Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Tuscans on May 27, 2011, 09:13:31 PM
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Just been listening to Talksport and a correspondant from Birmingham was discussing the 10 players leaving...and then mentioned he has heard Ashley Young is just days away from joining Man.Utd. Ferguson moves quickly in the transfer market and thinks the deal will be finalised just days after the champions league final.
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Good. It'd be nice for one of our players who wants to play in the CL and win things actually go to a capable club and not a circus (like Barry and Milner).
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Barry and Milner will be playing CL football now.
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They will be now, unless they're replaced. They weren't when they left.
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They have achieved what they left to do, it's fact, I dont like it anymore than you do.
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They have achieved what they left to do, it's fact, I dont like it anymore than you do.
Fuckers.
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They have achieved what they left to do, it's fact, I dont like it anymore than you do.
Doesn't bother me in that sense as much as I thought it would. Barry leaving because of his urgent desire to play in the CL, then going to City who weren't any closer than us at the time was my issue. Milner I suppose had a better reason for heading to City.
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Barry and Milner will be playing CL football now.
Milner will be watching Champions League football you mean.
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They have achieved what they left to do, it's fact, I dont like it anymore than you do.
Doesn't bother me in that sense as much as I thought it would. Barry leaving because of his urgent desire to play in the CL, then going to City who weren't any closer than us at the time was my issue. Milner I suppose had a better reason for heading to City.
They're slightly closer now than we are though.
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It's a fact of life for us now sadly. We get good players in, make them even better and sell them to the big boys. What a sad fact.
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I hope this is true, don't get me wrong I'd love him to stay, but I think we all know he's off so lets just get it done as quickly as possible and get a replacement in.
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They have achieved what they left to do, it's fact, I dont like it anymore than you do.
Doesn't bother me in that sense as much as I thought it would. Barry leaving because of his urgent desire to play in the CL, then going to City who weren't any closer than us at the time was my issue. Milner I suppose had a better reason for heading to City.
They're slightly closer now than we are though.
Obviously... but not at the time. Which was my point.
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They have achieved what they left to do, it's fact, I dont like it anymore than you do.
Doesn't bother me in that sense as much as I thought it would. Barry leaving because of his urgent desire to play in the CL, then going to City who weren't any closer than us at the time was my issue. Milner I suppose had a better reason for heading to City.
They're slightly closer now than we are though.
Obviously... but not at the time. Which was my point.
Well it wouldn't take a genius to realize who would get there sooner...us or the richest club in the world.
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Someone still listens to Talksport?
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Someone still listens to Talksport?
I did yesterday for once as Brian Little was on!
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It's a fact of life for us now sadly. We get good players in, make them even better and sell them to the big boys. What a sad fact.
It's a fact of life for about 89 league clubs, and has been for years. When did we last see off an approach for one of our players?
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Norm Crandles, how right you look like being.
Its going to be one of those windows where we count the quality out and be amazed at the alternatives McAllister brings in.
Be interesting to see if General K can PR this sale away.
If it happens of course.
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As others have said it's happened for years,it started with Gerry Hitchens,Bruce Rioch,David Platt,Dwight Yorke ..........
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It's a fact of life for us now sadly. We get good players in, make them even better and sell them to the big boys. What a sad fact.
It's a fact of life for about 89 league clubs, and has been for years. When did we last see off an approach for one of our players?
Well that is the point, If we want to play with the big boys we need to come up with a strategy that we are not reliant on a few stars supported by mediocrity but a siuation where a group of players come together believing that they can achieve something wearing a Villa shirt.
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It's a fact of life for us now sadly. We get good players in, make them even better and sell them to the big boys. What a sad fact.
It's a fact of life for about 89 league clubs, and has been for years. When did we last see off an approach for one of our players?
When MoN and Randy saw off Liverpool's approach for Barry.
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It's a fact of life for us now sadly. We get good players in, make them even better and sell them to the big boys. What a sad fact.
It's a fact of life for about 89 league clubs, and has been for years. When did we last see off an approach for one of our players?
When MoN and Randy saw off Liverpool's approach for Barry.
But not Man Citeh's
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It's a fact of life for us now sadly. We get good players in, make them even better and sell them to the big boys. What a sad fact.
It's a fact of life for about 89 league clubs, and has been for years. When did we last see off an approach for one of our players?
When MoN and Randy saw off Liverpool's approach for Barry.
You mean the one they couldn't afford?
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Why is it (as someone pointed out in a different post) that Everton seem able to hold onto their best players year in year out (Lescott excepted). Is it because of the team mentality and the settled atmosphere at the club or because their best players aren't individually that good? I'm honestly not sure which it is.
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It's a fact of life for us now sadly. We get good players in, make them even better and sell them to the big boys. What a sad fact.
It's a fact of life for about 89 league clubs, and has been for years. When did we last see off an approach for one of our players?
When MoN and Randy saw off Liverpool's approach for Barry.
You mean the one they couldn't afford?
I was just answering the question posed.
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There is no loyalty in football, cricket or rugby, any upward move is garnished with the lure of the lira and success.
I wish that once in a while a footballer would pay cursory attention to the grass roots, or their current employer instead of the big time charley approach,
But I am on a fools errand
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Why is it (as someone pointed out in a different post) that Everton seem able to hold onto their best players year in year out (Lescott excepted). Is it because of the team mentality and the settled atmosphere at the club or because their best players aren't individually that good? I'm honestly not sure which it is.
this is a good point, i think that Everton has a spirit that enables them to punch above there weight. we have got primidonas like Young Downing, old pros not that bothered Dunne Collins and on big money, we have suffered with too many players that dont get it.
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If he's days away from joining them are they abroad or is he abroad? They're got the CL final soon so really he could just wait there for them. Or are they just keeping an equal distance away from him and he's gradually cutting the distance because he's using faster transport? I really need to know.
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Theye are in The Landmark Hotel opposite Marylebone Station. he is in Stevanege but will be at the game tomorrow
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It's a fact of life for us now sadly. We get good players in, make them even better and sell them to the big boys. What a sad fact.
It's a fact of life for about 89 league clubs, and has been for years. When did we last see off an approach for one of our players?
