Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: rjp on March 23, 2011, 12:45:51 PM
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The Football Supporters Federation have launched a petition to introduce safe standing at Premier League/Championship stadia. It looks like they're asking for something similar to what the Germans have.
If you'd like to sign it then click here. (http://www.fsf.org.uk/petitions/safestanding.php?id=&page=sign)
Unfortunately, there's also a BBC article here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/12830836.stm) quoting the Premier League as saying they wouldn't support it and various government types doing the same thing. So it may not get very far but if like me you want standing back then it can't hurt to add your voice.
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This seems to come round every year and whilst I would like to see the return of terracing it isn't going to happen, lost count of the amount of petitions i've signed over the years but it all seems a bit pointless now.
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Difference is this time Hugh Robertson, the sports minister, has said they'll 'listen to the case'.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/22/terracing-government-reintroduce-standing
Doubt it'll happen, but it's worth one last push with the government potentially onside.
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Might as well sign. Takes 20 seconds and can't do any harm.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/12830836.stm
See here though as Premier League will oppose the move.
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Thousands stand every week in seated areas in the Premier League, it would be safer to have safe standing areas because the thousands of fans will continue to stand in front of seats regardless.
As for the notion of children attending games because of seating, what a load of rubbish. I'd bet most kids would prefer standing and being part of the atmosphere, look at away games and you'll see kids stood on their seats having a great time.
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The Germans certainly seem to have found a way to make it work safely. Unfortunately the Powers that Be over here dont seem to want to consider it properly.
It seems a bit unfair when you look at the crowds at open air gigs/festivals etc all standing, jumping, surging etc
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Thousands stand every week in seated areas in the Premier League, it would be safer to have safe standing areas because the thousands of fans will continue to stand in front of seats regardless.
As for the notion of children attending games because of seating, what a load of rubbish. I'd bet most kids would prefer standing and being part of the atmosphere, look at away games and you'll see kids stood on their seats having a great time.
You really, really don't understand do you?
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Great idea, i'm signing up
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Where's the petition to keep standing banned ?
If there is one, I'll sign it !!
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Thousands stand every week in seated areas in the Premier League, it would be safer to have safe standing areas because the thousands of fans will continue to stand in front of seats regardless.
As for the notion of children attending games because of seating, what a load of rubbish. I'd bet most kids would prefer standing and being part of the atmosphere, look at away games and you'll see kids stood on their seats having a great time.
You really, really don't understand do you?
Dave's right. You have a completely blinkered view on this subject.
Have you considered that the kids are standing on their seats as they have no choice if they want to see the game?
Have you ever considered that some people, for whatever reason, can't stand for long periods?
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Petition signed by me.
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Sports minister Hugh Robertson said he would examine the evidence for safe standing but played down any likelihood of a change to the law.
Referring to the prospect of an accident or crowd trouble if terraces were reintroduced, Robertson told the meeting: "The minister's head would be on a spike on Tower Bridge before he could draft a resignation letter."
And that's the crux of the matter. They won't take the risk.
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I'll sign it on the basis that my Rockfords sometimes play me up and it would be nice to stand.
The club won't allow me to bring a rubber doughnut in.
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I think I'm going to not sign it, purely to cancel out Blackcountry Villa's signature.
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If it was passed, where would it go at Villa Park? Bottom of North Stand is the obvious choice.
What would costs be to rip out the seating etc?
Problem was never with standing, but the allocation of tickets etc. Surely in the times of all ticket games we have now then it would be safer?
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Done.
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What would costs be to rip out the seating etc?
Have a Villa v. blues game. No cost at all ! ::)
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I think I'm going to not sign it, purely to cancel out Blackcountry Villa's signature.
*like*
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I can't see us ever going back to standing again it just won't happen at least i don't think so.
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I can't see us ever going back to standing again it just won't happen at least i don't think so.
You just wait until Blackcountry Villa becomes Prime Minister, the great Diplomat that he is.
There will be no seating anywhere in this country.
