Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: lovejoy on March 04, 2011, 12:04:22 PM
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I have read a lot in the media about what a stain on society this game is and how the scenes at Celtic Park were those that " none of us want to see". Clearly nobody should go to a match and feel physically threatened but am I alone in watching a match like that and having a tingle of excitement in my veins that football still matters. Surely its better than the pre-packaged soul-less sky premiership nonsense 90% of the English top flight games are?
Also anyone who what Fat Ally said to the Ginger at full time?
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Excitement? Fine. Tingle in veins? Fine. Football mattering? Fine.
Sectarian-based, society dividing, hatred fomenting, violence inducing, safety preventing nastiness? I could live without it.
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I'm sorry but the sooner the two bigot brothers disappear up each others arseholes the better for everyone concerned.
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I have read a lot in the media about what a stain on society this game is and how the scenes at Celtic Park were those that " none of us want to see". Clearly nobody should go to a match and feel physically threatened but am I alone in watching a match like that and having a tingle of excitement in my veins that football still matters. Surely its better than the pre-packaged soul-less sky premiership nonsense 90% of the English top flight games are?
Also anyone who what Fat Ally said to the Ginger at full time?
I think the old firms are brilliant fun to watch, the passion, the boiling over of it all! Its unreal, plus Rangers are my second club and all that..
I think the ginger should have laughed it off, he's just won a very important game, id walk away laughing knowing i had one up on them..
Also the police moaning about the amount of calls relating to the game made and how people drinking is the problem, theyv had old firms on nights before and had the same problem, they dont learn their lesson thats their problem
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Some Scottish minister or whoever has suggested banning the Old Firm games from television. That'd do the SPL TV rights the power of good, people will just be queuing up to watch Motherwell v Falkirk or whatever.
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Villa v Blues, Man City v Man utd, Spurs v Arsenal, Mansfield v Chesterfield, Bristol City v Bristol Rovers, Ipswich v Norwich all have one thing in common, they are footballing rivalries which sometimes go to far
the Celtic v Rangers rivalry has nothing to do with football, its not a football derby game
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Celtic and Rangers are two piss poor teams, they'd strugle in the English Championship.
Their football is irrelevant.
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Celtic and Rangers are two piss poor teams, they'd strugle in the English Championship.
They already are, Think they are called Middlesbrough.
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I don't know the answer, and just out of interest, how many (of the Christian) players from each team currently follow the "wrong" sect?
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I know a few Celtic and Rangers fans, and they do see the rivalry as mainly sporting, even if it does have that added element. It's mainly to those outside of Glasgow that it's 'nothing to do with football'.
Personally I love the games. Two committed sides where the two sets of players, coaches and fans just plain don't like each other!
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I don't know the answer, and just out of interest, how many (of the Christian) players from each team currently follow the "wrong" sect?
deej the religious divide is very interesting here. Tradition would have it that this was a clash between Catholics and Protestants both of Christian base (not sure how many players on the pitch belong to either these days) however two Muslims got sent off. So it's the Muslims ....again ;)
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Shia or Sunni? (winky back)
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Excitement? Fine. Tingle in veins? Fine. Football mattering? Fine.
Sectarian-based, society dividing, hatred fomenting, violence inducing, safety preventing nastiness? I could live without it.
I agree 100%
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I think the old firm games are great
Apparently even domestic violence goes off the scale on the Old Firm weekends in Glasgow
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Shia or Sunni? (winky back)
Burn them both I say being a Wahabi myself!
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/04/neil-lennon-celtic-package-post
The fallout from Wednesday's fiery Old Firm derby has taken a more sinister turn after a suspicious package addressed to the Celtic manager, Neil Lennon, was intercepted at a Royal Mail sorting office in Ayrshire.
The parcel, which is believed to have emanated from Lanarkshire and made to look like it contained an explosive device, was stopped in Saltcoats on Friday morning. It was addressed to Lennon at Celtic's stadium. The manager was accompanied by security officials as he attended Friday's training session with his squad.