Other teams do it, that is true, but while people quote the example of Spurs, I can't remember the last time they did it three years on the bounce
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There is no loyalty in football, cricket or rugby, any upward move is garnished with the lure of the lira and success.
You know, I think Ashley has been loyal.
I think he would be staying if Villa were playing Champions League football next season.
We are where we are.
Where we are isn't where top players aspire to be, so we are a stepping stone - a very good stepping stone.
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He's been about as loyal as a dog is with a bone until someone walks into the room with a plate of meat. Fair enough really. I don't actually blame him as he's performed relatively well and its a two way thing. Clubs dump players if they don't rate them. Downing on the other hand who's given us probably 10 months reasonable service before seemingly trying to jump ship is another matter
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Remember that when AY joined us, his Dad was his agent and he was quite clear that his development would be better served with MoN at VP rather than at Sperms or the other suitors.
Once he had employed a "normal" agent, the writing was on the wall unless we became CL contenders.
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I'm in Perth Australia so I'm surrounded by ManU "fans" (I'm sure some of the think that Manchester is a suburb of London!) anyway NOT a single one here that I have spoken to rates him or wants ManU to sign him, if fact one for my sins that I have to work with says if it happens in his opinion it will be the worst signing in years.
Bit harsh and I know it means nothing because if Fegie has his plans none of the supporters are going to stop him nor should they with his record, so I'm wondering because I guess most of us have no choice but to rub shoulders with the glory hunting heathen red scum (can you tell that I don't like them?) what the general feeling amongst them is about possibly signing Young?
My guess is "were United and we can take what we want, Villa who?" attitude.
If he leave I have no problem with him joining them and after what we have witnessed for the last 2 seasons I honestly think he will struggle holding a place down there, good luck to him and as long as we get a good price for a player with 1 year left on his contract then we move on.
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I'm in Perth Australia so I'm surrounded by ManU "fans" (I'm sure some of the think that Manchester is a suburb of London!) anyway NOT a single one here that I have spoken to rates him or wants ManU to sign him, if fact one for my sins that I have to work with says if it happens in his opinion it will be the worst signing in years.
Bit harsh and I know it means nothing because if Fegie has his plans none of the supporters are going to stop him nor should they with his record, so I'm wondering because I guess most of us have no choice but to rub shoulders with the glory hunting heathen red scum (can you tell that I don't like them?) what the general feeling amongst them is about possibly signing Young?
My guess is "were United and we can take what we want, Villa who?" attitude.
If he leave I have no problem with him joining them and after what we have witnessed for the last 2 seasons I honestly think he will struggle holding a place down there, good luck to him and as long as we get a good price for a player with 1 year left on his contract then we move on.
I second all that, he is at times a good player for Villa, but I feel its another case of little fish in a big pond syndrome if he joins United. I have no doubts that they will make him into a better player but I would take Nani or Valencia ahead of Young everyday. I feel the whole poilicy of buying British under MON is going to bite us in the arse as all the other teams will want our English players to make up the "home grown" rule....exactly why Man.City bought Barry & Milner really.
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I'm in Perth Australia so I'm surrounded by ManU "fans" (I'm sure some of the think that Manchester is a suburb of London!) anyway NOT a single one here that I have spoken to rates him or wants ManU to sign him, if fact one for my sins that I have to work with says if it happens in his opinion it will be the worst signing in years.
Bit harsh and I know it means nothing because if Fegie has his plans none of the supporters are going to stop him nor should they with his record, so I'm wondering because I guess most of us have no choice but to rub shoulders with the glory hunting heathen red scum (can you tell that I don't like them?) what the general feeling amongst them is about possibly signing Young?
My guess is "were United and we can take what we want, Villa who?" attitude.
If he leave I have no problem with him joining them and after what we have witnessed for the last 2 seasons I honestly think he will struggle holding a place down there, good luck to him and as long as we get a good price for a player with 1 year left on his contract then we move on.
Ha, i remember they said the same thing when they signed Yorke. They didnt do too badly out of him did they, the wankers?
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Looking at his performances in the last year, there is no comparison between the talents of Yorke and Young. Im honestly surprised that Fergie wants him. Unless of course there is something in him that he hasnt been showing in a Villa shirt of late, which if there is tells you all about his attitude towards us.
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My guess is "were United and we can take what we want, Villa who?" attitude.
What's most annoying about that is that they're probably right.
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Looking at his performances in the last year, there is no comparison between the talents of Yorke and Young. Im honestly surprised that Fergie wants him. Unless of course there is something in him that he hasnt been showing in a Villa shirt of late, which if there is tells you all about his attitude towards us.
I think we might just find that out to be true.
As to whether that's the difference between knowing you are the un-droppable fixture in a middle-ranking team, or the renewed aspiration of proving yourself amongst better players and for a manager who doesn't let you rest on your laurels, is a matter for the sports psychologists.
Since we all know he's off, if a deal is to be concluded as soon as the transfer window is opened, I think that is in the best interests of all concerned. As the Barry and Milner sagas have highlighted, the last thing the club needs is to return for pre-season and have a will they/won't they question mark hanging over one of the integral members of the squad.
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Yep, anyone wanting out, get rid asap and lets get properly organised for the season ahead this time. Proper annoyed about Downing, not many clubs would have bought a player for 12 million with a broken bloody leg. Arse.
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I will be sad to see him leave but when a player wants to leave then I think it is better to let them we will survive without him good luck to him is what I say.
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im not overly fussed about him going if this is true, as he has been on a rapid decline for two years now both in terms of play and attitude, however, i wish him well, and will give him a good response when he returns...
despite the poor form antics over the past 2 years, before that he was a very exciting player who contributed a lot to our team...
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Poor antics? Rapid decline? Utter bollocks. He is simply a player who is not clinical in his crosses, free kicks and shots but his commitment is second to none and he creates loads of chances, and always scores a decent amount of goals.
Fergie will have him as a winger where his is best, rather than an attacking midlefielder.
Will be a major loss to Villa, as was Milner. Another terible season awaits if we lose him and Downing. We won't be able to attract players of their calibre unless we brought in a top class manager.
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you are entitled to your opinion, as i am mine...
i have been saying the same thing for two years now, and have been very underwhelmed with youngs performances, and his general attitude....
i appreciate that not all will agree...
