Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: BannedUserIAT on February 13, 2011, 03:41:21 AM
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The lad is an amazing talent. There's absolutely no doubting that. But, for me, he's not performing anywhere close to what he should be. Nor as consistently.
The Blackpool game was the best he's shown for some time - but even then, we got a perfect illustration of what's going wrong: his petulance, his billy-big bollocks attitude, his lack of footballing brain...
I think the wheels started to come off when MoN claimed him to be 'World Class'. Since then, he seems to think he's the English Lionel Messi? Instead of doing what suits both his game and the teams in using his sublime skill (and reputation) to draw two players, then lay off the pass to a free player, he now likes to hold the ball until he runs into trouble, invariably going down under the challenge. Then we see the waving of the arms, the slapping of the pitch, the moaning at the ref - or worse, his own team-mates.
On the occassion he does 'draw the foul', the next bit is so painfully predictable...the cross will go either straight to the keeper, overhit so the tall bloke at the back stick needs grow another 6 inches or, more often than not, smacks it into Row Z.
It really hit home to me yesterday how much his game has gone downhill when I got excited by a Spurs loanee ripping through the opposition. He doesn't try to 'draw the foul', he tries to tear into them. He doesn't try to do something way beyond his level, he just does what he does. He doesn't come off as someone who feels he has to do it to try and showcase his talent, he does it to create a genuine opportunity and to rev the team - and the crowd - up.
This is what Young needs to get back to doing. Because it's what he does best. I loved that Ashley Young. I can't stand the over-hyped, over-acting, primadonna MkII version he's become.
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Pretty much word for word as I see it too, in my years I've never known a player so talented and exciting while at the same time being so fucking infuriating, incidently the point about him thinking he's better than he is since MON said he was world class is a point my dad repeatedly makes to me, what I'd give to get the Ash of old back, although it may help if he was'nt playing in a position were he's totally inefectual
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Swap for Jimmy in the summer please.
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Good player who on his day can be superb- ash is far more effective as a winger but seems to prefer the central role . The delivery of ash on set pieces has been very poor on a regular basis for some time now and although there is no doubt he's a decent player I agree milner is a much bigger loss than ash would be.
I feel he will move on in the summer and this may be in the benefit of all parties as he isn't good enough to play his current role at this level-whoever buys him will also probably be looking at him as a winger too.
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I echo your thoughts Troy, undoubtedly talented but simply not delivering consistently or often enough. Needs to get back to basics and use his noggin a bit more. Also good point about about the comparatively refreshing approach of Walker, and I think you can say similar about Albrighton's game.
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Positives:
A very good player when he wants to be and in the right position.
His effort and running lately can't be faulted.
Negatives:
Nowhere near as effective in the middle.
Much better out on the wing, taking people on.
Poor from dead ball situations at the moment.
Too much arm waving / gesturing / moaning.
He wears that stupid snood.
He limps in every single game, without fail.
All in all, he could, and should, be the type of player we need to hold onto if we're to progress. However, he's not performing for us and i'd sell him in the summer if a decent offer came in. I don't see as he'd be a major loss and think we could use the money to bring other players in. There will always be other players available.
Barry was our best player. We sold him.
Milner was our best player. We sold him.
Is Young our best player? In my opinion no, not to the extent that they were. Therefore the impact won't be as great.
Those are just my feelings on him at the moment. I'd love nothing more than to see him out on the wing and back to his best. Then i'd keep him, without question.
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Can't argue with any of the above.
2 incidents summed it up for me: (i) last season I went to the game at the COM stadium to see Villa play Citeh - on one occasion, AY challenged a linesman's decision - wrongly (it was right in the corner where we were stood) - and gave him a right volley, got booked for his trouble and spent the next 10 minutes fretting about it; (ii) at Shefield Utd this season, getting needlessly sent off for two petulant fouls against losing and inferior opposition.
For me, he's lost the plot and needs to move on to re-find it. He'll be a great player again; just not sure it'll be in a Villa shirt.
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you would think the manager would show him a dvd of his performance and he would be embarassed by his own behaviour... in a perfect world anyway. Where is his ability to self criticise?
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Speculation in the press that sir alex wants him in the summer , if that was the case then I'd be looking for Gibson plus cash in a part ex deal, also galatasaray rumoured to be after mr petrov , in which case I'd definately sell.
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No thanks to Gibson. We can do better than that.
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Speculation in the press that sir alex wants him in the summer , if that was the case then I'd be looking for Gibson plus cash in a part ex deal
You've come up with some eccentric ideas in the past eastie, but the idea that anyone higher than a League One club, let alone ourselves should be trying to sign Darron Gibson is bordering on insanity.
He would be about sixth choice amongst our current midfielders.
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If Sir Alex was to sign AY Where would he play him? I don't think he would use him in a central role. He would play him in his strongest position for the good of the team. Why can't we try this ? Is it too far into this season to change this without AY throwing his toys out the pram?
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For me he has'nt been as good on the wing as some people on here think for the last 2 years.If he does play on the wing, then play him on the right.
I think that he is worth perservering with in the middle tbh, but he needs much better help from Gabby in partic, and the addition of a proper LB would give him more options when he has the ball.
Wens showed he can play that role, he wants to play there, he is probably the best player to play there, so lets give him the opportunity to play there.
If he goes in the summer, so be it, its happened before, it will probably happen again.
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I pretty much agree with every word of Troys original post.
To add to that, I don't think giving Ash the captains armband helps him.
For one reason, he is not exactly setting a leaders example.
But the main thing is, being captain is like giving him carte blanche to question every single action of the ref, because captains are the only ones 'allowed' to speak to the ref.
Problem is, there is the right way to do it, and Ashleys way .
Its no wonder he pisses them off.
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If Gibson were as average as you describe dave , I doubt sir alex would have had offered him a long term contract like he has done- I prefer to take sir alex opinion of him.
If ash were to go to united I think it would surely be as a winger.
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Barrysleftfoot, fair opening comment. However, I do think he's more effective there than in the middle.
Maybe the fact that he's not played well in either position reinforces the fact that it wouldn't be a major loss if he left.
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If Gibson were as average as you describe dave , I doubt sir alex would have had offered him a long term contract like he has done- I prefer to take sir alex opinion of him.
He's not average, he's atrocious.
He does nothing at all apart from repeatedly shoot from the edge of the box, with every thirtieth shot flying in.
He adds literally nothing else.
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Young's problem is essentially the same problem as the team as a whole: he thinks he's much better than he really is. He always tries to do more than he is capable of pulling off - just like we as a team try to pass it around like Arsenal, when we are incapable of hurting the opposition that way. If he - and this applies to the whole team - understood his limitations, accepted his place in the footballing hierarchy, stuck to his natural position and played to his strengths, he'd be a much, much more effective player. As I said in the Blackpool post-match thread, in trying to outdo ourselves, we inevitably undo ourselves, hence our current position.
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Haven't seen a World Class Ashley Young performance since he got that tag which I believe was just an attempt to boost his confidence and keep him happy at the Villa.Making him captain and letting him play where HE feels his best is , is just a continuation of this.
Take the money and reinvest please
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He's a top quality player. We're a better side when he's in it. People have unrealistic expectations. They seem to think every pass should be a killer ball and every cross drop straight on the strikers head. That just shows a lack of understanding of the game. However, if you look back you'll see that he's involved in a large percentage of our goals. His work rate is fantastic and his passion and commitment are obvious. Yes, he can appear petulant but that's because he's desperate to win. Yes, he sometimes looks for fouls but that's the modern game and expecting different is like expecting teenagers to stop using SMS.
The fact that we're even talking about Manu being interested tells you how good he is, Gibson isn't fit to iron his snood.
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Speculation in the press that sir alex wants him in the summer , if that was the case then I'd be looking for Gibson plus cash in a part ex deal, also galatasaray rumoured to be after mr petrov , in which case I'd definately sell.
We should have kept Craig Gardner; he's better than Gibson in the central role.
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Chris , do you feel ash should be playing off the striker in the hole or is your opinion that he should be playing on the wing?
I heard GED saying ' ash prefers playing in the hole and likes it there' this week , that shouldn't come into it, I'm sure gabby likes playing central too but the team should be the main thing .
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He's a top quality player. We're a better side when he's in it. People have unrealistic expectations. They seem to think every pass should be a killer ball and every cross drop straight on the strikers head. That just shows a lack of understanding of the game. However, if you look back you'll see that he's involved in a large percentage of our goals. His work rate is fantastic and his passion and commitment are obvious. Yes, he can appear petulant but that's because he's desperate to win. Yes, he sometimes looks for fouls but that's the modern game and expecting different is like expecting teenagers to stop using SMS.
The fact that we're even talking about Manu being interested tells you how good he is, Gibson isn't fit to iron his snood.
Chris - much of what you say is good comment.
I just wonder whether he, his advisors and the Club will all come to the same conclusion: that his future would be best-served elsewhere and that the club can find other resources to make the sum of the parts more effective than currently.
AY does need to look to himself and decide whether the 'roving role' really is in his best interests; 'cos I don't think it helps the team.
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I like to see a winger beat his man and get the cross in for his striker and marc provides this far option for us , I loved seeing froggatt get to the line and put saunders in on goal and can see see albrighton doing this for bent - the final ball from ash is not as good anymore and something in his game is lacking - his effort is first class but he lacks the delivery he used to provide.
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If Gibson were as average as you describe dave , I doubt sir alex would have had offered him a long term contract like he has done- I prefer to take sir alex opinion of him.
He's not average, he's atrocious.
He does nothing at all apart from repeatedly shoot from the edge of the box, with every thirtieth shot flying in.
He adds literally nothing else.
As Dave said. No thanks we don't want Gibson. SAF has him on a long contract so that he can trade him for good money simply because he is ex-manu.
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Swap for Jimmy in the summer please.
Very good suggestion. City need a wide option we need Jimmy back in the centre. Jimmy will never play in the man shitty centre in the near future.
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Why, why, why (no seriously, why) does he keep wearing that fucking thing round his neck? It's an outdoor sport where you run around a lot and it's nearly 10 fucking degrees out now. Get the fucking thing off you idiot.
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Gloves and snood become a habit after wearing them a few times and of course normal stuff like suspicion comes into it. It they had a good match wearing those items than they are more likely to wear them for that reason rather than actual climate needs.
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Chris , do you feel ash should be playing off the striker in the hole or is your opinion that he should be playing on the wing?
I heard GED saying ' ash prefers playing in the hole and likes it there' this week , that shouldn't come into it, I'm sure gabby likes playing central too but the team should be the main thing .
I like him in the second striker position. We've got other players who can play wide but we haven't got anyone else who can currently do what he does in the middle. We're not going back to 442 that should be obvious to everyone, so as it stands he is our best option there.
EffDee, wouldn't surprise me at all if that is how it pans out in the summer. By then Bannan, Delph and Albrighton might be ready to shoulder a bit more responsibility.
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If we could get Jimmy back I'd be delighted. I'd also love to see N'Zogbia coming in. That would represent a net improvement on Ash and Downing for me.
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
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Gloves and snood become a habit after wearing them a few times and of course normal stuff like suspicion comes into it. It they had a good match wearing those items than they are more likely to wear them for that reason rather than actual climate needs.
If thats the case, Ash should be still wearing the 2008-9 kit becouse that was the last time he showed any consistency.
Since then he's been pretty average barring the odd game now & then .
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Young would be a big hit at Man Utd. For starters, he'd do what he's told by Fergie. He wouldn't think he was the best player in the team. And his falling-over and backchat antics would go rewarded by referees the moment he pulls on a red shirt.
The sooner he realises he's a Villa player - with all the limits on his game that it entails - and that he's paid to do what we tell him, the better for all of us until he inevitably goes. Which he will.
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He needs to play as he did for England, which is to be attacking minded, but pass the ball when it needs to be passed.
I also noticed how Milner took the corners and, possibly, free-kicks on Wednesday, something Ashley wouldn't have let him do at Villa...
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
"Like"
But I think GH is planning an Arsenal-esque formation on us, which I could also get to "Like".
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We will not go back to 442 and I like the new formation we are trying to play but it will take time to get the right players in the right position , hopefully by next summer we may become much better at it.
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
"Like"
But I think GH is planning an Arsenal-esque formation on us, which I could also get to "Like".
I could go for that but not with Agbonlahor on left, Downing on right and Young behind Bent
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We will not go back to 442 and I like the new formation we are trying to play but it will take time to get the right players in the right position , hopefully by next summer we may become much better at it.
Well its not rocket science is it.......Downing is left footed so he plays on the left, Gabby is right footed so he plays on the right. I would love to know what formation we are playing and his reasoning for playing 3/4 players out of position
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If we are looking to play wide men to feed bent then albrighton should be in the team ahead of gabby , I really think we are trying to accomodate certain players at the moment until houllier gets more of his type players in the summer, the full backs are being defensively exposed too easily for my liking.
Also to play this system relies on players in defence being comfortable in possession and I'd expect at least one new central defender in the summer.
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
It's not quite that simple. The formation should be adaptable and change according to the opposition and the personel being used.
I manage a team myself. If we're playing someone I think we should beat, i'll go with 2 up top. If we're playing someone who's going to give us a tough game i'll probably go 5 across the middle. Obviously it's not always that simple, but I don't have one formation that i stick too.
Eastie, Gibson is on a long term contract so as they can bring in more money for him should he be sold. I spoke to a couple of Utd fans when we were linked in January and they said we were welcome to him. They didn't rate him at all.
Back to Young...
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I think he's a good player and we are weaker going forward without him, but he needs to be on the left wing and he should be taken off set piece duties.
We'd look a lot better with him on the left, Downing/Albrighton on the right and a less selfish attacking midfielder who can pick out a pass, ie. Bannan.
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I'd go for Adel Taarabt in the summer. A nice chunk of the Young money should do it!
Kranjcar has done more for spurs in 2 games than Ash has done all season. Provided the unexpected.
He confirmed on Wednesday he was a tit when the replay showed him hurling himself to the floor. Yesterday wasn't that cold.
Since Everton the guy has done fuck all, apart from scoring via a few over-hit crosses. I was all for putting Ash in the hole last year, this year we've tried it and it doesn't fecking work G.H.
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Taarabt certainly has that bit of creativity in him but whether he could do it at this level is open to question, I've been impressed watching him for qpr though.
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I would like i have said before wan't Ash moved out wide he was better out wide taking people on and getting balls in the box plus he used to take two players with him which left space for others to exploit.
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I like Ashley, he cares, he works so hard, he has so much talent but we are failing to get the best out of him. He seems to have taken on the responsibility of running the team in attack whilst at the same time trying to take his own game to the next level. The problem is it's not working and he's rarely contributing the same kind of performances we've seen a couple of years ago. Somebody needs to sit him down and get him back playing with the orchestra rather than trying to conduct it. He'll still have the solo parts that will highlight his talent but more than anything, the whole team will be better for it.
If we fail to do it now, you can guarantee his next manager will and he'll be back to the player we all loved to see.
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I still get a frisson of excitement when he gets the ball and running at the defence, but that's more to do with what he was doing two years ago, rather than any time recently.
His final ball has become very disappointing, either from open play or from a dead ball. He also doesn't contribute anywhere near enough in the way of goals. He should be a 10 - 15 a season player, season-in, season-out.
His biggest problem, which, as has already been said, will overnight become one his biggest assets when he's at a Top 4 club, is his petulance. Yesterday could have seen him been awarded a last minute penalty, but for the fact he'd spent the previous 20 minutes going to ground every time he has challenged and then moaning about not getting a free-kick.
Three months of good performances please, Ash. It will at least give us something to remember when you leave in the summer.
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If we can get Ashley back on the wings putting in good delivery's then he'll be back to his best. He's trying to do far to much in his current role, and he simply isnt good enough.
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Could it be that we aren't getting the best out of Ashley Young because I honestly believe our coaching staff aren't good enough.Ask yourself this question,would we get more out of Ashley Young with a quality coach getting more out of him? Liverpool have brought in Clarke and have improved,we've got Mcallister,have we improved? Do we score more goals?
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The system we are trying to play, as are most other teams, is with a front man and two others playing wide/alongside of him. By this I do not mean them hugging the touchline and getting crosses in all game but taking a free role by moving anywhere across the pitch, taking players on as need be, crossing if out wide, or putting the through ball for the front man, plus scoring goals.
They are also in a forward position on the pitch so they are generally attacking the opposition. On Wednesday I thought Ashley played quite well in the position and, probably because he had other players that he thought were as good as him, did not try and overdo the individual stuff too much.
At Villa he seems as if he deems no one else is up to his level, he needs to go back and pick the ball up off the centre backs, he needs to take 3, 4 or 5 players on (generally ending up losing the ball and going down looking for a foul), he needs to take all free kicks etc.
If he went to Man u he would be put in his place as to where he stands in the pecking order, would be taught how to play the free running forward role and would improve. One could say, just like Ronaldo and this season Nani.
