Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: milky on March 23, 2011, 08:30:54 PM

Title: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: milky on March 23, 2011, 08:30:54 PM
Hello good peopel of Heroes & Villans! Long time lurker, first time poster! I posted this elsewhere - but it seems a good discussion topic in it's own right. I'd be interested if anyone agress with me?

I'll add the following disclaimer... I dislike Houllier (as a manager) as much as anyone else but...

THE PLAYERS SIMPLY HAVE TO START TAKING RESPONSIBILITY!!
The players obviosuly lack focus, respect & discipline - this has been evident all season long - from their performances on the pitch.

Maybe Houlliers idea of getting the players to learn these skills off the pitch (no phones in chnaging room and being a general disciplinarian) is being done so in order to try to get the players to be able to apply it on the pitch?

Perhaps the timig of it can be questioned, but not what he is trying to do surely? Whichever way we look at it our players have obviosuly had it too easy for too long now.

Why on earth should a player have a mobile phone in the dressing room? They are there to work, not play. What would you think of a work colleague turning up to a meeting and playing on his phone?

Whether Houllier is in charge or not - these players are a disgrace to themselves and their profession - this is exactly the sort of thing we should as a club promote; basic decency and respect. These players perhaps not collectively but certainly particular individuals lack respect - going out drinking on a team bonding session, causing a raucous, slagging off the staff, the club or the city of Birmingahm itself.

Players need to work for the manager (even if he is a a prick or not) that's what they are employed to do. They should have professional pride.
I'm sure we've all worked for our fair share of pricks. What do we do? Give up, rebel and stop trying, or try to prove him wrong and do it for yourself? Even if you couldn't care less about proving them wrong you knuckle down and do it for yourself, for your pride. Anyone who takes the route of giving up and rebelling shouldn't be anywhere near our football club.

Would the likes of Olof Mellberg / Martin Laursen / Wilfred Bouma lose focus like this? They've in their time here played for terrible managers at the Villa and endured some terrible times (playing wise) and you didn't see them rebelling like this. Perhaps the difference is their character - they've played for proper teams in world football and have a proper adult mentality. English players appear to be spoilt brats from what I can see. A generalisation yes, but there is truth here.

Also let's not forget that Houlliuer has inherited other peoples players / staff and it seems that a large number of these players as individuals lack these basic personal skills required to suceed in life as well as football.

Summary: although Houllier is not the right man for the job - there is nothing wrong with trying to instil discipline, focus and respect into a squad which largely has none of these attributes. Players need to stand up and be counted and not hide / blame everyone but themselves.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: brian green on March 23, 2011, 08:45:09 PM
Excellent first post Milky and welcome.   Liked everything you have written but the name you have chosen.

I was thinking much along these lines when I read today's piece in the Mirror which effectively put Collins in the right and the club in the wrong.

The piece was the usual anti Villa weasel work by James Nursey who solicited from Collins that he was glad to be away from Villa Park with the Wales squad.

The interview should have been based on the journalist asking whether the player was ashamed to have got fighting drunk when he was the beneficiary of his employer's generosity and moreover in that drunken state abused his work colleagues.

The reply from an honourable and decent man would have been "yes, I behaved very badly, I apologize to the club and my colleagues and regret such lack of self control"

Instead we get a comment from the moral high ground that it is good to be away from Villa Park because things there have been difficult.

