Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on May 17, 2011, 01:38:51 PM
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I believe it's one defeat in seven, and fifth in the current form table. Not brilliant, but better than many of us thought we'd do, so I think it's time we paid tribute to the man who's come in and been responsible for our upturn in fortunes.
Ladies and gentlemen, join me in saying well done to Glenn Roeder.
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I had faith in him, after all he is the most experienced man in the Premier league when it comes to a relegation dog fight.
Nice one Glenn.
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Bloody hell yes, forgot about him.
Took a lot of stick on here as well as I recall.
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Well done Glen, I said at the time we were overreacting
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There were a couple of websites that gave teh man an amazing amount of stick.
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While we're at I think Dunne deserves a mention. Got a lot of deserved stick earlier in the season and for his part in the health farm piss up but there's no denying that his form over the past 3 months has been a lot better.
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Three cheers for the scouts.
Dyb, dyb, dyb, dob, dob, dob innit.
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While we're at I think Dunne deserves a mention. Got a lot of deserved stick earlier in the season and for his part in the health farm piss up but there's no denying that his form over the past 3 months has been a lot better.
Stretching it a bit, isn't it (rather like the shirt that stretches across Dunne's oversized gut)? - thought his performances against Stoke and Wigan were average to say the least.
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No way does Dunne get any credit. He should be nothing but embarrassed of his contribution this season.
He probably won't be, but he should.
He can do one as soon as possible as far as I'm concerned.
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While we're at I think Dunne deserves a mention. Got a lot of deserved stick earlier in the season and for his part in the health farm piss up but there's no denying that his form over the past 3 months has been a lot better.
Stretching it a bit, isn't it (rather like the shirt that stretches across Dunne's oversized gut)? - thought his performances against Stoke and Wigan were average to say the least.
Up to January we were a total shambles defensively, it's still not as good as it was under MON but it is much, much better and a lot of that is down to him.
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No, it's definitely Roeder. I think he should be given a crack at the manager's job.
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The turn around has been noticed i don't know who get's the praise but whoever it is i would like to say well done and keep up the good work especially next season.
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I was thinking about this the other day.
Haven't NRC & Petrov started all these games in centre midfield together?
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While we're at I think Dunne deserves a mention. Got a lot of deserved stick earlier in the season and for his part in the health farm piss up but there's no denying that his form over the past 3 months has been a lot better.
Stretching it a bit, isn't it (rather like the shirt that stretches across Dunne's oversized gut)? - thought his performances against Stoke and Wigan were average to say the least.
Up to January we were a total shambles defensively, it's still not as good as it was under MON but it is much, much better and a lot of that is down to him.
Disagree, Chris.
The last 7 games we've had the same back four - and they've done okay. Crucially, I think that our recent reasonable form is down to having Walker and LY at fullback: they've done a lot of the sweeping up that was perhaps not being done defensively previously.
It's still not great as we know, but I struggle to give credit to Dunne for anything on the pitch this season, given that he is a seasoned senior footballer who should have been a darn sight better than he has been.
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No, it's definitely Roeder. I think he should be given a crack at the manager's job.
LOL.
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Up to January we were a total shambles defensively, it's still not as good as it was under MON but it is much, much better and a lot of that is down to him.
I wonder if Dunne and/or Collins were sat down and told "OK, you've been arses, but we'll put you back in the team and not ask a huge fee for you in the summer as long as you knuckle down for the next few months and keep us in the division."
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I was thinking about this the other day.
Haven't NRC & Petrov started all these games in centre midfield together?
A very good point. It's also noticeable that the better form has also been with Ash played wide left again.
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I was thinking about this the other day.
Haven't NRC & Petrov started all these games in centre midfield together?
A very good point. It's also noticeable that the better form has also been with Ash played wide left again.
No. Makoun has played in a couple of the last 7-8 games at the expense of Petrov and NRC (one each, I think). As I said above, I think that our recent reasonable form is down to having Walker and LY at fullback: they've done a lot of the sweeping up that was perhaps not being done defensively previously
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Glenn's scouting report on Arsenal was that they are vulnerable if you score more goals than them.
The man is a genius.
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I was thinking about this the other day.
Haven't NRC & Petrov started all these games in centre midfield together?
