Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: alanclare on April 25, 2011, 12:50:58 PM
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Chelsea paid £50 million for Fernando Torres who has scored one goal in 14 appearances for them.
Villa paid less than half of that amount for Darren Bent who has scored seven goals in 12 appearances for us.
Did Gérard Houllier know what he was doing or what?
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Yeah I am glad we turned down Torres for Bent, what a lot of money we would have wasted.
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Well if we had a return of one goal instead of seven then we would probably now be at best about a point off the relegation places instead of virtually safe. Short term it has paid off big time.
If we get to half way through next season with Bent on 12/13 and Torres on 3/4, Mr Abramovich will be most displeased.
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It's all about chemistry and strikers suiting a teams' style of play.
For instance Ian Rush and Mark Hughes didn't become bad players when they moved abroad, but they turned out to be bad buys.
Garry Birtles scored loads for Clough's Forest but looked like a pub player at ManU.
I hope Torres turns it round at Chelsea - he's a top talent and the game needs players of his ability.
If you look at the returns from all the Premier League's January transfers then Bent is one of the few who have really paid off. The loan signings of Danny Sturridge and Obafemi Martins (one touch one trophy) are two others who have turned out to have been worth the effort.
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If he can stay fit, I think we'll see Torres' true value next season when Chelsea have dispensed with Drogba and possibly Anelka and built a system around him. Torres is a great striker who isn't fit or comfortable. I still think that Bent offers far more value because he can score in any system, whereas Torres needs the right set up.
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I wouldn't buy Torres as he need to be 100% right and a system suit him, but when it is right, he is very good. Chelsea can afford to spend silly money unlike us.
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I hope Torres turns it round at Chelsea.
me too. can't stand smug scousers.
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Be interesting to see if the thickos at Chelsea let Sturridge go.
A top player in front of their noses and they don't seem to realise it.
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I don't think you can call Houllier a genius for signing a striker any manager (except Meltface) would have.
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Bent was the perfect signing for us. We needed a goal scorer and he has delivered immediately. The way we did the deal; out of the blue and without alerting other clubs was a great piece of work. To not give the manager any credit strikes me as a bit petty.
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Genius would be a bit strong a description, spotting good value would be more apt. So far we've had a decent return on our investment. The same can't be said for Liverpool and Chelsea, for the former, we'll have to see what he does injury free but he strikes me as the kind of player who is injury prone. The latter....I really think they've bought a dud. He may well chip in with a few goals now and then but for £50 million you would want him dictating games much in the same way as Drogba has done over the seasons. He's no where near that level.
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I don't think you can call Houllier a genius for signing a striker any manager (except Meltface) would have.
Maybe but the fact remains he was the only one who actually took the risk and signed him. They didn't.
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I don't think you can call Houllier a genius for signing a striker any manager (except Meltface) would have.
Maybe but the fact remains he was the only one who actually took the risk and signed him. They didn't.
Quite.
He deserves credit for taking the plunge.
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yep. if the last guy had a clue about prolific strikers we'd have probably made the CL. All he could come up with was Emile :0(
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yep. if the last guy had a clue about prolific strikers we'd have probably made the CL. All he could come up with was Emile :0(
My mate said that after the game.
'If we'd have signed Bent 2 seasons ago, we'd have made the Champions League.'
O'Neill's pathalogical aversion to strikers has cost us dear.
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If he gets penalties, scores 'em and stays fit, I reckon Bent could nab 20 league goals next year.
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IF we keep Young A. and Downing then he'll certainly bag a few. That said, Albrighton having a run in the side might help a bit! Perhaps Joe Cole wouldn't be a bad buy either.
Bent is perfect for us. He's a Centre Forward that scores goals; he's scored them pretty much everywhere he's been for a number of years. Let's hope he's with us for a few years and keeps going at the rate he is so far.
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GED did what the short irish fellow should have done 3 years ago
full credit due
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I don't think you can call Houllier a genius for signing a striker any manager (except Meltface) would have.
Or Martin O'Neill. So give him some credit.
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I wouldn't buy Torres as he need to be 100% right and a system suit him, but when it is right, he is very good. Chelsea can afford to spend silly money unlike us.
