Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: TimTheVillain on January 06, 2011, 10:02:00 AM
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Stanley Victor was saying last night on TalkSport that MON was still on friendly terms with Randy Lerner.
This is contrary to what we would have believed, but I am sure that Stan is 'in the know' here.
Would YOU have MON back ?
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In a heartbeat, if he and RAL agreed to what needed to be done wage wise and there were no more dummy spits.
You've more chance of Australia winning the 5th Test though. which is zero chance.
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Without question
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Can't see it happening, how could he? I think this is fantasy land.
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No. Couldn't stand the man, his attitude, or his football, and he took our best opportunity to build something for decades and pissed it away on mediocre players. I'd take some of his results right now though.
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Right now Im so pissed off with Houllier I would have Billy McNeill back.
I heard that on TalkSport coming back from the game and my initial reaction was its just popular media trying to get people to react on a phone in. However, they say you should never be surprised by anything in football.
I dont think its a goer at all and I have slagged off MON with the best of them on here since he dropped us in it, and still would.
However, if it was a goer (which as I said I dont think it is for a minute) and if you are saying there is more chance of us getting some wins so we arent relegated then Im hardly going to start ripping up my season ticket in disgust.
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No
because he took the piss
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Not even worth debating.Surely nailed on for Lplop
No
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No, nay, never.
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No chance, he took us as far as he could with three 6th place finishes a cup final and a semi final. We need a new manager to come in make us play great football and really push us up the table.................oh wait..........yeah in a heartbeat
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Yes but it won't happen
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Yes, everyone that wanted him out are looking pretty stupid now.
I still think he was a wanker for leaving us in the lurch and is as much to blame for this mess as Houllier is.
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No, no and thrice no.
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In one word?
No.
I never liked his - so said - style of play, Dunne & Collins that hit the ball clear for the forwards.
Aport from us, all the English teams, included the small teams like Blackpool and Bolton try and play a modern, attractive passing football.
I want to go ahead, not behind.
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Impossible. Remember he dumped us ??
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I suspect that if MON was to return, Faulkner would have to depart first.
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Yes, though he won't.
I do think though that MON is looking at the league this season and thinking that his team could be in the top 5. I don't think he (or anyone for that matter) thought the league would be turning out how it has so far.
However, I believe his reasons for leaving was Man City having obscene amounts of money after he'd spent ages trying to build up a team. After that, I think he just thought what's the point.
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Not in a million years!
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He got us into this mess and is the one person who could get us out of it. But that's all he would do.
I would prefer Jol if we are to bring in a new manager.
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Employ a man who could desert his post at a time that was calculated to do the most harm?
You must be joking.
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I suspect that if MON was to return, Faulkner would have to depart first.
Employ a man who could desert his post at a time that was calculated to do the most harm?
You must be joking.
You mean when it became fully apparent to him that Milner was to be sold and he was told he would be having Ireland?
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No. He deliberately left us in the shit. He can fuck off, selfish cock.
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No, he would come back with even more power than he had before and that is a recipe for financial meltdown.
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I suspect that if MON was to return, Faulkner would have to depart first.
Employ a man who could desert his post at a time that was calculated to do the most harm?
You must be joking.
You mean when it became fully apparent to him that Milner was to be sold and he was told he would be having Ireland?
Your only guessing that was the reason, what the real reason was we mere mortals will only know when the book comes out. He left us in the shit it would be like having your wife back after she told you she was bonking the neighbour on christmas eve.
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Yes, though he won't.
I do think though that MON is looking at the league this season and thinking that his team could be in the top 5. I don't think he (or anyone for that matter) thought the league would be turning out how it has so far.
However, I believe his reasons for leaving was Man City having obscene amounts of money after he'd spent ages trying to build up a team. After that, I think he just thought what's the point.
I share this view.
If Liverpool are re-financed it's the club for him I reckon.
I'm larch lapping a bit here, mainly because we are in need of a motivator big time.
That's what MON is mainly, tactically inept, but clearly a motivator.
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No, I wouldn't want him anywhere near Aston Villa again unless it is as Liverpool manager offering large sums of money for our mediocre players.
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No. He deliberately left us in the shit. He can fuck off, selfish cock.
In fairness we don't now the real story. That's how it looked to most of us at the time but who knows what was going on behind closed doors. Certainly the things are now would suggest there's more to MON walking out than meets the eye.
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Not under any circumstances and if the alternative was relegation, so be it.
I will never forgive him for what he did.
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Hmm interesting question. Although he'd get us out the shit, he won't progress us any further we he was originally with us under his football 'philosophy'. I think it was good that we parted ways with him because under his style we weren't gonna get to exactly where we wanted to but if he decided not to be a knob and think with a new approach, then who knows?
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It shows how desparate we are that we are even considering this !
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NO WAY, we couldn't afford to bank roll his ego.
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Not under any circumstances and if the alternative was relegation, so be it.
I will never forgive him for what he did.
Interesting, did you forgive Ron Saunders?
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don't like the guy but anyone is better than what we have.
Hire him for the rest of the season - we can "use " each other. Us to help us stay up, him to prove he's the messiah.
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The answer is no.
We can't afford the sort of wages he wants to pay players.
A total outlay of £9/10 million on Beye says it all.
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Not under any circumstances and if the alternative was relegation, so be it.
I will never forgive him for what he did.
Interesting, did you forgive Ron Saunders?
Firstly, I was very young. Secondly, he'd earned some leeway.
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Can't believe people are saying they did'nt like his style of play. Have you seen the league table for fs sake !!!
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If I thought for one moment that Randy and the board were that desperately bereft of ideas and imagination, I think I'd just walk away and do something else with my time.
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I was a Monite and I would dearly love to learn the truth behind his departure: but no.
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Nope. MON needs to shoulder a good chunk of the blame for this diabolical season & the limitations within GH is currently (mis) managing in.
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NO. He took us to 6th but wasn't taking us any higher...
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No.
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I would have him back, let him get us to a safe position then sack him.
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NO! The guy was great for us at the time. But I couldn't go back to him now. I know the current manager isn't doing what we wanted but never go back. It's like getting back with an ex. Never works after the initial buzz. Thinking can't believe I nearly let this one go.. Then the annoying habits come back and you remember the frustration and the reason why u fucked her off to begin with.
Mon was not prepared to blood our youngsters. This was the man that nearly sold bannan in the summer. These kids are our life blood!