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Why is it so hard for fans to accept players will jump at the chance to join clubs like Utd, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal ?
Why stay at a club bumbling from one crisis to the next, often left in a stasis while the owners prevaricate when they can be part of a club probably on more money, who don't just promise but achieve things. Clubs full of drive, ambition, and present day success.
Its not nice for us fans but it could be worse, ask the fans suppoting Ridgewell, davies and Gardner who were all once 'stars' at Villa too.
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you are entitled to your opinion, as i am mine...
i have been saying the same thing for two years now, and have been very underwhelmed with youngs performances, and his general attitude....
i appreciate that not all will agree...
I agree with you Pablo........He has got 10 bookings this season @ least 8 of those are for diving or dissent and that proves his poor attitude
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I have to agree with Myf, he has been a excellent player with a very, very good attitude on the pitch. Always gives 100% and would like to know how many og our goals have come from him in his time here.
If he's off the sooner the better for Villa though.
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I thought he was going to sit down and talk with Randy and Paul once the season had finished must have been the shortest conversation in history ::)
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I thought he was going to sit down and talk with Randy and Paul once the season had finished must have been the shortest conversation in history ::)
"Bye."
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Other clubs seem to be able to grow after losing their best players,Spurs and to a certain extent Wigan,having sold their better players, can find replacements and build the team up again. GH must've have known for ages that Young wasn't gonna sign a new contract,so he's probably got targets already out there.
This doesn't seem as bad as losing Milner as for ages most of us knew Young would be on his way.
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I'll miss the little bugger, bloody cracking player on his day and when he was having a bad game you could still count on him to do more than his fair share of the dirty work.
Our main fault was playing too much through him, I think it cost us in 08/09 as we had no plan B other than put it out left and ask Ash to stick it in the box. When Milner grew we benefitted from it IMO.
Anyway, I thought he'd end up at Liverpool (right footed, left sided forward from Watford part 2), but with Owen leaving Man Utd and their #7 being free, and Giggs moving central it all just seems to fit.
I expect he'll do well there, although it may take a while and I doubt he'll ever be a genuine first teamer, but on the counter-attack away from home in the big games he'll be absolutely invaluable.
Good luck, Ashley!
As for us, improve by getting N'Zogbia - scores more goals from open play and better off the front man. Sweet.
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My guess is "were United and we can take what we want, Villa who?" attitude.
What's most annoying about that is that they're probably right.
They're definitely right, which is why we move him on as quick as possible and reinvest that money as wisely as possible.
Replace our Carrick, Keane and Berbatov with our own Huddlestone, Modric and Bale.
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Will be a major loss to Villa, as was Milner.
Is absolutely correct.
People have very short memories. Admittedly hasn't had his best season but still BY FAR our most creative, inventive and dangerous player. He will be very difficult , but not impossible, to replace.
I predict that once settled by Christmas, he will become a key player and crowd favourite at United.
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I'm surprised he's stayed as long as he has, and at least we'll get a good fee for him. Better him leave now than in 12 months for nothing.
Albrighton has had enough experience this season to step it up next season and I think he'll do well.
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Who could we realistically get in to replace Young?
Charles N'Zogbia and Matt Jarvis are the only names I can think of at the moment. Unfortunately they're not a patch on Young.
David Bentley's an other option (put's on a tin hat and hides)
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Youngy now 8 to 1 on to join Man U with SkyBet - the cats out the bag somewhere.
If this means we get 20 million to spend elsewhere on players like Matt Jarvis and then Marc Albrighton gets more starts next season good luck to him. I didn't enjoy the whinging or the diving and some of the crap he served up from set pieces this season but he is undoubtedly a talented player who should be playing in the Champions League.
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David Bentley's an other option (put's on a tin hat and hides)
I'm currently in Ibiza and David Bentley was in a bar here last night buying everyone shots and and stumbling all over the place pissed as a fart. After a while he started insulting a few people and giving it the biggun. A prime wanker. No thanks.
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David Bentley's an other option (put's on a tin hat and hides)
I'm currently in Ibiza and David Bentley was in a bar here last night buying everyone shots and and stumbling all over the place pissed as a fart. After a while he started insulting a few people and giving it the biggun. A prime wanker. No thanks.
By contrast, a mate of mine was on holiday somewhere a few years ago (can't think where now) and Kevin Phillips was in the same hotel and got chatting to him by the pool bar and said he was a really nice down to earth chap.
As for Bentley, he's another player who seems happy with the money and not how his carreer is going. He'd be another waste of wages and we've had enought of those i think.
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Yeah all the best Ash as it seems you are definitely going now - thanks for the memories and I for one will not be booing on your return to VP. Be nice if you don't celebrate either when you inevitably score against us !!
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Yeah all the best Ash as it seems you are definitely going now - thanks for the memories and I for one will not be booing on your return to VP. Be nice if you don't celebrate either when you inevitably score against us !!
When he returns to VP with his new club and starts going down too easily to win free kicks or a penalty, you'll be booing with the rest of us!
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I'm in Perth Australia so I'm surrounded by ManU "fans" (I'm sure some of the think that Manchester is a suburb of London!) anyway NOT a single one here that I have spoken to rates him or wants ManU to sign him, if fact one for my sins that I have to work with says if it happens in his opinion it will be the worst signing in years.
Bit harsh and I know it means nothing because if Fegie has his plans none of the supporters are going to stop him nor should they with his record, so I'm wondering because I guess most of us have no choice but to rub shoulders with the glory hunting heathen red scum (can you tell that I don't like them?) what the general feeling amongst them is about possibly signing Young?
My guess is "were United and we can take what we want, Villa who?" attitude.
If he leave I have no problem with him joining them and after what we have witnessed for the last 2 seasons I honestly think he will struggle holding a place down there, good luck to him and as long as we get a good price for a player with 1 year left on his contract then we move on.
Ha, i remember they said the same thing when they signed Yorke. They didnt do too badly out of him did they, the wankers?
Young was never in Yorkes league ..
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David Bentley's an other option (put's on a tin hat and hides)
I'm currently in Ibiza and David Bentley was in a bar here last night buying everyone shots and and stumbling all over the place pissed as a fart. After a while he started insulting a few people and giving it the biggun. A prime wanker. No thanks.
