Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pmk1981 on December 29, 2010, 10:40:45 AM
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Anyone think this could be possible?
Everyone take a houllier out poster and hold it up before the game or just not go ? I know season ticket holders have already paid the money but if nearly every season ticket holder didnt go to the game next wednesday the ground would be empty !! because i dont see many people paying to go down there
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How about supporting the team rather than behaving like a stroppy toddler who can't get their own way?
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I blame the players rather than Houllier. He hasn't done well, but the players as a group have been a disgrace.
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Fuck that lets riot ;)
Only kiddin
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How about supporting the team?
You took the words right out of my mouth.
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I'm not getting involved in any protest what so ever.
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Theres no need.
The message from the supporters is coming through loud and clear, after the Liverpool game and during the Man City game.
As for the players, however culpable they are, and let's face it they are far from blameless, it will be the manager who will pay the ultimate price. It comes with the territory.
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Good plan.Sunderland is a game we must win.That will really help ::). Do you think getting behind the team might be a better option ?
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Anyone think this could be possible?
Everyone take a houllier out poster and hold it up before the game or just not go ? I know season ticket holders have already paid the money but if nearly every season ticket holder didnt go to the game next wednesday the ground would be empty !! because i dont see many people paying to go down there
Maybe we could get SSN to interview a couple of drooling-at-the-mouth illiterate 12 year olds during the protests, too, then our transformation to Newcastle fans would be entirely complete.
We're in a bad place right now, but holding up cards asking for the manager to get sacked rather than supporting the team is petulant, ill thought out, counter productive and more than a little bit pathetic.
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I blame the players rather than Houllier. He hasn't done well, but the players as a group have been a disgrace.
I think they've both been as bad as each other, they've allowed this season to drift along without making any impact on it.
This is when the senior pros need to stand up and be counted, not sure how many have got the fight in them.
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No.
I think it's one of the downsides of the internet that this sort of thing is a lot easier to organise now. There's a real danger of unfocused, knee-jerk reactions that won't do us any favours.
But if the team produce another spineless performance like yesterday's (or the one at Liverpool, or Newcastle), the fans at the game will quite rightly show their displeasure. That's all the protest we need just now I'd say.
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no.. I would like tosee the players who put on the shirt show show fookin passion..
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and can they put some proper shooting boots on, everytime they get a half chance , the shots are so bloody weak, wheres the power gone ;-)
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Oh sorry i thought i was on VT.
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A protest would make us look like dickhead Newcastle & Liverpool fans.
Let's not go there.
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players not getting paid this week would make me feel a little better.. at least they would not be able to buy a Bentley this week..
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We're all pretty pissed off but a protest isn't the way forward. First priority is to get out of a potential relegation battle and the only way to do that is to get behind the team and not destabilise things even more
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I agree with CJ.
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Lets all go and become Manchester United fans instead.
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Down with this sort of thing.
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Down with this sort of thing.
Best post today.
Feck/Girls/Drink
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Houllier has had less than four months in charge, hasn't been able to buy any players of his own, and suffered a crippling injury list of the ones he's inherited.
For God's sake, the team needs our support, not this petulant bollocks!
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Down with this sort of thing.
Careful, now.
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A protest, with an objective of what? Sack the Manager or remove the Chairman?
The time to make your feelings known are at the end of the season, until then I'll support the team in every way I can. Players & supporters who aren't prepared to pull together to get us out of this temporary mess can fcuk off!
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Down with this sort of thing.
We should form a protest group right now to protest against the protesters who are going to protest against Houllier and the players ! And dont think we wont be ready to oppose further protest groups which will now doubt be set up to protest against our protest group.
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Up the Villa.
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villa fans protest?? bit too much effort...
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evryone is pissed off and worried, get behind the club and show our support! Houllier has been there for 4 months with a squad that is not his own. This guys track record wouldnt read so well if he didnt know how to weedle out the wankers and replace them with players who will want to do well for the club!
your post is immature and futile!
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If in doubt blow up some balloons.
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No.
Raise the fucking roof against Sunderland. I don't want Villa to go down.
The manager situation can be addressed in the summer. I can't stand Houllier, but he's here to stay unless he walks himself.
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What a ridiculous suggestion- we are in a mess right now and need to pull through this- houllier out posters and protests would only help the likes of carew, Ireland and dunne who are more a cause of our mess than houllier.
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NO to organised protest-
The casual / walk up fan will stop going until we turn the corner-
The team and management will have got the message strong and clear
from the away support yesterday ..............let's hope there is a positive
reaction over the next few matches
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NO to organised protest-
The casual / walk up fan will stop going until we turn the corner-
I think that's already happened - have we had a sell-out this season yet?
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While you're buying your "Houllier Out" placards see if they will throw in some "Allardyce Out" ones as a job lot to save money.
