Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: rutski on November 06, 2010, 10:10:41 PM
-
The performances of our youth over the last few games have been great, however i feel you are putting too much emphasis on how much this crop of youngsters can achieve without the big name signings and big name squad players we have to make an impact!
I love Albrighton, Bannon is making great strides in parts of the game and clark looks as composed as Barry did some 10 years ago, but if we rely on these players we will suffer the same fate as 25years ago.
They need to be introduced with better players and it is alright saying if we dont try them how will we know, well look at cahill, davis, ridgewell, moore and moore. We would have gone down if they had been mainstays of the team 4 years ago!
These players need to be led into the premiership instead of a battle which we, i know lots dont believe, we are in! I think we look like a club in a little bit of shit!
-
I don't think we need to rely solely on them, but they will supplement some quality additions. Once those quality additions come in, the young players will improve with them and they're already showing real quality.
-
I don't think we need to rely solely on them, but they will supplement some quality additions. Once those quality additions come in, the young players will improve with them and they're already showing real quality.
I've seen more skill, guile and composure from Clark and Bannan in 120 minutes of football than I've seen from any midfield players at the club for about 10 years.
-
The trouble is that, given the amount we have spent over the last 4 seasons, the quality players should already be there. We should be in the position where our very promising youngsters are adding to an already quality squad. We have some, but too many passengers.
-
The squad needs an overhaul to be honest and we need to find a balance of experience and youth. The summer is going to be huge for us.
-
This is a pretty rubbish post tbh. Clark, Albrighton and Bannan were probably our 3 best players today and the fonz did well playing up front on his own in his first ever premier league start.
The biggest problem for the kids is that albrighton and clark should have 20-30 more starts each but Mon under played them. This is biting us in the ass now we've got a big injury list because for all the natural talent they are still a bit green in terms of professionalism (perfectly explained by the foul that led to fulham's goal).
Yes we need to improve the squad with established players but none of those 4 should be the ones making way. Add in Gardner, Lichaj and Delph and we've got the makings of a truly awesome young side, a year in midtable this season (which wouldn't be shocking given the timing of mon's departure) will only be acceptable if each of these kids has 15+ starts to their name by the summer, we've long lauded our youth and reserves, lets show that the system works by producing players capable of making the step up.
-
The biggest problem for the kids is that albrighton and clark should have 20-30 more starts each but Mon under played them. This is biting us in the ass now we've got a big injury list because for all the natural talent they are still a bit green in terms of professionalism (perfectly explained by the foul that led to fulham's goal).
There are not many managers including the likes of Fergie who has 20-21 year olds with 30 odd starts. They played in cups with the occasional league appearance the same as most kids come through.
-
It's not Clark, Albrighton, Bannan and Delfouneso that are our problem... It is the senior players. Some of these senior pros have let us down time and again. Some of them are still getting into the team now for Christ's sake. If we have the money to invest and GHou does so wisely then we are looking good.
-
I don't think we need to rely solely on them, but they will supplement some quality additions. Once those quality additions come in, the young players will improve with them and they're already showing real quality.
I've seen more skill, guile and composure from Clark and Bannan in 120 minutes of football than I've seen from any midfield players at the club for about 10 years.
I agree. They've shown real promise.
-
What's even more annoying is that MON never gave them a chance over the last year or so, meaning that they are having to be thrown in at the deep end. It's to their credit that they did so well today.
-
This is a pretty rubbish post tbh. Clark, Albrighton and Bannan were probably our 3 best players today and the fonz did well playing up front on his own in his first ever premier league start.
The biggest problem for the kids is that albrighton and clark should have 20-30 more starts each but Mon under played them. This is biting us in the ass now we've got a big injury list because for all the natural talent they are still a bit green in terms of professionalism (perfectly explained by the foul that led to fulham's goal).
Yes we need to improve the squad with established players but none of those 4 should be the ones making way. Add in Gardner, Lichaj and Delph and we've got the makings of a truly awesome young side, a year in midtable this season (which wouldn't be shocking given the timing of mon's departure) will only be acceptable if each of these kids has 15+ starts to their name by the summer, we've long lauded our youth and reserves, lets show that the system works by producing players capable of making the step up.
thanks for your acknowlegement of said post but put birch, bradley,glover,kerr, ormsby and walker in with seasoned pros and not the addition of top players we all know where that leads us!