You are quite right Milky the biggest faults lie with the senior players ever since the departure of the previous manager.   They should be ashamed of themselves but they are not.   In fact you get the suspicion that they are gloating over Houllier's discomfort.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: peter w on March 23, 2011, 08:48:32 PM
I read that interview and was bloody furious. It did read as if Collins was laughing at us and not taking the seriousness of the event, and the clubs position to heart.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: brian green on March 23, 2011, 08:51:13 PM
My feelings exactly Peter.   And you can bet your mortgage on him aggravating his calf injury and be unavailable for selection by Villa for a few weeks more.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Ian. on March 23, 2011, 09:00:02 PM
Great post Milky.
I never read this report, infact I'm quite gob smacked Collins has taken that attitude. Unless he has been misquoted the bloke has got to look where he is in his professional career because he will not get a better club than us.
I thought maybe he has been influenced (as we all have in life at times) got pissed and spoke out of line. OK we all make mistakes, but the thing is decent blokes admit when they are in the wrong.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: milky on March 23, 2011, 09:05:13 PM
indeed I feel that the 'favourites' from the old regime are not getting such prefferential treatment and don't like it. But that may well be wide of the mark and is purely speculation. Anyway it's best not turining this into a MON vs houllier argument!

But there seems no desire, no leader, no one 'doing it for the club' or for the fans.

I'd like our best players here and playing - but what can you do if they're openly disrespecting you like that? It's almost an impossible situation.

If that's true about Collins (I haven't seen it and just don't trust the Mirror) then it's truly scandalous he should be fined and be ashamed of himself.

Surely it's not too difficult to try? As a proffessional the absolute minimum I expect to get from them is focus, discipline and determination.

People have off days and play poorly / make mistakes etc it's human nature but there seesm to be many basic skills lacking and no desire to remedy it




Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on March 23, 2011, 09:11:03 PM
I'd rather play the kids with the proper attitude who'll give everything for the club and get relegated than see arseholes like Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Carew, Ireland and Beye wear a Villa shirt again.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 23, 2011, 09:19:59 PM
Milky , great post  .       pretty spot on
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: D.boy on March 23, 2011, 09:53:40 PM
Now the hysteria from the weekend has subsided a little I will throw in my thoughts.
There appears to be a darkside to Villa this season and I think it has started to come to the forefront over the last couple of weeks. I don't know what is going on but there is a decent squad (on paper) who are under-achieving week in week out. We can all rant about the manager but at the end of the day it comes down to the team on the pitch. I'm bloody sure Houllier isn't sending them out to lose (Man Citeh apart) so is it that some of the big ego's don't like the way Houllier is changing things so they are causing unrest/want to go elsewhere. If it is then the sooner they are shipped out the better.
These so called players are on ludicrous wages for what they do and are supposed to be professionals.
Quite happy to pick up their big fat pay cheque for doing bugger all. If it transpires that the performances of some are an attempt to oust Houllier then I hope they are named and shamed come the end of the season and booted out of the club.
This is our club your royally screwing and us supporters are getting severely hacked off with your shite attitude. We will still be here long after you have jumped off this particular gravy train and we have every right to be concerned/voice our frustration with the direction your arrogance is taking our club.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: milky on March 23, 2011, 10:01:17 PM
Now the hysteria from the weekend has subsided a little I will throw in my thoughts.
There appears to be a darkside to Villa this season and I think it has started to come to the forefront over the last couple of weeks. I don't know what is going on but there is a decent squad (on paper) who are under-achieving week in week out. We can all rant about the manager but at the end of the day it comes down to the team on the pitch. I'm bloody sure Houllier isn't sending them out to lose (Man Citeh apart) so is it that some of the big ego's don't like the way Houllier is changing things so they are causing unrest/want to go elsewhere. If it is then the sooner they are shipped out the better.
These so called players are on ludicrous wages for what they do and are supposed to be professionals.
Quite happy to pick up their big fat pay cheque for doing bugger all. If it transpires that the performances of some are an attempt to oust Houllier then I hope they are named and shamed come the end of the season and booted out of the club.
This is our club your royally screwing and us supporters are getting severely hacked off with your shite attitude. We will still be here long after you have jumped off this particular gravy train and we have every right to be concerned/voice our frustration with the direction your arrogance is taking our club.

