Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: brontebilly on December 29, 2010, 02:03:49 PM
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I think I speak for the majority of Villa fans when I say this club is a real crisis situation that will probably lead to relegation in May unless drastic changes take place. The team is rotten to the core at the moment and in many cases disgracing the club.
But where is our chairman Randy Lerner in all this. Where does he stand? Has he lost the love for AVFC? Is he prepared to commit funds to the club in January? Has he learned from the Browns debacle in the US?
There are loads of questions and now we need our chairman in the midst of this crisis to publicly let the supporters know how he feels. The silence from the top is deafening and is adding to the problems.
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Don't confuse our club with a democracy.
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i respect the general greatly but he would only tell us what randy wants us to be told - i want randy to address the fans himself!
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Randy was parked right by us at the game. So he was there to see it.
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No it's not. The problems will resolve themselves soon and I think we'll end up mid-table. Once we've had a full pre-season under the new manager, with his signings, things will change. I have no doubt about that.
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No it's not. The problems will resolve themselves soon and I think we'll end up mid-table. Once we've had a full pre-season under the new manager, with his signings, things will change. I have no doubt about that.
On what evidence are you basing this opinion?
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i respect the general greatly but he would only tell us what randy wants us to be told - i want randy to address the fans himself!
Big time - while having a board member on here previously had it's advantages, it is Mr Lerner voice that really matters. The board cannot continue with it's head buried in the sand and are playing a dangerous game with the supporters if they continue to.
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No it's not. The problems will resolve themselves soon and I think we'll end up mid-table. Once we've had a full pre-season under the new manager, with his signings, things will change. I have no doubt about that.
The display at Liverpool reminded me so much of Newcastle the season they went down. Remember how gutless Newcastle were at Villa Park on the last day of the season? That is us now. We are an absolute rabble and I can't see that changing. Where was the bounce after the West Brom game? Nowhere and that is extremely worrying.
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Then if does say something all the smartarses will say "don't tell me, show me", "actions speak louder than words" and "I've heard it all before".
He's made a statement as Houllier is still in a job and he hasn't panicked like Mike Ashley. He'll make another statement by the extent to which he supports him in the transfer window. That's all that metters.
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I agree with Drummond. Houllier has had zero chance of fielding a settled side yet. He has had zero chance of bringing in his own players yet. Houllier's track record suggests he can win trophies - or at least he knows how to get his teams competing for big prizes. He is a winner, like it or not.
Only lunatic clubs such as the Newcastle Uniteds of this world would sack a manager after he has been given no opportunity to put his stamp on a team in the first place. If we really want to place oursleves in a crisis we can get rid of our current manager, get a new one in and start destabilizing the club all over again. When that manager appears to be struggling we can then sack him too...
Stability is king. We have an experienced manager with a track record of success, allow him to sort the club out in his way. He will do it - as his C.V. suggests.
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Then if does say something all the smartarses will say "don't tell me, show me", "actions speak louder than words" and "I've heard it all before".
He's made a statement as Houllier is still in a job and he hasn't panicked like Mike Ashley. He'll make another statement by the extent to which he supports him in the transfer window. That's all that metters.
He is the chairman of the club. Some words would be a start. All we are hearing now is Villa haven't spent in 2010, the Cleveland Browns fiasco, club in crisis etc I think we need a public statement confirming his commitment to the club and alarm at the current situation. He may say that he wishes to keep the wage bill in line with 75% (is it?) of revenue as per the UEFA guidelines but that transfer budgets would be provided where necessary.
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Yes Randy, please speak to us so we can pick apart every word, read between the lines, misinterpret the meaning and jump to our own conclusions which were formed before you opened your mouth anyway. If only you would speak to us I feel sure that a crisis would be averted.
Thanks.
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What is the difference in what Faulkner, Lerner or the General has to say? They all work for the same organization, having same goals, sitting in same meetings. Does the same content change, depending which mouth says it?
And I guess most people just want him to say what they want to hear, not what he wants to say. (and to be taken out of context and misused by the press)
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I don't want fuckin lame duck pacifying statements. I just want action taken to address the slide towards the Championship. We have no choice other than to see what January brings because as I said the other day on the match thread, there is not a chance in hell he will be leaving before the end of this season at least.
