Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on February 07, 2011, 07:59:37 AM
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As an ex keeper myself i always watch with interest how they play and it has become evident over the last few seasons that all prem keepers are very limited in commanding their boxes in the air.
Following on from Brads pathetic attempt at coming for a cross on Sat i was wondering if it is actually being coached out of them.
As a kid i was coached by the Albion keeper coach at the time and he always installed into me the following basic rules of the 6 yard box
1/ It is your domain - attacker / defender / ref - nothing gets in your way to collect the ball
2/ Collect the cross at the highest point
3/ a 6ft keeper with arms at full stretch - it is impossible for a striker to head above you (even that lampost freak at the Blues could not reach higher than a keeper with arms aloft)
4/ Anticipate the flight and go for the ball - never take your eyes off it
The last keepers i know of that was commanding in the air was David James and recently Pepe Reina - yet even Reina has started to hog the line
The only thing i can think of is the changes to the ball over recent seasons make the deliveries too unpredictable and once a keeper is off the line if they do not collect then the goal is exposed
Either way its a shame as one of the greatest feelings as a keeper was to come out and take the ball off the CF's head - as good a save as tipping one over. It also gives the defense so much confidence that if it is in the 6yeard box or even the space between the line and the pen spot if they know in the air then it is the keepers.
Our lot, as Brad is particulary poor at this often are having to make headed clearances from inside the 6 yard box and it conjests the area and makes any touch a potential goal threat
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I also think that goalkeepers are far too protected these days. They don't seem to be considered as any other player would in a 50/50 challenge. Everything is in their favour. Which I hate.
Makes it even harder to understand why so many of them stick to their lines.
Sorry to take it off on a slight tangent.
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I think you are absolutely correct Hookey. Goalkeepers lived in the comfort zone for years as referees adopted continental practice of not allowing any physical challenge to the keeper.
That has now all gone as the referees persistently do nothing but finger wag at what is virtually rugby going on in the six yard box at set pieces.
We need to get back to basics where a keeper has to be either a great big bugger or at the very least perform like a great big bugger. In my experience the ones who have the worst tendencies to stick on their lines (see Disease, Budgie's) are the titchy ones.
Nigel Sims would not have let in that second goal of Fulham's. His twenty stone would have hit all the players between him and the ball, friend or foe. He would have wiped them out. Until the referees take control of all the blocking and wrestling at set pieces the goalkeepers have to take he law into their own hands.
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Freidel's mistake on saturday was coming for a ball that he couldn't get to. There were too many men in the way and the delivery was too good. I'm not sure that's down to coaching.
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Nigel Sims would not have let in that second goal of Fulham's. His twenty stone would have hit all the players between him and the ball, friend or foe. He would have wiped them out. Until the referees take control of all the blocking and wrestling at set pieces the goalkeepers have to take he law into their own hands.
Ah, memories, I remember the late Bobby Smith of the Spurs double team, a pretty big lump - being shoulder charged by Sims and they had to come on with a spade to dig Smith out of the pitch. Spurs still won mind -
Given the protection they get from officials I do think it is surprising that so many keepers today don't just come out and take out everything in the way, friend and foe alike. Amazed to see Cech seemingly afraid to get involved for Liverpool's goal on Sunday. That's why I like Hart, and before him James, both seem happy to come and claim the ball and accept any knocks that come their way.
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You have hit the nail on the top part Steven. They have to be brave. Dish it out and take it. That is what I mean by behaving like a big bugger. Kevin Poole is minute but he has the heart of a lion. Burridge had the build of a cruiserweight and the motivation of a turnip.
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I suspect some of the problems these days are to do with the aerodynamics of the beach ball they play with. In Sims' day the leather case ball would travel in a predictable path which made coming for a cross less chancey. The way the modern thing wobbles around it's a bit more difficult to predict - hence we're seeing far more punching rather than catching.
Also a case ball was easier to keep hold of when hit straight at you because of its weight and momentum. Again, the light plastic balls are all over the place.
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aaahhhh remember the leather "caser"
Kick it two yards when it was wet
head it and you had concussion
get hit with it at point blank range and have "mitre" imprinted on your leg
happy days....
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Neither friedal or guzan command the area that well and both look dodgy on crosses, friedal has looked shaky many times in that area and needs to command the 6 yard box better, many times he stays on his line when the cross is in 6 yard box and we pay the price , this time he came out and misjudged it, I hope the new keeper is more commanding in the air.
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I was allways told when you come for a ball you better make it.
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Neither friedal or guzan command the area that well and both look dodgy on crosses, friedal has looked shaky many times in that area and needs to command the 6 yard box better, many times he stays on his line when the cross is in 6 yard box and we pay the price , this time he came out and misjudged it, I hope the new keeper is more commanding in the air.
I lost count of the number of goals we conceeded last season when a ball was whipped in low on the edge of the 6 yard box and Brad was on his line.
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Sounds about right.
In terms of saves, I think Premier League goalies are pretty much as good as each other.
The real difference in quality is the ability to catch a ball when under pressure.
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What about the first goal, surely it's brighter to parry it out wide rather than right back into the six yard box where Johnson was lurking?!
Always been a problem that for Friedel, parrying it right back into the area instead of out wide.
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The quality of Fulhams delivery was superb on Saturday, oh for someone in a Villa shirt able to do that as regularly.
Friedel made an error of judgement, but before you replace him remember he also kept us in it with several decent stops, both against Fulham and Utd.
Being the last man in defence he's an easy target, and watching the way Robinson diverted shots away from the danger area its obvious to see why he takes the blame but, he's still one of the best around and not ideal scapegoat material for me.
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Friedal is past his best now malcolm and will only go downwards from here , he has been a good signing but doesn't warrant a new contract in my opinion at the age of 40. On the subject of crossing delivery I must admit I was hugely impressed by larsson when he ce on for blues yesterday.
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This was not a dig at big Brad - although he was awful for both goals on sat
It was the fact that hardly any keepers come and claim crosses nowadays as they all seem to hold the goal line - this must be something being coached into them recently
Sorenson used to be quite commanding in the air (just shit at his near post) but none of them seem to be commanding their areas anymore
just thought it was strange and causes too much pressure on the defenders - especially at set pieces
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Also our goalkeeper coach Rafa Gonzales come from Spain.
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The ball is mentioned in a lot of threads, this one, the Ashley Young free kick one or any World Cup thread. Why do they mess about with the damn ball in the first place. Its a fecking ball, it's round and it can bounce, bloody idiots.
Sorry to change the subject slightly but it could be the reason behind some of the keepers staying put.
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I too played in goal for about 30 years and received some professional coaching and I totally agree with the 4 original points of this post.
There have been a handful of goals conceded this season that could and should have been avoided by positive goalkeeping.
If the keeper goes for it agressively he will also get the benefit of the doubt on fouls commited against him (even though it is often the other way around).
I also spend half the game looking at goalkeepers and tend to judge a save by asking myself 'what would you have said had he not saved it'.
In addition, having recently tried out a pair of these new fangled gloves, I don't how keepers drop the ball at all.
I think we are coaching shot stoppers, not goalkeepers.
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The quality of Fulhams delivery was superb on Saturday, oh for someone in a Villa shirt able to do that as regularly.
We have he is called Barry Bannan!