Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dave Cooper please on March 16, 2011, 06:47:39 PM
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Linky (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366144/Polish-football-fans-offered-huge-80-ticket-discounts-Bath-City-FC.html)
Yes, yes, I know it's the Daily Heil, but this story is doing the rounds of the non-league forums and there is a fairly equal mixture of disgust and praise for the scheme.
My take on the Tamworth forum was that firstly, it's not bloody racist as Poles are by and large the same race as us! And secondly, it's a good idea to try to attract communities who would normally never think about watching Bath City.
What is the difference between a discount for Polish people and a discount for, say, soldiers or firemen? I'm not a soldier (well I was but for the sake of the argument) or a fireman any more than I am a Pole, why should it bother me who gets a one-off discount?
The best question I saw posed on the Bath City forum was along the lines of:
"Ask yourself, are you annoyed because someone is getting a deal, or because that person is Polish. If it's the latter you should be ashamed of yourself. If the former, get over yourselves - this is about one thing only - increasing the awareness/popularity of the club in Bath."
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we should engage the poles in this city (im not saying free tickets), if they are going to have kids in this city they should grow up villa fans
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I thought Bath City was a discount plumber's merchant. You live and learn
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I'm just amazed that you have to actually pay to go and watch someone like Bath City play.
Football really has gone mental.
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Well every club has to earn some sort of money to keep afloat these days.
It's similar to Peter W's old hobby horse, getting the local Asian population near Villa Park involved with the club.
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Kiddy seems to have more Poles per capita than anywhere else in the country so perhaps they should start a scheme in light of their recent financial difficulties.
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It's a good idea to try and attract different groups to various football clubs, it's not a good idea to use discrimination to do it. I'd be surprised if what they're doing isn't illegal.
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It's a good idea to try and attract different groups to various football clubs, it's not a good idea to use discrimination to do it. I'd be surprised if what they're doing isn't illegal.
They cleared through the European courts with regards to discrimination apparently.
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I wonder if there would have been the same level of antipathy in some quarters about the scheme if say it was a large community of Americans in the area they were trying to attract ?
But Poles ? Well its a good job it isnt Swansea City, no doubt the Daily bloody Mail would have been worried about them eating the mascot.
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we should engage the poles in this city .......
I believe John Carew has made sterling efforts in this area
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When I saw the title of the thread I thought they were getting a discount at the local plumbers merchant
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we should engage the poles in this city .......
I believe John Carew has made sterling efforts in this area
Great post
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Some might say that the fans are so divided over this venture that they are poles apart.
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I really can't see why anyone should get so exercised over a one-off promotion such as this. Especially since the medium-to-long-term aim of it is to help to increase the fan base of the club they profess to support and hence make it more financially secure.
Unless of course it is because of other issues that some people have...
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£13 to stand up and watch Bath bloody City Is that the going rate for that league? No wonder they're trying to attract new mug..I mean, supporters, with prices like that.
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Paying £13 for non-league or pushing £20 to watch the utter crap that it Bristol Rovers at the moment, just shows what a good deal we get at Villa Park in terms of ticket prices
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Good idea. Its an old idea but if it gets people through the turnstiles then that can only be a good thing. If . If it doesn't work then fine, at least they tried.
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If they did it every week I could see why there'd be complaints.
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It's a good idea to try and attract different groups to various football clubs, it's not a good idea to use discrimination to do it. I'd be surprised if what they're doing isn't illegal.
They cleared through the European courts with regards to discrimination apparently.
Really? It takes years to get anything through the European courts usually, and it only normally happens when you've exhausted all avenues in your own country.
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I bet the Poles weren't moaning about being put into stands where alcohol was being sold.
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I bet the Poles weren't moaning about being put into stands where alcohol was being sold.
racist.
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I must admit i don't really like the poles since i've been in London i have had a couple of rows with the poles they will rob you as look at you.
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I must admit i don't really like the poles since i've been in London i have had a couple of rows with the poles they will rob you as look at you.
And them pakis smell an'all.
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I expect to see all the enterprising local chavs trying to pass themselves off as Polish.
Do they have chavs in Bath or is it too posh?
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The Polish do like their football, and invariably start looking at the results of English teams (usually Premier League) which have Polish players. Other than that, it seems to be a Beckham obsession.
The Goose in Streatham can get quite "punchy" when Poland play a rival or Lech Poznan are in the Europa League.
