Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: d.boy junior(sid) on May 29, 2011, 01:44:43 AM
-
Before I go into this I was contemplating whether to put it in the transfer thread but thought setting a new topic was better.
Anyway I'm sat watching the final tonight and suddenly thought to myself what has happened to football teams now? Watching the likes of Valencia playing for united and thinking he was wigans best player yet he left for united, arguably you can't stop someone who has the chance at bigger better things but what really hit me was why can't clubs grow a back bone and keep their best players?
Last season we lost our best player of that season and judging from recent reports we are about to lose the best one from the recent season ( granted it could be a load of lies but still) making me think, why? Why are we having to lose our best players each season? Why can't we take a stand and say no he's not for sale? If a club is going to move forward surely they need to keep their best players and not just rely on buying players every transfer Market!
I know it's mostly about European football, money and trophies but look at the likes of Shane long, arguably one of the best talents of the championship and reading have held on to him for years on end, probably because the premiership teams have let him go un-noticed which to me is insane, but reading have kept hold if him. You don't see Chelsea and united losing their best players, because they have the money to keep them but to me it's stupid how football is all about money.
Look at women's football, the wages they are on aren't anywhere near the amount men are paid, where's the justification in that?
Anyway I suppose I'm just going mad over how our players always seem to have an amazing season and then leave us in the summer for "bigger things" I think if a player signs a contract they must serve it until the very end then decide on their future unless anything drastic happens in the mean time. Just my opinion and before you mention it I was over the moon when we signed sunderlands best player but from the seems of things he'll be on his way if we keep losing our better players.
-
What do you mean "You don't see Chelsea and united losing their best players..."?
Man Utd had to offload Ronaldo when he wanted out.
It happens to all teams. Why? Money. Simple.
Look at Downing. He's not willing to commit to a new contract. Are Villa within their rights to hold him to his contract? Of course. But, if he's not going to sign a new contract, his value from here on in is only going in one direction - down. So the decision has to made whether to get maximum value for him now or squeeze another season out of him and get slightly less this time next year.
I don't have an issue with the truly premium players earning a premium wage. They light the pitch up, put bums on seats, sell merchandise and, hopefully, win things for you. What I object to is reading that a clubs 3rd choice right back earns as much in a week as I do in a year. I'd very much like to know what that's all about.
-
I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the more substitutes allowed on the bench, the easier it is to keep more players happy, the bigger the squads the rich clubs can manage.
Dean Saunders left the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' for us when there were only 2 named subs because he wanted regular first team football and he wasn't going to get it there. Just wouldn't happen nowadays.
It's all about the money and as in life, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and it shows no signs of changing.
-
The sub situation again , just helps the bigger rich clubs ..
-
I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the more substitutes allowed on the bench, the easier it is to keep more players happy, the bigger the squads the rich clubs can manage.
Dean Saunders left the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' for us when there were only 2 named subs because he wanted regular first team football and he wasn't going to get it there. Just wouldn't happen nowadays.
It's all about the money and as in life, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and it shows no signs of changing.
This is absolutely right. The gradual increase in subs has done a huge amount to increase the advantage of the richer clubs to such an extent that the game often isn't really 11 v 11 any more. It needs to go back to 3 max.
-
Unless PL clubs are forced to include 3 youth / home-grown / U23 players in their matchday squad, ManUre, Chelski, Citeh etc will continue to have an abundance of international talent to choose from on any given matchday, no matter what they bleat about injuries and suspensions.
The loan system is heavily weighted in the favour of the big clubs too. Sign up any half-decent talent at the first brief sign of potential greatness, loan him off to another club and allow him to develop there before reaping the rewards later.
I'd like to see it where PL can't loan players to other PL sides or maybe even the Championship. Be interesting to see quite how many young players would be quite so eager to take the big money early in their career if it means they'd be restricted to occasional Carling Cup appaearances or League One football.
Ultimately, what's in the best interests of football in general is not in the best interests of the Premier League or the biggest clubs and so this situation will only continue to get worse until matchday squads will be clubs' entire playing squads.
