TheSandman on June 15, 2011, 10:19:05 PM
If Lerner wanted to take his ball home (which I doubt he'd be able to out, as our finances are a lot shit) then good riddance quite frankly. 

Christ almighty. A bit much eh?

My thinking on this is as it has been for the last few years. He's a decent enough owner but if we could have an Arab sheikh or Russian Gas Gazillionaire then I'd be happy for him to go. The problem is we could get some kind of trial baloonist hairdresser or chicken farmer instead which could do the club a lot of damage.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: KevinGage on June 15, 2011, 10:19:58 PM
If he was losing interest or just wanted to piss us all off, surely it would be a lot easier to replace the Aston Villa signage above the North Stand with 'Get Fcked You Limey Pricks.'

Amounts to the same thing, but much cheaper than paying GH off and employing Big Eck.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 10:20:37 PM
If he decided to leave then so be it. All of his good work over the last few years will be completely undone by appointing McLeish anyway so what would it matter? Would we like an owner who obviously looks upon the 'fans' as a neccessary but unfortunate irritant which seems to be the case at the moment?

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him. McLeish for heaven's sake! What the HELL are you thinking Randy?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 10:22:45 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: MalcolmP on June 15, 2011, 10:25:02 PM
A few have said they will back him or any other Villa manager, I'm not sure I've read anyone who thinks appointing him is anything but a bad idea.

I do - he has won more trophies as a manager than our last 10 managers put together - year one Blues finished in their highest ever league position and year 2 won a trophy (One more than we have had for years!) -not bad with the resources available. We have an infinitely better structure on and off the pitch than blues and better finances - style of play is based upon players available - as stated in another post we have an out and out goalscorer who can get 20 goals a season - if he can improve our defence then top 6 is a strong possibility - MON was welcomed with open arms when he came and his trophy successes were in Scotlandand his style of play was no different to Mcleish. I for one will give him my support - I have been a ST holder for 43 years and I support ASTON VILLA whoever the players and whoever the manager. I will still be supporting ASTON VILLA long after McLeish has left as well.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 10:26:57 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 15, 2011, 10:32:15 PM
The Villa 'faithful' aren't going to be happy no matter who gets appointed, since the top polling candidates Ancelotti and Moyes wanted nothing to do with us, and the club wasn't content to give Benitez a blank cheque to buy whoever he wanted.

I don't believe this is the one appointment that would cause uproar. It's just a mighty good excuse.

Up the Villa.

Tosh, we've been just been linked with two managers who finished 3rd and 4th bottom, and we look like appointing the one who got his team relegated.  If Lerner wanted to take his ball home (which I doubt he'd be able to out, as our finances are a lot shit) then good riddance quite frankly. 
Bloody hell....

There's so many other business people out there, just lining up desperately wanting to pump "their" money into a football team to be told by miserable, selfish football fans how exactly they should spend it. And if he decides to make decisions from his perspective there's always the chance that they'll show up at the gates or at the training ground and vandalise it. I can only imagine how many blokes from the Middle East of Asia that have caught the events from today are ringing up Randy just itching to part with their cash to be a part of us.

Let alone how some people see Randy's fall from grace, we've done a bloody good job of falling from grace ourselves today as a fan base.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 10:32:44 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave shelley on June 15, 2011, 10:33:26 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?
[/quot

Fully agree Dave.  Some people on here should have been around when Normansell and Smith were on the board and running the ship onto the rocks.  1968 was a very significant year in the history of Aston Villa, they should take time out to check this period in the history books if they haven't already done so.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 10:38:32 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 10:42:20 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?
[/quot

Fully agree Dave.  Some people on here should have been around when Normansell and Smith were on the board and running the ship onto the rocks.  1968 was a very significant year in the history of Aston Villa, they should take time out to check this period in the history books if they haven't already done so.

I didn't realise the age of a poster came up when a comment was made.

Look, it's simple, if you think that Lerner is doing a great job by appointing McLeish then, go ahead, shout it from the rooftops, but don't think that you can criticize people who think this decision could be one of, if not THE worst decisions in the recent history of Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 10:46:02 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

We might, just might, also get someone like Yeung or the clowns at Blackburn. Randy has made one unpopular decision so far, it hasn't yet been proved right or wrong, but he's being told to go. What was your opinion of him when he was shelling out £24 million in January? 
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 10:48:39 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

We might, just might, also get someone like Yeung or the clowns at Blackburn. Randy has made one unpopular decision so far, it hasn't yet been proved right or wrong, but he's being told to go. What was your opinion of him when he was shelling out £24 million in January?

Only one? Don't make me laugh.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 15, 2011, 10:49:01 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

so exactly what does that look like? Let me guess,

1) He gets manager's to sign for us irrespective of who we are, how much money they want, and how much power they want? He also sends a voting form out to the fans so that we can all vote on it. And if the vote isn't at least a 95%-5% majority we'll all keep voting until it is. Said candidates will be asked to put their lives on hold.
2) He spends ridiculous amounts of money on players that we all agree are world class
3) He gives us a kit the we all agree is fantastic and we rarely if ever change it.
4) He keeps season ticket prices to the lowest in the division while still buying the world class players.

He could give us all of the above and people would still moan. The man isn't a bottomless pit. He's possibly going to make one questionable decision, yet there are calls for him to sell. I find the lack balance in that perspective from some people incredible to say the least.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 15, 2011, 10:50:26 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

We might, just might, also get someone like Yeung or the clowns at Blackburn. Randy has made one unpopular decision so far, it hasn't yet been proved right or wrong, but he's being told to go. What was your opinion of him when he was shelling out £24 million in January?

Only one? Don't make me laugh.

so who's a better current owner in the PL?

Cue inevitable Man City bollocks
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Vancouver on June 15, 2011, 10:52:04 PM
Great post. Of course he isn't going to walk. Not when you have invested so much of your money. And to think anything otherwise is just silly
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: madirishvillain on June 15, 2011, 10:52:34 PM
were/are the Cleveland brown fans not a bit pissed off with him?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 10:53:27 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

so exactly what does that look like? Let me guess,

1) He gets manager's to sign for us irrespective of who we are, how much money they want, and how much power they want? He also sends a voting form out to the fans so that we can all vote on it. And if the vote isn't at least a 95%-5% majority we'll all keep voting until it is. Said candidates will be asked to put their lives on hold.
2) He spends ridiculous amounts of money on players that we all agree are world class
3) He gives us a kit the we all agree is fantastic and we rarely if ever change it.
4) He keeps season ticket prices to the lowest in the division while still buying the world class players.

He could give us all of the above and people would still moan. The man isn't a bottomless pit. He's possibly going to make one questionable decision, yet there are calls for him to sell. I find the lack balance in that perspective from some people incredible to say the least.

And all of the above is totally outweighed by appointing a manager as poor and completely 'average' as McLeish. And, I'm sorry, but which of our current squad are World Class? Great players, sure, but World Class? C'mon ...
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 10:53:54 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

We might, just might, also get someone like Yeung or the clowns at Blackburn. Randy has made one unpopular decision so far, it hasn't yet been proved right or wrong, but he's being told to go. What was your opinion of him when he was shelling out £24 million in January?

Only one? Don't make me laugh.

How come we haven't heard you moaning before then?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 10:56:47 PM

so who's a better current owner in the PL?

Cue inevitable Man City bollocks

That would be the Manchester City we were so glad we weren't like becuse they were buying success.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 10:57:14 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

We might, just might, also get someone like Yeung or the clowns at Blackburn. Randy has made one unpopular decision so far, it hasn't yet been proved right or wrong, but he's being told to go. What was your opinion of him when he was shelling out £24 million in January?

Only one? Don't make me laugh.

How come we haven't heard you moaning before then?

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 15, 2011, 10:59:36 PM
Whilst accepting that we don't know everything that goes on behind scenes at Villa Park, I am struggling to come to terms with how in the space of a week or so Lerner has gone from seemingly making the decision who to appoint - or rather not to appoint - by Plebeian Council, to now totally ignoring the massive groundswell of popular opinion.  Both models as a decision making process are wrong.

However, having at first given the impression that he listens to the fans, he will now discover that we can be very unforgiving if we feel slighted.  Consequently, almost regardless of how the McLeish era pans out, I can't see how the relationship between owner and punter will ever be the same again.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Louzie0 on June 15, 2011, 11:00:24 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

so exactly what does that look like? Let me guess,

1) He gets manager's to sign for us irrespective of who we are, how much money they want, and how much power they want? He also sends a voting form out to the fans so that we can all vote on it. And if the vote isn't at least a 95%-5% majority we'll all keep voting until it is. Said candidates will be asked to put their lives on hold.
2) He spends ridiculous amounts of money on players that we all agree are world class
3) He gives us a kit the we all agree is fantastic and we rarely if ever change it.
4) He keeps season ticket prices to the lowest in the division while still buying the world class players.