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I can't see us ever going back to standing again it just won't happen at least i don't think so.
This
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To the people talking about childeren and certain people being unable to stand for long periods, did you think about the prospect that the whole stadium won't all be terraces?
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To the people talking about childeren and certain people being unable to stand for long periods, did you think about the prospect that the whole stadium won't all be terraces?
Personally I was referring to the current situation, especially at away games, which we all have to stand at our seats because some people want to stand.
I have voted for safe standing so that those who want to stand can and those that want to sit can.
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To be honest I have often seen kids at away games unable to see a thing due to everyone standing, if I had a kid (if I havn't already) I would not take them to an away match. Then again it is one of the things I love about away games.
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Until the 96 get justice,you can forget about standing.
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Clubs won't pay to rip out expensive seats to provide cheaper terracing. Plus, while we could have standing areas in either the Lower North or Lower Holte (depending on the maximum number of seats) very few clubs have as ideal areas that could be turned into terracing.
I don't expect to see terracing back in my lifetime.
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It would be interesting if this goes ahead before we redevelop the north stand as it may be included in that!
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signed it
most prem clubs could cope with 10-20% terracing for home fans IMO
sadly I don't think we'll see 28000 in the Holte again
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Just don't expect cheaper tickets.
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Looking at the way Germany have done it, it's possible. But, they'll never be a sensible debate about it in this country, it's just too emotional. Non-starter.
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Just don't expect cheaper tickets.
This is the thing isn't it? If, for arguements sake, the whole lower Holte was converted to standing, it shouldn't really be much more than £20 a ticket, about the same as terracing at the Rugby. Call me cynical, but I think this is the prime reason why the Prem wouldn't go for it.
I'm getting terrace tickets to see St Pauli next month, they're costing 13 euros each.
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If you can have safe standing areas then why not give it consideration ?
Also that way, the people in the seats will be sitting. You wont have kids having to stand on seats at away games or for that matter the old uns having to stand to be able to see. My late Mom was still going to a few away games when she was nearly 80, but it wasnt always ideal if she had to be on her feet for 45 minutes.
(http://www.groundhopping.de/bvbhrog6.jpg)
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(http://www.groundhopping.de/bvbhrog6.jpg)
I've got nothing rational to add to the debate that has'nt already been said time and time again but fuck me backwards that is a stunning site!
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The Sudtribune. Was there last year. That badboy holds 25,000, more even than the old Holte.
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If you can have safe standing areas then why not give it consideration ?
Also that way, the people in the seats will be sitting. You wont have kids having to stand on seats at away games or for that matter the old uns having to stand to be able to see. My late Mom was still going to a few away games when she was nearly 80, but it wasnt always ideal if she had to be on her feet for 45 minutes.
Where would we put the away standing bit?
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Where would we put the away standing bit?
on the expressway?
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Where would we put the away standing bit?
on the expressway?
Yes, that's the right sort of attitude to persuade the authorities that we're all responsible, decent citizens.
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Where would we put the away standing bit?
on the expressway?
Yes, that's the right sort of attitude to persuade the authorities that we're all responsible, decent citizens.
Too late (looking at 'hitman' additions to another thread...!)
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I just do not see this happening. I do not have strong feelings on it, although I would stay in a seat these days.
I do think there is a romantic view of so called 'Ultra' groups and that English terracing would suddenly be populated by thousands of jumping, flag waving, collective singing groups. Although when we had terracing that never really happened. I remember trying to see between the shoulders of taller people, trying not to be in front of the crush barrier (that hurt), and being elbowed in the back if a goal was scored. I remember chanting, but not jumping or big flags (which I would have, and still would hate- I want to see the game not the bedsheet sprayed with 'houllier out', or whatever was flavour of the day).
I think if its safe and certain people want to go there then why not. But I do not think its likely to revert back to that. The biggest plus for me would be, as a grumpy 40 year old, I could go away to Blackburn and know the drunken yoof were in the other bit.