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No. He is an intrinsic part of where we find ourselves now for all sorts of reasons which have been debated on here already ad infinitum...
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No. He is an intrinsic part of where we find ourselves now for all sorts of reasons which have been debated on here already ad infinitum...
Is the right answer
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NO. He took us to 6th but wasn't taking us any higher...
No-one would've unless they had Man City-esque money.
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NO. He took us to 6th but wasn't taking us any higher...
No-one would've unless they had Man City-esque money.
Disagree strongly with this statement. The opportunity was there before man city came along, but he blew it. Dare I say it, and I really hate him, but if Redknapp was given the resources available to MON he'd have achieved it.
And as for the original question, never, never, NEVER.
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The perceived wisdom is that MON's "legacy" of a mediocre squad is the reason we're in the doo-doos. Which makes him a total genius for reaching the top six last season with the same bunch. The other nugget is that him leaving in August shortly before the end of a transfer deadline is the sole reason for us playing like we are in January. The thought of him returning though is fanciful or unthinkable. We'd have more chance of Ron Saunders returning.
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I said on here a few days ago that "Randy should sack Faulkner, reappoint O'Neill and explode the internet". Only last time I put a ;) on the end of it and I'm not doing that now.
If Stan is right that they have remained on friendly speaking terms and if whatever issues they had can be overcome, it would be a good solution for the short-term at least.
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Yes get him back
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No way. Yesterday was like MON was in charge but without the lucky goal. Saying that, even MON wouldn't have stuck Gabby out on the wing.
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NO. He took us to 6th but wasn't taking us any higher...
No-one would've unless they had Man City-esque money.
Disagree strongly with this statement. The opportunity was there before man city came along, but he blew it. Dare I say it, and I really hate him, but if Redknapp was given the resources available to MON he'd have achieved it.
And as for the original question, never, never, NEVER.
Not so much moneywise but don't think MON had the tactical nous to get us higher or the imagination with signings to push us on. He did a great job getting us consistent and at least challenging for cups. But the way he threw his toys out and left us high and dry with high wages for unplayed, average players has tainted all his good work...
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In a spontaneous combustion / urination situation I would point the other way.
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I think if O'Neill had still been manager - we'd be in the mix for the fourth spot this season, especially with Chelsea's relative decline.
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I can't see why if someone like MON has just done what he did to your investment why you'd stay buddies with him.
"hey martin. Good to hear from you.. Yeah I'm back in the uk to watch the team fuck up to another home defeat. Lunch? Yeah why not. The dorcester? of course. And I'll pick up the tab this time. Your funds must be getting low now. What I gave you as a gagging order will only stretch so far after all!"
Can't see it some how
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I think if O'Neill had still been manager - we'd be in the mix for the fourth spot this season, especially with Chelsea's relative decline.
Given the same conditions as Houllier, I think we'd be in exactly the same position.
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Yes but only when hell freezes over.
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NO. He took us to 6th but wasn't taking us any higher...
No-one would've unless they had Man City-esque money.
Disagree strongly with this statement. The opportunity was there before man city came along, but he blew it. Dare I say it, and I really hate him, but if Redknapp was given the resources available to MON he'd have achieved it.
And as for the original question, never, never, NEVER.
I disagree about Redknapp. The bright lights of London is a big attraction to top players as well big wages (don't think any of our players are on VDV's money).
As for before Man City, we was still a work in progress.
People forget last season we were right up there to more or less the end of the season, which ended at Man City, which we were winning 1-0 and Carew hit the bar to re-take the lead. Little things make big differences. On another day we could've won that and possibly ended up 4th.
I know we didn't and lot's of if's and but's (IF Vidic had been sent off, IF we'd been given a penalty against Chelsea in the semi, IF Stoke hadn't equalised to make it 2-2), but I'm trying to make a point (I think).
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To summarise, do you want the manager who took us to Wembly twice and 3 6th places back or carry on in the relegation zone....hmmmmm?
The only people who are not wanting him back on here are those who slated him last season and demanded he went. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW???
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To summarise, do you want the manager who took us to Wembly twice and 3 6th places back or carry on in the relegation zone....hmmmmm?
The only people who are not wanting him back on here are those who slated him last season and demanded he went. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW???
I think most of them didn't actually go to the matches anyhow... :-X
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Yes and hopefully Lerner would give him a nice big spending purse!
I hope he snaps up the lad Harewood, that new Wolves player you know the Ginger one, that Shorey bloke at WBA, we should get all them for about £5M each plus say 40k/wk wages and maybe he can extend the contracts of Salifou, Osbourne, Beye, Warnock, Heskey and Carew if we are lucky!
Perhaps raise more cash lets sell off the some fringe players like Bannan, Albrighton and Clark!
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To summarise, do you want the manager who took us to Wembly twice and 3 6th places back or carry on in the relegation zone....hmmmmm?
The only people who are not wanting him back on here are those who slated him last season and demanded he went. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW???
Bit sweeping that and not true. I supported him and the results. And of course like everyone else I would take our position last year over this :( I didn't actually find our football to be as bad as we make out either.
Whatever the truth, known only to the inner sanctum, he used his self proclaimed power to arm wrestle the Club.
He didn't buy wisely, utilised the same team until exhausted by March, took four others in the club with him, bought expensively and mostly unwisely and wouldn't give our excellent kids a chance. That's apart from the salaries he negotiated to a level that is unsustainable as a percentage of the Clubs revenue. And he didn't use a large number of those players anyway. He wasn't going any further. But not knowing some of this I supported him.
Take him back and he would be all powerful. Not good for us.
There are better managers/coaches out there anyway. Just not Houllier.
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He walked out on us. He did a lot of good things, much of which I supported. I have no issue defending that position. But he began to lose focus a little in my opinion in the last 6-9 months. The summer was a non event, and then he walked out on us. No man is bigger than Aston Villa, and no, we should never go back.
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I'm very happy o neill went thanks lovejoy!
What I'm not happy about was that we did not replace him with a better manager than houllier - but as for wanting o neill back- no way!
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I would. Not even the smallest chance of it happening though.
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Yes. For survival and for pushing us back up to the top 8 next season. He gets that bit extra out of average players, and turned a few half decent players into top quality performers. I don't think Gabby will ever be the same player he was under Martin O Neill. Just don't.
