Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on June 09, 2011, 11:06:15 AM
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In any other reasonably sized commercial business what owner of that reasonably sized commercial business cancels an interview with a prospective managerial candidate based on the backlash of a rolling 800 people logged onto one of two main unofficial internet forums. I am all for listening to fans, but this is unprecedented and weak leadership isn't it - whatever we think of the potential incumbent. I really do miss Steve Stride and I never thought I would say that.
NB - I am sure it was my wally with the brolly comment that finally put it to bed :-)
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In any other reasonably sized commercial business what owner of that reasonably sized commercial business cancels an interview with a prospective managerial candidate based on the backlash of a rolling 800 people logged onto one of two main unofficial internet forums. I am all for listening to fans, but this is unprecedented and weak leadership isn't it - whatever we think of the potential incumbent. I really do miss Steve Stride and I never thought I would say that.
NB - I am sure it was my wally with the brolly comment that finally put it to bed :-)
I've been saying this for some time, they hold far too much store by what about 400 internet nerds say across Villa forums.
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is this ironic or do you seriously believe anyone at the club is influenced by what we say? If thats the case, how come Martinez is still in the running?
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Well McLaren has said he's had no contact with Villa at all so perhaps not weak leadership after all.
Not that listening to the concerns of your customers is weak in any way shape or form.
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Well McLaren has said he's had no contact with Villa at all so perhaps not weak leadership after all.
Not that listening to the concerns of your customers is weak in any way shape or form.
Where is Pat Murphy getting his information from - he isn't making it up is he. He is a more respected journalist. Unless it's some elabourate ruse by the club to throw him and others off the scent. The comment from McLaren is strange as if I were to guess where Murphy got his information from it was from McLaren himself or representatives through the old Derby connections. And Greg, yes I do. Read this mornings brief statement.
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Perhaps they recognise that his appoint ment would of guaranteed a massive fall in season ticket sales.
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Pat Murphy clearly has a bee in his bonnet ever since MON walked and I wouldn't put it past any journalist to either borrow a story from elsewhere or just make it up to suit.
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Well McLaren has said he's had no contact with Villa at all so perhaps not weak leadership after all.
Not that listening to the concerns of your customers is weak in any way shape or form.
Where is Pat Murphy getting his information from - he isn't making it up is he. He is a more respected journalist.
He might not be making it up, but he could well be speculating based on very, very little information.
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Some people are of course assuming that the club pay any attention to the utter bollocks that most of us write on here. I think people are giving far too much credence to what any of us might say and as for Pat Murphy suggesting it was our comments re: McClaren then that is just media bullshit of the highest order.
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Murphy is a sad, bitter man with an axe to grind as the club don't speak to him like they used to under the previous regime.
I thought the criticism of McClaren was over the top, but it's nothing that wouldn't have been said by fans of just about every other top half Premier League team in a similar position.
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I simply refuse to believe that a reporter as eminent (and Maz I am with you reference MO'N and some bile on his part) as Murphy would stake his reputation on a national radio station and say what he did yesterday if there was not some truth in it. McLaren saying that this morning is probably more about damage limitation on his part I would suggest.
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the mind boggles.."respected journalist" is two words you don't see together often. Bit like "considerate rapist", or "honest politician"
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If McLaren says there has been no contact why disbelieve him, why would he lie? same for Benitez the club says they havn't spoken to him and i believe them why would they lie? all comes down to instant news where jeournos
have to try and be in front of the game. Without the internet they wouldn't be under the pressure that makes them print rubbish.
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A theory: Murphy was saying it would be McClaren from very early on, when it turned out to be bollocks he had to have a way of covering his arse so came out with the club bowing to fan pressure story.
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Murphy is a sad, bitter man with an axe to grind as the club don't speak to him like they used to under the previous regime.
I thought the criticism of McClaren was over the top, but it's nothing that wouldn't have been said by fans of just about every other top half Premier League team in a similar position.
Whilst I agree with your first point, see my above comment. Don't miss my point re McLaren - I didnt want him as my first choice either, however, mine was more about leadership at the club, if the cancellation of the interview was as a result of the 'backlash'. Let's put this into context. There are circa 400-800 people posting (in relative secrecy) on internet message boards at any one time. There are around 33,000 people who haven't had a say on the face of it.
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A theory: Murphy was saying it would be McClaren from very early on, when it turned out to be bollocks he had to have a way of covering his arse so came out with the club bowing to fan pressure story.
It's a theory. Not one I subscribe to, it's not as if he is Oliver Holt, he has at least some more credence I think.
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Murphy is a sad, bitter man with an axe to grind as the club don't speak to him like they used to under the previous regime.