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It always amuses me the number of people shiting themselves because they haven’t heard anything from the chairman. Anguished cries of, why hasn’t he said anything? Has he lost his love for the club? He no longer cares, etc,etc. Are people that insecure that everything will miraculously sort itself out with a few wise words from the top brass? It’s never been his style so why he should change tack now I don’t know. If he were to say anything it would only be what we would want to hear anyway.
As has been pointed out the funds that will be available in January will speak volumes.
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Well, Houllier is in the one in charge of the team, he is talking to the press, and he is saying that the team is not playing well and that we are in a relegation fight at the moment. Why does Lerner need to say anything? The manager (and thus presumably the board) is aware that we are in trouble. There is no sign of anyone putting their head in the sand.
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Yes, Randy, perhaps you could have one of your closest accomplices come onto this board and field questions from supporters.
Who could then constantly be asked questions about team selection and playing matters, despite saying repeatedly that he can't answer them, and get used as a punchbag every time we lose.
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Of course Doug Adressed the fans all the time didnt he?
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No it's not. The problems will resolve themselves soon and I think we'll end up mid-table. Once we've had a full pre-season under the new manager, with his signings, things will change. I have no doubt about that.
Drummond, I am desperate to share your faith and I appreciate this was always going to be a difficult season. However, despite the injury problems, I am alarmed at the lack of organisation in the side. Houllier has always set his teams up to be diffcult to beat, based on a tight defence, and at times, even a negative approach in his Liverpool days.
I am trying to see signs of that but the evidence and goals against column suggests suugests he does not have a clue how to address it at the moment. We will only start picking up points when we stop conceding goals and at the moment it's getting worse not better.
Oh, and I don't think Lerner making any soothing comments in the press about having patience and giving the manager time is going to make us feel any better.
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No it's not. The problems will resolve themselves soon and I think we'll end up mid-table. Once we've had a full pre-season under the new manager, with his signings, things will change. I have no doubt about that.
I'm sure some were saying that in 1986/87
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I see to remember someone asking the general whether Curtis Davies wasn't being picked because of a clause in his contract. Then when the general said that wasn't the case, said questioner replied "The Davies contract question still hasn't been resolved."
If only I could remember the name of the questioner. Brontesomething......
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Then if does say something all the smartarses will say "don't tell me, show me", "actions speak louder than words" and "I've heard it all before".
He's made a statement as Houllier is still in a job and he hasn't panicked like Mike Ashley. He'll make another statement by the extent to which he supports him in the transfer window. That's all that metters.
I agree and this is because I'd like him not to tell us but show us. This whole having your face all over the media with weasel words and mealy platitudes is somewhat Gollivanesque and is rather suggestive of not planning on doing anything other than sit in an office and praying.
What and why the fuck should he say something to us? Would some meaningless platitude like 'the players and management at the club are working tirelessly to resolve our bad run' be worth anything? To me, no. There would be far more value in him backing his manager in the window or if he chooses making a managerial change. Why do we need him to show some leadership to us? Are we part of the problem? Is he? Do chief executives and owners generally show such "leadership" unless they are annoying rent-a-gobs? No they don't.
I'd like to think that Randy is presently doing something, making tough decisions and that Paul Faulkner is monitoring the situation from the ground and that both are talking to players and management. If they are not doing something then there is something wrong. If they are not saying anything it doesn't matter as long as they are doing something.
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No it's not. The problems will resolve themselves soon and I think we'll end up mid-table. Once we've had a full pre-season under the new manager, with his signings, things will change. I have no doubt about that.
I'm sure some were saying that in 1986/87
Fact is we've a really small squad of overpaid players. When the heart of that team is out through injury the manager is stuffed.
Lichaj
Hogg
Herd
Bannan
Albrighton
Clarke
Delfouenso
Delph
Weismann
All players who have appeared for the Villa at some point this season. A couple who have appeared before and in essence a youth/reserve team. These are the players that Houllier has tpo work with sometimes 6 or 7 of which are in the team/squad on match day.
How is pillorying the manager over results when having to use these players fair?
When you add in to the mix Carew, Dunne, Ireland and Heskey that have been pilloried by fans into the mix alongside Petrov, NRC, Warnock and Downing that have also come in for stick previously and it makes the squad look exceptionally weak doesn't it?
Whose fault is all of that?