A Strathclyde police spokesman said: "We can confirm we are currently investigating a suspicious package discovered at a Royal Mail sorting office in Chapelwell Street, Saltcoats. The package was examined and the incident is being treated as a hoax. Enquiries are ongoing."
Lennon missed Celtic's weekly pre-match media conference on Friday as security talks continued over the affair. It comes in the immediate aftermath of Wednesday's game, at the end of which Lennon clashed on the touchline with the Rangers assistant manager, Ally McCoist.
In January a package containing bullets and also addressed to Lennon was intercepted in Northern Ireland. A report last month claimed the 39-year-old had received a subsequent death threat from a paramilitary organisation.
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Discussion on radio 4 'any questions' at the moment. In reply to the point about violence in the ground and on the pitch leading to a rise in arrests, fights and domestic violence following OF matches, someone on the panel has just said that it is disgraceful compared to those lovely(sic) Man City fans...
Better point (IMO) was from another contributor about asking the clubs what measures they would be taking and asking for a more effective response from 'ordinary people' than re-hashing the tired old saws about 'if you see violence on the pitch you are fired up and take it out on someone else.'
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...and Ally McCoist has a pop at Lennon and gets 2 matches whilst Lennon, for being abused by McCoist gets 4. Truely bizarre.
A spokesman for Rangers stated that McCoist was satisfied with the decision and doin well for a fat cowardly hun.
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...and Ally McCoist has a pop at Lennon and gets 2 matches whilst Lennon, for being abused by McCoist gets 4. Truely bizarre.
A spokesman for Rangers stated that McCoist was satisfied with the decision and doin well for a fat cowardly hun.
All Coisty said was leave my players alone, Lennon took offence to that. "Hun" - thats as bad as "feenian", dont get into that shite
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I don't mind you lovejoy but that's a daft post.
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Lennon would have got a two match ban as well had he not already needed to be disciplined by the SFA this season. If you offend again you get a harsher punishment.
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He should get an additional ten for being such an ugly bastard.
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Just seems iniquitous that a guy starts a fight and the bloke who reacts gets a bigger punishment, but I suppose Lennon is an easy target. Sorry I've picked up the "Hun" parlance from an Aberdeen fans I know I think its derogatory but was unaware there was a sectarian connotation.
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Sorry I've picked up the "Hun" parlance from an Aberdeen fans I know I think its derogatory but was unaware there was a sectarian connotation.
Where did you think it would be from?!
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To be fair this guy hates Rangers but never mentions religion its all to do with them being the establishment team.
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Just seems iniquitous that a guy starts a fight and the bloke who reacts gets a bigger punishment, but I suppose Lennon is an easy target. Sorry I've picked up the "Hun" parlance from an Aberdeen fans I know I think its derogatory but was unaware there was a sectarian connotation.
All McCoist said was leave my players alone. Lennon's been goading them for weeks and he's always been a dirty little gobshite
In all fairness to your mate, if he doesn't know what that means he's living a sheltered life up there...
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I had this arguement with a guy at a party last week, and my point is that football is more important than all that religious/racist bullshit. The beautiful game is bigger and better than all that secterian/holocaust bollocks, frankly. Football is bigger than any religion and if treated properly could be the best way to cross boundaries and divides.
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Just seems iniquitous that a guy starts a fight and the bloke who reacts gets a bigger punishment, but I suppose Lennon is an easy target. Sorry I've picked up the "Hun" parlance from an Aberdeen fans I know I think its derogatory but was unaware there was a sectarian connotation.
As well he should.
He's a ginger.
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Aberdeen fans dislike Rangers almost as much as Celtic fans.
Most of them are still pissed off about Mark Hateley and 91.
I had this arguement with a guy at a party last week, and my point is that football is more important than all that religious/racist bullshit. The beautiful game is bigger and better than all that secterian/holocaust bollocks, frankly. Football is bigger than any religion and if treated properly could be the best way to cross boundaries and divides.
