Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 31, 2011, 03:54:55 PM
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sportinglife.com
Gerard Houllier insists all sections of Aston Villa are united for the relegation fight ahead as he prepares to recall defenders James Collins and Richard Dunne for Saturday's Barclays Premier League clash at Everton.
Collins and Dunne were fined two weeks wages for their behaviour towards members of the coaching staff during a team bonding session at a health spa three weeks ago.
But Houllier says the matter has been consigned to history and is poised to bring the experienced duo back into the side now they are recovered from shoulder and calf injuries respectively.
Dunne and Collins proved their fitness when on international duty for the Republic of Ireland and Wales.
Houllier said: "The only thing I can say is that the events (involving Dunne and Collins) are finished. It has been dealt with, it is gone and over.
"The players expressed their will to the club and to myself that they want to give their best for their fans and the club. It is good.
"They were unfortunately both injured for the last game against Wolves but they are available after playing for Ireland and Wales.
"If they are fit, they will play. It is as simple as that because they are personality players and they have the club at heart. They have also strong experience."
Houllier came in for criticism from fans during and after the 1-0 defeat to Wolves and a banner paraded on the Holte End before the game called for him to leave Villa.
But the Frenchman wants everyone to be united for the eight games which will decide Villa's fate.
He said: "Everyone is entitled to think what they want but I took the job because it was a challenge.
"The challenge is bigger now because of what happened but sometimes you battle to get in Europe or a cup.
"Here we are battling adversity together. Together, that means the team, the staff, management, the owner, chief executive, the fans, everybody."
Houllier added: "The fans play an important part. When the fans show the banner, you are not very happy about that.
"But I came here because I've got pride in being at this club. I said that straightaway and that hasn't changed.
"I've got pleasure in what I'm doing. It's not because things are not particularly easy.
"Sometimes you go through hard times at this job.
"Also I've got a challenge, and the challenge is eight games and, also, the unity is there."
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To be fair everyone is saying the right things.
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First it's Liverpool, now he's banging on about United? What next? Blowing bubbles?
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Shame he didnt show those battling qualities when he named the team at Man City.
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The problem with Collins and Dunne is very simple in my eyes,both of them are just not good enough to be premier league defenders
Dunne,Slow,fat,turning circle of a battle cruiser,
Collins,ditto but add in the factor of him being defensively naieve
When you look back at the centre halves we have had in recent times,Mcgrath,Southgate,Ugo,Mellberg,etc how did any villa fan actually ever believe these pair of frauds could be fit to play for Aston Villa
Darren Bent,Wayne Rooney,and Ashley Young completley mugged Collins on saturday and yet it looks like he will go back into the first team when plainly he isnt anywhere near good enough,and couldnt give a monkeys if he's at villa next season or not.
Might sound like a bit of a rant but the pair of them get right up my tits and the sooner there gone the better for me.
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http://http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2011/03/31/gerard-houllier-handbook-claims-are-laughable/?
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They may not be the best defenders in the world but, they are a damn sight better than skinny youth team full backs playing against the big men of the Premiership.
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Singing from same hymn sheet - but are we all in tune I wonder ?
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Maybe, just maybe, the pressure will bring the best out of Houllier. In my mind he's been far too comfortable, thinking he has the backing of the board, money to spend and no real set target other than to get through the season. I hate the phrase 'transitional season', we should have been looking to win games whilst fixing the problems as we went along, not the other way around. For too long he appears to have been accomodating players, trying to keep everybody happy rather than doing what's best to win games and using the squad accordingly.
Houllier has a great squad of players to work with and there really is little excuse for the results since Christmas. He needs to get us back to winning ways and build up that winning habit whilst improving the way we play. I always thought we'd finish the season on an high and even now think we can do it. These remaining 8 games will show us what kind of manager he really is. Staying up is the minimum; I'm expecting a lot more than that. If he can get the confidence back in the team, we'll fly and curse the season ending.
