Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: russon on December 27, 2010, 02:16:34 PM
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Anyone know where MON is these days? A cursory google search lead me to the attached article written in Oct (is that Harry Seycombe front row?). Is he still alive? (O'Neill not Seycombe). What's the latest on him?
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/martin-oneill-to-sheikh-em-up-in-50k-a-week-saudi-deal-14990065.html
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Travelling the world and enjoying some of the +£10m he trousered in his time at the club
No doubt he'll be at The Sandy Lane Barbados over the coming weeks
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I think the sooner we forget about that ****** the better quite frankly
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And what does John Robertson do until his mate decides he wants another job ?
Eats pies and smokes his cigarettes I suppose.
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its peculiar he still hasn't surfaced yet from that rock he's been hiding under. Even his cheerleaders in the media have gone a bit quiet.
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He's a twat. I don't give a monkey's what he's doing.
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He's a twat. I don't give a monkey's what he's doing.
spot on
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Isn't he Habib Beye's agent? He bloody well should be. £45k a week. Incredible.
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I'm pretty sure he's probably driving his Mrs absolutely fucking doolally.
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Who gives a flying ****. I daresay he will emerge as soon as we lurch towards the chasm that is the Fizzy Pop League
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I'm sure he's looking at our current league position in the papers and wanking his dick until it resembles a firey hot Pepperami.
If not that, he'll sure as hell be pleased.
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I'm sure he's looking at our current league position in the papers and wanking his dick until it resembles a firey hot Pepperami.
Brilliant.
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I'm sure he's looking at our current league position in the papers and wanking his dick until it resembles a firey hot Pepperami.
If not that, he'll sure as hell be pleased.
Hopefully he will have been peeilng/choppping hot chillis before he started. That will make his eyes water!
I thought he'd gone to Dubai or somewhere to earn loads of dosh till the redscouse job becomes available.
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Probably in a rehabilitation centre with a speech therapist still trying to learn how to say "substitution" ....................
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6th Place, clean sheets, goals, cup runs - we had it good for a few years and whilst he's off my Christmas card list for leaving us in the lurch I'm not bitter, he had his reasons and anyone who believes Martin is sat in a caribbean bar raising a glass to our misery is mistaken.
What amazes me is that Brian Little walked out when we were in deeper shit but no one calls him a twat.
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I don't care where he is as long as he stay's under the rock that he is hiding.
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I don't care where he is as long as he stay's under the rock that he is hiding.
Call me Mr Pedant but that's a contradiction in terms surely? Bit like Rick telling Neil on the Young Ones to "just shut up and tell me the answer".
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I don't care where he is as long as he stay's under the rock that he is hiding.
Call me Mr Pedant but that's a contradiction in terms surely? Bit like Rick telling Neil on the Young Ones to "just shut up and tell me the answer".
"I've told you a million times, do not exaggerate!"
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I do think he may feel a certain warm satisfaction as where we are now and the way some melodramatic tarts on here and in the media are going on will play to his ego. I don't think he will be celebrating it too much but his ego will certainly be massaged.
At the end of the day I guess he had his reasons for leaving. He did not decide one day out of the blue that he wanted to leave out of a fit of pique. The current situation is for him a vindication of his reasons.
At the time the Newcastle job came up I was told that he was resting and re-energizing before looking to return to the game in the new year. I expect him to be after the next job that will come up at a reasonable PL club.
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My guess is he's waiting for Redknapp to take the England job so that he can move in at White Hart Lane. Well I certainly hope so.
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Larf! can't imagine hoof ball o'neill would go down well with the spurs fans. Can't imagine the spurs board giving him the sort of control he insists on either
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Hes waiting for Liverpool ...
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I see Sale are looking for a new manager having just sacked Brewer, the former New Zealand back-rower. What better opportunity to put his hoof ball tactics to proper use.
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i'd hope that at some point he reflects on just what he walked out on and has some pause for regret. He could well end up at a bigger club than us at some point but he'll never have the control he had here. Similarly he could end up at a smaller club with total control but he'll never have the resources he had here
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First place I'd start looking would be under The Gnasher's patio.
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Saunders mysteriously receives a free pass for not only leaving us a few places and points above the relegation zone but then rolling up at the Sty a few days later.
This is what a turncoat REALLY looks like!
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He did actually win something mind and probably contributed to our greatest glory.
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MONs boring football teams?
6-4 against BBurn, 4-4 away at Chelsk and Spuds, 5-1 agains Blooose.........yeah shit boring football.
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Coventry hopefully.
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Saunders mysteriously receives a free pass for not only leaving us a few places and points above the relegation zone but then rolling up at the Sty a few days later.
This is what a turncoat REALLY looks like!
Not four months later he didn't. It took a long time for that particular wound to heal.
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Wherever MON actuallly is, i know one thing, he was'nt all that bad a manager.
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Wherever MON actuallly is, i know one thing, he was'nt all that bad a manager.
No, but he was a colossal ******.
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He is still under his stone where he belongs, he let us down badly
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he let us down, but he also let himself down big time
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My guess is he's waiting for Redknapp to take the England job so that he can move in at White Hart Lane. Well I certainly hope so.
Thats not so unlikely actually. Shortly after joining us I heard he discussed the Spurs job but at the time turned it down because they had a Director of Football. O'Neill said if you have the responsibility you need the authority to go with it. D's of F do not get sacked.
Doubt Redknapp will get the England job though. Might be in a prison cell by then.
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Don't concern yourself with where he is. Just be grateful that the Poison Dwarf has gone.
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I assume he is at home as he is unlikely to be in The Rocket Club with Carew!
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he is regularly playing Golf at Beaconsfield Golf Club, he is there most mornings
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bet he can launch that ball miles. HOOOOOOF!
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he plays off 4
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MON never really improved as a manager at Villa. He never moved with the times in terms of tactics, signings, rotation and I always felt he had no real vision for the club. Still and all even though he sickened me the way he left, he was a fine motivator of his favourites primarily but our sides were always organised and played with a fine spirit. In the way he left I thought he would find it sometime to get a decent job again especially with how Redknapp has brought Spurs to the CL while we could never get past 6th with more investment. However the shambles at Villa Park at present probably means his star is on the rise again.
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shoot the little wanker.....he got us in this mess......he summs up all thats wrong with todays game.....greedy bastards no loyalty......looks down on the true suppourters who pay hard earned money to watch the club they love.....
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shoot the little wanker.....he got us in this mess......he summs up all thats wrong with todays game.....greedy bastards no loyalty......looks down on the true suppourters who pay hard earned money to watch the club they love.....
I'm likin this Pete
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Apart from the shoot him bit. :o
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looks down on the true suppourters who pay hard earned money to watch the club they love.....
The O'Neill i remember always came over to the fans at away games and gave an apologetic wave whenever we'd lost. The current one rarely leaves the bench.
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8 months ago we were at wembley,,,,twice !! ,, now we could go down ,, whats changed ?? One thing,, the manager ,, never really understood why mon gets so much stick. He got us to the brink of cl football, and hes slated like dol on here,,, i'd take him back now
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8 months ago we were in the fa cup final ,, now we could go down ,, whats changed ?? One thing,, the manager ,, never really understood why mon gets so much stick. He got us to the brink of cl football, and hes slated like dol on here,,, i'd take him back now
Would you have given him another fifty million quid of your money to spend?
Are you happy with the wages legacy that he has left us to pay for?
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8 months ago we were in the fa cup final ,, now we could go down ,, whats changed ?? One thing,, the manager ,, never really understood why mon gets so much stick. He got us to the brink of cl football, and hes slated like dol on here,,, i'd take him back now
Would you have given him another fifty million quid of your money to spend?
Are you happy with the wages legacy that he has left us to pay for?