He could play like this for Villa, the question is does he want to or can GH make him?
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I don't think we can play Downing, Ashley and Gabby in the same eleven. We'd look much more balanced if we played Gabby and Ashley out wide, with a sold 3 of Makoun,Reo-Coker and Bannan in the middle.
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i think keeping him is important, what does it say about villa if we sell him who would we be selling him to liverpool/spurs or even a manu or city 2 of those clubs are direct competion to us in getting into the top 4.
barry and millner both gone add ash to that list and what's it saying firstly to us and then potential replacements "well we are not gonna challange for the CL, might be in the dust up for the last UEFA cup spot if luck is with us"
i know he has been frankly poor this year but he was a one of the main MON signings and a fully signed up member of his vision for villa -like it or not MON had top 4 in his sights and we did feel it was gonna happen at one point (anyway i stray) - so what did it do for him when MON walked out on the seasons eve?? and then GH new way of doing things it's well documented the way the players are treated has changed, he I don't think bought into this at first BUT i really think in the last few months his effort can not be faulted and he appears (from the stands) to have buckled down and got on with it.
take away the poor play his effort has been faultless overall. get him signed up and lets crack on with him and bent leading the way.....
anyway who would we buy??? and thats another story - better the devil you know maybe!
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he is stuck up his own arse and believing his hype...
he has been going down hill for two years now, and since houllier has moved him more central, he has been utterly pointless...
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
It's not quite that simple. The formation should be adaptable and change according to the opposition and the personel being used.
I manage a team myself. If we're playing someone I think we should beat, i'll go with 2 up top. If we're playing someone who's going to give us a tough game i'll probably go 5 across the middle. Obviously it's not always that simple, but I don't have one formation that i stick too.
Eastie, Gibson is on a long term contract so as they can bring in more money for him should he be sold. I spoke to a couple of Utd fans when we were linked in January and they said we were welcome to him. They didn't rate him at all.
Back to Young...
Serious question though, do you put your left winger on the right and your striker on the left wing?
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
It's not quite that simple. The formation should be adaptable and change according to the opposition and the personel being used.
I manage a team myself. If we're playing someone I think we should beat, i'll go with 2 up top. If we're playing someone who's going to give us a tough game i'll probably go 5 across the middle. Obviously it's not always that simple, but I don't have one formation that i stick too.
Eastie, Gibson is on a long term contract so as they can bring in more money for him should he be sold. I spoke to a couple of Utd fans when we were linked in January and they said we were welcome to him. They didn't rate him at all.
Back to Young...
Serious question though, do you put your left winger on the right and your striker on the left wing?
Not if you want to get the best out of bent
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
My God you're actually quoting Mike Bassett. Do you want defensive, counter-attack to 1-0 football? Do you want to never be able to break teams down at home? Do you think we can somehow be creative and stop other teams slicing through us with two in the midfield miles away from two out-and-out strikers? Do you want us to be so reliant on the wings and on crosses again that we become the easiest to play against team in the league? If you have circled "yes" to all the above, then by all means, play 4-4-2.
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
My God you're actually quoting Mike Bassett. Do you want defensive, counter-attack to 1-0 football? Do you want to never be able to break teams down at home? Do you think we can somehow be creative and stop other teams slicing through us with two in the midfield miles away from two out-and-out strikers? Do you want us to be so reliant on the wings and on crosses again that we become the easiest to play against team in the league? If you have circled "yes" to all the above, then by all means, play 4-4-2.
Man Utd play 4 4 2 the majority of the time and have right footed players on the right and left footed players on he left. football is a very simple game, you pass the ball, cross the ball and score goals
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If Gibson were as average as you describe dave , I doubt sir alex would have had offered him a long term contract like he has done- I prefer to take sir alex opinion of him.
He's not average, he's atrocious.
He does nothing at all apart from repeatedly shoot from the edge of the box, with every thirtieth shot flying in.
He adds literally nothing else.
Atrocious is a bit strong, there's something there but not enough to take him in any part exchange. He'd be worth what, £4m? A good buy for the likes of Wolves, not us.
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
My God you're actually quoting Mike Bassett. Do you want defensive, counter-attack to 1-0 football? Do you want to never be able to break teams down at home? Do you think we can somehow be creative and stop other teams slicing through us with two in the midfield miles away from two out-and-out strikers? Do you want us to be so reliant on the wings and on crosses again that we become the easiest to play against team in the league? If you have circled "yes" to all the above, then by all means, play 4-4-2.
Man Utd play 4 4 2 the majority of the time and have right footed players on the right and left footed players on he left. football is a very simple game, you pass the ball, cross the ball and score goals
Firstly, read this and tell me if you still think football's as simple a game as that:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits
Secondly, Man Utd have two forwards in Rooney and Berbatov, one of whom (or both if they're both playing) plays pretty much as an attacking midfielder. They both drop deep into midfield, they drift wide and link up, they even chase back sometimes (admittedly more so Rooney). This means the forward line never gets isolated from the midfield, and means that they have options on the ball in midfield. Most teams can't do this because most teams don't have one player like this, let alone two.
Thirdly, but following on from that, Man Utd play that system but nobody else does. For everybody else to attack with variety, to keep possession and not to be defensively lightweight in midfield you have to play 4-5-1/4-3-3 or some variant. Even Spurs recognised their defensive problems and switched to a system with VDV as the most advanced midfielder. Yesterday they won through with 4-4-2, but more on mental strength and individual quality moments than being the better side (Sunderland had 57% possession and can count themselves unlucky). The point is to try and do those three things I mentioned - vary attacks, hold the ball, don't concede softly - by getting the best out of the players you have. For Man Utd, their unique 4-4-2 variant can do that; for almost everyone else, we have to try something else.
Finally, almost as an aside, I've never understood why people think it matters so much which side a winger is on in relation to his favourite foot. Each offers a different type of threat and different players are suited to different things. Ash's best football came as an inside-out winger on the left - does this mean Ferguson is wrong to play the right-footed Nani on the right? Or indeed vice-versa. They're different players, different people - and besides, wingers can swap places during a game multiple times, so starting positions often don't really matter so much.
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
My God you're actually quoting Mike Bassett. Do you want defensive, counter-attack to 1-0 football? Do you want to never be able to break teams down at home? Do you think we can somehow be creative and stop other teams slicing through us with two in the midfield miles away from two out-and-out strikers? Do you want us to be so reliant on the wings and on crosses again that we become the easiest to play against team in the league? If you have circled "yes" to all the above, then by all means, play 4-4-2.
Man Utd play 4 4 2 the majority of the time and have right footed players on the right and left footed players on he left. football is a very simple game, you pass the ball, cross the ball and score goals
Firstly, read this and tell me if you still think football's as simple a game as that:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits
Secondly, Man Utd have two forwards in Rooney and Berbatov, one of whom (or both if they're both playing) plays pretty much as an attacking midfielder. They both drop deep into midfield, they drift wide and link up, they even chase back sometimes (admittedly more so Rooney). This means the forward line never gets isolated from the midfield, and means that they have options on the ball in midfield. Most teams can't do this because most teams don't have one player like this, let alone two.
Thirdly, but following on from that, Man Utd play that system but nobody else does. For everybody else to attack with variety, to keep possession and not to be defensively lightweight in midfield you have to play 4-5-1/4-3-3 or some variant. Even Spurs recognised their defensive problems and switched to a system with VDV as the most advanced midfielder. Yesterday they won through with 4-4-2, but more on mental strength and individual quality moments than being the better side (Sunderland had 57% possession and can count themselves unlucky). The point is to try and do those three things I mentioned - vary attacks, hold the ball, don't concede softly - by getting the best out of the players you have. For Man Utd, their unique 4-4-2 variant can do that; for almost everyone else, we have to try something else.
Finally, almost as an aside, I've never understood why people think it matters so much which side a winger is on in relation to his favourite foot. Each offers a different type of threat and different players are suited to different things. Ash's best football came as an inside-out winger on the left - does this mean Ferguson is wrong to play the right-footed Nani on the right? Or indeed vice-versa. They're different players, different people - and besides, wingers can swap places during a game multiple times, so starting positions often don't really matter so much.
Firstly.........If u like this formation (whatever it is) fine, I dont
Secondly....... We spent £18m on a centre forward yet yesterday against one of the worst defences in the league he had NIL service from this formation (whatever it is)
Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
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Just watched MOTD highlights and they didn't show a chance he had in the dying seconds yesterday. But I can't help thinking the Ashley Young of 2 or 3 seasons ago would have buried it.
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Ashley should be played in a position that benefits the team, Not where he wants to simply play.
It is obvious that he will leave in the summer so in the meantime put him out on the wing and get some decent service into Bent.
Gabby or Heskey need to play up front in a 4-4-2 imo.
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Ashley should be played in a position that benefits the team, Not where he wants to simply play.
It is obvious that he will leave in the summer so in the meantime put him out on the wing and get some decent service into Bent.
Gabby or Heskey need to play up front in a 4-4-2 imo.
Seconded
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Ashley is the one player that gets the crowd going when he gets the ball and runs at peope. I think its due to his talent that he has been moved inside to put some creativity in the middle, which we have lacked for the last couple of seasons.
He can be frustrating when he falls over or doesn't go for the simple option or moans to much, but then he sometimes he looks a different class.
The other thing I like is his attitude and work rate. Have you ever watched him during the warm up? he spends time talking with all the young players, looks relaxed and looks like he genuinly is enjoying himself, and although he does moan alot during a game, I have seen him show encouragement and offer advice to others. I think he has the potential to be a good captain (Although do tend to prefer a centre half)
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
My God you're actually quoting Mike Bassett. Do you want defensive, counter-attack to 1-0 football? Do you want to never be able to break teams down at home? Do you think we can somehow be creative and stop other teams slicing through us with two in the midfield miles away from two out-and-out strikers? Do you want us to be so reliant on the wings and on crosses again that we become the easiest to play against team in the league? If you have circled "yes" to all the above, then by all means, play 4-4-2.
It was meant more as a joke monty, I don't mean a rigid 4-4-2 but I would like to see players in the right positions!
I don't want it to be totally like before I agree I would not like to see the return on the constant passing to Ash on the wing but you have to see that Young behind Bent with Downing on the right isnt as effective as say Downing on the left
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His crossing has fallen away drastically. He’s a total waste from set pieces of late.
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
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Just watched MOTD highlights and they didn't show a chance he had in the dying seconds yesterday. But I can't help thinking the Ashley Young of 2 or 3 seasons ago would have buried it.
Possibly, I think it was the effort of a man who had run his bollocks off for 95 minutes.
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
My God you're actually quoting Mike Bassett. Do you want defensive, counter-attack to 1-0 football? Do you want to never be able to break teams down at home? Do you think we can somehow be creative and stop other teams slicing through us with two in the midfield miles away from two out-and-out strikers? Do you want us to be so reliant on the wings and on crosses again that we become the easiest to play against team in the league? If you have circled "yes" to all the above, then by all means, play 4-4-2.
It was meant more as a joke monty, I don't mean a rigid 4-4-2 but I would like to see players in the right positions!
I don't want it to be totally like before I agree I would not like to see the return on the constant passing to Ash on the wing but you have to see that Young behind Bent with Downing on the right isnt as effective as say Downing on the left
Phew Phil, I was worrying you'd lost it! No I completely agree, Ash in this role isn't working, though Downing on either wing has been our best player this season. I'd like to see a proper midfield 3 of Bannan and two from Makoun/Bradley/Delph. I think that's got the defensive balance, the attacking fluidity and a bit of interchange in there - no specialist 'holder', just players who complement each other well.
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Aston Villa should be playing 4-4 fucking 2
Ash left side midfield and Bent + another up front is how I see it
My God you're actually quoting Mike Bassett. Do you want defensive, counter-attack to 1-0 football? Do you want to never be able to break teams down at home? Do you think we can somehow be creative and stop other teams slicing through us with two in the midfield miles away from two out-and-out strikers? Do you want us to be so reliant on the wings and on crosses again that we become the easiest to play against team in the league? If you have circled "yes" to all the above, then by all means, play 4-4-2.
It was meant more as a joke monty, I don't mean a rigid 4-4-2 but I would like to see players in the right positions!
I don't want it to be totally like before I agree I would not like to see the return on the constant passing to Ash on the wing but you have to see that Young behind Bent with Downing on the right isnt as effective as say Downing on the left
Phew Phil, I was worrying you'd lost it! No I completely agree, Ash in this role isn't working, though Downing on either wing has been our best player this season. I'd like to see a proper midfield 3 of Bannan and two from Makoun/Bradley/Delph. I think that's got the defensive balance, the attacking fluidity and a bit of interchange in there - no specialist 'holder', just players who complement each other well.
I think there is something in that though. I'm not questioning his work ethic, but he doesn't have what he had two or three years ago. That finish at Goodison in the 94th minute was outstanding.
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
That was one game out of 30+ this season
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
That was one game out of 30+ this season
No it wasn't, they've played it regularly.
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
That was one game out of 30+ this season
One which they desperately wanted to win.
Man U can play 4-4-2 because they have two excellent strikers who work hard and can drop deep. Rooney and Berbatov have so much more ability and intelligence to play the game than Bent or especially Gabby that it is frightening.
I like 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 personally and think it is a considerably better formation than 4-4-2. Though I would like to see Bannan in midfield rather than three wide players accomodated poorly.
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I would love to someone to Aston Villa and lock Ashley Young in a room with a TV and DVD of several his best performance and recent performance and make him listen and stop him believing his hype. He is capable of doing a lot more and is extremely wasteful and uneffective. I want him to play in similar role to Tony Morley with better set pieces. I would love to see a young Ron Saunders having a word :)
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Ashley should be played in a position that benefits the team, Not where he wants to simply play.
/quote]
Thirded, he'll go in the summer so perhaps get Downing playing on the left but that means we will need an excellent left back because he will offer little or no cover.
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
That was one game out of 30+ this season
One which they desperately wanted to win.
Man U can play 4-4-2 because they have two excellent strikers who work hard and can drop deep. Rooney and Berbatov have so much more ability and intelligence to play the game than Bent or especially Gabby that it is frightening.
I like 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 personally and think it is a considerably better formation than 4-4-2. Though I would like to see Bannan in midfield rather than three wide players accomodated poorly.
I agree with everything there, Bentman.
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
That was one game out of 30+ this season
No it wasn't, they've played it regularly.
No they dont if they have played 4 5 1 how come Berbatov has played 29 games and Rooney has played 21 games this season
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Many people are throwing up various midfield options but in the remainder of the season I would like to have a look at a player I believe could become an absolute villa legend- Gary gardner.
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Many people are throwing up various midfield options but in the remainder of the season I would like to have a look at a player I believe could become an absolute villa legend- Gary gardner.
As soon as were mathematically safe im hoping he gets a few games
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
That was one game out of 30+ this season
No it wasn't, they've played it regularly.
No they dont if they have played 4 5 1 how come Berbatov has played 29 games and Rooney has played 21 games this season
Rooney has regularly played in a wider role, the same sort of job that Gabby does for us. As Monty says they play a much more fluid system than us, not the rigid 4-4-2 many on here are calling fir.
I don't get why people keep banging on about it. It's obvious we're not going to change so it's like a wasp keep flying into a window.
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You could see yesterday that Ashley was really getting up Webb's nose,
whilst he was wearing the armband you could expect dialogue but our man
went beyond the line and it was a wonder he didn't receive a caution-
Maybe it was Young's theatrics during the 90 that influenced the decision
by the 'male' assistant not to award a penalty ?
For what it's worth IF he stays which I believe is doubtful, it should be as
an out an out winger and the management should instruct him to cut out
the diving and whinging because he would be a better player for it and
Aston Villa would benefit
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
That was one game out of 30+ this season
No it wasn't, they've played it regularly.
No they dont if they have played 4 5 1 how come Berbatov has played 29 games and Rooney has played 21 games this season
Rooney has regularly played in a wider role, the same sort of job that Gabby does for us. As Monty says they play a much more fluid system than us, not the rigid 4-4-2 many on here are calling fir.
I don't get why people keep banging on about it. It's obvious we're not going to change so it's like a wasp keep flying into a window.
If GED/Monty/You think its a good system I have no issue but I dont, I dont think we are playing our best attacking players Gabby, Downing/Ash/Marc in their best, most natural positions but thats just how I see it and since we have started playing 4 5 1/4 3 3 we have not put a run of results together .
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Chris isn't just we got a shit manager who bluntly hasn't got a clue?
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Chris isn't just we got a shit manager who bluntly hasn't got a clue?
No.
Most of us accepted that this would be a season of transition. We're 8th in the current form table which suggests that we are improving. We'd all love it to be quicker but we are getting there.
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Chris isn't just we got a shit manager who bluntly hasn't got a clue?
No.
Most of us accepted that this would be a season of transition. We're 8th in the current form table which suggests that we are improving. We'd all love it to be quicker but we are getting there.