Ill be there Tuesday. will you be still there ?
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I think he'll struggle to get games there unless his form dramatically improves. A good player but not half the player Yorke was.
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It is sad to see him leave, but I reckon we will get a better replacement for 4 millions less than Ashley fee. Perhaps the Ivory coast player we were linked.
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I think he'll struggle to get games there unless his form dramatically improves. A good player but not half the player Yorke was.
Wishful thinking, he's more than good enough.
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Not sure Chris. With their rotation policy i think he could struggle to get any consistency which comes with playing week in week out. I can certainly see him annoying sections of the manc's support.
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He is good enough, and as I say I don't begrudge him going to Man Utd. He's given us good service, and he's going to the Champions so that's fair enough.
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I think he'll struggle to get games there unless his form dramatically improves. A good player but not half the player Yorke was.
Wishful thinking, he's more than good enough.
Totally agree... unfortunately!
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One things for sure, he'll get more protection from referees when he's playing for Man Utd.
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Imagine how many penalties he'll get for them!
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Not sure Chris. With their rotation policy i think he could struggle to get any consistency which comes with playing week in week out. I can certainly see him annoying sections of the manc's support.
I go along with that. On his day he will be good enough easily but last seasons form overall wasn't one of consistency. Also, when he starts his knee dance I can see the crowd there getting irritated with his antics.
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Not sure Chris. With their rotation policy i think he could struggle to get any consistency which comes with playing week in week out. I can certainly see him annoying sections of the manc's support.
I go along with that. On his day he will be good enough easily but last seasons form overall wasn't one of consistency. Also, when he starts his knee dance I can see the crowd there getting irritated with his antics.
If they put up with Ronaldo's antics in his first season and Nani's in every single game they'll cope with Ash. I also think his work rate will mean that he'll be forgiven the odd bit of poor form. I'm interested to see where they'll play him.
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I hope this is true, don't get me wrong I'd love him to stay, but I think we all know he's off so lets just get it done as quickly as possible and get a replacement in.
Think this is the most valid statement, seems like forever he's been leaving the club, his 1 foot seems perpetually out the door, I'm sure this is just the start, convinced Downing will be next, but lets face it we only want players that are prepared to give all for the Villa cause.
"The king is dead", "long live the king...... Agbonlahor, at least he wants to play for Villa.
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Sometimes a move can improve a player. On a bigger stage where he is not the main star like at United he will calm down and try to do less.
This can only a good thing for Young. I can really see the move being the making of him as it will improve his game and probably cement a spot in the England team. It's not like the Milner or Barry situations where they have moved to City which was a much smaller step forward and into a situation where they are merely a stop gap until a better player can come along. Man United are buying him for a reason and that is to place him in the new team they are building. We may have begrudged Barry and Milner their moves but we shouldn't do so here as he is making a big step up.
I'll miss the little sod as much as he could irritate me. He's given us four decent years and has done some delightful things. So I wish him well. Until the little c*** wins a penalty in front of the Holte for them.
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Not sure Chris. With their rotation policy i think he could struggle to get any consistency which comes with playing week in week out. I can certainly see him annoying sections of the manc's support.
I go along with that. On his day he will be good enough easily but last seasons form overall wasn't one of consistency. Also, when he starts his knee dance I can see the crowd there getting irritated with his antics.
If they put up with Ronaldo's antics in his first season and Nani's in every single game they'll cope with Ash. I also think his work rate will mean that he'll be forgiven the odd bit of poor form. I'm interested to see where they'll play him.
On the wing, where else? Ferguson isn't stupid, and the chances of Young taking the place of either Rooney, Hernandez or Berbabatov up front have to be remote.
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Be hard to replace him, but players come & go. I think we have got the better years out of him.
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I don't think he's good enough for Man U and I'm not the kind to hold a grudge against our players moving on. I thought Milner and Barry were excellent players who would go on to have success and they have. They've already won silverware and may one day get to lift the premiership or win the champions league.
Young, though, for me is just different. I really don't think he's good enough. I think he's good for us and we are good for him. I can see him moving on and feeling the pressure, a bit like when Darren Bent moved to Spurs for big money.
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He's a better player than Valencia and you cannot begrudge him moving there. We will get a good price for him and the opportunity to replace him with somebody just as good, in my opinion, in N’Zogbia.
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Quite honestly once he leaves Villa I couldn't give a hoot if he never gets of the bench at whatever respective club he goes to, he will use whatever he has in his locker to bury us given the slightest opportunity, and actually I agree with villaforlife, personally I think he will be warming the bench far more than he will be actually playing.
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Not sure Chris. With their rotation policy i think he could struggle to get any consistency which comes with playing week in week out. I can certainly see him annoying sections of the manc's support.
I go along with that. On his day he will be good enough easily but last seasons form overall wasn't one of consistency. Also, when he starts his knee dance I can see the crowd there getting irritated with his antics.
If they put up with Ronaldo's antics in his first season and Nani's in every single game they'll cope with Ash. I also think his work rate will mean that he'll be forgiven the odd bit of poor form. I'm interested to see where they'll play him.
On the wing, where else? Ferguson isn't stupid, and the chances of Young taking the place of either Rooney, Hernandez or Berbabatov up front have to be remote.
Probably but I can also see him being used as an attacking midfield player and being developed as a replacement for the role that Giggs does now (not shagging c list celebs).
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Shagging C listers would be a step up from greasing his weasel on the interweb.
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He's a better player than Valencia and you cannot begrudge him moving there. We will get a good price for him and the opportunity to replace him with somebody just as good, in my opinion, in N’Zogbia.
I'd agree with you on N'Zogbia. I'm not too sure there's much in it between Ash and Valencia though.
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I agree with you Pablo........He has got 10 bookings this season @ least 8 of those are for diving or dissent and that proves his poor attitude
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However MU are rarely punished for these types of things so this will also work in thier favour...
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Get in Sebastian Larsson on a free, will be on half of what Young was on. Try and nab Joey Barton for peanuts and you have twice the player Reo-Coker is. See if we can make a bid for Scott Dann and pinch Shay Given and I dont think we have a bad team there.
