Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Louzie0 on March 02, 2011, 11:22:14 PM
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ok I am pissed off tonight but that's because we lost to MC and could have had Reading in the next round de dah de dah de dah
just want to not lose the fact that our young players did us proud tonight especially when they kept the ball
that the established players did their best, with the young uns especially when they kept the ball
and that our fans were ace when they sang and especially when they kept the ball
We are still on course this season in the pl (especially when we keep the ball) so get a grip...
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Balls
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Our young players' confidence may have been massively damaged by playing too many at once and playing some (Delfouneso and Herd) massively out of position.
The established players, especially Petrov and Heskey, were gash.
Boasting about 'our fans being ace' is the sort of small-time shit I would expect from an Albion fan. I would rather we give our 'ace' fans something to cheer about.
If 'still on course' equals 12th and out of all the cups then I would rather be off course thanks.
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LouzieO, were you at the match tonight? If you were, you would know that there were no redeeming aspects to it whatsoever.
Frankly, your post is bollocks.
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Did we really need another thread saying the same things?
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Actually i agree with you Louzie0, it ent the end of the world, we'll get over it. Worse things happen..
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That's alright then
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I'm currently gripping tightly on to a handgun. Our club is sinking, but it's ok we're on course for 12th-16th in the league!! I'm now dancing round my handgun!
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BBNCCW? Hmm... I love the subtlety. "Birmingham Blue Nose Carling Cup Winner" by chance?
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Did we really need another thread saying the same things?
No - I thought we could look forward
we have superb young players
and some very talented seniors
daft - I know - but I thought we could anticipate a positive end to the season.
Guess I'm on my own.
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And lost of shit results
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BBNCCW? Hmm... I love the subtlety. "Birmingham Blue Nose Carling Cup Winner" by chance?
It's not like we needed the Enigma machine to crack it is it?
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What pisses me off is the cups are our only chance of winning things and we in recent years have played weakened teams and gone out too often too easily, mon , kevmac and GED have all been guilty of this, we are not going to win the title so please let's show the cups some respect and try to win them.
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BBNCCW? Hmm... I love the subtlety. "Birmingham Blue Nose Carling Cup Winner" by chance
No it's my log number in for my account at work... but now that's all I'll think of tomorrow when I sign in :(
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We should be optimistic and look forward to a positive end of the season. 8th place is so much better than boring old trips to Wembley and the possibility of maybe winning THAT cup.
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BBNCCW? Hmm... I love the subtlety. "Birmingham Blue Nose Carling Cup Winner" by chance
No it's my log number in for my account at work... but now that's all I'll think of tomorrow when I sign in :(
Bloody hell! A nose that holds down a job!
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Are well 55 years now since we won it all for 12 th in the league
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Yes, log in number made up of letters? That'd make a great username. Your trolling is worse than Zigic's touch.
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ok I am pissed off tonight but that's because we lost to MC and could have had Reading in the next round de dah de dah de dah
just want to not lose the fact that our young players did us proud tonight especially when they kept the ball
that the established players did their best, with the young uns especially when they kept the ball
and that our fans were ace when they sang and especially when they kept the ball
We are still on course this season in the pl (especially when we keep the ball) so get a grip...
Balls
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Yes, log in number made up of letters? That'd make a great username. Your trolling is worse than Zigic's touch.
Actually it has 4 numbers on the end that I didn't bother putting on my username. Just wanted to use something I could remember, but cheers for welcoming a new poster. My husbands a Blues fan, so I know plenty about how shit Zigic is thankyou very much.
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Are well 55 years now since we won it all for 12 th in the league
6th is still up for grabs and were not garuntee'd safety. Id rather stay up thankyou very much. And going for it next year. Have a sleep, calm down and think about it tomorow
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Alex sorry that's bollocks we ain't gonna finish 6th or7 th, he totally fucked it up tonight as he did against liverpoolvetc. Right I going and dream about our glorious draw against blackpool
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Alex sorry that's bollocks we ain't gonna finish 6th or7 th, he totally fucked it up tonight as he did against liverpoolvetc. Right I going and dream about our glorious draw against blackpool
Why ent we? Its possible, european football is possible. Stop being so defeatist
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Alex sorry that's bollocks we ain't gonna finish 6th or7 th, he totally fucked it up tonight as he did against liverpoolvetc. Right I going and dream about our glorious draw against blackpool
Why ent we? Its possible, european football is possible. Stop being so defeatist
European football is possible via the FA Cup as well.