I agree with you but amongst some elements in Glasgow that would be laughed at.
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Don't get the interest in the Old Firm - people having one of them as second team etc. You would think they would be bored to death with playing each 4/5 times every year.
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Seven times this year.
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Seven times this year.
It must be like a Tennants induced Ground Hog Day.................
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Don't get the interest in the Old Firm - people having one of them as second team etc. You would think they would be bored to death with playing each 4/5 times every year.
There my 2nd team through one half of my family being all Rangers. I would get seriously bored of playing blose that many times. But my Uncle gets heated and passionate about it every single time. He's not into that sectarian shite, in fact his wife is a catholic and like many others its the love of his team rather than a hatred of the other religion. Most of them up there aren't into any of that bollocks. But its chunk who do ruin it completely unfortunately...
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...and Ally McCoist has a pop at Lennon and gets 2 matches whilst Lennon, for being abused by McCoist gets 4. Truely bizarre.
A spokesman for Rangers stated that McCoist was satisfied with the decision and doin well for a fat cowardly hun.
All Coisty said was leave my players alone, Lennon took offence to that. "Hun" - thats as bad as "feenian", dont get into that shite
Correct.
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Fuck the pair of them, the sooner both cease to exist the better the world will be. How any Villa fan has Rangers as a favourite team after what those twats did at VP is beyond me.
Come on the Accies!!!
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Fuck the pair of them, the sooner both cease to exist the better the world will be. How any Villa fan has Rangers as a favourite team after what those twats did at VP is beyond me.
Come on the Accies!!!
I don't remember that - what was it?
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Seven times this year.
And they get better with every game.
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Fuck the pair of them, the sooner both cease to exist the better the world will be. How any Villa fan has Rangers as a favourite team after what those twats did at VP is beyond me.
Come on the Accies!!!
I don't remember that - what was it?
During a friendly in the 70's Rangers fans invaded the Holte en masse. I'm sure the ones who were there can tell you about the actual experience of it.
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Fuck the pair of them, the sooner both cease to exist the better the world will be. How any Villa fan has Rangers as a favourite team after what those twats did at VP is beyond me.
Come on the Accies!!!
I don't remember that - what was it?
During a friendly in the 70's Rangers fans invaded the Holte en masse. I'm sure the ones who were there can tell you about the actual experience of it.
One of my recollections of that day was the number of pubs in Birmingham that closed - probably for self preservation.
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They kicked fuck out of Manchester 2 or 3 years ago too, am afraid it's drink that's the biggest problem, they just don't stop .
if these 2 clubs are still supposedly big clubs in 15 years from now I'd be surprised, theyre dieing on their arses and are the next dodos if you ask me!
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Fuck the pair of them, the sooner both cease to exist the better the world will be. How any Villa fan has Rangers as a favourite team after what those twats did at VP is beyond me.
Come on the Accies!!!
I don't remember that - what was it?
During a friendly in the 70's Rangers fans invaded the Holte en masse. I'm sure the ones who were there can tell you about the actual experience of it.
One of my recollections of that day was the number of pubs in Birmingham that closed - probably for self preservation.
It was the 'friendly' to end all 'friendlies'. On the way to the ground we got dog's abuse from Rangers fans but thought we'd be safe once we were inside. At the turnstiles we could see that the Holte End was full of them, so conceded defeat and went home. I've never seen anything like that at Villa Park before or since.
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i was in the Rangers London Loyal pub earlier, the old firm thing is a sad stupid devisive sectarian load of bollocks.
These people are living in the dark ages,when you understand the arrangements that have to be made every time they meet, road blocks for miles, a large part of the city becomes a no go zone, and then afterwards the A&E wards and police cells go into overtime. And every year they share the same trophys. The whole thing is meaningless except for those that wear predjudice as a badge of honour.
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The whole thing is meaningless except for those that wear predjudice as a badge of honour.