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NO NEVER. We are NOT low life club. Protest hurts our name our badge our club. We are not going to do that just because some greedy here today gome tomorrow w*ankers are not doing their job!
Remember they will be gone tomorrow we will still be here.
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NO, I don't want to see a protest. Get behind the lads and lets hope we can beat Sunderland when we play then at VP. A protest will harm our players confidence and give the airheads on Sky Sports News something to report for days and days.
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How fucking sad would that be. Are we destined to become like Newcastle supporters?
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There's no way I'm going bare-chested in this weather.
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There's no way I'm going bare-chested in this weather.
I'm going to assume that you weren't the bare-chested lad near me in the front row at Eastlands yesterday. He was having a whale of a time. Which is quite an appropriate metaphor.
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Did he blubber when the fourth goal went in?
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There's no way I'm going bare-chested in this weather.
I'm going to assume that you weren't the bare-chested lad near me in the front row at Eastlands yesterday. He was having a whale of a time. Which is quite an appropriate metaphor.
Did the ball hit him in the face several times, was his ticket for a seat that wasn't there and did he trip over and break his leg on the way out?
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Will we all walk slowly and arrive ten minutes late to a game we were going to anyway wearing some special chocolate and sky blue scarves?
Fuck me sideways! At least Newcastle, Man U and Liverpool fans almost had some cause to their protests rather than throwing a bit of a hissy fit about the manager. I'll save my protests until we sack Houllier and imply Joking Here to replace him. There are clubs that have had far, far worse turmoil and crises than we are having.
The way to go as others have said so far is to go utterly the opposite way. Get beyond our lads (we might not back or like them all; I know I don't) and put some energy behind them, fill the ground for the Sunderland game and make a wall of noise. Admittedly, they might still let us down but lets not give them an excuse.
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No, no, no!
As shit as we are playing an organised protests can do nothing but harm our already brittle confidence and almost certainly see us on the end of another defeat - something we can ill afford.
And not sure Lerner is going to pay any attention; if he was going to bin Houllier surely it would have been this morning after that pile of whirl served up at Eastlands yesterday.
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only if we can adopt different colour scarves for the protest,
all the top clubs do it this way
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Not a chance. Houllier might have had a shocking start but thats all it is. A Start. I would hope we are all mightily pissed off & worried with the current state of things but this is a time to show the palyers what this club means. The modern day footballler might not give a monkeys while they count their cash but if the fans go the same way it's game over.
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Yes, yes. Pale cream and lilac scarves please.
I would like to protest about the lack of arm rests in the Upper Holte.
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No!
Time to tough it out, get behind them and show some class (the fans and the team)
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Protest? Really?
Have we become that small time?
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I'm not happy with houllier or the players and mccallister dnt get off his arse but come on protesting do we really want to make our club a bigger mess than it already is. How about show everyone we ain't like the scum or Newcastle and get behind the team and be loyal and stick with the club we all love through these hard times utv
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I m not at all happy with whats going on but a protest will not help. Whilst th boys are on the pitch we need to get 100% behind them. Perhaps more than ever at the moment
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Did we protest under Do'L because that felt a lot worse than this?
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How about supporting the team rather than behaving like a stroppy toddler who can't get their own way?
Precisely.
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We better start winning soon, there is some right odd threads starting up
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I've given my opinion on Houllier, as have most people on here. It's not our decision to make and long may that continue.
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No.
Though a dirty protest, flinging shit at GH as he sits there motionless, does have a bent kind of appeal I must admit.
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I imagine that Houllier will be left in no doubt as to the crowd's true feelings without the need for an organised protest.
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Anyone who spends the match against Sunderland booing and shouting abuse at the manager rather than getting behind the team in a crucial fixture needs to take a long, hard look at themselves.
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I can't make the protest, sorry. I do have some orange balloons somewhere if you're interested
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I will not be protesting, I will be supporting. We need to win matches and getting behind the team is my small contribution.
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No. I want GH to go with a passion, but protests like this are counter productive.
The DOL era was the only time I have considered not going, I'm not quite at that stage yet.
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Felt really frustrated after the Spuds game, it was far from ideal what was happening on the pitch, but I couldnt help feel that there was a growing element who were not overly displeased to watch us get countered for that second goal.
Not that they wanted us to lose, but that 0-2 was sufficiently 'lost' to really let the bile flow out. 20 mins to go and that was enough, time to tune out and bring out all of the xmas bile.
Cant honestly say that there were even that many celebrating much around me when we scored.
I gobbed off at a few for revelling in the misery, and to be honest I really regret that now. But please people come on, support your team until the game is at least over, otherwise we've really got no hope in hell of getting out of this.
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At least we'll see the real Villa fans turning out from S'land onwards, & a lot of the MON X factor element will now fade away
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Felt really frustrated after the Spuds game, it was far from ideal what was happening on the pitch, but I couldnt help feel that there was a growing element who were not overly displeased to watch us get countered for that second goal.