The hell with boring trips to Wembley, hold on to your hats for the non stop thrill fest of trying to finish 8th (or 6th, or 12th, or 9th etc)
And if you believe we can finish 6th then surely that means there is no threat of relegation? Unless a side that's good enough to finish 6th is also bad enough to get relegated, which doesn't make much sense really.
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Alex sorry that's bollocks we ain't gonna finish 6th or7 th, he totally fucked it up tonight as he did against liverpoolvetc. Right I going and dream about our glorious draw against blackpool
Why ent we? Its possible, european football is possible. Stop being so defeatist
European football is possible via the FA Cup as well.
The hell with boring trips to Wembley, hold on to your hats for the non stop thrill fest of trying to finish 8th (or 6th, or 12th, or 9th etc)
And if you believe we can finish 6th then surely that means there is no threat of relegation? Unless a side that's good enough to finish 6th is also bad enough to get relegated, which doesn't make much sense really.
Of course id love trips back to wembley, but it hasnt happened this year, it doesnt happen to often in our recent history, we were spoiled last season. No its so unpredictable this year that the next few games will show wether were going to be battling relagtion or challenging for europe. Time will tell, lets just calm down and get behind the team, moaning and whining isnt going to help
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Alex sorry that's bollocks we ain't gonna finish 6th or7 th, he totally fucked it up tonight as he did against liverpoolvetc. Right I going and dream about our glorious draw against blackpool
Why ent we? Its possible, european football is possible. Stop being so defeatist
European football is possible via the FA Cup as well.
The hell with boring trips to Wembley, hold on to your hats for the non stop thrill fest of trying to finish 8th (or 6th, or 12th, or 9th etc)
And if you believe we can finish 6th then surely that means there is no threat of relegation? Unless a side that's good enough to finish 6th is also bad enough to get relegated, which doesn't make much sense really.
Of course id love trips back to wembley, but it hasnt happened this year, it doesnt happen to often in our recent history, we were spoiled last season. No its so unpredictable this year that the next few games will show wether were going to be battling relagtion or challenging for europe. Time will tell, lets just calm down and get behind the team, moaning and whining isnt going to help
There is every possibility that 6th won't get a European place, depending on who gets to the final and/or wins it. I saw nothing from City tonight that suggested we couldn't have got at least a draw with a stronger starting 11. Reading at home in the QF is a wet dream draw, win that and guess what, we would have been back at Wembley again.
We won't finish 6th, same as we won't be relegated, who we rested or played tonight won't change that. We'll finish 8th-14th and for that we gave up tonight.
And I will be behind the team next match regardless, doesn't mean have I to be behind the manager or not vent how thoroughly fucked off I am with tonight.
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Originally poster, I presume as you posted this at 11.21pm and you are from Down Sarf.
I get the hunch you didn't spend 100 quid on the pretence we were going to try and win th egame.
If you did, you would be thinking very differently now, thats all I can say.
However, you'll be tucked up in bed now, however, I am wide awake having just walked through the door at 1.21 !
So yeah - maybe I am a tad annoyed AND I SHOULD BE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ok I am pissed off tonight but that's because we lost to MC and could have had Reading in the next round de dah de dah de dah
just want to not lose the fact that our young players did us proud tonight especially when they kept the ball
that the established players did their best, with the young uns especially when they kept the ball
and that our fans were ace when they sang and especially when they kept the ball
We are still on course this season in the pl (especially when we keep the ball) so get a grip...
We lost the ball all night. You must have watched a different game to me.
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Yeah, get a grip!
Get a fuckin grip!
I Do wanna get a close grip of this old french twat and kick the hell out of his brain! I'm really THAT pissed!
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A short rant but a good one! :)
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Last night wa the future!
With all the high earners having to be sold in the summer to get the wage bill down we are gonna have to rely on the young lads alot more.
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The only posotive I can take is that Herd did well, GH can't have learnt anything from that selection!