The last manager left players out who he didn't like, NRC and Young L being prime examples and came in for criticism, the new manager leaves out Dunne, Carew and Ireland who the fans have largely siad are crap and it's hard to see what more he could have done.
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This is all about problems on the playing side at present.
What can directors say about poor results during a period where the transfer window is closed?
Unless you are saying there are problems with the overall running of the club in the way there were in the late 1960s or the final years of Doug, its not for the directors/owners to comment.
Leave it to the team manager to comment or not on all playing matters, in the end results improve or eventually directors sack managers. Thats how it should work, unless you want club directorship David Sullivan or Ken Bates style ?
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Where's Phil Mepham when you need him......
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But where is our chairman Randy Lerner in all this. Where does he stand? Has he lost the love for AVFC? Is he prepared to commit funds to the club in January? Has he learned from the Browns debacle in the US?
There are loads of questions and now we need our chairman in the midst of this crisis to publicly let the supporters know how he feels. The silence from the top is deafening and is adding to the problems.
I have Randy's secret email address so emailed him your questions. It took less than a minute for him to reply, which I thought was very decent of him. He said "Thank Bronti for his questions and tell him to grow a pear". Maybe it's a magic pear, where everything we wish for is granted. Either that or a mispelling.
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I think they will back GH in january that's the action i would like for the time being to see if it can change anything on the pitch.
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gerrard int doing it
we cant wait for him to turn things around because we are running out of time, 20 points is the minimum requirement for a team who is aiming to stay up ,,, and its a disgrace we are in this position
im not blaming houllier ,,,,,im just saying he has to go for the good of the club and be replaced with a manager like sam A . to get us out of this hole
gerrard has no experience in relegation scraps and we must act and be ruthless to make sure we survive ths crisis we are in at present
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at the moment they are backing him to the tune of an u19 french player from a very average french club and a jamaican fella from the MLS who no one has ever heard of. We are knee deep in the brown stuff and we need to get rid of this clown before we watch our boys jog out to play Derby and Nottm Forest next year. He is alienating our senior players, and yesterday i heard him say publicly that Eric Lichaj had a mare which i'm sure will do wonders for the lads confidence - the only club statement i want to see is "Gerard Houllier had left by mutual consent"
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From what I saw this is not a problem with squad depth or lack of quality. It wasn't that we lost 4-0 to Man City that was the problem. It wasn't a case of our simply doing our best and being beaten by a better team. If it were then who wouldn't say 'fair enough, there's not a lot we can do to address this till the transfer window' I saw a collection of disaffected, directionless players out there who could barely be called a team. And that problem must reside with the manager and what he and his staff are doing. We are the most out of form team in the Prem at the moment, we are 1, yes *1* point above the relegation zone and have the worst goal difference in the division. Leaving it till the manager has had a full pre-season may be too late, unless the thought of preparing to face Crystal Palace and Coventry City fills you with delight...
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with regards to the chairman saying things to appease the minority, then i say his actions in january will speak louder than any words of appeasement to stupid ears!
If he doesnt back him with his chequebook then there is no faith and no ambition, however i think he will back him and our fortunes will turn for the better!
Most on here wanted mon out because of the shit we had to endure on the pitch but with relative success, now he has fucked off and a new system is trying to be put in place, you all want it like it was before with drivel being played without certain style! The only criticism i have with houllier is that he should have done it gradually however with the injuries and bad attitudes of certain players perhaps he had no choice!
This man has been a success where ever he has been. I for one with randys backing feel he will turn it round!
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Can someone tell me what was the fiasco at the Browns?
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Someone has to say something soon because all these rumours are getting out of hand. One saying about The manager and lichaj and albrighton having an arguement, one about the directors saying he can only buy the cheap players and sell our best ones is driving me crazy, tbh the last one is like milner all over again it makes sense :/. We are putting too much faith in our academy in my opinion and unless things start to change, we are going down. Why did they buy pires i dont understand hes a "has-been" he has no steam left and can varely last 20 minutes in a game.
Im frustrated i know but its making no sense why we areny playing together, we have gone from top 6 to bottom 6 in the space of 6 months, HOW!? Its crazy never have i seen a team do it in my life. Once again this is my opinion and I know the rumours may not be true but it kinda adds up, with dunne not getting played for w.e reason and the youngsters all being pushed over the other team memebers in my opinion it makes sense.