Not that they wanted us to lose, but that 0-2 was sufficiently 'lost' to really let the bile flow out. 20 mins to go and that was enough, time to tune out and bring out all of the xmas bile.
Cant honestly say that there were even that many celebrating much around me when we scored.
I gobbed off at a few for revelling in the misery, and to be honest I really regret that now. But please people come on, support your team until the game is at least over, otherwise we've really got no hope in hell of getting out of this.
the anger has been building for some time now, it is said that fans gett the manager the sack
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If we're going to protest about anything there's far more than a run a bad results to complain about.
For one thing... why should football fans be expected to pay such high prices for games that are being televised live?
We should be rewarded for making the effort of being there - after all the TV "product" that is being sold around the world wouldn't be anywhere near the same without a crowd in the ground.
In fact, we're effectively Extras in a TV show featuring highly-paid stars, so we should get a tenner in cash and a free hot drink. At the very least we're the equivalent of a TV audience in a studio - who get in free.
These are the things we should be protesting about - or the fact that Police and council's dictate that our derbies not only have to kick-off just after breakfast, but now that fans are being stopped from going.
I can put up with my team performing badly at times, it's part of being a fan... but the other stuff really does need some supporter backlash.
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No.
Though a dirty protest, flinging shit at GH as he sits there motionless, does have a bent kind of appeal I must admit.
If the original poster and some like minded pals were to get together and smear their own poo on the turnstiles then that might dissuade all but the truly hardcore from attending.
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The more hysterical this gets, the more every other team loves it. Start by beating Chelsea and stop this crap before it becomes fashionable.
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How about supporting the team rather than behaving like a stroppy toddler who can't get their own way?
"Viva La Revolution" ..... again!
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No.
Though a dirty protest, flinging shit at GH as he sits there motionless, does have a bent kind of appeal I must admit.
If the original poster and some like minded pals were to get together and smear their own poo on the turnstiles then that might dissuade all but the truly hardcore from attending.
Most are on bans already
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Maybe we could get a volunteer to douse himself in petrol and set fire to himself in Aston park, that would surely make ged realise we're a bit disappointed with results at the moment
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Maybe we could get a volunteer to douse himself in petrol and set fire to himself in Aston park, that would surely make ged realise we're a bit disappointed with results at the moment
can we nominate someone? lets have a poll
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Is he still banned? It will show his determination to seek forgiveness if he agrees to go through with it.
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The more hysterical this gets, the more every other team loves it. Start by beating Chelsea and stop this crap before it becomes fashionable.
Well said DCF.
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It's not nearly time to protest yet, which would be probably quite damaging anyway.We are in a terrible mess, but the manager will have January to sort that out. If another transfer window passes with no worthwhile activity and the form continues in the recent horrible vein, then we can all start worrying as we could get relegated.
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Maybe we could get a volunteer to douse himself in petrol and set fire to himself in Aston park, that would surely make ged realise we're a bit disappointed with results at the moment
Just ask me to light a cigarette for you. I'm sure something would go wrong.
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How about supporting the team rather than behaving like a stroppy toddler who can't get their own way?
How about allowing free speech rather than insulting those who have a different opinion to you?
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How about supporting the team rather than behaving like a stroppy toddler who can't get their own way?
How about allowing free speech rather than insulting those who have a different opinion to you?
Your free speech isnt being curtailed is it? We are all able to read your opinions here are we not ?
Also I would hardly call that an insult, I get called much much worse.
My opinion for whats it is worth is that organised protests are only for special circumstances. Such as having a board of directors full of befuddled old men slowly strangling your club to death ( refer to Villa history 1960s) or having somebody with controlling ownership who hangs onto power misguidedly for a short few years too long (refer to Villa history immediately pre Lerner).
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A protest would make us look like dickhead Newcastle & Liverpool fans.
Let's not go there.
Did anyone hear Mark Bright on 5Live on Wednesday ranting about Liverpool fans? One caller (Liverpool fan) had basically said he won't be going to the Liverpool/Man Utd game this weekend because Liverpool are rubbish and this was on top of Liverpools attendances going down. In response, a bit later, Mark Bright laid into Liverpool fans telling them to stop deluding themselves they support a big club, they haven't won the league for 20 years (?) and nobody now considers them a big club. He basically said stop living on past glories, get over it and support your team.
It was quite funny to be honest, and truthful, but couldn't help but think maybe it applies to Villa a little. The support (at home) recently has been really awful.
I'm sure players would play better when fans cheer for them and their team. At least try to play better anyway.
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I've been over to a few games this season, but I've really lost the appetite for heading over to any more for the foreseeable. It's not down to the performances on the pitch whatsoever (although they're pretty bad), it's the atmosphere and attitude of the supporters that has really sucked the enthusiasm out of me. It makes me utterly depressed.