My uncle's don't wear that predjudice badge, and know Celtic fan's that dont believe in any of that. They hate Celtic because they share the city and they compete honours. Obviously theres the Celtic element, but there not all the same, in fact, many aren't like that at all
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The only reason people who live outside of Glasgow support Rangers or Celtic is because they are either:
1. Glory hunting - choosing a successful side to tag on to. How can you take anyone seriously who does that
2. Using the club to represent their religion. Disgraceful. How can you take anyone seriously who does that
As bad as Man United fans from Watford ( who all seem to have a nan from Salford).
And, yes, after what Rangers did in 76 at Villa Park.....
McCoist looks like some sort of failed 70s porn star, Lennon is truly a ginger gibbon, jumping around, waving his arms and flaring his nostrils.
Anyone who tells me they're a Rangers or Celtic fan and they're not from Glasgow get the same reaction from me. I laugh at them. There's never been a single one of them who has managed to successfully justify to me why they should support them
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I like the matches though.
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The only reason people who live outside of Glasgow support Rangers or Celtic is because they are either:
1. Glory hunting - choosing a successful side to tag on to. How can you take anyone seriously who does that
2. Using the club to represent their religion. How can you take anyone seriously who does that
As bad as Man United fans from Watford ( who all sem to have a nan from Salford).
Spot on Chico. I couldn't give a flying fuck about either team, and one of the remaining good things about football is that that pair of shit clubs doesn't play in the English league. All that sectarian bollocks is beyond sad.
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The only reason people who live outside of Glasgow support Rangers or Celtic is because they are either:
1. Glory hunting - choosing a successful side to tag on to. How can you take anyone seriously who does that
2. Using the club to represent their religion. How can you take anyone seriously who does that
As bad as Man United fans from Watford ( who all sem to have a nan from Salford).
Spot on Chico. I couldn't give a flying fuck about either team, and one of the remaining good things about football is that that pair of shit clubs doesn't play in the English league. All that sectarian bollocks is beyond sad.
Totally agree with the pair of you. Fuck Rangers and Fuck Celtic.
None of those teams get me tingling
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They kicked fuck out of Manchester 2 or 3 years ago too, am afraid it's drink that's the biggest problem, they just don't stop .
My friend's skiffle band (Railroad Bill) were playing in a pub in Manchester on that day.
The Rangers fans couldn't understand why a band playing music from c.1957 on washboard. banjo and tea-chest bass, couldn't play "Simply the Best" by Tina Turner.
In the end, they improvised after threats of violence with beer bottles.
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They kicked fuck out of Manchester 2 or 3 years ago too, am afraid it's drink that's the biggest problem, they just don't stop .
Indeed they did, absolute scum of the earth. Rangers fans make Knuckledraggers look like a sunday school outing.
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I really couldn't care less about Celtic/Rangers in terms of a Scottish angle. Its always interesting to see who has won for me, and I'll sometimes have a peek when they're playing. I only saw the final whistle scenes on the news and thought they were brilliant in a funny type of way.
Not sure what was said by McCoist must have said something as Lennon responded with a shouting of 'He did touch me/barge me' or whatever it was. I mean they're both classless but it was a great advert for the rivallry around the pitch.
As for the follow ons, such as trouble between the fans to domestic violence that's another thing. Although how they can hold players/teams responsible for the actions of thugs and idiots is beyond me. Its one thing doing it to another football fan - but to go home, beat the wife (and them Oldham bastards as man city used to sing) is quite disingenuous and shouldn't be mentioned in connection with any issues raised about public standards.
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OK I consider myself open minded I am clearly in a minority on this forum in thinking that a villa game vs celtic or rangers is more appealing than a game vs wigan or blackburn. The buzz I get out ot watching rangers against celtic is not shared by everyone and they'd prefer to watch the fun of wigan blackburn or fulham sunderland, each to their own I suppose.