Torres can't seem to get through a full season without injury and this is his real problem. If Chelsea decide to build a system around him and he is out for 3 months of the season then it won't look very good.
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Torres has suffered a few injuries and he has played pretty much non-stop for the past two seasons apart from when he has been injured. He had become such an important player for Liverpool that after every injury he was rushed back furthering his fatigue. Add to this fatigue (it is perhaps a consequence of the fatigue) the fact that the gaps between each goal have become longer. Even before his Chelsea move he wasn't in the most prolific of form and as such an important player for the Liverpool cause that there was intense pressure upon him. Then he moved to Chelsea with the burden of a £50million price tag. This ratcheted up the pressure upon him and combined with the fatigue lead to his drought. If you watched him he was almost trying too hard. With his goal on Saturday the pressure has lifted but even then I think we will only see a few more Torres goals this season. He will get a rest over the summer and will really hit the ground running next season. Well it is either that or he is completely shot.
As a nasty sadistic person who has an intense dislike of all but a handful of football clubs I tend to hope that every big money signing by most clubs would fail. I would love it if Torres and Caroll don't score another goal ever but that is a completely unrealistic wish. They are good enough to get goals. Imagine if we had picked up Caroll when he was available for a few million and Mazrim was championing him? An instant improvement upon Heskey and Carew and in him, Bent and Gabby we would find ourselves with three forwards each with different skills who could complement each other.
That said I struggle to see Caroll being worth nearly two Darren Bents and Torres being worth more than 2 and a half. I probably wouldn't swap him for either due to the issues I've mentioned with Torres and the fact that Caroll would not deliver as many goals. We needed someone who would hit the ground running with goals and in that Bent has delivered handsomely and it is that we must thank for our still being a premier league side.
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GED did what the short irish fellow should have done 3 years ago
full credit due
In keeping with the theme of this thread of who got the best deal.
John Carew (swap) started 105 games whilst at Villa plus 28 sub appearances and scored 52 goals (includes 6 starts, 4 subs, 0 goals under Houllier)
Darren Bent (£18m-£24m) started 106 games whilst at Spurs/Sunderland plus 35 sub appearances and scored 61 goals.
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GED did what the short irish fellow should have done 3 years ago
full credit due
In keeping with the theme of this thread of who got the best deal.
John Carew (swap) started 105 games whilst at Villa plus 28 sub appearances and scored 52 goals (includes 6 starts, 4 subs, 0 goals under Houllier)
Darren Bent (£18m-£24m) started 106 games whilst at Spurs/Sunderland plus 35 sub appearances and scored 61 goals.
Carew did well, but the reluctance to sign a partner for him was odd, not to mention needing to somebody to fill in when he was having his injury niggles.
We got Heskey - A Carew type that doesn't score.
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If he gets penalties, scores 'em and stays fit, I reckon Bent could nab 20 league goals next year.
He'd probably be close to that figure now, had he been on penalty duty with us since Jan, not had a few goals ruled out due to borderline calls and so on.
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He'd be in double figures that's for sure
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Be interesting to see if the thickos at Chelsea let Sturridge go.
A top player in front of their noses and they don't seem to realise it.
Bent, Gabby and Sturridge would make a very nice triumvirate of forwards.
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Be interesting to see if the thickos at Chelsea let Sturridge go.
A top player in front of their noses and they don't seem to realise it.
Bent, Gabby and Sturridge would make a very nice triumvirate of forwards.
Sturridge really does look good.
I wonder if Chelsea will let him go?
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I don't think you can call Houllier a genius for signing a striker any manager (except Meltface) would have.
Martin O'Neill is meltface?
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GED did what the short irish fellow should have done 3 years ago
full credit due
In keeping with the theme of this thread of who got the best deal.
John Carew (swap) started 105 games whilst at Villa plus 28 sub appearances and scored 52 goals (includes 6 starts, 4 subs, 0 goals under Houllier)
Darren Bent (£18m-£24m) started 106 games whilst at Spurs/Sunderland plus 35 sub appearances and scored 61 goals.
Carew did well, but the reluctance to sign a partner for him was odd, not to mention needing to somebody to fill in when he was having his injury niggles.