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Well this is a resounding victory for the "No" vote. It's like a Kazakhstan election result. I expect the UN to be sent in to investigate.
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Well this is a resounding victory for the "No" vote. It's like a Kazakhstan election result. I expect the UN to be sent in to investigate.
It was an utterly ridiculous and counter-productive suggestion, so no great surprise really.
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I think any protest would only strengthen GH position with the powers that be.
I would start a one man protest if he brought in Baros on loan!
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Why not do it French style. That'll show 'em.
- Take three hundred down to Bodymoor and boo the fuckers through training. Egg a few expensive cars and, if possible, smash the windows/slashthe tyres.
- At the game unfurl a giant, fuck-off banner with "SHAME ON YOU! WE WANT YOUR JERSEYS DRIPPING WITH SWEAT"
- Spend the first twenty minutes standing with your back to the pitch
- Go on strike by not singing or cheering during the game.*
*What? Oh!
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I want to protest about Nike making our shirts. I had to wait till christmas to get one (as they released them that late i was sure id get bought one) and now were playing so pilph i can only wear it round the house out of embarrasment.
Luckily I also got bought a retro champions of europe shirt- In my mind its currently 1983 and im living on shutter island
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Well at least this poll proves that there are only a few morons.
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How about supporting the team rather than behaving like a stroppy toddler who can't get their own way?
How about allowing free speech rather than insulting those who have a different opinion to you?
Your free speech isnt being curtailed is it? We are all able to read your opinions here are we not ?
Also I would hardly call that an insult, I get called much much worse.
My opinion for whats it is worth is that organised protests are only for special circumstances. Such as having a board of directors full of befuddled old men slowly strangling your club to death ( refer to Villa history 1960s) or having somebody with controlling ownership who hangs onto power misguidedly for a short few years too long (refer to Villa history immediately pre Lerner).
Nobody's free speech is being curtailed - but I'd have thought one of the senior members of this forum would show better leadership than stooping to insult when he doesn't agree with a posters point of view.
FWIW, I agree with you, I can't see that now is the time to protest. I'm sure, despite bowing out from interacting on this message baord (somewhat cowardly in my opinion) when the going gets tough, fan opinion is being monitored on these forums. A protest is likely to give the players an excuse not to perform and also to distract them away from the effort they need to put in to get us out of this mess.
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Why not do it French style. That'll show 'em.
- Take three hundred down to Bodymoor and boo the fuckers through training. Egg a few expensive cars and, if possible, smash the windows/slashthe tyres.
- At the game unfurl a giant, fuck-off banner with "SHAME ON YOU! WE WANT YOUR JERSEYS DRIPPING WITH SWEAT"
- Spend the first twenty minutes standing with your back to the pitch
- Go on strike by not singing or cheering during the game.*
*What? Oh!
I was thinking more Italian Ultra style. Turn up at there homes and threaten to shoot them unless they start winning.
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Why not do it French style. That'll show 'em.
- Take three hundred down to Bodymoor and boo the fuckers through training. Egg a few expensive cars and, if possible, smash the windows/slashthe tyres.
- At the game unfurl a giant, fuck-off banner with "SHAME ON YOU! WE WANT YOUR JERSEYS DRIPPING WITH SWEAT"
- Spend the first twenty minutes standing with your back to the pitch
- Go on strike by not singing or cheering during the game.*
*What? Oh!
I was thinking more Italian Ultra style. Turn up at there homes and threaten to shoot them unless they start winning.
Lets start putting Horses heads in beds...
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Why not do it French style. That'll show 'em.
- Take three hundred down to Bodymoor and boo the fuckers through training. Egg a few expensive cars and, if possible, smash the windows/slashthe tyres.
- At the game unfurl a giant, fuck-off banner with "SHAME ON YOU! WE WANT YOUR JERSEYS DRIPPING WITH SWEAT"
- Spend the first twenty minutes standing with your back to the pitch
- Go on strike by not singing or cheering during the game.*
*What? Oh!
I was thinking more Italian Ultra style. Turn up at there homes and threaten to shoot them unless they start winning.
Lets start putting Horses heads in beds...
can we not just burn some sheep and blockade Trinity Road with some 18 wheelers?
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Nobody's free speech is being curtailed - but I'd have thought one of the senior members of this forum would show better leadership than stooping to insult when he doesn't agree with a posters point of view.
FWIW, I agree with you, I can't see that now is the time to protest. I'm sure, despite bowing out from interacting on this message baord (somewhat cowardly in my opinion) when the going gets tough, fan opinion is being monitored on these forums. A protest is likely to give the players an excuse not to perform and also to distract them away from the effort they need to put in to get us out of this mess.
Bit of a neck on you to be, on the one hand, criticising Dave for "insulting" someone, and then in the very next paragraph calling the General's actions cowardly, haven't you?