Delph at LB? Heskey? Gabby on wing? Fonz completely isolated!
We aint seen sight of Bannan for weeks then he plays him in a game we have no chance of winning, watch him disappear again! Will do his confidence no good at all. I've slept on it and im still pissed off
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ok I am pissed off tonight but that's because we lost to MC and could have had Reading in the next round de dah de dah de dah
just want to not lose the fact that our young players did us proud tonight especially when they kept the ball
that the established players did their best, with the young uns especially when they kept the ball
and that our fans were ace when they sang and especially when they kept the ball
We are still on course this season in the pl (especially when we keep the ball) so get a grip...
Are you ironic, I suppose?
It's clear that Mr HoolaKop had no intention of winning the game.
He deliberately choosed to go out of the Fa Cup in order to concentrate on the battle to avoid relegation.
He thinks that te only target of a team with the likes of Albrighton, Bent, Downing, A. Young, Walker and Delph must be the safety. That's incredible. He doesn't understand that in England the FA Cup is important, unlike in France.
Sad to say but with this manager we have made several steps behind.
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ok I am pissed off tonight but that's because we lost to MC and could have had Reading in the next round de dah de dah de dah
just want to not lose the fact that our young players did us proud tonight especially when they kept the ball
that the established players did their best, with the young uns especially when they kept the ball
and that our fans were ace when they sang and especially when they kept the ball
We are still on course this season in the pl (especially when we keep the ball) so get a grip...
We lost the ball all night.
Except when it went into the crowd.
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We can ping the ball around all we like. The commentators mentioned it when we had three minutes of possession towards the end of the first half. However, 80% of that possession was in our own half when we were 2-0 down. Man City probably would have let any team do that in this scenario. We didn't hurt them at all and were no threat to them.
I have to agree with the OP though that some of the comments on the site have been over the top, and that's despite me not liking the fact we put up the white flag again.
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Possession in football is pretty pointless if you do nothing with it or contain it to pretty triangles in the centr circle. Houllier is Tony Mowbray, wrapped up slightly better against the winter cold and with less of the pantomime dame look about him. His technical qualifications and experience haven't got me fooled. His arrogance and excuses only frustrate. He will take us, aesthetically improved, absolutely nowhere except potentially oblivion.
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Last night I wanted to get a grip.... with my hands round Houlliers throat.
This morning I still do.
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Had very little sleep after last nights fiasco, what kind of a message does it send out to football, we pride ourselves on being a big club that can compete for honours, now we are just a club that aim to stay up, and weaken our side for cup games.
What does it say to the liked of downing, young etc who joined the club for a better chance of success and winning things? The cups are our only hope of trophies and if we can't take them seriously then it's a very sad day indeed.
As a statement of lack of ambition , last night has set us back a long way in the eyes of many, and players thinking of joining villa would maybe now think again- we stopped being a big club last night and the manager is to blame.
I have backed GED but last night leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth and I feel so totally deflated about our great club this morning, I will put on a DVD of past glories and remember the good times!
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Possession in football is pretty pointless if you do nothing with it or contain it to pretty triangles in the centr circle. Houllier is Tony Mowbray, wrapped up slightly better against the winter cold and with less of the pantomime dame look about him. His technical qualifications and experience haven't got me fooled. His arrogance and excuses only frustrate. He will take us, aesthetically improved, absolutely nowhere except potentially oblivion.
Where is that "LIKE" button?
Chris is spot on and exactly what I texted to a friend of mine - we try to be Barcelona in our own half only for 9 out of 10 field players nowhere to be seen when we cross the middle line.
I have never been a Petrov apologist (despite being a big fan) and he was really poor last night (although I don't think he was the worse of our three midfielders), but what worries me much more was his body language. He looked like he doesn't believe and I've watched him for ages - he has never been that way! He looked like a man shocked by the managers drop of guard and totally lost. I really do thing last night's management decission is going to be BIG in terms of players' opinion on the Villa future.
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ok I am pissed off tonight but that's because we lost to MC and could have had Reading in the next round de dah de dah de dah
just want to not lose the fact that our young players did us proud tonight especially when they kept the ball
that the established players did their best, with the young uns especially when they kept the ball
and that our fans were ace when they sang and especially when they kept the ball
We are still on course this season in the pl (especially when we keep the ball) so get a grip...