Okay, O Neill is a cock, and tactically clueless, but he motivates. For all the moaning we did about him last season and for being also-rans again, what he did in getting our squad to 6th, 3 years running, and not far shy of top 4 in two seasons, was excellent. Granted he wasted a fair wedge of cash, but made some excellent buys, got some cohesion with the british contingent, and made us a dangerous side to play. Tough to beat, and effective on the counter. We had no plan B granted, but plan A worked well enough to get us a top 6 spot.
If he was still here, we'd still be up there. And arguably, had he been allowed to spend the Milner money as he saw fit, or indeed hold on to Milner a bit longer, I think with the league as is, we could be right up there at the moment.
For me it's a case of not knowing what I had until it's gone. People may say O Neill is overrated, but the vast, vast difference in how his squad is performing under two different managers says it all. Houllier has some excuses, but he's had enough time that they don't wash anymore. We've a full squad pretty much to choose from now too. For me, we overachieved under O Neill. Getting our highest points total in 15 odd years, last season was an excellent achievement, after the loss of Barry.
Much as I now dislike the bloke. Who is out there who can do better who'd come here? It's sad, but I think our best chance of success in years left with O Neill, and I think he'd peaked anyway and left at the right time for his footballing reputation.
Like Houllier said when he arrived, we're an 8th-12th team. That annoyed people, but that's what we're looking at for a few years IMO. And that's only if Gerard sorts himself out, we sack him, or get someone better in for next season. Survival will do right about now though.
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To summarise, do you want the manager who took us to Wembly twice and 3 6th places back or carry on in the relegation zone....hmmmmm?
The only people who are not wanting him back on here are those who slated him last season and demanded he went. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW???
I think most of them didn't actually go to the matches anyhow... :-X
And what the fuck is that supposed to mean?
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Rather feed my children to a pack of wolves.
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yes, but only because I think a potato would be doing a better job at the moment. Take him back, let him get us safe and then sack him.
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No. No, as in fuck-off O'Neill you fucking wanker.
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Yes, everyone that wanted him out are looking pretty stupid now.
You reckon?
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Not under any circumstances and if the alternative was relegation, so be it.
I will never forgive him for what he did.
Interesting, did you forgive Ron Saunders?
I know what you mean but compare their actual achievements...
'nuf said
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I was a fully signed up "happy clapper" MON fan. I did have some issues with who we bought, but more so in what we paid them, but the table doesnt lie, and there seemed a good working plan going forward. Three top six finishes, and wembley twice in a season was great. I liked his enthusiasm, it was infectious. But regardless of what happened between the great and the good, you dont leave days before a season. That seems the hangover for me, followed by a string of injuries. It still feels like the season hasnt started yet for our team. If you took him back, whats to stop him doing the same thing next season or the one after that? My trust is not there, so I would regrettfully, not have him back
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To the Champagne man. Moet -well put.
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Not under any circumstances and if the alternative was relegation, so be it.
I will never forgive him for what he did.
Interesting, did you forgive Ron Saunders?
I know what you mean but compare their actual achievements...
One was a legend, the other a legend in his own mind.
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I'm very happy o neill went thanks lovejoy!
What I'm not happy about was that we did not replace him with a better manager than houllier - but as for wanting o neill back- no way!
Who were the better managers? As far as I recall there wasn't much of a choice. Houllier seemed to be the best of a mediocre bunch.
Who would you have picked to replace O'Neill?
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No thank you.
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Tokyo: I agree. At the time it seemed a good choice to take us forward. BTW enjoyed the march in Franschhoek.
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No, never look back... move on, forza Villa
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No. He's partly culpable for our current situation. Brand O'Neill can do one.
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His story is now history.
Let's leave it there and move on... after a few years we'll only remember the good bits.
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Not under any circumstances and if the alternative was relegation, so be it.
I will never forgive him for what he did.
If it meant us staying in the division, then yes i'd have him back tomorrow, but then again i just want what's best for the supported since i was a boy.
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Not under any circumstances and if the alternative was relegation, so be it.
I will never forgive him for what he did.
If it meant us staying in the division, then yes i'd have him back tomorrow, but then again i just want what's best for the supported since i was a boy.
>club<
i mean what have the Ulstermen done for us?
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With regret, no.
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MON from what I have seen has always acted with integrity. I could not have imagined him waving at Lpool fans or Wycombe or Leicester for that matter. I remember him taking John Motson to task because he had the temerity to ask for MONs opinion about Macheda. He told him he was the AVFC manager and was not there to join in any mediafest about Man Utds next brightest thing. A big contrast between that and the attitude of his successor post defeat to Liverpool. If the club was selling Milner and giving him a mentally unstable Ireland and no cash for next season then he was put into an impossible situation. That is my view. There are very well defined positions on here that are contrary to that. I am sure the true story will come out some day. Will he come back? No is the short answer. Onwards and ............ well we'll see
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In a heartbeat, if he and RAL agreed to what needed to be done wage wise and there were no more dummy spits.
You've more chance of Australia winning the 5th Test though. which is zero chance.
RAL was the venture set up to buy the Villa it is not Randy's initials.
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After watching some of the crap he served up at home last season and what he did to us at the start of the season it would have to be a resounding no. I still hold him as the main person responsible for what is currently taking place.
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After watching some of the crap he served up at home last season and what he did to us at the start of the season it would have to be a resounding no. I still hold him as the main person responsible for what is currently taking place.
That is possibly the most ridiculous post I have ever read.
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After watching some of the crap he served up at home last season and what he did to us at the start of the season it would have to be a resounding no. I still hold him as the main person responsible for what is currently taking place.
That is possibly the most ridiculous post I have ever read.
Unfortunatley there are a few more people who think along those lines and at the end of the day it's not doing us much good.
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After what O'Neill did I sincerely hope he never finds employment again.
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i'd rather have MFH back
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After what O'Neill did I sincerely hope he never finds employment again.
He quit a job that he didnt want to do any more........we dont know why, you need to move on Chris
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After what O'Neill did I sincerely hope he never finds employment again.
Bearing in mind that he's a decent football manager, that won't be the case.
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I'd have him back tomorrow, offer him a contract to match the top four managers, promise him the funding and freedom to sign whoever he wants, call a press conference for the signing of his new improved contract and then in front of the world media, tell him to fuck off.