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Close the thread.
No fucker in their right mind wants to indulge in a Newcastle style protest.
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How about supporting the team rather than behaving like a stroppy toddler who can't get their own way?
How about allowing free speech rather than insulting those who have a different opinion to you?
Your free speech isnt being curtailed is it? We are all able to read your opinions here are we not ?
Also I would hardly call that an insult, I get called much much worse.
My opinion for whats it is worth is that organised protests are only for special circumstances. Such as having a board of directors full of befuddled old men slowly strangling your club to death ( refer to Villa history 1960s) or having somebody with controlling ownership who hangs onto power misguidedly for a short few years too long (refer to Villa history immediately pre Lerner).
Nobody's free speech is being curtailed - but I'd have thought one of the senior members of this forum would show better leadership than stooping to insult when he doesn't agree with a posters point of view.
FWIW, I agree with you, I can't see that now is the time to protest. I'm sure, despite bowing out from interacting on this message baord (somewhat cowardly in my opinion) when the going gets tough, fan opinion is being monitored on these forums. A protest is likely to give the players an excuse not to perform and also to distract them away from the effort they need to put in to get us out of this mess.
People who talk about the right to free speech usually have two things in common - their inherent ability to abuse it, and their inability to accept that it works both ways. I think there's been a lot of stroppy/spoilt teenager behaviour on here and I'm saying so.
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So the reason we dont have the players we want is because we (Randy) doesnt spend enough money, or sells players he can make a lot of money on. Yet by staying away, and encouraging others to stay away, we reduce the match day spend, no doubt encouraging Randy to invest as we stick by him. We also dont support our team when they need all the help they can from us at the moment, a roaring stadium does intimidate the opposition. So far in the Premier league "strike action" has had the square root of fuck all to do with any decisions made by boards. See Manxcockneys, Toonarmy and Liverpool
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So the reason we dont have the players we want is because we (Randy) doesnt spend enough money, or sells players he can make a lot of money on.
Does anyone with any sense really believe that?
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fair point. Some bad buys negate some of that
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I'm not happy, I don't like seeing us in the position that we are in, but a protest....
No way.
Get behind the team!
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How about supporting the team rather than behaving like a stroppy toddler who can't get their own way?
How about allowing free speech rather than insulting those who have a different opinion to you?
Your free speech isnt being curtailed is it? We are all able to read your opinions here are we not ?
Also I would hardly call that an insult, I get called much much worse.
My opinion for whats it is worth is that organised protests are only for special circumstances. Such as having a board of directors full of befuddled old men slowly strangling your club to death ( refer to Villa history 1960s) or having somebody with controlling ownership who hangs onto power misguidedly for a short few years too long (refer to Villa history immediately pre Lerner).
Nobody's free speech is being curtailed - but I'd have thought one of the senior members of this forum would show better leadership than stooping to insult when he doesn't agree with a posters point of view.
FWIW, I agree with you, I can't see that now is the time to protest. I'm sure, despite bowing out from interacting on this message baord (somewhat cowardly in my opinion) when the going gets tough, fan opinion is being monitored on these forums. A protest is likely to give the players an excuse not to perform and also to distract them away from the effort they need to put in to get us out of this mess.
People who talk about the right to free speech usually have two things in common - their inherent ability to abuse it, and their inability to accept that it works both ways. I think there's been a lot of stroppy/spoilt teenager behaviour on here and I'm saying so.
That's fine. You have a right to be abusive, its your baby after all.
Free speech should allow those in a position of authority to be abusive. Hell, look at Gordon Brown.
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Actually, it's my baby and you're confusing this site with a democracy. As I've said several times before, my house, my rules.
And I think Dave got his response spot on.
Every moan, every groan at VP must affect the players, we can moan before, at half time & after the game, but for every 90 minutes OUR team is on the pitch we should be 110 % behind them & the manager. We must all get behind the lads starting in Sheffield, and if we concede don't get on their backs straight away or else... all we are doing is proving DOL right (fickle).The lion will soon roar again. Keep the faith. VTWD.
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Why do we want to get rid of the best manager (look at his CV) we have probably had in 20 years???
We've got to start supporting the team, singing for super Mark is really going to build Gabbys confidence. Not got a problem with MA, think he's a great player but Gabbys Villa through and through, he's having a tough time so we support him by singing for him to be replaced????
One sure thing that is going to push us closer to religation is the fans turning on the team and the management. Save the abuse for sites like this and local radio, get behind the 11 on the fiels and the management, we will stay up and GH will get the chance to add AV to his acheivements on his CV.
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No way should we be protesting if we want the team to start performing. It's bad enough as it is without the fans piling on more pressure. I am not A GH fan, I wasn't from day one, but I am not about to start protesting against a board that has done nothing but wonderful things since they arrived at Villa Park. Let's get behind the team when they need it most, no matter how hard that may be.
