Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dave Cooper please on November 24, 2010, 01:25:21 PM

Title: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 24, 2010, 01:25:21 PM
Did you see this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9221957.stm), two Real players were on yellows and if they had been booked in the last group game they would have missed the first knockout game, so, allegedly, they deliberately got themselves booked and sent off so they would miss the meaningless last group game.

Cheating? Poor gamesmanship? Clever thinking?

What do you reckon?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Concrete John on November 24, 2010, 01:27:51 PM
Bit of all three.  It's impossible top prove it was deliberate, so they'll get away with it.

If we were in that position I'd like Villa players to do the same.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: German James on November 24, 2010, 01:29:39 PM
If they really managed this deception, they will consider themselves cunning geniuses.
I think it would make them cheating scum and sadly typical of modern footballers.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Dan England on November 24, 2010, 01:33:44 PM
With the amount of money associated with progressing in the competition, players natural hunger to win the trophy, it makes perfect sense to do something like that.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Ad@m on November 24, 2010, 01:37:56 PM
Is it any different to what Beckham did for England in a Euro/World Cup qualifier against Wales a few years back?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Damo70 on November 24, 2010, 01:43:05 PM
Beckham did it a few years back to miss an England game against some minnows and be ready for a top of the group clash if I remember right. It's the clever thing to do, I thought it smacked of Mourinho but madrid did it last year too apparently. It made me laugh when Ramos shook the ref's hand for sending him off though.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 24, 2010, 01:46:04 PM
Roy Keane got himself booked (or maybe sent off) towards the end of a Republic game and when asked why he replied "Have you seen where we're playing next?" It's always happened, it always will.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 24, 2010, 01:46:50 PM
Personally I think the ref should have been wise to it and just pointed to his watch saying "we'll be here all night if you like but I'm not booking you". After all. it was 4-0, Ajax weren't going to stage a comeback.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: lovejoy on November 24, 2010, 02:04:20 PM
Just ban them from the knock out game. Simple.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: tim on November 24, 2010, 02:11:11 PM
It's dodgy but if the rules can be that easily bent, then there's nothing wrong with it. It can be done so why not take advantage..?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: timeoutbigbar on November 24, 2010, 02:15:41 PM
I've certainly heard of this happening before, though can't remember where.  Certainly not a new thing anyway.  Is there not a fine of any kind imposed as standard for a red card, or if a team generates a number of them throughout a competition?  I can't really see as there is much benefit to it really, surely in a game Real don't need anything from they could have just rested a couple of players.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: peter w on November 24, 2010, 02:21:41 PM
Steve Foster was trying to get himself sent-off at the end of the 82-83 season so he could play in the final. It was treated mostly as a comical thing to do and everyone seemed to sympathise. I've no problem with them doing it in this situation (Real Madrid) because there is nothing on their last game so may as well have their players suspended for that rather than a crucial tie.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: UK Redsox on November 24, 2010, 02:24:15 PM
Makes perfect sense to me. Good tactics
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: timeoutbigbar on November 24, 2010, 02:35:23 PM
I must be missing something then. which tends to happen alot.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Concrete John on November 24, 2010, 02:39:21 PM
I can't really see as there is much benefit to it really, surely in a game Real don't need anything from they could have just rested a couple of players.

I think the cards carry forward into the knock out games, so players still 'on a yellow' could miss future games if booked again.  By missing the pointless match the ban is served and they start from scratch in the knock out matches. 
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: darren woolley on November 24, 2010, 03:16:58 PM
It's wrong but what can the powers that be do they can't prove they went out to get themselves sent off.  I think they should be banned for the knockout game to teach them a lesson.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: pedro25 on November 24, 2010, 03:23:42 PM
Very wrong.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Charlie8182 on November 24, 2010, 03:48:55 PM
Quote
Steve Foster was trying to get himself sent-off at the end of the 82-83 season so he could play in the final. It was treated mostly as a comical thing to do and everyone seemed to sympathise. I've no problem with them doing it in this situation (Real Madrid) because there is nothing on their last game so may as well have their players suspended for that rather than a crucial tie.

I seem to remember this, he tried everything including ridiculous handballs but the ref wouldnt send him off!  Brighton did well in the final without him and drew 2-2 with Man U, and he eturned for the replay only lose 4-0.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Charlie8182 on November 24, 2010, 03:49:26 PM
Quote
Steve Foster was trying to get himself sent-off at the end of the 82-83 season so he could play in the final. It was treated mostly as a comical thing to do and everyone seemed to sympathise. I've no problem with them doing it in this situation (Real Madrid) because there is nothing on their last game so may as well have their players suspended for that rather than a crucial tie.

I seem to remember this, he tried everything to get sent off including ridiculous handballs but the ref wouldnt send him off!  Brighton did well in the final without him and drew 2-2 with Man U, and he returned for the replay only to lose 4-0.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Quiet Lion on November 24, 2010, 05:05:35 PM
Makes perfect sense to me. Good tactics

Yes it does.