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I think people should get their heads round the whole logistics of this. Granted, Manure and Chelsea might think its a way of getting extra revenue but to most clubs it would be a financial nightmare.
Which chairman in his right mind is going to want to go through the whole process of removing seats and installing barriers - which will have to go through rigorous and expensive safety checks. He'll need to employ more stewards every match day, and it will only take one incident in one ground and the whole lot will have to be cleared out and seats put in again.
I've stood in safe standing in Germany and its a great idea. Its just not logical for existing football stadia and I'm afraid to say it all comes down to money.
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If you want to stand to watch your football, got to a non-league (or even lower league) game.
The same principle applies if you want a reasonable admission fee, a pint in view of the pitch, a game played in the right spirit and a chat with the players afterwards.
Times have moved on and so has top level football. There will be no going back on this, the law was bought in following 96 deaths, there will be no change just because no-one has died since.
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Where would we put the away standing bit?
on the expressway?
Yes, that's the right sort of attitude to persuade the authorities that we're all responsible, decent citizens.
Dave
I don't understand your point on this.
The campaign and the comments from those who support it on here seems to about letting those who want to stand to be able to do so safely, and those who want to sit to be able to do so without hinderance. That's a sensible thing surely?
AP
PS - when did you lose your sense of humour?
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I'm pretty sure thẹ old Holte held 26000! I've been in it when it was rammed and never felt at risk. Thẹ deign of thẹ old Holte meant that a surge at thẹ back could not affect thẹ middle or lower sections, so even though it was old it was safe.
I'm 42 now and would love to be able to stand again. To be able to rock up on match days and meet up with friends was part of thẹ fun. Nowadays everyone's scattered all around thẹ stadium and part of thẹ commaradery has now gone.
Yes, safe standing gets my vote, at thẹ right price. For me I haven't felt thẹ same about it since thẹ old Holte went.
On a side issue, couldn't thẹ club/council designate a certain part of thẹ ground as a standing area and allow standing, but still keep thẹ seats in for half time when people might want to sit. Just a thought!
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I'm 42 now and would love to be able to stand again.
To be fair, so would Stephen Hawking, but it's just not going to happen.
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I think I'll leave it.
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Where would we put the away standing bit?
on the expressway?
Yes, that's the right sort of attitude to persuade the authorities that we're all responsible, decent citizens.
Dave
I don't understand your point on this.
The campaign and the comments from those who support it on here seems to about letting those who want to stand to be able to do so safely, and those who want to sit to be able to do so without hinderance. That's a sensible thing surely?
AP
PS - when did you lose your sense of humour?
Ah, the good old 'it's only a joke' response when a stupid comment is slapped down.
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I'm 42 now and would love to be able to stand again.
To be fair, so would Stephen Hawking, but it's just not going to happen.
Ha!
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Where would we put the away standing bit?
on the expressway?
Yes, that's the right sort of attitude to persuade the authorities that we're all responsible, decent citizens.
Dave
I don't understand your point on this.
The campaign and the comments from those who support it on here seems to about letting those who want to stand to be able to do so safely, and those who want to sit to be able to do so without hinderance. That's a sensible thing surely?
AP
PS - when did you lose your sense of humour?
Ah, the good old 'it's only a joke' response when a stupid comment is slapped down.
Well I thought it was funny....
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This topic is going to be discussed on WM some time after 3.
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On a side issue, couldn't thẹ club/council designate a certain part of thẹ ground as a standing area and allow standing, but still keep thẹ seats in for half time when people might want to sit. Just a thought!
yes. man city do it. they've designated three blocks to the right of the away fans (as you look at the pitch) as a singing section, after writing to to the local authority informing them that supporters would be allowed to stand in this area and no efforts would be made, by stewards, to seat them.
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I doubt it will happen. Even if the Premier League allowed it UEFA still wouldn't so you would have all that terracing going to waste if your team qualified for Europe.