I thought the criticism of McClaren was over the top, but it's nothing that wouldn't have been said by fans of just about every other top half Premier League team in a similar position.
Exactly! Same journo's are prob the same one's who keep using the line of why didnt Randy give the money he spent on Bent to MON blah blah didnt match his ambition blah blah. In the end its the media that picked up on MacLaren using a brolley not us. Why should we be the ones who are reduced to a laughing stock by appointing a man who speaks in fake dutch accents.
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A theory: Murphy was saying it would be McClaren from very early on, when it turned out to be bollocks he had to have a way of covering his arse so came out with the club bowing to fan pressure story.
It's a theory. Not one I subscribe to, it's not as if he is Oliver Holt, he has at least some more credence I think.
ha ha ha Oliver Holt and credence in the same sentence. Ha ha Ha ha
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The media have savaged just about every England manager there's ever been. Just look at the disgraceful way they treated decent, honorable men like Graham Taylor and Bobby Robson when they were managing England. Quite frankly, while Murphy may at least be a more decent reporter thans some of the tabloid hacks, he needs to look at his colleague in the sports journalism industry before blaming the fans.
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you only have to look at the managers thread. Since Houllier left we've been linked with 10 or more managers at least, all of whom we've turned down, or have turned us down. the only thing they have in common is Journo's came up with the stories. So either Lerner has some sort of serious mental problem and changes his target every few hours or 99% of it is bullshit. I know what i think's more likely.
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Although on one hand you could say its only 300-600 people like any survey in that sense your getting a snap shot of what is considred to be the wider opinion held. The flaw to that is that you have not taken a cross section of the fan base as those of us who sit on here all day every day are not maybe "normal". You could also consider that the people who spend all their time commenting and taking in a interest in your "product" are the best informed to comment.
I can tell you stories in business where 1 blog has changed the companies position - and I can also point to governments that have been bought to their knees recently by the internet generation/users being able to express views that could not be stopped.
So its the world we now live in and the immediacy of that world that views can be gathered instantly - its what you do with them thats the key
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To be fair on this decision the fans were right.
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A theory: Murphy was saying it would be McClaren from very early on, when it turned out to be bollocks he had to have a way of covering his arse so came out with the club bowing to fan pressure story.
It's a theory. Not one I subscribe to, it's not as if he is Oliver Holt, he has at least some more credence I think.
ha ha ha Oliver Holt and credence in the same sentence. Ha ha Ha ha
I do hope you understand that I was not associating Oliver Holt with any credence whatsoever.
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A theory: Murphy was saying it would be McClaren from very early on, when it turned out to be bollocks he had to have a way of covering his arse so came out with the club bowing to fan pressure story.
It's a theory. Not one I subscribe to, it's not as if he is Oliver Holt, he has at least some more credence I think.
ha ha ha Oliver Holt and credence in the same sentence. Ha ha Ha ha
I do hope you understand that I was not associating Oliver Holt with any credence whatsoever.
Sorry Kippax, just reread your post and get what you were saying. Fair comment.
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Just check out the top 5 stories on Newsnow and see the "Blog" that seems to be taking over the whole of Villa related Internet traffic.
The Internet can indeed be a dangerous thing.
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Having just heard Murphy again on five live, it appears he is now clueless! Saying that Martinez was always the only one in the frame.
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Just check out the top 5 stories on Newsnow and see the "Blog" that seems to be taking over the whole of Villa related Internet traffic.
The Internet can indeed be a dangerous thing.
It's not the internet that is dangerous, more those that post on it.
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In any other reasonably sized commercial business what owner of that reasonably sized commercial business cancels an interview with a prospective managerial candidate based on the backlash of a rolling 800 people logged onto one of two main unofficial internet forums. I am all for listening to fans, but this is unprecedented and weak leadership isn't it - whatever we think of the potential incumbent. I really do miss Steve Stride and I never thought I would say that.
NB - I am sure it was my wally with the brolly comment that finally put it to bed :-)
Customer is ALWAYS King ............ Ignore that at your peril.
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Internet Warrior power? We have power?
Right, I would like to see Monica Bellucci in the dugout, with Alizée as fluffer for the subs' warm-ups (keeping both fans and players happy).
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Murphy is a sad, bitter man with an axe to grind as the club don't speak to him like they used to under the previous regime.
I thought the criticism of McClaren was over the top, but it's nothing that wouldn't have been said by fans of just about every other top half Premier League team in a similar position.
Whilst I agree with your first point, see my above comment. Don't miss my point re McLaren - I didnt want him as my first choice either, however, mine was more about leadership at the club, if the cancellation of the interview was as a result of the 'backlash'. Let's put this into context. There are circa 400-800 people posting (in relative secrecy) on internet message boards at any one time. There are around 33,000 people who haven't had a say on the face of it.
