Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on January 19, 2011, 04:23:58 PM
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Why is it taking so bloody long
54 caps for his country - so recognised international
Being a resident in France for 4+ years
Played in Champs league
Bet if it was Arse / Chelski / ManU it would be sorted in hours ::)
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Over on VT they are reporting it will be sorted tomorrow !!!
I think the Bent signing is absolutely brilliant for Makoun as all the focus and attention will be on Bent...JM can just get on with his game.
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he wont play saturday due to this i fear
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Even with Jacqui Smith in the Home Office it always seemed to take ages. Remember when we were competing with Arsenal it seemed to take about 5 minutes to make Arshavin available to play!
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Perhaps we could ring Jacqui up and get her to speed thing up as she might know the relevant person to get it done as she is a Villa fan.
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I hope they get the paperwork done asap so he can play hopefully against Man City.
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I think Pelty said he's doubtful for Saturday, hopefuly I'm wrong though.
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Perhaps we could ring Jacqui up and get her to speed thing up as she might know the relevant person to get it done as she is a Villa fan.
Sod her! We've got the current prime minister and future king of England in our pockets. We can have him British citizenship and an England cap by midnight.
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I hope they get the paperwork done asap so he can play hopefully against Man City.
Cant see that happening as if you dont have a work permit I dont think you can be in the country so he wont have trained with the team, sorted out accomodation,etc.......I also think that the work permit conditions include that he has to be a current international and played a percentage of the country's last few games
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I hope they get the paperwork done asap so he can play hopefully against Man City.
Cant see that happening as if you dont have a work permit I dont think you can be in the country so he wont have trained with the team, sorted out accomodation,etc.......
His special Pringle jumper was certainly in the country when he signed. Maybe that's a condition of the Home Office.
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You can visit a country without a working visa.
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Perhaps we could ring Jacqui up and get her to speed thing up as she might know the relevant person to get it done as she is a Villa fan.
Sod her! We've got the current prime minister and future king of England in our pockets. We can have him British citizenship and an England cap by midnight.
I forgot that :) so who ever is not doing work permit application quick enough could be encouraged to take priority for Aston Villa over any other things.
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It takes time and it's not because da man is black...honestly
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A VT poster also mentioned the team of solicitors Villa hired re not very competent if the visa takes longer than a week.
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A VT poster also mentioned the team of solicitors Villa hired re not very competent if the visa takes longer than a week.
Yes, because a random bloke on the internet is the fount of all Visa knowledge.
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it would have been great, home debuts for walker makoun and bent on saturday, just cant see it happening
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Maybe weve just forgot how to get a work permit sorted its not like we have a lot of practise is it!
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A VT poster also mentioned the team of solicitors Villa hired re not very competent if the visa takes longer than a week.
For everything else, there's Mastercard.
Yes, because a random bloke on the internet is the fount of all Visa knowledge.
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If it was Arsenal and the paperwork wouldnt be sorted until next Monday , he would still be playing Saturday...
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Is he here training at all, or was he shipped straight back ???
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Is he here training at all, or was he shipped straight back ???
Very good question - not seen any pics of him training on any villa site - if he was then you would think the official site would show it
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Is he here training at all, or was he shipped straight back ???
Very good question - not seen any pics of him training on any villa site - if he was then you would think the official site would show it
I think he had to go back until the permit was sorted. Technically he cant train with us as that counts as working over here which he cannot do yet. I very much doubt he'll play tomorrow. He may get paraded but he wont play.
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Agreed I will say I guarantee he won't play tomorrow- especially as we don't have a match!
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A VT poster also mentioned the team of solicitors Villa hired re not very competent if the visa takes longer than a week.
Yes, because a random bloke on the internet is the fount of all Visa knowledge.
The guy was joking, I heard that he is a master card !!
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I may have to bow to other's more advanced knowledge of the work permit system but wasn't Omar Cummings training with us without the aid of a work permit?
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It's been said before. But I reckon Steve Stride would have sorted it out.
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I may have to bow to other's more advanced knowledge of the work permit system but wasn't Omar Cummings training with us without the aid of a work permit?
"Yes, because a random bloke on the internet is the fount of all Visa knowledge."
*whistly thingy*
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Still no squad number for Makoun either,same for Cummings which has all gone quiet.
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Is he here training at all, or was he shipped straight back ???
Shipped back and told to sort his wardrobe out after the pringle incident
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Still no squad number for Makoun either,same for Cummings which has all gone quiet.
Cummings has gone back to the US as he couldn't secure a work permit.