He could give us all of the above and people would still moan. The man isn't a bottomless pit. He's possibly going to make one questionable decision, yet there are calls for him to sell. I find the lack balance in that perspective from some people incredible to say the least.

And all of the above is totally outweighed by appointing a manager as poor and completely 'average' as McLeish. And, I'm sorry, but which of our current squad are World Class? Great players, sure, but World Class? C'mon ...


I think he's brill.


World class - Ashley, Downing, and Albrighton in a few years....
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 11:00:29 PM

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.

Here's a novelty. How about waiting to see what happens before you judge the rights and wrong of this decision?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Risso on June 15, 2011, 11:02:39 PM

I'd like to walk away from my mortgage, but to do so I'd have to sell my house.


He wouldn't ever leave us anyway, he's got a Villa tattoo.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: nordenvillain on June 15, 2011, 11:11:18 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

We might, just might, also get someone like Yeung or the clowns at Blackburn. Randy has made one unpopular decision so far, it hasn't yet been proved right or wrong, but he's being told to go. What was your opinion of him when he was shelling out £24 million in January?

Only one? Don't make me laugh.

How come we haven't heard you moaning before then?

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.
Just so that I understand what you mean :
1. Is there a difference between an unpopular decision and a questionable decision ? If so, please elaborate as to which ones were unpopular and which ones were questionable.
2. If any of his decisions have been both unpopular and questionable, please elaborate.
For what's it worth, I think that Randy has made a lot more popular and unquestionable decisions than the other sort, viz. Acorns sponsorship, free coaches, opening his cheque book to a much greater extent than most other owners in the PL. Also, if getting an arab owners a la Man City turns a high proportion of your fans into 1st class arseholes and completely and utterly oblivious to how a football club should be run, forget it for me - I live and work in the Manchester area and the City fans have to a great extent turned into the greatest glory hunters bar none. They win the FA Cup and 35 years of non achievement conveniently gets forgotten.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 11:12:35 PM

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.

Here's a novelty. How about waiting to see what happens before you judge the rights and wrong of this decision?

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew but, based upon the existing evidence, there isn't a cat in hell's chance of that happening judging by every other team he's managed. Three relegations, lowest scoring Premiership team, lowest corner count etc. etc. He was in charge of a team that have just been relegated (playing, by all accounts according to some Bluenose friends, some of the worst football ever witnessed at St Andrews) and we've 'poached' him for Heaven's sake and you're prepared to back that decision? Ludicrous.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Irish villain on June 15, 2011, 11:15:00 PM
We have ti like it or lump it sadly.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 11:19:25 PM

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.

Here's a novelty. How about waiting to see what happens before you judge the rights and wrong of this decision?

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew but, based upon the existing evidence, there isn't a cat in hell's chance of that happening judging by every other team he's managed. Three relegations, lowest scoring Premiership team, lowest corner count etc. etc. He was in charge of a team that have just been relegated (playing, by all accounts according to some Bluenose friends, some of the worst football ever witnessed at St Andrews) and we've 'poached' him for Heaven's sake and you're prepared to back that decision? Ludicrous.


I don't agree with it. I haven't ever said I agree with it. But I'm not going to act like some spoilt kid who hasn't had his own way and call Randy things he clearly isn't just because I think he might be making a  mistake.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 11:19:58 PM

The apparent complete disregard for the feelings of the regular supporter at the present time leads me to believe we'd be better off without him.

Are there any other billionaires you know of looking to buy a Premier League club and hand it over to a  supporter co-operative?

Well it isn't anymore is it?

It never has been, so how would we be better off?

Because we might, just might, have an owner who understood the difference between a good manager and a mediocre one.

We might, just might, also get someone like Yeung or the clowns at Blackburn. Randy has made one unpopular decision so far, it hasn't yet been proved right or wrong, but he's being told to go. What was your opinion of him when he was shelling out £24 million in January?

Only one? Don't make me laugh.

How come we haven't heard you moaning before then?

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.
Just so that I understand what you mean :
1. Is there a difference between an unpopular decision and a questionable decision ? If so, please elaborate as to which ones were unpopular and which ones were questionable.

It depends on your point of view - appointing McLeish would obviously fit into both categories. On a purely questionable basis, the most recent one is 'sacking' GED without the foggiest idea of who to replace him with.

2. If any of his decisions have been both unpopular and questionable, please elaborate.

As above. McLeish is the obvious one. Giving MON money to spend on poor quality players. Employing GED. All unpopular and questionable in some quarters.

For what's it worth, I think that Randy has made a lot more popular and unquestionable decisions than the other sort, viz. Acorns sponsorship, free coaches, opening his cheque book to a much greater extent than most other owners in the PL.

I agree wholeheartedly. The Acorns sponsorship especially.

Also, if getting an arab owners a la Man City turns a high proportion of your fans into 1st class arseholes and completely and utterly oblivious to how a football club should be run, forget it for me - I live and work in the Manchester area and the City fans have to a great extent turned into the greatest glory hunters bar none. They win the FA Cup and 35 years of non achievement conveniently gets forgotten.

Who said anything about a Man City type owner? All I would like is an owner who knows the difference between a good manager and a poor one. I might be wrong but the Board, as it is, seem utterly clueless when it comes to footballing matters and, more recently, the good PR has gone too.

Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 11:23:23 PM

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.

Here's a novelty. How about waiting to see what happens before you judge the rights and wrong of this decision?

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew but, based upon the existing evidence, there isn't a cat in hell's chance of that happening judging by every other team he's managed. Three relegations, lowest scoring Premiership team, lowest corner count etc. etc. He was in charge of a team that have just been relegated (playing, by all accounts according to some Bluenose friends, some of the worst football ever witnessed at St Andrews) and we've 'poached' him for Heaven's sake and you're prepared to back that decision? Ludicrous.


I don't agree with it. I haven't ever said I agree with it. But I'm not going to act like some spoilt kid who hasn't had his own way and call Randy things he clearly isn't just because I think he might be making a  mistake.

What have I called him that he isn't? And choosing not to renew is acting like a 'spoilt kid'? It's a decision I've made that you obviously don't agree with. So be it. If that's being a 'spoilt kid' then, yes, I'm a spoilt kid.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 15, 2011, 11:28:10 PM

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew

And the last time, under any manager, we played like that was?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Risso on June 15, 2011, 11:30:06 PM

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew

And the last time, under any manager, we played like that was?

Most of the 1990s.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 11:30:20 PM

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.

Here's a novelty. How about waiting to see what happens before you judge the rights and wrong of this decision?

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew but, based upon the existing evidence, there isn't a cat in hell's chance of that happening judging by every other team he's managed. Three relegations, lowest scoring Premiership team, lowest corner count etc. etc. He was in charge of a team that have just been relegated (playing, by all accounts according to some Bluenose friends, some of the worst football ever witnessed at St Andrews) and we've 'poached' him for Heaven's sake and you're prepared to back that decision? Ludicrous.


I don't agree with it. I haven't ever said I agree with it. But I'm not going to act like some spoilt kid who hasn't had his own way and call Randy things he clearly isn't just because I think he might be making a  mistake.

What have I called him that he isn't? And choosing not to renew is acting like a 'spoilt kid'? It's a decision I've made that you obviously don't agree with. So be it. If that's being a 'spoilt kid' then, yes, I'm a spoilt kid.

You've said he's made a string of unpopular decisions, the board are uttterly clueless and we'd be better off without him.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 15, 2011, 11:30:26 PM

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew

And the last time, under any manager, we played like that was?

1976 - 77, but only at home.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 11:31:46 PM

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew

And the last time, under any manager, we played like that was?

Good question! We've had flashes of it under different managers. Under McLeish we ain't NEVER gonna see it and that's why I'm not renewing.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: phantom limb on June 15, 2011, 11:33:18 PM

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew

And the last time, under any manager, we played like that was?

Good question! We've had flashes of it under different managers. Under McLeish we ain't NEVER gonna see it and that's why I'm not renewing.

That's the spirit.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 11:35:10 PM

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.

Here's a novelty. How about waiting to see what happens before you judge the rights and wrong of this decision?

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew but, based upon the existing evidence, there isn't a cat in hell's chance of that happening judging by every other team he's managed. Three relegations, lowest scoring Premiership team, lowest corner count etc. etc. He was in charge of a team that have just been relegated (playing, by all accounts according to some Bluenose friends, some of the worst football ever witnessed at St Andrews) and we've 'poached' him for Heaven's sake and you're prepared to back that decision? Ludicrous.


I don't agree with it. I haven't ever said I agree with it. But I'm not going to act like some spoilt kid who hasn't had his own way and call Randy things he clearly isn't just because I think he might be making a  mistake.

What have I called him that he isn't? And choosing not to renew is acting like a 'spoilt kid'? It's a decision I've made that you obviously don't agree with. So be it. If that's being a 'spoilt kid' then, yes, I'm a spoilt kid.