Exactly I completely endorse this post. If we were to go down it would be devastating - but things are obviously very wronmg at the club at the moment.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 23, 2011, 10:04:58 PM
Very good thought provoking post and welcome to H & V.
I agree entirely that players should be disciplined, show professional pride, and do as the manager tells them.
As you say, all of us in the real world of work have had situations we dont entirely like but you have to knuckle down and get on with it. Sometimes having to put up with an unsatisfactory situation for years, not half a football season, because we might not have other options or choices.
I remember Graham Taylor talking at the AGM shortly after returning for his 2nd spell in charge. He spoke about how the game had changed, how he now had to deal with a dressing room where most of the people in front of him were millionaires or assured to become millionaires. Money and financial security gives people choices. Not just a choice of whether to buy a Ferrari or a Porsche, but the choice to move on easily and quickly from any situation which you are not entirely happy with.
Graham Taylors 2nd spell did not work out as we all know. I wonder how Ron Saunders would get on with the modern multi millionaire players, probably outright open revolt and them all going off to cry to Gordon Taylor at the PFA.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: curiousorange on March 23, 2011, 10:13:35 PM
All of the dailies' takes on the Collins/Dunne incident today appeared to portray Collins as the victim of a hostile smear campaign. He's joined up with Wales to escape his Villa 'nightmare', finally discovered a united dressing room and can now play in a game where he can be a proud captain and perform without pressure. Litte was made of the fact that he made a rod for his own back with his club. For the record, I'd like to think that Collins' part in the whole thing has kind of been tacked on to Dunne's, given that Dunne's demonstrated his bad relationship with our management already this season, but the guy's big enough and ugly enough to take responsibility for his misdemeanours, and to view him as anything other than a tit who forgot his place in the pecking order would be taking a very biased line.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: KevinGage on March 23, 2011, 10:16:11 PM
Not having a dig at the OP, but I don't buy  it.

These kind of party pieces only tend to rear their head when a side struggles. Funny eh? Well actually no, not in our case.

In the case of Collins, he probably gave an honest answer to a loaded question. Yes, it is easier to be away and to shift focus temporarily from a club turning in on itself.

On to the wider context of the players being to blame, they share a degree of culpability. But not getting anywhere near the best out of the resources at his disposal is ultimately a failing of the manager. Players -even the very best- need guidance, leadership and a game by game plan to maximise their effectiveness.

If managers weren't central to performance, results  and the overall wellbeing of a club Chairmen and owners could save themselves a packet by doing away with them altogether.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: rob_bridge on March 23, 2011, 10:33:58 PM
Good post and responses - not that I agree in whole with them.
Houllier disrespected our club with his Liverpool Love-In so it is unsurprising that experienced players show him little or no respect. He winds me up far more than O'Leary ever did and depresses more than McDuff ever did. He has to go - the results are unacceptable
That said the players (and Friedel has at least) should have respect for themselves and the club and have think that this bloke may bethe worst person I have ever worked for and as soon as I get the chance I want away from him. However in the meantime I'm going to keep my gob shut, train hard and try and succeed and ensure no one points the finger at me for not trying in spite of the buffoon in charge.
Alas that is what normal people do - ones who have to pay rent. mortgages, feed and clothe families. These guys don't have such things to worry about and get paid huge sums even when they don't work.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on March 23, 2011, 11:04:49 PM
Excellent post Milky. Very suprised and dissappointed if Collins is taking the piss. He seems like one of only a few that seems to show real passion in the side .......
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 23, 2011, 11:08:32 PM
Wasn't sure where else to put this.
-----------------

Stewart Downing glad to swap focus:

Stewart Downing has admitted the chance to join up with the England squad is a welcome relief from the stress of Villa’s current Premier League plight.

Downing is preparing for England’s Euro 2012 qualifier against Wales with Villa team-mates Darren Bent, Ashley Young and Kyle Walker.

And the 26-year-old is happy to swap his Villa shirt for an England one and revealed the break from club football will benefit all those on international duty.

He said: “It does help you. You are going into a different environment with a different kind of pressure so obviously if you go there and do well it can help bring confidence back to club.

“Sometimes the break does you good, we can also regroup and get some players back from injury and suspension so it has probably come at a good time.