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That's a shame after Houllier said he was getting better and better in training.
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Perhaps we could ring Jacqui up and get her to speed thing up as she might know the relevant person to get it done as she is a Villa fan.
Which house would she be at...........................
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You'll struggle to get an answer on the phone, she'll be out and her husband will have his hands full.
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According to Kendrick of Twitter this wont be done in time for Man City.
How the f**k has it taken this long? It doesn't make sense, I thought he ticks every box that is needed to get a permit.
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He's still in France and can't train with us, Matt Kendrick says he should be OK for Wigan.
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One question why do he need a work permit as he done 10 seasons in French football and is a french Citizen and I though EEC had open door policy for moving jobs/country for EEC members.
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The EEC disappeared in 1993. ;-)
As for having French nationality, I'm just guessing but it might have something to do with the fact that he has to use his Cameroon passport to go and play for Cameroon.... BUT, if he pulls that out at BHX he is then technically non EU and needs a work permit. And he can't really go into Cameroon on a French passport because he would be French and couldn't play for an African international team. He would need to have the correct in and out visa stamps and so on. It's all a bit Catch 22-ish (or it might be total bollocks that I have simply inferred because I have a vivid imagination). who knows?
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One question why do he need a work permit as he done 10 seasons in French football and is a french Citizen and I though EEC had open door policy for moving jobs/country for EEC members.
Are you sure he's a French citizen? I can't find it written about him anywhere.
Surely, if he had French citizenship, then there would be no need to secure a work permit.
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One question why do he need a work permit as he done 10 seasons in French football and is a french Citizen and I though EEC had open door policy for moving jobs/country for EEC members.
Are you sure he's a French citizen? I can't find it written about him anywhere.
Surely, if he had French citizenship, then there would be no need to secure a work permit.
Tell the Visa Office he wants to sign for Chelsea then it will be through in minutes. They have a lot of Africans and I don't recall them having to wait long for a permit.
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Yea, if he has French citizenship he would have a French passport.
I hope he can play for us against Wigan. We'll really need him.
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TimothyAbraham
GH confirmed the paperwork has been completed for Jean Makoun who linked up with the Villa squad today.
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Does that mean he's available for tomorrow?
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I hope he can play for us against Wigan. We'll really need him.
Not according to Football Guru, Ian Holloway, who says if he's better than Charlie Adam he'll 'pack it all in'.
Please God, pleeeease let him be miles better than Charlie Adam.
Err...unless we sign him of course...
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I really wish Holloway would fall off the end of cliff.
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Yea, if he has French citizenship he would have a French passport.
Bing! Bong! False! <PEDANTRY>If he has French NATIONALITY, he would have the right to BUY a French passport. He might not have done so.</PEDANTRY>
I am bored.
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I really wish Holloway would fall off the end of cliff.
What's he doing on Cliff's end?
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OS saying got his permit but not available til Wigan.Will be presented at VP prior to KO on Sat
Apparently he is eligible to play Sat but GH thinks too early
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it actually says he is, but ged thinks its to soon, great news either way
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He needs a week to train with team mates etc. Good news though ..........
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More PEDANt alert...He wouldn't need a passport as EU nationals can use ID cards to travel also.
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I really wish Holloway would fall off the end of cliff.
What's he doing on Cliff's end?
Hanging on.
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OS saying got his permit but not available til Wigan.Will be presented at VP prior to KO on Sat
Apparently he is legible to play Sat but GH thinks too early
Does he know the kick-off's not at 3?
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OS saying got his permit but not available til Wigan.Will be presented at VP prior to KO on Sat
Apparently he is legible to play Sat but GH thinks too early
Does he know the kick-off's not at 3?
legit lol. just had visions of ged and jean standing on the touch line at 15:00 and ged saying i swear its not normally this empty in here lol
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I really wish Holloway would fall off the end of cliff.
What's he doing on Cliff's end?
His famous Una Stubbs impression.
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More PEDANt alert...He wouldn't need a passport as EU nationals can use ID cards to travel also.
Yes, but if he were a MINOR in France, he would need his parents' written permission (yes, both of them) to leave the country on an ID card. However, if the aforesaid theoretical minor had a passport then he could say bollocks to mom and dad and could go without written permission.
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OS saying got his permit but not available til Wigan.Will be presented at VP prior to KO on Sat
Apparently he is legible to play Sat but GH thinks too early
Does he know the kick-off's not at 3?
legit lol. just had visions of ged and jean standing on the touch line at 15:00 and ged saying i swear its not normally this empty in here lol
haha
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Did somebody just write 'lol'? Twice?
