Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: KevinGage on April 26, 2011, 06:20:27 PM
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From football 365 (http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8750_6897710,00.html)
If you listen to pub sages up and down the land, some of the players in the Premier League are world-beaters. However, ask those who watch them every week, and you might get a different opinion...
A handful of caveats to this piece. Firstly, we are not - repeat, not - saying that these players are rubbish. They clearly aren't. Just that they aren't as good as some who don't watch them every week say they are. Secondly, as F365 do qualify as 'neutrals', it is perfectly possible that we have got a little over-excited about some of these names in the past. We are but human. Sorry about that. And thirdly, all the names on this list were nominated by fans of the clubs in question on the F365 Forum. Check it out here if you don't believe us.
Now, commence calling us clueless clowns...
10 - Steven Taylor
While he's not exactly viewed as a world-beater away from St James' Park, Taylor is held in higher regard by those of us who don't have to watch him every week than is probably justified. It was mildly baffling to see the number of reports linking him with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool the last time his contract was being renegotiated, but it was hardly surprising that nobody snapped him up after Newcastle's relegation in 2009. It's also significant that United have done just fine with Taylor making only nine starts this season.
9 - Phil Neville
One might quite reasonably ask who rates Neville, never mind overrates him, but Neville is one of those players who suffers from the Makelele syndrome - when the underrated is talked about so much it becomes overrated. Sages will stroke their chins and say that Neville may be a meat and potatoes type but he does a vital job and is one of the most important men in Everton's side. While that is true to an extent, Neville's actual ability is often over-estimated. Special Everton mention to - on this season's form at least - Mikel Arteta as well.
8 - Sebastian Larsson
Like his fellow blonde-Gooner-turned-Bluenose Nic Bendtner, Larsson has a pretty high opinion of himself. And if he was to base that opinion purely on one of his beautifully crafted crosses, then it would be justified. However, there are a few more elements to football. Like, for example, consistency and not having a sulk every few minutes. Until those improve, the loftier ambitions of Larsson will have to wait.
7 - Morten Gamst Pedersen
You've heard the phrase 'Highlights Player,' yes? Well, if you wanted to save yourself some ink, you could just write 'Pedersen'.
6 - Jordan Henderson
As with a couple of other players on this list, it's easy to get a little bit over-excited about a player like Henderson. A strong, driving midfielder who can fair lash a shot and pick out a pinpoint pass - such attributes will always be leapt upon by a keen/desperate English football public. In truth, Henderson's excellent run of form peaked before his call-up to the England squad in November, and his slightly underwhelming debut against France was therefore not a massive surprise. There's talk about a big move some time soon, but for the moment this promising youngster is not quite of the world-beating standard some would have us believe.
5 - Shay Given
In all those years at Newcastle, commentators sympathised with Given having to play behind such a shambolic defence, and wondered why a 'big' club didn't pay whatever it took to tempt Newcastle into selling their supposedly world-beating keeper. Could it not be more likely that, though he is a fine shot-stopper, Given is simply not commanding enough to properly marshal a back four, and more to the point dominate a penalty area? It is significant that until Manchester City started firing cash around the place like one of those t-shirt guns at American sporting events, nobody ever did take the plunge with Given. A good keeper, sure, but deservedly second choice at Eastlands.
4 - Jack Rodwell
Some journalists have pet projects - subjects upon which they will drone on and on to anyone who will listen, and many that won't. For Henry Winter, The Daily Telegraph's pseud-in-chief, ever since Michael Owen ceased to be a realistic England option, Rodwell is that project. In Winter's (and, in the interests of balance, plenty others) world, Rodwell is the missing piece of the England jigsaw - the perfect holding midfielder to bring the best out of Frank Lampard, or Steven Gerrard, or Jack Wilshere, or whichever creative type is trendy that week. Indeed, as early as June 2009, Winter wrote a piece predicting the then-18-year-old Rodwell could be part of the England midfield in the 2010 World Cup.
Ridiculously premature, clearly, and while Rodwell might be a fine midfield destroyer one day, let's allow him to establish himself in the Everton team first, shall we? With Neville, Marouane Fellaini and even Johnny Heitinga jostling for a spot in David Moyes's midfield, Rodwell is often left on the bench. Until he's an automatic selection on Merseyside, he should be left alone and allowed to develop at his own pace.
3 - Charlie Adam
Again, overrating Adam is easy enough. Add his often eye-catching passes and vicious set-pieces to the natural urge to spot a diamond in the dog rough, plus the queue of reasonably well-respected figures who wanted to sign him in January, and you have some quite understandable hype. However, Adam's Hollywood balls quite often sail beyond their intended target, and he needlessly gifts possession to the opposition trying something outrageous at least once or twice a game. These excesses are tolerated at a small club with small expectations, with fans who know there's nobody else in their side with Adam's ability. However, will such profligate flamboyance be countenanced at Anfield or White Hart Lane? It should also be noted that the Blackpool Players' Player of the Year was announced over Easter, and the winner was not Adam, but little David Vaughan.