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Paying £13 for non-league or pushing £20 to watch the utter crap that it Bristol Rovers at the moment, just shows what a good deal we get at Villa Park in terms of ticket prices
Indeed
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What is the difference between a discount for Polish people and a discount for, say, soldiers or firemen? I'm not a soldier (well I was but for the sake of the argument) or a fireman any more than I am a Pole, why should it bother me who gets a one-off discount?
Not with you on this Dave. A discount to a trade or profession is OK as members are not linked to a a particular group of people. What would you say if an organisation decided to charge more to Poles for something? Clearly we would find that unacceptable and therefor a discount on this basis is equally unacceptable.
I bet you wouldn't find it funny if walking through VP turnstiles I paid less than you?
Having said that if it was a one off event to raise awareness event than it is OK.
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I expect to see all the enterprising local chavs trying to pass themselves off as Polish.
Not sure but I could try I am brown Polish route!
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I must admit i don't really like the poles since i've been in London i have had a couple of rows with the poles .
You should watch where you are going!
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What is the difference between a discount for Polish people and a discount for, say, soldiers or firemen? I'm not a soldier (well I was but for the sake of the argument) or a fireman any more than I am a Pole, why should it bother me who gets a one-off discount?
Not with you on this Dave. A discount to a trade or profession is OK as members are not linked to a a particular group of people. What would you say if an organisation decided to charge more to Poles for something? Clearly we would find that unacceptable and therefor a discount on this basis is equally unacceptable.
I bet you wouldn't find it funny if walking through VP turnstiles I paid less than you?
Having said that if it was a one off event to raise awareness event than it is OK.
You're actually with Dave on this one, because he said it was a one-off.
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I'm sure the Villa did something similar a season or two back when the encouraged the local Asian community to a game v Bolton. I'm not sure what the deal was but I think it was widly well received.
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I bet the Poles weren't moaning about being put into stands where alcohol was being sold.
I would moan about that. It should be free!
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What is the difference between a discount for Polish people and a discount for, say, soldiers or firemen? I'm not a soldier (well I was but for the sake of the argument) or a fireman any more than I am a Pole, why should it bother me who gets a one-off discount?
Not with you on this Dave. A discount to a trade or profession is OK as members are not linked to a a particular group of people. What would you say if an organisation decided to charge more to Poles for something? Clearly we would find that unacceptable and therefor a discount on this basis is equally unacceptable.
I bet you wouldn't find it funny if walking through VP turnstiles I paid less than you?
Having said that if it was a one off event to raise awareness event than it is OK.
You're actually with Dave on this one, because he said it was a one-off.
Doh! Yes read it again. I should qualify for a discount based on my obvious disablity!
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BE and Darren, you're both warned.
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I must admit i don't really like the poles since i've been in London i have had a couple of rows with the poles they will rob you as look at you.
What a load of old shite.
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I must admit i don't really like the poles since i've been in London i have had a couple of rows with the poles they will rob you as look at you.
Try and avoid them then, otherwise, just vault over them next time.
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I must admit i don't really like the poles since i've been in London i have had a couple of rows with the poles they will rob you as look at you.
What a load of old shite.
Spot on, Percy.
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I must admit i don't really like the poles since i've been in London i have had a couple of rows with the poles they will rob you as look at you.
Quite apart from the fact that if you've had 'a couple of arguments', you can only talk about 2 people as opposed to 38 million, you're talking absolute rubbish. Having lived in Poland for four years now, if the Poles living in the UK are treated even half as well as I have been here they'll be very lucky. Rob you? They're more likely to invite you home for a three course meal and to meet the family.
As for the original article, I think it's a great idea, why shouldn't they encourage the local community to attend? I'd imagine that they'll do quite well out of the idea. Football is massively popular over here, and the English teams with Polish players do tend to be popular. Had we signed Boruc when we were linked (before he decided to destroy his own career), I had high hopes of making Villa the number one supported English team in the South of Poland!!!
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Sorry.
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Having lived in Poland for four years now.......... Football is massively popular over here, and the English teams with Polish players do tend to be popular. Had we signed Boruc when we were linked (before he decided to destroy his own career), I had high hopes of making Villa the number one supported English team in the South of Poland!!!
Where do you live in the south? Have good friend in Wroclaw and Opole.
My soon-to-be-family in Szczecin now look out for the Villa results. Well, I tend to get texts with "what the hell happened this week"!
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I must admit i don't really like the poles since i've been in London i have had a couple of rows with the poles they will rob you as look at you.
What a load of old shite.
Spot on, Percy.
yeah, its the Lithuanians you really have to worry about.