Randy gambled to try and get to the CL and my oh my it nearly paid off, there is no other way to do it but pay out loads of cash, you watch spurs go to the wall if they dont qualify again.
Do you honestly belive Randy let MON spend all that cash without any say in it whatsoever
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Waiting outside Anfield.
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8 months ago we were in the fa cup final ,, now we could go down ,, whats changed ?? One thing,, the manager ,, never really understood why mon gets so much stick. He got us to the brink of cl football, and hes slated like dol on here,,, i'd take him back now
Would you have given him another fifty million quid of your money to spend?
Are you happy with the wages legacy that he has left us to pay for?
Randy gambled to try and get to the CL and my oh my it nearly paid off, there is no other way to do it but pay out loads of cash, you watch spurs go to the wall if they dont qualify again.
Do you honestly belive Randy let MON spend all that cash without any say in it whatsoever
Kerms is right...people make out that MON gave out all these contracts behind Randy's back. Randy is as much if not more to blame for us having a large wage bill, which incidentally is required to get to the CL.
I have also always wondered where the evidence was that MON was the one who negotiated the terms of contracts with the agents...not saying he didnt, but it would surprise me if there wasnt someone from the board involved in negotiations who primarily dealt with players contracts.
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8 months ago we were in the fa cup final ,, now we could go down ,, whats changed ?? One thing,, the manager ,, never really understood why mon gets so much stick. He got us to the brink of cl football, and hes slated like dol on here,,, i'd take him back now
Would you have given him another fifty million quid of your money to spend?
Are you happy with the wages legacy that he has left us to pay for?
Randy gambled to try and get to the CL and my oh my it nearly paid off, there is no other way to do it but pay out loads of cash, you watch spurs go to the wall if they dont qualify again.
Do you honestly belive Randy let MON spend all that cash without any say in it whatsoever
If you had fifty million quid to spend would you have given it to Martin?
I absolutely loved our time under MON, it restored a pride that in my opinion had been missing since Gregory but sadly I would not have given him another penny to spend.
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Kerms,
We wern't in the FA Cup final.
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MON made some mistakes but his intention was to get us top 4, didn't like the way he left us in the shit however i would have him back tomorrow, i'm sure we'd be in a better posistion with him in charge, and if he did leave after having a hissy over the Milner money then he's been proved right, interested to see who GH gets in this window not sure a French u-19 is the answer or a MLS striker but i hope i'm proven wrong and GH gets us going again, can't see it though he just doesn't seem to fill me with confidence...never has
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8 months ago we were at wembley,,,,twice !! ,, now we could go down ,, whats changed ?? One thing,, the manager ,, never really understood why mon gets so much stick. He got us to the brink of cl football, and hes slated like dol on here,,, i'd take him back now
And losing arguably our best player. And having an injury list as long as Livery Street. But other than that ....
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Come back Martin, all is forgiven!
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Just seen him on the Coventry Road, smoking crack out of a can with that lovable Corrie rogue Craig Charles.
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Come back Martin, all is forgiven!
No it fucking well isn't.
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Come back Martin, all is forgiven!
No it fucking well isn't.
Seconded. The *ucker walked out on us.
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Come back Martin, all is forgiven!
No it fucking well isn't.
Oh yeah I forgot, some of us prefer watching us surrender to a relegation battle.
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Come back Martin, all is forgiven!
No it fucking well isn't.
Oh yeah I forgot, some of us prefer watching us surrender to a relegation battle.
OK again (read slow) he... walked ...out... on us.
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Come back Martin, all is forgiven!
No it fucking well isn't.
Oh yeah I forgot, some of us prefer watching us surrender to a relegation battle.
OK again (read slow) he... walked ...out... on us.
Yes.... I..... know...
I'd still take him back in place of the fool that's in charge now.
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nobody will know why he left until he tells us ,,, and i suspect he was gagged by a few million pounds
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Playing wth the premier league predictor on the bbc website and laughing like a madman!
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Playing wth the premier league predictor on the bbc website and laughing like a madman!
I just had a go and I got half way towards May and got very depressed as I ended up having Us, West ham and Wolves go down!
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The thread asks where is O'Neill now. My money would be on him at this very moment sitting in a Heathrow hotel lounge waiting for the arrival of the Boston flight or alternatively in the departure lounge waiting for the Boston flight. Our Martin is on a roll. Us and Liverpool both in the shit.
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Just been watching that awful cowboy builders programme and i reckon there's room for a spin off called Cowboy managers. They could get Melinda Messenger to put an arm round a tearful Randy as they go through the accounts and he shows everyone the half finished job and the sub-standard materials he used in the dressing room
Then that bald cockney dwarf could surprise a startled MON coming out of the golf course and chase after him shouting "Martin you paid 8m for WBA defender and told randy you'd get in the CL. Do you want to apologise Martin?"
They could do John Gregory as well
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Just been watching that awful cowboy builders programme and i reckon there's room for a spin off called Cowboy managers. They could get Melinda Messenger to put an arm round a tearful Randy as they go through the accounts and he shows everyone the half finished job and the sub-standard materials he used in the dressing room
Then that bald cockney dwarf could surprise a startled MON coming out of the golf course and chase after him shouting "Martin you paid 8m for WBA defender and told randy you'd get in the CL. Do you want to apologise Martin?"
They could do John Gregory as well
We all know that you had to withdraw from this board whilst your logic circuits were being re-calibrated after your victorious dismissal of the arch-enemy Martin O'Neill. But there are many of us fearful that your new found reason is but an excuse to excercise your obvious superiority over us poor homo sapiens.
I beg you, if you have any humanity, to return yourself to Evil Doctor ADZ 666 and ask him to reset you to factory settings.
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That is a neat idea Greg. I will mention it to my son when we go to the Sheffield game. There could be a follow up based on the antiques roadshow. "Where did you get this Martin?" "From some people in West Bromwich" "May I ask how much you paid?" "I thought I got a bargain at eight million pounds" "The market for Curtis Davieses is not what it used to be, I think you should insure it for 4p." Cut to shot of suit of armour driving a Morris Minor over Beachy Head.
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Ha, ha, brilliant idea Greg. that would be hilarious.
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Wherever MON is, i wish him a Happy New Year.
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MONs boring football teams?
6-4 against BBurn, 4-4 away at Chelsk and Spuds, 5-1 agains Blooose.........yeah shit boring football.
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Wolves 2-2
Sunderland 1-1
Chelsea 7-1
Everton 1-1
Stoke 2-2
For every decent result there is at least one shit one
And did someone mention cup runs/
taking out last season i dont remember any others
MON spent 125 million odd to get us errrr 6th
Anyway MON showed his true colours with the timing of his departure so why are we still discussing him.
Onwwards and upards
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MONs boring football teams?
6-4 against BBurn, 4-4 away at Chelsk and Spuds, 5-1 agains Blooose.........yeah shit boring football.
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Wolves 2-2
Sunderland 1-1
Chelsea 7-1
Everton 1-1
Stoke 2-2
For every decent result there is at least one shit one
And did someone mention cup runs/
taking out last season i dont remember any others
MON spent 125 million odd to get us errrr 6th
Anyway MON showed his true colours with the timing of his departure so why are we still discussing him.
Onwwards and upards
Tell you what though, I wouldn't mind 6th place right now.
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I wouldn't mind some of Greg's medication. At this rate he will soon be doing stand-up at the NEC
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MONs boring football teams?
6-4 against BBurn, 4-4 away at Chelsk and Spuds, 5-1 agains Blooose.........yeah shit boring football.
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Wolves 2-2
Sunderland 1-1
Chelsea 7-1
Everton 1-1
Stoke 2-2
For every decent result there is at least one shit one
And did someone mention cup runs/
taking out last season i dont remember any others
MON spent 125 million odd to get us errrr 6th
Anyway MON showed his true colours with the timing of his departure so why are we still discussing him.