We got Heskey - A Carew type that doesn't score.
The infuriating thing with Carew is that he has all the attributes to be one of the most effective strikers in the world, as we saw when he was "in the mood" for it.
The problems started when he wasn't quite so up for it, and that was quite often.
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It's been said before Paulie, that if Carew was "up for it" all of the time, he wouldn't ever have ended up at Villa in the first place.
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It's been said before Paulie, that if Carew was "up for it" all of the time, he wouldn't ever have ended up at Villa in the first place.
That's true enough.
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Carew's goals per appearance record sits somewhere between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw. He must be some player if he's done that without being up for it.
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Carew's goals per appearance record sits somewhere between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw. He must be some player if he's done that without being up for it.
Fair point but take into account jc's natural abilities. His sheer size and strength guarantees him a large return. Added to the fact he is a great finisher with both head and feet, and this goes some way to explaining his healthy return without really giving 100%. his class and ability has never been in doubt...
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Carew's goals per appearance record sits somewhere between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw. He must be some player if he's done that without being up for it.
We all know how good he can be, but we are just the latest club to see him be outstanding for two seasons and then be shite and move on, he's done it throughout his career. I have no idea why.
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And if we had signed Bent from Ipswich like I said.... Or when he left Spuds like many of us were advocating the Blessed St Martin should have....
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Carew got 37 goals in 113 appearances, 1 goal per 3.05 games.
Benty - 7 from 12 - 1 per 1.7
Withe - 74 from 182 - 1 per 2.5
Shaw - 59 from 169 - 1 per 2.9
Deano - 37 from 110 - 1 per 2.97
Savo - 29 from 90 - 1 per 3.1
Yorkie - 73 from 232 - 1 per 3.2
Dublin - 48 from 155 - 1 per 3.3
Rambo - 18 from 59 - 1 per 3.3
Joachim - 39 from 141 - 1 per 3.6
Gabby - 49 from 178 - 1 per 3.6
Dalian - 23 from 85 - 1 per 3.7
JPA - 44 from 175 - 1 per 4.0
Vassell - 35 from 162 - 1 per 4.6
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Carew got 37 goals in 113 appearances, 1 goal per 3.05 games.
Benty - 7 from 12 - 1 per 1.7
Withe - 74 from 182 - 1 per 2.5
Shaw - 59 from 169 - 1 per 2.9
Deano - 37 from 110 - 1 per 2.97
Savo - 29 from 90 - 1 per 3.1
Yorkie - 73 from 232 - 1 per 3.2
Dublin - 48 from 155 - 1 per 3.3
Rambo - 18 from 59 - 1 per 3.3
Joachim - 39 from 141 - 1 per 3.6
Gabby - 49 from 178 - 1 per 3.6
Dalian - 23 from 85 - 1 per 3.7
JPA - 44 from 175 - 1 per 4.0
Vassell - 35 from 162 - 1 per 4.6
Benty !!!!!!!
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Great Stats!
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And if we had signed Bent from Ipswich like I said.... Or when he left Spuds like many of us were advocating the Blessed St Martin should have....
When Bent left Spurs to go to Sunderland for 10m in 2009, Martin was too busy spending 20 million pounds on defenders, partly to replace the ones he'd spent 25m on the season before.
This was at a time when we clearly needed more firepower. The striker he bought in 09 was Emile Heskey, the one before that was Marlon Harewood, who, combined, cost not a lot less than Bent cost Sunderland.
Some of the players Martin bought were good buys, but if anything illustrates the scattergun nature of his transfer policy and the frivolous way he chucked money around (fees and, more importantly, wages), it is the above.
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I wish we'd signed Bent in summer 2009.
I'm certain he'd have turned a few of those many home draws into wins and got us 4th and won us the league cup.
I think he'd have been very effective in a MON team that got the ball more forward quickly, set pieces were more accurate and he would've had Heskey/ Carew/gabby alongside him to hold the ball up.
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Carew's goals per appearance record sits somewhere between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw. He must be some player if he's done that without being up for it.
Except as the facts below show, he didn't.