You've said he's made a string of unpopular decisions, the board are uttterly clueless and we'd be better off without him.

So I haven't actually called him anything have I?

And, yes, I'd like us to have a Board that knows the difference between a good manager and a poor manager. What's wrong with that?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 11:38:13 PM

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.

Here's a novelty. How about waiting to see what happens before you judge the rights and wrong of this decision?

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew but, based upon the existing evidence, there isn't a cat in hell's chance of that happening judging by every other team he's managed. Three relegations, lowest scoring Premiership team, lowest corner count etc. etc. He was in charge of a team that have just been relegated (playing, by all accounts according to some Bluenose friends, some of the worst football ever witnessed at St Andrews) and we've 'poached' him for Heaven's sake and you're prepared to back that decision? Ludicrous.


I don't agree with it. I haven't ever said I agree with it. But I'm not going to act like some spoilt kid who hasn't had his own way and call Randy things he clearly isn't just because I think he might be making a  mistake.

What have I called him that he isn't? And choosing not to renew is acting like a 'spoilt kid'? It's a decision I've made that you obviously don't agree with. So be it. If that's being a 'spoilt kid' then, yes, I'm a spoilt kid.

You've said he's made a string of unpopular decisions, the board are uttterly clueless and we'd be better off without him.

So I haven't actually called him anything have I?

And, yes, I'd like us to have a Board that knows the difference between a good manager and a poor manager. What's wrong with that?

You're good at splitting hairs, I'll give you that. So far under Randy we've had O'Neill (who wasn't officially appointed by him but the reason he took the job is no great secret) and Houllier, who seemed to be moving in the right direction and might have had a good next season. I prefer to wait and see before judging.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Louzie0 on June 15, 2011, 11:43:57 PM
Sixways - what do you want to do, then?  I have lost track in the multiple postings, but still. 
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 15, 2011, 11:44:14 PM
You know, I'm pretty sure that some of the people currently having a pop at Randy were the same people who jumped on any negativity a couple of years back with the same "I wonder why Randy bothers" line we are seeing here.

Strange times.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 11:46:19 PM

Because none of the other questionable decisions he's made in the past have been so bad as the one he's apparently just made.

Here's a novelty. How about waiting to see what happens before you judge the rights and wrong of this decision?

Like I said in another thread, if we become the sort of team that we all would like to see (free-scoring, ball to feet, possession, no long, hopeful punts upfield) then I'll renew but, based upon the existing evidence, there isn't a cat in hell's chance of that happening judging by every other team he's managed. Three relegations, lowest scoring Premiership team, lowest corner count etc. etc. He was in charge of a team that have just been relegated (playing, by all accounts according to some Bluenose friends, some of the worst football ever witnessed at St Andrews) and we've 'poached' him for Heaven's sake and you're prepared to back that decision? Ludicrous.


I don't agree with it. I haven't ever said I agree with it. But I'm not going to act like some spoilt kid who hasn't had his own way and call Randy things he clearly isn't just because I think he might be making a  mistake.

What have I called him that he isn't? And choosing not to renew is acting like a 'spoilt kid'? It's a decision I've made that you obviously don't agree with. So be it. If that's being a 'spoilt kid' then, yes, I'm a spoilt kid.

You've said he's made a string of unpopular decisions, the board are uttterly clueless and we'd be better off without him.

So I haven't actually called him anything have I?

And, yes, I'd like us to have a Board that knows the difference between a good manager and a poor manager. What's wrong with that?

You're good at splitting hairs, I'll give you that. So far under Randy we've had O'Neill (who wasn't officially appointed by him but the reason he took the job is no great secret) and Houllier, who seemed to be moving in the right direction and might have had a good next season. I prefer to wait and see before judging.

Fair enough - I admire your optimism.

O'Neill also left because of him and GED was 'released', shall we say, by him without having lined up any sort of replacement. And, yes, I was looking forward to seeing how the GED era was going to pan out as, at the very least, he had us playing fairly attractive football at times.
 
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: sixways on June 15, 2011, 11:48:07 PM
Sixways - what do you want to do, then?  I have lost track in the multiple postings, but still.

What do I want to do? I'm not renewing my season ticket - that's all I can do.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 15, 2011, 11:48:41 PM
Fair enough - I admire your optimism.

O'Neill also left because of him and GED was 'released', shall we say, by him without having lined up any sort of replacement. And, yes, I was looking forward to seeing how the GED era was going to pan out as, at the very least, he had us playing fairly attractive football at times.
 

O'Neill left largely because he couldn't get his own way any more after four years of perfect working conditions. He also has to share the responsibility for some of the problems we now face. I agree with you regards Ged. 
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Lee on June 16, 2011, 12:35:32 AM
I hope Randy wont pay too much notice to a vociferous emotional minority.

Keep calm and carry on.



... if life was oh so simple.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: garyfouroaks on June 16, 2011, 12:50:21 AM
Anyone think Randy could decide to walk after this?
Definitely. He is too young for a wheelchair or zimmer frame.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Greg N'Ash on June 16, 2011, 12:55:37 AM
If Lerner left we'd survive i'm sure. Hopefully he doesn't take it personally. A lot of us think he's possibly about to make a major mistake and you're not much of a Villa fan if you blindly follow a chairman's decision. The thing that worries me is they seem to think its purely because he's from blose when the reality is, while a section of our support won't accept him for that reason, the main problem is he's not very good or at least has a bobbins record. The general's comments about Mcliesh were frankly baffling to my mind - like he was some sort of managerial genius.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Villanation on June 16, 2011, 01:08:57 AM
If Lerner left we'd survive i'm sure. Hopefully he doesn't take it personally. A lot of us think he's possibly about to make a major mistake and you're not much of a Villa fan if you blindly follow a chairman's decision. The thing that worries me is they seem to think its purely because he's from blose when the reality is, while a section of our support won't accept him for that reason, the main problem is he's not very good or at least has a bobbins record. The general's comments about Mcliesh were frankly baffling to my mind - like he was some sort of managerial genius.

The fact also we are about to employ a manager whereby its more important his face fits than his ability to do the job, and thats why it'll never works as long as RL as an hole in his bummy wum
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Eigentor on June 16, 2011, 07:34:49 AM
Randy's image has taken a hit. When it was clear Ged was going, Randy was the perfect chairman and should be able to attract a top manager offering substantial support and minimum interference. With some luck and/or determination he'd bring Ancelotti and/or Moyes, if not, we'd reluctantly accept Hughes or Benitez.

Not only are we disappointed that we have set our sights as low as McLeish. It's unconceivable that patiently waiting for this managerial gem to become available has been the masterplan since Ged became ill. More likely we're hiring him because he's avaiable and willing.

Suddenly the media's portrayal of the board, haplessly walking from one candidate to the next without any clear idea of what they want, doesn't seem so improbable.

And this run towards our perception of a club well run. Maybe the top candidates left their meetings with Lerner and Faulkner unimpressed. Or, at least, familiar with the requirements of challenging the Premiership elite, they were unconvinced that Lerner's backing would be sufficient to transform half a squad -- consisting of unprofessional, ageing seniors, promising but unproven youngsters and a couple of want-away stars -- into a competitive unit.

Constantly ridiculed in the media and with a board director who logs onto message boards to slag off fans, the club isn't run by experts. But as the "told you so"-brigade will tell the Houllier: "Be careful what you wish for!" If Randy leaves, he's more likely to be replaced by someone worse.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: NeilH on June 16, 2011, 07:56:26 AM
After bowing to the ridiculous over reaction and pressure over McClaren Randy seems now to have taken the route of ‘I don’t give a sh** what you think , I’m getting the man I think will do the best job.’ The very fact that he has gone and done this, when most of us have seen him as a force for good has knocked us all a little and given us a cold hard reality check about how multi-millionaire chairmen work.

I personally think his interest in the club has waned somewhat and by getting in McLeish he is looking to steady the boat and avoid the high and ultimate lows of MON. Over the next couple of years I suspect that we’ll not be pulling up any trees and will spend most of the time reigning in the excesses of the last four years. Maybe once we’ve come through this we might end up stronger, but we have to accept that for the near future we have no intention of playing with the big boys.

For all the people who have spat their dummies out over the last couple of days, I suspect that when the dust settles and you take a pure business look at the actions of the board, you’llrealise that we’re implementing austerity measures with McLeish at the helm.

Having said all of this, I still think that Randy could have achieved all his cost cutting austerity goals and maintained his image among the fans had he taken an easier option than McLeish.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: E I Adio on June 16, 2011, 08:43:05 AM

The fact also we are about to employ a manager whereby its more important his face fits than his ability to do the job, and thats why it'll never works as long as RL as an hole in his bummy wum

You don't think the two might be connected?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: MarkM on June 16, 2011, 08:52:10 AM
After bowing to the ridiculous over reaction and pressure over McClaren Randy seems now to have taken the route of ‘I don’t give a sh** what you think , I’m getting the man I think will do the best job.’