Given
Walker (loan) Collins Dann L.Young
Makoun Delph
Larsson Downing
Barton
Bent
...im my opinion thats just a few additions that would be gettable and would lower our wage bill further. Throw in 1 or 2 and give more game time Albrighton, Bannan, Clarke and Delfounso and I dont think we'll have a poor a season as the last one.
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I don't think Larsson could be anything more than a squad player and we need better to replace Ash.
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I think Valencia's form since he came back from injury has been much better than Ashley's this season.
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I don't think Ashley will like Sir Alex's management but Sir Alex will get him performing better than 3 years ago at Villa.
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Well at least our best players are now leaving to go to good clubs to win things rather then Middlesvilla.
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If he goes to Man U this summer, I can see him ending up at Tottingham in maybe 12 months- after a season of being in and out of the side. That might still be enough to snaffle a medal or two though.
Personally, I'd rather we said 'foreign deal this summer, or you see out your contract.' If he values his England place and all the rest of it, what else could he do?I hate the way those Manc scabs think they have a divine right to cherry pick other clubs best players.
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If he goes to Man U this summer, I can see him ending up at Tottingham in maybe 12 months- after a season of being in and out of the side. That might still be enough to snaffle a medal or two though.
Personally, I'd rather we said 'foreign deal this summer, or you see out your contract.' If he values his England place and all the rest of it, what else could he do?I hate the way those Manc scabs think they have a divine right to cherry pick other clubs best players.
But it isn't cherry picking as such. And I guess Sunderland fans might be moaning about us getting Bent in a similar way to us moaning about the last two summers moves and this potential one.
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The Bent deal wasn't typical though.
Certainly we haven't raided them for their star players in the past (well I suppose Sorensen and McCann, but they did actually want/need to sell as they had just gone down).
First Yorke and now Young. With Barry and Milner going to the other Manc lot. It's as if we're a finishing school or summat.
I understand the economics of the deal, I'd just rather we didn't sell to that lot (or the Redscouse/Tottingham).
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After tonight, I can see Ferguson looking for somebody better than Ashley. Either that or he'll give up ever trying to win the Champions League again.
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Like whom?
It's not like he can go and buy Messi or Villa.
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The Bent deal wasn't typical though.
Certainly we haven't raided them for their star players in the past (well I suppose Sorensen and McCann, but they did actually want/need to sell as they had just gone down).
First Yorke and now Young. With Barry and Milner going to the other Manc lot. It's as if we're a finishing school or summat.
I understand the economics of the deal, I'd just rather we didn't sell to that lot (or the Redscouse/Tottingham).
You do realise there has been 13 years between those deals.
The only way we can stop these deals happening is to win things consistently and as Ronaldo (and almost Tevez and Rooney) showed, even that isn't a guarantee of keeping your best players. Until then we will have to resign ourselves to the fact of being a "finishing school or summat".
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Get in Sebastian Larsson on a free, will be on half of what Young was on. Try and nab Joey Barton for peanuts and you have twice the player Reo-Coker is. See if we can make a bid for Scott Dann and pinch Shay Given and I dont think we have a bad team there.
Given
Walker (loan) Collins Dann L.Young
Makoun Delph
Larsson Downing
Barton
Bent
No not Larsson and Barton. One is a complete donkey and the other one a complete thug and neither good enough to improve our team.
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The issue is is the fact that our best players don't feel we can compete... Barry, Milner, Young and Downing... all bought into the 5 year plan and now are all off to compete for honours, which we have fallen back from competing for.
That is what has to be addressed.
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I really don't think he'll become a top player for them. I know a few Utd fans and they'd have Nani and Valencia in their side over Ash, any day of the week. I agree too. He's hit the skids in the last couple of years, maybe even 3 years. This season has been mediocre by his standards, and that's being generous.
I'd have thought Fergie would have a player on the way up. Saying that, Ash could well flourish. Potentially he's better than Valencia. But he's 26 now. He's got time left, but he's not gonna get much better Imo. I think, sadly, he'll underwhelm.
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I don't know how he will play. But Ash's best perfomances this season has mostly been in an England shirt. It makes me think he still can play well and has chosen not for us or he likes it better when the game is not just all about him as the main attack so he can play naturally as he isn't marked as much.
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"The king is dead", "long live the king...... Agbonlahor, at least he wants to play for Villa.
I was thinking this might be the key to our success. Not Gabby exactly but to maintain any longterm momentum we might need to play one or two more home grown players even if they're not anything more than premiership standard. They're less likely to want to leave plus the fact that they're free, well cheap, means we can spend more elsewhere.
For example, Ridgewell probably isn't quite up to scratch but had we played him left back we could have saved 6-8m on Warnock which could have been invested elsewhere.
It's a risky strategy and will require additional investment and faith in the youth set-up but ultimately if you poach a Young (from watford) or a Downing (from boro) then realistically we cannot be surprised when they're poached from us.
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Like whom?
It's not like he can go and buy Messi or Villa.
Hazard at Lille?
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I think Fergie will buy more than just Young though. Nani, Young and Valencia would see him covered wide. Berbatov and Owen are likely to go, so that would leave him lighter up front. If he signs Sneijder, Young and Nasri say - the 3 he seems to want the most, then he is simply replacing Giggs, Scholes and the forwards with younger models.
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He need to finish the Beckham's youth generation and Van De Saar as well, and replace them with new models.
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Also it will have occurred to Fergie that if he plays Ash on the wing and the opposition stick two defenders on him, this will leave one of his other attacking players free. It never seemed to work that way for us, but there you go.
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Think Ashley young will be a big hit at utd if he goes, better player than Valencia and nani and will improve no end in a quality side,
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Sir Alex got Valencia scoring, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't improve Ash's game also, and those improvements would happen just from being given a concrete role and being brow-beaten into being more direct again.
Getting Ash in still won't solve Sir Alex's problems in central midfield though which is the real issue.
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Berbatov and Bent would be perfect. Straight swap pleaasssee
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Sir Alex got Valencia scoring, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't improve Ash's game also, and those improvements would happen just from being given a concrete role and being brow-beaten into being more direct again.