You just have not got a clue have you?
We're the Villa for fucks sake
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I'm quite shocked by the rudeness of you all to a fellow poster. It's not like he's on the holocaust denial thread or anything.
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Our young players' confidence may have been massively damaged by playing too many at once and playing some (Delfouneso and Herd) massively out of position.
The established players, especially Petrov and Heskey, were gash.
Boasting about 'our fans being ace' is the sort of small-time shit I would expect from an Albion fan. I would rather we give our 'ace' fans something to cheer about.
If 'still on course' equals 12th and out of all the cups then I would rather be off course thanks.
Spot on with that comment just to add Gabby to those two, I would be quite happy if Petrov and Heskey didnt play for us again.
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I thought Herd gave it a real go last night, which suggested he may have a part to play in coming years.
As others have said there is no need for folks to take out their anger on other posters, much as I do understand peoples fury because whatever the reasoning behind the team selection (I've given my own view elsewhere) it was really crap last night.
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I slept on it ,and its still shit but hey ho move on.
But I really do fear for future under him
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If you really think about what he did and said, it means that unless we spend stupid money in the summer, he has settled for us to be mid table mediocrity merchants.
Imagine saying our first strength team couldnt beat City anyway, so why bother playing them?
If that is his attitude, where will we be next year?
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If you really think about what he did and said, it means that unless we spend stupid money in the summer, he has settled for us to be mid table mediocrity merchants.
Imagine saying our first strength team couldnt beat City anyway, so why bother playing them?
If that is his attitude, where will we be next year?
Playing pretty football in the middle of the park, leaking goals and not bothering to at least try to beat the big nasty teams
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If you really think about what he did and said, it means that unless we spend stupid money in the summer, he has settled for us to be mid table mediocrity merchants.
Imagine saying our first strength team couldnt beat City anyway, so why bother playing them?
If that is his attitude, where will we be next year?
Playing pretty football in the middle of the park, leaking goals and not bothering to at least try to beat the big nasty teams
Is giving the ball to the other team or putting it out over the touch line what they call pretty football these days?
God Barcelona are boring giving it their own players all the time!
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Well he did say when he took over he saw villa as a top 12 club - seems that's the way we are going.
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Got in late from work last night and picked up the match on ITV about 10 minutes in. Turned to a bottle of something chilled as the match unfolded before me, although I had already been surprised by the team selection.
Posted when I was trying to find positives after a pretty dire time, friends (other teams) texting etc. On reflection, maybe get a grip was not the thing to say to fans who had travelled.
Enjoyed the bit when they kept the ball though. About the only smile of the night.
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If you really think about what he did and said, it means that unless we spend stupid money in the summer, he has settled for us to be mid table mediocrity merchants.
Imagine saying our first strength team couldnt beat City anyway, so why bother playing them?
If that is his attitude, where will we be next year?
It's the beauty of sport, isn't it?
Look at Ireland yesterday, B-lose on Sunday and so on. The unexpected can happen, results don't always favour the form side, or the better/more expensively assembled one.
Truth be told, I don't think a close to full strength Aston Villa side facing and injury hit and half knackered Citeh side would have fulfilled the criteria of a major upset. When did they suddenly become untouchable?
GH say's we couldn't have won even with a full strength side yesterday. I naturally disagree. Sad thing is we didn't even need to win, a draw would have sufficed. As it would at the return at VP and going through on penalties. B-lose drew against pretty much their first choice starting XI last month afterall. Who knows, had we managed to take them back to Villa Park they might have been in an even worse state form and fatigue wise and we could have won outright.
We'll never know, because we didn't even try.
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Enjoyed the bit when they kept the ball though. About the only smile of the night.
There was a passage of play in the first half when we passed the ball about 20 times, but we lost it in the end (probably Bradley again, but it might have been Gabby) having gained no ground at all. We just didn't threaten going forward, whereas with Young, Albrighton and Downing last Saturday we looked very dangerous. I accept that it was only Blackburn and they were pretty dreadful, but there's no doubt that a couple of our in-form players would have made a difference last night.