2 - Gareth Bale
And for 'neutrals', read 'Fabio Capello and those people who saw him play in the Champions League'. Capello seems to think Bale is the bees' knees, the cats' pyjamas and the dogs' bollocks, something that could be explained by the envy of Wales having a terrific left-footed winger and England being a little more lacking in that department. Of course, Bale is a terrific prospect who has had some unbelievably good games this season, but to rank him alongside the likes of Leo Messi - as some have done with entirely straight faces this season - is patently ludicrous.
1 - Adam Johnson
In the Judgement Day-esque debris of the World Cup, one of the most significant threads of post-mortem was a summary of bright young things. The hopes for the future. The young players who will rescue England in years to come. Adam Johnson was on many, if not all of those lists, based on his impressive flashes of form for both club and country over the preceding six months. The problem is that's exactly the sort of player Johnson is - excellent in flashes, painfully anonymous for the rest of the time. While some away from Manchester City might wonder why he's not an automatic first choice for Roberto Mancini, Eastlands regulars will realise there's a very good reason why 15 of Johnson's 25 league appearances have come from the bench.
Agree on Taylor and Henderson. Never seen the appeal frankly.
Steptoe should have been put down years ago too. One of the things that puts me off about Moyes, continuing with a player that bad.
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I'd put Jack Wilshere in there. He could be a very good player but the way the press talk he's already one of the World's best, when he's clearly not. I'd rather have Albrighton.
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I'd put Jack Wilshere in there. He could be a very good player but the way the press talk he's already one of the World's best, when he's clearly not. I'd rather have Albrighton.
That was actually me that posted that not AD. Forgot to log him off first.
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Totally agree with the Charlie Adam comments
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I'd put Jack Wilshere in there. He could be a very good player but the way the press talk he's already one of the World's best, when he's clearly not. I'd rather have Albrighton.
That was actually me that posted that not AD. Forgot to log him off first.
Like we care.
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I'd put Jack Wilshere in there. He could be a very good player but the way the press talk he's already one of the World's best, when he's clearly not. I'd rather have Albrighton.
That was actually me that posted that not AD. Forgot to log him off first.
Like we care.
I've told you before, you're not getting an invite to the wedding just because you start referring to yourself as 'we' to get into the Queen's good books.
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I was sure aY7 would be on that list...
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Agree with the lot maybe except from Adam Johnson.
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I agree with Adam, probably Johnson, possibly Henderson.
Think Bale has possibly been over-hyped but his performances over 2010 were pretty sensational I think.
Not sure the others are that highly rated are they?
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Jack Wilshere is the next in line to be England's great hope. There's no way he's going to be part of that list.
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They're a pair of chunts whatever way you look at it, Dave.
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Add Carrick to that list...watch him have a stormer tonight now :-) the odd good pass and the London media are purring...conveniently ignore he can't tackle, doesn't track etc etc
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I've always thought Rodwell looks decent, however an Everton fan I know reckons he's garbage too.
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Steven Taylor?
What nonsense. I can't believe anyone rates him, let alone overrates.
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I'd add John Obi Mikel to that list, he doesn't appear to do anything of use. He isn't good on the ball, not a great tackler and doesn't appear to have much commitment.
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How about adding every member of the England world cup squad to that list?
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I am very surprised that Gary Cahill is not on that list. God, has he been over sold this season.
They should start a list of overrated pundits. Savage would win it by a cuntry mile even from the likes of Fatty Green and Gary Aren't I Cute Lineker.
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Agree with pretty much all of that list, except Adam Johnson, if he played week in week out he'd be class
About time someone stood up to Bale, one night in Italy does not make a season
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Add Carrick to that list...watch him have a stormer tonight now :-) the odd good pass and the London media are purring...conveniently ignore he can't tackle, doesn't track etc etc
Beat me to it Gareth, he is very average for someone so expensive.
I'll throw in Soloman Kalou. Not sure what Chelsea see in him really.
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John Terry
Tom Huddlestone
Glen Johnson
Wes Brown
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I'd put Jack Wilshere in there. He could be a very good player but the way the press talk he's already one of the World's best, when he's clearly not. I'd rather have Albrighton.
Nope Wilshere has shown consistantly this season why he deserves to be starting every week at a good club like Arsenal where it's so hard for youth to break through.
I like Adam Johnson a lot too, rather can't see why he's 1st on that list.
I'd have Rodwell at number one. Whenever I've seen him for Everton, there's nothing to me that screams out he's the saviour of English football, more another steady Jagielka type.