Do you think Randy thinks he will do the best job? If he thought that he would have approached him first.
Evidently he didn't so even RL doesn't think he is the best for the job

We have had some piss poor things go on this last season, O'Neil, the recruitment of a manager, the Kit fiasco, the search for another manager, having to pay out O'Neil, having to pay about £20Mill to get a second rate manager

None of this shows the board in a good light at the moment
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on June 16, 2011, 09:00:21 AM
This is a terrible decision. It doesn't mean that everything Randy has done is terrible, far from it. But if the best we can get is a manager who has been relegated twice in four seasons, we haven't moved on at all since Randy bought the club.

This isn't an emotional post, just stating it as I see it.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 16, 2011, 09:04:02 AM
He won't walk but a few points. I have found myself toughening my position against the screamers over the last couple of days so lord only knows what Randy makes of it.

If these protests have done nothing else it is to ensure that the board will not be so accommodating to the fans in future.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: hawkeye on June 16, 2011, 09:04:25 AM
The reason for the reaction is that it comes on the back of a season gaffes, bust ups and blow outs. Its not just the appointment of AM its the amaturish way we have gone about replacing GH. We need an appointment to steady the ship and get everyone back on side and looking forward to the new season. This appointment will achieve the opposite.I dont give a monkeys about him coming from the other lot. I do care that we are going down the road of hoofball with a bloke whose managerial track record in the PL is shot.
Add to this the fact that any failure on the pitch will put a pressure on the team which will be counter productive.
This just does not make any sense.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: markeeeebeeee2005 on June 16, 2011, 09:06:50 AM
Would it be true to say McAllister's record in the premiership is better than Big Eck's?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: ktvillan on June 16, 2011, 09:58:11 AM
He may well decide enough is enough but my reaction to that will depend on who succeeds him.  I want an owner that is ambitious and  wants the very best for Villa, and is willing to go for it.  I thought RL was that man until recently, but the type of manager he has been looking at indicates that he probably isn't.  Either that or he just doesn;t know what he is doing.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: willywombat on June 16, 2011, 10:01:05 AM
He may well decide enough is enough but my reaction to that will depend on who succeeds him.  I want an owner that is ambitious and  wants the very best for Villa, and is willing to go for it.  I thought RL was that man until recently, but the type of manager he has been looking at indicates that he probably isn't.  Either that or he just doesn;t know what he is doing.

Or maybe he realises he hasn't got quite enough money to compete with the arabs etc and isn't prepared to gamble the future of the club on a vain attempt to buy CL football?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: garyfouroaks on June 16, 2011, 10:01:53 AM
The reason for the reaction is that it comes on the back of a season gaffes, bust ups and blow outs. Its not just the appointment of AM its the amaturish way we have gone about replacing GH. We need an appointment to steady the ship and get everyone back on side and looking forward to the new season. This appointment will achieve the opposite.I dont give a monkeys about him coming from the other lot. I do care that we are going down the road of hoofball with a bloke whose managerial track record in the PL is shot.Add to this the fact that any failure on the pitch will put a pressure on the team which will be counter productive.This just does not make any sense.
I agree. the Blues connection is way down the list for virtually everyone I know.

Any managerial appointment is a statement.Houllier's credentials with his achievements in France and being one of only three managers in the history of the English game to secure a senior treble were a matter of record.MON's record was clear too.

Mcleish's credentials appear to be that he won't make too much fuss about transfer funds .McLarens football achievements and experience are far more impressive - yet he is now at Forest. And how Frank Rihkaard is not in the frame is beyond me.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 16, 2011, 10:04:03 AM
He may well decide enough is enough but my reaction to that will depend on who succeeds him.  I want an owner that is ambitious and  wants the very best for Villa, and is willing to go for it.  I thought RL was that man until recently, but the type of manager he has been looking at indicates that he probably isn't.  Either that or he just doesn;t know what he is doing.

Or maybe he realises he hasn't got quite enough money to compete with the arabs etc and isn't prepared to gamble the future of the club on a vain attempt to buy CL football?


Even if he decides that, he still needs to protect the investment he has already made in the club - it isn't just about not spending any more money, what about the 200m or whatever it is he has ploughed in already?

If that's the case, he's still going to want to get the best out of the side that he can. Each PL place adds a chunk of cash. So do Sky live appearances. There isn't going to be too much of either of those if things go badly.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: ktvillan on June 16, 2011, 10:07:04 AM
You know, I'm pretty sure that some of the people currently having a pop at Randy were the same people who jumped on any negativity a couple of years back with the same "I wonder why Randy bothers" line we are seeing here.

Strange times.

Not strange, just different times.  Two years ago RL seemed to be getting most things right on and off the pitch, thus criticism was less justified.  Like many said though, the real test would come when we hit a difficult patch, not when things werer sailing along nicely.  I have certainly changed my opinion of RL since then,  having watched the almost comical way he has handled the appointment of managers. And not for the better. 
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: DB on June 16, 2011, 10:07:11 AM
He won't walk but a few points. I have found myself toughening my position against the screamers over the last couple of days so lord only knows what Randy makes of it.

If these protests have done nothing else it is to ensure that the board will not be so accommodating to the fans in future.


Yes, we cannot upset Randy.




Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: ktvillan on June 16, 2011, 10:13:24 AM
He may well decide enough is enough but my reaction to that will depend on who succeeds him.  I want an owner that is ambitious and  wants the very best for Villa, and is willing to go for it.  I thought RL was that man until recently, but the type of manager he has been looking at indicates that he probably isn't.  Either that or he just doesn;t know what he is doing.

Or maybe he realises he hasn't got quite enough money to compete with the arabs etc and isn't prepared to gamble the future of the club on a vain attempt to buy CL football?


Yes maybe he has realised that.  And that's what is so depressing after being sold the dream of CL and "bright futre" 5 years ago.   And maybe that has something to do with a lot of people saying they'll have had enough should AM be hired.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: UsualSuspect on June 16, 2011, 10:16:38 AM
I think if RL got a decent offer (god knows what that is) tomorrow he would walk.

He's spent 200 million plus and is never going to be in position to take money out of Club so it's just going to keep on digging into his pockets. My appointing AM he is giving up all hope of us ever challenging for the top 4
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: ROBBO on June 16, 2011, 10:17:15 AM
I dont think McLaren was not interviewed because of supporter response i think he was not interviewed because McCleish had already been tapped up. I can't stand this Randy loves Villa chant, if he loved Villa as most of us do he wouldn't we wouldn't be getting AM. We are the most unsettled as a club and playing staff i can remember.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: willywombat on June 16, 2011, 10:19:41 AM
He may well decide enough is enough but my reaction to that will depend on who succeeds him.  I want an owner that is ambitious and  wants the very best for Villa, and is willing to go for it.  I thought RL was that man until recently, but the type of manager he has been looking at indicates that he probably isn't.  Either that or he just doesn;t know what he is doing.

Or maybe he realises he hasn't got quite enough money to compete with the arabs etc and isn't prepared to gamble the future of the club on a vain attempt to buy CL football?


Yes maybe he has realised that.  And that's what is so depressing after being sold the dream of CL and "bright futre" 5 years ago.   And maybe that has something to do with a lot of people saying they'll have had enough should AM be hired.

In fairness I dont think anyone foresaw Abu Dhabi throwing a very expensive spanner in the works 5 years ago. That being said I see no point in looking at worst case scenarios and accepting that is going to happen. AM may be the new Ron Saunders who wasnt exactly first on most supporters list when Vic Crowe got the bums rush
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Locko on June 16, 2011, 08:35:42 PM
London, Manchester, and Liverpool are awash with successful, competative football clubs.

Unfortunatey we live in Birmingham a city that's managed one League Championship in 100 years.

Clearly it's down to Aston Villa to give the people of Birmingham something to shout about, but I think it's fairly clear now that with Randy Lerner as owner  we'll do no more than tread water.

 

THis precisely. THe appointment of shit like AM confirns to me Lerner has neither the wherewithal or nous to nmake a real go of it; as such he should f*ck off and take his lickspittle lackies with hinm and sell to someoene who can put us in a position to really compete. From day one he's been riding the baloney pony - fed us all shovels full of horseshit which we gullibly swallowed down  after enduring Ellis's tenure. In short we were duped. Most Browns fans as far as my undertanding goes wouldn't piss on Lerner if he was on fire. I'm now beginning to understand why....
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: John Mitchell on June 16, 2011, 08:46:44 PM
A few have said they will back him or any other Villa manager, I'm not sure I've read anyone who thinks appointing him is anything but a bad idea.