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Well he did say when he took over he saw villa as a top 12 club - seems that's the way we are going.
No he didn't.
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yes i really need to be told to get a grip, so here goes i promised my 3 kids that i would take them to thier first game this season, i wont now because i dont trust the club anymore, so the proud history and bright future looks a bit fucked, the first generation of my family that will not be brought up to support Aston Villa
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Houllier clearly stated in his 1st press conference as manager that he saw Aston villa as a 7th to 12th placed club in the pecking order- even though since the premiership began we are the 5th highest and we have just finished top 6 for the last 3 years.
His comment at the time caused a great deal of publicity.
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If you really think about what he did and said, it means that unless we spend stupid money in the summer, he has settled for us to be mid table mediocrity merchants.
Imagine saying our first strength team couldnt beat City anyway, so why bother playing them?
If that is his attitude, where will we be next year?
We'll never know, because we didn't even try.
I think this is what upsets people most. We gave up the F.A Cup with a whimper to give us more chance of beating Bolton.
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Surrendering in the FA Cup
Season ending first week in March
A very Unpopular Manager & Assistant
£110m Debt
Salifou, Beye, Warnock costing £100k per week
SHA Winning a Trophy
Dark Times
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Not exactly great when you put it like that wiki is it ? I think If doug had been in charge with those statistics he'd be copping a lot more flak than randy is getting right now.
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I know we've got some great kids coming through and we have a very good owner who's put a lot of money in, but the landscape has changed. We end up selling our best players - FACT. I'm not sure what our realistic target can be anymore. We give up on the trophies we can actually possibly win, and have no chance of winning the PL or at this stage even qualifying for the CL
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Well he did say when he took over he saw villa as a top 12 club - seems that's the way we are going.
No he didn't.
No, he didn't - "top 12" might have included 1st to 6th. He said 7th to 12th.
I like lots of things about Gerard, some things he has definitely got right, and I like the way we are starting to play (these "tippy tappy football" references are pathetic - like listening to Stoke fans justifying hoofing the ball at the opposition for 90 minutes, and the very same people would soon be up in arms if we actually started doing that).
The problem with Houllier is that he judges the club incorrectly, and puts his foot in it on far too regular a basis. There's far too much of O'Learly about him on that score.
It's both tempting and easy to brush this off as "harmless", but if we're still in the relegation mix as he clearly believes, then there's no doubt that these gaffes and clangers won't have done anything to help the situation so far.
The biggest clanger of this week's events has been the pissing away of the nascent sense of "togetherness" that was building up around the club. Just when we started to look like having the crowd behind him, when the fractiousness of the earlier part of the season was slipping away and we'd put together some better results, we go and do something like this which threatens to piss it all away.
I understand his motives, but this was a bad decision, and if he thought repercussions would not go beyond the fact of us being out of the FA Cup, I think it was naive on his part.
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Surely paulie , he would have said top 6 club if he thought we could come 1st to 6th- I do agree however that he said 7th to 12 th which i feel is a tad harsh on us given our past finishes in the league- I personally see us as a top 8 team in general, along with the lines of everton.
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Surely paulie , he would have said top 6 club if he thought we could come 1st to 6th- I do agree however that he said 7th to 12 th which i feel is a tad harsh on us given our past finishes in the league- I personally see us as a top 8 team in general, along with the lines of everton.
That's what I meant. He said 7th to 12th.
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Tell you what boils my piss. People telling me what to think, telling me to take a reality check, telling me to get a grip.
Sorry GH happy clappers, I'm annoyed, really fucking annoyed at the Aston Villa manager.
He threw a football match. He showed complete contempt for the FA Cup and worst of all, contempt for the fans of Aston Villa. It was an unforgivable error of judgement.
Houllier may have a plan for the future and I wish him success. But at the moment, I am absolutely furious with him.
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Id expect us to finish 7th to 12 th this season , but id hope the long term aim would be to establish ourselves as a top 6 club which we did to a degree under mon, in all honesty i dont think the champions league is any longer a realistic target , certainly not for a few years at least .