“Then we can get focused and go again because we missed some of those not involved against Wolves.”

If he plays, Downing is likely to come up against Villa defender James Collins, who is set to captain Wales at the Millenium Stadium, and the Middlesbrough-born midfielder could not resist a bit of banter in the build-up to the game.

The winger said: “There are a few Villa lads in the squad so hopefully we can all play a part. Obviously James Collins is in the Wales squad so there will be a bit of rivalry there.

“I’m sure there will be a few texts flying around this week about what is going to happen but that’s what you like in a way. It is enjoyable to play against your mates and wind them up if you can get one over on them.

“I’m looking forward to it because it is a big game and hopefully I’ll be involved.”

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2011/03/23/stewart-downing-glad-to-swap-focus/
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: KevinGage on March 23, 2011, 11:54:44 PM
The Bastard.

Away on international duty and happy to avoid the gloom for a bit?

*Modern football is rubbish/ SKY killed football/ video killed the radio star

*delete as applicable
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: brian green on March 24, 2011, 07:39:13 AM
I would not have expected anything else from somebody whose footballing ability is diminished substantially by his cowardice.

A one hundred percent footballer, James Milner for example would never be drawn into dissing the club who pay his wages and would almost certainly say that the international games are an unwelcome distraction from the job in hand.

Like you say Kevin.   Bastard.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: WikiVilla on March 24, 2011, 07:46:38 AM
The season just gets worse
If anyone thinks this bunch are going to return from international duty and roll their sleeves up for villa you are diluded
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 24, 2011, 07:49:07 AM
The season just gets worse
If anyone thinks this bunch are going to return from international duty and roll their sleeves up for villa you are diluded
Fuck my old boots Wiki, we know things are in a bad way, but do you have to bang on about it endlessley?
You're like Leonard Cohen reciting the protect and survive booklet.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Duncan Shaw on March 24, 2011, 08:05:45 AM
Also in the Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/downing-admits-it-is-a-welcome-relief-to-get-away-from-villa-2251062.html

Reading that you'd think Ged's position was untenable wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: WikiVilla on March 24, 2011, 08:11:19 AM
The statements from Collins and Downing in the last 48 hours have been appalling and further undermine GHs position
There is something very wrong at the club and it is now seemingly out of control
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: LeeB on March 24, 2011, 08:12:38 AM
Every time one of our players opens his trap, I seem to dislike him a little bit more.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Clampy on March 24, 2011, 08:28:42 AM
Going back to this banning of mobile phones in the dressing room malarkey, is'nt this just another unnecessary rule that GED has brought in at a time when we don't need anymore agitation amongst the ranks? I know players need to be focused on the game but as long as they're not sat there texting away whilst Ged is giving team talk or going through tactics etc, then it should'nt be a problem.

It sound to me like he needs to ease up a little on his strict approach because so far it's brought us nothing but grief, on and off the pitch.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on March 24, 2011, 08:33:51 AM
Am I getting the wrong end of the stick here.

He said: “It does help you. You are going into a different environment with a different kind of pressure so obviously if you go there and do well it can help bring confidence back to club.

“Sometimes the break does you good, we can also regroup and get some players back from injury and suspension so it has probably come at a good time.


Surely he's being positive about this break as an aid to players confidence. Isn't that what we want?

Or should he have said:
He said: “It doesn't help you at all. You are going into a different environment with a different kind of pressure so obviously if you go there and do badly it means you lose self confidence when you go  back to your club.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: UsualSuspect on March 24, 2011, 08:34:05 AM
I read that interview and was bloody furious. It did read as if Collins was laughing at us and not taking the seriousness of the event, and the clubs position to heart.

The bloke is a wanker

Second time he has taken the piss the season bit it's npot his fault
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: UsualSuspect on March 24, 2011, 08:35:53 AM
Downing can fuck off as well

Oh the poor lambs so glad to get away from nasty Villa Park even though the club pays them upwards of 50k per week for their services.

Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: German James on March 24, 2011, 09:03:43 AM
This is a great point that Milky (and most other posters) make.

If these obscenely wealthy apes really are involved in some sort of go-slow because they don't like the training regime, they should be out the door. Shame on them, and fair play to Houllier for trying to instill some discipline.

Trouble is, PL players' behaviour is tolerated as there's so much at stake.

I can't think of any profession where the employee has his bosses by the balls as much as in football.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: django on March 24, 2011, 09:11:24 AM
I dont think most of the players are deliberately under performing to get rid of Houllier. It's clear that a lot of the players don't believe in his methods and in those situations it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy and gives them an excuse to fail. For example I doubt gaby wants to play on the left, so when it isnt working during a game, he can't help but think what we think, that it's a misuse of his talent and things could be more effective if he was played up front. Other players might see poor Nathan baker chucked in at left back and think Houllier should make up with Warnock.

These doubts might not manifest themselves in outright rebellion, but in such a tight league with very little separating teams in terms of quality, we can't afford to send out a team that lacks belief in the way it is set up, it makes a vital difference.

I largely agree with Houlliers decisions in terms of discipline, and the way he wants us to play. The reason he has been such a disaster is he hasn't convinced the players, and that is the most important part of his job. Like the independent article said he's done too much too soon and if he has failed to keep the players with him it is terrible management and I can't see a way back for him.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: pestria on March 24, 2011, 09:51:57 AM
Lot of motherhood and apple pie on here.

Of course the senior players should show leadership.  Of course there should be no muggers or criminals - but there are. 

There are always those who grab what they can and look after themselves.  The 'senior' players will be playing premiership football next season, earning premiership wages regardless of whose shirt they're wearing.  They don't care about the current situation because they don't see it as their fault and ultimately it doesn't affect them.

They are now in the process of touting themselves around - hence the media noise.   It's taking the piss but it's inevitable.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: darren woolley on March 24, 2011, 10:03:57 AM
I think it is disgraceful that a player can say that about our club he should just be concentrating on getting out of this mess.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on March 24, 2011, 03:48:58 PM
It make me wonder what the original Old Big Head Cloughie would do if he is Villa manager today.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 24, 2011, 03:54:44 PM
It make me wonder what the original Old Big Head Cloughie would do if he is Villa manager today.
Not a lot.
Players have way more power now than they did in his day.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: jonzy85 on March 24, 2011, 04:08:04 PM
Reactions to Downing's comments a bit over the top no??

I dont think he is being anything but honest.

Let's hope he and all the others on international duty come back rejuvenated from their break from the relegation struggle........and le spoofer.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 24, 2011, 04:20:57 PM
Cant say Downing has said anything out of turn here.
I think theres a bit of over reaction here. With the anger flying about at the moment, if I was a Villa player I wouldnt say anything to anybody abaout anything.....but even then some supporters would call you a disloyal wanker.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Mister E on March 24, 2011, 04:23:03 PM
Wasn't sure where else to put this.
-----------------

Stewart Downing glad to swap focus:

Stewart Downing has admitted the chance to join up with the England squad is a welcome relief from the stress of Villa’s current Premier League plight.

Downing is preparing for England’s Euro 2012 qualifier against Wales with Villa team-mates Darren Bent, Ashley Young and Kyle Walker.

And the 26-year-old is happy to swap his Villa shirt for an England one and revealed the break from club football will benefit all those on international duty.

He said: “It does help you. You are going into a different environment with a different kind of pressure so obviously if you go there and do well it can help bring confidence back to club.

“Sometimes the break does you good, we can also regroup and get some players back from injury and suspension so it has probably come at a good time.

“Then we can get focused and go again because we missed some of those not involved against Wolves.”

If he plays, Downing is likely to come up against Villa defender James Collins, who is set to captain Wales at the Millenium Stadium, and the Middlesbrough-born midfielder could not resist a bit of banter in the build-up to the game.