400-800 people posting is a pretty sizeable representative sample of ''33,000" though. doesn't take a genius to work out that if a large section of your sample posters are going into meltdown over the prospect of mclaren being appointed, then even if you did a conservatively based estimate on the likely support of that candidate, then it probably wasn't worth pursuing.
I see both sides of it. The club want to get someone who they think, or are advised would be the best man for the job. But at the same time, they can't afford to get someone in who would be perceived as a liability (regardless of his previous track record with Boro) and risk losing the supporters. My own view is that McLaren probably aint the man for the job anyway, so I wouldn't be worrying about that too much anyway.
Re: Murphy being "sad" "Bitter" and "with an axe to grind" - genuinely don't understand these comments. I've been away from UK for 4 years now, but always remember Pat Murphy being pretty well respected in Vila circles, even since Lerner came in. Have I missed something in the mean time Risso??
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Just check out the top 5 stories on Newsnow and see the "Blog" that seems to be taking over the whole of Villa related Internet traffic.
The Internet can indeed be a dangerous thing.
It's not the internet that is dangerous, more those that post on it.
It unfortunately gives a voice to those that should be have their fingers cut off at birth
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In any other reasonably sized commercial business what owner of that reasonably sized commercial business cancels an interview with a prospective managerial candidate based on the backlash of a rolling 800 people logged onto one of two main unofficial internet forums. I am all for listening to fans, but this is unprecedented and weak leadership isn't it - whatever we think of the potential incumbent. I really do miss Steve Stride and I never thought I would say that.
NB - I am sure it was my wally with the brolly comment that finally put it to bed :-)
I've been saying this for some time, they hold far too much store by what about 400 internet nerds say across Villa forums.
Which is true enough, but in this case, thank chuff so much store was placed within these cyber walls.
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Very likely this story was whipped up by McLaren's agent to put his client in a good light. Colin Gordon - once a
a nose...
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Regardless of whether this is true or not I'd hope the club had the strength and conviction to make the decision they (not the internet warrior class) think is the best one they could make.
If it is true then the fans are not even the root cause of it. The reason nobody wants McClaren is because of his image. This was not created by the fans but rather the media. For the Wally with the Brolly read the 'turnip' for an example of a decent manager tarnished by the media after drinking from the poisoned chalice that is the England job. That said as it can be argued that Sir Graham did not help himself with some eccentric selections and an inopportune documentary appearance McClaren has not helped himself with similar tactical clangers and his terrible put on accents. The man himself and in particular Murphy's colleagues in the press pack are to blame to a far greater extent that the fans.
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Re: Murphy being "sad" "Bitter" and "with an axe to grind" - genuinely don't understand these comments. I've been away from UK for 4 years now, but always remember Pat Murphy being pretty well respected in Vila circles, even since Lerner came in. Have I missed something in the mean time Risso??
To be honest i've always like Murphy, never understood why he was referred to as an Elluis stooge in some quarters or taken to task for perceived wrongs about Villa when as far as I could tell he was offering a balanced view on goings on at Villa Park.
That was until this season where perhaps because he has never gained access to Lerner and co he has used every opportunity to have a little dig at any goings on at Villa Park and notably the Villa support. At the moment he is coming accross as a fairly bitter individual with some sort of axe to grind where Villa are concerned and as a result I now think he is a knob of the highest order. His reporting of Villa approaching Martinez for the job contained barely supressed delight so fuck him.
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Just sounds like Murphy covering his own arse to me- with a bit of Lerner bashing thrown in for good measure.
But if it is true that the club considered McLame but the negative reaction around here and elsewhere put them off -then good.
You can call it weak management if you wish. But for years we were crying out for the club to take the concerns of fans on board. Can't have it both ways.
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I simply refuse to believe that a reporter as eminent (and Maz I am with you reference MO'N and some bile on his part) as Murphy would stake his reputation on a national radio station and say what he did yesterday if there was not some truth in it. McLaren saying that this morning is probably more about damage limitation on his part I would suggest.
You refuse to believe Pat Murphy would make it up, but also dismiss a statement from McClaren's representative?
Jesus Christ.
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I simply refuse to believe that a reporter as eminent (and Maz I am with you reference MO'N and some bile on his part) as Murphy would stake his reputation on a national radio station and say what he did yesterday if there was not some truth in it. McLaren saying that this morning is probably more about damage limitation on his part I would suggest.
You refuse to believe Pat Murphy would make it up, but also dismiss a statement from McClaren's representative?
Jesus Christ.
Calm down dear.
And yes, I would believe Murphy over an agent.