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Having lived in Poland for four years now.......... Football is massively popular over here, and the English teams with Polish players do tend to be popular. Had we signed Boruc when we were linked (before he decided to destroy his own career), I had high hopes of making Villa the number one supported English team in the South of Poland!!!
Where do you live in the south? Have good friend in Wroclaw and Opole.
My soon-to-be-family in Szczecin now look out for the Villa results. Well, I tend to get texts with "what the hell happened this week"!
In a small city called Starachowice, near to Kielce. We're about halfway between Cracow and Warsaw.
Wroclaw is a great city, I had a lovely holiday there last year. Not quite up there with Cracow on my favourites list but not far off.
My younger students now know that a positive comment about the Villa in their homework tends to have a favourable impact on their marks.
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The Polish women over here stand out like a sore thumb. Mainly because they're all gorgeous whereas most Manx women are absolute munters.
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The Polish women over here stand out like a sore thumb. Mainly because they're all gorgeous whereas most Manx women are absolute munters.
My theory is that in the UK, the more attractive the woman, the less attractive her personality is as she tends to know how good looking she is. In Poland, it's almost the opposite, you get stunningly attractive women with equally great personalities.
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I think its symptomatic of east European women. Mostly gorgeous but living with God ugly tall, gangly men.
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I think its symptomatic of east European women. Mostly gorgeous but living with God ugly tall, gangly men.
I like to think that I offer an alternative choice for the female population of Poland. A God ugly short, chubby man.
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All the bouncers over here seem to be Polish as well. You wouldn't mess.
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Where do you live in the south? Have good friend in Wroclaw and Opole.
Went to both of those places about 15 years ago- used to be East Germany?. A mate of mine married a Polish lass in Lublin ( a 2 hour service, conducted in Polish.....).
Wroclaw used to have a topless hairdressers in the town centre. There were about 15 English lads over there for the wedding and every one of them popped in for a trim....
We also went to Auschwitz as well.
Darren - not sure which Polish blokes you knock about with in London but most of the ones I know down here are far too busy working their bollocks off and trying to make a decent life for their families to commit robbery.
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I like the Poles. I don't know if it's bad to lump everbody together as a whole, even if it's positive, but they just seem to be an enormously hard working, friendly group of people.
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Where do you live in the south? Have good friend in Wroclaw and Opole.
Went to both of those places about 15 years ago- used to be East Germany?. A mate of mine married a Polish lass in Lublin ( a 2 hour service, conducted in Polish.....).
Wroclaw was Breslau. and Opole was Oppeln, (both in Silesia) until Stalin shifted the borders in 1945. I think they had been "German" for a good few centuries before then.
Wroclaw used to have a topless hairdressers in the town centre.
Knowing my luck I'd get some 18 stone bloke called Pawel.
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I'm actually going to this match, a long arranged day out with a mate who's a Grimsby fan & some others. We're all trying to
remember where we hid our Polish passports.
I hope the scheme does work, should make for a good atmosphere
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I like the Poles. I don't know if it's bad to lump everbody together as a whole, even if it's positive, but they just seem to be an enormously hard working, friendly group of people.
Well, to be fair, not the ones that I encounter in the main.
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I like the Poles. I don't know if it's bad to lump everbody together as a whole, even if it's positive, but they just seem to be an enormously hard working, friendly group of people.
Well, to be fair, not the ones that I encounter in the main.
Don't you mainly hang around prisons and remand centres though?!
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BE and Darren, you're both warned.
I beg your pardon? I didn't know I had overstepped any lines.
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I like the Poles. I don't know if it's bad to lump everbody together as a whole, even if it's positive, but they just seem to be an enormously hard working, friendly group of people.
Well, to be fair, not the ones that I encounter in the main.
Don't you mainly hang around prisons and remand centres though?!
Maybe colours my judgement I guess.
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I am scared of posting anything in this thread in case I get reprimanded for saying something someone does not like. I will post anyway.
I don't like the idea of certain "races" getting discounts because of their race but as a one off I can see the value of it. From what I know, the Poles are much more likely to support their local team due to their roots with football in their home country so something like this could have a positive effect for a team like Bath. I can also see this helping to improve intergration with the British and the Polish community because at the moment their is huge segregation, Poles will mostly sitck with their own. Football is afterall the universal language.
Now for my controversial comment.