Top 6 and a europa place and maybe a cup are realistic ambitions to set i believe , and thats why its so sad what happened on weds night, we were getting that feelgood factor back around the place and now its set us back and alienated many fans , lets hope tomorrow gives us all a much needed lift.
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I kind of swerved the site after seeing the result as I knew it would not be pretty. The reaction I have seen from some seems to suggest that the first team would have walked it if we'd played them, the thing is I travelled up to see the first team get battered 4-0. Did we really have a go at them that day, with the first team playing?
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we are a much better team now karl than we were in december , and although i dont know if we would have won we would have given them a game and had a chance .
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I kind of swerved the site after seeing the result as I knew it would not be pretty. The reaction I have seen from some seems to suggest that the first team would have walked it if we'd played them, the thing is I travelled up to see the first team get battered 4-0. Did we really have a go at them that day, with the first team playing?
That's not the point. Yes the first team may well have still got beaten 3-0, yes they still might have put up that embarrassing performance, yes the players who were picked are first team squad players and maybe could have been expected to put up a better showing. BUT to field such an obviously weakened team in a match that the fans, certainly the ones I spoke to and the ones who were on here, were really up for is an absolute disgrace. The fact that he has made pre-match and post-match comments suggesting he had an interest in winning the competition, something clearly not backed up by his actions, in fact some might call it dishonesty, makes the situation even worse. I am absolutely fuming with the prick. We're going to have to do something special next season for me to forgive.
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Would we have given them a game though? My point was we put the first team out before and they rolled over and had their belly tickled. Maybe with Makoun, Collins & Bent available we would have been stronger but again they could have been spanked again.
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When GH said "we wouldn't have beaten Man City today" he meant that Man City played too well for even our first team to contend with. Plus they might be one of the most depressing teams to be losing against because Mancini's 'game-winning' tactics are straight from a particularly defensive Serie A manual from about 15 years ago: 1) get a slightly jammy goal, preferably from corner so you can utilise the strength of the million big guys you've signed; 2) hold the ball and pass it around at a deathly pace for the duration of the match; 3) possibly even score more goals (!), but only if the opposition parts before you like the Red Sea in a bid to equalise. Downing and Young would not have stopped that first goal (nor would Walker, who's gone from 'defensively suspect' to Massimo Oddo on here in the space of one non-appearance), so we'd have been up against the same situation with the same chance of success.
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At least we'd have had a go. I'm sure I wasn't the only one whose jaw hit the floor when they saw the team. No-one saw it coming and "we'd have lost anyway" is not an excuse
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i bet blues fans are glad they never had that attitude against arsenal- notts county took city to a replay , they are not barcelona ,just because we lost 4-0 to them means nothing.
do you remember liverpool beating palace 9-0 in the league and yet 2 months later palace beat them 4-3 in a fa cup semi at villa park? if you try you never know what you can achieve.
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Again I think this 'at least we'd have had a go' theory is pure conjecture. I can say if we had played the players that were rested they would have had even less of a go and it is just as valid.
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Again I think this 'at least we'd have had a go' theory is pure conjecture. I can say if we had played the players that were rested they would have had even less of a go and it is just as valid.
so therefore in that case why bother against anyone better than us?
if football was that easy to predict we would all be millionaires
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Tell you what boils my piss. People telling me what to think, telling me to take a reality check, telling me to get a grip.
Sorry GH happy clappers, I'm annoyed, really fucking annoyed at the Aston Villa manager.
He threw a football match. He showed complete contempt for the FA Cup and worst of all, contempt for the fans of Aston Villa. It was an unforgivable error of judgement.
Houllier may have a plan for the future and I wish him success. But at the moment, I am absolutely furious with him.
Happy Clappers bit aside, this is exactly how I'm still feeling today
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Tell you what boils my piss. People telling me what to think, telling me to take a reality check, telling me to get a grip.
Sorry GH happy clappers, I'm annoyed, really fucking annoyed at the Aston Villa manager.
He threw a football match. He showed complete contempt for the FA Cup and worst of all, contempt for the fans of Aston Villa. It was an unforgivable error of judgement.
Houllier may have a plan for the future and I wish him success. But at the moment, I am absolutely furious with him.