Chris......... Do you think he needs a defensive coach ??
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By the first few weeks of next season we will finally have a real idea what we will be under Houllier as he will have been able to fully stamp himself on our side. He has already began this but the job is not fully done.
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Spangley, I think we need to defend better at set pieces, without a doubt. Whether that means a specialist coach or those that we have doing their job better I'm not sure
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I got an idea now thanks. I don't buy into this with his own players bullshit. People keep saying we/Ashley young are playing well and we ain't. Sunderland,fulham,Blackpool yielded us 2 points and young was a moaning Billy big bollox in all of them. We were also very very lucky to get a win against man c.
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If GED/Monty/You think its a good system I have no issue but I dont, I dont think we are playing our best attacking players Gabby, Downing/Ash/Marc in their best, most natural positions but thats just how I see it and since we have started playing 4 5 1/4 3 3 we have not put a run of results together .
I don't necessarily think our current system is the best we could do. I always think 4-2-3-1 is a bit rigid sometimes, a little bit 'special teams' - i.e. saying "you attack, you defend" instead of the whole team working together. However, that more holistic approach takes time and a lot of intensive training, so I don't mind this at the moment. I don't think he's necessarily getting the best out of our players playing them in the roles he's given them, but I think he's essentially right.
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If GED/Monty/You think its a good system I have no issue but I dont, I dont think we are playing our best attacking players Gabby, Downing/Ash/Marc in their best, most natural positions but thats just how I see it and since we have started playing 4 5 1/4 3 3 we have not put a run of results together .
I don't necessarily think our current system is the best we could do. I always think 4-2-3-1 is a bit rigid sometimes, a little bit 'special teams' - i.e. saying "you attack, you defend" instead of the whole team working together. However, that more holistic approach takes time and a lot of intensive training, so I don't mind this at the moment. I don't think he's necessarily getting the best out of our players playing them in the roles he's given them, but I think he's essentially right.
I was very impressed with what he did in the Jan window and as u say he will need time to "mould" things into what he wants.
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If GED/Monty/You think its a good system I have no issue but I dont, I dont think we are playing our best attacking players Gabby, Downing/Ash/Marc in their best, most natural positions but thats just how I see it and since we have started playing 4 5 1/4 3 3 we have not put a run of results together .
I don't necessarily think our current system is the best we could do. I always think 4-2-3-1 is a bit rigid sometimes, a little bit 'special teams' - i.e. saying "you attack, you defend" instead of the whole team working together. However, that more holistic approach takes time and a lot of intensive training, so I don't mind this at the moment. I don't think he's necessarily getting the best out of our players playing them in the roles he's given them, but I think he's essentially right.
I was very impressed with what he did in the Jan window and as u say he will need time to "mould" things into what he wants.
Fully agreed. We've debated the thing about United's formation and so on, but what's beyond dispute is that their players have trained and played together for a long time now, and certain things about each others' games will now be second nature to them. Same goes for Barcelona, Arsenal, Chelsea when they clicked last season, our own great side under Saunders - it's all about time and training and building a team unit, and we should give this to Ged.
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If GED/Monty/You think its a good system I have no issue but I dont, I dont think we are playing our best attacking players Gabby, Downing/Ash/Marc in their best, most natural positions but thats just how I see it and since we have started playing 4 5 1/4 3 3 we have not put a run of results together .
I don't necessarily think our current system is the best we could do. I always think 4-2-3-1 is a bit rigid sometimes, a little bit 'special teams' - i.e. saying "you attack, you defend" instead of the whole team working together. However, that more holistic approach takes time and a lot of intensive training, so I don't mind this at the moment. I don't think he's necessarily getting the best out of our players playing them in the roles he's given them, but I think he's essentially right.
I was very impressed with what he did in the Jan window and as u say he will need time to "mould" things into what he wants.
Fully agreed. We've debated the thing about United's formation and so on, but what's beyond dispute is that their players have trained and played together for a long time now, and certain things about each others' games will now be second nature to them. Same goes for Barcelona, Arsenal, Chelsea when they clicked last season, our own great side under Saunders - it's all about time and training and building a team unit, and we should give this to Ged.
agree completely with everything you said there
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Twice Ashley went over in front of the Villa fans in the second half and he looked to the fans almost begging for support......sorry mate but you are becoming embarassing.
Stay on your feet and you will become a better player. I love his workrate and enthuisiasm but he is becoming a cheat and one that refs will ignore even when there is a clear cut foul.
At the time I thought the pen was a stone wall one but having seen the MOTD re-run and being more sober I think the ref got it right.
I would love Ash to return to his earlier form however it may just be time to cash in.
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Thirdly....... look at the league table how many points are Man Utd ahead
They played 4-5-1 yesterday.
That was one game out of 30+ this season
No it wasn't, they've played it regularly.
No they dont if they have played 4 5 1 how come Berbatov has played 29 games and Rooney has played 21 games this season
In the games they both played, were they both out and out strikers in a 4 4 2? I think you'll find they weren't. Rooney Played in the same role as Gabby for many of them, and when he didn't he dropped deep, almost as another midfield player.
If the game is as simple as you make out we'd all be great players and fantastic managers ourselves.
From reading the posts on here it seems the majority think he's underperforming, needs to be back out on the wing and many won't be too bothered if he leaves in the summer.
Have I said, he needs to lose that stupid snood?!
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It's true thAt once he gets a reputation of a being a diver he will find that even some clear cut decisions will go against him- refs will be aware of it in the way they were with ronaldo- maybe he has taken lessons fron heskey who for a man of his size should be ashamed he hits the floor at the slightest touch- I don't like to see it.
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His crossing has fallen away drastically. He’s a total waste from set pieces of late.
Ditto Stewart Downing. For two such talented players, neither can cross, take a free kick or corner.
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It's true thAt once he gets a reputation of a being a diver he will find that even some clear cut decisions will go against him- refs will be aware of it in the way they were with ronaldo- maybe he has taken lessons fron heskey who for a man of his size should be ashamed he hits the floor at the slightest touch- I don't like to see it.
Agreed.
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Norm Crandles was right at the start of the season, if anyone offers a decent pile take their hands off.
Young has talent but he's in that category of players that rarely do it consistently enough. He can, he does, but not often enough.
He'll never be a Giggs, a Cowans, the sort of player who contributes effectively all the time but at times just does that something special, he's not that sort mentally.
Downing is.
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He's a top quality player. We're a better side when he's in it. People have unrealistic expectations. They seem to think every pass should be a killer ball and every cross drop straight on the strikers head. That just shows a lack of understanding of the game. However, if you look back you'll see that he's involved in a large percentage of our goals. His work rate is fantastic and his passion and commitment are obvious. Yes, he can appear petulant but that's because he's desperate to win. Yes, he sometimes looks for fouls but that's the modern game and expecting different is like expecting teenagers to stop using SMS.
Ironically I think that part of the problem around Young is that he thinks every time he gets the ball he has to deliver a killer pass, a magical piece of skill, or beat 2 or 3 players, when often a simple ball would serve the team much better. He needs to develop that footballing intelligence of knowing when to keep things simple and do the basics right and when to try that 'something special'. Yes he's involved in many of our goals and can change a match in an instant, but as with Downing, he wastes so many chances that you have to wonder if the team would do better without him and if there is too much wastage for the return we get from him. If he didn't waste so much possession then the team as a whole might create and convert more. Giving the ball away so often doesn't make it easy on the rest of the team, it loses momentum and means we have to spend a lot of time fighting to get the ball back.
For me this is what he needs to do to move on to the next level, otherwise he will become another Lennon or Wright-Phillips, who are just too inconsistent. In a way, going to a big club might help him in this regard, for at somewhere like Man Utd he will be a small fish in a big pond and be told in no uncertain terms what he should be doing and what he shouldn't, you don't get far in teams like that if you waste the ball a lot.
Personally I wouldn't mind keeping him, but i'd rather sell him and get the cash and invest in youth, Albrighton is IMO a better prospect on the wing, and Ireland would be a better prospect in the middle. I have a feeling that Ash will go in the summer and Ireland will be given a chance playing in that role behind the striker.
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I think Troy sums him up perfectly. However, I'll always remember him for this:
It took me bloody ages to find that video.
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Did he wear that stupid Snood playing for England?
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Did he wear that stupid Snood playing for England?
No
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Did he wear that stupid Snood playing for England?
No
funny that eh?
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GH is letting AY play the position he wants to play , to try and keep him happy probably as a sweetner for getting him to sign a contract . GH should just tell him what position to play , to benefit the club which is out wide like two seasons ago.
If hes staying or going , it should be for the best for Villa and not AY, while he is still at the club..
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Spot on juan pablo.
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On the wing his delivery has been poor at best for 18 months. This season he is adapting into a new position, and is infuriating, but at least laid in a couple of balls at Blackpool that deserved goals - most notably the one for Downing which the keeper saved with his legs. His final ball is continuously over egged though, and he does not seem to find as much space as he did there when he was scintillating behind Gabby in the season we did Blues 5-1. Then though, we played a much more formulaic 4-4-2 than we do now though. He is though, Mr Hollywood, and often fecks it up. The big fish thing I think works against him, wehn he came he had to earn his way, and thus played more for the team in terms of creating chances etc and releasing the ball earlier. His petulance is annoying, but his overall workrate could never be questioned.
Overall, I said elsewhere, when United buy him we will miss him as fans. As a team I think if well replaced, it might solve a problem for us, because it is one. But then the whole formation is one at the moment, because it works in patches, and then goes to pot. As far as getting an exchange..... Gibson I am never convinced by. I would take Carrick to sit in front of our back 4, but many wouldn't.
Inner turmoil is what Ashley Young causes me much of the time.
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Chris isn't just we got a shit manager who bluntly hasn't got a clue?
No.
Most of us accepted that this would be a season of transition. We're 8th in the current form table which suggests that we are improving. We'd all love it to be quicker but we are getting there.
Unfortunately the real table tells a different story..... we have played more games than most and if they pick up points in those games in hand we are in bigger trouble. Yes we all wish we were better but clearly under Houllier we are still not as good as we should be.. playing players in unfamiliar positions does not help. Unless we get a huge improvement in the defence and a way to feed Darren Bent up front we are in for a desperate few months - games against Wolves, West Ham West Brom and Wigan will decide if we are up for the fight......its no longer about who has the most talented players its about who wants it the most .....Blackpool showed that yesterday. Not in the same league as our players on paper but have heart and desire in bundles....and as we know so well, the game ain`t played on paper.
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It looks to me that GH is bending over backwards to placate him, he gets to take all the free kicks and plays in the position he wants to play. I have never known the club pander to a player in the way we do Young. I wouldnt mind if he was that good, he is a very talented player but not the world beater he seems to think he is. He will go in the summer and I dont think it will be that big a problem.
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Wise words from you Villa cross the Mersey- although I think the team spirit and effort have improved since Sunderland.
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Thanks and yes there has been an improvement but when faced between journeymen wishing to spend another season in the prem versus prima donnas who will feck off as soon as we get relegated I think I know who I would put my money on.
Coker (gives all ) but is probably off, Young probably off, Downing not a fighter, Dunne wants to stay up north, Friedel likewise, Warnock also likewise, Walker back to spuds, Ireland anywhere but B6.
All of a sudden it doesn`t look so great...
Potentially we will be looking at the kids to get us out of this shit...right now that looks the best option.
Desperate or what ?
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.Blackpool showed that yesterday. Not in the same league as our players on paper but have heart and desire in bundles....and as we know so well, the game ain`t played on paper.
Yet they didn't beat us despite being at home and having an extra man for 20 minutes plus injury time, we showed plenty of heart and desire. As I mentioned we are 8th best on current form, most teams around us are doing worse than we are. There's a tendency to overstate the qualities of others while downplaying our own. If we continue with the level of performance we've shown in recent weeks (one defeat in eight) then we'll be fine.
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The boy that cried Wolf.
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.Blackpool showed that yesterday. Not in the same league as our players on paper but have heart and desire in bundles....and as we know so well, the game ain`t played on paper.
Yet they didn't beat us despite being at home and having an extra man for 20 minutes plus injury time, we showed plenty of heart and desire. As I mentioned we are 8th best on current form, most teams around us are doing worse than we are. There's a tendency to overstate the qualities of others while downplaying our own. If we continue with the level of performance we've shown in recent weeks (one defeat in eight) then we'll be fine.
Hardly..." if we continue the level of performance we`ve shown in recent weeks" we will get a point off each of our close rivals and those just above us giving 9 points = Total 39 points assuming losses to Liverpool and Arsenal).
Enough to survive?
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we need 3 wins, as the draws will take care of them selves, beat B Burn and we are on the way, lose and it starts getting fraught.
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.Blackpool showed that yesterday. Not in the same league as our players on paper but have heart and desire in bundles....and as we know so well, the game ain`t played on paper.
Yet they didn't beat us despite being at home and having an extra man for 20 minutes plus injury time, we showed plenty of heart and desire. As I mentioned we are 8th best on current form, most teams around us are doing worse than we are. There's a tendency to overstate the qualities of others while downplaying our own. If we continue with the level of performance we've shown in recent weeks (one defeat in eight) then we'll be fine.
Hardly..." if we continue the level of performance we`ve shown in recent weeks" we will get a point off each of our close rivals and those just above us giving 9 points = Total 39 points assuming losses to Liverpool and Arsenal).
Enough to survive?
So you're taking "recent weeks" as the last two games, which is just one week?
Just think of the logic of it. We've lost once in our last eight games and that was at Old Trafford. Over the last six, twelve teams have a worse record than us. We still have problems but other sides have more. I just don't see why we have to be so defeatist.
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O.k the way I see it regarding Young...
Overall been a very good player for us, huge contributor to us finishing 6 three times. However I think it's best for all concerned if he moves on tbh.
Get 12m for him and sign Jarvis or N'zogbia as a sort of replacement. Maybe even a sneaky bid for Adam Johnson?
I've always prefered seeing Young on the left. I know he had poor spells of form there aswell but I dunno I also thought even in the poor spells he'd do something like hit a match winning cross or even shock horro score from open play out there.
PLaying in the hole I've never been a fan of. To me he gets crowded off the ball too easily in there and dosen't release the ball quickly enough.
We're in the middle of Feb and he's yet to score a league goal from open play, dosen't look very good compared to VDV or Tim Cahill does it?
I wouldn't be devastated to see him go, obviously we got burnt with Milner but I see Albrighton on the right, Downing or a new left winger and Gabby and Bent upfront and don't think things would be that bad at all.
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.Blackpool showed that yesterday. Not in the same league as our players on paper but have heart and desire in bundles....and as we know so well, the game ain`t played on paper.
Yet they didn't beat us despite being at home and having an extra man for 20 minutes plus injury time, we showed plenty of heart and desire. As I mentioned we are 8th best on current form, most teams around us are doing worse than we are. There's a tendency to overstate the qualities of others while downplaying our own. If we continue with the level of performance we've shown in recent weeks (one defeat in eight) then we'll be fine.
Hardly..." if we continue the level of performance we`ve shown in recent weeks" we will get a point off each of our close rivals and those just above us giving 9 points = Total 39 points assuming losses to Liverpool and Arsenal).
Enough to survive?
So you're taking "recent weeks" as the last two games, which is just one week?
Just think of the logic of it. We've lost once in our last eight games and that was at Old Trafford. Over the last six, twelve teams have a worse record than us. We still have problems but other sides have more. I just don't see why we have to be so defeatist.
Recent form is what you suggested ....I like to think myself as a realist rather a defeatist :)
Lets just hope we can limp over the line this season and regroup next season as a premiership outfit perhaps with a younger man at the helm .... your mate DOL is still looking for a job .... that`s a joke by the way
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O.k the way I see it regarding Young...
Overall been a very good player for us, huge contributor to us finishing 6 three times. However I think it's best for all concerned if he moves on tbh.
Get 12m for him and sign Jarvis or N'zogbia as a sort of replacement. Maybe even a sneaky bid for Adam Johnson?
I've always prefered seeing Young on the left. I know he had poor spells of form there aswell but I dunno I also thought even in the poor spells he'd do something like hit a match winning cross or even shock horro score from open play out there.
PLaying in the hole I've never been a fan of. To me he gets crowded off the ball too easily in there and dosen't release the ball quickly enough.
We're in the middle of Feb and he's yet to score a league goal from open play, dosen't look very good compared to VDV or Tim Cahill does it?
I wouldn't be devastated to see him go, obviously we got burnt with Milner but I see Albrighton on the right, Downing or a new left winger and Gabby and Bent upfront and don't think things would be that bad at all.
Its the second most difficult position to play and there are different versions of how to play there, Bergkamp, Beardsley etc and as you mention VDV, I dont think Young has the ability to play there
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Although this has been a tough season I would Not want to consider changing manager in the summer, let houllier build his team up and I think next season will see us competing for a Europa league place and looking at top 8 at least.