I would love Villa to do something like this as I can see the potential for our support to increase in its Polih contingent. I didn't like the way Villa changed certain things when inviting the local Asian community to watch us play due to what was changed in regards to halal meat and no alcohol. The reason for me not liking this is because it continues to segregate the two different cultures, it changes the tradition of things inside the ground (leading the potential for more change) and to be honest I just don't agree with halal methods.
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My soon-to-be-family in Szczecin...
How the hell do you pronounce that?!
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My soon-to-be-family in Szczecin...
How the hell do you pronounce that?!
In laws.
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Good post Slaphead.
Szczecin was Stettin, a German city c. 900 - 1945 give or take to-ing and fro-ing. It's a literal translation. Pronounce it Schechin.
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I bet the Poles weren't moaning about being put into stands where alcohol was being sold.
That's just clicked with me after reading Slaphead's post. So obscure it sounded insulting! But not. To me anyway.
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BE and Darren, you're both warned.
I beg your pardon? I didn't know I had overstepped any lines.
Have you checked your punctuation?
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Good post Slaphead.
Pronounce it Schechin.
Proper pronounciation would be Shchechin
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So can I just confirm most on this site would find it perfectly acceptable if our club were to offer a one off discount, say 50%, to all English citizens? Anyone born outside of England can pay the full price as they are not English!
Sorry, it just sounds a little bit wrong to me but heay ho, go with the flow.
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So can I just confirm most on this site would find it perfectly acceptable if our club were to offer a one off discount, say 50%, to all English citizens? Anyone born outside of England can pay the full price as they are not English!
Sorry, it just sounds a little bit wrong to me but heay ho, go with the flow.
No you can't confirm it. Remind me what nationality the person is who owns the club?
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My point is, is it acceptable to allow any one country a discount but not others?
It seems it is acceptable to allow the Polish a discount (and it may well be) but would everyone feel the same if the discount was offered just to English people?
Just a question.
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My point is, is it acceptable to allow any one country a discount but not others?
It seems it is acceptable to allow the Polish a discount (and it may well be) but would everyone feel the same if the discount was offered just to English people?
Just a question.
If a team outside of England did it, yes, I'd agree. It would be trying to get the local English along to watch their local Polish, German, French team.
This thing is aimed specifically at getting a sizeable local community involved.
We'll get the usual yawn-fest about St Patrick's day and St George's Day next.
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dużych Cappacino.
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So can I just confirm most on this site would find it perfectly acceptable if our club were to offer a one off discount, say 50%, to all English citizens? Anyone born outside of England can pay the full price as they are not English!
Sorry, it just sounds a little bit wrong to me but heay ho, go with the flow.
Had a similar post to this on the Tamworth forum thread on this.
My answer would be that it wouldn't achieve anything because nearly all football fans in this country are English, or at least hold British passports even if they were born outside the country, so as a scheme to involve a group of fans who normally wouldn't watch the club it would be a waste of time.
I'd like to see how the Daily Heil would report it though.
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I bet the Poles weren't moaning about being put into stands where alcohol was being sold.
That's just clicked with me after reading Slaphead's post. So obscure it sounded insulting! But not. To me anyway.
To make things clear: it was a "Hurr, hurr! Poles like a drink or two, don't they?"* comment/lazy stereotype, and an inter-textual reference to when the Villa invited members of the local community to VP and we subsequently had the discussion on here about whether or not they should/should not have placed Muslims in stands where halal/non-halal and soft drinks/alcohol were/weren't being served with the usual "PC gorn mad"/"we must respect other cultures" battle lines being drawn.
I didn't think for a minute it was going to raise eyebrows.
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didn't like the way Villa changed certain things when inviting the local Asian community to watch us play
I've no problemn with you raising your issues about this but you have to start from a factual basis
Villa didn't invite local Asians to a game at Villa Park. They invited all local residents to a game. My Brother in law and nephew took advantage of the offer.
And fair play to Villa for doing it, I reckon.
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My point is, is it acceptable to allow any one country a discount but not others?
It seems it is acceptable to allow the Polish a discount (and it may well be) but would everyone feel the same if the discount was offered just to English people?
Just a question.
I guess the logic behind it would be a one-off fairly sizeable discount wouldn't necessarily generate more English support outside of the individual game in question.
But a one off big discount that targets -and mentions in the press that it is specifically aimed at- the Polish/Pakistani/ Bangladeshi community might introduce them to their local club, make them feel part of the community and *might* result in more coming back and swelling the gate on a longer term basis.
I could have got that completely wrong though.
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My point is, is it acceptable to allow any one country a discount but not others?