Typical Mourhino scheme
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: olaftab on November 24, 2010, 06:03:06 PM
Cheating foriegn scum may be...  maybe no.  Mr Glenn Hoddle said that that was  a common thing to do in England when  bookings in reserve matches counted towards bans. First team players got themselves booked away from the glare of publicity. A change of rule  put a stop to that so players in PL have to be more careful.

Still having seen it I can not believe how blatant  Alonso and Ramos were!
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: eamonn on November 24, 2010, 06:14:24 PM
It would have been more clever/riskier if they had fouled to get booked.

Anyway, the real question, as Coops suggests is ''Is it 'sendings off' or 'sending offs'?'' Come on BE, sort it.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: The Man With A Stick on November 24, 2010, 06:22:06 PM
When Captain Golden Bollocks did it, he was being clever.  When Madrid players do it, they're cheating foreigners.  You can't have it both ways.

The only people it should concern are the other teams in that group, as Madrid playing a weakened team could have an effect on who finished third.  I can't see Auxerre getting anything there though.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: usav on November 24, 2010, 06:39:57 PM
It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: AV82EC on November 24, 2010, 06:44:31 PM
If I recall rightly Ugo kicked Robbie Fowler 10 feet up in the air to get a booking in a game against Liverpool we were losing 3-0 anyway so he would miss the next League game rather than the League Cup final against leeds.  Howver, I think Robbie was in on it as he certainly made the most of it and very sportingly shook hands with Ugo as soon as he was on his feet with a big grin on his face.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 24, 2010, 07:31:24 PM
It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

That's what she said.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Blackcountry Villa on November 24, 2010, 07:32:37 PM
Very clever thing to do imo.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Shrek on November 24, 2010, 07:37:13 PM
I say fair play. It's a stupid rule with the yellow cards, so fair game for getting around an unfair rule.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Dave on November 24, 2010, 07:58:57 PM
I say fair play. It's a stupid rule with the yellow cards, so fair game for getting around an unfair rule.
So timewasting shouldn't be a yellow card? Or that multiple yellow cards shouldn't result in a suspension?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: The Situation on November 24, 2010, 08:10:07 PM
It's called 'cheat to win', Mourinho thought it was in his best intrest to use that tactic but what he didn't do very well was giving out his instructions to Ramos and Alonso in how they should get sent off. Just go in and slide a player from behind, why make it so obvious with the tedious, timewasting tactics which they mornicially they did twice. It was so blatant.

It's not nice seeing things like this, it's quite sad that it was done but managers these days will do all sorts so they can wriggle past certain rules legally.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: olaftab on November 24, 2010, 08:24:49 PM
It would have been more clever/riskier if they had fouled to get booked.

Anyway, the real question, as Coops suggests is ''Is it 'sendings off' or 'sending offs'?'' Come on BE, sort it.

Neither or is it not either????? :-\ :'(
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Ad@m on November 24, 2010, 08:38:24 PM
I've just watched it on you tube and it's hilarious!  Alonso for just sheer ridiculousness, the numerous false starts in run-ups, the incredibly long run up in the first place; and Ramos for shaking the ref's hand for sending him off.

Brilliant!!
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: olaftab on November 24, 2010, 08:42:38 PM
 Yellow cards were a waste of time ...hahehaheeee
But really  what was the point as the side 4-0 up, with 10 mins to go and injury time,  wasting time so what?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on November 25, 2010, 01:42:16 AM
Was alll pre planned its to do with not being able to get suspended at a later stage. Was discussed by Rudi Hullit on a highlight show ......
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Summers on November 25, 2010, 02:26:29 AM
Very smart tactical move. I'm all for it.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: UK Redsox on November 25, 2010, 08:06:53 AM
Hopefully, one day soon, people will be moaning about Villa doing the same thing to avoid suspensions in the last 16 of the CL
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Bad English on November 25, 2010, 09:00:35 AM
You should all ask your daughterS-in-law or some passerS-by; then again, you could try random grown-upS, a couple of ten-year-oldS. You might get a few cop-outS but after numerous merry-go-roundS, you would eventually find, or even infer that these were sendingS-off.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 25, 2010, 09:45:50 AM
What if  two players or more from the same team raised their legs at the same time to control the ball which was heading for an opposition player's head.  Would that be given as a foul for ...

feets up
feet ups
feets ups

or would the ref not give a foul due to a potential grammatical inaccuracy?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on November 25, 2010, 10:20:54 AM
How many sugars does Mourinho take in his half time tea?

2 spoonfulls or 2 spoonsfull?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 25, 2010, 11:12:01 AM
You should all ask your daughterS-in-law or some passerS-by; then again, you could try random grown-upS, a couple of ten-year-oldS. You might get a few cop-outS but after numerous merry-go-roundS, you would eventually find, or even infer that these were sendingS-off.