I do - he has won more trophies as a manager than our last 10 managers put together - year one Blues finished in their highest ever league position and year 2 won a trophy (One more than we have had for years!) -not bad with the resources available. We have an infinitely better structure on and off the pitch than blues and better finances - style of play is based upon players available - as stated in another post we have an out and out goalscorer who can get 20 goals a season - if he can improve our defence then top 6 is a strong possibility - MON was welcomed with open arms when he came and his trophy successes were in Scotlandand his style of play was no different to Mcleish. I for one will give him my support - I have been a ST holder for 43 years and I support ASTON VILLA whoever the players and whoever the manager. I will still be supporting ASTON VILLA long after McLeish has left as well.

Best post I have read on the subject. Here here.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: richard moore on June 16, 2011, 08:51:46 PM
Great post Malcolm. I have been completely baffled by the adulation afforded O'Neill on his arrival and the criticism of AM for his style of football and winning trophies mainly in Scotland. I can't see the difference in any way at all. Perception is an amazing thing, it really is...
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Lee on June 16, 2011, 08:52:00 PM
He won't walk but a few points. I have found myself toughening my position against the screamers over the last couple of days so lord only knows what Randy makes of it.

If these protests have done nothing else it is to ensure that the board will not be so accommodating to the fans in future.

I agree that fan power being an influence on the Board can be a bad thing in the normal scheme of things, but the Board have brought this on themselves in its entirety, and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on June 17, 2011, 12:46:38 AM
Spot on post Malcolm. MON biggest success was in the SPL. Celtic fans regulary slated him for boring football. I have got to let this "nose" thing go now. (well soon anyway) I am sure no manager we could of appointed will try as hard as him to get this right. Ok his previous is poor. But Randy will back him and if he brings in his former chief scout (Paul Montgomery) Who has a very good reputation. (Drogba, Malouda) and has fantastic contacts. I think he is going to suprise a lot of us come the new year ...........
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: pooligan on June 17, 2011, 05:00:39 PM
Learner wont have to watch the boring football served up by our new manager every home match like the fans. When i looked to see if he was at the match more often than not he was,nt .Maybe mr woodhall can tell me how many games he actually attends.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 17, 2011, 05:32:31 PM
Learner wont have to watch the boring football served up by our new manager every home match like the fans. When i looked to see if he was at the match more often than not he was,nt .Maybe mr woodhall can tell me how many games he actually attends.

How should I know?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: pooligan on June 17, 2011, 05:42:58 PM
Hello mr woodhall, i just thought from my many chats with you over the years you would know. Hope your not losing your touch mate.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Fuse on June 17, 2011, 06:06:27 PM
Just out of interest has anyone ever seen proof of this so called tattoo Lerner is supposed to ahve on his leg? Or is that more PR bullshit from General Krulak?

As for Lerner, I think this is phase 1 of an exit strategy which will involve providing limited funds to keep us in the PL whilst he looks for a buyer. He will probably ramp up selling our best players alogn the way to recoup on his investment.

I think he will be gone within 18 months.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: RunRickyRun on June 17, 2011, 06:19:15 PM
Just out of interest has anyone ever seen proof of this so called tattoo Lerner is supposed to ahve on his leg? Or is that more PR bullshit from General Krulak?

As for Lerner, I think this is phase 1 of an exit strategy which will involve providing limited funds to keep us in the PL whilst he looks for a buyer. He will probably ramp up selling our best players alogn the way to recoup on his investment.

I think he will be gone within 18 months.

So you prepare to sell a business by risking alienating your customers?

If anything it shows he's in for the long haul. A person looking to sell would splash out on a big name manager to artificially increase gate receipts,  merchandise sold and increase the profile of the club.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Fuse on June 17, 2011, 06:26:17 PM
Just out of interest has anyone ever seen proof of this so called tattoo Lerner is supposed to ahve on his leg? Or is that more PR bullshit from General Krulak?

As for Lerner, I think this is phase 1 of an exit strategy which will involve providing limited funds to keep us in the PL whilst he looks for a buyer. He will probably ramp up selling our best players alogn the way to recoup on his investment.

I think he will be gone within 18 months.

So you prepare to sell a business by risking alienating your customers?

If anything it shows he's in for the long haul. A person looking to sell would splash out on a big name manager to artificially increase gate receipts,  merchandise sold and increase the profile of the club.

The value fo the club is in it's infrastructure, stadium, property, training ground etc. The brand is important as it the size of its fanbase. The only thing which would make Villa more valuable is if we were nailed onf ro teh CL which we aren't So for Randy to recoup his money he needs to sell players and if he can do that and keep Villa in the PL the value fo the club to a buyer does not diminsih. Say Villa is worth £100m at the moment and Randy sells Darren Bent.Ashley Young and Downing, the club will still be worth £100m but Randy will be £60m better off.

So if he can do this and AM keeps us in the league then Randyw ill still have the club to sell but will have got some of his outlay in players back.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Gaz Jones on June 17, 2011, 06:30:32 PM
I've just had to re-register as haven't been on here for a very long time, but reading some of the comments on here has got the old juices flowing again!

There is a lot that depresses me about football at the moment.  Money, players, WAGS, Sky television, ITV, The BBC, Alan Hansen, all-seaters, the Champions League, The Europa League, The Premier League, FIFA, UEFA, The FA, Sepp Blatter, The England Team and just about every F**king thing else.

The one thing that didn't depress me was supporting a club where, at least I thought, the supporters understood that it takes time to build something worthwhile.  I couldn't give a shit how much Chelsea or Man City or anyone else spends, we have been going about things the right way.  Whichever way you look at it, I can't believe anyone thinks that the board haven't done enough yet to be given a chance when they make a decision.

I'm not any kind of McLeish apologist, but I'm not going to over-react either.  You know, just maybe there is a chance that some thought went into the process of appointing a new manager.  And before anyone says about him getting relegated twice, this is Birmingham City we are talking about.  Anyone that can manage to win a trophy with that shower of bastards must have something about him.

This last week may have been a PR disaster, but that's about the worst thing about it.  Ultimately, the board have appointed a manager who they feel is equipped to do the best job for Aston Villa, and no matter what anyone says there were other options available.  Give him a half decent squad, an owner who will let him get on with things in his own way and back him when needed, and a support that can fill a 40K plus stadium and who knows.  At the very least, both manager and owner should be given a chance.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on June 17, 2011, 06:41:01 PM
I think Randy will put more money in the club but he won't exceed 20 millions pound a year.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: ez on June 17, 2011, 06:41:09 PM
Its all on Randys head. Nobody else i know of wanted McLeish so if this goes tits up the blames all his own.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: blokeyinbrum on June 17, 2011, 06:47:09 PM
 The major problem at Aston Villa is that the hierarchy that run the club are not football people.
Lerner is obviously not a stupid man but by that token he is not a football man and the two managerial appointments he has been forced to make have exposed him to his naivity.
Houlliers appointment was  obviously a knee jerk reaction and the appointment of McLeish ill advised. Ive never been in favour of the continental model of club management but Lerner, Faulkener, and Krulak (who is this man???) need to concentrate on running the club whilst allowing a director of the football to run all matters football. Lerner is trying to multitask both rolls and is only qualified to do one, unfortunately without a change of business model the 'other one' will only suffer.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: CBAV06 on June 17, 2011, 07:41:19 PM
  Ultimately, the board have appointed a manager who they feel is equipped to do the best job for Aston Villa, and no matter what anyone says there were other options available.

Now quit trying to bring logic into this, it will only make things more confusing!!

Re: Most Browns fans wouldn't piss on him... Pure trash. Just because someone says "Most People" doesnt make it "Most" and doesnt make "Most People" right. There are tons of stupid Browns fans that place the blame on whatever is easiest. This is just another way that the Browns and Villa are similar :)

Re: 'A better manager' this one is really easy to discuss. If you really believe that there was a better manager that was going to step up for Villa just link us the comment where he says he will be happy to take the job. If my grandma is the only one interested and available to fill the position...she IS the best choice at the time. :D
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: myf on June 17, 2011, 10:35:23 PM
London, Manchester, and Liverpool are awash with successful, competative football clubs.

Unfortunatey we live in Birmingham a city that's managed one League Championship in 100 years.

Clearly it's down to Aston Villa to give the people of Birmingham something to shout about, but I think it's fairly clear now that with Randy Lerner as owner  we'll do no more than tread water.

 

THis precisely. THe appointment of shit like AM confirns to me Lerner has neither the wherewithal or nous to nmake a real go of it; as such he should f*ck off and take his lickspittle lackies with hinm and sell to someoene who can put us in a position to really compete. From day one he's been riding the baloney pony - fed us all shovels full of horseshit which we gullibly swallowed down  after enduring Ellis's tenure. In short we were duped. Most Browns fans as far as my undertanding goes wouldn't piss on Lerner if he was on fire. I'm now beginning to understand why....