Getting Ash in still won't solve Sir Alex's problems in central midfield though which is the real issue.
I think you will find he was scoring for Wigan and playing well until Manure's interest in him grew and then he went off the boil for the rest of his stay. Ring any bells.
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Valencia went from less than 1 in 12 to more than 1 in 7 in the transfer, which is pretty significant. Ash is already at more than 1 in 5 with room to improve as long as he can take instruction.
Would anyone consider taking Valencia in a swap? I wouldn't.
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Valencia would be a great signing but fergie will never sell
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Valencia always looks distinctly average to me.
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Like whom?
It's not like he can go and buy Messi or Villa.
like Sanchez
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Yup, that would certainly be better than Young.
But given that he has a goalkeeper, an entire central midfield and potentially a striker to replace as well as getting another winger in he might decide that he's better off spending £15m on Young rather than £40m on Sanchez.
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The issue is is the fact that our best players don't feel we can compete... Barry, Milner, Young and Downing... all bought into the 5 year plan and now are all off to compete for honours, which we have fallen back from competing for.
That is what has to be addressed.
Spot on. Bottom line is that these guys were more or less promised honours at some point during their careers for Villa.
That was the deal when MON took over, 5 year plan, build the team and improve progressively until we win something. MON decided that losing Barry and then Milner was enough to derail that, and jumped ship. Now Downing and Young have realised their ambitions aren't going to be fulfilled here either and are leaving.
By a combination of happenstance and poor/mis-management, AVFC is slowly sliding into irrelevance. You can hardly blame anyone for getting out.
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But yet we spent 28m on the England number 9.
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But yet we spent 28m on the England number 9.
But we spent the entire season in the bottom half of the table and got knocked out of one cup by Blues and the other using a B team. If I didn't support Villa and I was one of them I'd want to leave too.
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Sir Alex got Valencia scoring, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't improve Ash's game also, and those improvements would happen just from being given a concrete role and being brow-beaten into being more direct again.
Getting Ash in still won't solve Sir Alex's problems in central midfield though which is the real issue.
Valencia's goal tally improved simply because he played for a much much better team than his previous club. Even Berbatov become a prolific scorer at OT. Ash will improve because Fergie will lay the law down and get him playing to his strength not just do what he wants to do on the pitch as with us.
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But yet we spent 28m on the England number 9.
I thought we spent £18m with add-ons?
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After tonight, I can see Ferguson looking for somebody better than Ashley. Either that or he'll give up ever trying to win the Champions League again.
I am with you Mark as exactly the same thought has crossed my head today. If United had won Fergie would have said OK I just need a bit of tuning to keep us at the top therefor Ash would have fitted in. After last night he is in a shock state knowing full well that United are very short of being the best in Europe. I think it's time for him to start again with a new blue print that means much higher quality players than Ash however I doubt if Manure board will back him. They are happy at winning the PL and being there or there about in the CL last 4. That keeps the sponsors happy and TV money keeps rolling in.
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"The king is dead", "long live the king...... Agbonlahor, at least he wants to play for Villa.
I want to play for the Villa but that is not going make us a very good team!
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The issue is is the fact that our best players don't feel we can compete... Barry, Milner, Young and Downing... all bought into the 5 year plan and now are all off to compete for honours, which we have fallen back from competing for.
That is what has to be addressed.
Spot on. Bottom line is that these guys were more or less promised honours at some point during their careers for Villa.
That was the deal when MON took over, 5 year plan, build the team and improve progressively until we win something. MON decided that losing Barry and then Milner was enough to derail that, and jumped ship. Now Downing and Young have realised their ambitions aren't going to be fulfilled here either and are leaving.
By a combination of happenstance and poor/mis-management, AVFC is slowly sliding into irrelevance. You can hardly blame anyone for getting out.
Isn't it chicken and egg though? Have these players been leaving because the 5 year plan has been failing, or is it failing because they keep leaving.
I believe the anger with Barry was because it felt like we just needed a bit of tweaking and we would be there. His move epitomised our problem - the team he went to weren't even ahead of us at the time, but soon would be because him and players like him would go there for the money they had, not only for wages, but to pick a fatasy team.
By the time Milner left last year we could already see that we were stagnating, and now nobody really blames Young for wanting a move at all.
Truth is that the 5 year plan was scuppered by Man City's mega bucks. Spurs had played a long game that has come to some kind of fruition at around the same time. Spurs have also had their phase of struggling and losing a few better players after touching the top places, and then came back with a bigger impact. Hopefully this will be us too. That is the only way we can hope to do it. Trouble is, in the modern game, this kind of patience is in shorter and shorter supply for players and fans.
If we looked like we were on the edge of something big then maybe we could persuade Young and Downing to stay, but we're not. However, I think we can hold Downing for another season and if things go well he may be persuaded to sign next year.
The reality is that for the present we actually need our plan to take account of losing one top player a season, but we do need to keep it to one!
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i think the reality is very simple,
players will always move on to bigger and better things,
if we want a player and Aston Villa is percieved as a club to be bigger and better , he will move here,
if somewhere else wants one of our players and they are percieved to be bigger and better in the players eyes, he'l be off
this works for 95% of transfers, if not more nowadays
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The reality is that for the present we actually need our plan to take account of losing one top player a season, but we do need to keep it to one!
I think you speak a lot of sense there. If we plan to lose one player at a decent profit each year then it will not feel like we're having our heart ripped out on each occasion. That is on the condition that there is investment in young up and coming players and/or players that are available on the cheap for whatever reason.
In MON defence there was (maybe) a degree of succession planning in some of his transfers. Downing to replace Young (and he would have been sold when he was worth way more than 15m). Delph to replace Milner. However injuries scuppered these plan.
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I reckon nothing short of champions league qualification would have kept him with us. Its a great opportunity for him. Good luck to him.
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Good for him. Ta for the memories... I think he'll be easier to replace than we think.
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be lucky to get over 15 mil for him bye ash thanks for the memories
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you are entitled to your opinion, as i am mine...
i have been saying the same thing for two years now, and have been very underwhelmed with youngs performances, and his general attitude....
i appreciate that not all will agree...