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Although this has been a tough season I would Not want to consider changing manager in the summer, let houllier build his team up and I think next season will see us competing for a Europa league place and looking at top 8 at least.
Hold on to your seats
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And the BAFTA goes to...
(Actually I like him - it's just the pouting gets me down)
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Norm Crandles was right at the start of the season, if anyone offers a decent pile take their hands off.
If I'm correct Mr Crandles first espoused this view - which was then a fairly controversial one, at the start of 2009, at the height of Young's form when we would all have willingly sired his offspring were that, in the case of 87% of posters on this forum, biologically possible.
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Young is starting to seriously annoy me. Twice he took the ball off Downing for free kicks, which were more suited for a left footer and making a whingeing child our captain is a terrible mistake. He has got to play on the wing, where he can just get the ball over. He wants to play in the "hole" to try and get more goals which would enhance his self belief in his own god like status. He still works hard but needs maybe someone like Cowans to pull him aside and tell it how it is ..........
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...which will likely result in him having a strop and leaving.
See if he signs a new contract. THEN tell him how it is.
It seems to me that he's looking for the MoTD Highlight, the miracle goal, the hail-mary pass that's going to be played over and over and over. Much like Legion's favourite video clip. No, not the one with the donkey, the other one.
If he pulls it off, he'll be thinking that the cream of European sides will come in for him. Fail and...oh well, his future is assured either way, isn't it?
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Straight swap for Milner please
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That'd be nice. Downing on one side, Albrighton on the other. Makoun and Jimmy in the middle. If there were three across the centre of the park (the third that had a decent engine), it'd certainly help to cover any defensive frailties the wingers might have. Sort out the left back slot and it'd be a pretty decent side.
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If Sir Alex was to sign AY Where would he play him?
Wide? Just a wild guess...............................
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...which will likely result in him having a strop and leaving.
See if he signs a new contract. THEN tell him how it is.
It seems to me that he's looking for the MoTD Highlight, the miracle goal, the hail-mary pass that's going to be played over and over and over. Much like Legion's favourite video clip. No, not the one with the donkey, the other one.
If he pulls it off, he'll be thinking that the cream of European sides will come in for him. Fail and...oh well, his future is assured either way, isn't it?
The question is do you hold on to a player who is starting to affect other players opportunities. I admit his work rate is good but when he wants to take every free kick and even corners on his wrong side (to no effect) . What next sub Friedal when we have a penalty against us, giving him an chance to save it and become " the super hero" in every department !! He is losing his alround game in search of a headline moment and has now lost any consistency ......
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I agree entirely with the original post.
Incidentally, I am just after reading something Redknapp said about Kranjcar. Apparently he stays back after every session to practice his shooting. Maybe Ash could take leaf and keep at those crosses til he gets them right.
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Swap for Jimmy in the summer please.
That is never, EVER going to happen. There's no chance he would come back here and I doubt Man City would get rid of him anyway, a real no go unfortunately. Then you have to add in the fact that Ash is nowhere near good enough for City's new world order and the idea gets even more far fetched. Why would you buy Ashley Young when you can pretty much buy anyone in the world? (within reason)
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Totally agree holtender but some people seem to think it will- not a cat in hells chance of milner coming back here in the summer.
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Young is starting to seriously annoy me. Twice he took the ball off Downing for free kicks, which were more suited for a left footer and making a whingeing child our captain is a terrible mistake. He has got to play on the wing, where he can just get the ball over. He wants to play in the "hole" to try and get more goals which would enhance his self belief in his own god like status. He still works hard but needs maybe someone like Cowans to pull him aside and tell it how it is ..........
That's pretty much as I see it. Having watched the Blackpool game again, Ashley was like a loose cannon. He needs to stop trying to control everything and focus on what he does best for the benefit of the team.
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No way will Milner be coming back, I wish he was though.
Would love to see him in the middle with Makoun.
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He has talent but he is not consistant enough. He is also hogging the ball too much without much end result. The same goes for Downing. Any decent offers in the summer and I would let them go. They can be waste full and inconsistant elsewhere. Then we can start playing more creative football rather than running down the wings and hoofing god dam awful crosses in the stands every 30 seconds. Hoof there goes another one. And another.
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This is AVFC not AYFC as the petulant one seems to think. If he has thoughts above his station then I would agree with getting as much for him as we can in the summer. If as reported ManU are interested and he ended up there I think he would go from being a big fish at Villa to a tiddler in ManU's squad. If he rediscovered the form of a couple of years ago then of course I would want him to stay but on the last 18months showing I think he has held us back.
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We need the manager to play hard with him. It seems to me that Houllier is pandering to him by playing him in the middle. When Ash said after the England game that's where he wants to play, that was news to me, since when did he play in that position before, when he was 10 or something!
Houllier needs to grow a pair and put him back out on the wing, then tell Ash if he doesn't like it out on the wing, tough, because that is where he is playing until his contract runs out, end of.
Then whisper in his agents ear that if Ash is a good boy and plays on the wing 'til the end of this season, and keeps his mouth shut, we might let him go if the right price comes in, if not he goes nowhere.
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Bye Ash. Thanks for those two seasons when you were consistently brilliant for us.
I hope your ego will allow you to be happy on Manchester United's bench after you've been a regular starter and captain for us.
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If he does end up there (and it's a big if at this stage) he has the raw talent and time on his side to be a hit up there.
He's probably not at their level yet (though when you see dross like Gibson, Carrick and Obertain getting a game you do wonder) but at 25 he has plenty of time iron out the current weaknesses in his game and develop.
Wonder if Valencia would be available.
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I've thought since the start of the season that this would be his last for Villa. Him u-turning over signing a new contract only made it more inevitable. It's a really tough one for Villa. We've sold our 'best player' every year for the past few years and repeating it again with Young only reinforces the old selling club tag people are so quick to stick on us. But what on Earth can the club do if the player wants out? Just left to get the best possible deal.
I think it's certain he'll be off and I think he's known where to since his u-turn. I though Liverpool at the time and I still do. I foresee a player plus cash deal involving the likes of Joe Cole.
I must also add that those advocating Darren Gibson of Man Utd reserves and the like in part exchange are, no offence intended, deranged.
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So are you rigadon if you think joe cole would come here. I think ash will probaBly attract bigger fish than Liverpool and I'd expect man utd to figure in the bidding.
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What, Joe Cole who isn't playing for Liverpool? This is one of our problems Eastie, we don't think we're worthy.
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Joe cole will be off to spurs if he does leave Liverpool ,Harry came close to landing him last summer and the wages he's on are obscene.
Like I say I think at the reduced price ash will attract because of his contract being in the last year I would expect bigger clubs than Liverpool in the mix for him .
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Maybe but but only if Van Der Vaat or Modric travels up to Manchester (either one). Joe Cole wouldn't get in the Spurs midfield, just like he doesn't get in the Liverpool one. In fact the very last thing Redknapp would want is another crock to join Woodgate and King.
He's close on 30 years old and hasn't recovered from a serious injury which he picked up 2 years ago. I actually don't want him as some makeweight for an in his prime Young. I'd rather we went after the next Ashley Young playing at a Watford or Auxerre.
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I'm not sure houllier would be looking for another winger as we have downing and albrighton and I think the days of playing with two out and out wingers are gone , I'd rather use the cash to sort the defence and keeper positions , Ireland would be better than cole if we could get him performing , but I don't think he's fit at Newcastle at the moment.
Gary Gardner will be a real star next season I believe.
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My mate said that he read in the NOTW that he wants to leave and he does not want to go to Liverpool he hopes Man ure come in for him or something like that
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I stopped taking that seriously after NOTW.
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Wouldn't surprise me phil if Chelsea were sniffing about as well as they lack a top quality wide player , nzogbia would be a very good signing for us but I agree his temperament is questionable.
I think there could be some bargains to be had from whoever goes down as well., maybe jarvis, nzogbia figeroa, Parker etc.
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Putting 2 + 2 together and coming up with 5, i think he is definitely off to Man Utd in the summer unless we make him see out his contract. There was an article i read yesterday where Alex Ferguson said they thought they were going to get one player in the January transfer window, but the club's management then blocked it, but they think they can get that player in the summer. I think he was referring to Young. It would seem Houllier has also made comments in the last day or so about Milner and Barry in hindsight maybe regreting moving on because they don't play as regularly, a message to Young maybe?
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I think he'll probably still be a regular if he goes to Utd. He won't if he goes to City. They simply have too much money and will keep replacing players.
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how many think we would have been given rhe penalty at Blackpool if Ash had not been falling over all day
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He wasn't though. He was kicked 3 times without getting a freekick before the pen. The one where he was booked his foot was taken as he checked back. Sometimes we can be over harsh on his diving, especially as he is possibly the most kicked Villa player I can ever remember.
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Giggs isn't going to last much longer and I agree ash would probably get plenty of games at utd but not in 'the hole'- he may well be the player fergie was talking about, I certainly hope whatever he decides that it doesn't drag on all summer - let's have a decision quickly once the season ends .
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I like Ash, he's a talented player who deserves a crack a Champions League football in his career. So long as he continues to give his all for us while still a Villa player, as both Barry & Milner did admirably before leaving, then I have no problem with him moving on and good luck to him.
Any club at our level will surely be planning well ahead to replace a player approaching the final year of a contract, that's the way it is nowadays.
The day we don't have players who the top clubs want to take off us is the time to worry.
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If he does decide he wants to go, i suggest the following.
If he goes to either Man Utd or Liverpool, take the money. Can't think of too many Man Utd players i'd want and Joe Cole is past it. If he goes to Man City, ask them for Adam Johnson. In the meantime, stick him back out on the wing.
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Can't see houllier sticking him on the wing - only last week he said 'ashley likes playing there' about his new position and I think maybe houllier is trying to appease him in the hope he signs a new deal but whoever buys him will use him as a winger anyway I imagine.
I agree he should be out wide rather than his role in the hole.
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OR we can sell him to Spurs on a swap deal for Pavlyuchenko and Kranjcar. Heck, let's put in a Bid for Dawson as well while we're at it just to piss Arry off.
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I honestly don't think Ashley is good enough for Man Utd.
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I honestly don't think Ashley is good enough for Man Utd.
Not in his current form anyway.
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As I see it, he wants away.
I think he's the next Barry / Milner - but he is more replaceable in N'Zogbia who has more cutting edge than Ash's last 2 years of Villa performances.
I just don't sere why he can't sign a new contract as Villa has done so much for him post Watford and the very least he can do is let us cash in on him to the max.
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As I see it, he wants away.
I think he's the next Barry / Milner - but he is more replaceable in N'Zogbia who has more cutting edge than Ash's last 2 years of Villa performances.
I just don't sere why he can't sign a new contract as Villa has done so much for him post Watford and the very least he can do is let us cash in on him to the max.
He might be thinking that noone would pay that much for him.If his contract was 4+ years and he would be tied here
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He's like a share you got at a reasonable price, watched in soar to incredible prices and then when the problems come out starts to fall.
Do you hold on the off chance the price will recover or cut your losses (or accept a smaller profit) by cashing in?
Cash for Ash for me....oops that sounds like a junior Doctors nice little earner..sorry
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I just don't sere why he can't sign a new contract as Villa has done so much for him post Watford and the very least he can do is let us cash in on him to the max.
Because the less a buying club has to pay us for him the more he can then get from them.
I'd do exactly the same in his position.
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I just don't sere why he can't sign a new contract as Villa has done so much for him post Watford and the very least he can do is let us cash in on him to the max.
Because the less a buying club has to pay us for him the more he can then get from them.
I'd do exactly the same in his position.
True-ish - a ManUre will probably pay him £20k plus a week more than us anyway, maybe even £40k - they'll pay what he's worth irrespective of the transfer fee ( IF HE'S DEEMED WORTH IT) but it's the sort of thing that fans hate - he'll turn the Villa fans against him big time.
Maybe he isn't bothered about that.
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I'd be very surprised if Ash doesn't move on in the summer. If you're a top Premiership performer and you don't play for a club in the Champions League it's a rarity if they stay at that club for longer than three years. At the end of this season we will have gotten four and a half good years out of him.
In my opinion, he's never let the club down, always given his all and if we can get decent money from him it's no bad thing. He's not been at his best this year, but we'll certainly miss him if he goes, but I don't begrudge him Champions League football.
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If he does decide he wants to go, i suggest the following.
If he goes to either Man Utd or Liverpool, take the money. Can't think of too many Man Utd players i'd want and Joe Cole is past it. If he goes to Man City, ask them for Adam Johnson. In the meantime, stick him back out on the wing.
I agree with all of that!
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I just don't sere why he can't sign a new contract as Villa has done so much for him post Watford and the very least he can do is let us cash in on him to the max.
Because the less a buying club has to pay us for him the more he can then get from them.
I'd do exactly the same in his position.
True-ish - a ManUre will probably pay him £20k plus a week more than us anyway, maybe even £40k - they'll pay what he's worth irrespective of the transfer fee ( IF HE'S DEEMED WORTH IT) but it's the sort of thing that fans hate - he'll turn the Villa fans against him big time.
Maybe he isn't bothered about that.
If he signs a new contract and then leaves then they'll turn against him as well. Unless he ends up staying (which he won't) most will turn against him regardless of what he does.
He might as well get an extra couple of million out of it.
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Guess so, in any event GH should be preparing to replace now......
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Time to put Ash back on the wing so we can see if Gabby and Darren can forge a decent strike partnership
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Time to put Ash back on the wing so we can see if Gabby and Darren can forge a decent strike partnership
Heskey would be my choice rather than Gabby.
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Time to put Ash back on the wing so we can see if Gabby and Darren can forge a decent strike partnership
Heskey would be my choice rather than Gabby.
I agree.
Think Bent would work very well with the rejuvenated Heskey.
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Heskey doing his usual work of holding up the ball and laying it off will allow Bent to do what he's good at, loitering around the box. A bit like Heskey and Owen for England perhaps. It needs trying because we're not scoring enough goals with the system we're playing now.
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Heskey doing his usual work of holding up the ball and laying it off will allow Bent to do what he's good at, loitering around the box. A bit like Heskey and Owen for England perhaps. It needs trying because we're not scoring enough goals with the system we're playing now.
Agreed, I think Bent needs a partner. I think I remember a Sunderland fan saying he's not at his best when he's upfront on his own
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When you look at man utds revenue and gates there's no way we can compete with th when it comes to wages paid and if they want ash they will surely get him, he will do well out wife for them
but will have to take his turn when it comes to set pieces as they have better takers than him.
On the contrary many people feel bent is better on his own up front but he needs quality service, give him the chances and he will score , I'd back albrighton to create more for bent than either downing or gabby.
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Drop Young.
Play 4-4-2.
Heskey & Bent upfront. Gabby on for Heskey in the last half hour.
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"Bzzz" - bang head on window - "Bzzz" - bang head on window - "Bzzz" - bang head on window - Bzzz" - bang head on window - "Bzzz" - bang head on window - "Bzzz" - bang head on window
The manager has spent months trying to move us away from 4-4-2, results have started to pick up so the Mike Bassett Collective decide now is the time to abandon it and go back to square 1. <wink>
There's an argument for using it as a tactic later in a game but it would be daft, in my opinion, to ditch it just because of a couple of draws when not long before that we won 3 games in a week.
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Drop Young.
Play 4-4-2.
Heskey & Bent upfront. Gabby on for Heskey in the last half hour.
If we were to play 4-4-2 that would be my favoured option.
I'd still FAR prefer to see us go for a straight 4-5-1 with Bannan in for Gabby and Albrighton in for Young.
When MoN was in charge practically EVERYBODY wanted us to change to 4-5-1 citing the fact it belonged to the seventies and the fact we were piss weak in midfield. Now we have embraced modern football the people are still unhappy. The issue I have is with the 4-2-3-1 we are currently using is the fact we are trying to accommodate three wide players rather than three central ones but hey-ho at least we are using the right formation.
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Forget 442 , we will not be going back to that system unless chasing a game with subs, we need albrighton and downing wide to provide the service for bent and a three man midfield behind with makoun or Bradley in a holding role and an attacking midfielder linking play and getting forward to support bent , who that player is will be the key to how the system works .
I think young will be gone and gabby will be a sub in the main , whether Gardner or bannan or delph can establish themselves in midfield is very interesting - sadly we have the perfect man on the staff in stephen Ireland but I doubt he will get his act together for us.
I think gabby and heskey will be very much squad players next season and not regular starters , and young will be gone .
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Time to put Ash back on the wing so we can see if Gabby and Darren can forge a decent strike partnership
It's all well and good having Gabby and Bent in the middle but you have to provide them with decent service. A quick look at the Guardian chalkboard from Saturday shows we attempted 23 crosses into the box with only one being successful. One. For all the effort of Ashley and Downing, they're hardly producing the final ball.
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I completely agree with Chris, Bentman and Eastie. Straight 4-4-2 with two wingers and two out-and-out centre forwards is dead as an attacking system. It's place now is as a decent defensive, counter-attacking system, whereby a team places two banks of four in front of the ball and counter with, usually, a direct ball to the halfway line where one forward knocks it down for the other/onrushing quick winger.