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The more I think about it, the more I think Houllier and McAllister should go now. Still get rid of.Ireland, and give someone else the same squad as last season minus Milner and plus Pires and some now more experienced youngsters, and see if they can get the results more in line with last season. If it's too late for January additions so be it, just keep us up and have the money in the summer.
I would take anyone with recent pl experience and a reasonable track record.
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I see to remember someone asking the general whether Curtis Davies wasn't being picked because of a clause in his contract. Then when the general said that wasn't the case, said questioner replied "The Davies contract question still hasn't been resolved."
If only I could remember the name of the questioner. Brontesomething......
Care to dig out that quote? I do recall asking Mr Krulak why Stephen Ireland was signed without having a manager in place. Of course the deal was already signed and sealed subject to James Milner playing against West Ham. A situation legally that makes absolutely no sense but there you go......
I'd like to know how committed Lerner is to the club? His track record in charge of sports teams is a disaster but unlike the NFL, the threat of relegation is very real. With our debts and wage bill, relegation would be catastrophic.
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Sorry, it was you who went out of his way to insult 'Mr' Krulak - which you are still doing - and anyone else who disagreed with you, then continued to talk about Davies when it had been explained that .his contract had nothing to do with the loan deal.
At the last count Lerner is about £180 million committed to the club, and I doubt he moved to the leafy Warwickshire countryside because he likes being close to Drayton Manor.
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Sorry, it was you who went out of his way to insult 'Mr' Krulak - which you are still doing - and anyone else who disagreed with you, then continued to talk about Davies when it had been explained that .his contract had nothing to do with the loan deal.
At the last count Lerner is about £180 million committed to the club, and I doubt he moved to the leafy Warwickshire countryside because he likes being close to Drayton Manor.
Who was insulted? He wasn't anyway.
How much interest does AVFC pay RAL on an annual basis? Lerner did sanction the moves for Beye, Warnock, Shorey, Harewood, Ireland, Heskey et al so is far from blameless for the current financial predicament we find ourselves.
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'we find ourselves'? It's his money.
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I am totally gobsmacked at the lack of understanding of the problems Houllier has been facing. He has taken over a team that were unable to buy in the summer and lost probably their most affective player. He then lost not one not two but at least five experienced players ouy of his squad to long term injuries, forcing him to play kids some of whom would have not seen first team duty for a little while yet. He tries to root out the
troublemakers and non performers and gets accused of losing the players. I can't think of any manager who could encounter all those problems piling up on him without major losses. SAir Alex himself would fare no better given those circumstances, i am not saying GH is the answer to all our prayers what i am saying is that many of you have not thought these problems through and are letting frustration get in the way of reality. Lets wait a few weeks see who he brings in and then weigh things up.
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I am totally gobsmacked at the lack of understanding of the problems Houllier has been facing. He has taken over a team that were unable to buy in the summer and lost probably their most affective player. He then lost not one not two but at least five experienced players ouy of his squad to long term injuries, forcing him to play kids some of whom would have not seen first team duty for a little while yet. He tries to root out the
troublemakers and non performers and gets accused of losing the players. I can't think of any manager who could encounter all those problems piling up on him without major losses. SAir Alex himself would fare no better given those circumstances, i am not saying GH is the answer to all our prayers what i am saying is that many of you have not thought these problems through and are letting frustration get in the way of reality. Lets wait a few weeks see who he brings in and then weigh things up.
A rare voice of reason in a sea of reckless despair.
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I am totally gobsmacked at the lack of understanding of the problems Houllier has been facing. He has taken over a team that were unable to buy in the summer and lost probably their most affective player. He then lost not one not two but at least five experienced players ouy of his squad to long term injuries, forcing him to play kids some of whom would have not seen first team duty for a little while yet. He tries to root out the
troublemakers and non performers and gets accused of losing the players. I can't think of any manager who could encounter all those problems piling up on him without major losses. SAir Alex himself would fare no better given those circumstances, i am not saying GH is the answer to all our prayers what i am saying is that many of you have not thought these problems through and are letting frustration get in the way of reality. Lets wait a few weeks see who he brings in and then weigh things up.
My thoughts entirely and most other peoples about 2 months ago but with every defeat the balance of support has shifted, although the main reasons as you have listed have not.
GH has the ideas that can take this club forward on an unlevel playing field, rather than the same old, same old of the likes of Curbishley, Allardyce, Hughes etc. Whether he can put those ideas into tactics on the pitch, only time will tell. I am still for giving him time and money to do that.