I agree with you Pablo........He has got 10 bookings this season @ least 8 of those are for diving or dissent and that proves his poor attitude
Not really the same as the poor attitude shown by ppl like Ireland and Carew though is it? Maybe he is a diver but he was always trying to engineer chances for AVFC, and ran his heart out in every game.
On the basis of your argument Ronaldo had a bad attitude at Manu given his diving/cheating antics but that didn't stop him from scoring a shed load of goals for them.
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its not just the diving for me...
that is included, and as i slated c ronaldo for it, and we all slated gerrard for it when they won 2-1 a couple seasons back, it would be hypocritical of me not to slate young for his constant falling to the floor...
however, the diving is a byproduct of his poorer attitude... whinging at the referee all the time, trying to do everything on the pitch like he is the only player who can and more often than not, faling to deliver, falling over and doing a little humming bird impression when the ref calls him out for attempting to cheat, and then sitting there for ages looking like he is so hard done by, and the general swanning about like he is gods gift since he started getting media attention...
he is the stereotypical english footballer who came good, then let it all go to his head, and has become a poorer footballer for it... which is why his form has deteriorated over the past 2 years...
in my humble opinion...
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its not just the diving for me...
that is included, and as i slated c ronaldo for it, and we all slated gerrard for it when they won 2-1 a couple seasons back, it would be hypocritical of me not to slate young for his constant falling to the floor...
however, the diving is a byproduct of his poorer attitude... whinging at the referee all the time, trying to do everything on the pitch like he is the only player who can and more often than not, faling to deliver, falling over and doing a little humming bird impression when the ref calls him out for attempting to cheat, and then sitting there for ages looking like he is so hard done by, and the general swanning about like he is gods gift since he started getting media attention...
he is the stereotypical english footballer who came good, then let it all go to his head, and has become a poorer footballer for it... which is why his form has deteriorated over the past 2 years...
in my humble opinion...
Yup. Nice summing up.
Or to put it another way, Billy Big Bollocks.
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We should be aiming to get more than £15 mil for him! Especially in the inflated market we're in at the moment. That price seems to good and easy for Man Ure. They paid £18 mil for Carrick years ago for christ sake. Lets get more!
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I think their manner of defeat on Sat night might do us a favour.
He will be desperate to bring in 3/4 players, especially in midfield, who have energy and are good footballers.I would be surprised if Park, Giggs, Scholes, Carrick , Anderson are in their starting line up, this time next year.
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its not just the diving for me...
that is included, and as i slated c ronaldo for it, and we all slated gerrard for it when they won 2-1 a couple seasons back, it would be hypocritical of me not to slate young for his constant falling to the floor...
however, the diving is a byproduct of his poorer attitude... whinging at the referee all the time, trying to do everything on the pitch like he is the only player who can and more often than not, faling to deliver, falling over and doing a little humming bird impression when the ref calls him out for attempting to cheat, and then sitting there for ages looking like he is so hard done by, and the general swanning about like he is gods gift since he started getting media attention...
he is the stereotypical english footballer who came good, then let it all go to his head, and has become a poorer footballer for it... which is why his form has deteriorated over the past 2 years...
in my humble opinion...
I disagree with just about all of that. He's a much better player now than two years ago and his confident performances recently for England support that. I don't think I've seen a harder working attacking player in a Villa shirt and yes, he does sometimes let his frustration get the better of him but that is because he wants to win. That's why the most successful manager of all time wants to sign him.
This is, in my humble opinion, the typical English attitude of build them up to knock them down.
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The only problem I have with Young is his petulance and diving. Although this may have been a thinly disguised "come and get me plea" to teams such as Newton Heath and Arse nal.
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its not just the diving for me...
that is included, and as i slated c ronaldo for it, and we all slated gerrard for it when they won 2-1 a couple seasons back, it would be hypocritical of me not to slate young for his constant falling to the floor...
however, the diving is a byproduct of his poorer attitude... whinging at the referee all the time, trying to do everything on the pitch like he is the only player who can and more often than not, faling to deliver, falling over and doing a little humming bird impression when the ref calls him out for attempting to cheat, and then sitting there for ages looking like he is so hard done by, and the general swanning about like he is gods gift since he started getting media attention...
he is the stereotypical english footballer who came good, then let it all go to his head, and has become a poorer footballer for it... which is why his form has deteriorated over the past 2 years...
in my humble opinion...
I disagree with just about all of that. He's a much better player now than two years ago and his confident performances recently for England support that. I don't think I've seen a harder working attacking player in a Villa shirt and yes, he does sometimes let his frustration get the better of him but that is because he wants to win. That's why the most successful manager of all time wants to sign him.
This is, in my humble opinion, the typical English attitude of build them up to knock them down.
i dont work for the mirror or the sun... i have no need to build anyone up and then knock them down and i have been commenting for the previous 18 months or so how young enfuriates me due to the above...
i dont agree he is better now than he was two years ago, and without checking, i would say his goals and assists stats arent as good as they were a couple years ago... and a couple of half decent performances for england dont convince me... darius vassell had quite a few of those too at one point...
whether the most successful manager of all time signs him and he turns into a c ronaldo, or turns into a djemba djemba, only time will tell...
however, you are entitled to your opinion, and i respect that you see something different in him than i do...
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just watching play off final thinking how good that nathan dyer would be as a replacement for ash, his workrate is awesome,he's fast as f**k and runs at players,scares the shit out of defenders
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Liverpool having given up on signing Ashley are after Diego Perotti. I wonder if we are too.
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its not just the diving for me...
that is included, and as i slated c ronaldo for it, and we all slated gerrard for it when they won 2-1 a couple seasons back, it would be hypocritical of me not to slate young for his constant falling to the floor...
however, the diving is a byproduct of his poorer attitude... whinging at the referee all the time, trying to do everything on the pitch like he is the only player who can and more often than not, faling to deliver, falling over and doing a little humming bird impression when the ref calls him out for attempting to cheat, and then sitting there for ages looking like he is so hard done by, and the general swanning about like he is gods gift since he started getting media attention...
he is the stereotypical english footballer who came good, then let it all go to his head, and has become a poorer footballer for it... which is why his form has deteriorated over the past 2 years...
in my humble opinion...