That should lead to you being stripped of your nationality and deported.
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im bilingual, i speak 2 languages very poorly haha
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Did somebody just write 'lol'? Twice?
That should lead to you being stripped of your nationality and deported.
Is that what happened to you?
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Is that what happened to you?
No, I was a hostage in the Ginola transfer. They were to let me return to Brum if Villa kept the lazy fucker for at least five years. Never forgiven Gregory for putting a spanner in the works. There's only so much foreign muck you can eat.
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Couldn't you have snuck back in Makoun's luggage?
I've landed at Perpingnan in the past. The airport is something to behold.
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Did somebody just write 'lol'? Twice?
That should lead to you being stripped of your nationality and deported.
Would 'rahv' be better?
rire à haute voix (plus I liked the hv bit)
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Good news, at least JM can start training with the team now, Wigan need a good spanking so let's get behind the team, UTV!
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Would 'rahv' be better?
rire à haute voix (plus I liked the hv bit)
Well, the kidZ in France write 'mdr' = mort(e) de rire...
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Couldn't you have snuck back in Makoun's luggage?
I've landed at Perpingnan in the past. The airport is something to behold.
Run by the Perpignan Chamber of Commerce (bunch of incompetent tossers). Girona was smaller and look at it now.
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Would 'rahv' be better?
rire à haute voix (plus I liked the hv bit)
Well, the kidZ in France write 'mdr' = mort(e) de rire...
We as I'm not down with the kidZ or in France I'm confused, perhaps rahv would be better for me.
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When is Makoun likely to play his debut ?
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More PEDANt alert...He wouldn't need a passport as EU nationals can use ID cards to travel also.
The UK, Ireland and Denmark opted out.
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More PEDANt alert...He wouldn't need a passport as EU nationals can use ID cards to travel also.
The UK, Ireland and Denmark opted out.
Opted out on us being able to travel with ID cards but other EU nationals can travel here with them.
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I see on Pravda that Makoun has been given number 17. Isn't that Salifou's number or did I blink and miss Salifou being sold?
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There were rumours on WM a week or so ago that Walsall were lining up a loan for a Villa midfielder on the fringes of our first team. I assumed Osbourne, but it wouldn't be impossible to suggest Salifou could go to get some game time under his belt.
Sparta Prague seems such a distant memory. He played like a world beater.
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Apparently Salifou gave his shirt up because he realised the significance to Makoun. Nice touch. Debut against Wigan, be good to see how he performs.
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Apparently he is available for a loan deal.
Don't know how we'll cope without him to be honest. I mean when we had all those injuries to our midfielders he played a stormer. Best cuppa tea at Bodymoor Heath I hear.
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Jean Makoun Makoun
He'll break a leg or two
He's the next Salifou
Jean Makoun Makoun
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Jean Makoun Makoun
He's better than Salifou
His middle name is two
Jean Makoun Makoun
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In the squad for tomorrow's game (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9369947.stm), so presumably sorted.
If he doesn't speak any (or very limited) English, would prefer him to be on the bench for now and if we've got things sewn up with 15 / 10 / 5 minutes to go, give him a run-out then.
Saturday's result has given us a little breathing space and with an FA Cup game coming up, I spy the perfect opportunity for him to start. The Wigan game as things stand is still a potential "relegation six-pointer" and not the time to throw him in in my opinion.
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Having just watched the Lion King I was wondering if somebody a bit more creative than me could make a song up for Jean II out of the Hakoun Amotada jingle?
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I can't wait to see Makoun playing, I think he's an exceptional player.
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If he doesn't speak any (or very limited) English...
They let Chris Waddle play at Marseille before he learnt French. He managed.
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He speaks the language of football.
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His English is probably better than Gabbys
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I thought a song to the tune of Doctorin the Tardis by The Timelords.
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Thought he did alright tonight.
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Thought he did alright tonight.
Agreed, tidy, made no mistakes. Wigan away is probably a bit of a culture shock for him today. Few more games under his belt and I think he'll be fine.
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Nice first game for JM, it should take half a dozen games for him to get match fit but today was great for his confidence.
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Wigan away is probably a bit of a culture shock for him today.
He has played in many a cold, empty stadium in small towns up north in France.
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Let's also not forget that he wasn't a guaranteed first-teamer for Lyon. From what I heard he looked sharp in possession but the pace of the game passed him by after a while. Let's face it, there have been worse debuts so the lad did okay.