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I said a few days ago, we may be taking a few steps back, but that is too ensure we are able to take even more steps forward.
I think/hope all what Houllier is doing is for the good of the club and will improve us as a club.
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I am totally gobsmacked at the lack of understanding of the problems Houllier has been facing. He has taken over a team that were unable to buy in the summer and lost probably their most affective player. He then lost not one not two but at least five experienced players ouy of his squad to long term injuries, forcing him to play kids some of whom would have not seen first team duty for a little while yet. He tries to root out the
troublemakers and non performers and gets accused of losing the players. I can't think of any manager who could encounter all those problems piling up on him without major losses. SAir Alex himself would fare no better given those circumstances, i am not saying GH is the answer to all our prayers what i am saying is that many of you have not thought these problems through and are letting frustration get in the way of reality. Lets wait a few weeks see who he brings in and then weigh things up.
My thoughts entirely and most other peoples about 2 months ago but with every defeat the balance of support has shifted, although the main reasons as you have listed have not.
GH has the ideas that can take this club forward on an unlevel playing field, rather than the same old, same old of the likes of Curbishley, Allardyce, Hughes etc. Whether he can put those ideas into tactics on the pitch, only time will tell. I am still for giving him time and money to do that.
How much time though?
The club look like they are prepared to back him in the transfer market, but we have Chelsea, Sunderland, the cup game, Blues, then Man City in the next 3 weeks. How many points will we pick up amongst those?
We are all desperate for him to turn this round but the nuclear scenario for the board is investing in players Houllier has chosen and we suffer another three or four bad results.
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When Doug was in charge we complained about his continual interferance, the lack of funing, his sacking of managers, the lack of investment, and now its all Randy's fault for all sorts of things, along with McAllister, Houllier, Cowans, the Gypsies curse, and no doubt a few more if results don't change.
We are informed there is no money to spend, Gen K is in hiding, most of the squad is in revolt and relegation is a cert.
Happy New Year Villa fans, I'm worried I admit with the run of results and the lack of fight shown, but for now Mon's depature when he did plus the injury list contributes anything.
No statement from Lerner or anyone else will change that and it certainly won't alter what happens where it matters.
On the pitch.
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Sorry, it was you who went out of his way to insult 'Mr' Krulak - which you are still doing - and anyone else who disagreed with you, then continued to talk about Davies when it had been explained that .his contract had nothing to do with the loan deal.
At the last count Lerner is about £180 million committed to the club, and I doubt he moved to the leafy Warwickshire countryside because he likes being close to Drayton Manor.
Who was insulted? He wasn't anyway.
How much interest does AVFC pay RAL on an annual basis? Lerner did sanction the moves for Beye, Warnock, Shorey, Harewood, Ireland, Heskey et al so is far from blameless for the current financial predicament we find ourselves.
And if he didn't back the manager he'd be at fault for that? You can't have it both ways.
And were not in a financial predicament.
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Can someone tell me what the fiasco was at the cleveland browns being talked about earlier in the thread please.
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don't worry, we have a fiasco of our own to worry about.
I'm sure RAL and co will have something to say at the end of the season " sorry we got it wrong".
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When Doug was in charge we complained about his continual interferance, the lack of funing, his sacking of managers, the lack of investment, and now its all Randy's fault for all sorts of things, along with McAllister, Houllier, Cowans, the Gypsies curse, and no doubt a few more if results don't change.
We are informed there is no money to spend, Gen K is in hiding, most of the squad is in revolt and relegation is a cert.
Happy New Year Villa fans, I'm worried I admit with the run of results and the lack of fight shown, but for now Mon's depature when he did plus the injury list contributes anything.
No statement from Lerner or anyone else will change that and it certainly won't alter what happens where it matters.
On the pitch.
By the cringe. I wonder what things would look like if you were to exaggerate.
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Browns is not doing well at the moment and is playing last game of season against hated Pittsburgh Steelers at home (Division decider match)
Cleveland Browns President Mike Holmgren will make decision about coaching staff after the game. Cleveland is at 5 wins out of 15 games so far. Think Cleveland will change coaching staff. Especially in Offensive Co-ordinator position.
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A vote of confidence in the manager would not go amiss *prayingthingy*