To try and hold the ball and pick a way through with two central midfielders a mile away from their forwards is nonsensical. These days there is so little room in that final third that you practically need all the manpower you can get in there. The number of times under MON, you'd see our midfielders get the ball just forward of the halfway line and see two forwards hanging about on the edge of the area - with at least 5 opposition players in between. There's no use having all the forwards in the world if the ball's never going to get to them, and this (neat segue into actual thread topic) is one of my main frustrations with Ash. He's meant to play as the link between deep midfield and attack, yet he's constantly making runs beyond Bent, leaving both of them isolated and the midfield without options. People complain about Makoun/NRC/Petrov passing sideways, but with Ash making runs like that, what else are they going to do?
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Agree mark Kelly, albrighton beats his man and crosses the ball , no dallying about , this is what's needed., he's had a couple of weeks out of the team and I hope he comes back refreshed and delivers the final ball that has been so lacking from others.
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TRue monty, we need to find the right man to play the attacking midfield role and link up the play and get a few goals into the bargain , one thing very evident is that Ashley young is not the right man for that role , however much he enjoys it.
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My only worry is that we've finally got a 20 goal a season man in Bent and other than Downing's cross at Old Trafford, he's not had a great deal of service to work from. I think the majority of us agree that Ash playing through the middle and Gabby out wide dose'nt seem to be working as well as it could. No, we're not losing many, but we've only picked up 2 points out the last possible 9.
If we want to get out of trouble and have a comfortable end to the season, maybe changing it slightly could be the way to go.
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TRue monty, we need to find the right man to play the attacking midfield role and link up the play and get a few goals into the bargain , one thing very evident is that Ashley young is not the right man for that role , however much he enjoys it.
I would rather actually having a midfield three who work more as a team, rather than being reliant on one individual 'number 10' type. I do think that we have a number of the players to make this work both short- and long-term, but it'll take time, training, and probably one or two more very good signings.
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"Bzzz" - bang head on window - "Bzzz" - bang head on window - "Bzzz" - bang head on window - Bzzz" - bang head on window - "Bzzz" - bang head on window - "Bzzz" - bang head on window
Chris Smith actually does look like Jeff Goldblum.
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I like the look of makoun, and I'd like a good look at Bradley, delph, gardner and bannan to see exactly what they can do between now and may , we may not need to spend millions as we may already have players in our midst who can adapt to the new system.
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Agree mark Kelly, albrighton beats his man and crosses the ball , no dallying about , this is what's needed., he's had a couple of weeks out of the team and I hope he comes back refreshed and delivers the final ball that has been so lacking from others.
Agree wholeheartedly. He has to come in and give us the directness we need. Downing and Young are very similar. Both look most comfortable wide left and both try to be more sophisticated than a direct Albrighton. For me it has to be one or the other for wide left. What we need is a direct player who puts in good crosses for Bent to score from.
Monty's team principle for the central midfield will work very well with our options. If you watch Makoun or Bradley for long enough you will see that they can operate both defensively and in an attacking sense. Even Bannan despite what you might think of him from his lilliputian physique can do a bit of dirty work and get stuck in. I know from watching them that Bannan and Makoun can provide a good long pass or ball. Bannan especially has the sidness (I'm not resting till that one makes the difference) to deliver the ball and read the runs of other players so we look well set for a three man midfield next season if Ash goes.
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Monty's team principle
I'm f**king trademarking that. It's got a ring to it, like 'Fermat's last theorem' or 'Newton's third law of motion'.
I agree entirely with the post, by the way. How often do you find it that a team sells it's individual 'star' and moves onwards and upwards to better things? The best recent example is probably Inter selling Zlatan and then winning the treble. The point is not trying to replace the player exactly, mainly because all players are different and unique individuals, but finding a new, better way to play - and using the money from that sale wisely, of course.
Ash is an excellent individual talent. But with the youngsters being brought through (carefully and precisely by GH, by all accounts), with the money that should be available from the sales of Young and a couple of others, and with some of the players already brought in, I think next season we can really push on properly.
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Yes , yes , and yes , onwards and upwards !
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I like Ashley Young, but I'm beginning to wonder how effective he's actually been for us this season in terms of end product and also whether he's now inadvertently hampering the team by being played/asking to be played in this free role. It's actually leading to one or two other players being forced into roles that don't suit them...
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He has not been effective since April 20th 2008.
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He has not been effective since April 20th 2008.
Wasn't Everton away after that?
To me he's still o.k on the wing, he at least scores from open play out there and can cross when he dosen't want to be 5 defenders over and over.
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My only worry is that we've finally got a 20 goal a season man in Bent and other than Downing's cross at Old Trafford, he's not had a great deal of service to work from. I think the majority of us agree that Ash playing through the middle and Gabby out wide dose'nt seem to be working as well as it could. No, we're not losing many, but we've only picked up 2 points out the last possible 9.
If we want to get out of trouble and have a comfortable end to the season, maybe changing it slightly could be the way to go.
Dosen't helped we've just stopped playing Albrighton as soon as he signed who has shown this season consistantly he's an excellent crosser.
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I can see the ****** wearing sunglasses and big headphones on the pitch when snoods become too uncomfortable to wear in sultry spring and summer Birmingham.
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He has not been effective since April 20th 2008.
Bollocks.
His winner at Bolton in April '10 was a fucking peach.
We're a poorer side without him and unless he's adequately replaced if/when he goes I think we'll miss him much more than most seem to think.
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He has not been effective since April 20th 2008.
Bollocks.
His winner at Bolton in April '10 was a fucking peach.
We're a poorer side without him and unless he's adequately replaced if/when he goes I think we'll miss him much more than most seem to think.
What that over-hit cross i remember that match like it was yesterday a unconvincing 0-1 win.
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He has not been effective since April 20th 2008.
What game was that? Everton away was on 7th December 2008.
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I'd like to see one last hurrah from him on the Right Wing, where he belongs
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I'd consider dropping Young & Gabby this weekend & giving Downing & Albrighton the wings.
I'd love to see an up for it Ireland or Bannan back in the side with Darren Bent upfront. Bent would thrive on his through balls better than Youngs over hit crosses.
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I'd consider dropping Young & Gabby this weekend & giving Downing & Albrighton the wings.
I'd love to see an up for it Ireland or Bannan back in the side with Darren Bent upfront. Bent would thrive on his through balls better than Youngs over hit crosses.
I agree that Ireland at his Man City best would work great with Bent,but i think theres as much chance as Hodge being Taylors ambassadors assistant,than Ireland turning around his Villa career.
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I'd consider dropping Young & Gabby this weekend & giving Downing & Albrighton the wings.
I'd love to see an up for it Ireland or Bannan back in the side with Darren Bent upfront. Bent would thrive on his through balls better than Youngs over hit crosses.
I think dropping our best player for such a crucial match would be managerial suicide.
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Or if he did it and we won - managerial genius.
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Sell the whinging, cheating, overrated little shit and sign N'Zogbia and Enrique. Our left side would be much much stronger than it is now, jobs a good 'un.
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Sell the whinging, cheating, overrated little shit and sign N'Zogbia and Enrique. Our left side would be much much stronger than it is now, jobs a good 'un.
Is that opinion
a) Perfectly reasoned and well thought through
or
b) Complete and utter gobbledygook and reactionary ill-informed nonsense
Hmm... I wonder
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N'Zogbia is an even bigger whinger than Ashley. Constantly diving too. Decent player though but I honestly think he's a downgrade on Young.
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Sell the whinging, cheating, overrated little shit and sign N'Zogbia and Enrique. Our left side would be much much stronger than it is now, jobs a good 'un.
Is that opinion
a) Perfectly reasoned and well thought through
or
b) Complete and utter gobbledygook and reactionary ill-informed nonsense
Hmm... I wonder
You tell me whats wrong with what i said then? He is overrated, he is a whinger and he is a cheat and if we sold him and signed those two our left side would be much stronger, i fail to see whats wrong with what i said.
It's not a knee jerk reaction with him either, i've been saying he's crap for over a year. Everyone keeps banging on that he should be back on the wing but he couldn't cross the road these days.
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Sounds like it'sjust somebody's opinion. I too would take money for him now as he clearly demands to play where he wants to and has lost the form that made him a great prospect. Decent player but not world class so cash in and improve. I don't like his diving, mannerisms, moaning etc. but that isn't swaying my judgement as that is football nowadays.
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He's been consistently poor for us in the withdrawn striker role. He did play well for England there but that's not enough for me to keep on with it. Unfortunately it looks like GH will keep on playing him there indefinitely.
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You tell me whats wrong with what i said then? He is overrated, he is a whinger and he is a cheat and if we sold him and signed those two our left side would be much stronger, i fail to see whats wrong with what i said.
It's not a knee jerk reaction with him either, i've been saying he's crap for over a year. Everyone keeps banging on that he should be back on the wing but he couldn't cross the road these days.
For me, whatever happens with Young we don't need a new left-winger; we need a second striker/No.10 type to replace him because that's where he's been playing this season. We play Downing left wing.
I wouldn't mind Enrique at LB though.
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He has not been effective since April 20th 2008.
Thats pretty much the game he & Aston Villa peaked under MON , since then its been pretty much a downhill spiral barring a couple of good cup runs.
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Ashley Young is not overrated, he's got everything to his game. This season has been awful, but Ashley is certainly not alone in the naughty corner.
His best position is wide left and if he goes in the summer, he'll be most effective playing there for whoever he signs for. Milner was most effective for us in a central position and was not as effective out wide, simple as that. If we were to finish the season playing three more orthadox central midfielders and Ashley wide left we'd see the best of him again, no doubt. But Houllier doesn't seem to fancy that option.
People, though, who think we can easily replace our best players, seem to have forgotten very quickly about the James Milner shaped hole in our midfield which was patently obvious for the first half of this season.
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He has not been effective since April 20th 2008.
Thats pretty much the game he & Aston Villa peaked under MON , since then its been pretty much a downhill spiral barring a couple of good cup runs.
A downhill spiral? Two 6th place finishes and 2 trips to Wembley? Any way you put it is not a downward spiral. I can understand people saying we stood still, but to say it was a downward spiral is madness.
Young is our most influential player. Everything goes through him. Perhaps this is the problem. We need other options and style in the way we play. If the responsibility was taken away from him, and he could go back to being a winger, one of the best in the country by the way, we may see him shining again.
I want him to stay, and I want us to play him as a winger. In fact I want Houllier to start playing our players in their correct positions full stop.
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It's not a knee jerk reaction with him either, i've been saying he's crap for over a year. Everyone keeps banging on that he should be back on the wing but he couldn't cross the road these days.
Just because you've been spouting bollocks for over a year doesn't make any less bollocks.
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When Ash is playing he is really energetic and gives 100%.
If he goes, we need to replace that, because we have been affected this season by not replacing Milner's energy.
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I'd like to see Ashley back out on the wing on Saturday, especially running at Salgado, who's not the quickest nowadays. Besides, i'd trust him to cross the ball into the box better than Gabby would.
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He can't shoot and he can't cross a ball so why the fuck does he still take every free kick, corner and penalty? Will someone please tell him he's massively overrated and to stop taking them?!
I've never been so frustrated by a Villa player in all my life and to be honest i can't stand him.
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Good player but should not be within 10 yards of a set-piece.
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Good player but should not be within 10 yards of a set-piece.
What is he good at, honestly? And I mean what is he good at that he can do on a regular basis, not what he did for a good string of games 2-3 years ago.
When he tries to take a man on, instead of skinning him and whipping in a ball like he used to, he does some shit little step overs and falls on his arse.
When he tries to take a free kick, it either ends up in someone's back garden or hits the wall.
His corners often fail to beat the first man.
His crosses are shit.
He rarely scores.
He frequently throws himself on the floor, and wears a fucking snood.
I genuinely don't see what he offers to the team. For far too long, we've been carrying the arrogant, petulant little tosser, hoping he comes good. I hope he fucks off.
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If Spurs were to offer a straight swap for Walker/Young I'd snap their hands off.
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Good player but not great. Doesn't score nearly enough from open play (how many has he got this season from open play?). Would only let him go if we had a better replacment lined up, he's still a dangerous, if frustrating, player.
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Good player but should not be within 10 yards of a set-piece.
What is he good at, honestly? And I mean what is he good at that he can do on a regular basis, not what he did for a good string of games 2-3 years ago.
When he tries to take a man on, instead of skinning him and whipping in a ball like he used to, he does some shit little step overs and falls on his arse.
When he tries to take a free kick, it either ends up in someone's back garden or hits the wall.
His corners often fail to beat the first man.
His crosses are shit.
He rarely scores.
He frequently throws himself on the floor, and wears a fucking snood.
I genuinely don't see what he offers to the team. For far too long, we've been carrying the arrogant, petulant little tosser, hoping he comes good. I hope he fucks off.
This.
I've been saying everything you said for about 2 years now. He's the most overrated player i've ever seen in a Villa shirt.
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He can't shoot and he can't cross a ball so why the fuck does he still take every free kick, corner and penalty? Will someone please tell him he's massively overrated and to stop taking them?!
I've never been so frustrated by a Villa player in all my life and to be honest i can't stand him.
I honestly believe he's been allowed to play 'in the hole', rather than his best position wide left, is allowed to take all the set pieces, and has been given the captain's arm band (i.e. have everything his own way) all for one reason - to persuade him to sign a new contract.
Two seasons ago I would have agreed with this.
Now I'd take the money
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I agree. He's not delivering.
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O'Neill once said about Ashley ‘It was world-class stuff from a world-class player,’
I'm sorry, but I thought it was a foolish statement then, even more so now.
A straight swop for Milner would be my choice, or as SB said, Kyle Walker.
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I wrote a piece for the latest H+V about Ash and his Roy of the Rovers antics. I think it holds firm.
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Young Will definately be leaving in the Summer until then we need him to knuckle down and keep it simple.
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He may not be 'delivering' but he never lacks for effort. It seems to me that most people here have given up on him staying next season and if by any chance he read this thread, would think that we all want him out of the Club asap. I want him to stay and develop in a team that plays better football. I want him to stay and fulfill his potential with US. I want him to stay and be Captain of the Club next time we win a trophy.
The one thing which he's guilty of is trying too hard. Get off his back FFS!
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Having been at the game today, I have to say ash played well and was at the heart of most of our offensive play, didn't look too bad a pen from where I was, more a good save than a miss.
Still think he's best as an out and out winger
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This is so boringly predictable. He'll be off at seasons end to Spurs, Man City or 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. Only thing i'm unsure about is the reason he'll give on his departure.
It'll either be our relegation from the Premier League or the fact that the Club doesn't show enough ambition to win silverware.
After the Man City farce I wouldn't blame him either.
If we really wanted to win things (which I now know we don't - thanks for clearing that one up for me Mr Houllier) we can't afford to be losing the likes of Ashley Young.
Now we can try to dull the pain by telling each other, he's overrated, cannot take free kicks, dives, we have youngsters, infact whatever makes you feel better about his impending departure, but the fact remains he's one of our better players and it'll be a loss to the squad.
How have we got ourselves into this position.
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You shouldn't sell your best players, and A.Young, even though he has faults (don't we all), is probably our best player. If you want to move forward, you should keep them.
However, A.Young will leave because better clubs want him and we're not up to his standards at the moment.
Personally, I'd see if we could get Milner than Walker, only for the reason that a midfielder can have a much greater effect on the outcome of the match.
Then, I'd also go and ask how much Wigan want for N'Zogbia to replace A.Young. Give him the chance to take the next step up and see if he takes it.
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A top quality player who will move onto better things and leave behind some good memories.
When he does I'll wish him good luck and look forward to watching whoever takes his place.
Exactly the same as with Bruce Rioch, David Platt, Dwight Yorke, Gareth Barry, James Milner etc etc.
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Having been at the game today, I have to say ash played well and was at the heart of most of our offensive play, didn't look too bad a pen from where I was, more a good save than a miss.
Still think he's best as an out and out winger
This.
I was at the game today and can't believe the amount of stick Young has received as well. And for the record, he didn't take every free kick or corner either.
Watched the Villa since the 70's and it's always the same. Starting right from Brian Little our most skillful and talented players have always received the most stick. I think the majority of Villa fans prefer an honest toiler to a mercurial type of player like Young.
If you do go Ashley, best of luck with your new club, it's been a pleasure seeing you in claret and blue. You will leave some fond memories for this poster and I hope that the majority of supporters at your new club will be more tolerant of your failings than a lot of Villa fans.
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Now the International Board have banned snoods surely he'll be angling for a move to somewhere warmer.
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I prepared to move back from my stance of selling him, but someone needs to get a grip of him so we have other options at dead ball situations
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I prepared to move back from my stance of selling him, but someone needs to get a grip of him so we have other options at dead ball situations
His free kicks and corners were worse than usual today. He's abysmal at them, so god knows why he persists in grabbing the ball at dead ball situations.