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Promising signs from Jean II.
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i thought we looked stronger when he was on the pitch....
you can definately see very promising signs from him...
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I'm not going to judge Jondermacooooon until nearer the end of the season or better yet, next season.
Still, for his first game for Villa and in the Premier League, not bad.
The next few months can be spent getting used to blighty and playing in our team, then he can really figure next season when we once more push for the top 4.
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This is the signing I've looked most forward to seeing of our recent purchases. Feel he's going to have to play a crucial role for us, more games into him is of course a good thing.
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If he doesn't speak any (or very limited) English...
They let Chris Waddle play at Marseille before he learnt French. He managed.
The Waddler struggles to communicate in English, so they had nothing to lose.
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I'm not going to judge Jondermacooooon until nearer the end of the season or better yet, next season.
Still, for his first game for Villa and in the Premier League, not bad.
The next few months can be spent getting used to blighty and playing in our team, then he can really figure next season when we once more push for the top 4.
On last nights performance, he's settled in very nicely, by far our best player on the pitch. A very intelligent player, excellent vision and passing, let's the ball do the work for him. If he can keep up that standard we'll have signed a real gem. I was very impressed.
If he has a fault it's he doesn't run with the ball but I guess if he did, we'd have a world class player on our books. Not wishing to take anything away from him, as he was head and shoulders above anybody else last night, including the Man Utd midfield.
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Agree, Mark, I also think as he settles into the side and becomes more confident we'll see even more from him.
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Not bad for a Frenchman with no Premier League experience. :)
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He really was class last night. Good in possession even under pressure, and he knew where he was going to pass the ball. He showed some combative spirit too. I think he'll be a tremendous asset for us in the future, and he completely outperformed Petrov last night (niot hard). It will be great to see him in a midfield three with Bradley and another exciting creative midfielder, like Bannan or Delph.
Excellent buy M Houllier.
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He played well last night, I just don't see him as the replacement for NRC, as he's clearly a very good passer of the ball but didn't appear to want to get stuck in much. If anything he did what Petrov does, but a lot better, so until Bradley is up to speed I'd go with Makoun and NRC or Delph for the upcoming games, as Makoun and Petrov doesn't offer a lot of protection.
It's maybe a lazy comparison, but in his style of play he reminded me exactly of Berson, who I think would have had been good for us if he'd have settled in properly.
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He really was class last night. Good in possession even under pressure, and he knew where he was going to pass the ball. He showed some combative spirit too. I think he'll be a tremendous asset for us in the future, and he completely outperformed Petrov last night (niot hard). It will be great to see him in a midfield three with Bradley and another exciting creative midfielder, like Bannan or Delph.
Excellent buy M Houllier.
Agree totally
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Not bad for a Frenchman with no Premier League experience. :)
Of even a Cameroonian.
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Not bad for a Frenchman with no Premier League experience. :)
Of even a Cameroonian.
I know where he's from. I'm taking the piss out of somebody.
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Just looked at the stats on the Guardian site for last night's match. Makoun attempted 94 passes, and completed 85 of them, which is fantastic. A good mix of short and long range stuff as well. Petrov completed 42 out of 45. Here's the rub though, they won 5 tackles between them all night, which sort of backs up what I said above.
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Not bad for a Frenchman with no Premier League experience. :)
Of even a Cameroonian.
With a name like MacOon he has to be Scottish.
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Makouns passing last night
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc207/paulizzyrollins/MAKOUN.jpg)
IMpressive
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Thats excellent Paul can i ask where you got those stats from?
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Mrfuse.
Here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards
Click 'create chalkboard'. Then chose the season, game, team & player etc.
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Thanks mate thats an excellent tool
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That's a quality website, I'm going to have some fun with that.
Ciaran Clark only attempted 2 tackles last night and won 1 of them.
Bit yer legs Downing won all 3 of his tackles.
Makoun's stats for passing look impressive for an away team at Old Trafford but then they did sit off us and let us have the ball for long periods.
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It's maybe a lazy comparison, but in his style of play he reminded me exactly of Berson, who I think would have had been good for us if he'd have settled in properly.
That's exactly who I thought of when watching him play, neat and tidy passing, good control, good vision. I actually liked what I saw of Berson and was disappointed the move didn't work out.
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great passing there... and some forward passing in there too!
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Dont mean to go on, but look at Petrov's Crabograph. (sorry, I'm not signing up that site to show it)
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Putting aside the fact that we won there last season, this is an interesting comparison.