As luck would have it, he has a great chance to have a word with Ashley Young and get him playing in a more fixed role as he did for England, rather than the loose cannon he's been for most of the season. If he can do that and with Bent in the middle, we really can go out and destroy a few teams. Much will depend on the midfield but as others have suggested, a midfield three of Makoun, NRC and Delph should help us win the midfield battle and allow Ashley, Bent and Downing the opportunity to do what they do best.
There really are no more excuses.
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I'm just hoping we can field a team without injuries and suspensions.
That Bolton game summed up our season. We played a top 8 side off the park for 75 minutes but lost to two set peices.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/9439278.stm
this is an interview with GMac which I found interesting - don't know if it has been posted elsewhere. On the BBC Sport/Football site, there's also an interview with Brad Friedel.
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The problem with Collins and Dunne is very simple in my eyes,both of them are just not good enough to be premier league defenders
I take it this is your first season watching football.
They're both good defenders, last season they were part of one of the strongest defences in the premier league. This season due to a combination of form, injury and relations with the manager they have rarely performed at that level but there's little doubt that if they play to the standard of last season for the rest of this we will not be relegated.
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we are doomed and deservedly so.
fans moaned about MON, complained about 6th, moscow , style of play, favourites etc etc
we'd never had it so good at least not since BFR and Saunders.
Look at us now?
Fickle- not half
A lot of our "fans" are dispassionate arrogant and deluded.
UTV
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Good luck with that post...
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I take it this is your first season watching football.
That really sounds snidey Chris.
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dont mention the f word on here, some are too f to realise that they are f!
UTV
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I take it this is your first season watching football.
That really sounds snidey Chris.
It was meant to, such daft claims deserve having the piss taken out of them.
We had one of the best defences in the whole league last season and yet he reckons that neither are good enough to play in the premier league. If he'd said not top 4 quality then it would have been difficult to argue but that just makes no sense.
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I take it this is your first season watching football.
That really sounds snidey Chris.
It was meant to, such daft claims deserve having the piss taken out of them.
We had one of the best defences in the whole league last season and yet he reckons that neither are good enough to play in the premier league. If he'd said not top 4 quality then it would have been difficult to argue but that just makes no sense.
And let us not forget Dunne was selected for the PFA Team Of the Year (http://www.premierleague.com/page/Magazinedettail/0,,12306%7E2035490,00.html) based on his performances last season.
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Let them show they are together on the pitch and fight for each other and don't give in let's all of us the staff,players, and fans stick together unite and i reckon we can get out of this but we must all pull in the same direction.
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Odds on us to finish 8th?
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Let them show they are together on the pitch and fight for each other and don't give in let's all of us the staff,players, and fans stick together unite and i reckon we can get out of this but we must all pull in the same direction.
^^ This!
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In my mind he's been far too comfortable, thinking he has the backing of the board, money to spend and no real set target other than to get through the season. I hate the phrase 'transitional season', we should have been looking to win games whilst fixing the problems as we went along, not the other way around.
Exactly how I see it Mark.
He came in, probably assessed that the squad was set fair for mid table at absolute worst and thought he could coast this season regardless. Start thinking about medium>longterm, paying little heed to short term concerns.
Think it was MON himself who -when rubbishing talk of 5 year plans- said most top flight managers are only ever 5 defeats on the bounce away from the sack. Thinking about it, it's pretty accurate. Fergie and Holloway aside, I'm not sure there would be too many others insulated from it. At the very least, they would face plenty of speculation about their future should the above occur.
Even someone like Wenger probably wouldn't be insulated from that kind of talk. In some circles, it would be offered as conclusive proof that he was losing his touch.
Houllier hasn't actually lost 5 on the bounce, it's true. But in a cut throat business where results are paramount, you really can't afford to drift.
Would we be having these type of threads if we'd got at least the point we deserved away to Tottenham and all three that we deserved against Fulham and Man U in quick succession? 'It's OK, the wins will eventually come, ' was the accepted wisdom at the time. But keep on thinking that way and fail to kill of sides when you've had the opportunity and you eventually run out of games, as we are now seeing.