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I'd have him back tomorrow, offer him a contract to match the top four managers, promise him the funding and freedom to sign whoever he wants, call a press conference for the signing of his new improved contract and then in front of the world media, tell him to fuck off.
no chance of you moving on then Mark.........
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No, he was an asshat.
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I'd have him back tomorrow, offer him a contract to match the top four managers, promise him the funding and freedom to sign whoever he wants, call a press conference for the signing of his new improved contract and then in front of the world media, tell him to fuck off.
no chance of you moving on then Mark.........
I moved on a long time ago but to read some of the bollocks on here about MON is hilarious. He had four years and tonnes of cash and still couldn't get it right. Giving him more money would have been like giving pearls to pigs, so yes, I'm pleased he's gone.
My concern now is with Houllier and no matter which way I look at it, I just can't see him getting it right, certainly not with the current squad. I think he'll do enough to keep us up and we'll probably end up finishing about 14th. Last week I thought we could still reach 6th or 7th but yesterday was like a MON display but without the luck. Most now know MON is tactically inept but I never imagined Houllier was as bad. Yesterday second half and the Man City game have to be two of the worst performances in years. My guess is Houllier has been found out and only Patrice Bergues can save him.
Saying that, the players need to share the responsibility, they've been a disgrace, with the exception of the youngsters.
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After watching some of the crap he served up at home last season and what he did to us at the start of the season it would have to be a resounding no. I still hold him as the main person responsible for what is currently taking place.
That is possibly the most ridiculous post I have ever read.
On what basis? I struggle to see how slating our home record from last season, which would have had us the bottom half if it wasn't for our away record is ridiculous? and also how would holding him responsible for walking out on us at the worst possible moment be considered the same?
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I'd have him back tomorrow, offer him a contract to match the top four managers, promise him the funding and freedom to sign whoever he wants, call a press conference for the signing of his new improved contract and then in front of the world media, tell him to fuck off.
no chance of you moving on then Mark.........
I'd have him back tomorrow, offer him a contract to match the top four managers, promise him the funding and freedom to sign whoever he wants, call a press conference for the signing of his new improved contract and then in front of the world media, tell him to fuck off.
no chance of you moving on then Mark.........
I moved on a long time ago but to read some of the bollocks on here about MON is hilarious. He had four years and tonnes of cash and still couldn't get it right. Giving him more money would have been like giving pearls to pigs, so yes, I'm pleased he's gone.
My concern now is with Houllier and no matter which way I look at it, I just can't see him getting it right, certainly not with the current squad. I think he'll do enough to keep us up and we'll probably end up finishing about 14th. Last week I thought we could still reach 6th or 7th but yesterday was like a MON display but without the luck. Most now know MON is tactically inept but I never imagined Houllier was as bad. Yesterday second half and the Man City game have to be two of the worst performances in years. My guess is Houllier has been found out and only Patrice Bergues can save him.
Saying that, the players need to share the responsibility, they've been a disgrace, with the exception of the youngsters.
I agree with everything you say in your last 3 paragraphs.......the last 20 minutes last night was a shambles, the sight of Ashley taking the ball off Brad and hoofing it forwards was totally pointless....Why does he continue to play Downing on the right wing and Gabby on the left wing ??? Why is GED obsessed with 4 5 1
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After watching some of the crap he served up at home last season and what he did to us at the start of the season it would have to be a resounding no. I still hold him as the main person responsible for what is currently taking place.
That is possibly the most ridiculous post I have ever read.
On what basis? I struggle to see how slating our home record from last season, which would have had us the bottom half if it wasn't for our away record is ridiculous? and also how would holding him responsible for walking out on us at the worst possible moment be considered the same?
It's your opinion and I don't agree with it but its as valid as mine. All I'm saying is to have MON as the main reason above say the players, the current manager is in my view ridiculous. Remember this squad plus Milner less Ireland finished 6th last season.
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I'd rather have Alexander O'Neal in charge than the current 'manager'
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We need to get this 6th place crap out of our heads imo. We were a top6 team, we aren't now. Players have got past it, our best player left and wasn't replaced and the squad wasn't good enough to cover that or the injuries. If the evidence on the pitch doesn't tell you that, then MON's walk-out should give you a big clue. If we were looking a top 6 team last summer then surely he would have stuck around even without the spending,and raised his standing even more. MON's a self-serving mercenary but he isn't stupid
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Phil Upton was also going on about this on WM this morning - they've buried the hatchet & have buddied up again. Source of this information...?
If it stopped us from the drop, yes - with a huge slice of humble pie for MON to chew.
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After watching some of the crap he served up at home last season and what he did to us at the start of the season it would have to be a resounding no. I still hold him as the main person responsible for what is currently taking place.
That is possibly the most ridiculous post I have ever read.
On what basis? I struggle to see how slating our home record from last season, which would have had us the bottom half if it wasn't for our away record is ridiculous? and also how would holding him responsible for walking out on us at the worst possible moment be considered the same?
It's your opinion and I don't agree with it but its as valid as mine all I'm saying is to have MON as the main reason above say the players, the current manager is in my view ridiculous. Remember this squad plus Milner less Ireland finished 6th last season.
That's fair enough and I would agree that they are all share some of the responsibilty, some more so than others. All I'm saying is that MON holds the most as the majority of this stems from him. We've been left with a lot of his over paid bad eggs after Randy backed him to bag the champions league and half of these guys have been too busy throwing their toys out of the pram rebelling against the current regime instead of doing what they should be doing and working hard to get us out of this.
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YES YES YES he would stop this Rot!!
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No No No.
No because he walked out.
No because of Moscow.
No because he thought he was bigger than Aston Villa.
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After watching some of the crap he served up at home last season and what he did to us at the start of the season it would have to be a resounding no. I still hold him as the main person responsible for what is currently taking place.
That is possibly the most ridiculous post I have ever read.
On what basis? I struggle to see how slating our home record from last season, which would have had us the bottom half if it wasn't for our away record is ridiculous? and also how would holding him responsible for walking out on us at the worst possible moment be considered the same?
It's your opinion and I don't agree with it but its as valid as mine. All I'm saying is to have MON as the main reason above say the players, the current manager is in my view ridiculous. Remember this squad plus Milner less Ireland finished 6th last season.
then it's the players too.
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After watching some of the crap he served up at home last season and what he did to us at the start of the season it would have to be a resounding no. I still hold him as the main person responsible for what is currently taking place.