Onwwards and upards
You've come up with some draws as his worst results. Ged would have a few of those as his highlights.
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i'll welcome him back with a pool ball in a sock.
3years of good times but I fill with rage at how the self-serving leprechaun left us. I always clap back former stars (see yorkie, southgate, gardner, ridgewell etc) but not him. not now.
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This is the Ged that should be managing us.
Takes no prisoners.
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He is reputed to be very deeply into famous murders especially those with contentious guilty verdicts which resulted in hangings. It is said the Hanratty case is one he knows a great deal about so at the moment I imagine he is in his study analyzing this latest move to get the Hanratty case re-opened.
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oneils a tosser should grow up,he got us into this mess,yet some supporters wont have a bad word said against him......
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I don't give a shit what people say about O'Neill, or whether he really is a tosser or not.
I do care about the lack of understanding and perspective that causes people to think we should have done better.
How many times have teams outside the Sky 4 reached 60+ points in the last 10 years?
How much time and money have Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City spent on building their squads compared to us?
How much do those teams spend on wages compared to us?
I hate the soap opera version of football where every manager and player is endowed with a fictional character, when in reality we know almost nothing about them. Who cares what they are like if they're getting the results?
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O neill did a decent job here , not a great job and not a shit job, he established us as a top 6 club and left some great memories along the way , including 2 wembley trips.
We had a real chance to crack the top 4 but failed to take that step, it was time to call it a day and I think he had taken the club as far as he could- he should have gone last may and the timing of his leaving has tarnished his image somewhat.
I was one of the people who felt his tenure should end but I do not think he did a bad job and some of the criticism levelled at him seems a bit extreme, he did ok but he could have done better.
Football is a game of if onlys and I wonder had dowd done his job and we had won the league cup where we would be now- a trophy could have made things so very different.
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he let us down, but he also let himself down big time
Yes. I wonder if he looks back and thinks "Perhaps i didn't need to do that".
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he let us down, but he also let himself down big time
Yes. I wonder if he looks back and thinks "Perhaps i didn't need to do that".
I doubt it very much.
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Wouldn't surprise me if mon is in the frame for the spurs job next year if Harry gets the England job.
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Perhaps its not gone unnoticed by chairmen that ONeil walks out on clubs.
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I had a lot of time for MON but the biggest thing that let him down was his ego!
He just always thought that he was better than anyone else and was never wrong!
All very sad really as he was nearly the perfect manager (although I didn't have much time for his assistants)!
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oneils a tosser should grow up,he got us into this mess,yet some supporters wont have a bad word said against him......
He dropped us in the shit. But the memories of beating SHA 5-1, putting to rest our awful run at OT, a cup final (which we should have won if it wern't for that twat Dowd). It wasn't all bad... We're a long way from any of that now.
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Perhaps its not gone unnoticed by chairmen that ONeil walks out on clubs.
Tends to happen with managers that no Chairman is daft enough to sack.
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Or of a manager who jumps before the inevitable. Or simply doesn't have the stomach for the fight when things get tough.
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Or of a manager who jumps before the inevitable. Or simply doesn't have the stomach for the fight when things get tough.
Maybe in the case of one of his jobs.
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I fondly remember the good times BL gave me as a fan during his days in the claret and blue and as our manager. I appreciated but didn't like his decision to leave, but his personal circumstances didn't really leave him much choice. He's never reached the heights again.
Being a fan under Saunders managership was one of the best in my 54 years of supporting Villa. He put the pride back he allowed us to hold our heads high and while I understood why he left I always thought he'd made a huge mistake.
He never reached the same heights again.
Unlike the 2 above, Martin O'Neill joined a Villa club who thanks to Randy, had superb finacial backing and little if any boardroom interferance. He had an ideal environment, wasted a fortune on players and wages as he played the big man. Then unlike the others he achieved sweet fa, quit just before the season started leaving a club in crisis, one it has not yet recovered from.
The effects of his mismanagent could hit our club for some time yet, where ever he is I hope he keeps his low profile for a long time yet, but my gut says unlike Little and Saunders who remain revered ambassadors of Villa who have only kind words and memories of the club, that little shit has more aggro in line for the club to come.
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Point is Percy, he did it to us. That makes him as reprehensible as any other non-VIlla person who I class in the wanker category.
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Probably fucking Nigel Clough.
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I'd love him to explain his reasons and motivations for leaving 5 days before the season. It's something that hasn't really been revealed for certain beyond guesswork.
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Wouldn't surprise me if mon is in the frame for the spurs job next year if Harry gets the England job.
Id love that , spurzz from playing good football to dull... personally I dont think he will ever get a bigger team than Villa now..
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I think we have wasted 4 years under Martin, yes a few good memories but at the end of the day we won nothing.
Football is a game of "if only" and I can't help but think if only we'd have had someone else in charge instead of Martin?
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Remembering that he left Celtic because of his wife's serious illness, just maybe he's taking the opportunity to spend more time with her now, and maybe travel the world and indulge his other hobbies.
I didn't particularly enjoy the style of football we played at home at times under him and I certainly didn't agree with a lot of the things he did, but the years under him provided us with plenty of good memories for which I'm grateful.
I will never understand the way our fans turn on people who have given their all to the club, the minute they decide there is a life elsewhere. If one of your friends who is a work colleague decides to go elsewhere for more money, or decides to jack in his job to have a year off travelling, do you instantly turn on him/her and spend every waking hour hating them?
MON gave everything for us when he was here, made many bad decisions but also many good ones, and walked away when he clearly felt he could no longer improve on what he'd done. If our board allowed him to waste money like he did at times, and if we didn't have a Plan B up our sleeve ready for the day he left, then whose fault is that?
Let's also not forget that he didn't tie himself down to a long contract, despite reportedly being offered one, that would have allowed him to have start this season badly and hang on until he was sacked before walking off into the sun with a massive pay-off.
Thanks... good luck for the future... life goes on.
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No thanks from me.
Let's put things into perspective, Martin Oneil has left our beloved club in a financial mess.
People think he did this and that and was good for us, I say we were good for him and increased his popularity. He was very lucky he arrived days before a new owner with no experience in football arrived, meaning he had full control much to the detriment of our club.
He spent well over 100 million of Aston Villa/Randy's money with no consideration to the welfare or future of our club, he thought only of his own success and eventual aim of landing a top four club.
So thanks for fuck all Martin, your a lucky man that landed on his feet at Villa and fucked us over.
We now have a manager with real pedigree and we are now looking forward to a bright future I hope.
Thats what I feel anyway.
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Remembering that he left Celtic because of his wife's serious illness, just maybe he's taking the opportunity to spend more time with her now, and maybe travel the world and indulge his other hobbies.
I didn't particularly enjoy the style of football we played at home at times under him and I certainly didn't agree with a lot of the things he did, but the years under him provided us with plenty of good memories for which I'm grateful.
I will never understand the way our fans turn on people who have given their all to the club, the minute they decide there is a life elsewhere. If one of your friends who is a work colleague decides to go elsewhere for more money, or decides to jack in his job to have a year off travelling, do you instantly turn on him/her and spend every waking hour hating them?
MON gave everything for us when he was here, made many bad decisions but also many good ones, and walked away when he clearly felt he could no longer improve on what he'd done. If our board allowed him to waste money like he did at times, and if we didn't have a Plan B up our sleeve ready for the day he left, then whose fault is that?
Let's also not forget that he didn't tie himself down to a long contract, despite reportedly being offered one, that would have allowed him to have start this season badly and hang on until he was sacked before walking off into the sun with a massive pay-off.
Thanks... good luck for the future... life goes on.
If he had decided at the end of last season that he'd had enough then I'd agree with you.
But he didn't, he spent the summer hawking himself to Liverpool and then fucked off when he couldn't have his cake and eat it.
He's a c***.