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Carew did have pretty much a 1 in 2 goal record for us though despite the sulks and injury so superior to pretty much any striker we've had in the last 10 years who we've signed pre bent.
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Chelsea paid £50 million for Fernando Torres who has scored one goal in 14 appearances for them.
Villa paid less than half of that amount for Darren Bent who has scored seven goals in 12 appearances for us.
Did Gérard Houllier know what he was doing or what?
If Bent had cost us 50 mil and Torres had gone to Chelsea for 18 mil then I would still say that we have got the best deal. This is largely due to the fact that he has kept us in the Premier League with his goals and that alone is almost invaluable.
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Carew's goals per appearance record sits somewhere between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw. He must be some player if he's done that without being up for it.
Except as the facts below show, he didn't.
Depends where Platt and Gray come from on that list. Either they weren't worked out or they are off the bottom in which case VD is correct that he falls between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw.
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Carew's goals per appearance record sits somewhere between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw. He must be some player if he's done that without being up for it.
Except as the facts below show, he didn't.
Depends where Platt and Gray come from on that list. Either they weren't worked out or they are off the bottom in which case VD is correct that he falls between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw.
I can only find figures for all players if we take league appearances only.
Andy Gray - 167 apps, 59 goals - 1 goal per 2.83 games
Platt - 121 apps, 50 goals- 1 goal per 2.42 games
Shaw - 165 apps, 59 goals - 1 goal per 2.79 games
Withe - 182 apps, 74 goals - 1 goal per 2.45 games
Carew - 113 apps, 37 goals - 1 goal per 3.05 games.
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Carew's goals per appearance record sits somewhere between Gray/Platt and Withe/Shaw. He must be some player if he's done that without being up for it.
Except as the facts below show, he didn't.
I used the stats in John Lerwill's list of key Villa players to compare against Carew's stats. Those stats include cup games and I'm pretty sure they are right. I took Carew's stats from Soccerbase.com.
52 goals in 133 appearances (122 under O'Neill), which is 1 goal every 2.55 (2.34 under O'Neill) games.
Either way, he is in with the gods when it comes to Villa goalscorers.
Gray, Andy Centre-forward 141 69 2.04 1975 1979 Sco Also a second spell 1985-87 at end of his career.
Ford, Trevor Centre-forward 128 61 2.10 1947 1950 Wal
Thompson, Tommy Forward 165 76 2.17 1950 1955 Eng
Walker, Billy Inside-forward 531 244 2.18 1920 1933 Eng An England captain.
Dickson, Ian Centre-forward 83 38 2.18 1921 1923 zzz
Stephenson, Clem Forward 217 96 2.26 1910 1921 zzz Brother to George. In list of 100 top-players in English league football.
Platt, David Midfield (attacking) 155 68 2.28 1988 1991 Eng
Houghton, Eric Wing-forward 392 170 2.31 1927 1946 Eng Subsequent team manager at AVFC and also a director.
Dougan, Derek Centre-forward 60 26 2.31 1961 1963 NI
Garratty, Billy Forward 260 112 2.32 1897 1908 Eng
Johnson, George Forward 111 47 2.36 1898 1904 zzz
Hodgetts, Denny Forward 218 90 2.42 1886 1896 Eng Club vice-president to death (1944).
Thomson, Bobby Forward (and wing-half) 172 70 2.46 1959 1964 zzz
Burrows, Harry Wing-forward 181 73 2.48 1960 1965 zzz
Withe, Peter Centre-forward 233 92 2.53 1980 1985 Eng
McInally, Alan Centre-forward 71 28 2.54 1987 1989 zzz
Pace, Derek Centre-forward 107 42 2.55 1954 1957 zzz Unlucky to be reserve for the 1957 Cup Final.
Bache, Joe Inside-forward 474 184 2.57 1900 1915 Eng Captain of 'renaissance' side of 1909-14.
Shaw, Gary Striker 213 79 2.70 1979 1988 zzz A marvellous player whose career was blighted by injury.
Leonard, Keith Centre-forward 47 17 2.76 1972 1975 zzz Promising career blighted by injury.
Deehan, John Striker 139 50 2.78 1975 1979 zzz
Cowan, John Wing-forward 70 25 2.80 1895 1899 zzz Brother of James.