Happy Clappers bit aside, this is exactly how I'm still feeling today
You still in sole charge at home then Chico? Are the kids running riot?
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Are the kids running riot?
Theb 5th birthday party starts at our house at 3pm today.
I'm running the door, checking guest lists, searching for drugs and weapons and enforcing the strict dress code policy
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Are the kids running riot?
Theb 5th birthday party starts at our house at 3pm today.
I'm running the door, checking guest lists, searching for drugs and weapons and enforcing the strict dress code policy
Ah, the family are coming down are they?
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Why rest our best players, we only have 2 more games over the next month FFS !!!!
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Actually i agree with you Louzie0, it ent the end of the world, we'll get over it. Worse things happen..
Like getting beat by Bolton tomorrow...
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Actually i agree with you Louzie0, it ent the end of the world, we'll get over it. Worse things happen..
Like getting beat by Bolton tomorrow...
Christ, imagine the carnage on here from 5pm onwards tomorrow
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Actually i agree with you Louzie0, it ent the end of the world, we'll get over it. Worse things happen..
Like getting beat by Bolton tomorrow...
Yeah, then id eat my words and apolagise. But ill reserve that for 5pm sat
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The result tomorrow is irrelevant. I fundamentally disagree with putting out weakened teams in any game. I was saying the same after Moscow as well.
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.Again I think this 'at least we'd have had a go' theory is pure conjecture. I can say if we had played the players that were rested they would have had even less of a go and it is just as valid.
so therefore in that case why bother against anyone better than us?
if football was that easy to predict we would all be millionaires
That's not what I said is it. I said there is no guarantee, like some people seem to be presuming, that a different set of players would have 'had more of a go'.
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For me it's not a case that the players missing would have 'had more of a go' - just that they would have had more of a chance of winning!
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At least a few hundred people got steak & chips last time this happened and further patronisation from the incumbant manager of the time. What will the Manchester 3000 get ? Free Balti pie at the Wolves game ?
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Tell you what boils my piss. People telling me what to think, telling me to take a reality check, telling me to get a grip.
That's fair enough.
Sorry GH happy clappers,
But this....here we go again. Villa fans not happy unless they're infighting and pigeon-holing each other.
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Houllier's the one who needs to get a grip! Get a grip on reality! Our one and only chance of silverwear in what has been a disaster of a season, and he just dismisses it. Total lack of respect for our history, total lack if respect for the fans and a total lack of respect to the FA cup.
I'd be happy for him to go now, and if we have to wait till next season for a replacement then so be it. Let's not forget that he's been in charge for most of this cock up of s season, and lets not forget Anfield, and the other man city capitulation.
He's never going to win the fans over now, and in my opinion he just doesn't get ffs ethos of AVFC.
Go now!
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Tell you what boils my piss. People telling me what to think, telling me to take a reality check, telling me to get a grip.
That's fair enough.
Sorry GH happy clappers,
But this....here we go again. Villa fans not happy unless they're infighting and pigeon-holing each other.
Fair comment SR.
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I kind of swerved the site after seeing the result as I knew it would not be pretty. The reaction I have seen from some seems to suggest that the first team would have walked it if we'd played them, the thing is I travelled up to see the first team get battered 4-0. Did we really have a go at them that day, with the first team playing?
OK, so what about Sat Jan 22nd -less than a month later- with a very similar squad?
Sorry Karl, but similar justification was offered post Moscow 'as if we'd have won with the first team anyway' and it was guff then too. For two reasons. Firstly: in both games we didn't necessarily even have to win - a battling draw could have sufficed. And secondly: the reaction of senior players being dropped for such a big game -effectively told their manager had little faith in them- can't be good for team morale.
It impacted on our finish to the 2008/09 campaign and could have a similar spill over into our remaining league games this time out. With the added bonus that it's demonstrated to the likes of Ash and possibly Downing -if they were in any doubt- that any trophy winning ambitions they may have will probably be better served elsewhere.
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Something to debate:
If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?
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It was mentioned before, and yes, had we nailed 4th it would have been seen as a wise move.