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I'd love him to explain his reasons and motivations for leaving 5 days before the season. It's something that hasn't really been revealed for certain beyond guesswork.
Makes you think he might be ashamed of his motives. It's a real shame, we had some good times and he left us in the shit
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I'd love him to explain his reasons and motivations for leaving 5 days before the season. It's something that hasn't really been revealed for certain beyond guesswork.
Makes you think he might be ashamed of his motives. It's a real shame, we had some good times and he left us in the shit
He cant say anything as he is in dispute with the club still
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Will we find out anything interesting at the tribunal? Are the press allowed to report etc?
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"We now have a manager with real pedigree and we are now looking forward to a bright future I hope."
Wow, those GPs really are dispensing strong happy pills these days. Say what you like about MON's flaws, but relegation was never a worry for 4 years.
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"We now have a manager with real pedigree and we are now looking forward to a bright future I hope."
Wow, those GPs really are dispensing strong happy pills these days. Say what you like about MON's flaws, but relegation was never a worry for 4 years.
What has that statement got to do with O'Neill?
Houllier does have a strong pedigree, and we are looking forward to better times, aren't we?
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Remembering that he left Celtic because of his wife's serious illness, just maybe he's taking the opportunity to spend more time with her now, and maybe travel the world and indulge his other hobbies.
I didn't particularly enjoy the style of football we played at home at times under him and I certainly didn't agree with a lot of the things he did, but the years under him provided us with plenty of good memories for which I'm grateful.
I will never understand the way our fans turn on people who have given their all to the club, the minute they decide there is a life elsewhere. If one of your friends who is a work colleague decides to go elsewhere for more money, or decides to jack in his job to have a year off travelling, do you instantly turn on him/her and spend every waking hour hating them?
MON gave everything for us when he was here, made many bad decisions but also many good ones, and walked away when he clearly felt he could no longer improve on what he'd done. If our board allowed him to waste money like he did at times, and if we didn't have a Plan B up our sleeve ready for the day he left, then whose fault is that?
Let's also not forget that he didn't tie himself down to a long contract, despite reportedly being offered one, that would have allowed him to have start this season badly and hang on until he was sacked before walking off into the sun with a massive pay-off.
Thanks... good luck for the future... life goes on.
If he had decided at the end of last season that he'd had enough then I'd agree with you.
But he didn't, he spent the summer hawking himself to Liverpool and then fucked off when he couldn't have his cake and eat it.
He's a c***.
I wonder how much of his flouncing off was about the fact he didn't get the Liverpool job he apparently was touting himself like mad for?
Although I was never one to like his football, and thought he'd never break the top four for us, as his two major limitations - tactics and transfers - were the most important things in making that next step, I always liked him as a person.
Right up until the moment he shat on us, the vindictive fucker. I don't care what anyone says, walking away when he did, he knew exactly what he was doing. And I wonder if those (increasingly of smaller numbers) of us who are bizarrely loyal to him even now, stop and think just how much of a shit he gave for them when he fucked off when he did.
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Just think if he had decided to step down at the end of last season. He would have gone with his head held high and with a prety decent record, probably been welcomed at VP like a returning hero. The Villa would have had the time to make the right appointment. That would have been real class, as it is MON has shown that he dosent havve any.
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He launched a libel action against the Daily Mirror a couple of weeks ago over their claim that he was after the Liverpool job.
What makes people think he was after the Liverpool job?
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Even some of the players sugested he was after the job
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Just think if he had decided to step down at the end of last season. He would have gone with his head held high and with a prety decent record, probably been welcomed at VP like a returning hero. The Villa would have had the time to make the right appointment. That would have been real class, as it is MON has shown that he dosent havve any.
I agree, if everybody was like you and could accept the resignation in those terms. I would have preferred that as well, if he felt he had to go. (Still not knowing his reasons is strange, especially nearly 8 months later, but still.)
However, going with your scenario, if MON had announced he was off at the end of the season, lots of people would have been reminding him that he'd announced a five year plan and there would stilll have been major bitching about him angling for 'a bigger club' and leaving the Villa in turmoil. Let's face it, was there ever a good moment for him to announce he was leaving?
I'm not a ' MON was the greatest thing since (fill in name)' but I don't see him as the worst manager we've ever had - far from it.
A top 6 finish would be rather welcome, this season!
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I think we have wasted 4 years under Martin, yes a few good memories but at the end of the day we won nothing.
Football is a game of "if only" and I can't help but think if only we'd have had someone else in charge instead of Martin?
We could've been relegated with another manager.
You're talking like we achieved nothing. If we'd had a small chunk of the luck Blues had in the cup final, we'd have won it last season. "If only" Vidic had been sent off like he should have been.
"If only" people didn't chat shit on here...
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I don't think he planned to walk out deliberately the week the season began- something probably tipped him over the edge- he didn't seem the same once Faulkner arrived and I think having to run things by him probably didn't sit comfortably with mon- he likes to pull the strings.
He should have gone last may , I don't think he could break the top 4 if he had stayed, the big chance was blown 2 yrs ago, I liked mon but after Moscow my feelings changed to a degree , although I don't hate him as some do, he did a reasonable job here but certainly not a great job and he had his faults.
He did not respond well to criticism and his style of play was not good to watch , along with his reluctance to change the team , but he did some good things too and there are a few great memories of his time here.
It was time to go and I'm glad he went but the timing of his departure left a very bad taste- I still do not think he planned to leave us deliberately in the shit.
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It was time to go and I'm glad he went but the timing of his departure left a very bad taste- I still do not think he planned to leave us deliberately in the shit.
I agree he may not have deliberately planned to leave us in the shit, but equally believe he didn't care if we were left in the shit.
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I think we have wasted 4 years under Martin, yes a few good memories but at the end of the day we won nothing.
Football is a game of "if only" and I can't help but think if only we'd have had someone else in charge instead of Martin?
We could've been relegated with another manager.
You're talking like we achieved nothing. If we'd had a small chunk of the luck Blues had in the cup final, we'd have won it last season. "If only" Vidic had been sent off like he should have been.
"If only" people didn't chat shit on here...
Or maybe if our manager had played a right back at right back instead of a centre back we might of been more of a threat. I remember clearly Cuellar got into so many good positions and had loads of space but had a poor final ball.
We did achieve nothing under Oneil.
In 10 years tine we will look back and say...? We won fuck all.
And @ a previous post, yes Houllier has a real pedigree and yes we do have a real bright future, that's got fuck all to do with my GP.
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Just think if he had decided to step down at the end of last season. He would have gone with his head held high and with a prety decent record, probably been welcomed at VP like a returning hero. The Villa would have had the time to make the right appointment. That would have been real class, as it is MON has shown that he dosent havve any.
I agree, if everybody was like you and could accept the resignation in those terms. I would have preferred that as well, if he felt he had to go. (Still not knowing his reasons is strange, especially nearly 8 months later, but still.)
However, going with your scenario, if MON had announced he was off at the end of the season, lots of people would have been reminding him that he'd announced a five year plan and there would stilll have been major bitching about him angling for 'a bigger club' and leaving the Villa in turmoil. Let's face it, was there ever a good moment for him to announce he was leaving?
I'm not a ' MON was the greatest thing since (fill in name)' but I don't see him as the worst manager we've ever had - far from it.
A top 6 finish would be rather welcome, this season!
Well he picked the absoloute worst time to go, the 5 year plan is a myth
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I just don't agree that it would all have been a lot better if MON had left at the end of last season. I wish I did.
I can see your point (described in posts above) and I really wish that he could have left and been seen as a constructive influence and latter-day hero. It was just not going to happen.
Again - when, if at all, would the best opportunity have been for him to leave and not get grief?
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I don't give a shit what people say about O'Neill, or whether he really is a tosser or not.
I do care about the lack of understanding and perspective that causes people to think we should have done better.