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It depends on what is meant by overrated. Does the player have to be consistent or just have the ability? To that end, Wayne Rooney and Gareth Bale are gifted footballers but are far from consistent, could that put them in the overrated category?
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I'd put Jack Wilshere in there. He could be a very good player but the way the press talk he's already one of the World's best, when he's clearly not. I'd rather have Albrighton.
Nope Wilshere has shown consistantly this season why he deserves to be starting every week at a good club like Arsenal where it's so hard for youth to break through.
I like Adam Johnson a lot too, rather can't see why he's 1st on that list.
I'd have Rodwell at number one. Whenever I've seen him for Everton, there's nothing to me that screams out he's the saviour of English football, more another steady Jagielka type.
Agreed. Stop talking rubbish AD you imbecile.
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Gael Clichy is the most overrated player in the country
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I'd add Glen Johnson, Arshavin, Carrick and...........Ashley Young into the mix.
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Arshavin is a great shout
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Stevie G for me. Still seems to be loved by the media however shite he plays, and if he has a real stinker for england its usually blamed on someone else like Lampard, Barry, a.n.other.... Scholes was far better for England and i thought he was bobbins half the time
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Arshavin is a great shout
Who rates him? He is known as an expensive flop to most is he not?
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Totally agree with Charlie Adams being there, He did start the season well but since jan when he had a bit of interest he has gorn shocking, He gave away the ball to alow wigan to score against them after a Blackpool throw, and even IH said something happened in jan that has changed turned the season.
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The most over rated player of all time, in my book, was Anton Ferdinand when he broke through at West Ham.
Hailed by the nationals as the 'next Bobby Moore.'
He is, quite obviously, shit.
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Surprised no-one's mentioned Andy Carroll. £35 million?
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That eyebrow shaver, Aaron Lennon?
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Theo Walcott gets my vote.
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I'd have said Carrick but I think most people know he's shite now.
So I'll go with... Spurs.
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Carrick ran the show again last night, albeit against a woeful Schalke performance
I'd definitely have Bale on that list, one swallow doesn't make a summer
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I'll throw in Soloman Kalou.
Came onto this thread to say exactly the same thing. I wouldn't even put him in the Villa team.
Honourable mention to Jermaine Defoe too.
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this thread isn't complete without mentioning Michael Dawson
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If everyone's nominating Carrick - who I still think is a decent player, but nothing special - I'll throw his midfield buddy Anderson into the mix. What does he do these days?
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Oh, Niko Kranjcar too.
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Not all current players, but...
Jon Obi Mikkel
Darren Anderton
Nick Barmby
Paul Gascoigne
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Kenny Miller
Peter Cech
Steven Whittaker
That Bolton Defender
Phil Jagielka
Danny Welbeck.
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Not forgetting...
Kieron Dyer
Jermaine Jenas
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I'll throw in Soloman Kalou. Not sure what Chelsea see in him really.
That's the one I was going to mention.
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Kalou is one of those players who has been around for ages, but no-one talks about. I'm not sure how he's overrated though. He's like Tony Hibbert - he's got a career with a decent-sized club, but is completely uninteresting.
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Stephen ireland?
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Sorry,not neutral.
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Always has and always will be joe cole for me
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Yes, good shout on Joe Cole.
I suspect Jack Wilshere is being shaped up to be the new Joe Cole.
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With Joe Cole I think he has bags of ability, but manages not to produce the goods often enough. If that's what we mean by overrated then fair enough, but for me it's more that he should be a much better player.
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With Joe Cole I think he has bags of ability, but manages not to produce the goods often enough. If that's what we mean by oberrated then fair enough, but for me it's more that he's a should be a much better player.
He always seems to get spoken about as one of the most gifted players of his generation (which might have something to do with the large West Ham supporting contingent in the national football press), without ever really having consistently shown this great talent.
With Wilshere, he's a very promising young player, but the overrating has started already - after Barcelona had made Arsenal look like mugs, ITV's crew were waxing lyrical on how Wilshere would easily slot into the Barcelona side - based on the fact he runs around a lot and puts the odd tackle in.
Good player, but - thus far - nothing like that good.
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Stevie G for me. Still seems to be loved by the media however shite he plays, and if he has a real stinker for england its usually blamed on someone else like Lampard, Barry, a.n.
With you on that Greg. I can't be arsed to check how many games he's missed but Liverpool do seem to play better football without him in the team hitting long balls into the crowd and committing acts of thuggery and diving in and around the penalty area, in fact do they ever 'win' any penalties when he's not playing?
Joe Cole and Michael Owen get a vote from me also and Balotelli has the potential to be a world beating overrated tosspot.
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Andy Carrol is a very good shout. suprised how slow he is, and looked lost in his last game for Pool. A lot of money for someone who has had one good season, so glad we got Bent.