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OK I consider myself open minded I am clearly in a minority on this forum in thinking that a villa game vs celtic or rangers is more appealing than a game vs wogan or blackburn. The buzz I get out ot watching rangers against celtic is not shared by everyone and they'd prefer to watch the fun of wigan blackburn or fulham sunderland each to their own I suppose.
Why not watch Molde vs Rosenborg or Grasshoppers vs FC Zurich?
It's just as interesting as Rangers vs Celtic but with far less twats involved.
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OK I consider myself open minded I am clearly in a minority on this forum in thinking that a villa game vs celtic or rangers is more appealing than a game vs wogan or blackburn. The buzz I get out ot watching rangers against celtic is not shared by everyone and they'd prefer to watch the fun of wigan blackburn or fulham sunderland each to their own I suppose.
Why not watch Molde vs Rosenborg or Grasshoppers vs FC Zurich?
It's just as interesting as Rangers vs Celtic but with far less twats involved.
Go ahead you enjoy the atmosphere and the passion of those games then. Each to their own as I said.
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OK I consider myself open minded I am clearly in a minority on this forum in thinking that a villa game vs celtic or rangers is more appealing than a game vs wogan or blackburn. The buzz I get out ot watching rangers against celtic is not shared by everyone and they'd prefer to watch the fun of wigan blackburn or fulham sunderland each to their own I suppose.
Why not watch Molde vs Rosenborg or Grasshoppers vs FC Zurich?
It's just as interesting as Rangers vs Celtic but with far less twats involved.
Go ahead you enjoy the atmosphere and the passion of those games then. Each to their own as I said.
Yes, because the passion and the atmosphere at one irrelevant and tedious local derby will be so much worse than at another.
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Please tell me if you watch the modle derbys every time they're plaed and that you ignore the glasgow ones?
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Please tell me if you watch the modle derbys every time they're plaed and that you ignore the glasgow ones?
Nope, I'm quite happy to accept that one is as pointless as the other.
I'd be interested to hear your logic as to why the Glasgow one is more interesting and important though.
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What's a modle derby?
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Dave I find the old firm games vibrant lively and exciting. the undercurrent of aggression and importance of the occaision add to this mix. They are very rarely dull. I am not sure what the beef is here if you find them dull then don't watch. I still stand by my earlier assertion that if Celtic and Rangers were to play in the premier league the attendance would be bigger than for the blackburn, wigan games, the teams they'd likely replace.
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What's a modle derby?
Dunno but it sounds exciting doesn't it?
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Dave I find the old firm games vibrant lively and exciting. the undercurrent of aggression and importance of the occaision add to this mix. They are very rarely dull. I am not sure what the beef is here if you find them dull then don't watch. I still stand by my earlier assertion that if Celtic and Rangers were to play in the premier league the attendance would be bigger than for the blackburn, wigan games, the teams they'd likely replace.
I agree that there would be a lot more interest, but would it be worth all the trouble that fixtures like these would inevitably cause. Not IMO.
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Dave I find the old firm games vibrant lively and exciting. the undercurrent of aggression and importance of the occaision add to this mix. They are very rarely dull. I am not sure what the beef is here if you find them dull then don't watch. I still stand by my earlier assertion that if Celtic and Rangers were to play in the premier league the attendance would be bigger than for the blackburn, wigan games, the teams they'd likely replace.
I agree that there would be a lot more interest, but would it be worth all the trouble that fixtures like these would inevitably cause. Not IMO.
And with their share of the TV money they would quickly become far stronger than us financially.
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Dave I find the old firm games vibrant lively and exciting. the undercurrent of aggression and importance of the occaision add to this mix. They are very rarely dull. I am not sure what the beef is here if you find them dull then don't watch. I still stand by my earlier assertion that if Celtic and Rangers were to play in the premier league the attendance would be bigger than for the blackburn, wigan games, the teams they'd likely replace.
I agree that there would be a lot more interest, but would it be worth all the trouble that fixtures like these would inevitably cause. Not IMO.