How many times have teams outside the Sky 4 reached 60+ points in the last 10 years?
How much time and money have Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City spent on building their squads compared to us?
How much do those teams spend on wages compared to us?
I hate the soap opera version of football where every manager and player is endowed with a fictional character, when in reality we know almost nothing about them. Who cares what they are like if they're getting the results?
Come on then, how many clubs spent more money than us while he was manager?
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Agree with the majority of posters on here. He did a decent job not great though. Compared to Redknapp at Spurs his stint at Villa Park looks poor. MON can't have any complaints at Villa either. He was backed recklessly by Lerner to chase the champs league and failed. In some ways the myth of MON was exposed at Villa. A decent manager but nothing more. Leaving 5 days before the season started was bad form but it shouldn't cloud his legacy at Villa totally.
But MON should not be blamed for the shocking state of the clubs accounts. That is the fault of our chairman much that many on here refuse to face that fact. He also should not be blamed completely for this awful season. There is never a good time to take over as manager, managerial changes tend to be made in periods of instability. People on here must be living in cloud cuckoo land if they believe in Houllier we finally have a manager of a decent pedigree. His stint thus far has been a shambles. Despite MONs limitations he is a damn sight a better football manager than that clown.
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Come On bronte, if GED were the clown you describe could you explain why he has won so many trophies in his very successful management career?
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the irish twats a wanker......he had more backing than anyother manager in villas history,he left us in the shit and he knew it,also lost us the europa cup by playing a weakend side.....he also left celtic under a cloud, now he wants money off the club...... if anyone walks out on a job surely they dont deserve compensation,
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i used to listen to Tony Butler running o wanker down on the radio and laugh but butler was right all along
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Id hardly call It leaving Celtic under a cloud- his wife had cancer and was Ill and he was giving a fantastic send off in his last game , he left there a hero to most fans.
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Correct about his wife, but he could have left Celtic in a healthier fiscal position
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I don't give a shit what people say about O'Neill, or whether he really is a tosser or not.
I do care about the lack of understanding and perspective that causes people to think we should have done better.
How many times have teams outside the Sky 4 reached 60+ points in the last 10 years?
How much time and money have Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City spent on building their squads compared to us?
How much do those teams spend on wages compared to us?
I hate the soap opera version of football where every manager and player is endowed with a fictional character, when in reality we know almost nothing about them. Who cares what they are like if they're getting the results?
Come on then, how many clubs spent more money than us while he was manager?
It's worth bearing in mind that most of those clubs had much stronger squads than ours at the start of that period and didn't need an entirely new squad as we did e.g. Man Utd with Ferdinand, Rooney, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo etc..
Man City and Spurs spent considerably more than we did.
I posted the Spurs figures on here some time ago, taken from their annual financial reports but I'm not aware of a easily accessible source of reliable info/data for PL transfer spending so don't know what the figures are for the Sky 4.
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I fondly remember the good times BL gave me as a fan during his days in the claret and blue and as our manager. I appreciated but didn't like his decision to leave, but his personal circumstances didn't really leave him much choice. He's never reached the heights again.
Being a fan under Saunders managership was one of the best in my 54 years of supporting Villa. He put the pride back he allowed us to hold our heads high and while I understood why he left I always thought he'd made a huge mistake.
He never reached the same heights again.
Unlike the 2 above, Martin O'Neill joined a Villa club who thanks to Randy, had superb finacial backing and little if any boardroom interferance. He had an ideal environment, wasted a fortune on players and wages as he played the big man. Then unlike the others he achieved sweet fa, quit just before the season started leaving a club in crisis, one it has not yet recovered from.
The effects of his mismanagent could hit our club for some time yet, where ever he is I hope he keeps his low profile for a long time yet, but my gut says unlike Little and Saunders who remain revered ambassadors of Villa who have only kind words and memories of the club, that little shit has more aggro in line for the club to come.
As a fan of similar age (slightly younger I should say) and with similar memories, I agree almost word for word.
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I don't give a shit what people say about O'Neill, or whether he really is a tosser or not.
I do care about the lack of understanding and perspective that causes people to think we should have done better.
How many times have teams outside the Sky 4 reached 60+ points in the last 10 years?
How much time and money have Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City spent on building their squads compared to us?
How much do those teams spend on wages compared to us?
I hate the soap opera version of football where every manager and player is endowed with a fictional character, when in reality we know almost nothing about them. Who cares what they are like if they're getting the results?
Come on then, how many clubs spent more money than us while he was manager?
It's worth bearing in mind that most of those clubs had much stronger squads than ours at the start of that period and didn't need an entirely new squad as we did e.g. Man Utd with Ferdinand, Rooney, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo etc..
Man City and Spurs spent considerably more than we did.
I posted the Spurs figures on here some time ago, taken from their annual financial reports but I'm not aware of a easily accessible source of reliable info/data for PL transfer spending so don't know what the figures are for the Sky 4.
If our squad was so poor, why did he spent millions on players he never used? Why did he stifle our youth academy?
He bought mainly shit players on high wages and never gave youth a chance.
Face it, he was shit and should have achieved alot more with the resources he had available.
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...and we're back in the feedback loop.
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Perhaps its not gone unnoticed by chairmen that ONeil walks out on clubs.
Tends to happen with managers that no Chairman is daft enough to sack.
And i don't believe Randy wanted him out either although most people i speak to are under the impression ONeil was forced out.
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I don't give a shit what people say about O'Neill, or whether he really is a tosser or not.
I do care about the lack of understanding and perspective that causes people to think we should have done better.
How many times have teams outside the Sky 4 reached 60+ points in the last 10 years?
How much time and money have Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City spent on building their squads compared to us?
How much do those teams spend on wages compared to us?
I hate the soap opera version of football where every manager and player is endowed with a fictional character, when in reality we know almost nothing about them. Who cares what they are like if they're getting the results?
Come on then, how many clubs spent more money than us while he was manager?
It's worth bearing in mind that most of those clubs had much stronger squads than ours at the start of that period and didn't need an entirely new squad as we did e.g. Man Utd with Ferdinand, Rooney, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo etc..
Man City and Spurs spent considerably more than we did.
I posted the Spurs figures on here some time ago, taken from their annual financial reports but I'm not aware of a easily accessible source of reliable info/data for PL transfer spending so don't know what the figures are for the Sky 4.
Strange how you always seem so sure of your figures when they suit you.
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I don't give a shit what people say about O'Neill, or whether he really is a tosser or not.
I do care about the lack of understanding and perspective that causes people to think we should have done better.
How many times have teams outside the Sky 4 reached 60+ points in the last 10 years?
How much time and money have Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City spent on building their squads compared to us?
How much do those teams spend on wages compared to us?
I hate the soap opera version of football where every manager and player is endowed with a fictional character, when in reality we know almost nothing about them. Who cares what they are like if they're getting the results?
Come on then, how many clubs spent more money than us while he was manager?
It's worth bearing in mind that most of those clubs had much stronger squads than ours at the start of that period and didn't need an entirely new squad as we did e.g. Man Utd with Ferdinand, Rooney, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo etc..
Man City and Spurs spent considerably more than we did.
I posted the Spurs figures on here some time ago, taken from their annual financial reports but I'm not aware of a easily accessible source of reliable info/data for PL transfer spending so don't know what the figures are for the Sky 4.
Strange how you always seem so sure of your figures when they suit you.
I don't think it is strange that I back up my opinion with facts, I think it strange when people hold a firm opinion that is at odds with the facts.
And it isn't a question of what suits, it is a question of what authoritative and comparable data is available. Feel free to let me know where we can get comprehensive data on transfer spending.
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facts and figures are irrelivent if you are going to buy THREE full backs for over 10 million on an absolute fortune a week and never play any of them.
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I don't think it is strange that I back up my opinion with facts, I think it strange when people hold a firm opinion that is at odds with the facts.