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And for the record, he didn't take every free kick or corner either.
No, but he did take the majority of them, and every single one of them was shit.
He's not a bad player, on his day he's a bloody great player, but his day hasn't been seen for a while now, and we cannot afford passengers in our situation.
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Every free kick and corner he took was shit (again). His penalty was crap too but at least today he was up for it and looked good in open play. Sadly this is not always the case these days.
He made things happen today and looked dangerous but he will be off in the summer . I don't blame him .
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Having been at the game today, I have to say ash played well and was at the heart of most of our offensive play, didn't look too bad a pen from where I was, more a good save than a miss.
Still think he's best as an out and out winger
Having seen numerous replays of it, i'd say it was a poor penalty.
I think that because he's captain, he thinks he's got to try and take everything.
Also worried that he's dictating where he plays and that Houllier should grow a pair and tell him he's going to play on the wing. Having said that, he does seem to have been a little better in the hole since the England game.
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We should be playing with 2 of Ashley/Downing/Albrighton up front with Bent, three midfielders behind them and two full backs who can get forward (eg Walker). The two upfront with Bent have the freedom to play across the front area where they are going to be more dangerous, running at the defence and creating chances or having shots.
Ashley got the penalty yesterday by doing this and also did it a couple of times against Blackburn when he cut in from the wing and played a ball across the goal just too far in front of Bent.
IMO his general play is not best suited to playing "in the hole" as he doesn't see what is around him quickly enough and his passing is not of sufficient standard. His main ability is running at people and committing them and to do that he needs to be further upfield.
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If Spurs were to offer a straight swap for Walker/Young I'd snap their hands off.
Now that, I'm afraid, is utter tosh. Young for Walker! Seriously?
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Walker + 8m
Why is ash captain? It should be NRC
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If Spurs were to offer a straight swap for Walker/Young I'd snap their hands off.
Now that, I'm afraid, is utter tosh. Young for Walker! Seriously?
Luke?
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I think it's rubbish to suggest that Young is forcing Houllier to play him in the middle. Firstly, the manager has shown many times that he's not afraid to upset big egos, secondly, he started him out wide in one of his first games and then switched him at half time and remarked afterwards how much better he was there and, thirdly, he links up very well with Darren Bent, he must have put him through half a dozen times yesterday.
We've got other players who can play the wide midfield or winger role, we don't have anyone else who can do what Ash does.
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I'll be sad to see him go, he provides us with a spark, but I think he'll be gone, even if we escape relegation.
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I think he'll be gone, but hopefully we get good money for him and invest it wisely. If he stays, then great.
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It's sad to see us selling our bes player 3 years in a row but there will be some who say good riddance, I won't be one of them. We lost Milner last year and are now seriosly struggling in midfield. Losing Ash will make us even weaker, but it is as sure as night follows day that he will be off in the summer. Step forward Mr. Albrighton.
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It's sad to see us selling our bes player 3 years in a row but there will be some who say good riddance, I won't be one of them. We lost Milner last year and are now seriosly struggling in midfield. Losing Ash will make us even weaker, but it is as sure as night follows day that he will be off in the summer. Step forward Mr. Albrighton.
Our finances are looking horrendous, so something has got to give.
I would imagine he'll go for about £18m and we'll spend half of it.
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I say let's cash in. He thinks he's too big for the club and the manager is doing his best to reinforce that opinion:
"Boss, I want to play in the middle"
"Boss, I want to take all our penalties, corners, free kicks, etc, etc"
"Boss, I want to be captain"
Although I don't see it at the games I imagine there is also
"Boss, could you wipe my arse"
His body language sucks and I'd rather have someone in the team working for the team than someone there who thinks the team is working for him. The frustrating thing is that if he goes to one of the "bigger" clubs he'll just become a bit part squad player, just like Milner at Man City.
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Having been at the game today, I have to say ash played well and was at the heart of most of our offensive play, didn't look too bad a pen from where I was, more a good save than a miss.
Still think he's best as an out and out winger
I have to disagree Wiki, it was possibly the worst penalty I've ever seen. The reason is that Jaaskeleinen stood to one side, offering Ash a full two thirds of the goal to aim at. It was a bit of psychology and most players with any brains would have said okay 2/3 of the goal to aim at, just fucking blast it anywhere in that 1/3 nearest the post and no keeper in the world is quick enough to get that far across that quickly. And having two thirds to aim at gives you a big margin for error. That's what Barry or Milner or Carew would have done I reckon. What does Billy big bollocks do? Knowing there is only one way the keeper is going to dive? ? He places it, softly, about half way between the post and the centre of the goal, at exactly the spot that gives the keeper every chance of reaching it. Mindnumbingly dumb.
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"Boss, could you wipe my arse"
That was actually Tatoo's original catch phrase in the 1980's series 'Fantasy Island'
Ricardo Montalban never liked it and had it removed.
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He can be frustrating but I think with the exception of Downing (don't laugh at the back ::)) he's the one player we have who could probably fit comfortably into Man Utd's squad. I'm sure that's where he is heading. I'm glad Houllier made him captain and talks him up (as MON did), as it's probably our only hope of holding onto him.
He's added versatility to his undoubted pace, he can deliver a cross more consistently than the likes of Walcott or Lennon (I'm sure Capello can see that by now). We've had a few seasons from him now and he's come a long way from the player whose price tag once seemed too big for him, or at least for some Villa fans. It would be a great shame to lose another player of quality but I wouldn't blame him, given that I imagine he can't see Villa getting anywhere near the Champions League - and this season even mid table seems beyond us. His workrate has also been fantastic and he seems to be lucky with injury.
Consistency is the only thing holding him back but I think at times he's tried to carry the burden of doing too much and possibly teams have worked him out and he's having to work a lot harder.
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Why the frig is he captain?
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well somewhat related to the hread i guess if ash young moves on jarvis @wolves could repalce him.
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well somewhat related to the hread i guess if ash young moves on jarvis @wolves could repalce him.
I'd be happy with Jarvis
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well somewhat related to the hread i guess if ash young moves on jarvis @wolves could repalce him.
I'd be happy with Jarvis
Dunno.
Looks a bit creepy to me
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From a business point of view we can't allow him not to sign a contract this summer.If he signs then keep him unless a stupid offe comes in.If he does'nt sign then get the best dal for us.
Personally i think both Downing an Albrighton are bette wingers, and deliver bette balls into the box, so i would'nt drop either of them for him.Not sure he gets enough goals, or creates enough chancesto play in te "hole".
Pesonally would try to tempt Spuds to includ Walker in a deal for him.
Good Luck to him whatever happens, because you cannot question his commitment.
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And for the record, he didn't take every free kick or corner either.
No, but he did take the majority of them, and every single one of them was shit.
He's not a bad player, on his day he's a bloody great player, but his day hasn't been seen for a while now, and we cannot afford passengers in our situation.
Agree we can't carry passengers and Ashley Young is far from that. Did I imagine Blackburn last week?. Was that not his day?
I know he pisses a lot of people off and I can see why as he can be an annoying little git, but let's not re-write history?. He was outstanding last Saturday, so by my reckoning that's about 7 days.
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Having been at the game today, I have to say ash played well and was at the heart of most of our offensive play, didn't look too bad a pen from where I was, more a good save than a miss.
Still think he's best as an out and out winger
I have to disagree Wiki, it was possibly the worst penalty I've ever seen. The reason is that Jaaskeleinen stood to one side, offering Ash a full two thirds of the goal to aim at. It was a bit of psychology and most players with any brains would have said okay 2/3 of the goal to aim at, just fucking blast it anywhere in that 1/3 nearest the post and no keeper in the world is quick enough to get that far across that quickly. And having two thirds to aim at gives you a big margin for error. That's what Barry or Milner or Carew would have done I reckon. What does Billy big bollocks do? Knowing there is only one way the keeper is going to dive? ? He places it, softly, about half way between the post and the centre of the goal, at exactly the spot that gives the keeper every chance of reaching it. Mindnumbingly dumb.
Jaaskeleinen was standing in the centre of his goal well before the penalty was actually taken, he didn't place it softly, and as for the worst penalty you've ever seen; have you never seen a penalty go wide or over?
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He has been excellent the last couple of games except when taking a dead ball situation, in fact he has been useless at that for a long time. He will be gone in the summer if that I have no doubt.
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he always puts his penalties in the same bleeding place so it was inevitable as soon as a keeper dived the same way, he'd saved it.
Seeing as Jussi was playing mind games, he should've just done what Zamora did and hit it straight down the middle.
I knew as soon as he missed it, we'd crumble and lose.
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sorry I thought that before he took it....knew he would miss it so went for a pee...and surprise surprise...just as I knew we would concede in the last minutes of first and second halves.
Never thought of me as a know-it-all.....at all
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Jaaskeleinen was standing in the centre of his goal well before the penalty was actually taken, he didn't place it softly, and as for the worst penalty you've ever seen; have you never seen a penalty go wide or over?
Not on my TV he wasn't, he was clearly to the right of centre from Ash's viewpoint. I think the commentator even mentioned something about him being a long way off centre. Unless he centred himself at the last second. Yes I've seen them miss the target, but for me that's a case of shit happens and nothing to do with the the player in question not using his brains.
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If Spurs were to offer a straight swap for Walker/Young I'd snap their hands off.
Now that, I'm afraid, is utter tosh. Young for Walker! Seriously?
Yes seriously - Young will have 1 season left at the end of the year, so as such I can't see us getting much more than £15m for him at best.
Harry will also know that we want a Right Back/Walker - so he will hold the cards in that regard.
So if the swap was offered I'd take it.
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I rate Ashley Young as a very good player. I offer you two independent insights.
I enjoyed a dinner with a football professional who has been involved with AY since he joined Watford.His view was that AY's lack of intelligence and inadequate footballing ambition and desire meant that he was destined to fall short at the highest level IInternationals/ CL).
I know a much capped ex England international who has spent time with AY, Milner and Barry on a number of occasions. He told me that, Barry and Milner in particular fired volleys of questions at him seeking to learn from his experiences (Milner had an encyclopedic knowledge of International football, teams, players and tactics from the 60's onwards). Young just put his headphones on.
Just maybe, we have seen the best of Ashley Young, maybe it doesnt get better, and a lucrative contract with Spurs will be his destiny.
I am not saying get rid, nor am I saying that he is doomed to fail elsewhere. I am saying that there is a case, for shaking hands, thanking him and wishing him all the best, and making a modest profit on the original transfer fee.
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Jaaskeleinen was standing in the centre of his goal well before the penalty was actually taken, he didn't place it softly, and as for the worst penalty you've ever seen; have you never seen a penalty go wide or over?
Not on my TV he wasn't, he was clearly to the right of centre from Ash's viewpoint. I think the commentator even mentioned something about him being a long way off centre. Unless he centred himself at the last second. Yes I've seen them miss the target, but for me that's a case of shit happens and nothing to do with the the player in question not using his brains.
As Ash commenced his run up Jussi swiftly moved to the centre of the goal which also meant that his body momentum was going that way as he flung himself to his right to make the save. If the shot had gone to his left he would not have had a cats chance in hell of saving it.
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Gary, i think there are valid points there. That said if we are comparing intellect and footballing skill, consider Ashley Cole. The man is a clown off the pitch, yet the best left back in the world on the pitch. Im undecided on how I feel on him. On his pomp, he is unplayable, and a joy to watch in a claret and blue top. He has the potential to be a god. He has pace and intelligence. A lot of his detractors bemoan him bitching at the ref, his easy going down, and his wanting to take every free kick. All of those things are petulance, but also desire to be involved, desire to win. Even when he is off form, he wants to at least make things happen. My undecided part is down to what he wants to do. If he seriously thinks that we are holding him back, or he deserves to play in the Champions league, and doesnt see himself being a key point to getting Villa to that level, then Im not sure I want him, and would rather take the wages and money to find someone who does. He has a big decision to make for himself. I hope he makes the right one IMO and sticks with us. Milner and Barry are not ringing endorsements for going on and bettering themselves, they have not had great seasons, and may still be out of the Champions league next time, with Arse, Chelski and United for me the top three teams, City are on poorer form than Spuds, though I hate to say it.
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Garyfouroaks I was trying to guess who much capped ex-England international might be - possibly Sid but he was hardly much capped, so I'm thinking possibly Stuart Pearce or David Platt from their involvement with the under 21s. In any case it's hard to argue with the synopsis - Milner's demeanour indicates that he is someone who wants to exploit every last ounce of his talent, whereas Ash doesn't strike me as the most dedicated of preofessionals and one who maybe thinks he's already made it and is happy to cruise along. If you could combine Milner's attitude with Ash's natural ability you would have a world class player.
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I rate Ashley Young as a very good player. I offer you two independent insights.
I enjoyed a dinner with a football professional who has been involved with AY since he joined Watford.His view was that AY's lack of intelligence and inadequate footballing ambition and desire meant that he was destined to fall short at the highest level IInternationals/ CL).
I know a much capped ex England international who has spent time with AY, Milner and Barry on a number of occasions. He told me that, Barry and Milner in particular fired volleys of questions at him seeking to learn from his experiences (Milner had an encyclopedic knowledge of International football, teams, players and tactics from the 60's onwards). Young just put his headphones on.
Interesting stuff and very believable.
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I would easily change Milner with Ash..
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Ash is a ringer for Marlow in series 3 of 'The Wire'
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Vs, I think spurs valuation of walker If they did sell him would be very similar to ash s valuation- with 1 yr left on his contract we will be looking £12m to £15m max, and walker would be around maybe £10 m knowing spurs., may be worth trying to get walker plus £5m and see what they say?
If ash had a long contract we would be looking £20m-£25m, but that is not the case now.
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I rate Ashley Young as a very good player. I offer you two independent insights.
I enjoyed a dinner with a football professional who has been involved with AY since he joined Watford.His view was that AY's lack of intelligence and inadequate footballing ambition and desire meant that he was destined to fall short at the highest level IInternationals/ CL).
I know a much capped ex England international who has spent time with AY, Milner and Barry on a number of occasions. He told me that, Barry and Milner in particular fired volleys of questions at him seeking to learn from his experiences (Milner had an encyclopedic knowledge of International football, teams, players and tactics from the 60's onwards). Young just put his headphones on.
Interesting stuff and very believable.
Believable maybe, but so what? Barry and Milner both strike me as of above average intelligence for footballers, whereas Ashley Young is probably more your stereotypical thickie. But so what? Some of the best footballers in the league are as thick as pigshit and twice as arrogant. I can't imagine Ashley Cole or Wayne Rooney behaving any differently to Young for example.
I'd rather keep Young than have Milner or Barry back, personally.
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I'd far rather milner than ash anyday personally, but it will not happen.
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I would easily change Milner with Ash..
Get over Milner, he ain't coming back
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I rate Ashley Young as a very good player. I offer you two independent insights.
I enjoyed a dinner with a football professional who has been involved with AY since he joined Watford.His view was that AY's lack of intelligence and inadequate footballing ambition and desire meant that he was destined to fall short at the highest level IInternationals/ CL).
I know a much capped ex England international who has spent time with AY, Milner and Barry on a number of occasions. He told me that, Barry and Milner in particular fired volleys of questions at him seeking to learn from his experiences (Milner had an encyclopedic knowledge of International football, teams, players and tactics from the 60's onwards). Young just put his headphones on.
Interesting stuff and very believable.
Believable maybe, but so what? Barry and Milner both strike me as of above average intelligence for footballers, whereas Ashley Young is probably more your stereotypical thickie. But so what? Some of the best footballers in the league are as thick as pigshit and twice as arrogant. I can't imagine Ashley Cole or Wayne Rooney behaving any differently to Young for example.
I'd rather keep Young than have Milner or Barry back, personally.
My 'take' on the GaryFourOaks post above is:
Players with perception, an interest in their sport and a natural inquisitiveness will get on better than those who sit back and accept their talent unquestioningly.
Another example is Rooney: not clever, but he is a v perceptive player.
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More boring bullshit about Ashley Young I don't think he'll be a Villa player come next September (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1365122/Ashley-Young-targets-Manchester-United-transfer.html)
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Let's hopefully enjoy his last 9 games in Villa colours
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Supposedly Man Utd after him, but come on, is he really good enough to play for them?
I'd say not.
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Supposedly Man Utd after him, but come on, is he really good enough to play for them?
I'd say not.
I'd back Ferguson to get the best out of him.
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Me too. And when you look at Man United's squad, there are a lot of fairly ordinary players in there now.
He's leaving in the summer; just a case of to who and how much we can ratchet the price up.
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Supposedly Man Utd after him, but come on, is he really good enough to play for them?
I'd say not.
I'd back Ferguson to get the best out of him.
For a start he wouldn't have the sway he has at Villa with regards to set pieces.