It's why I'm for the most part no longer interested in club football, just Villa.
-
Aston Villa had grow a lot in last decade and still couldn't compete with the rich clubs like Manure, Liverpool. Arsenal. Chelsea, Spurs, and Man City but outcompete all the others.
-
It is what it is. Football has been 100% commoditised. Manu and their ilk are Tesco, we are Aldi and thank fuck we're not one of those nice artisan cheese shops getting buried one sky contract at a time.
-
I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the more substitutes allowed on the bench, the easier it is to keep more players happy, the bigger the squads the rich clubs can manage.
A few years ago, before the number of reseves allowed was increased to the current level, I remember Fergie exclaiming that he thought a whole team of substitutes should be allowed.
-
You're right of course that money is the main criterion re players coming and going. 'Boro is a good example in the mid-late 1990's, where players went there with no obvious likelihood of on-field success but with plenty of Gibson money.
There is another driver, though; particularly for younger players. This is the manager's credibility and - combined with that - the apparent ambition of club and chariman. We saw this with MON, with AY and SD saying - for example - that he was a key reason for joining the Villa.
What we learn from this is that RL needs to sort out the managerial issue quickly, and - if Gmac/GHou is not the going-forward position - a management team needs to be brought in that will inspire / attract talented young players who can view Villa as an important development stage in their career. We cannot compete on £££ but we may be able to make more of our reputation as a player-dveloper.
In order to do this, I think RL needs to keep GHou as a senior football presence on the management team but bring in one of the up-and-coming managers from the lower divisions - Lee Clark, Lambert, McDermott would be my short-list. Alternatively, I might consider Martinez, since I think he is highly respected as a developer of players and football-style.
But I stress, I think this all needs to happen quickly.
-
We cannot compete on £££ but we may be able to make more of our reputation as a player-dveloper.
In order to do this, I think RL needs to keep GHou as a senior football presence on the management team but bring in one of the up-and-coming managers from the lower divisions - Lee Clark, Lambert, McDermott would be my short-list. Alternatively, I might consider Martinez, since I think he is highly respected as a developer of players and football-style.
But I stress, I think this all needs to happen quickly.
EffDee, I understand what you are saying here but I have huge reservations. If we were a club from a small town or small city this would make sense, but, for me, this type of mindset and strategy is selling Villa short. The major club of the UK's second largest city seeing itself as a player developer? This is a realistic strategy for clubs from towns like Wigan and Reading (and I say that with genuine respect). For Aston Villa to see itself as that kind of club would be absolutely criminal. Spain's second largest city is Barcelona - that, surely, should be our blueprint?
-
We cannot compete on £££ but we may be able to make more of our reputation as a player-dveloper.
In order to do this, I think RL needs to keep GHou as a senior football presence on the management team but bring in one of the up-and-coming managers from the lower divisions - Lee Clark, Lambert, McDermott would be my short-list. Alternatively, I might consider Martinez, since I think he is highly respected as a developer of players and football-style.
But I stress, I think this all needs to happen quickly.
EffDee, I understand what you are saying here but I have huge reservations. If we were a club from a small town or small city this would make sense, but, for me, this type of mindset and strategy is selling Villa short. The major club of the UK's second largest city seeing itself as a player developer? This is a realistic strategy for clubs from towns like Wigan and Reading (and I say that with genuine respect). For Aston Villa to see itself as that kind of club would be absolutely criminal. Spain's second largest city is Barcelona - that, surely, should be our blueprint?
And that's exactly how Barca have succeeeded - by growing their own / getting young players and developing them.
Given the disparity of wealth in the Premiership it is actually the only way ... and - you know what? - I do not envy Chelski or Citeh their new-found wealth. Their money-based strategy makes me want to chuck up.