And it isn't a question of what suits, it is a question of what authoritative and comparable data is available. Feel free to let me know where we can get comprehensive data on transfer spending.
You say other clubs spent more than us then say you can't prove it. That, by your own admission, is a fact.
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And i don't believe Randy wanted him out either although most people i speak to are under the impression ONeil was forced out.
That must be the impression O Neil is under otherwise why the tribunal?
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I have nothing much to contribute to this thread except my fervent hope that O'Neill gets raped by a herd of rhinoceroses.
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I don't think it is strange that I back up my opinion with facts, I think it strange when people hold a firm opinion that is at odds with the facts.
And it isn't a question of what suits, it is a question of what authoritative and comparable data is available. Feel free to let me know where we can get comprehensive data on transfer spending.
You say other clubs spent more than us then say you can't prove it. That, by your own admission, is a fact.
I say that Spurs and Man City spent more than us.
I've previously posted the Spurs figures on here, taken from their annual accounts reports at http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/investor/investor_annual_report.html. I haven't bothered attempting to find a definitive source for the Man City spending figures because I don't think anyone doubts that they have spent more.
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Who gives a fuck about spurs when talking about MON, it's depressing, they have 3 world class players and we have there reserve right back on loan.
Both clubs have sold there best players carrick and Berbatov, Barry and Milner.
We are no where near them because of Martin Oneil the prick, not because they have spent a little bit more than us. I just can't see how you can argue against that.
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Another ten pages.
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I don't think it is strange that I back up my opinion with facts, I think it strange when people hold a firm opinion that is at odds with the facts.
And it isn't a question of what suits, it is a question of what authoritative and comparable data is available. Feel free to let me know where we can get comprehensive data on transfer spending.
You say other clubs spent more than us then say you can't prove it. That, by your own admission, is a fact.
I say that Spurs and Man City spent more than us.
I've previously posted the Spurs figures on here, taken from their annual accounts reports at http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/investor/investor_annual_report.html. I haven't bothered attempting to find a definitive source for the Man City spending figures because I don't think anyone doubts that they have spent more.
Over the course of Martin O'Neill's reign, which is what I was talking about, I do.
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I don't think it is strange that I back up my opinion with facts, I think it strange when people hold a firm opinion that is at odds with the facts.
And it isn't a question of what suits, it is a question of what authoritative and comparable data is available. Feel free to let me know where we can get comprehensive data on transfer spending.
You say other clubs spent more than us then say you can't prove it. That, by your own admission, is a fact.
I say that Spurs and Man City spent more than us.
I've previously posted the Spurs figures on here, taken from their annual accounts reports at http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/investor/investor_annual_report.html. I haven't bothered attempting to find a definitive source for the Man City spending figures because I don't think anyone doubts that they have spent more.
Over the course of Martin O'Neill's reign, which is what I was talking about, I do.
You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
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You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
Yes. Now prove it.
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You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
Yes. Now prove it.
I wouldn't have thought so. They spent over £100m on Barry, Santa Cruz, Kolo Toure, Lescott, Tevez and Adebayour, and that was in one summer transfer window (2009). That's not counting Bridge, De Jong, Kompany, Wright-Phillips, Given, Johnson, Robinho, any of the players bought last summer before MON left, or any of the players signed by Sven, who spent quite a bit as well. Some reports say they've spent £325m on players since the takeover in 2008.
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http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
This Transfer League Table is a record of the amount of money spent in transfer fees by English Premier League Football Clubs over the last five seasons.
The table also shows new investment which club owners have made available to their club managers. The new investment can be seen season by season on the Club page from the Teams Transfer menu.
The "Purchased" column in this table shows the money spent on players in transfer fees by all the English Premier League for the last five seasons.
The "Sold" column shows the money received by the football club from the sale of players in the same period.
In the Nett" column the total of transfer fees received from the sale of Players is subtracted from the total money spent in transfer fees on purchasing players since 2003. This Nett figure is the "new investment" made available each season to the manager to buy players.
The "per season" column is the "Nett" total divided by the number of years that have passed since 2006 giving an average of the money spent in transfer fees by each premiership club each season since 2006.
# 2006 - 2011 Purchased Gross/Sold /Net/Per Season
1 Manchester City £455,670,000 £75,550,000 £380,120,000 £76,024,000
2 Chelsea £199,500,000 £101,800,000 £97,700,000 £19,540,000
3 Tottenham £230,300,000 £135,100,000 £95,200,000 £19,040,000
4 Aston Villa £145,350,000 £67,650,000 £77,700,000 £15,540,000
5 Sunderland £122,850,000 £65,725,000 £57,125,000 £11,425,000
6 Liverpool £253,240,000 £205,280,000 £47,960,000 £9,592,000
7 Stoke City £54,725,000 £10,920,000 £43,805,000 £8,761,000
8 West Ham £105,070,000 £68,225,000 £36,845,000 £7,369,000
9 Fulham £63,675,000 £28,875,000 £34,800,000 £6,960,000
10 Bolton £52,150,000 £26,750,000 £25,400,000 £5,080,000
11 Wolves £33,525,000 £8,225,000 £25,300,000 £5,060,000
12 West Bromwich Albion £46,585,000 £27,560,000 £19,025,000 £3,805,000
15 Everton £64,750,500 £48,250,000 £16,500,500 £3,300,100
14 Manchester United £164,300,000 £150,850,000 £13,450,000 £2,690,000
15 Birmingham City £64,875,000 £53,850,000 £11,025,000 £2,205,000
16 Blackpool £4,700,000 £250,000 £4,450,000 £890,000
17 Wigan £58,500,000 £60,200,000 -£1,700,000 -£340,000
18 Blackburn Rovers £41,752,000 £47,290,000 -£5,538,000 -£1,107,600
19 Arsenal £85,150,000 £113,000,000 -£27,850,000 -£5,570,000
20 Newcastle £63,100,000 £112,650,000 -£49,550,000 -£9,910,000
Hull £23,250,000 £9,225,000 £14,025,000 £2,805,000
Middlesbrough £79,700,000 £64,850,000 £14,850,000 £2,970,000
Burnley £13,090,000 £10,575,000 £2,515,000 £503,000
Leeds United £2,100,000 £12,800,000 -£10,700,000 -£2,140,000
Portsmouth £75,600,000 £104,520,000 -£28,920,000 -£5,784,000
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You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
Yes. Now prove it.
Would you care to explain why you don't think Man City spent more?
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You can widen or narrow the timeline to suit whichever argument you choose though, that's the flaw in all of this.
I don't take the Swiss Rambler site or any similar cack handed attempt at tabulating as gospel when it comes to transfer deals. I do recall though that for three summers in a row (2007/2008/2009) we were listed as one of the top 2/3 spenders in England - in 2008 we were one of the highest spenders in Europe.
So for three out of the four years MON was with us, his backing extended to being in a position to spend more than Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U and - yes- Tottingham. So I genuinely can't see how anyone would still (desperately) attempt to make out that that he was in any way hard done by, or delivered a level of performance far in excess of his meagre resources.
It's not as if he inherited a Barnsley, or similar blank canvass either, at least five of the regular starting XI available to him in the first part of the 2006/07 season were top class internationals.
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You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
Yes. Now prove it.
Would you care to explain why you don't think Man City spent more?
I don't have to; I don't know either way although the posts above do seem to provide some evidence. You, on the other hand, are quick to claim that Martin O'Neill was veritably impoverished, but can't actually prove it.
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The table on the transfer site suggests our overall spend under mon after sales at £84m and spurs at £78m - although the table now suggests spurs have spent more there was a £17.5m spend last summer and we made a profit.
Therefore dave is correct that we spent more than spurs under o neills reign , and were 3rd in spending behind man city and Chelsea during mons 4 year reign.