But as soon as we made that call, the momentum shifted. We'd played down our chances of 4th and enjoyed the role of outsiders. All the pressure was on Arsenal to maintain their status and profile. Once we picked that side for Moscow though, the eyes of the world were upon us, almost willing us to fcuk up and any pressure we may have faced was ramped up tenfold. Those sickening goals by Stoke in the last ten minutes were to all intents and purposes the footballing gods flicking the V's at us.
The players who missed out that night (and indeed some of the senior players who did actually play) were also miffed. They had to come back early that summer, and had watched their teammate pick up a horrific, potentially career-threatening injury in -what turned out to be post CSKA away- a meaningless game against Odense.
We genuinely don't know what could have happened had we gone with a stronger side that night, I don't think it's by any means a given that we'd have gone much further. For the first time in my Villa-supporting life though we were one of the favourites for the comp, the likes of Jol and Van Basten highlighting us as potential winners. Certainly there weren't many teams we should have feared in the latter stages.
More than that though, even just a morale boosting victory away to CSKA and possibly a good result in the next round -even if that's all we had managed- could have provided us with a crucial fillip going into the latter stages of the league campaign. Teams doing well and winning often have a curious capacity to somehow stay immune from tiredness and fatigue.
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Something to debate:
If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?
For me no, I still feel a bit cheated attending the UEFA games I did leading up to Moscow. What was the point, waste of time, emotion & money
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Something to debate:
If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?
I think we'd have been more likely to qualify for the Champions League but "very likely" is pushing it a bit. I remember those late goals made me feel like we'd blown it, so presumably some of the players might have too, but we'll never know what might have been.
KevinGage has put it very well. Winning teams don't worry about tiredness. What we've seen in the recent past suggests it is better to try and win every game as the benefits of the potential victories, maintaining confidence and belief are more beneficial that resting some legs for 90 minutes.
I have changed my opinion since 2009, when I thought cutting down on fixtures seemed like a good idea as being in the Champions League seemed massively important to me in terms of our continued progress and future success as a club - meaning that while we may forgo a UEFA cup trophy it may give us the ability to consistently challenge for more trophies in the near future. Maybe that sounds daft.
You put it well in another thread, Dave. We gambled and missed. Now we're between a rock and a hard place. What do we do now? It's looks like we don't want to win things.
I say try and win every game, no matter what. That's simple isn't it? No playing weakened sides in cups, it doesn't work out well for us.
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Something to debate:
If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?
If the clubs were more honest with the fans then I might accept it, but they take us for mugs, I can't remember Hotlips or any article on Pravda telling us that we were prioritising the Premier League and would be playing a weakened team in the cup.
On the contrary, we were assailed with guff about how we could win and get a home tie in the quarters and how your season ticket IS good value for money as it guarantees you Wembley tickets.
When the club starts being honest with us, I'll accept decisions like Wednesday, it's a matter of trust, no?
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I sort of see your point, Dave, but we've seen what happened to Wolves and Backpool when the were too obvious about resting players. We'd get ourselves into all sorts of bother if they were to do what you are suggesting and issue statements about playing weakened sides.
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Something to debate:
If we'd beaten Stoke the Sunday after Moscow we would very likely have got into the Champions League and the decision would have been hailed as a master stroke. In that case, might we now accept weakened teams in cup competitions as a necessary evil?
Not at all in Wednesdays case, after today the next two league games are spread out at fortnightly intervals. We could struggle through those games as much through players losing their competitive edge as any injury risk or `tiredness`.
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I sort of see your point, Dave, but we've seen what happened to Wolves and Backpool when the were too obvious about resting players. We'd get ourselves into all sorts of bother if they were to do what you are suggesting and issue statements about playing weakened sides.
True, so maybe less of the souvenir UEFA Cup programmes, less of the "Your ST is good value because you'll get Wembley tickets", and no hyping up of FA Cup matches to try to get us mugs through the turnstiles - unless they fucking mean it next time.
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Sorry Karl, but similar justification was offered post Moscow 'as if we'd have won with the first team anyway' and it was guff then too.
I didn't say 'as if we'd have won with the first team. Again the point I was making is that a lot of people seem to believe that the result WOULD have been different had he played a full strength side. I am saying that the scoreline would be completely unknown and could even have been worse. There is no way of knowing, yet people took the view that it would have been better if a different group of players had played.