And with their share of the TV money they would quickly become far stronger than us financially.
very true Peter, you only have to look over here and the support the 2 of them have, give them money and you would be looking at a top 6 in the premier league, pushing the likes of us out of eurpeaan contention altogether
the ones going on about the violence, nothing ever happens when we meet the blues does it?
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Excitement? Fine. Tingle in veins? Fine. Football mattering? Fine.
Sectarian-based, society dividing, hatred fomenting, violence inducing, safety preventing nastiness? I could live without it.
In that case - stand by for the next World Cup in Russia with those wonderfully multiculturally-aware home fans and their mischievous penchant for throwing burning flares all over the shop. We could get nostalgic for vuvuzelas.
ok, maybe not that nostalgic. But elements of Russian and east european crowds still seem to find the concept of black players a bit novel. The clubs and national FAs are still at the 1960's/70's stage (it's nothing to do with us) from what I remember of chants in the old first division.
The Old Firm and some Noses remind me of what the bad old days used to be like.
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ok, maybe not that nostalgic. But elements of Russian and east european crowds still seem to find the concept of black players a bit novel. The clubs and national FAs are still at the 1960's/70's stage (it's nothing to do with us) from what I remember of chants in the old first division.
6 out of 10 Russian men has either a mullet or a 70s pornstar perm.
So I guess you're right.
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I still stand by my earlier assertion that if Celtic and Rangers were to play in the premier league the attendance would be bigger than for the blackburn, wigan games, the teams they'd likely replace.
Would you still stand by your assertion if it was Villa being replaced by Celtic or Rangers?
If Celtic and Rangers are so desperate to join the gravy train, let them join the conference league and work their way up like every other club has to
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Excitement? Fine. Tingle in veins? Fine. Football mattering? Fine.
Sectarian-based, society dividing, hatred fomenting, violence inducing, safety preventing nastiness? I could live without it.
In that case - stand by for the next World Cup in Russia with those wonderfully multiculturally-aware home fans and their mischievous penchant for throwing burning flares all over the shop. We could get nostalgic for vuvuzelas.
ok, maybe not that nostalgic. But elements of Russian and east european crowds still seem to find the concept of black players a bit novel. The clubs and national FAs are still at the 1960's/70's stage (i.e. the fans' racism's nothing to do with us) from what I remember of chants in the old first division.
The Old Firm and some Noses remind me of what the bad old days used to be like.
This thread reminded me of the Old Firm and then I remembered posting as above. It hasn't inspired me to think it's got any better since then, really.
oops - mod help, please ! could you move this to the robert carlos thread? I've got my quoting and replying messed up. Sigh. It's friday...
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I don't know the answer, and just out of interest, how many (of the Christian) players from each team currently follow the "wrong" sect?
deej the religious divide is very interesting here. Tradition would have it that this was a clash between Catholics and Protestants both of Christian base (not sure how many players on the pitch belong to either these days) however two Muslims got sent off. So it's the Muslims ....again ;)
A not-so-apocryphal tale, Deej: Bloke walks into a bar in Belfast/Glasgow. Fella walks up to him and asks if he's a Prod or a Tim. The man replies "I'm an atheist". His interrogator continues, undeterred, 'Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?"
You don't have to believe in God to be a Muslim/Christian/Jew. It's more often a description foisted upon you by bigots or a tribe of identity you choose as a riposte to bigots. God or faith in that god is rarely part of the equation.
The Old Firm is pantomime writ large; totemic goodies and baddies. I have about as much interest in Irish Republicanism as I have in Loyalism, and about as much active support for either as I do in the cause of veal calves or democracy in Burma: that being, with brutal honesty, almost none.
That said, I find songs sung by Celtic fans riduculing the Queen far funnier than those sung by Protestants ridiculing the Pope (not less offensive, just funnier) because I was born into a largely secular Irish Catholic family background.
So, yes, and circuitously, back to the original question, I do find Old Firm games have an edge to them that no equivalent game in the SPL or the EPL have. Maybe only Barca vs. Real comes close in terms of extra-footballing significance.