That is possibly the most ridiculous post I have ever read.
On what basis? I struggle to see how slating our home record from last season, which would have had us the bottom half if it wasn't for our away record is ridiculous? and also how would holding him responsible for walking out on us at the worst possible moment be considered the same?
It's your opinion and I don't agree with it but its as valid as mine. All I'm saying is to have MON as the main reason above say the players, the current manager is in my view ridiculous. Remember this squad plus Milner less Ireland finished 6th last season.
then it's the players too.
It's Gerard Houllier is what it is.
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How anyone can say it is Houllier but not the players is beyond me.
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But they're probably the same people who'd want O'Neill back.
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They're probably the same people who look at the results.
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But obviously not much time watching the actual games if they think the players are absolved of any blame.
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jesus i cant believe some of the stuff on here. MON walked causing us the most damage possible.
He showed how much he cared for this club and its supporters. As I have said before the Club is above any individual and i think that some need to recognise that
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Would I rather have MoN than Houllier? Yes.
Would I have just about anyone else (apart from Brian Laws, Phil Brown, Chris Hutchings, Paul Jewell, Alan Curbishley...) ahead of either of them? Yes.
Unless he had an excellent reason the twat deserves every ill for leaving us in the lurch as he did.
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I'd never want him back.....ever.
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Yes i would. Spent a great deal of time attempting to defend houllier to a blose fan before the game yesterday but nothing i said seems true even to me now. I would take 3 sixth places in a row in a heartbeat as oppossed to 18th.
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But obviously not much time watching the actual games if they think the players are absolved of any blame.
I let you know how I think the players are doing just as soon as I can figure out what the fuck it is he is asking them to do. I honestly can't make heads nor tails out of our formations and tactics at the moment.
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But obviously not much time watching the actual games if they think the players are absolved of any blame.
I let you know how I think the players are doing just as soon as I can figure out what the fuck it is he is asking them to do. I honestly can't make heads nor tails out of our formations and tactics at the moment.
exactly, i had no problem with the set up against cheldsea MON deployed a similar set up in the boxing day match 2 seasons ago, then to deploy the same system at home to sunderland was madness and to not change it until we were 1 0 down and with 10 men was total insanity
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would I have my ex-girlfriend back that tried to poison me and i had to get a restraining order on the bitch....
great tits but theres my answer....
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Hindsight is 20-20.
MoN gambled with RL and failed as Randy holds most of the cards and did not relish ultimatums.
The fans, it appears in the majority, were then fed up with 6th places and bayed for the head of MoN.
Now the creeping realisation is emerging that MoN may not have been so bad and Houllier is now the problem.
If we were to better 6th we needed a major overhaul back then.
To get out of present predicament ditto.
MoN was working on a limited budget and wanted more.
GH looks happy to work on very limited budget and cards dealt by Randy.
To get in top 4 you need more money than RL has available but it does not affect apparently GH and therefore he will stay.
Tonight MoN's odds shortened for Liverpool job where he will get the players he needs to improve ad take out of parlous position if he gets job.
Meanwhile Villa fans will bark louder for GH dismissal while we search a replacement who will save us from relegation and GH looks for players to do same, on a limited budget.
The clamour of fans will destroy us in the end trying to influence the future and not considering what they did in the past.
There is little chance of MoN returning to VP and same of GH leaving while RL runs the place.
We are all are together in wanting a winning team and most can't afford a ticket these days.
It is our tickets and support that run the club without which we can lose not only players, mangement structure and PL place but if problems continue the owners as well and then our respect.
It is a spiral of despondency. At this stage GH is our only hope. MoN coming back is a deluded dream now. The supporters got him out before but I doubt they can ever get him back.
Supporters have to rein in their dreams or it turns into a bigger nightmare than we are already in.
RL holds the purse strings and it is a small purse presently. We are fighting to hold onto 15th or better nevermind dis-satisfaction with 6th. In two years time you can start baying for heads again..meanwhile hope your club is not cast into the abyss by the chants of the claret hatted crowd anxious to administer Madame guillotine's french kiss to the present incumbent..time to keep your head whilst all about are losing theirs, I think, mon braves. The ragged head you have anyway...
Time to get behind the real man making decisions or bring on the tumbrils again..
The future sometimes takes longer to happen than you may want.
I just hope Randy has kept his head in the face of the bloodied fangs of rabid raging crazies or complete chaos will ensue as the PL blade of expulsion threatens...calm down and give them a chance or we have no hope..survival is all it is about now.
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The key flaw in that argument is that the majority of fans were backing MoN rather than calling for his head. I was at the Chelsea semi-final and he received almost unprecedented backing. On here he received decent approval ratings in all polls.
He left of his own choosing and not Randy's or ours.
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No.
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Wouldn't have him back, but wish to god he could have swallowed some pride at the start of Summer and he and Lerner could have shipped the crap out, then reinvest the Milner money to make us stronger again.
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I, too, was happy with him back them but there was sea-change of dis-satisfaction going on. He saw the change of sentiment and decided to go.
The majority of complainants are against MoN now. He has become the bete noir of late. He needed a couple of seasons and the money to get to next level. It was not forthcoming ergo..There is no way he will return. It was those with RL/Generals ear that did the damage which got rid of him, that, and the obvious lack of funds.
He asked for something. He did not get it and went.
He may now get it elsewhere.
I have yet to read MoN's side of the argument.
We must concentrate on getting out of a worse predicament now and it takes time. Mon hit a plateau and needed backing and money to get above it. GH was expected to be off to a running start with what MoN left behind..
Certain members of the team played for MoN.
They must play for GH now or go. So far they haven't or so seems.
Carew is one..sad but true.
We need fresh blood that wat to paly for us and see us to the next stage.
It is a constant mutating morass..we are in a new morass right now that fan induced chaos will not get us out of.
GH has to form his team and then be judged.
Presently I sense there is not enough money to challenge for the top places and neither go I sense RL wants rid of GH as I don't believ he wanted rid of MoN. MoN read the signs and went.
Therefore we must endure and await outcome..survival is main thing and build next couple of seasons.
We are not Man's City/Ure or the others..Rooney and Tevez setting the pay bar at £10m pa is ludicrous and even so are not happy.
There is a deeper unhappiness at work here; a poison that needs to be drawn, something that will never happen in the present disunity.