McParland, Peter Wing-forward 341 121 2.82 1954 1962 NI
Walsh, Dave Centre-forward 114 40 2.85 1951 1955 Ire
Chester, Reg Wing-forward 97 34 2.85 1924 1935 zzz
Graydon, Ray Wing-forward 232 81 2.86 1971 1977 zzz
Rideout, Paul Centre-forward 63 22 2.86 1983 1985 zzz
Walters, Joey Forward 122 42 2.90 1906 1912 zzz
Yorke, Dwight Centre-forward 287 98 2.93 1990 1998 Tri
Saunders, Dean Centre-forward 144 49 2.94 1992 1995 Wal
Dixon, Johnny Forward 430 144 2.99 1946 1961 zzz Captain of 1957 Cup-winning side.
John Lerwill - Key AV Players - Clicky (http://www.lerwill-life.org.uk/astonvilla/avkeyplayers.htm)
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Gabby aint far from being our leading Premier League scorer.
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Now go back and add the ones you missed out.
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Pongo Waring 159 in 216 games... one goal per 1.35 games.
Harry Hampton 215 in 341... one per 1.59.
Both better than any in VD's list, off the top of my head.
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Now go back and add the ones you missed out.
I'm afraid you've lost me?
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It's not difficult. Add the players with better goalscoring records than Carew. cd'a made a start, and there are others.
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It's a bit early to start crowing, but i agree about Bent being a great signing for us. Torres may well 'step it up' somewhat though.
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My list was just the section of Villa goalscorers that John Carew fitted into, I wasn't trying to suggest that Andy Gray was our best striker of all time.
The ones above are;
Halse, Harold Forward 36 28 1.29 1912 1913 zzz
Waring, Tom 'Pongo' Centre-forward 225 167 1.35 1928 1935 Eng Holds record for most goals in one season (50 in 1930-31)
McLuckie, James Centre-forward 62 46 1.35 1901 1904 zzz
Brown, George Centre-forward 126 89 1.42 1929 1934 Eng
Campbell, Johnny Centre-forward 63 42 1.50 1895 1897 Sco
Cook, Billy Centre-forward 61 40 1.53 1927 1929 zzz
Hampton, Harry Centre-forward 372 242 1.54 1904 1920 Eng
Capewell, Len Centre-forward 157 100 1.57 1921 1930 zzz
Broome, Frank Forward 151 91 1.66 1934 1946 Eng
Hitchens, Gerry Centre-forward 160 96 1.67 1957 1961 Eng Left to continue his career in Italy; died in his 40s.
Devey, John Forward 311 183 1.70 1891 1902 Eng Captain during Golden Years; club director from 1904-1934
Hateley, Tony Centre-forward 148 86 1.72 1963 1966 zzz
Astley, Dai Centre-forward 173 100 1.73 1931 1936 Wal
Wheldon, Fred Inside-forward 139 75 1.85 1896 1900 Eng
Brown, Albert Forward 114 59 1.93 1884 1894 zzz Brother of Arthur.
Dickson, Billy Centre-forward 64 33 1.94 1889 1892 Sco Captain of 1892 Cup Final side.
The ones below with a better than 1 in 5 record are;
Stainrod, Simon Forward 81 27 3.00 1985 1988 zzz
Atkinson, Dalian Centre-forward 114 36 3.17 1991 1995 zzz
Dublin, Dion Centre-forward 189 59 3.20 1998 2004 Eng Played a number of games at cente-back
Angel, Juan Pablo Centre-forward 205 62 3.31 2001 2007 Col
Haycock, Freddie Forward 110 33 3.33 1936 1946 zzz
Beresford, Joe Inside-forward 251 73 3.44 1927 1935 Eng
Dix, Ronnie Forward 104 30 3.47 1933 1937 zzz
Lochhead, Andy Centre-forward 154 44 3.50 1970 1973 zzz
Hall, Albert Wing-forward 215 61 3.52 1904 1912 Eng
Chatt, Bob Forward (and Utility) 95 27 3.52 1893 1898 zzz
Milosevic, Savo Centre-forward 117 33 3.55 1995 1998 Ser
Athersmith, Charlie Wing-forward 311 86 3.61 1891 1901 Eng
Sewell, Jackie Forward 145 40 3.63 1955 1959 zzz
Little, Brian Inside-forward 302 82 3.68 1972 1980 Eng Career prematurely ended by injury. Subsequent AV team manager.