The winger said: “There are a few Villa lads in the squad so hopefully we can all play a part. Obviously James Collins is in the Wales squad so there will be a bit of rivalry there.

“I’m sure there will be a few texts flying around this week about what is going to happen but that’s what you like in a way. It is enjoyable to play against your mates and wind them up if you can get one over on them.

“I’m looking forward to it because it is a big game and hopefully I’ll be involved.”

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2011/03/23/stewart-downing-glad-to-swap-focus/
This was also in today's Times. Depressing but inevitable that a player seemingly with a reasonable attitude cannot be more supportive of the club.
It all looks like a concerted campaign against Hou ... whether orchestrated by loaded media questioning or a deliberate effort by the palyers. Either way, the club's status might change as a result of players apparently not being able to rally around and save their P'ship status, regardless of their feelings about the Manager.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: jonzy85 on March 24, 2011, 04:26:27 PM
Wasn't sure where else to put this.
-----------------

Stewart Downing glad to swap focus:

Stewart Downing has admitted the chance to join up with the England squad is a welcome relief from the stress of Villa’s current Premier League plight.

Downing is preparing for England’s Euro 2012 qualifier against Wales with Villa team-mates Darren Bent, Ashley Young and Kyle Walker.

And the 26-year-old is happy to swap his Villa shirt for an England one and revealed the break from club football will benefit all those on international duty.

He said: “It does help you. You are going into a different environment with a different kind of pressure so obviously if you go there and do well it can help bring confidence back to club.

“Sometimes the break does you good, we can also regroup and get some players back from injury and suspension so it has probably come at a good time.

“Then we can get focused and go again because we missed some of those not involved against Wolves.”

If he plays, Downing is likely to come up against Villa defender James Collins, who is set to captain Wales at the Millenium Stadium, and the Middlesbrough-born midfielder could not resist a bit of banter in the build-up to the game.

The winger said: “There are a few Villa lads in the squad so hopefully we can all play a part. Obviously James Collins is in the Wales squad so there will be a bit of rivalry there.

“I’m sure there will be a few texts flying around this week about what is going to happen but that’s what you like in a way. It is enjoyable to play against your mates and wind them up if you can get one over on them.

“I’m looking forward to it because it is a big game and hopefully I’ll be involved.”

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2011/03/23/stewart-downing-glad-to-swap-focus/
This was also in today's Times. Depressing but inevitable that a player seemingly with a reasonable attitude cannot be more supportive of the club.
It all looks like a concerted campaign against Hou ... whether orchestrated by loaded media questioning or a deliberate effort by the palyers. Either way, the club's status might change as a result of players apparently not being able to rally around and save their P'ship status, regardless of their feelings about the Manager.

Where, oh where do you get a "concerted campaign against Hou" from the above comments?
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on March 24, 2011, 04:27:19 PM
Good post spot on.