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That's fine. You have a right to be abusive, its your baby after all.
Free speech should allow those in a position of authority to be abusive. Hell, look at Gordon Brown.
It also allows you to call a man who's shown more bravery in the course of his duty than all of us put together a coward. Is that not an insult?
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That's fine. You have a right to be abusive, its your baby after all.
Free speech should allow those in a position of authority to be abusive. Hell, look at Gordon Brown.
It also allows you to call a man who's shown more bravery in the course of his duty than all of us put together a coward. Is that not an insult?
useing Gordon Brown for either arguement is somewhat analogous
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That's fine. You have a right to be abusive, its your baby after all.
Free speech should allow those in a position of authority to be abusive. Hell, look at Gordon Brown.
It also allows you to call a man who's shown more bravery in the course of his duty than all of us put together a coward. Is that not an insult?
I've a feeling you'll be waiting a while for a response to that one.
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That's fine. You have a right to be abusive, its your baby after all.
Free speech should allow those in a position of authority to be abusive. Hell, look at Gordon Brown.
It also allows you to call a man who's shown more bravery in the course of his duty than all of us put together a coward. Is that not an insult?
I've not called anyone a coward, I have suggested that the behaviour in walking away from this site when the going is tough seems cowardly. It does not imply that he as a man is cowardly; merely the cessation of posting on here. It appears that when things were going well he continued to post, but when the team's performance is going down the pan the forum is closed off - he could simply have carried on and ignored any posts he didn't feel able to comment on (perhaps after re'highlighting the rules) because of fear of the media picking up on his take on the current difficulties the club is facing. I don't know if this was a decision taken by the General individually or a corporate AVFC decision (or even an H+V decision) - so my opinion is offered upon the action of stopping communication, not towards an individual.
Given that you know nothing about me, how do you know I've not showed more bravery than a US General or been of more value to society?
Anyway. thank you for taking the time to go through my posts to seek out something you wish to try and highlight a hypocrisy you think I may have shown.
Apologies for calling this site your baby, but I think there's a degree of semantics involved in picking apart that particular statement.
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I've not called anyone a coward, I have suggested that the behaviour in walking away from this site when the going is tough seems cowardly. It does not imply that he as a man is cowardly; merely the cessation of posting on here. It appears that when things were going well he continued to post, but when the team's performance is going down the pan the forum is closed off - he could simply have carried on and ignored any posts he didn't feel able to comment on (perhaps after re'highlighting the rules) because of fear of the media picking up on his take on the current difficulties the club is facing. I don't know if this was a decision taken by the General individually or a corporate AVFC decision (or even an H+V decision) - so my opinion is offered upon the action of stopping communication, not towards an individual.
Given that you know nothing about me, how do you know I've not showed more bravery than a US General or been of more value to society?
Anyway. thank you for taking the time to go through my posts to seek out something you wish to try and highlight a hypocrisy you think I may have shown.
Apologies for calling this site your baby, but I think there's a degree of semantics involved in picking apart that particular statement.
When it comes to semantics, there's no finer example than that first sentence.
As I said, those who shout loudest for freedom of speech are invariably the first ones to complain when someone replies to them.
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Why is calling someone's behaviour who runs away from something they've been doing cowardly an insult compared to labelling someone a stroppy toddler for wishing to protest against something they don't like?
And please explain how you interpret your second sentence as relevant to me and this dialogue we've been having?
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Why is calling someone's behaviour who runs away from something they've been doing cowardly an insult compared to labelling someone a stroppy toddler for wishing to protest against something they don't like?
Adam.
I don't think the General has run away from anything.
I thinks it's more a case of the local and national media sifting through his thread on H&V, Villatalk and that other piddling one and extracting sound bites which are then taken wildy out of context.
It was causing the club's image too much harm and it would be nightmarish to imagine what they'd have printed after the last few weeks of being in the doldrums.
Best all round that he's took a break.
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Why is calling someone's behaviour who runs away from something they've been doing cowardly an insult compared to labelling someone a stroppy toddler for wishing to protest against something they don't like?
Adam.
I don't think the General has run away from anything.
I thinks it's more a case of the local and national media sifting through his thread on H&V, Villatalk and that other piddling one and extracting sound bites which are then taken wildy out of context.
That's the point upon which Adam's entire argument flounders.
The General didn't run away from anything, he didn't ask to stop doing the forums, and nor did the club.
We suggested that it made sense to take a break, as two things were happening.
Firstly, things were getting lifted by the media, taken out of context and used against the club, which thus made it very difficult for him to talk freely about anything
Secondly - and this is more something which has come up of late given recent results - after four years of asking people not to ask him questions on playing matters, and getting roundly ignored, this led to a point where the thread was wrecked by people stamping their feet, losing their tempers and shouting at him.