It seems it is acceptable to allow the Polish a discount (and it may well be) but would everyone feel the same if the discount was offered just to English people?
Just a question.
didn't like the way Villa changed certain things when inviting the local Asian community to watch us play
I've no problemn with you raising your issues about this but you have to start from a factual basis
Villa didn't invite local Asians to a game at Villa Park. They invited all local residents to a game. My Brother in law and nephew took advantage of the offer.
And fair play to Villa for doing it, I reckon.
It would be naive to think that the offer wasn't aimed at the local Asian community. If Bath invited the local area that happened to be mainly Polish then I don't think there would be as much controversy.
My point is, is it acceptable to allow any one country a discount but not others?
It seems it is acceptable to allow the Polish a discount (and it may well be) but would everyone feel the same if the discount was offered just to English people?
Just a question.
I agree with this post although this is football, every club wants/needs to raise their attendances. In the lower leagues money is less harder to come by so while it may be unethical so invite a certain race to get a discount (why were Indians, Chinese and Albanians not given this offer) it does make good buisiness sense. The Polish have a likelyhood to reattend as football is their national sport.
If the average attendance rises by a hundered because of this then it would be huge for a team like bath.
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Named, Slaphead do you a problem with clubs making offers like this? As far as I can see it is a purely commercial decision trying to encourage people who don't usually attend to go to games. The fact that they have a different ethnicity is incidental.
It's like a supermarket offering stuff cheap as a loss leader to get people into the shop
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Did you actualy read what I wrote? I think I explained myself very well, read and you will see you don't need to actualy ask that questions.
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Did you actualy read what I wrote? I think I explained myself very well, read and you will see you don't need to actualy ask that questions.
Yes you did, sorry my fault, it was a bit of a clumsily worded post. I agree with a lot of what you said except for the bit about not doing anything specific to make people feel more welcome. It's like when you invite people to your house, you make an effort to make them feel at home.
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Chris Smith in apology shocker...
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It's like a supermarket offering stuff cheap as a loss leader to get people into the shop
I think Morrison's offering white printer paper packs as buy one get one free is racist. They should be offering other colour paper on same basis as well. tut tut....
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Chris Smith in apology shocker...
Second time this week, I'm going soft.
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I still think they're acting illegally personally. The Equality Act states that you can't disadvantage a group of people who share the same characteristics (in this case anybody who isn't Polish) which is clearly the case here as anybody who isn't Polish has to pay more to attend the same game. On the other hand, the positive action provision allows you to take action if a group of people are underrepresented in a particular activity, which I suppose is the argument they're taking. However, for that to occur, the group in question has to have a disadvantage that the positive action is designed to overcome. I can't see that there's anything stopping the average Pole from attending Bath City games, the same as anybody else.
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Poles are lucky and privileged. Every time I see some there are half naked girls wrapped around them!
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fridge lights
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Risso, so they might be acting illegally (although they insist that they asked for advice and were told they weren't), but do you agree or disagree with the principle?
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£13 to stand up and watch Bath bloody City Is that the going rate for that league? No wonder they're trying to attract new mug..I mean, supporters, with prices like that.
£13??? I pay £7 to stand and watch Cheltenham!!
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Risso, so they might be acting illegally (although they insist that they asked for advice and were told they weren't), but do you agree or disagree with the principle?
I disagree with it on the whole, as I just think that sort of action has the potential to breed discontent. I'm sure they could have come up with other ways of attracting Polish support without resorting to discrimination.
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didn't like the way Villa changed certain things when inviting the local Asian community to watch us play
I've no problemn with you raising your issues about this but you have to start from a factual basis
Villa didn't invite local Asians to a game at Villa Park. They invited all local residents to a game. My Brother in law and nephew took advantage of the offer.
And fair play to Villa for doing it, I reckon.
Indeed. That's exactly the point and illustrates the difference very well. As I said at the time of that promotion, it was an excellent idea because it's only right and proper for the club to do what it can to get on well with its immediate neighbours.
I agree with Risso's point as well. Although Bath City clearly mean well, what they're doing is discriminatory and could just end up breeding discontent among their existing support. More trouble than it's worth in the end.
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In my experience most non-league supporters are only too glad for anything which gets new fans in.
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Maybe they could just do an offer of say, £3 or £4.00 entrance to everyone who goes to that match?
It could be classed as a kind of thank you for your support price to their regular fans as well maybe encouraging new fans from every background. If they want to aim at getting some of the Polish population, just advertise the game in Polish areas, shops etc.