A very good point. It's also noticeable that the better form has also been with Ash played wide left again.
Agree
But lets be honest it hardly takes a master tactician to work that out when 36,000 people every other week think it's blatantly obvious. The same as not having to have studied at NASA to understand that gabby shouldn't be standing on the wing.
In this day and age with the amount of stats available along with the extensive game coverage, why as a top 6 side weren't we doing it before?
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I was thinking about this the other day.
Haven't NRC & Petrov started all these games in centre midfield together?
A very good point. It's also noticeable that the better form has also been with Ash played wide left again.
No. Makoun has played in a couple of the last 7-8 games at the expense of Petrov and NRC (one each, I think). As I said above, I think that our recent reasonable form is down to having Walker and LY at fullback: they've done a lot of the sweeping up that was perhaps not being done defensively previously
Has Walker actually not been at RB for any game since he came to us? No, I don't think the fullbacks can have that great an impact, although I do agree Luke Young at LB has helped the greater defensive rigidity we've seen of late.
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I'm confused lol
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I'm confused lol
Why? Lolz
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It does make you wonder... experienced players in position where they play well and are effective.
Roeder as our new manager... is Dave W trying to wind everybody up!!
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Just on Sky that we are going to make Downing the highest player at the Club so we can keep him.
Fuck me
A season where he improves on a diabolical season last season and does well, nothing more nothing less so have a pay rise
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Dunne should not be in the team ahead of cuellar,and his displays leave a lot to be desired- I certainly wouldn't single him out for praise just because he has started to do what he is paid ludicrous wages to do.
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I'm confused lol
Why? Lolz
Glenn Roeder as our next manager??
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Not as manager
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Just on Sky that we are going to make Downing the highest player at the Club so we can keep him.
Fuck me
A season where he improves on a diabolical season last season and does well, nothing more nothing less so have a pay rise
Is there a thread where you haven't mentioned how little you rate Downing yet? Best get cracking if there is.
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Oooooohhhh
Bout time you got yourself a bird so you can stop stalking me
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Just on Sky that we are going to make Downing the highest player at the Club so we can keep him.
Fuck me
In this day and age.How else are we supposed to keep our best players ? Or would you be happy losing Young and Downing in one season
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I did say at the time Roeder might have a positive effect and that everyone was being a bit too harsh on him. Maybe he's been having a word with our defence and helping them work on their games.
I do think involving the likes of Luke Young, Petrov and Reo Coker more has also aided us.
But Dunne? No. He's just been slightly less wank in the last few games where we also remain fortunate that a few of his mistakes in the last few games haven't cost us as they had done in earlier games.
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Oooooohhhh
Bout time you got yourself a bird so you can stop stalking me
Or you could just keep your downing bashing to the relevant threads. Makes them easier to ignore that way.
Marvellous quip by the way.
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No, it's definitely Roeder. I think he should be given a crack at the manager's job.
Is this tongue in cheek?
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I knew it wouldn't be accepted on here as many of you have painted yourselves into a corner with your opinions on Dunne. However, we've gone back to defending properly in recent months and stopped being such a soft touch at set piececs, much of that is down to him. I'm not trying to claim that he's been fantastic but he helped stabilise the side when things were threatening to go completely tits up.
When he's not there, Bolton away for example, we see the difference.
I don't expect him to be here next season and his early season displays were rubbish but you're letting emotion cloud your judgement if you fail to see how his improvement has coincided with the upturn in results.
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If Downing scored a hat-trick, won 56 tackles and set up another four goals with 50 yard pin-point crosses there are three or four people on this site who would STILL not be happy with him and find some minor way to criticise him. I just choose to accept that and stifle a yawn or ignore them entirely.
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I knew it wouldn't be accepted on here as many of you have painted yourselves into a corner with your opinions on Dunne. However, we've gone back to defending properly in recent months and stopped being such a soft touch at set piececs, much of that is down to him. I'm not trying to claim that he's been fantastic but he helped stabilise the side when things were threatening to go completely tits up.
When he's not there, Bolton away for example, we see the difference.
I don't expect him to be here next season and his early season displays were rubbish but you're letting emotion cloud your judgement if you fail to see how his improvement has coincided with the upturn in results.