Edwards, George Forward 152 41 3.71 1938 1951 zzz Best part of his career in wartime football.
Joachim, Julian Striker 172 45 3.82 1996 2001 zzz
Goffin, Billy Wing-forward 173 42 4.12 1945 1954 zzz
Woosnam, Phil Inside-forward 125 29 4.31 1962 1966 Wal Since an important figure in soccer in the United States
Mandley, Jack Inside-forward 112 26 4.31 1930 1934 zzz
Stephenson, George Forward 95 22 4.32 1919 1927 zzz Brother to Clem
Kirton, Billy Inside-forward 261 60 4.35 1919 1928 Eng
Smith, Steve Wing-forward 187 43 4.35 1893 1901 Eng
Vassell, Darius Striker 201 45 4.47 1998 2005 Eng
York, Dicky Wing-forward 390 87 4.48 1919 1930 Eng Narrowly survived aircrash as pilot in WW1.
Vowden, Geoff Inside-forward 115 25 4.60 1971 1974 zzz
Walters, Mark Wing-forward 225 48 4.69 1982 1987 zzz
Rioch, Bruce Midfield (attacking) 176 37 4.76 1969 1974 zzz
McMahon, Pat Midfield (attacking) 150 30 5.00 1969 1976 zzz
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I must say I'd never heard of Harold Halse before. Seems strange that we decided to get rid of our top scorer after winning the cup and finishing second in the league. Perhaps we were trying to raise cash for the expansion of Villa Park to 130,000.
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I must say I'd never heard of Harold Halse before. Seems strange that we decided to get rid of our top scorer after winning the cup and finishing second in the league. Perhaps we were trying to raise cash for the expansion of Villa Park to 130,000.
We had Harry Hampton.
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Didn't realise he was still playing that late on. Not that it really mattered anyway due to that ostrich getting shot.
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Didn't realise he was still playing that late on. Not that it really mattered anyway due to that ostrich getting shot.
Shouldn't have been hungry.
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So to make him look good you have missed out all our best strikers and he has, in fact, only a slightly better record than Simon Stainrod?
Hmm...
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So to make him look good you have missed out all our best strikers and he has, in fact, only a slightly better record than Simon Stainrod?
Hmm...
Hmm… indeed.
I suppose I have to accept my own responsibility for some people getting the wrong end of the stick. I didn’t miss out our best strikers to make Carew look good, he doesn’t need it with a goalscoring record like his. I just never imagined that people would take the list to be anything other than a cross-section of our top goalscorers. I thought that sourcing the information and providing a link to the data in my post for people to check would prevent any misunderstanding
So just to be clear; This is a cross-section of key Aston Villa players taken from John Lerwill’s website, listed according to average goals per game in all 1st class matches (league and cup). I’ve included John Carew’s stats taken from Soccerbase.com, in correct order. The first entry is according to his record under Martin O’Neill and the second includes the 11 games he played this season.
Gray, Andy Centre-forward 141 69 2.04 1975 1979 Sco Also a second spell 1985-87 at end of his career.
Ford, Trevor Centre-forward 128 61 2.10 1947 1950 Wal
Thompson, Tommy Forward 165 76 2.17 1950 1955 Eng
Walker, Billy Inside-forward 531 244 2.18 1920 1933 Eng An England captain.
Dickson, Ian Centre-forward 83 38 2.18 1921 1923 zzz
Stephenson, Clem Forward 217 96 2.26 1910 1921 zzz Brother to George. In list of 100 top-players in English league football.
Platt, David Midfield (attacking) 155 68 2.28 1988 1991 Eng
Houghton, Eric Wing-forward 392 170 2.31 1927 1946 Eng Subsequent team manager at AVFC and also a director.