I saw what Downig said, I don't think it's worth getting upset over. What's collins said? I missed that
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Ian. on March 24, 2011, 07:29:01 PM
I can't see anything wrong with what Downing has said. We can all do with a break from it all after the last result.
Hopefully that will be our rock bottom and the squad can take a long look at what is going on and turn it around.
I'm sure people are making up scenarios in there own heads now to help fuel a fire in themselves.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Blackcountry Villa on March 24, 2011, 07:31:14 PM
The players are just as much to blame, they're shit. Especially that little tosser Ashley Young, yet the fans still sing his name every game mainly when he's about to take a free kick. Feck knows why, he'll either hit the wall or lamp it out of play.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: citizenDJ on March 24, 2011, 07:37:10 PM
I honestly cannot see what Downing has said there that has caused offence to people! It struck me as quite a positive remark, really.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Mister E on March 24, 2011, 07:40:04 PM
Jonzy, read the Times piece - I'm not trying to make shite out it but there is a strong sense of (i) the players not taking any responsibility for the position that the team is in, (ii) little / no support for an embattled manager / club, (iii) a line of questioning from reporters implying that Villa / Hou are in the shit, and (iv) everyone revelling in the situation we're in.
My post above expressed my 'take' on all of this by using the words "looks like" - if you don't like my reading of it, well tough shit!
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: cdward on March 24, 2011, 07:57:55 PM
It has to do with the money.
Billionaire owner buys club and starts to splash the cash, with the aim of getting richer.
Manager signs players for large fees and pays them handsomely.
Team fails to break into the big money, billionaire gets cold feet, and tells manager to stop spending money
Manager leaves.
New manager arrives and is told by billionaire, to reduce the amount of money being spent, promote the cheaper younger players and sell the expensive players.
Manager tries to follow through with these orders.
Expensive players do not want to leave, as they will not be paid as handsomely elsewhere (L.Young), some go out on loan, some decide to take a wage drop and transfer away (Davies, Sidwell), others decide to dig in, and see out their contracts.
Manager does not have players on side, they resent being forced to take a drop in income, results go badly, less income generated, the loanees come back, the wage bill is not reduced....
I fear there is only one outcome, if the players dig in their heels, they will stay.
I doubt it, but i hope to God all these players have clauses in their contracts in the event of relegation, their income gets cut, otherwise we will be like Leeds, paying off debt for years.
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 24, 2011, 09:44:52 PM
It has to do with the money.
Billionaire owner buys club and starts to splash the cash, with the aim of getting richer.
Manager signs players for large fees and pays them handsomely.
Team fails to break into the big money, billionaire gets cold feet, and tells manager to stop spending money
Manager leaves.
New manager arrives and is told by billionaire, to reduce the amount of money being spent, promote the cheaper younger players and sell the expensive players.
Manager tries to follow through with these orders.
Expensive players do not want to leave, as they will not be paid as handsomely elsewhere (L.Young), some go out on loan, some decide to take a wage drop and transfer away (Davies, Sidwell), others decide to dig in, and see out their contracts.
Manager does not have players on side, they resent being forced to take a drop in income, results go badly, less income generated, the loanees come back, the wage bill is not reduced....
I fear there is only one outcome, if the players dig in their heels, they will stay.
I doubt it, but i hope to God all these players have clauses in their contracts in the event of relegation, their income gets cut, otherwise we will be like Leeds, paying off debt for years.

Where does 'new manager spends £30m in a week' fit in to this scenario?

Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: stevenjos on March 24, 2011, 10:11:48 PM
It has to do with the money.
Billionaire owner buys club and starts to splash the cash, with the aim of getting richer.
Manager signs players for large fees and pays them handsomely.
Team fails to break into the big money, billionaire gets cold feet, and tells manager to stop spending money
Manager leaves.
New manager arrives and is told by billionaire, to reduce the amount of money being spent, promote the cheaper younger players and sell the expensive players.
Manager tries to follow through with these orders.
Expensive players do not want to leave, as they will not be paid as handsomely elsewhere (L.Young), some go out on loan, some decide to take a wage drop and transfer away (Davies, Sidwell), others decide to dig in, and see out their contracts.
Manager does not have players on side, they resent being forced to take a drop in income, results go badly, less income generated, the loanees come back, the wage bill is not reduced....
I fear there is only one outcome, if the players dig in their heels, they will stay.
I doubt it, but i hope to God all these players have clauses in their contracts in the event of relegation, their income gets cut, otherwise we will be like Leeds, paying off debt for years.

Where does 'new manager spends £30m in a week' fit in to this scenario?



+1 likes...
Title: Re: Players should step up & take their share of responsibility
Post by: JD on March 25, 2011, 03:36:05 AM
I honestly cannot see what Downing has said there that has caused offence to people! It struck me as quite a positive remark, really.

Agree with this. Downing hasn't said anything bad about the Club etc, just that a break may be a good thing and hopefully we will get some players back from injury. As for Collins, don't get me started on this idiot.
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