After reading this drivel I'm glad I've been away from Birmingham for the past week.  Anyone would think that Trevor Francis had just bought AVFC.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 17, 2011, 11:06:28 PM
London, Manchester, and Liverpool are awash with successful, competative football clubs.

Unfortunatey we live in Birmingham a city that's managed one League Championship in 100 years.

Clearly it's down to Aston Villa to give the people of Birmingham something to shout about, but I think it's fairly clear now that with Randy Lerner as owner  we'll do no more than tread water.

 

THis precisely. THe appointment of shit like AM confirns to me Lerner has neither the wherewithal or nous to nmake a real go of it; as such he should f*ck off and take his lickspittle lackies with hinm and sell to someoene who can put us in a position to really compete. From day one he's been riding the baloney pony - fed us all shovels full of horseshit which we gullibly swallowed down  after enduring Ellis's tenure. In short we were duped. Most Browns fans as far as my undertanding goes wouldn't piss on Lerner if he was on fire. I'm now beginning to understand why....

Why has it taken five years to say this if you've thought it all along?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 17, 2011, 11:21:50 PM
Re: 'A better manager' this one is really easy to discuss. If you really believe that there was a better manager that was going to step up for Villa just link us the comment where he says he will be happy to take the job. If my grandma is the only one interested and available to fill the position...she IS the best choice at the time. :D
Do you honestly believe McLeish was the best and only option available?  McClaren was a better option for starters: he was both keen and available.  Quite why Lerner pulled the plug on him but didn't do so with McLeish is baffling.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: myf on June 18, 2011, 12:12:55 AM
Re: 'A better manager' this one is really easy to discuss. If you really believe that there was a better manager that was going to step up for Villa just link us the comment where he says he will be happy to take the job. If my grandma is the only one interested and available to fill the position...she IS the best choice at the time. :D
Do you honestly believe McLeish was the best and only option available?  McClaren was a better option for starters: he was both keen and available.  Quite why Lerner pulled the plug on him but didn't do so with McLeish is baffling.

Debatable.  Keen yes, and desperate for a premier league appointment but telling that none have been forthcoming.  I think he would have been a much bigger risk than McLeish, getting major abuse from the media, every away ground and having us lot on his back as well after any hint of a bad run.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: KRS on June 18, 2011, 04:30:58 AM
I agree with myf...McClaren would have been a bigger gamble and its only since hes signed for Forest that the media have turned the giggles to "ooh Villa missed out on McClaren". His press conference interview was enough to convince me that hes still not right in the head, and no way would I have confidence in him going into the transfer market or to improve our situation. His appointment to Forest makes sense for both McClaren and Forest...he gets to prove himself at a lower level with less resources and less risk.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: CBAV06 on June 18, 2011, 04:44:24 AM
Re: 'A better manager' this one is really easy to discuss. If you really believe that there was a better manager that was going to step up for Villa just link us the comment where he says he will be happy to take the job. If my grandma is the only one interested and available to fill the position...she IS the best choice at the time. :D
Do you honestly believe McLeish was the best and only option available?  McClaren was a better option for starters: he was both keen and available.  Quite why Lerner pulled the plug on him but didn't do so with McLeish is baffling.

Do you honestly believe that someone looking to hire an employee for their own company is going to look for the worst possible solution and go with it?? Every hypothetical people present can be turned around to prove them wrong as well, it's the beauty of dealing in fantasy...so I'd ask again, who is this top notch coach that was a better choice and wanted to sign with Villa right now and we declined?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: The Gruffalo on June 18, 2011, 09:32:56 AM
Randy gave us hope and expectation 5 years ago.   After the Ellis years this was a new dawn and how exciting it was.  We've ridden that wave for 4 years, had a blip with Houllier but once he had gone i think everyone expected someone to take us on again.

McLeish is a signal that we are back to cutting our cloth as we were under Ellis.  That's Randys perogative, it's his money thats been financing the signings etc, but he needs to be open about it. 

To an extent the problem here isn't the owner, it's the realisation for us as Villa fans that we may never get back up to where we used to be.  If a thoughtful, considerate and passionate owner such as Randy can't do it, then who can?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Locko on June 18, 2011, 12:28:15 PM
London, Manchester, and Liverpool are awash with successful, competative football clubs.

Unfortunatey we live in Birmingham a city that's managed one League Championship in 100 years.

Clearly it's down to Aston Villa to give the people of Birmingham something to shout about, but I think it's fairly clear now that with Randy Lerner as owner  we'll do no more than tread water.

 

This precisely. THe appointment of shit like AM confirns to me Lerner has neither the wherewithal or nous to nmake a real go of it; as such he should f*ck off and take his lickspittle lackies with hinm and sell to someoene who can put us in a position to really compete. From day one he's been riding the baloney pony - fed us all shovels full of horseshit which we gullibly swallowed down  after enduring Ellis's tenure. In short we were duped. Most Browns fans as far as my undertanding goes wouldn't piss on Lerner if he was on fire. I'm now beginning to understand why....

Why has it taken five years to say this if you've thought it all along?

I've had misgivings ever since the petulant fallout with MON;The incomprehesibly muddled selection process over the last two managerial appointments leads me to question the competence of the board and general structure at all levels. Randy was lucky in so much as on take over he replaced a generally loathed ex-chairman, so getting everyone onside was never going to be horrendously difficult.He was also bequeathed a fairly healthy set of finances ( debt free) and a decent manager in situ. Five years on we are arguably worse off than when he arrived, but with a far higher level of expectation from the fan base, a toxic combination. I'm not overly convinced by his stewardship over the last 18 months. It all seemed too good to be true and probably was, we all lapped it up and now the party is over and in the cold light of day much of what we saw in the first instance appears o be little more than smoke and mirrors. What a shame it will end like this...   
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Louzie0 on June 18, 2011, 12:32:10 PM
Leonard Cohen alert...    Leonard Cohen alert...    Leonard cohen alert...  take cover
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: martin on June 18, 2011, 01:46:59 PM
Anyone think Randy could decide to walk after this?
I wouldn't blame him if he did but it would be the worst things that could happen to our club.

I would blame him if he decided to walk because he got the hump because people didn't agree with him. It would be petty and childish and deserving of blame.

Would it be "the worst thing that could happen to the club"? Don't know. He's been generally good for the club but who's to say a successor wouldn't also be.

What he has done is make a pig's ear of replacing Houllier. To be honest, I'm not bothered whether he's got the wedge to chuck at giving us a stab at success or not. What bothers me is his being incapable of selling this club to good managers and ending up having to tout it around to poor ones.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 18, 2011, 05:34:42 PM
London, Manchester, and Liverpool are awash with successful, competative football clubs.

Unfortunatey we live in Birmingham a city that's managed one League Championship in 100 years.

Clearly it's down to Aston Villa to give the people of Birmingham something to shout about, but I think it's fairly clear now that with Randy Lerner as owner  we'll do no more than tread water.

 

This precisely. THe appointment of shit like AM confirns to me Lerner has neither the wherewithal or nous to nmake a real go of it; as such he should f*ck off and take his lickspittle lackies with hinm and sell to someoene who can put us in a position to really compete. From day one he's been riding the baloney pony - fed us all shovels full of horseshit which we gullibly swallowed down  after enduring Ellis's tenure. In short we were duped. Most Browns fans as far as my undertanding goes wouldn't piss on Lerner if he was on fire. I'm now beginning to understand why....

Why has it taken five years to say this if you've thought it all along?

I've had misgivings ever since the petulant fallout with MON;The incomprehesibly muddled selection process over the last two managerial appointments leads me to question the competence of the board and general structure at all levels. Randy was lucky in so much as on take over he replaced a generally loathed ex-chairman, so getting everyone onside was never going to be horrendously difficult.He was also bequeathed a fairly healthy set of finances ( debt free) and a decent manager in situ. Five years on we are arguably worse off than when he arrived, but with a far higher level of expectation from the fan base, a toxic combination. I'm not overly convinced by his stewardship over the last 18 months. It all seemed too good to be true and probably was, we all lapped it up and now the party is over and in the cold light of day much of what we saw in the first instance appears o be little more than smoke and mirrors. What a shame it will end like this...   

I repeat. Why has it taken five years to say this if you felt it all along?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 18, 2011, 06:40:15 PM
What he has done is make a pig's ear of replacing Houllier. To be honest, I'm not bothered whether he's got the wedge to chuck at giving us a stab at success or not. What bothers me is his being incapable of selling this club to good managers and ending up having to tout it around to poor ones.
Exactly right.  Given the field of candidates, how the fuck did we end up with McLeish?  What kind of plan was Lerner working to?  In fact, did he have one?  Turning down McLaren is fine if you get someone better.  But we didn't.  Even with no pre-season, three managers, player unrest and a horrendous injury crisis we still finished as high as McLeish has ever got.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: TimTheVillain on June 18, 2011, 06:59:20 PM
What he has done is make a pig's ear of replacing Houllier. To be honest, I'm not bothered whether he's got the wedge to chuck at giving us a stab at success or not. What bothers me is his being incapable of selling this club to good managers and ending up having to tout it around to poor ones.
Exactly right.  Given the field of candidates, how the fuck did we end up with McLeish?  What kind of plan was Lerner working to?  In fact, did he have one?  Turning down McLaren is fine if you get someone better.  But we didn't.  Even with no pre-season, three managers, player unrest and a horrendous injury crisis we still finished as high as McLeish has ever got.

h-c, I like / agree with many of your posts, but the McLeish stuff is wrong.