Our win on Sunday was in spite of him imo. If he had been sent off for that challenge (as he should have been, if we're being honest), we'd have been in a world of shit. I'm not saying that he's been an utter disaster recently, but he's still enough of a liability to cause serious concern.
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I think his recent form in isolation is decent enough, but not enough to make up for what we saw earlier in the season.
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Just on Sky that we are going to make Downing the highest player at the Club so we can keep him.
Fuck me
A season where he improves on a diabolical season last season and does well, nothing more nothing less so have a pay rise
Is there a thread where you haven't mentioned how little you rate Downing yet? Best get cracking if there is.
He hasn't mentioned him on the Motown thread.
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If he had been sent off for that challenge (as he should have been, if we're being honest
He got in-between the player and the ball who then kicked into him. Sometimes they're given, sometimes they're not and (for once) the decision went our way. It was not the clear cut penalty some have suggested.
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Just on Sky that we are going to make Downing the highest player at the Club so we can keep him.
Fuck me
A season where he improves on a diabolical season last season and does well, nothing more nothing less so have a pay rise
Is there a thread where you haven't mentioned how little you rate Downing yet? Best get cracking if there is.
He hasn't mentioned him on the Motown thread.
Ironic that Downing's only ever recording on Motown was the 'All the Man You Need' album. Wimp!
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It could easily have been given, it wasn't a nailed on pen but we've had softer decisions against us. We deserve a bit of luck for a change, Sunday was our turn.
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Just on Sky that we are going to make Downing the highest player at the Club so we can keep him.
Fuck me
A season where he improves on a diabolical season last season and does well, nothing more nothing less so have a pay rise
Is there a thread where you haven't mentioned how little you rate Downing yet? Best get cracking if there is.
He hasn't mentioned him on the Motown thread.
Ironic that Downing's only ever recording on Motown was the 'All the Man You Need' album. Wimp!
Yes, and on that he bottled out of a fifty-fifty duet with Kim Weston. Wanker!
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It could easily have been given, it wasn't a nailed on pen but we've had softer decisions against us. We deserve a bit of luck for a change, Sunday was our turn.
I think that we can all agree on the luck bit. But still, he fills me dread any time the ball comes near him. Not as much as earlier in the season, but dread nonetheless.
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I knew it wouldn't be accepted on here as many of you have painted yourselves into a corner with your opinions on Dunne. However, we've gone back to defending properly in recent months and stopped being such a soft touch at set piececs, much of that is down to him. I'm not trying to claim that he's been fantastic but he helped stabilise the side when things were threatening to go completely tits up.
When he's not there, Bolton away for example, we see the difference.
I don't expect him to be here next season and his early season displays were rubbish but you're letting emotion cloud your judgement if you fail to see how his improvement has coincided with the upturn in results.
I really don't rate him, but you're totally spot on here.
We missed him when he went off v the Baggies too.
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Just on Sky that we are going to make Downing the highest player at the Club so we can keep him.
That could just mean that we're getting rid of all the taller players!
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If he had been sent off for that challenge (as he should have been, if we're being honest
He got in-between the player and the ball who then kicked into him. Sometimes they're given, sometimes they're not and (for once) the decision went our way. It was not the clear cut penalty some have suggested.
This must be the first time I have agreed with Chris (!) -I have watched the tackle over a few times and am convinced it wasn't a foul as Dunne made no contact with the man -he was indeed kicked by the forward and simply put his body between man and ball.
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Had my hair cut today and the barber is an Arsenal fan (bit dangerous - Arsenal fan approaches Villa fan with sharp implements after suffering home defeat. Anyway once the bleeding had stopped...) He didn't think it was a penalty either - thought it should have been a foul on Dunne. To stay on the right side of his razor I conceded that I thought their disallowed goal should have stood.
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If he had been sent off for that challenge (as he should have been, if we're being honest
He got in-between the player and the ball who then kicked into him. Sometimes they're given, sometimes they're not and (for once) the decision went our way. It was not the clear cut penalty some have suggested.
This must be the first time I have agreed with Chris (!) -I have watched the tackle over a few times and am convinced it wasn't a foul as Dunne made no contact with the man -he was indeed kicked by the forward and simply put his body between man and ball.