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Can anyone who has AVTV throw any light onto what he was saying about AY's role ?
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I'll back Lerner I'll always back a player in a villa shirt but I will never back houllier I will cheer and get behind the team !!! but the sooner the Frenchman goes the better
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So we stay up this season winning our last eight and go onto win the treble next.
You won't back him then?
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In my mind he's been far too comfortable, thinking he has the backing of the board, money to spend and no real set target other than to get through the season. I hate the phrase 'transitional season', we should have been looking to win games whilst fixing the problems as we went along, not the other way around.
Exactly how I see it Mark.
He came in, probably assessed that the squad was set fair for mid table at absolute worst and thought he could coast this season regardless. Start thinking about medium>longterm, paying little heed to short term concerns.
Think it was MON himself who -when rubbishing talk of 5 year plans- said most top flight managers are only ever 5 defeats on the bounce away from the sack. Thinking about it, it's pretty accurate. Fergie and Holloway aside, I'm not sure there would be too many others insulated from it. At the very least, they would face plenty of speculation about their future should the above occur.
Even someone like Wenger probably wouldn't be insulated from that kind of talk. In some circles, it would be offered as conclusive proof that he was losing his touch.
Houllier hasn't actually lost 5 on the bounce, it's true. But in a cut throat business where results are paramount, you really can't afford to drift.
Would we be having these type of threads if we'd got at least the point we deserved away to Tottenham and all three that we deserved against Fulham and Man U in quick succession? 'It's OK, the wins will eventually come, ' was the accepted wisdom at the time. But keep on thinking that way and fail to kill of sides when you've had the opportunity and you eventually run out of games, as we are now seeing.
I know you've never really liked him but for me he really has to prove himself (all over again). As I've countlessly mentioned on here, I think we only got half the deal when he joined us without Patrice Bergues. My hope is that we finish the season with style and Houllier brings in Bergues for next season. Houllier is not a man-manager as such, I think he ideally likes to distance himself from the players, in fact he's probably more of a co-ordinator than a day in, day out, manager mixing it up with the players. By all accounts, Bergues was well liked and respected by the players at Anfield, something GH has not managed to achieve here at Villa Park for whatever reasons.
We have the talent, we'll have the support, we just need some leadership from GH and responsibility from the players. I don't think it's too much to ask. Even at this late stage I'm still optimistic we can turn it around but the clock is ticking both for GH and the club.
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So we stay up this season winning our last eight and go onto win the treble next.
You won't back him then?
Very funny !!
Winning 4 of the last 8 is a VERY big ask, and Le Gaffuer will be sacked at the end of the season come what may.
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we are doomed and deservedly so.
fans moaned about MON, complained about 6th, moscow , style of play, favourites etc etc
we'd never had it so good at least not since BFR and Saunders.
Look at us now?
Fickle- not half
A lot of our "fans" are dispassionate arrogant and deluded.
UTV
We've never had it so good? League winners, European Cup winners, League cup Winners, Super Cup winners, even in the Prem years our average finishing position was 6th. MONs average finishing position in his last 3 years/ 6th. So, we've never had it so good you say? Hmmmm. You watched Villa for more than a few years?
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I wasn't crazy about him, it's true.
But you park that when they take over your club, you try to reason that the things that made them so unpopular are possibly the things you need to succeed. That arrogance, one-eyedness and so forth.
I could also see the merit in short term pain for long term gain, changes taken this season to stand us in good stead. The start of good habits and a more progressive style of play. These things do take time, and during the interim results might be up and down. I envisaged a season closer to BFR's debut one in 1991.
But there has been far more down than up, so many (needless) PR gaffes and some absolutely rotten form. Examples in both cases of previous lessons not being heeded. That, more than anything else, leads me to conclude that this one won't just get better with time and we'll be better off making a change in the summer. Just write it off as a bad job, it happens. Move on.