Fans believe in their teams. Managers believe in teams. Do players anymore? What do players believe in anymore? Managers need money to attract players to get the approval of fans who earn a fraction of current players..
The equation is well out of balance an needs readjustment..
We need players who wish to demonstrate they deserve higher wages than they are currently on within reason..but if the fans walk so does the money.
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The key flaw in that argument is that the majority of fans were backing MoN rather than calling for his head. I was at the Chelsea semi-final and he received almost unprecedented backing. On here he received decent approval ratings in all polls.
He left of his own choosing and not Randy's or ours.
That Chelsea semi final was the worst i've saw for Villa fans fighting amongst themselves, the amount of arguments and scuffles that broke out between the pro and anti MON brigades that day was unreal
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I'd guess that RL compared the wage bills and incomes for Villa, Spurs and Everton and thought 'Uh-oh...the honeymoon's over". The other two for better or worse are our closest peers and achieve more for less (Spurs) or the same for much less (Everton). I don't know about anyone else but if I were RL and MON asked for more cash, under the circumstances I'd have politely asked him to put up or shut up.
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Three players in at cost of £800k plus wages is indicative of where we are and first consideration of board. I hop GH knows some quality players from time in France ,otherwise we need some miracle money to bring in big name players who are not past it.
That is it in nutshell. MoN found out the pot was empty. RH accepts the fact and will try to work on a low budget.
More going than coming, I suspect.
Fans will have to get used to running on empty fo a couple of seasons.
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MON racked up a 71 million wage bill, 11 million more than reportedly at Spurs who have a squad light years better than ours. He was never going to keep us in the top 6 again without swallowing his own pride and working with different styles of player. He was too rigd tactically, and frankly had lost the plot.
Also, people seem to forget that our form since March this year has been shocking, we only won about 7 home games last season and played turgid football, although people will now see that with rose tinted specs and imagine we were an exciting side at home. I am sure against Blackburn on the final day we had 1 shot on target the whole game, and were as uninventive and inspiring as they come.
GH may not be the right man, time and his signings over the next month will show that, if not then in feb get rid, but Martin O'Neill is without doubt not the man either.
I won't even start on the shite on the pitch he left behind, or the walking out 5 days before the season. He was John Gregory in a different guise, no better, and I liked the former more.
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I still dont get this "MON racked up the wage bill stuff"
It's like he did it all behind Randy's back. If the wage bill got too high it's Randy's fault. He's the one that signs the cheques etc.
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I still dont get this "MON racked up the wage bill stuff"
It's like he did it all behind Randy's back. If the wage bill got too high it's Randy's fault. He's the one that signs the cheques etc.
The flaw in your argument is that he would have walked if he wasn't backed by RL (as eventually happened). Then Randy would have the bad guy for not backing his manager. It's a lose-lose situation for the chairman.
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They say it's never the same second time round so i would have to say no i don't think he would come back anyway but we need to get out of this mess without MON.
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I would like to hear one day mons version of why he left and what the final straw was - his biggest mistake for me was the failure to get a top class goalscorer 3 yrs ago- we may have cracked the top 4 if he had done.
I think man citys cash and the credit crunch changed the amount Of cash randy had to spend and it seems mon didn't like the fact that randy was cutting back on spending.
I feel mon had taken us as far as he could and we had some great times under him but it was time to go - he should have gone in may though and given us a chance to rebuild rather than leave in the way he did , and for the timing of his leaving he ruined his reputation in the eyes of many !
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Haha NO
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No never go back
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I, too, was happy with him back them but there was sea-change of dis-satisfaction going on. He saw the change of sentiment and decided to go.
The majority of complainants are against MoN now. He has become the bete noir of late. He needed a couple of seasons and the money to get to next level. It was not forthcoming ergo..There is no way he will return. It was those with RL/Generals ear that did the damage which got rid of him, that, and the obvious lack of funds.
He asked for something. He did not get it and went.
He may now get it elsewhere.
I have yet to read MoN's side of the argument.
We must concentrate on getting out of a worse predicament now and it takes time. Mon hit a plateau and needed backing and money to get above it. GH was expected to be off to a running start with what MoN left behind..
Certain members of the team played for MoN.
They must play for GH now or go. So far they haven't or so seems.
Carew is one..sad but true.
We need fresh blood that wat to paly for us and see us to the next stage.
It is a constant mutating morass..we are in a new morass right now that fan induced chaos will not get us out of.
GH has to form his team and then be judged.
Presently I sense there is not enough money to challenge for the top places and neither go I sense RL wants rid of GH as I don't believ he wanted rid of MoN. MoN read the signs and went.
Therefore we must endure and await outcome..survival is main thing and build next couple of seasons.
We are not Man's City/Ure or the others..Rooney and Tevez setting the pay bar at £10m pa is ludicrous and even so are not happy.
There is a deeper unhappiness at work here; a poison that needs to be drawn, something that will never happen in the present disunity.
Fans believe in their teams. Managers believe in teams. Do players anymore? What do players believe in anymore? Managers need money to attract players to get the approval of fans who earn a fraction of current players..
The equation is well out of balance an needs readjustment..
We need players who wish to demonstrate they deserve higher wages than they are currently on within reason..but if the fans walk so does the money.
How do you know all of these things for certain?
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I still dont get this "MON racked up the wage bill stuff"
It's like he did it all behind Randy's back. If the wage bill got too high it's Randy's fault. He's the one that signs the cheques etc.
And he was not supposed to back the manager? You can't have it both ways.
It's only when told to trim the wage bill did MON get the hump.
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Look where we are now to where wew were. Bad signings aside, we would not be where we are now, get him back. Grass is always greener ie when some wanted MON out in 6th place.
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I wish I was an insider dave.
Lets say a distillation of opinion, a tincture of conjecture interwoven with years of observation in pursuit of the essence of actuality;
and the rest I read here.
ps
I await MoN's biography after he 'retires' from the Liverpool job.
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Look where we are now to where wew were. Bad signings aside, we would not be where we are now, get him back. Grass is always greener ie when some wanted MON out in 6th place.
Given the same conditions as Houllier, can you tell me how MON would have dealt with the recent situation? My guess is he would have fielded 9 players each game.
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Look where we are now to where wew were. Bad signings aside, we would not be where we are now, get him back. Grass is always greener ie when some wanted MON out in 6th place.
Given the same conditions as Houllier, can you tell me how MON would have dealt with the recent situation? My guess is he would have fielded 9 players each game.