So, calling his absence from the forums (well, at least this one, I don't know anything about the other, shit forums) "cowardly" is not only disrespectful and childish, it is also fundamentally flawed from the off, as Adam is assuming it was something initiated by him, when it wasn't.
Hopefully that clears it up.
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Why is calling someone's behaviour who runs away from something they've been doing cowardly an insult compared to labelling someone a stroppy toddler for wishing to protest against something they don't like?
And please explain how you interpret your second sentence as relevant to me and this dialogue we've been having?
There's a bit of a difference between saying someone is acting like a kid having a tantrum when they're saying we should protest because they don't like the manager, and accusing someone else of acting in a cowardly fashion when they are doing something that's best for all concerned.
You were talking about freedom of speech, and then made some strange reference to me going through your posts, as though you didn't believe I should.
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it's a tough one...it's all perspective and as with every post on this forum, each one is received in the context of the last result - there is no constant, only flux. In a few months time, if we are still where we are...it could be argued that those who 'stifled/belittled' a protest..did not act in the best interests of the club..only time will tell.
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So, calling his absence from the forums (well, at least this one, I don't know anything about the other, shit forums) "cowardly" is not only disrespectful and childish, it is also fundamentally flawed from the off, as Adam is assuming it was something initiated by him, when it wasn't.
Hopefully that clears it up.
Rather coincidental that all the forums lost his excellent contributions then, at nigh on exactly the same time.
Smoke and mirrors perhaps, although whilst I fully understand the stupid reactions and comments of some more than justified his departure, for a time, I do think, that his absence came about because it suited, and subsequent results could be said to have justified it.
Still a great idea, but one that cannot help but be ruined by those with no thought for the greater good.
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The General took a break in the summer because his words were being picked up and misconstrued by the press. He then came back after his break and did exactly the same thing. Cowardly no, a bit daft, possibly.
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Why is calling someone's behaviour who runs away from something they've been doing cowardly an insult compared to labelling someone a stroppy toddler for wishing to protest against something they don't like?
And please explain how you interpret your second sentence as relevant to me and this dialogue we've been having?
There's a bit of a difference between saying someone is acting like a kid having a tantrum when they're saying we should protest because they don't like the manager, and accusing someone else of acting in a cowardly fashion when they are doing something that's best for all concerned.
You were talking about freedom of speech, and then made some strange reference to me going through your posts, as though you didn't believe I should.
Not at all, feel free to read anything I've posted, I just thought it showed strong commitment to the debate we were having for you to spend the time trawling through all my posts to find something to pick apart(...and perhaps a strong desire on you part to defend yourself by seeking out to undermine me and using the classical debating tactic of seeking to deflect the point and focus away from discussing what you'd said to something I'd said?)
I continue to maintain that to cease communicating with the fans in the same method when times are tough appears in my eyes a cowardly act regardless of who was responsible for the decision to cease communication - it is the act of stopping that is cowardly, not necessarily the General.
There are ways around the media not picking apart every statement - perhaps by not being overly contentious may help to start with....
The General is a big boy and I'm sure can take being called a coward by me if that's how this is interpreted. Dave knows very little about the PMK1981 when he chooses to call him a stroppy toddler and his insult could well stifle this guy's contribution in the future - i.e. ending his legitimate right to free speech on this forum. I very much doubt the General would keep away if he thought I'd called him a coward...As a leading member of this board and a very significant figure on here, he carries a strong authority position whether he likes it or not and I'd have thought had a responsibility to encourage debate and differing points of view, not seek to stifle them through insulting people who profer opinion that he disagrees with. But hey, I'm just one of the masses, so I guess the H+V clique will continue to defend his stance and position.
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Dave knows very little about the PMK1981 when he chooses to call him a stroppy toddler and his insult could well stifle this guy's contribution in the future
THE THING IS WE DIDNT PLAY ANY BETTER THAN WE DID AGAINST SUNDERLAND, ONLY THING IS THAT THE OPPONENTS WE POOR, IF WE PLAY LIKE THAT ON SUDNAY WE ARE FUCKED, BUT I HOPE WE DO AND THAT WAY HOULLIER GETS THE SACK.
PS. HOULLIER WAS TOLD TO SIGN THAT PLAYER BY THE SCOUTS, HOULLIER CANT TAKE THE CREDIT
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Adam, you're making a bit of a prat of yourself now. Have you ever heard the phrase 'discretion is the better part of valour'? By posting the General had started to cause problems for the club. That's because much of what he tried to say was being wilfully misinterpreted by others much the same as you are doing now.
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So, calling his absence from the forums (well, at least this one, I don't know anything about the other, shit forums) "cowardly" is not only disrespectful and childish, it is also fundamentally flawed from the off, as Adam is assuming it was something initiated by him, when it wasn't.