2009-10 Man United (away) - total passes 352, 223 successful
20010-11 Man United (away) - total passes 565, 452 successful
You can at least see we're trying to change the way we play, although I concede that having scored so early on, there's an element of United being prepared to let us pass the ball around.
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Putting aside the fact that we won there last season, this is an interesting comparison.
2009-10 Man United (away) - total passes 352, 223 successful
20010-11 Man United (away) - total passes 565, 452 successful
You can at least see we're trying to change the way we play, although I concede that having scored so early on, there's an element of United being prepared to let us pass the ball around.
Without getting too much of a statto, the difference in the percentage of succesful passes between the years is quite telling.
I had a look at last years Liverpool away game as I remember NRC having a stormer but he only made 4 tackles and only won 2 of those, so it does show you can't make the stats suit your argument all the time.
If they included how much ground each player covered that would be interesting, to me anyway.
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The 4-5-1 thing just isn't working though is it? It's great that the number of passes is going up, and Makoun played a high percentage of those, but it's not leading to much in the way of scoring chances. I think playing 4-4-2 with Bent and Gabby would have given Ferdinand and Vidic much more to cope with, with Ashley Young playing on the wing where he's much more effective.
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The 4-5-1 thing just isn't working though is it? It's great that the number of passes is going up, and Makoun played a high percentage of those, but it's not leading to much in the way of scoring chances. I think playing 4-4-2 with Bent and Gabby would have given Ferdinand and Vidic much more to cope with, with Ashley Young playing on the wing where he's much more effective.
I totally agree. That's not to say there is anything too wrong with what GH is trying to do but against Man U we would have been far more effective in a 4-4-2. Gabby has always caused Vidic problems.
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The 4-5-1 thing just isn't working though is it? It's great that the number of passes is going up, and Makoun played a high percentage of those, but it's not leading to much in the way of scoring chances. I think playing 4-4-2 with Bent and Gabby would have given Ferdinand and Vidic much more to cope with, with Ashley Young playing on the wing where he's much more effective.
We won 3 games with it last week so I don't see how you can just blithely say "it isn't working". The players are getting used to it and we now have a number of options to choose from. The problem with 4-4-2 is always that you get over run in midfield leaving your strikers isolated and left to using long balls to compensate.
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There is also an option to go with a genuine 4-3-3 too. I'd have thrown this at Man Utd in the second half.
...............................Friedel
Walker..........Collins...........Dunne...........Clark
.......Reo Coker.......Makoun......Downing
.........Delfouneso.......Bent......Gabby
Those three up front would be a headache for anybody. So much pace and power.
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The 4-5-1 thing just isn't working though is it? It's great that the number of passes is going up, and Makoun played a high percentage of those, but it's not leading to much in the way of scoring chances. I think playing 4-4-2 with Bent and Gabby would have given Ferdinand and Vidic much more to cope with, with Ashley Young playing on the wing where he's much more effective.
We won 3 games with it last week so I don't see how you can just blithely say "it isn't working". The players are getting used to it and we now have a number of options to choose from. The problem with 4-4-2 is always that you get over run in midfield leaving your strikers isolated and left to using long balls to compensate.
Spot on Chris, although Bren has a point with the idea of 4-4-2 against Man Utd. It's a counter-attacking system which might have worked. However, if we'd conceded that early goal anyway and been playing 4-4-2 we could have been slaughtered trying to attack with insufficient numbers to prevent getting picked off on the breakaway.
Like that team Maz, presumably that midfield would have been NRC sitting as insurance to give Makoun and Downing license to push on?
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Yes. Reo Coker, Makoun and Downing in varying stages of attacking inent.
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If we had played a 4-4-2 Vidic would not of been on the edge of our box to score. He would have had to stay back to keep an eye on one of two forwards .......
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I like this one I've just seen
Jean Makoun Makoun
He comes from the Cameroon
Wears jumpers from Auntie June
Jean Makoun Makoun
(to the song of John Carew)
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If we had played a 4-4-2 Vidic would not of been on the edge of our box to score. He would have had to stay back to keep an eye on one of two forwards .......
I believe that job is given to the full backs - centrebacks, especially those like Vidic, are too precious an asset in dead ball situations around the oppostion penalty area to waste on babysitting duties at the back.
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Makoun has been withdrawn from the Cameroon game tonight.
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Makoun has been withdrawn from the Cameroon game tonight.
He's got to be back for his webchat tomorrow at 1 pm ;)
Just a precaution as slight calf problem. Should be fit for Sat