The same 9 players each game.
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I wish I was an insider dave.
Lets say a distillation of opinion, a tincture of conjecture interwoven with years of observation in pursuit of the essence of actuality;
and the rest I read here.
ps
I await MoN's biography after he 'retires' from the Liverpool job.
So, like much of the fact here and elsewhere, it's guesswork?
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No I fucking well wouldn't. Man's a twunt of the first order and I fervently hope his bollocks turn square and fester in the corners.
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What? You mean H&V is mostly bollo!
I believe it all given a soupscon or two of esotericism.
Unless there is an AV of AV's boardroom and the rest even the participants version will be held in doubt.
Look forward to the youtube insights of RL and MoN going hammer and tongs.
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Yes hes strict and got results from the players, just as long as he didnt throw his toys away because he cant sign some bench warming waste of space
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NOOOO!!!!!
OK we had a good time at Wembley, twice but the football was poor, good teams sussed us out like in the final when the Mancs just sat deep and we didnt have a plan B, we were heading for bankrupcy and i lost all respect for him when he walked out a few days before the season started, with all his team!!! that was cynical.
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MON got results...but leaving like he did was pure crap and unforgivable.
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MON got results...but leaving like he did was pure crap and unforgivable.
Ah so another one who knows exactly why he left. Would you care to answer the question that keeps getting asked on here but never gets answered? The answer to which enables you to call judgement on his decision to leave?
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MON got results...but leaving like he did was pure crap and unforgivable.
Ok i'll ask you then and everybody else who thought it was 'unforgivable', did you forgive Ron Saunders?
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MON got results...but leaving like he did was pure crap and unforgivable.
Ok i'll ask you then and everybody else who thought it was 'unforgivable', did you forgive Ron Saunders?
Thats not always a fair question if you compare the achievements of both managers, but they both walked at a particularly awkward time. And neither struck me as vindictive or spitefull. Stubborn, big headed and arrogant without doubt, qualities that were a vital part of both managers success, but as far as MON is concerned to assume that because of the timing that is was a cold, calculated act of hatred is take anger and turn it into fantasy.
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MON got results...but leaving like he did was pure crap and unforgivable.
Ok i'll ask you then and everybody else who thought it was 'unforgivable', did you forgive Ron Saunders?
Thats not always a fair question if you compare the achievements of both managers, but they both walked at a particularly awkward time. And neither struck me as vindictive or spitefull. Stubborn, big headed and arrogant without doubt, qualities that were a vital part of both managers success, but as far as MON is concerned to assume that because of the timing that is was a cold, calculated act of hatred is take anger and turn it into fantasy.
I think it's perfectly fair question.
One left us in the lurch the week before the sart of the season, the other left us in the lurch a week or so before the Qtr Final of the European Cup.
One has still not returned to management after 5 months whilst the other turned up at Blose the following week.
They both dropped us in the shit but the shock of Saunders resignation was only heightened by where he ended up going to. If anything that was as spiteful and as engineered to cause maximum damage and embarresment to the Club as anything MON did.
So whenever I hear those crackpot theories about MON walking out in a 'vindictive act to cause maximum damage' I wonder how they felt and perhaps still feel about Saunders' defection. Afterall, 'unforgivable' sounds permanent doesn't it.
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I actually didn't 'forgive' Saunders for a long time and he was enemy number one for most fans for a long time. I actually remember being surprised how well people remembered him when I started reading the H&V forum back in the day. I've said it before and I'll say it again - unfortunately the further we get away from the MON era the more fondly it will be remembered.
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MON got results...but leaving like he did was pure crap and unforgivable.
Ok i'll ask you then and everybody else who thought it was 'unforgivable', did you forgive Ron Saunders?
Yes, of course.
Lets look at Saunders' achievements then shall we? Promotion to the first division, two league cups, one championship and left us with a team that won the European cup. Left because (in my view) Ellis hated him and his achievements and he hated Ellis right back. I forgave him the day the filth sacked him.
Now what has Martin O'Neil done for the cause? Finished sixth three times and left us with a team that is struggling in the relegation zone. Left because (in my view) he could not handle the pressure and was about to have his spending curtailed. It is also my belief that he instigated the sale of Milner in a fit of pique. Now that is only my belief but if it were to turn out to be true, rather than forgive O'Neill I'd prefer to lynch the spineless, pedantic twunt.
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Forgive a bloke that created our best team ever in living memory, created a team before that which really did have you on the edge of your seat, you saw the emotion when he was on the pitch a few years ago, i was in tears. Il get back to you
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I can't believe the poll on this subject - most of you wouldn't want MON back after watching the headless chickens play under Houllier !!! Mon dieu!!!
MON may not have played the most attractive football but his teams had spirit and fight and produced results consistently.
Results or pretty football ???
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why do people keep saying under MON we had spirit and fight ?
did they not see the home games last season, some of the worst displays i can remember.
i'm not saying they all were, and i'm not saying that MON was a total disaster, because he wasnt,
but some of the performances were right up there with the worst that Houllier has had to offer, or are we rewriting history again
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He left us, he wasn't fired. We were pretty awful in his last 6 months, so no not ever.
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Nope, never in a thousand years. Specky twat buggered off 5 days before the start of the season and knowingly dumped us right in the shit. I hope he gets galloping knob rot
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Ok we are in a bad run of results with one win in 10 league games but it's nothing that didn't happen under mon- it's just earlier in the season this time rather than starting in march-martin has gone and whatever Anyone thinks about his reign he will not be coming back!
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The creative minds continue unabated, "instigated the sale of Milner"?
Anybody care to offer up any evidence that MON mounted a calculated campaign to cause harm to Aston Villa?
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
OK, so we are saying that Milner did not want to go to Man City at all but was forced out by MON? I seem to recall the deal being completed after he left?
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I actually didn't 'forgive' Saunders for a long time and he was enemy number one for most fans for a long time. I actually remember being surprised how well people remembered him when I started reading the H&V forum back in the day. I've said it before and I'll say it again - unfortunately the further we get away from the MON era the more fondly it will be remembered.
Saunders won the title, several league cups and set up the European Cup winning side before walking out.
MON won fuck all.
Now why do you think people find it easier to forgive Saunders?
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
OK, so we are saying that Milner did not want to go to Man City at all but was forced out by MON? I seem to recall the deal being completed after he left?