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You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
Yes. Now prove it.
Would you care to explain why you don't think Man City spent more?
I don't have to; I don't know either way although the posts above do seem to provide some evidence. You, on the other hand, are quick to claim that Martin O'Neill was veritably impoverished, but can't actually prove it.
I didn't claim anything of the sort, I merely said people should look at the facts.
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You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
Yes. Now prove it.
Would you care to explain why you don't think Man City spent more?
I don't have to; I don't know either way although the posts above do seem to provide some evidence. You, on the other hand, are quick to claim that Martin O'Neill was veritably impoverished, but can't actually prove it.
I didn't claim anything of the sort, I merely said people should look at the facts.
And the facts are........?
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You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
Yes. Now prove it.
Would you care to explain why you don't think Man City spent more?
I don't have to; I don't know either way although the posts above do seem to provide some evidence. You, on the other hand, are quick to claim that Martin O'Neill was veritably impoverished, but can't actually prove it.
O'Neill certainly never spent more than 12 million on any one player, whereas our rivals for champions league places were spending 15 million plus routinely.
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The table on the transfer site suggests our overall spend under mon after sales at £84m and spurs at £78m - although the table now suggests spurs have spent more there was a £17.5m spend last summer and we made a profit.
Therefore dave is correct that we spent more than spurs under o neills reign , and were 3rd in spending behind man city and Chelsea during mons 4 year reign.
But we were playing a massive catch up game with Spurs etc. They have been spending at that level for several years before Randy arrived. When I did a comparison last year they had a squad of players thar cost about £80m more than ours.
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According to the table the facts suggest only man city and Chelsea net spent more than villa during mons 4 years- suggesting that maybe 6 th place being the highest finish was not good enough for the money spent.
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I'd accept that argument chris, the link provided in my above post shows the transfer site has all figures from the start of the premier league and is very interesting to look at .
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I have nothing much to contribute to this thread except my fervent hope that O'Neill gets raped by a herd of rhinoceroses.
That would be tremendous.
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How much of the money MoN spent was wasted? Including gross salaries for less than average players?
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O'Neill certainly never spent more than 12 million on any one player, whereas our rivals for champions league places were spending 15 million plus routinely.
That depends on your definition of rivals. Everton, Newcastle and even teams such as Blackburn and West Ham would all see themselves as in with a chance of top six and therefore our rivals during some or all of this period.
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How much of the money MoN spent was wasted? Including gross salaries for less than average players?
He did'nt buy bad players, we would'nt have finished in the top 6 three season's in a row otherwise. He just spent far far too much on those he did bring in. Warnock for £8m is the main example.
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Interestingly looking at that website we are the 6th highest spenders since the premiership began and under randy the 4th highest spenders after spurs overtook us last summer- seems results wise we haven't had value for money on the overall outlay.
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I have nothing much to contribute to this thread except my fervent hope that O'Neill gets raped by a herd of rhinoceroses.
That would be tremendous.
I'd much rather he was strapped to a chair and made to read these circuitous and tedious Spurs-wage-bills-did-he-or-did-he-not-waste-Randy's-money arguments.
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ok i feel sorry for oneils wife being ill, but iv realitives in glasgow celtic fans too.he fell out with there board aswell, mon was a myth
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How much of the money MoN spent was wasted? Including gross salaries for less than average players?
He did'nt buy bad players, we would'nt have finished in the top 6 three season's in a row otherwise. He just spent far far too much on those he did bring in. Warnock for £8m is the main example.
He made some good purchases, the problem was that for every Milner, there were far too many Habib Beyes, Curtis Davies's, Nicky Shoreys and Emile Heskeys.
It was all a bit random, really, no inclination to look abroad, to try and get value for money, just shopping exclusively in the most expensive market, in the hope that you'd get away with it.
We're now seeing the downside of it, in terms of the wages being sapped away by some of the dross he bought.
I think that the best illustration of the problems with MON's transfer policy was that, when we really needed a striker, he went and bought Marlon Harewood.
Incidentally, I'm not having this "he's a shit manager" nonsense - he quite clearly isn't, not unless you've got a very strange definition of "shit manager".
I just think he's got certain limitations, and his particular limitations were in precisely the areas where you need to be really on the ball if you're going to go from being 6th to being 4th - and, no, whatever you say about how many points of fourth we were, it might have well as been 100 points.
Seeing how well Spurs have done in the CL makes me wonder what it'd have been like watching us in the same competition, playing his brand of football, and, to be honest, the answer is "embarassing" and "brief".
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Not sure freaky, I remember him doing a lap of honour with Celtic scarf round his neck and getting a standing ovation at his last game, it's on YouTube somewhere.
A lot of Celtic fans rate him 2nd only to jock stein- although he won things there whereas here he won nothing.
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How much of the money MoN spent was wasted? Including gross salaries for less than average players?
He did'nt buy bad players, we would'nt have finished in the top 6 three season's in a row otherwise. He just spent far far too much on those he did bring in. Warnock for £8m is the main example.
He made some good purchases, the problem was that for every Milner, there were far too many Habib Beyes, Curtis Davies's, Nicky Shoreys and Emile Heskeys.
It was all a bit random, really, no inclination to look abroad, to try and get value for money, just shopping exclusively in the most expensive market, in the hope that you'd get away with it.
We're now seeing the downside of it, in terms of the wages being sapped away by some of the dross he bought.
I think that the best illustration of the problems with MON's transfer policy was that, when we really needed a striker, he went and bought Marlon Harewood.
I agree, and possibly more strange is that he clearly believed Harewood was worth signing and then barely ever played him. I'd love him to explain the logic behind that signing.
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he played players out of position. bought 4 centre halfes yet let cahill go...... enough said
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Not sure freaky, I remember him doing a lap of honour with Celtic scarf round his neck and getting a standing ovation at his last game, it's on YouTube somewhere.
A lot of Celtic fans rate him 2nd only to jock stein- although he won things there whereas here he won nothing.
To me, he's second only to a very sweaty Jock Strap.
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How much of the money MoN spent was wasted? Including gross salaries for less than average players?
He did'nt buy bad players, we would'nt have finished in the top 6 three season's in a row otherwise. He just spent far far too much on those he did bring in. Warnock for £8m is the main example.
He made some good purchases, the problem was that for every Milner, there were far too many Habib Beyes, Curtis Davies's, Nicky Shoreys and Emile Heskeys.
It was all a bit random, really, no inclination to look abroad, to try and get value for money, just shopping exclusively in the most expensive market, in the hope that you'd get away with it.
We're now seeing the downside of it, in terms of the wages being sapped away by some of the dross he bought.
I think that the best illustration of the problems with MON's transfer policy was that, when we really needed a striker, he went and bought Marlon Harewood.
I agree, and possibly more strange is that he clearly believed Harewood was worth signing and then barely ever played him. I'd love him to explain the logic behind that signing.
At this point, someone will say "Marlon did a job / didn't cost much / did his bit then was replaced by a better player".
I wonder what kind of "job" he did for the price of 4.5m plus, what, 25k a week for 3 years - that's more or less 10 million pounds. What a great investment that was.
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Hindsight being 20/20 vision and all that, but Cahill, Ridgewell, Davis and Gardner have all gone on to have decent careers too.
Not many wept when most of those departed, it's true. But it's hard to make a genuine argument that the players who kept them out of the side (or replaced them altogether) were drastically superior, despite the huge outlay.
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You doubt that Man City spent more than Villa over the course of Martin O'Neill's time at Villa?
Yes. Now prove it.
Would you care to explain why you don't think Man City spent more?
I don't have to; I don't know either way although the posts above do seem to provide some evidence. You, on the other hand, are quick to claim that Martin O'Neill was veritably impoverished, but can't actually prove it.
I didn't claim anything of the sort, I merely said people should look at the facts.