I disagree with just about all of that. He's a much better player now than two years ago and his confident performances recently for England support that. I don't think I've seen a harder working attacking player in a Villa shirt and yes, he does sometimes let his frustration get the better of him but that is because he wants to win. That's why the most successful manager of all time wants to sign him.
This is, in my humble opinion, the typical English attitude of build them up to knock them down.
I'd like to agree 100% with Chris.
It's his workrate which sets him apart from the others, if he ends up at Man U than I reckon he'll be a massive success and much of the shit like 'billy big bollocks' and 'he'll warm the bench up there' reminds me of the flack Yorke was getting, and he'd got three trophies in the bag inside 10 months.
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Still don't think ash will end up at
Man Utd
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...trying to do everything on the pitch like he is the only player who can and more often than not, faling to deliver,
This for me sums up Ashley this season. As we've seen with England and his first two years at Villa, given the right role he's one of the most exciting players around and does deliver. No doubt Fergie will give him strict instructions of what he should and shouldn't do. Ashley has the talent to deliver and more. One thing Fergie won't allow is the loose cannon we've seen these last 12 months.
We'll certainly miss him, probably more than we missed him last season.
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He's been days away from joining for days now.
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Fergie is days away from signing Modric and days away from signing Rodwell and days away from signing Young...there are just not enough days!
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Perhaps it'll be anounced on wednesday, the day the transfer window officially opens.
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I have been hearing this for days and one day soon we might hear he has signed "today" .........
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Fergie is days away from signing Modric and days away from signing Rodwell and days away from signing Young...there are just not enough days!
Days away from signing Heskey ...
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Capello has said before he doesn't want players negotiating club deals when they should be concentrating on England so I doubt we'll hear anything before next week's international is out the way.
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Young and Downing press conference on SSN at 1:30
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Is that an England one?
Presumably will all be on hold until we get a new manager.
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Any news on what was said? Stuck at work!
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oops...
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they said nothing of any interest...
young spoke about being focused on the england game... he refused to talk about contract negotiations, said he had heard nothing about houllier situation, they asked him about fifa and he refused to talk about that, and then they asked him about paul scholes retiring... to which i drifted off into a coma...
downing spoke about being focused on the england game and he enjoyed the formation... said that houllier being here or not did not affect his future plans, and then said something about paul scholes retiring... to which i drifted of back into a coma...
this paul scholes thing today has done my nut in... i have sky sports news on in the background, and the crap they have been constantly waffling is embarrassing... getting out that insignificant idiot clayton blackmore and that drooling idiot gordan durie wiping saliva from his chops at all things manure is cringeworthy... all they need now is that scottish cretin with the rug who never has a bad word to say about manure...
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Still don't think ash will end up at
Man Utd
I agree
I work with a Man Ure fan and rumours on the United Boards (not many want AY anyway) are that it has fallen through because United don't agree with our valuation
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Does anyone know if, Young and Downing end up stopping do they stop on their old contract deal or will we offer new deals to the two treacherous gits.
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Does anyone know if, Young and Downing end up stopping do they stop on their old contract deal or will we offer new deals to the two treacherous gits.
My guess is that we'd offer them new contracts if only to maintain their value if and when they go. Whether they choose to accept a new contract is down to their agents them
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they said nothing of any interest...
young spoke about being focused on the england game... he refused to talk about contract negotiations, said he had heard nothing about houllier situation, they asked him about fifa and he refused to talk about that, and then they asked him about paul scholes retiring... to which i drifted off into a coma...
downing spoke about being focused on the england game and he enjoyed the formation... said that houllier being here or not did not affect his future plans, and then said something about paul scholes retiring... to which i drifted of back into a coma...
I think Downing's comments were significant.
The actual quote was: "I have enjoyed working with Martin O'Neill, Kevin McDonald, Gary McAllister and Gerard Houllier so it doesn't influence my decision at all if he stays or goes."
Why is he talking about working with Houllier in the past tense? Either because
1) He's decided he wants to leave no matter what (of course that doesn't mean we'll let him).
2) He knows GH is going but is not allowed to say.
Either way how can he say it doesn't influence his decision when he probably doesn't know who the incoming manager would be?
Maybe I'm being negative but I read this as: "I'm leaving the club no matter what happens." which is a baffling statement for him to make, unless he does know who's coming in as manager, and doesn't want to play for him.
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Or he's a moderately educated footballer asked a question in an interview and we shouldn't try and disect the nuances ov every sentence.
I think he's unsurprisingly keeping his options open, which is what most players in his position would do
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Or it could mean, I've worked with four different managers in the last 10 months so I could probably work with another one if I had to.
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Regarding them both.
Whether they want to go or not - if, and it is a whopping great IF , we get Ancelotti - you watch them change their minds !.
This is why this is such a major decision, not just for keeping players, but for attracting.
Put it this way, we are talking about needing a midfielder - Chelsea are talking about letting Essien and lampard go - if Ancelotti comes, so can they - and do you think Young and Downing will want to go then ?
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they said nothing of any interest...
young spoke about being focused on the england game... he refused to talk about contract negotiations, said he had heard nothing about houllier situation, they asked him about fifa and he refused to talk about that, and then they asked him about paul scholes retiring... to which i drifted off into a coma...
downing spoke about being focused on the england game and he enjoyed the formation... said that houllier being here or not did not affect his future plans, and then said something about paul scholes retiring... to which i drifted of back into a coma...
I think Downing's comments were significant.
The actual quote was: "I have enjoyed working with Martin O'Neill, Kevin McDonald, Gary McAllister and Gerard Houllier so it doesn't influence my decision at all if he stays or goes."
Why is he talking about working with Houllier in the past tense? Either because
1) He's decided he wants to leave no matter what (of course that doesn't mean we'll let him).
2) He knows GH is going but is not allowed to say.
Either way how can he say it doesn't influence his decision when he probably doesn't know who the incoming manager would be?
Maybe I'm being negative but I read this as: "I'm leaving the club no matter what happens." which is a baffling statement for him to make, unless he does know who's coming in as manager, and doesn't want to play for him.
3) You're reading too much into it?
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How many days? This thread's been live for days already. Can we keep speculation in the speculation thread? All this supposed excitement could be the death of me!