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Stevie G for me. Still seems to be loved by the media however shite he plays, and if he has a real stinker for england its usually blamed on someone else like Lampard, Barry, a.n.
With you on that Greg. I can't be arsed to check how many games he's missed but Liverpool do seem to play better football without him in the team hitting long balls into the crowd and committing acts of thuggery and diving in and around the penalty area, in fact do they ever 'win' any penalties when he's not playing?
Joe Cole and Michael Owen get a vote from me also and Balotelli has the potential to be a world beating overrated tosspot.
I remember seeing him(Stevie G) in the flesh for the first time 4 years ago on the first day of the season(when he dived for the free kick) and was really impressed by how he covered every part of the pitch. But he's definetly on the way down now,hasn't played that well for 18 months or so,but none of the pundits dare mention it.
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Van der Vaart.Started well but has faded badly.Very injury prone too
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Stevie G(BH) builds his game around energy and running - the classical all action midfielder - so he was never going to be a player that aged well.
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ever since he slapped that gagging order in
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Gary "fucking" Cahill
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Robin Van Persie.
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Agree unequivocally re: Bale and Taylor.
Would like to second the motion for Gary Cahill. He's solid, but he's hardly the next Terry.
Thankfully for him.
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John Terry. He has been shit for 18 months and noone in the press has the balls to say so
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Can't agree on VDV or RVP to be honest.
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Hasn't RVP scored something like 16 in 16 since January? I really rate him.
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If everyone's nominating Carrick - who I still think is a decent player, but nothing special - I'll throw his midfield buddy Anderson into the mix. What does he do these days?
Mark Kelly over-rates Anderson enough for the rest of us not to bother. :P
And cdvillafan having another user-name...say it aint so?
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If everyone's nominating Carrick - who I still think is a decent player, but nothing special - I'll throw his midfield buddy Anderson into the mix. What does he do these days?
Mark Kelly over-rates Anderson enough for the rest of us not to bother. :P
And cdvillafan having another user-name...say it aint so?
I keep telling you, this Ferguson fella knows nowt and he bloody bought him!
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I think Kalou is a little underrated. He scores one in three from wide and rarely starts. Really productive without headline grabbing.
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If everyone's nominating Carrick - who I still think is a decent player, but nothing special - I'll throw his midfield buddy Anderson into the mix. What does he do these days?
Mark Kelly over-rates Anderson enough for the rest of us not to bother. :P
And cdvillafan having another user-name...say it aint so?
I have only one username, but I share a PC with my brother... ADVILLAFAN, and forgot to log him off before posting.
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Arshavin is a great shout
Who rates him? He is known as an expensive flop to most is he not?
He usually has a wonder game against us.
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For someone in his first season in the prem, I think Carroll's been brilliant.
There's more to his game than just heading in crosses aswell, look at that goal he scored a few weeks back against Man. City.
Not overrated at all for me as on his day he can tear apart any defence in the prem.
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I would say Adam,Taylor, and Henderson they are overrated these players don't appeal to me.
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For someone in his first season in the prem, I think Carroll's been brilliant.
There's more to his game than just heading in crosses aswell, look at that goal he scored a few weeks back against Man. City.
Not overrated at all for me as on his day he can tear apart any defence in the prem.
Do you think 35 million pounds is over the top?
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I think the public's perception of Carroll is about right. Hoeever the £35m fee is simply insane.
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ryan babel and johan elmander. dont see the point of either
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Joe Cole
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Theo Walcott
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Is Babel still at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'?
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Is Babel still at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'?
No, they sold him in January. Think it was to Hoffenheim
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Joe Cole
Couldn't agree more!
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Jermaine Beckford
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Steven Pienaar. I know a few people on this site rate him highly, but he dose'nt really stand out as anything special to me.
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Pienaar will disappear into the immense Tottenham midfield stockpile.
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To that end you could say the entire Tottenham squad.
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For someone in his first season in the prem, I think Carroll's been brilliant.
There's more to his game than just heading in crosses aswell, look at that goal he scored a few weeks back against Man. City.
Not overrated at all for me as on his day he can tear apart any defence in the prem.
Do you think 35 million pounds is over the top?
Transfer fees in the premier league are generally over the top all over.
The player is potentially very good, big transfer fee or not.
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And from the weekend...given both players started very important games for their clubs
Anderson and...
Pavlychenko, I sometimes see him pop up in the transfer rumours section, why? To me he's a very flaky player, poor man's Berbatov. Dosen't have great technique when finishing and is lightweight when played upfront on his own. Don't really know why Spurs played him instead of Crouch and Defoe, even if both had had poor seasons themselves.
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Theres a fella called Barry at Man city, just passes it side-ways. Totally over-rated.