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I said after the Manc FA Cup surrender that it would be the final deciding factor for Ash to leave, and to be honest - although it would be annoying to yet again lose possibly our best player - I wouldn't begrudge him a move to Manure. I was resentful of Barry and Milner going to Mancs because at the time we seemed to be pressing for a top four place ourselves, and their moves seemed money-driven. But with us fighting a relegation battle, and with a manager who thinks our best 11 aren't good enough compete for the FA Cup, you couldn't blame him for wanting to move to a team where he'll win something and probably cement his England place - and Ferguson will get the best out of him in his best position on the wing, not 'in the hole'.
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For the 3rd summer in a row we will lose our most gifted player
Speaks volumes about where we sit in the pecking order
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Supposedly Man Utd after him, but come on, is he really good enough to play for them?
I'd say not.
I'd back Ferguson to get the best out of him.
For a start he wouldn't have the sway he has at Villa with regards to set pieces.
Indeed. He really shouldn't ever be allowed to take a free kick again.
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Ash is a ringer for Marlow in series 3 of 'The Wire'
And he was a contestent on the last series of professional masterchef!!
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It's been nailed on obvious that he's off since he didn't sign the contract earlier this season.
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For the 3rd summer in a row we will lose our most gifted player
Speaks volumes about where we sit in the pecking order
That, for me, is the big problem. It's difficult to progress and build something worthwhile if you lose your best player every summer.
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For the 3rd summer in a row we will lose our most gifted player
Speaks volumes about where we sit in the pecking order
That, for me, is the big problem. It's difficult to progress and build something worthwhile if you lose your best player every summer.
Alternatively, we'll possibly take some other team's best player, like we did with Downing, A. Young in the first place, Bent arguably. No, we're not one of the literally two clubs who don't have to worry about losing their best players (Real and Barca), but we hardly have low prestige.
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Even if we were more towards the top of the league I think he’ll be gone in the Summer. Although annoying that we will lose one of our better players again, I think it’s a fact of life that better players will go to bigger clubs and if someone wants to move there’s not that much that can be done. It’s a credit to Villa that we can nurture such players and I’m sure the blueprint is to get the club up to a stage where players will think twice about leaving, although that’s easier said than done.
As Monty said there’s not many clubs that can hold onto there better players, Man U lost Ronaldo, Arsenal may lose Fabregas. We just need to make sure we get the best possible deal when he does go and move forward as best we can. I thank him for his key contributions over the last few years it’s just a pity that he couldn’t maintain the high standards of a couple of seasons ago, if he does go to Man U it will be interesting to see if he can get back to that level and I for one would not begrudge him a move there.
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Jaaskeleinen was standing in the centre of his goal well before the penalty was actually taken, he didn't place it softly, and as for the worst penalty you've ever seen; have you never seen a penalty go wide or over?
Not on my TV he wasn't, he was clearly to the right of centre from Ash's viewpoint. I think the commentator even mentioned something about him being a long way off centre. Unless he centred himself at the last second. Yes I've seen them miss the target, but for me that's a case of shit happens and nothing to do with the the player in question not using his brains.
As Ash commenced his run up Jussi swiftly moved to the centre of the goal which also meant that his body momentum was going that way as he flung himself to his right to make the save. If the shot had gone to his left he would not have had a cats chance in hell of saving it.
Thing is it didn't really matter what Jusskaleinen was doing or where he was standing Young was always going to hit the ball the same way and place it in the same place as he usually does. His technique means that when he's firing on all cylinders then the pace on the ball means its difficult to stop by the keeper. However, the longer he went on scoring but putting the ball in the same place the more it was going to play on his mind, too.
So, forget this psyching out of Young that didn't happen. What did was a 50/50 penalty taker finally missing . That's why I'd take Young off them, and not because of the miss in isolation.
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I'm not really keeping up with the A.Young saga but from what I've read and heard, he's already made up his mind on leaving and we just need to accept it.
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Yeah. When Yorke left, for me it was obvious, he'd go on to do bigger and better things. Milner and Barry have also cemented their places in a top four team. I don't think Young will do that, he's not in the same league.
If we go down, I'd like to keep him and make him play in the championship for a season...see how he'd like that!!
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I think he will go; he'll think (and will be getting told) that he has to go play in the Chumps League to get the international experience to hold down a regular Ingerland slot. Furthermore, it was MON who brought him to VP; presumably a bit of a mentor.
For me the question is how we spend the £10-12m that accrues from the sale. I've said elsewhere that I think the money will be tight this summer, and the youngsters will increasingly be able to force themselves into the fiurst team; but I assume monies got from sales will be ploughed back into the team.
We will not miss AY as long as we buy wisely with what little we have and make best use of the talents already in the squad.
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Indeed as most of you have said, he looks like he is on his way and let's just get top dollar for him and not take any manure rejects, we need to learn from the Stephen Ireland saga that they don't work.
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Also if he does leave we'll be £75-£80k a week better off.
Every little helps
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Yeah. When Yorke left, for me it was obvious, he'd go on to do bigger and better things. Milner and Barry have also cemented their places in a top four team. I don't think Young will do that, he's not in the same league.
If we go down, I'd like to keep him and make him play in the championship for a season...see how he'd like that!!
So our best and most influential player isn't in the same league? What does that say about Aston Villa?
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Bye, Ashley. I'll have fond memories of the player you were 2 or 3 years ago, but, frankly, based on the last two seasons you won't really be missed.
I don't know exactly what you'll do at Old Trafford. You certainly won't be taking all the corners and free-kicks, especially once Fergie and the others realise how poor you've become at managing to beat the first man. And as for penalties... I guess, your biggest asset will be your ability to tumble at the slightest contact and moan to the ref will reap far more rewards once you're clad in red.
The last two Villains who went to Man Utd: Yorke and Bosnich. Success and Failure. I wonder which category you'll end up in?
As for the Villa. Please do the deal quickly. Don't take anyone they want to off-load in P-X: it's cash only. Invest the money wisely.
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Milner and Barry have also cemented their places in a top four team.
Eh? When?
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THAT match at Goodison Park after which the Villa manager at the time reckoned our
Ashley was 'world class' was the defining moment in his career............he's gone backwards
Why is it that someone (either from the club or maybe a good mate) hasn't had a word in
his ear and given him some guidance - 'going to ground so easily' .......' wanting to take every set piece around
the opponents penalty area' ...........'constantly whining and questioning officials' decisions when
they go against him'...........'hopping around on one leg at least once every match but then
having a miracle cure when the ball comes near'
Young7 could and should be a much better player then he is but I can't see it happening, not
at Villa in any event.
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If Spurs were to offer a straight swap for Walker/Young I'd snap their hands off.
Now that, I'm afraid, is utter tosh. Young for Walker! Seriously?
Yes seriously - Young will have 1 season left at the end of the year, so as such I can't see us getting much more than £15m for him at best.
Harry will also know that we want a Right Back/Walker - so he will hold the cards in that regard.
So if the swap was offered I'd take it.
I understand the logic behind what you are saying but I don't rate Walker highly enough to swap him for a player that we could get 12 mil for. Do I think Walker is a decent prospect? Yes. Do I think he is worth 12 mil? Hell no.
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The team is lacking shape by playing 3 wingers and one of them in the hole. Although I'd be disappointed to see him go it will give Houllier - or whoever - the chance to reinvest the money and strengthen in other areas.
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If Spurs were to offer a straight swap for Walker/Young I'd snap their hands off.
Now that, I'm afraid, is utter tosh. Young for Walker! Seriously?
Yes seriously - Young will have 1 season left at the end of the year, so as such I can't see us getting much more than £15m for him at best.
Harry will also know that we want a Right Back/Walker - so he will hold the cards in that regard.
So if the swap was offered I'd take it.
I understand the logic behind what you are saying but I don't rate Walker highly enough to swap him for a player that we could get 12 mil for. Do I think Walker is a decent prospect? Yes. Do I think he is worth 12 mil? Hell no.
Walker is worth £5m max
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The team is lacking shape by playing 3 wingers and one of them in the hole. Although I'd be disappointed to see him go it will give Houllier - or whoever - the chance to reinvest the money and strengthen in other areas.
I agree with this. Hopefully his departure will strengthen us by allowing us to rationalise our formation. The money could hopefully go on funding improvements to our back four.
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Hate the drama he brings with his game, but great player. I just want him to commit his future to the club before I pay much attention to him. Trade him for Kyle Walker and cash in the summer - that would sold a lot of our problems with ball distribution and scoring chances. Make Bent the main man and get Gabby involved again. Then we have a solid back line.
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Do you really think he wants to go? or does his agent want him to go?
I don't think I would want to see him playing against us. Not our 'best player', yet again. Even as supersub.
If ashley knows he is loved...
No, ridiculous idea
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He is a very good winger and an OK 2nd striker thats all, If I the manager of a top 4 team, i would be more interested in Albrighton, he looks like the next Steve Coppell, put it this way i would rather lose Ash than Marc
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The best things in life are free. But you can give them to the birds and bees. I want money, that's what I want.
Ash can go for min £18m. Villa could sign a centre back, a defensive mid and a goalscorer with that dosh.
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Ash will be gone in the summer, I am 100% convinced of that.
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I think he's a good player, but not great. Albrighton seems a better prospect to me. I can't stand the diving, the arguing with refs and the snoods. He could become a top winger if he cut out the histrionics and focused on beating his marker and delivering cross. Imo seen better. Tony Daley and Mark Walter were both better wingers and not in the same league as Tony Morley. Keep him if he can cut out all the nonsense, if not goodbye!
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Think A young is making the team difficult to pick. He is not a proven striker and struggles in the "hole" playing Albrighton on the wing with two established strikers Bent and another. Would make us more effective ......
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I would rather he stayed personally. However, I think he'll be off in the summer.
He changed his agent last summer, didn't he? It does seem as though he's being touted around now.
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So ash has broken the silence an says he wants away in the summer to 1 of the top 5. Quel surprise
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Have you got a link, Wiki?
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England winger Ashley Young has told friends he wants to leave Aston Villa. A source close to the 25-year-old said: "Villa are showing no sign of breaking into the top four and Ashley knows he has to think about playing at the very top if he wants to become an England regular before the 2012 European Championships."
Full story: the Sun
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Cheers, Rip.
Looks like standard agent-concocted fare to me.
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Supposedly Man Utd after him, but come on, is he really good enough to play for them?
I'd say not.
I'd back Ferguson to get the best out of him.
yeah Bebe has looked brilliant .
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Have you got a link, Wiki?
No mate it was on talksport
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If Spurs were to offer a straight swap for Walker/Young I'd snap their hands off.
Now that, I'm afraid, is utter tosh. Young for Walker! Seriously?
Yes seriously - Young will have 1 season left at the end of the year, so as such I can't see us getting much more than £15m for him at best.
Harry will also know that we want a Right Back/Walker - so he will hold the cards in that regard.
So if the swap was offered I'd take it.
I understand the logic behind what you are saying but I don't rate Walker highly enough to swap him for a player that we could get 12 mil for. Do I think Walker is a decent prospect? Yes. Do I think he is worth 12 mil? Hell no.
Walker is worth £5m max
having spunked so much money on the likes of Davis, Harewood , Ireland and Warnock etc. Thats a bargain.
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Have you got a link, Wiki?
No mate it was on talksport
Cheers, anyway, Wiki.
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No surprise , it's been on the cards since he stalled on talks- we've lost better players than ash and progressed onwards- good luck to him.
He has never really convinced me he's the right man to play in the hole , let's hope we can sign someone better suited to that role , I'm happy with Marc and downing playing out wide.
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I always get pissed off when a player says he must leave Villa to go to a Top 4 side to become an England regular.
1. You ( A Young ) are not good enough to be an England regular but thats another debate
2. It never did Barry or Milner any harm being a Villa player while playing for England , You ( young) got into the England team playing for who, yes Villa.
Downing, Walker,Warnock, Bent , Luke Young etc have all been looked at playing for who, Villa.
Heskey was a regular for England , playing for who , Villa.
so please Ash Young I dont want to hear about having to move , so you can become an England regular. You and us know that is bollocks.
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I find it shocking that there are people not only daft enough to listen to Talksport but that hey also take anything they say seriously.
I fully expect Ash to leave in the summer but the fact that Radio Idiot have reported it adds nothing to the story.
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Agree, players who say this England thing are talking bollocks, capello watches us more than most and every chance of playing for England if you play for villa .
He should be leaving because he wants to win things and play in the champions league - I totally understand that logic and of course the money.
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I expect him to leave on the basis of his previous statement.
'I don't want to talk about a new contract until the Summer'
Which is player talk meaning
'I'm fucking off, but i'm not admitting it yet as I don't want to get the fans riled.'
He's had one foot out the door since the start of the season.
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The theory is that playing CL football prepares them better for international level so the two things go together, Eastie.
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Still hope it sparks a bidding war and we get close to 15m
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I'll be stunned if a club as good as Manure want him.
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I think he'll definitely be off in the summer and I'll be sorry to see him go. He can be incredibly frustrating as a player - over-hit set pieces, falling over and waving his arms etc - but when he's on song he's one of the few players who can take players on and give the crowd a real buzz. Having lost our best players in the last couple of summers when we were in the top 6, I can't see him wanting to stay when we are involved in 6-pointer games against the Dingles to stave off a relegation battle, under a manager who believes we aren't good enough to compete in the FA Cup. Given those conditions the question shouldn't be 'will he go?' it should be 'why would he stay?'
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I'll be stunned if a club as good as Manure want him.
I'd be stunned if they weren't. Players like him don't become available every day, he's approaching his best years, he's creative, versatile, hard working and is hardly ever injured.
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I'll be stunned if a club as good as Manure want him.
I'd be stunned if they weren't. Players like him don't become available every day, he's approaching his best years, he's creative, versatile, hard working and is hardly ever injured.
I agree, some people seem to think replacing our best players is an absolute doddle as well.
We've struggled to replace Milner this season and we'll struggle to replace Ash next.
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England winger Ashley Young has told friends he wants to leave Aston Villa. A source close to the 25-year-old said: "Villa are showing no sign of breaking into the top four and Ashley knows he has to think about playing at the very top if he wants to become an England regular before the 2012 European Championships."
Full story: the Sun
Forgive me for being just a tad cynical.
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The Sun also said Nani wanted to leave man U
Lets do a swap
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I'll be stunned if a club as good as Manure want him.
I'd be stunned if they weren't. Players like him don't become available every day, he's approaching his best years, he's creative, versatile, hard working and is hardly ever injured.
I'll have to disagree.
He's a very good player, but he's not up to Manure standards.
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I'm fully prepared for Young to leave now (and I'm not half as bothered as I thought I'd be) but a mickey mouse report of him wanting out with some nameless "a source close to the player said..." is not Young breaking his silence.
We'll miss him but we've missed the 2008/09 Young for a while now. A more specialised central attacking midfielder would be ideal. Somebody like Milner and christ how I wish we could get him back to play in that position. I'm sure Houllier will find a playmaker for that role IF Young leaves.
Maybe somebody like Eden Hazard?
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I'll be stunned if a club as good as Manure want him.
I'd be stunned if they weren't. Players like him don't become available every day, he's approaching his best years, he's creative, versatile, hard working and is hardly ever injured.
I'll have to disagree.
He's a very good player, but he's not up to Manure standards.
The likes of Carrick, Brown and Gibson aren't good enough for them either - but if Ash were available for c. £12-15m and wanted to go there they would be mental not to go for him.
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I think there will be a tug of war between ManUre, BinDippers, Arse & Spurzzz
Dont think Ci£y need another winger
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I think ash will go to man utd and he will fit nicely into their side , him and nani wide would be the modern day kanchelskis and giggs - if utd are in for him and I expect they will be , then I can't see him being interested in going anywhere but there.
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Hmmmm, I think the Man Utd side of the last two seasons has had many players - O'Shea, Evans, Brown, Fletcher, Gibson, Smalling (still can't see the fuss), Park (though I do rate him) that I'd consider to be average - certainly not top-class. But they are part of a very good team and squad, Ferguson gets the best out of them. Young's gettable in the summer for £10-12m, given his contract situation, and I can see him being a target for them, absolutely. Is he that much different, quality wise, to Valencia, for example?
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I've not seen enough of Valencia to compare the two, but surely Ash would be wide right & Valencia on the left ??
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Valencia is a right winger and Young supposedly a left winger.
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Valencia is a right winger and Young supposedly a left winger.
Sorry thats what i meant
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surprise surprise ashley young wants to leave villa......unfortunatly as much as i love the villa we all knew this was coming,atleast he has saw his contract through more or less.....and hes right we dont look like breaking into the top four....players come and go remember andy gray in 1979..... the club will get though this current phase and go on so keep the faith
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i wont boo young hes a decent lad,better players have left before.he can be brilliant or annoying, over rated at times,
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Valencia is a right winger and Young supposedly a left winger.
Wouldn't Ash insist on playing just behind the main striker ?