Had my hair cut today and the barber is an Arsenal fan (bit dangerous - Arsenal fan approaches Villa fan with sharp implements after suffering home defeat. Anyway once the bleeding had stopped...) He didn't think it was a penalty either - thought it should have been a foul on Dunne. To stay on the right side of his razor I conceded that I thought their disallowed goal should have stood.
I agree with all of the above.
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The main reason we are safe quite simply is Darren bent- without him we would be down.
Dunne has been hit and miss all season and is lucky to be in the team, the return of Luke young at full back has been more of an impact on our defensive improvement- I'm not slagging off dunne but I don't believe he deserves singling out for praise.
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I think Smudger has called it right TBH.
We've benefited from most of our senior players pulling their finger out recently - and Dunne is as deserving of praise as any of them. He's looked it better shape too, which probably helps.
When he doesn't have the spare tyre he can be surprisingly quick over short distances.
Still want him gone in the summer mind. Too much shit has gone on this season and -as we've seen- if he isn't in good shape or motivated, he's no use to us. We can't chance a recurrence.
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I know it is all a massive relief, but I think we are going to be in trouble if we imagine everything will be OK just because we've avoided relegation.
There will have to be some harsh choices made this summer. Meaning: players and staff we like, will have to go.
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Haven't you heard we are practising defending set pieces in the summer, all our problems will be over.
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Dunne should not be in the team ahead of cuellar,and his displays leave a lot to be desired- I certainly wouldn't single him out for praise just because he has started to do what he is paid ludicrous wages to do.
Aye. still looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Only the ref saved him against Arsenal
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No, it's definitely Roeder. I think he should be given a crack at the manager's job.
Yes at West Ham.
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I knew it wouldn't be accepted on here as many of you have painted yourselves into a corner with your opinions on Dunne. However, we've gone back to defending properly in recent months and stopped being such a soft touch at set piececs, much of that is down to him. I'm not trying to claim that he's been fantastic but he helped stabilise the side when things were threatening to go completely tits up.
When he's not there, Bolton away for example, we see the difference.
I don't expect him to be here next season and his early season displays were
rubbish but you're letting emotion cloud your judgement if you fail to see how his improvement has coincided with the upturn in results.
Big time Dunne was superb against Wigan when Walker and Collins were hopeless. He won everything in the air and made a load of critical blocks. The backpass was his only mistake I think. He is still the best central defender at the club.
Cuellar gets better each game he doesn't play it seems. Although given a chance at home to Wolves he was poor.
Luke Young has been an improvement and Reo Coker is playing well. Young is much better outside and Bent is on fire. We have also had a easier run of fixtures.
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Dunne has always had shoddy spells throughout his career but come back strong again. If he canregain the form of the year before he'd be better than anyone we're likely to sign. I like cuellar but he does seem to have taken on mystical qualities. His only real run atcentre back was with Davies and they were both rubbish, tho I'm sure he'd be better with others.
The shift in formation, return of petrov, and, sorry to say it, general return of experienced players at the expense of our youngsters have been the most significant factors.
I thought roeder was just doing scouting?
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Dunne has always had shoddy spells throughout his career but come back strong again. If he canregain the form of the year before he'd be better than anyone we're likely to sign. I like cuellar but he does seem to have taken on mystical qualities. His only real run atcentre back was with Davies and they were both rubbish, tho I'm sure he'd be better with others.
The shift in formation, return of petrov, and, sorry to say it, general return of experienced players at the expense of our youngsters have been the most significant factors.
I thought roeder was just doing scouting?
Scouting and being a cancer on the club according to some overly melodramatic sounds made around here after his appointment. He's obviously destroyed our club culture.
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I knew it wouldn't be accepted on here as many of you have painted yourselves into a corner with your opinions on Dunne. However, we've gone back to defending properly in recent months and stopped being such a soft touch at set piececs, much of that is down to him. I'm not trying to claim that he's been fantastic but he helped stabilise the side when things were threatening to go completely tits up.
When he's not there, Bolton away for example, we see the difference.
I don't expect him to be here next season and his early season displays were rubbish but you're letting emotion cloud your judgement if you fail to see how his improvement has coincided with the upturn in results.