If we did it, I would go for Lower Holte. I imagine there would be no room for an away standing bit at most grounds, sadly. Mind you, fans rarely moan about the 'atmosphere' in away sections anyway. I hear Villa fans moaning about how the Holte is a shadow of its former self, I rarely hear complaints about how Goodison / Bramall Lane / The Sty is not as much fun as it used to be.
Call me cynical, but I reckon the Government know it will never happen and are appearing open-minded on a desperate attempt to win votes.
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Thousands stand every week in seated areas in the Premier League, it would be safer to have safe standing areas because the thousands of fans will continue to stand in front of seats regardless.
As for the notion of children attending games because of seating, what a load of rubbish. I'd bet most kids would prefer standing and being part of the atmosphere, look at away games and you'll see kids stood on their seats having a great time.
You really, really don't understand do you?
Dave's right. You have a completely blinkered view on this subject.
Have you considered that the kids are standing on their seats as they have no choice if they want to see the game?
Have you ever considered that some people, for whatever reason, can't stand for long periods?
You're the ones that don't get it, it's not about making everywhere standing it's about creating an area for people who want to stand so the people who want to sit can do so.
The people you mention who can't stand for long periods would have the choice at away games and wouldn't be forced to stand if they didn't want to, thats the whole point.
What you don't realise is safe standing areas would benefit people who want to sit down just as much. If safe standing areas aren't brought back then the standers will continue to stand regardless, but the ones who want to sit will still have to stand even though they don't want to.
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Blackcountry Villa, have you read this thread and then copied and pasted what I posted yesterday?
To the people talking about childeren and certain people being unable to stand for long periods, did you think about the prospect that the whole stadium won't all be terraces?
Personally I was referring to the current situation, especially at away games, which we all have to stand at our seats because some people want to stand.
I have voted for safe standing so that those who want to stand can and those that want to sit can.
I get it 100%.
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Thousands stand every week in seated areas in the Premier League, it would be safer to have safe standing areas because the thousands of fans will continue to stand in front of seats regardless.
As for the notion of children attending games because of seating, what a load of rubbish. I'd bet most kids would prefer standing and being part of the atmosphere, look at away games and you'll see kids stood on their seats having a great time.
You really, really don't understand do you?
Dave's right. You have a completely blinkered view on this subject.
Have you considered that the kids are standing on their seats as they have no choice if they want to see the game?
Have you ever considered that some people, for whatever reason, can't stand for long periods?
You're the ones that don't get it, it's not about making everywhere standing it's about creating an area for people who want to stand so the people who want to sit can do so.
The people you mention who can't stand for long periods would have the choice at away games and wouldn't be forced to stand if they didn't want to, thats the whole point.
What you don't realise is safe standing areas would benefit people who want to sit down just as much. If safe standing areas aren't brought back then the standers will continue to stand regardless, but the ones who want to sit will still have to stand even though they don't want to.
I 'don't' get it so much I was interviewed on radio this afternoon supporting this petition, as I've supported every similar initiative since the Taylor report, at a time when I suspect you were barely able to stand anywhere. I'm currently writing a feature about it. What have you been doing in the past few hours apart from yet again demonstrating your unerring ability to get peoples' backs up?
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The piece in question:
www.thebirminghampress.com/2011/03/25/standing-around/
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Good piece, Dave.
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Good piece, Dave.
Agreed.
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Which ground is in the picture in the article? Is it Albion?
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The piece in question:
www.thebirminghampress.com/2011/03/25/standing-around/
What's the modern technology used in Germany that you refer to?
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There are two systems used in Germany (or at least two that I have seen personally). One is a series of barriers with seats that fold flat into them, you can fit one or (at a push) two people in between each row, Bremen use this method.
The other I saw at Dortmund uses "wheel out" seats which slot into a groove on the terrace steps and are just wheeled into place for European games.
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1 (http://www.tinneff-blog.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/IMG_0008.jpg)
2 (http://www.brandenblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/photo.jpg)
3 (http://www.bvb-freunde.de/bvblegenden/adi2.jpg)
4 (http://www.livesportfan.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/12092009.jpg)
That end alone holds more than most Premier League stadium.