The guy will do a great job at VP, you watch ...
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Ian. on June 18, 2011, 07:04:09 PM
I don't know how you can say McClaren is better? How do you judge how good someone is anyway? If it is on pasts record I'd say McCleish has the better record.
I wonder if McCleish was not in charge of Birmingham before us but Fulham how many people would be chosing McClaren over McCleish?
I didn't want either, I wanted the best out there, they just didn't want us.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: CBAV06 on June 18, 2011, 09:59:39 PM
What he has done is make a pig's ear of replacing Houllier. To be honest, I'm not bothered whether he's got the wedge to chuck at giving us a stab at success or not. What bothers me is his being incapable of selling this club to good managers and ending up having to tout it around to poor ones.
Exactly right.  Given the field of candidates, how the fuck did we end up with McLeish?  What kind of plan was Lerner working to?  In fact, did he have one?  Turning down McLaren is fine if you get someone better.  But we didn't.  Even with no pre-season, three managers, player unrest and a horrendous injury crisis we still finished as high as McLeish has ever got.

Hilts, I keep asking and you keep dodging....what was the field of candidates willing and able to take the Villa job right now?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Risso on June 18, 2011, 10:06:48 PM
I don't know how you can say McClaren is better? How do you judge how good someone is anyway? If it is on pasts record I'd say McCleish has the better record.
I wonder if McCleish was not in charge of Birmingham before us but Fulham how many people would be chosing McClaren over McCleish?
I didn't want either, I wanted the best out there, they just didn't want us.

If McLeish had just taken Fulham down, two years after relegating them the first time I think we'd see a similar level of vitriol.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Locko on June 18, 2011, 10:11:34 PM
London, Manchester, and Liverpool are awash with successful, competative football clubs.

Unfortunatey we live in Birmingham a city that's managed one League Championship in 100 years.

Clearly it's down to Aston Villa to give the people of Birmingham something to shout about, but I think it's fairly clear now that with Randy Lerner as owner  we'll do no more than tread water.

 

This precisely. THe appointment of shit like AM confirns to me Lerner has neither the wherewithal or nous to nmake a real go of it; as such he should f*ck off and take his lickspittle lackies with hinm and sell to someoene who can put us in a position to really compete. From day one he's been riding the baloney pony - fed us all shovels full of horseshit which we gullibly swallowed down  after enduring Ellis's tenure. In short we were duped. Most Browns fans as far as my undertanding goes wouldn't piss on Lerner if he was on fire. I'm now beginning to understand why....

Why has it taken five years to say this if you've thought it all along?

I've had misgivings ever since the petulant fallout with MON;The incomprehesibly muddled selection process over the last two managerial appointments leads me to question the competence of the board and general structure at all levels. Randy was lucky in so much as on take over he replaced a generally loathed ex-chairman, so getting everyone onside was never going to be horrendously difficult.He was also bequeathed a fairly healthy set of finances ( debt free) and a decent manager in situ. Five years on we are arguably worse off than when he arrived, but with a far higher level of expectation from the fan base, a toxic combination. I'm not overly convinced by his stewardship over the last 18 months. It all seemed too good to be true and probably was, we all lapped it up and now the party is over and in the cold light of day much of what we saw in the first instance appears o be little more than smoke and mirrors. What a shame it will end like this...   

I repeat. Why has it taken five years to say this if you felt it all along?

I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Eigentor on June 18, 2011, 10:25:33 PM
I don't know how you can say McClaren is better? How do you judge how good someone is anyway? If it is on pasts record I'd say McCleish has the better record.
I wonder if McCleish was not in charge of Birmingham before us but Fulham how many people would be chosing McClaren over McCleish?
I didn't want either, I wanted the best out there, they just didn't want us.

If McLeish had just taken Fulham down, two years after relegating them the first time I think we'd see a similar level of vitriol.

Most fans will probably agree that relegation is worse than using an umbrella.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 18, 2011, 10:27:55 PM
Hilts, I keep asking and you keep dodging....what was the field of candidates willing and able to take the Villa job right now?
Eh?  You've asked me once as far as I can tell, and I've only just read it.  Besides, I've already given you McClaren.  To that you can add Benitez, who was practically reading out his CV at one point.  Hughes, Moyes, Jol, Van Gaal, Flores, Rijkaard and even Martinez would have been better bets than McLeish, in my view.  And that's without even turning my mind to it.

Now you may say "X Y Z turned us down" to which I would ask how hard did we try?  I'd also ask why did the Benitez thing fall through?  Why did we cancel McClaren's interview?  If it was because of the fans' response, why not do the same with McLeish?  However the board conducted the search, if the end result was McLeish, with all those other names in the frame, then they fucked it up massively.

You can't seriously believe McLeish was the best available candidate, surely?  But if you do, perhaps you could say why, because I'd like some sort of insight into why the board inexplicably thought the same.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Ian. on June 18, 2011, 10:46:25 PM
I don't know how you can say McClaren is better? How do you judge how good someone is anyway? If it is on pasts record I'd say McCleish has the better record.
I wonder if McCleish was not in charge of Birmingham before us but Fulham how many people would be chosing McClaren over McCleish?
I didn't want either, I wanted the best out there, they just didn't want us.

If McLeish had just taken Fulham down, two years after relegating them the first time I think we'd see a similar level of vitriol.

Most fans will probably agree that relegation is worse than using an umbrella.
What I'm saying is if you look on paper McCleish has achieved more as a manager than McClaren. Lets face it, it would take a real genius and there might not be one out there to keep the rags in the top division. At least he achieved a high table finish with them.
He's here now, we have a good group of players lets see what he can do. Hopefully we'll see why Randy wanted him so much. I was totally shocked we went for him. Not because he is a shit manager because he isn't, I just didn't see it coming.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 18, 2011, 11:06:12 PM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.

Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Barca 2011 on June 18, 2011, 11:16:53 PM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.



Not quite where I hoped we would be 5 years on. Have been some good things, some bad, BUT have a feeling it aint gonna get any better. Time to go? Depends who wants to buy. If we are not careful we could end up with a Carson Yeung type character.There aint many people like Sheikh Mansoor shopping at the moment, and those who are dont want to shop in Brum.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 18, 2011, 11:19:58 PM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.



Not quite where I hoped we would be 5 years on. Have been some good things, some bad, BUT have a feeling it aint gonna get any better. Time to go? Depends who wants to buy. If we are not careful we could end up with a Carson Yeung type character.There aint many people like Sheikh Mansoor shopping at the moment, and those who are dont want to shop in Brum.

And then, first time this mythical new owner does something unpopular, will we want him to sell up as well?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2011, 12:08:29 AM
I think it's a case of nearly all of Randy's ownership being great, but we've disagreed with recent events. However he's made the decision to appoint Mcleish, so we need to accept that now. I'm sure he will back him and I hope he will succeed. I wasn't happy with the appointment, but I'm sure Randy has done it for what he believes are the right reasons. Hopefully Mcleish will be a success.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Chap on June 19, 2011, 12:34:49 AM
Alex McLeish will have a £40m war chest to help him hit the ground running in his new job at Aston Villa. Full story: Sunday Mirror

The right sort of reaction if this is true.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Dante Lavelli on June 19, 2011, 02:42:06 AM
Alex McLeish will have a £40m war chest to help him hit the ground running in his new job at Aston Villa. Full story: Sunday Mirror

The right sort of reaction if this is true.

Does it say whether that includes the Young and Downing cash?

With Randy, I think he ALWAYS has the best intention for Aston Villa at heart however that does not mean he cannot make bad decisions or (always) be completely happy with events.  Hopefully he will realise that the recruitment of both Houllier and McLeish has gone badly and will carry out an internal review to see where we can improve and protect ourselves in the future. 

The reality is, we would probably never hear that such a review has ever taken place - and nor should we - so people will continue to moan.

However, based on previous actions he certainly deserves the chance to change and improve.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on June 19, 2011, 08:45:02 AM
Alex McLeish will have a £40m war chest to help him hit the ground running in his new job at Aston Villa. Full story: Sunday Mirror

The right sort of reaction if this is true.
I'll be pleased if he gets that amount.
However, it is the Mirror, so we'll see.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Locko on June 19, 2011, 10:07:02 AM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.