We are "saying" no such thing. I am speculating based on the postings of Pelty and also comments made to me by one of the playing staff who I met and had a long conversation with last year.
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
OK, so we are saying that Milner did not want to go to Man City at all but was forced out by MON? I seem to recall the deal being completed after he left?
Without wishing to go over old ground but I thought accepted wisdom was that early in the summer Milner had not requested a move and we had rebuffed bids from Citeh. As I said above and it was confirmed by pelty earlier in the season when MON came out with his he wants to leave stuff this was a surprise to milner and the board, in fact Milner came out and said exactly that about 3 days later. Citeh renewed their interest and the board had to back their Manager in his decision to sell the player. Why MON did it I don't know but it spectacularly backfired as we lost one of our two best players and ended up having to accept having the deal cheapened with the inclusion of the headcase Ireland. I know Milner hasn't been pulling up trees at Citeh but I know which club got the better deal.
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
OK, so we are saying that Milner did not want to go to Man City at all but was forced out by MON? I seem to recall the deal being completed after he left?
We are "saying" no such thing. I am speculating based on the postings of Pelty and also comments made to me by one of the playing staff who I met and had a long conversation with last year.
Which brings me back to my point. The opinions of Martin O'Neil aired on here regarding the circumstances of his departure are based on pure speculation and nothing else.
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
OK, so we are saying that Milner did not want to go to Man City at all but was forced out by MON? I seem to recall the deal being completed after he left?
Without wishing to go over old ground but I thought accepted wisdom was that early in the summer Milner had not requested a move and we had rebuffed bids from Citeh. As I said above and it was confirmed by pelty earlier in the season when MON came out with his he wants to leave stuff this was a surprise to milner and the board, in fact Milner came out and said exactly that about 3 days later. Citeh renewed their interest and the board had to back their Manager in his decision to sell the player. Why MON did it I don't know but it spectacularly backfired as we lost one of our two best players and ended up having to accept having the deal cheapened with the inclusion of the headcase Ireland. I know Milner hasn't been pulling up trees at Citeh but I know which club got the better deal.
I was under the impression that the accepted wisdom was that Milner wanted to leave. It's the first I've heard that MON had forced him to leave.
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
OK, so we are saying that Milner did not want to go to Man City at all but was forced out by MON? I seem to recall the deal being completed after he left?
We are "saying" no such thing. I am speculating based on the postings of Pelty and also comments made to me by one of the playing staff who I met and had a long conversation with last year.
Which brings me back to my point. The opinions of Martin O'Neil aired on here regarding the circumstances of his departure are based on pure speculation and nothing else.
But we're not speculating on his departure we're speculating on why he sold Milner, though it has to be said the two issues are not unrelated.
However the reason he left, and yes its going to be speculation until he comes out and tells us, is that he'd been asked to reduce the wage bill by the board and he felt this was restricting his ability to operate in the transfer market. He decided he couldn't operate in that environment and left. I'm sure there are probably a whole range of other factors but looking at the evidence that did exist from the summer that to me seems to be the over riding factor.
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
OK, so we are saying that Milner did not want to go to Man City at all but was forced out by MON? I seem to recall the deal being completed after he left?
Without wishing to go over old ground but I thought accepted wisdom was that early in the summer Milner had not requested a move and we had rebuffed bids from Citeh. As I said above and it was confirmed by pelty earlier in the season when MON came out with his he wants to leave stuff this was a surprise to milner and the board, in fact Milner came out and said exactly that about 3 days later. Citeh renewed their interest and the board had to back their Manager in his decision to sell the player. Why MON did it I don't know but it spectacularly backfired as we lost one of our two best players and ended up having to accept having the deal cheapened with the inclusion of the headcase Ireland. I know Milner hasn't been pulling up trees at Citeh but I know which club got the better deal.
I was under the impression that the accepted wisdom was that Milner wanted to leave. It's the first I've heard that MON had forced him to leave.
Nev
I'm not going to write you a timeline but Milner said he wanted to leave only after we'd agreed to sell him and you can make your own mind up as to whether that was engineered by MON or not.
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MON lost interest. He was a good manager, he had his ways of doing things -- and they worked, to an extent. But, it seemed, his only idea of how to improve the team was spend, spend, spend.
Several players commented that he wasn't his usual self in pre-season. Whether that was because he was rejected by Liverpool or because he had taken Villa as far as he could without spending even more on players, I don't know.
Even so, the point is, he didn't want the job anymore, he had lost interest. He resigned, he didn't even bother about the fact that the timing was as bad as possible. His comments about Milner wanting to leave was unhelpful. Maybe we could have kept our best player if he hadn't made them. Some view the comments as deliberate sabotage. I see them as evidence that MON, at that point, didn't care anymore.
This season has been bad, but I'm not sure if it would have been much better with a disinterested MON in charge, going through the motions.
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Nev
There was a post from pelty back in the summer along the lines of we'd turned down two bids and it was a surprise to the board and milner when MON told the media he wanted to leave.
Oh and in answer to the original question no no and thrice no. The traitorous twat can go and hang.
OK, so we are saying that Milner did not want to go to Man City at all but was forced out by MON? I seem to recall the deal being completed after he left?
We are "saying" no such thing. I am speculating based on the postings of Pelty and also comments made to me by one of the playing staff who I met and had a long conversation with last year.
Which brings me back to my point. The opinions of Martin O'Neil aired on here regarding the circumstances of his departure are based on pure speculation and nothing else.
But we're not speculating on his departure we're speculating on why he sold Milner, though it has to be said the two issues are not unrelated.
However the reason he left, and yes its going to be speculation until he comes out and tells us, is that he'd been asked to reduce the wage bill by the board and he felt this was restricting his ability to operate in the transfer market. He decided he couldn't operate in that environment and left. I'm sure there are probably a whole range of other factors but looking at the evidence that did exist from the summer that to me seems to be the over riding factor.
I couldn't agree more, given what we've heard that is the only conclusion I can come to. The timing is the key issue though. I just don't buy the line that he deliberately timed his departure to cause maximum harm to the club, when he had shown no real signs of being a vindictive person before. I beleive his relationship with the board deteriorated throughout the summer to such a point that he thought his position was untenable and as such saw no option but to leave. He would hold the board responsible for the timing and vice versa, hence the rather fudged pronouncements.
Personally I will reserve judgement until the truth comes out.