If so, that would make that Rooney bloke expendable for a swap deal
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As he's fucking off, I can see no reason to carry on pandering to him by having him play behind Bent.
Stick him on the wing where he can cause most damage, get Heskey up front with Bent.
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I'm fully prepared for Young to leave now (and I'm not half as bothered as I thought I'd be) but a mickey mouse report of him wanting out with some nameless "a source close to the player said..." is not Young breaking his silence.
We'll miss him but we've missed the 2008/09 Young for a while now. A more specialised central attacking midfielder would be ideal. Somebody like Milner and christ how I wish we could get him back to play in that position. I'm sure Houllier will find a playmaker for that role IF Young leaves.
Maybe somebody like Eden Hazard?
After reading that last bit, all I could think about was Eddie Izzard playing in the hole laying balls through for bent.
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As soon as we're safe I'd be dropping him and making sure Albrighton, Delph etc get game time
I'm still unclear why he is Captain ?? WTF
If NRC is on the field he should have the armband IMO
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Nani will be the 1st choice wide man - he's had a great season , ash will probably have to get used to rotation if he goes there and he sure won't get all the set pieces that he gets here- wherever he goes I wish him well, infuriating at times but he always gave 100%.
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I've not seen enough of Valencia to compare the two, but surely Ash would be wide right & Valencia on the left ??
It's the other around, as Maz pointed out; but I mentioned Valencia purely as a 'class' comparison while we're debating whether Ashley's 'good enough' for United.... Valencia and Young are on the same level at least, I believe; in fact Young probably has more to offer. United need someone to fill Giggs' boots... and also, stories yesterday that Nani fancies a move to Serie A.
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Ash wins a lot of free kicks in or around the box.
That will be worth a lot of goals to ManUre as Ash won't be taking the resulting free kick
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As he's fucking off, I can see no reason to carry on pandering to him by having him play behind Bent.
Stick him on the wing where he can cause most damage, get Heskey up front with Bent.
I don't understand where this idea that picking him to play the support striker role is pandering to him. The manager has tried him in both positions and, quite rightly, realised that he's more effective in the middle.
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Totally disagree there chris, ash is far more effective as a wide man in my opinion.
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As he's fucking off, I can see no reason to carry on pandering to him by having him play behind Bent.
Stick him on the wing where he can cause most damage, get Heskey up front with Bent.
I don't understand where this idea that picking him to play the support striker role is pandering to him. The manager has tried him in both positions and, quite rightly, realised that he's more effective in the middle.
I'm only going by the fact that it's his 'preferred position' (Houllier)
I think his best days with us were when he was playing left wing, he's still effective, obviously, but the left was where he caused most damage.
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As he's fucking off, I can see no reason to carry on pandering to him by having him play behind Bent.
Stick him on the wing where he can cause most damage, get Heskey up front with Bent.
Spot on, whoever buys him will restore him back to his natural wide left position, where he's most effective
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He's effectively playing as the second striker, but he's only scored 6 league goals so far.
Not good enough.
How many did he score as a winger?
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Watching him drift around at the The Reebok the other week, played ok, but was like a spoilt child
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He 's a better passer of the ball than he is a crosser. He creates far more for us playing where he does now than when he's out wide. If the side that buy him have better options there then they will use him as a winger but I suspect one of the reasons that he'll be a target is that he can play either.
If he goes then it is a replacement for where he plays now that we should be looking at.
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Ash wins a lot of free kicks in or around the box.
That will be worth a lot of goals to ManUre as Ash won't be taking the resulting free kick
Ye totally agree on the amount of free kicks he draws. Wish Houllier would insist on Downing taking the resulting free kick or if there is anyone else who might have some hidden skill ....
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He 's a better passer of the ball than he is a crosser. He creates far more for us playing where he does now than when he's out wide. If the side that buy him have better options there then they will use him as a winger but I suspect one of the reasons that he'll be a target is that he can play either.
If he goes then it is a replacement for where he plays now that we should be looking at.
I always thought his strength was cutting inside from the wing and either passing from there or having a shot, a bit like Downing in full flow.
Playing on the left, he frequently dragged defenders out of position which benefited Gabby and Carew no end.
I honestly don't think he's the most effective partner for Bent, I think Heskey would form a better partnership.
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I don't think Ash is much of a passer at all. His crossing flits between dodgy and brilliant. 3 years ago his crossing was exceptional, so I don't get why his delivery has become so erratic of late.
He just lacks the vision and cuteness to pick out the telling passes in the final third. I don't think he's clever enough for the 2nd striker role. In fact I struggle to remember a really standout game he's had playing there. Ironically when he played there for England, he looked far better, so perhaps it's not entirely his own fault that his form is very patchy.
For me, sell him, and play the best formation that suits our best 11, with players playing in their best positions. Clearly, Ash, Downing and Albrighton in the same side doesn't work. Right now, given the choice of which two to play, I'd go for Stewie and Mark. They've been the form players this season.
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Ash wins a lot of free kicks in or around the box.
That will be worth a lot of goals to ManUre as Ash won't be taking the resulting free kick
Ye totally agree
Have you been on the Mead?
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Albrighton should take any set piece that's wide and Downing any that are central or direct.
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Ash wins a lot of free kicks in or around the box.
That will be worth a lot of goals to ManUre as Ash won't be taking the resulting free kick
Ye totally agree
Have you been on the Mead?
Verily.
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I don't think Ash is much of a passer at all. His crossing flits between dodgy and brilliant. 3 years ago his crossing was exceptional, so I don't get why his delivery has become so erratic of late.
He just lacks the vision and cuteness to pick out the telling passes in the final third. I don't think he's clever enough for the 2nd striker role. In fact I struggle to remember a really standout game he's had playing there. Ironically when he played there for England, he looked far better, so perhaps it's not entirely his own fault that his form is very patchy.
For me, sell him, and play the best formation that suits our best 11, with players playing in their best positions. Clearly, Ash, Downing and Albrighton in the same side doesn't work. Right now, given the choice of which two to play, I'd go for Stewie and Mark. They've been the form players this season.
Tom, I really don't think you have been watching closely enough. He's always had the vision now with he signing of Bent he has a player making the runs to match it. He must have put him through 4 times in the Bolton game alone.
He's directly involved in such a high percentage of our goals that I'm slightly flabbergasted that people can't see it.
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I don't think Ash is much of a passer at all. His crossing flits between dodgy and brilliant. 3 years ago his crossing was exceptional, so I don't get why his delivery has become so erratic of late.
He just lacks the vision and cuteness to pick out the telling passes in the final third. I don't think he's clever enough for the 2nd striker role. In fact I struggle to remember a really standout game he's had playing there. Ironically when he played there for England, he looked far better, so perhaps it's not entirely his own fault that his form is very patchy.
For me, sell him, and play the best formation that suits our best 11, with players playing in their best positions. Clearly, Ash, Downing and Albrighton in the same side doesn't work. Right now, given the choice of which two to play, I'd go for Stewie and Mark. They've been the form players this season.
Tom, I really don't think you have been watching closely enough. He's always had the vision now with he signing of Bent he has a player making the runs to match it. He must have put him through 4 times in the Bolton game alone.
He's directly involved in such a high percentage of our goals that I'm slightly flabbergasted that people can't see it.
Don't use the word 'flabbergasted' Chris, you wouldn't use that in real life, methinks.
I still say he's more productive on the wings.
Anybody got stats for assists and goals in the last 3 seasons?
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I'm not quite sure that AYoung has the quality in the pass though Chris.
Against Fulham , and indeed Bolton , and every game since Bent has got here, there have not been that many quality passes that put him through, not needing to take a touch and score.I was an advocate of ASh in that role, but i'm not sure he has the quality to play there.He might be as good as we get, but maybe the time to sell, take a gamble on a good and upandcoming youngster a la Taaabaret etc, may be the time.
An example of what i mean was aginst Bolton, Bent had made a move and made an extra yard on Wheater, a good passer would have put him through on goal.He had to wait as the weight of the pass was not good enough, and Wheater got back.To get the best out of Young we need better service than AYoung can provide.
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Actually I used flabbergasted only the other day to a woman at work, so ner, ner, ner, ner, ner.
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Life is a Taaabaret my friends, life is a Taaaaaaabaret!
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Actually I used flabbergasted only the other day to a woman at work, so ner, ner, ner, ner, ner.
WOMAN 'Are you here to clean the bins out.'
CHRIS 'I'm a manager here!'
WOMAN 'I'm flabbergasted!'
CHRIS 'Why would you be flabbergasted? I multi task'
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An example of what i mean was aginst Bolton
He put him through one on onei n the first few minutes only for Bent to get his feet tangled up and fuck it up.
To my mind he's our best player and his current role keeps him involved in the game more and makes us a more effective attacking force. If we gad a better option then I'd say put him back on the wing but we don't. Although in Downing and Albrighton we do have players to play the wide role effectively.
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It's his first season in this position and that's during a time when we've struggled. All things considered he's done OK, but not as good as when he played wide.
Whether or not he'd get better there next season when we're (hopefully) playing better I don't know, but it's unfortunately probably quite accademic anyway.
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Don't use the word 'flabbergasted' Chris, you wouldn't use that in real life, methinks.
I still say he's more productive on the wings.
Egad sir, by my troth I see what you did there you slippery jackanapes.
On the substantive issue, I agree with Smudger with regards to this one.
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As he's fucking off, I can see no reason to carry on pandering to him by having him play behind Bent.
Stick him on the wing where he can cause most damage, get Heskey up front with Bent.
I don't understand where this idea that picking him to play the support striker role is pandering to him. The manager has tried him in both positions and, quite rightly, realised that he's more effective in the middle.
I disagree, the manager has tried Gabby in both positions, realised he is less effective on the wing, yet, kept him there because he prefers to pander to AY.
Playing 2 players out of position to keep one happy, you may not see as pandering, but in my opinion this has hampered the progress of Gabby. By giving in to a player who will be off in the summer, against a player who has just committed himself to the club for 5 years sends out the wrong signals, again.
This as well as giving him the captains armband, and letting him take the penalties, seems like pandering to me. Seeing as he missed the last one, who will take our next penalty?
Can't see SAF liking the petulance of AY, but he would certainly win a lot of free kicks and penalties at OT.
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You don't think Ferguson would like Ashley's penchant for complaining to the ref? That'll probably convince Ferguson to sign him...
Seriously, this 'petulance' of Young's is overstated - his attitude is, I think, pretty solid. By all accounts he's a lively, positive character in the dressing room and he doesn't shirk his work on the pitch; his workrate is fantastic, especially for a forward player. His appearance record is superb. He likes the odd appeal to the officials but really, let's not make out he's a problem player. If he is running down his contract, looking for a summer move, then he's hardly in cruise control, simply earning his money and biding his time. He actually looks like one of the few who really wants us to win games, and goes about trying to do that.
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Playing 2 players out of position to keep one happy, you may not see as pandering, but in my opinion this has hampered the progress of Gabby. By giving in to a player who will be off in the summer,
Or, and I know this going to sound mad, perhaps the manager really does think it his best position. Sorry for throwing such off the wall ideas into the discussion but i've been shopping and it has sent me a bit crazy.
It's quite interesting to see how much everyone is indoctrinated into 4-4-2. I can't see us going back to it any time soon so we might as well stop thinking of players being " out of position" and start realising that they are going to need more than one string to their bow.
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Actually I used flabbergasted only the other day to a woman at work, so ner, ner, ner, ner, ner.
WOMAN 'Are you here to clean the bins out.'
CHRIS 'I'm a manager here!'
WOMAN 'I'm flabbergasted!'
CHRIS 'Why would you be flabbergasted? I multi task'
That was the time before, this one was when I found out our big boss isn't going to have a job under the cuts.
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I'm shocked.
All the best Ash. Not quite sure if you are good enough to perform at the very highest level especially on the last two seasons form but you've been a decent servant to the club for the past few years.
We'll probably be a better side for not having to accommodate him in the hole as we can either improve our defence by picking another midfielder or score more goals by selecting someone who can get more goals there.
Have they changed the Premier League balls recently? That might explain the free kicks.
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I've got to be honest, I'm going to absolutely despite the little b@stard once he's playing for someone else. I find it very difficult to like him in a Villa shirt with all his whinging, diving, and generally dickish behaviour.
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I think he's nailed on for either ManUre or Citeh.
Wouldn't mind Jimmy back in exchange.
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Wouldn't mind Jimmy back in exchange.
Not. Going. To. Happen.
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Wouldn't mind Jimmy back in exchange.
Not. Going. To. Happen.
Not while he's on over £100k per week
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Nothing to do with the money. Why would he leave a side that is looking to win the title 9not this year) and the CL, for one that is rebuilding from the wrong end of the table?
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Nothing to do with the money.
Do not fool yourself. It's always about money
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Nothing to do with the money.
Do not fool yourself. It's always about money
By that logic if Crewe Alex were to offer him an extra £30k per week he'd move to them. Money is an issue, obviously, but it is not the only one.
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Nothing to do with the money.
Do not fool yourself. It's always about money
By that logic if Crewe Alex were to offer him an extra £30k per week he'd move to them. Money is an issue, obviously, but it is not the only one.
Poor example, If Crewe had been taken over by the World's Richest family yes, but they haven't.
If they had, they'd be a force in football
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No chance of milner leaving city to come here , he's on great wages and the verge of the champions league- he's had plenty of games but knew that city would rotate anyway , from his comments he's loving life there and good luck to him.
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I don't think it'll be the end of the World if he goes. He hasn't been in top form for a year or two,hasnt even been played in his best position for a season.
If GH can pull a No.10 type player out of the hat,someone who's better in that position than Ash,we should be ok.
I'd still take a look at someone like Sinclair at Swansea as a cheaper buy,as well as a more experienced player who can play Bent.
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Based on our balance sheet, we could do with the £15m cheque I'd guess
Maybe, RL will give GH some of that money then in the summer ??
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Ash has always given his all and been a good player for us , I wish him well and don't begrudge him his move if he goes. I think Milner was a bigger loss than ash will be and have seen many top players come and go , Gray, platt, and yorke to name just 3 - we will go onwards without ash and maybe albrighton will emerge a better player in the long run anyway.
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Nothing to do with the money.
Do not fool yourself. It's always about money
By that logic if Crewe Alex were to offer him an extra £30k per week he'd move to them. Money is an issue, obviously, but it is not the only one.
Poor example, If Crewe had been taken over by the World's Richest family yes, but they haven't.
If they had, they'd be a force in football
But if they were a force in football it wouldn't all be about the money, would it?
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Money & Success are intrinsicly linked sadly nowadays.
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Money & Success are intrinsicly linked sadly nowadays.
Obviously, but that's a different argument to the one you were trying to make a few minutes ago.
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extra 2 million added!
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he still can't fucking take corners mind. What on earth happened there? He used to be brilliant.
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And he's now doing that twattish 'Pointing to his name' thing when he scores for England as well as the Villa.
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And he's now doing that twattish 'Pointing to his name' thing when he scores for England as well as the Villa.
He has been doing that for quite a while to be fair. I don't read anything into it.
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And he's now doing that twattish 'Pointing to his name' thing when he scores for England as well as the Villa.
He has been doing that for quite a while to be fair. I don't read anything into it.
I do. I see the actions of someone who's far too arrogant. An 'It's all about me' attitude, rather than appreciating that in yesterday's example he wouldn't have even had the chance if it wasn't for Baines' brilliant knock down, or Milner's chip in to Baines before that.
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It's just the way plenty of footballers are, whatever we may think of it.
At the end of the day, he's a really good footballer who has never put less than a bloody good shift in for Villa, and who has sprinkled that with the occasional moments of magic. Yes, we 'gave him his chance', and he has taken it and then some. He hasn't complained, bitched about the club or manager. I'd say he's done enough to earn a shot at the very top level, and enough for us not to be too bitter about it.
It's no surprise at all that Man Utd are interested, and especially at something of a knockdown price; they'll be keen to know, as I am if I'm honest about it, if he really does have another level in him.
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It's just the way plenty of footballers are, whatever we may think of it.
At the end of the day, he's a really good footballer who has never put less than a bloody good shift in for Villa, and who has sprinkled that with the occasional moments of magic. Yes, we 'gave him his chance', and he has taken it and then some. He hasn't complained, bitched about the club or manager. I'd say he's done enough to earn a shot at the very top level, and enough for us not to be too bitter about it.
It's no surprise at all that Man Utd are interested, and especially at something of a knockdown price; they'll be keen to know, as I am if I'm honest about it, if he really does have another level in him.
Agree entirely. Possibly the most naturally talented player we've had at villa for ten years imho.
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I agree that he's been a good servant to the club and that he's quality, and i also agree that he looks a twat when he does that celebration, and that he's been doing that twattish thing for a while. It's a shame that we haven't done / aren't doing more as a club to keep the twat, as i would happily have virtually a team full of twats if it mean't winning the league. Man Utd have had bucket loads of twats over the past 20 years, so he'll fit right in.