I didn't see it coming from day one I've never stated that, merely I was too willing to accept Lerner without really looking any deeper than he wasn't Doug. He's making a lot of cack handed decisions having proved so sure footed intially.There is a very Ellisian feel around VP lately. I'm sure my doubts would have surfaced earlier had I sought the opinions of Browns fans. As for who he sells to I don't have a list of prospective buyers, but I'm sure someone with the means would like the kudos that comes with owning a club in the English top flight. The very idea that there would be no takers should the club be put up for sale is a non sequitur, would they prove to be better owners is debatable.Please enlighten me as to the quantum leap forward we've taken during Mr Lerner's tenure? we're still a selling club, spiralling debt, no more trophies in the cabinet and now set up to become firmly entrenched midtable
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2011, 10:26:50 AM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.



Surely judging somebody over a period of time is the only way to judge them? 
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: TimTheVillain on June 19, 2011, 10:40:44 AM
To the OP, no chance is the answer - he's looking forward to working with McLeish just as we should be looking at the appointment in a positive light - why keep bringing up the type of football Blues played - they best ux last season Ffs!

Can't wait to see the new era taking shape .
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Eigentor on June 19, 2011, 11:06:37 AM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.



Not quite where I hoped we would be 5 years on. Have been some good things, some bad, BUT have a feeling it aint gonna get any better. Time to go? Depends who wants to buy. If we are not careful we could end up with a Carson Yeung type character.There aint many people like Sheikh Mansoor shopping at the moment, and those who are dont want to shop in Brum.

And then, first time this mythical new owner does something unpopular, will we want him to sell up as well?

I agree that calling for Lerner to sell is OTT, but surely this is not simply a chilidish hiss because we didn't get the manager we wanted. Other things play a part too: a selection process so amateurish that even Graham Taylor saw the need to criticise it in public, the board's apparent inability to sell the club to a decent manager and the lack of pr skills to prevent us becoming a laughing stock in the media.

People are not only questioning the outcome, but the process leading to it as well.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 19, 2011, 11:32:03 AM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.


I didn't see it coming from day one I've never stated that, merely I was too willing to accept Lerner without really looking any deeper than he wasn't Doug. He's making a lot of cack handed decisions having proved so sure footed intially.There is a very Ellisian feel around VP lately. I'm sure my doubts would have surfaced earlier had I sought the opinions of Browns fans. As for who he sells to I don't have a list of prospective buyers, but I'm sure someone with the means would like the kudos that comes with owning a club in the English top flight. The very idea that there would be no takers should the club be put up for sale is a non sequitur, would they prove to be better owners is debatable.Please enlighten me as to the quantum leap forward we've taken during Mr Lerner's tenure? we're still a selling club, spiralling debt, no more trophies in the cabinet and now set up to become firmly entrenched midtable


We've had four years of progress, a fifth interrupted by a manager throwing a strop when finally asked to work under the same conditions as every other manager and a new appointment no-one can judge yet. Five months ago we smashed our transfer record. In the light of such evidence we're apparently no better off than we were under Ellis - the same Ellis who refused to sign a free transfer because we couldn't afford him.

You've thought it for some indeterminate time but only now will you say anything. There's a coincidence.

Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: 1_Pablo_Angel on June 19, 2011, 11:48:43 AM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.


I didn't see it coming from day one I've never stated that, merely I was too willing to accept Lerner without really looking any deeper than he wasn't Doug. He's making a lot of cack handed decisions having proved so sure footed intially.There is a very Ellisian feel around VP lately. I'm sure my doubts would have surfaced earlier had I sought the opinions of Browns fans. As for who he sells to I don't have a list of prospective buyers, but I'm sure someone with the means would like the kudos that comes with owning a club in the English top flight. The very idea that there would be no takers should the club be put up for sale is a non sequitur, would they prove to be better owners is debatable.Please enlighten me as to the quantum leap forward we've taken during Mr Lerner's tenure? we're still a selling club, spiralling debt, no more trophies in the cabinet and now set up to become firmly entrenched midtable

Well as long as you're 'sure that someone with the means would like the kudos' then the bastard has surely got to sell!

Ruling families of Middle Eastern Oil States tend not to fancy buying football clubs in Birmingham that often, alas. Randy has pumped in a ton of money, had a bloody good go at getting us into the Champions league, and all the while shown a lot of respect for the history and tradition of the club. As much as we moan about ticket prices, ours still stand up to scrutiny when compared to other clubs in the top 10 of the league, which is pretty impressive when you consider the amount of cash he's put in.

Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2011, 12:02:44 PM
I like pretty much everyone was swept along in that euphoria of being rid of Doug, and bought hook line and sinker talk of reinstating us amongst the elite. Five years on I feel I've been sold a pup. For someone who couldn't put a foot wrong  initially he's looking more fallible by the day, mounting debt, poor managerial appointments. Not such a rosey picture now is it? I no longer believe he's the man for the job ,just as old Douglas wasn't before him. Five years is a long time and opinions are shaped by events, are they not? In adversity he's been found wanting in my eyes. I'd not be sad if he called it quits and sold up...       

You've reckoned it since day one, we're worse now that when he arrived and you want him to sell up. Yet you're only saying it now. Maybe in another five years you'll be able to say who he should sell to.


I didn't see it coming from day one I've never stated that, merely I was too willing to accept Lerner without really looking any deeper than he wasn't Doug. He's making a lot of cack handed decisions having proved so sure footed intially.There is a very Ellisian feel around VP lately. I'm sure my doubts would have surfaced earlier had I sought the opinions of Browns fans. As for who he sells to I don't have a list of prospective buyers, but I'm sure someone with the means would like the kudos that comes with owning a club in the English top flight. The very idea that there would be no takers should the club be put up for sale is a non sequitur, would they prove to be better owners is debatable.Please enlighten me as to the quantum leap forward we've taken during Mr Lerner's tenure? we're still a selling club, spiralling debt, no more trophies in the cabinet and now set up to become firmly entrenched midtable


We've had four years of progress, a fifth interrupted by a manager throwing a strop when finally asked to work under the same conditions as every other manager and a new appointment no-one can judge yet. Five months ago we smashed our transfer record. In the light of such evidence we're apparently no better off than we were under Ellis - the same Ellis who refused to sign a free transfer because we couldn't afford him.

You've thought it for some indeterminate time but only now will you say anything. There's a coincidence.



Until the signing of Darren Bent 5 years in, which was an emergency relegation avoiding measure, our record signing cost about £2.5m more than the £9.5m we paid for Juan Pablo Angel under Ellis 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: 1_Pablo_Angel on June 19, 2011, 12:17:15 PM
Under Lerner we've bought Young, Davies, Downing, NRC and Milner all for close to the £10m mark, plus Bent of course.

Angel was very much an exception in the Ellis years.

The point that Lerner has sanctioned and funded a level of spending unheard of in the days of the previous regime is valid.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2011, 12:19:27 PM
Under Lerner we've bought Young, Davies, Downing, NRC and Milner all for close to the £10m mark, plus Bent of course.

Angel was very much an exception in the Ellis years.

The point that Lerner has sanctioned and funded a level of spending unheard of in the days of the previous regime is valid.

It's all relative isn't it?  We spent big on JPA, Collymore, Merson and Balaban under Ellis.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: 1_Pablo_Angel on June 19, 2011, 12:23:36 PM
True. I'm pretty sure we've spent considerably more (net) in a fairly short period of time under Lerner though, even allowing for footballing inflation.

We've all seen the net spend figures whilst analysing O'Neil's transfer record. This hasn't exactly been reigned in since he left, given our activity in January. You can't seriously be claiming we spent a relatively similar amount under Ellis?
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2011, 12:49:50 PM
True. I'm pretty sure we've spent considerably more (net) in a fairly short period of time under Lerner though, even allowing for footballing inflation.

We've all seen the net spend figures whilst analysing O'Neil's transfer record. This hasn't exactly been reigned in since he left, given our activity in January. You can't seriously be claiming we spent a relatively similar amount under Ellis?

I'm not no.  We have of course spent a fair bit under Randy.  It just a) hasn't been spent wisely, and b) isn't enough.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: 1_Pablo_Angel on June 19, 2011, 01:02:09 PM
You're right. Although perhaps if it had been spent wisely, it might have been enough? Certainly for CL qualification, which could have led to more. A shame that we'll never know.
Title: Re: Randys Reaction
Post by: DB on June 19, 2011, 01:02:33 PM
Under Lerner we've bought Young, Davies, Downing, NRC and Milner all for close to the £10m mark, plus Bent of course.

Angel was very much an exception in the Ellis years.

The point that Lerner has sanctioned and funded a level of spending unheard of in the days of the previous regime is valid.

It's all relative isn't it?  We spent big on JPA, Collymore, Merson and Balaban under Ellis.

....and Stone, Watson. There is another common denominator there....
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