The point you make about Bergues is a good one though, and he -or an addition of similar calibre to the backroom staff- would be one of the few scenarios that might make another season+ of GH more palatable.
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Houllier is not a man-manager as such, I think he ideally likes to distance himself from the players, in fact he's probably more of a co-ordinator than a day in, day out, manager mixing it up with the players.
For once, I think you're pretty much spot on, Mr. Kelly. Houllier is an administrator and planner, if you like, and not necessarily, one to keep things ticking from day-to-day. That's largely why I think the idea of a small coaching team (and no defensive coach) is a mistake (and hopefully one made due to time constraints and not because GH thought it was ideal).
Anyway, GH's cup treble at his previous PL club shows that he has (had) the ability to get his team winning when it matters. And that is at least one encouraging thought these days. I don't buy the "that was 10 years ago and football has moved on since then stuff". MON lived in the 70-ies and still managed to do pretty well result-wise.
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sportinglife.com
"Here we are battling adversity together. Together, that means the team, the staff, management, the owner, chief executive, the fans, everybody."
"But I came here because I've got pride in being at this club. I said that straightaway and that hasn't changed.
Adversity created by him.
The pride that was not enough to show some fight at mancity.
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At least he managed to make some comments without putting his foot in it.
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At least he managed to make some comments without putting his foot in it.
I reckon you can cut the tension with a rusty spanner in the Villa press room when they see him ambling towards a microphone.
"Go to DefCon 2"
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To be fair everyone is saying the right things.
I'd rather them be saying the right things on the pitch.
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he has said Dunne and Collins will play if fit, so Carlos must feel great, Cuellar has done nothing to lose his place.
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he has said Dunne and Collins will play if fit, so Carlos must feel great, Cuellar has done nothing to lose his place.
He doesn't seem to rate Carlos at all.
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he has said Dunne and Collins will play if fit, so Carlos must feel great, Cuellar has done nothing to lose his place.
Nor anything to keep it.
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You can't get past the reasoning that if we had a normal season of injuries instead of the diabolical run of continually losing senior players, sometimes three at a time, then we would not be in the position we are. It is easy to lay blame but this no-one can control. Collins and Dunne were in the main superb last season but both have had long spells of injury, lets hope that we keep injury free for the rest of the season.
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he has said Dunne and Collins will play if fit, so Carlos must feel great, Cuellar has done nothing to lose his place.
Nor anything to keep it.
I thought he did well against Wolves, particularly when you consider he had a rookie playing out of position along side him
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Lose at Everton and he's gone.
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He won't be.
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Enough talk, the manager needs to motivate and organise his team to demonstrate how much Aston Villa means to them...starting at Goodison.
Another limp defeat with the accompanying fall out and probable drop into the bottom three and I think the board may well panic.
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I'm fucking sick of talk, whether it's positive, negative, bollocks, made-up, whatever. Talking needs to stop now. Get the players arses's kicked, roll their fucking sleeves up and get some bastard points.
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I'm all for positive talk, yeah, we're going to stay up, yeah, yeah, yeah, we have th equality etc etc. But, I'm not sure if I was the
players I'd be saying anything. People will hammer the players even harder if we don't stay up.
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fans moaned about MON, complained about 6th, moscow , style of play, favourites etc etc
we'd never had it so good at least not since BFR and Saunders.
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I beg to differ
What about Brian Little? 4th Place, 5th Place, league cup, FA Cup Semi
John Gregory - Record unbeaten start, 6th place, FA CUP Final
So actually we had it better than MON
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sportinglife.com
HOULLIER - I HAVE THE CLUB'S SUPPORT
Gerard Houllier insists he still has the full support of Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner.
Houllier has come under fire from supporters who called for him to be sacked after the recent 1-0 home defeat by Wolves.
That left Villa just one point above the Barclays Premier League relegation zone.
But Houllier is adamant a close bond remains between himself, Lerner and Faulkner.
Houllier, whose side visit Everton on Saturday, said: "I speak to Randy Lerner on a regular basis and I speak also to Paul Faulkner a minimum of once a day.