Dougan, Derek Centre-forward 60 26 2.31 1961 1963 NI
Garratty, Billy Forward 260 112 2.32 1897 1908 Eng
Carew, John Forward 122 52 2.34 2007 2010 Nor
Johnson, George Forward 111 47 2.36 1898 1904 zzz
Hodgetts, Denny Forward 218 90 2.42 1886 1896 Eng Club vice-president to death (1944).
Thomson, Bobby Forward (and wing-half) 172 70 2.46 1959 1964 zzz
Burrows, Harry Wing-forward 181 73 2.48 1960 1965 zzz
Withe, Peter Centre-forward 233 92 2.53 1980 1985 Eng
McInally, Alan Centre-forward 71 28 2.54 1987 1989 zzz
Pace, Derek Centre-forward 107 42 2.55 1954 1957 zzz Unlucky to be reserve for the 1957 Cup Final.
Carew, John Forward 133 52 2.55 2007 2010 Nor
Bache, Joe Inside-forward 474 184 2.57 1900 1915 Eng Captain of 'renaissance' side of 1909-14.
Shaw, Gary Striker 213 79 2.70 1979 1988 zzz A marvellous player whose career was blighted by injury.
Leonard, Keith Centre-forward 47 17 2.76 1972 1975 zzz Promising career blighted by injury.
Deehan, John Striker 139 50 2.78 1975 1979 zzz
Cowan, John Wing-forward 70 25 2.80 1895 1899 zzz Brother of James.
McParland, Peter Wing-forward 341 121 2.82 1954 1962 NI
Walsh, Dave Centre-forward 114 40 2.85 1951 1955 Ire
Chester, Reg Wing-forward 97 34 2.85 1924 1935 zzz
Graydon, Ray Wing-forward 232 81 2.86 1971 1977 zzz
Rideout, Paul Centre-forward 63 22 2.86 1983 1985 zzz
Walters, Joey Forward 122 42 2.90 1906 1912 zzz
Yorke, Dwight Centre-forward 287 98 2.93 1990 1998 Tri
Saunders, Dean Centre-forward 144 49 2.94 1992 1995 Wal
Dixon, Johnny Forward 430 144 2.99 1946 1961 zzz Captain of 1957 Cup-winning side.
John Lerwill - Key AV Players - Clicky (http://www.lerwill-life.org.uk/astonvilla/avkeyplayers.htm)
Feel free to categorise his record as “only a slightly better record than Simon Stainrod” if you like but would you would choose that particular definition for any of the other players listed below John Carew?
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Can we just agree that Carew was an improvement on what we had (Baros) but not as good as what we have now (Bent)?
I wish Carew all the best, so long as he signs for someone other than bloody Stoke.
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Feel free to categorise his record as “only a slightly better record than Simon Stainrod” if you like but would you would choose that particular definition for any of the other players listed below John Carew?
No, because I only did it because I had a bet with myself that you would answer by quoting another load of statistics at me whereas the only meaningful one is that Carew has been utter garbage for about the last 12 months.
And I won.
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Can we just agree that Carew was an improvement on what we had (Baros) but not as good as what we have now (Bent)?
Sensible words.
He was a good signing for us, one of MON's best, but his time here has gone and we've got a better goal scorer in now - onwards and upwards!
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Feel free to categorise his record as “only a slightly better record than Simon Stainrod” if you like but would you would choose that particular definition for any of the other players listed below John Carew?
No, because I only did it because I had a bet with myself that you would answer by quoting another load of statistics at me whereas the only meaningful one is that Carew has been utter garbage for about the last 12 months.
And I won.
There's something beautifully poignant about that Dave, I'm glad that you won in your head.
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So am I, it's the small victories that make me happy.
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To get this back on a Bent theme....
Is there anybody who would swap Bent for Torres or Carroll. Or, Rooney apart, is there any other forward in the league you would swap him for?
I wouldn't.
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I wouldn't either.
I found it gobsmacking when we bought Bent, how many in the media were suggesting we'd overpaid etc etc, but then Liverpool make Andy Carroll the sixth or sevnth most expensive striker ever, paying 35 million pounds for a player with half a season in the PL and a season in the CCC behind him, and it was lauded as a great deal.
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Nor me, he's perfect for us.