-
We couldn't do what barca do - kids play football there like they go to church - its expected. you don't think manu with 18 zillions fans and the potential thousands of kids who would die to play for them haven't got a youth academy working overtime and yet its hasen't been exactly a conveyor belt of young talent in recent times. and lets face it if you could do it, you would, because it would save you a fortune. Even the likes of giggs, beckham and the nevilles were nicked from other clubs. Its a different culture from spain, most kids today who used to be out playing football are on their PS3's or similar. I think the most we can hope for is to continue bringing throught decent youth players with the hope one or two will make it while the rest can be flogged off to lower league teams, but there's no way we're going to get 7/8 world class youth footballers at once however much we throw at it.
-
@d.boy junior(sid):
The Premiership is obliterated in the concept of player transfers and making money, for me the difference between Barcelona and Manchester Utd the other night was obvious for all to see.
Man U have become a product of the Premiership, as have Arsenal and Chelsea and Man City are going the same way, the truly great Man Utd sides where by and large home grown talent or UK grounded players, Becks, Giggs, Scholes the Neville's, Ferdinand, Kean, Fletcher, with a few inclusions from overseas.
Compare that to Barca and you are looking at a club proud of it academy and the vibe that goes through the team, its not just a club or team its like 11 brothers, a family of brethren.
Fergie seems to have forgotten what makes a great team IMO, that's why he had such a rye smile on his face at the end of the game when he walked up to Pep G, he was looking at an image of himself years before, IMO Fergie needs to get some bread and butter players in and do what he does best, make those players much better and forge them into a team.
Actually Villa need to do the same come to think of it.
-
We are getting much better with youth development but still long way compared to Barcelona. I hope GH stay on and improve our blueprint if he can't manage long term.
-
We couldn't do what barca do - kids play football there like they go to church - its expected. you don't think manu with 18 zillions fans and the potential thousands of kids who would die to play for them haven't got a youth academy working overtime and yet its hasen't been exactly a conveyor belt of young talent in recent times. and lets face it if you could do it, you would, because it would save you a fortune. Even the likes of giggs, beckham and the nevilles were nicked from other clubs. Its a different culture from spain, most kids today who used to be out playing football are on their PS3's or similar. I think the most we can hope for is to continue bringing throught decent youth players with the hope one or two will make it while the rest can be flogged off to lower league teams, but there's no way we're going to get 7/8 world class youth footballers at once however much we throw at it.
It's not going to happen overnight, for sure, but it is actually the only way of bettering yourself other than getting a very rich (multi-billions, I mean) benefactor. The funds we earn from the Premiership, the TV deals and the commercial sources are insufficient in today's market to move into a position where we can compete disproportionately well to move into the top 4 ("money heaven").
So, we need to grow talent and sell it for more than we spent on it = making money as well as feeding the first team.
We are attracting some good young talent: the challenge is being able to shape them into little stars capable of hold their own in the Premiership rather than the Championship.
-
Doing away with the loan system - or at least not being able to loan players between Premier League clubs would mean the rich clubs would find it a little more difficult to stockpile players and keep them happy.
-
Hi, I started a similar thread and was shouted down by the animals for daring to be different. It is clear to me that we are one of 8 largest clubs in the UK, always have been - but there's the problem - there are only 4 spots that carry the massive rewards of the Chumps League. I'm not saying we shouldnt try, but setting out to compete with Man City and Chelsea by spending isnt the way to do it. I believe Villa should persue the following strategy :
1) Set out to win something - A Cup of any kind. Maybe put that ahead of points in the league some weeks.
2) Make European Football a realistic goal - granted away to Sparta Prague aint Barca but it certainly beats not being there at all.
3) Make local and young British players our specialism. Yes a couple of big name players (Darren thankyou) but lots of youth.
4) Make the offering to fans the best in the League - consistent low prices and offers to fill the ground.
5) Replace the North Stand and keep it cheap as chips. Keep the Trinity for the toffs and the rest priced to fill the ground.
6) Get a coach who values attractive and attacking football.
7) Re-instate Acorns on our shirts. That is what we should stand for ; part of our community and contributing to it.
Make the above clear as the DNA of our team and then do it all to the best of the board's ability. I genuinely believe if the board was honest with the fans - we cant afford to compete with Man U but we wont rip you off and you will see great football then people would be proud of it.