I think much is to do with his organization of the players at corners. He has been noticable in that he has been leading the back 4 a lot more. Performance wise he has still been poor though IMO. Collins has been very impressive in a couple of those games, and Young at left back has given us some real stability. Even in the 1-0 over Newcastle my wife who was coming to a game for the first time in 12 months, asked if they were trying to form a new comedy act, but also noticed that every time Collins does something good Dunne pats him on the arse.
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I know it is all a massive relief, but I think we are going to be in trouble if we imagine everything will be OK just because we've avoided relegation.
There will have to be some harsh choices made this summer. Meaning: players and staff we like, will have to go.
Absolutely agree. Dunne has improved from his previous performance level of late, but he has still given us us almost an entire season of shitness.
Him and Collins have been the leaders of the"couldn't give a fuck" brigade all season. We can't risk that happening again.
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I know it is all a massive relief, but I think we are going to be in trouble if we imagine everything will be OK just because we've avoided relegation.
There will have to be some harsh choices made this summer. Meaning: players and staff we like, will have to go.
Absolutely agree. Dunne has improved from his previous performance level of late, but he has still given us us almost an entire season of shitness.
Him and Collins have been the leaders of the"couldn't give a fuck" brigade all season. We can't risk that happening again.
I would put Ashley Young in the same group, if there is such a thing. A few flashes of good form and it looks like all the top clubs are lining up for him. It beggars belief. I still would prefer him to stay, as I would most of our squad.
People seem to have very short memories. A lot of the players who have been poor this season, were immense the season before (Dunne & Collins case in point). I would rather stick with the likes of them in the hope that they recapture their previous form than offload them at a knock-down price only to replace them with players who may take time/not settle in and most likely cost quite a bit.
If people are still hung up on the off-field incidents, so be it. But if Man Utd fans can forgive Rooney, City fans likewise with Tevez, for what they did, surely we can move on.
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I think Glenn Roeder's mastery of standing by the touchline, arms folded, looking slightly bemused is second to none and I think if M. Houllier is moved upstairs then the logical place for GR is pitchside.
His career highlights courtesy of Wikipedia:
GillinghamRoeder spent one season as player-manager of Gillingham, during which time he led the side to 13 wins in 51 games and saw them finish second from bottom of the Football League, escaping relegation after winning against bottom club Halifax Town in the penultimate fixture of the season.
BurnleyRoeder followed his tenure at Watford by taking a season away from the limelight, assuming a back seat role as Chris Waddle's assistant manager at Burnley. Only a home victory over Plymouth Argyle on the last day staved off the spectre of relegation.
Newcastle UnitedHe was able to turn the Magpies' season around, rescuing them from near the foot of the table to finish seventh in the Premier League with a place in the Intertoto Cup.
Norwich CityHe then guided the team out of the relegation zone with wins over Plymouth Argyle, Sheffield United, Scunthorpe United, Barnsley, Southampton, Preston North End and Cardiff City.
It doesn't take a genius to work out why we are heading in the direction we are.
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See? Roeder for manager.
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Roders the man - and better than Brian Little at interviews too.
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I'm not convinced but it ain't my call.
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If people are still hung up on the off-field incidents, so be it. But if Man Utd fans can forgive Rooney, City fans likewise with Tevez, for what they did, surely we can move on.
Spot the difference: Rooney & Tevez - Dunne & Collins.
I take your point but I do not think that D&C are the future; decent but not going to move us substantially forward.
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I knew it wouldn't be accepted on here as many of you have painted yourselves into a corner with your opinions on Dunne.
I don't expect him to be here next season and his early season displays were rubbish but you're letting emotion cloud your judgement if you fail to see how his improvement has coincided with the upturn in results.
I said earlier Chris that Dunne has played most of our games this season but crucially in the last 7 games we've had the same back four and they've done okay. I think that our recent reasonable form is down to having Walker and LY at fullback: they've done a lot of the sweeping up that was perhaps not being done defensively previously (particularly LY covering for Dunne on the left of defence).
I struggle to give credit to Dunne for anything on the pitch this season, given that he is a seasoned senior footballer who should have been a darn sight better than he has been. Maybe he's just started doing what he should have been doing earleir in the season although he still looks woefully immobile.
And, by the way, this is neither me being melodramatic or having a downer on Dunne; I just don't think he'sgood enough currently.