"We are very close and very tight together. We know what we are going through.
"It is important to be in a club where there is a strong belief and the trust is there.
"I think their support for me is just as strong. In fact, I am convinced of that."
Houllier believes the club is unified in the battle to stay in the top flight but he has issued a warning to anyone not committed fully to Villa's cause.
He said: "I believe the club is unified. If someone is not with us and not giving more than 100%, he's got to leave because we won't make it.
"But I think we are all right and there is no problem.
"The spirit is good, we know where the land lies, we're not lying to ourselves, we are in a relegation battle, like others and we are aware of that.
"At the same time we have the quality and mentality to deal with that."
Houllier also plays down suggestions he has had a crackdown on club rules with reports claiming players were unhappy about his attitude towards the use of mobile phones.
He said: "Regarding the mobile phones, I only mentioned it on my first day but there was no ban.
"In fact, they are very reasonable because there is no use of them in the changing room and I don't go and check it."
The former Liverpool boss also dismisses the theory that he is in favour of fining players, including relating to their time-keeping.
He said: "I heard about fines but I've never put a fine on a player who's been late.
"If someone comes in from London and they get stuck in a traffic jam, they ring.
"You are not going to give them another bang on their head by fining them. It has happened maybe once or twice.
"I hate fines and I never give fines."
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Whats really getting to me is the media sniffing blood like sharks circling. We all know its not great and we are in trouble but to me it seems every time I switch on the radio, be it 5 live or talkshite its all about how crap the moral is the splits in the camp etc.
I really feel that regardless of how anyone feels about the manager certain players etc, that can wait till the summer. We all need to get a siege mentality now and stick it to all of them.
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the more i hear about Gerrard Houllier's new hardline regime, the more worried i get. Asking players to phone in if they're stuck in a traffic jam!? The guy's worse than Stalin......
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You can't get past the reasoning that if we had a normal season of injuries instead of the diabolical run of continually losing senior players, sometimes three at a time, then we would not be in the position we are. It is easy to lay blame but this no-one can control. Collins and Dunne were in the main superb last season but both have had long spells of injury, lets hope that we keep injury free for the rest of the season.
Problem with that ROBBO is that we've had enough time and games available -even taking injuries into account- to not be 1 point off the drop zone and just 3 off the bottom going into April.
The injuries -both the major glut in Nov/Dec and some of the more recent ones- should have put the kybosh on thoughts of Europe. They shouldn't mean we face the very real prospect of going down, not with this squad.
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he has said Dunne and Collins will play if fit, so Carlos must feel great, Cuellar has done nothing to lose his place.
He doesn't seem to rate Carlos at all.
I agree. It is almost bordering on a disgrace if you consider the shocking form, fitness and attitude of Collins and Dunne that they get in ahead of him.
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we'd never had it so good at least not since BFR and Saunders.
We've never had it so good? League winners, European Cup winners, League cup Winners, Super Cup winners, even in the Prem years our average finishing position was 6th. MONs average finishing position in his last 3 years/ 6th. So, we've never had it so good you say? Hmmmm. You watched Villa for more than a few years?
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watched villa all my life. Give me MON over this current idiot anyday.
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Lets forget whats gone in the past and get right behind the manager and players for the last 8 games, the recriminations can wait until the summer - we simply must pull together and get out of this mess first and foremost.
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Lets forget whats gone in the past and get right behind the manager and players for the last 8 games, the recriminations can wait until the summer - we simply must pull together and get out of this mess first and foremost.
Well said eastie
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Lets forget whats gone in the past and get right behind the manager and players for the last 8 games, the recriminations can wait until the summer - we simply must pull together and get out of this mess first and foremost.
Well said eastie
It's going to be very nervy no matter what so the best thing Villa fans can do is do exactly this.
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i used to have a boss that got us all together, make a speach with the lets all pull together, we know we can do it, we are a great company, just like the rhetoric on here