Thank you!
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: lovejoy on November 25, 2010, 11:15:12 AM
Why do I get the impression if this was Zilina UEFA would throw the book at them but since its Madrid they will just change the rules in future?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Dave on November 25, 2010, 12:43:59 PM
How many sugars does Mourinho take in his half time tea?

2 spoonfulls or 2 spoonsfull?
Neither, he goes straight to the hard stuff and has three gins and tonic. Or three gin and tonics.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: The Left Side on November 25, 2010, 05:34:33 PM
Throw the book at them!
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Shrek on November 25, 2010, 05:37:01 PM
Mourinho, Alsonso, Ramos and both goalkeepers have been charged by uefa.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Surrey Villain on November 25, 2010, 06:54:57 PM
What if  two players or more from the same team raised their legs at the same time to control the ball which was heading for an opposition player's head.  Would that be given as a foul for ...

feets up
feet ups
feets ups

or would the ref not give a foul due to a potential grammatical inaccuracy?

None of these.  Feet up.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Chris Harte on November 26, 2010, 08:42:46 AM
The BBC's story about these red cards and the charges being brought also included a snippet about the manager of Cluj "going mental" and smashing up the dugout.

Sadly, it wasn't as mental as the story had portrayed.

Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: UK Redsox on November 26, 2010, 09:15:45 AM
Mourinho, Alsonso, Ramos and both goalkeepers have been charged by uefa.

I don;t agree with that. It was a smart tactical move by Jose.

Jose might be arrogant and act like he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but that's only because he IS the smartest guy in the room
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Bad English on November 26, 2010, 10:17:43 AM
What if  two players or more from the same team raised their legs at the same time to control the ball which was heading for an opposition player's head.  Would that be given as a foul for ...

feets up
feet ups
feets ups

or would the ref not give a foul due to a potential grammatical inaccuracy?

None of these.  Feet up.

Thanks for the heads-up!
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Olneythelonely on November 26, 2010, 10:24:55 AM
Mourinho, Alsonso, Ramos and both goalkeepers have been charged by uefa.

I don;t agree with that. It was a smart tactical move by Jose.

Jose might be arrogant and act like he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but that's only because he IS the smartest guy in the room

Doesn't stop him being a prick.

It's absolutely the correct decision to charge them, they should be banned for a few games.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Ad@m on November 26, 2010, 01:39:29 PM
Doesn't stop him being a prick.

It's absolutely the correct decision to charge them, they should be banned for a few games.

Behave!

The plonker in all of this is the referee.  Given how blatant it was the ref should have the limited common sense required to see what they were trying to do and not give it to them on a plate.  A simple stopping of his watch and a wave of play on was all that was needed.  He could then have put the incident in to his match report and let UEFA deal with the club.

I'd ban the ref before I banned the players or coaching staff.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Fergal on November 26, 2010, 01:46:21 PM
Roy Keane got himself booked (or maybe sent off) towards the end of a Republic game and when asked why he replied "Have you seen where we're playing next?" It's always happened, it always will.
That was classic.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: PaulTheVillan on November 26, 2010, 02:34:20 PM
Didn't Beckham do something similar for England once?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: WALTERS WARRIORS on November 27, 2010, 11:32:53 AM
Fairplay Jose. Looked terrible but highly entertaining. The most influential manager in the last 10 years ..........
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: Holtenderinthesky on November 29, 2010, 03:16:24 PM
Didn't Beckham do something similar for England once?

Yes.  He got a deliberate yellow vs Wales in a qualifier for the same reasons as the Madrid players;  To miss the next game.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: peter w on November 29, 2010, 03:31:10 PM
Mourinho, Alsonso, Ramos and both goalkeepers have been charged by uefa.

I don;t agree with that. It was a smart tactical move by Jose.

Jose might be arrogant and act like he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but that's only because he IS the smartest guy in the room

You in a room with him as you type UK?
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: LeeB on November 29, 2010, 05:57:16 PM
Roy Keane got himself booked (or maybe sent off) towards the end of a Republic game and when asked why he replied "Have you seen where we're playing next?" It's always happened, it always will.

Andy Townsend was saying on Talkshite last year how Dalian was whooping in the shower after a game because he'd managed to get himself suspended for a Boxing day fixture.
Title: Re: 0% Villa - The Real Madrid sending offs (sendings off?)
Post by: The Left Side on November 29, 2010, 06:31:13 PM
I remember that rumour about sicknote getting himself suspended over christmas, I also remember a midweek game around that time against Southampton when we lost 1-0. The game was almost called off because of snow,  I heard that Atkinson and McGrath were in Rosie's on Solihull the night before thinking the game would be postponed, during the game they were all over the place.
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