And the facts are........?
Pieces of information about real events that have happened or circumstances that exist.
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Incidentally, I'm not having this "he's a shit manager" nonsense - he quite clearly isn't, not unless you've got a very strange definition of "shit manager".
I just think he's got certain limitations, and his particular limitations were in precisely the areas where you need to be really on the ball if you're going to go from being 6th to being 4th - and, no, whatever you say about how many points of fourth we were, it might have well as been 100 points.
In a nutshell.
He came to us with a good reputation, and history will probably record him as one of our better managers.
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Pieces of information about real events that have happened or circumstances that exist.
And which mysteriously can only be found when they suit your argument.
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Come On bronte, if GED were the clown you describe could you explain why he has won so many trophies in his very successful management career?
There is also not getting France to the World Cup in 1994, failing to have one decent title charge at Liverpool, failing to really challenge the Champs League with a fine Lyon side.
Agreed he has won trophies. I really am struggling to figure out how particularly in cup competitions as his tactics here thus far have been really poor. I do think he has some good ideas about football and there was some good business done in January, he does seem to have his eye on the bigger picture than MON too re youth development, players going on loan etc. But his man mangement of players has proven disastrous plus his PR skills are incredibly inept for a manager of his experience. I dont think he really has the drive for the job at Villa Park and well the results paint a poor picture dont they.
Unlike MON he seems to be able to get players out of the club though so I cant imagine Lerner firing him in the summer. I will be truly shocked if he turns it around next season and proves me wrong. I still think with a few additions we would have a pretty decent squad but there is no never say die attitude in the players anymore, we collapse when things go against us and that is a huge indictment of the manager imo.
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Agreed he has won trophies. I really am struggling to figure out how particularly in cup competitions as his tactics here thus far have been really poor. I do think he has some good ideas about football and there was some good business done in January, he does seem to have his eye on the bigger picture than MON too re youth development, players going on loan etc. But his man mangement of players has proven disastrous plus his PR skills are incredibly inept for a manager of his experience. I dont think he really has the drive for the job at Villa Park and well the results paint a poor picture dont they.
I agree with you on the PR thing, he's been an unmitigated disaster on that front, he really is his own worse enemy at times.
re the way he handles players, though, maybe it was the players in the wrong, and maybe some of them needed a sharp kick up the backside?
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Agreed he has won trophies. I really am struggling to figure out how particularly in cup competitions as his tactics here thus far have been really poor. I do think he has some good ideas about football and there was some good business done in January, he does seem to have his eye on the bigger picture than MON too re youth development, players going on loan etc. But his man mangement of players has proven disastrous plus his PR skills are incredibly inept for a manager of his experience. I dont think he really has the drive for the job at Villa Park and well the results paint a poor picture dont they.
I agree with you on the PR thing, he's been an unmitigated disaster on that front, he really is his own worse enemy at times.
re the way he handles players, though, maybe it was the players in the wrong, and maybe some of them needed a sharp kick up the backside?
Absolutely. It's seems impossible for some to seperate the two though.
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And the facts are........?
Pieces of information about real events that have happened or circumstances that exist.
Ah, sarcasm! The fall-back response from those who have lost the argument.
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dave.woodhall: --- Quote from: Villadawg on March 13, 2011, 07:55:26 PM ---Pieces of information about real events that have happened or circumstances that exist. --- End quote ---And which mysteriously can only be found when they suit your argument.
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Think about it.
My opinion is based on the facts as I know them.If I knew of facts that were at odds with my argument, I'd change my opinion wouldn't I?
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dave.woodhall: --- Quote from: Villadawg on March 13, 2011, 07:55:26 PM ---Pieces of information about real events that have happened or circumstances that exist. --- End quote ---And which mysteriously can only be found when they suit your argument.
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Think about it.
My opinion is based on the facts as I know them.If I knew of facts that were at odds with my argument, I'd change my opinion wouldn't I?
You say that many other clubs spent more than we did, yet when asked to provide proof you can't.
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Maybe dave, villadawg thinks that 2 clubs is many?
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dave.woodhall: --- -You say that many other clubs spent more than we did, yet when asked to provide proof you can't.
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I didn't say that, I asked a question; "How much time and money have Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City spent on building their squads compared to us?"
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Regarding the whole money/O'Neill thing. I still think he did a pretty good job. Yes there were mistakes, and had he bought a proper goalscorer and a classy attacking central midfielder instead of some others then things might have been different. However your talkinghere about achieving absolute perfection in the transfer market; you know the type of thing you do on championship manager, when you reboot the game after making a mess of it first time round!
I certainly don't deny that he had a lot of money to spend, however, I think the last couple of years have shown that you either have an absolutely humongous amount to spend a la City, or you spend a lot, and through speculation and sound management over the years make the transition a la Spurs (people need to realise that the timescale for this approach is ~10years though!).
Had O'Neill had more time and less pressure, maybe he could have achieved it, maybe not we'll never know now. The only thing that concerns me now is that what happens if Houllier walks next year, do we need to go through another heave and change of stlye when a new manager comes in. The one thing Spurs had for the majority of their transition was a DOF in place, so the recruitment approach was largely the same throughout. Managers came and went, but by and large their approach to signings was more or less the same (young talented up and coming players). Of course it looked like it wasn't working when Ramos was there and then they got Redknapp in and ditched the DOF. However, while Redknapp has done well, he pretty much had all the ingredients he needed there to make the top four.
The thing I feel we're crying out for is that bit of continuity. It may take time, it may even take a long time, as I think you also need o be lucky. For us to make it we're going to need one of Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea to fall off their perch. It might be tough to swallow, but we need to realise that it is not all within our control. We have to get to a good level and hang in there until an opportunity comes along. People will argue and maybe correctly that O'Neill missed some opportunities. Maybe Houllier will next year, who knows?What I do know is that we need this continuity in our approach and I fear that it is not there at the moment. Hopefully it's something that we can discover soon, as we're going to need it!
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dave.woodhall: --- Quote from: Villadawg on March 13, 2011, 07:55:26 PM ---Pieces of information about real events that have happened or circumstances that exist. --- End quote ---And which mysteriously can only be found when they suit your argument.
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Think about it.
My opinion is based on the facts as I know them.If I knew of facts that were at odds with my argument, I'd change my opinion wouldn't I?
Or:
You'd shop around for a (completely unverified) set of stats from that Swiss Rambler site or similar, and pass those of as facts when it suits your latest half baked theory.
The irony of your tagline is not lost on you yet I see.
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Oh lordy.
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dave.woodhall: --- -You say that many other clubs spent more than we did, yet when asked to provide proof you can't.
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I didn't say that, I asked a question; "How much time and money have Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and Man City spent on building their squads compared to us?"
I do love the way you claim to be asking a rhetorical question while at the same time making your own opinion (not fact - you still haven't provided any of them) quite clear.
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I need to see a set of Spurs accounts.
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That reminds me, I need to clean out my 12 gauge shotgun.
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The one thing MON had was respect of his players. Even ex-players came out and said they would have run through a brick wall for him. No, he did'nt get on with them all, but they seemed to play for him.
It's probably what's lacking in the current set up.
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The one thing MON had was respect of his players. Even ex-players came out and said they would have run through a brick wall for him. No, he did'nt get on with them all, but they seemed to play for him.
It's probably what's lacking in the current set up.
As Allan Evans said in his Sunday Times interview last week, you always respect the manager that signed you. The Chosen Few that were picked by MON week in, week out, certainly gave their all for him. For all his faults, he certainly got them motivated for every game. Not too sure what the rest of the squad thought of him though.
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Oh lordy.
...trouble so hard?
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Mon was a good motivator of his players , he had his favourites but he did seem to get players to play for him- I think houllier runs a far stricter regime now and some players have their noses out of joint .
Shape up or ship out - it's up to them!