Hopefully that clears it up.
Rather coincidental that all the forums lost his excellent contributions then, at nigh on exactly the same time.
Smoke and mirrors perhaps, although whilst I fully understand the stupid reactions and comments of some more than justified his departure, for a time, I do think, that his absence came about because it suited, and subsequent results could be said to have justified it.
Still a great idea, but one that cannot help but be ruined by those with no thought for the greater good.
Like I said, I can't speak for VillaSquawk or Fear's horrific banterandracismfest, but that's what happened here.
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Chris - The point I raised initially was all about Dave's insulting of someone who sought to post a point of view and the impact of that upon free speech etc given Dave's position. It now seems that its been turned around into discussing my calling an action to cease communicating with fans when the going gets tough a cowardly act - it seems Dave has successfully deflected away the debate from being about his name calling to this. Thats a shame.
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Chris - The point I raised initially was all about Dave's insulting of someone who sought to post a point of view and the impact of that upon free speech etc given Dave's position. It now seems that its been turned around into discussing my calling an action to cease communicating with fans when the going gets tough a cowardly act - it seems Dave has successfully deflected away the debate from being about his name calling to this. Thats a shame.
When the point of view is as flawed and counter-productive as the original suggestion, then it deserves all the scorn it gets, imo.
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You're the only one talking about insults, and also the one who brought the general into it. And I'm the one who deflected the debate.
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I am the one talking about insults. You are the one who brought the General into it by trawling through my posts from another thread that you brought over onto this thread to raise in your defence by criticising me - perhaps you'd care to take the time to go back through this thread to clarify that - I'm sure it won't take you as long as it did to trawl through my previous posts to seek out one with which to criticise me.
I stand by my view that you aer seeking deflection of the debate by raising another point.
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Nobody's free speech is being curtailed - but I'd have thought one of the senior members of this forum would show better leadership than stooping to insult when he doesn't agree with a posters point of view.
FWIW, I agree with you, I can't see that now is the time to protest. I'm sure, despite bowing out from interacting on this message baord (somewhat cowardly in my opinion) when the going gets tough, fan opinion is being monitored on these forums. A protest is likely to give the players an excuse not to perform and also to distract them away from the effort they need to put in to get us out of this mess.
So you didn't say this on this thread? I'm confused?
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Dave knows very little about the PMK1981 when he chooses to call him a stroppy toddler and his insult could well stifle this guy's contribution in the future - i.e. ending his legitimate right to free speech on this forum.
Come on, adam#1, ignoring threaths of violence etc -- and that's not what we are talking about here -- it's silly to suggest that someone's right to free speech can be curtailed by a comment on a Internet message board. If PMK1981 decides to sulk instead of replying to what he perceives as an insults, that's his choice. To turn this into a debate about freedom of speech is just ridiculous. You could just as well argue that Woodhall's right to free speech has been impaired because some posters think that he, as fanzine editor, should be nice to everyone. That doesn't make sense, either.
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Am I in the H&V clique? I've always wanted to be in a gang.
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OK. I concede.
Its not easy posting and trying to do a job at the same time. Concentration lapsed.
Its been emotional!
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I am the one talking about insults. You are the one who brought the General into it by trawling through my posts from another thread that you brought over onto this thread to raise in your defence by criticising me - perhaps you'd care to take the time to go back through this thread to clarify that - I'm sure it won't take you as long as it did to trawl through my previous posts to seek out one with which to criticise me.
I stand by my view that you aer seeking deflection of the debate by raising another point.
I haven't sought to deflect anything. Protests were mentioned and I said at this point such things are akin to behaving like a stroppy kid, which is something I think applies to a lot of the hysteria of the past few weeks. That's my opinion. This free speech malarkey works both ways.
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That's because much of what he tried to say was being wilfully misinterpreted by others
It was, which was I was surprised when he carried on in exactly the same way after his brief hiatus.
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Am I in the H&V clique? I've always wanted to be in a gang.
You wouldn't want to be in it, they're very much like Gary's Gang of 70's disco hit 'Keep on Dancing' fame.
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They won't let me join.
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They won't let me join.
I think it's because they don't want to all die in some bizarre asteroid incident.
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They won't let me join.
If you had been DBTW in Sheffield the Police would have arrested you when returning the stolen goods to the victim. I am afraid that is the way your cookie crumbles.
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Dave knows very little about the PMK1981 when he chooses to call him a stroppy toddler and his insult could well stifle this guy's contribution in the future - i.e. ending his legitimate right to free speech on this forum.
Fucking good! The blokes a complete arse.
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Dave knows very little about the PMK1981 when he chooses to call him a stroppy toddler and his insult could well stifle this guy's contribution in the future - i.e. ending his legitimate right to free speech on this forum.
Fucking good! The blokes a complete arse.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47909000/jpg/_47909645_-25.jpg