I am not bemoaning their talent, i am saying if we put too much faith in these youngsters we will be in the mire!
-
It's alright saying they should be put in with experienced players, but short of wheeling them onto the pitch we don't have much option.
-
I think most Villa watchers recognise that the team built by Martin O'Neill is pretty much over. This to me means that we're at the beginning of a rebuilding job rather than having a largely complete squad to augment with youth. It appears that youth is going to be a big part of this new squad and if that means a season or two kicking around the middle of the league while the squad is rebuilt and the younger players cement their places then there's not a lot you can do about that.
-
We've paid badly for the last few years of not building the squad's depth properly. Fortunately the youngsters coming through are helping make that mistake less costly, but it needs to be addressed.
-
The biggest problem for the kids is that albrighton and clark should have 20-30 more starts each but Mon under played them. This is biting us in the ass now we've got a big injury list because for all the natural talent they are still a bit green in terms of professionalism (perfectly explained by the foul that led to fulham's goal).
There are not many managers including the likes of Fergie who has 20-21 year olds with 30 odd starts. They played in cups with the occasional league appearance the same as most kids come through.
The problem is we don't have much choice. The reality is there were times last season when albrighton at least should have been given starts ahead of young and downing, when both of them were out on their feet and completely ineffective. Ditto Fonz getting games ahead of gabby. Bannan was out on loan so can't count him and Clark is probably just unlucky that Collins, Dunne and Cuellar were all on top form for most of the season (when playing central in cuellar's case). Delph should have 15-20 starts by now but was massively underused as well before his injury.
-
I think most Villa watchers recognise that the team built by Martin O'Neill is pretty much over. This to me means that we're at the beginning of a rebuilding job rather than having a largely complete squad to augment with youth. It appears that youth is going to be a big part of this new squad and if that means a season or two kicking around the middle of the league while the squad is rebuilt and the younger players cement their places then there's not a lot you can do about that.
this is the main point i think the summer will see a lot of activity A Young sidwell Carew + a few more i guess
-
you won't win anything with kids
-
you won't win anything with kids
We don't win anything with older kids either.
-
you won't win anything with kids
you wont win anything with sidwell carew the new ashley young an ageing petrov ect
-
Well, if we're rolling out the cliches, if you're good enough then you're old enough.
-
What is a reasonable, sustainable amount that villa can spend on players each year? My guess is about £20m plus any income from sales.
The emergence of these players will mean that the spend is spread across two/three players rather than maybe five or six.
I do not see how their impressive strides cannot be good news.
-
HouLlier has had a good look at the young players and has some real quality coming through, Clark could be huge for this club I feel.
We are not in the shit results wise , if we had held on a minute more we would have been equal with spurs on points in joint 5th- we just need to try and pick up what we can until January.
I think there will be more deals done in january than gerard would have liked but he has seen the squad is weak and needs new signings, and I'm sure in summer we will have an exciting window for a change.
Davies, sidwell and Carew will surely be gone and I wouldn't totally be shocked to see ash sold to Liverpool in January- they have the money and he doesn't seem to want to sign a new deal , so let's cash in and rebuild.
-
Oneill bought players to play his brand of football, it will take a while to get the type of players needed to
move us on.
-
It is the major issue Robbo. MON bought some shocking players for the money, and now GH has to sort that out, add depth and quality without forgetting that Clark looks in 2 games a better holding mid than Petrov has for 18 months, Bannan passes the ball better than Sidwell ever has and Albrighton is just about as good a right winger as there is in the league right now. If only we had a couple of young full backs and a beast of a forward too, although I think if the Fonz is getting chances, once a couple go in they will keep doing so, that first few goals are the hard part.
-
I think of the current squad of players we have, the only ones who will still be in our squad next season will be -
Friedel (As back up)
L.Young
Warnock
Downing
Ireland
Agbonlahor
Albrighton
Delfouenso
Delph
Heskey
Petrov
Reo-Coker
Clark
Collins
Bannan
Wiemann
Gardner
Lichaj
So we will have one hell of a squad overhaul, and I can't wait!
-
I don't think Reo-Coker will still be here next season. He has the chance to move on a Bosman and you can never underestimate the greed of the modern footballer. I also think he may find himself out of the side after the Jan sales, which will hasten his departure.
-
Hasn't the manager already stated that they're won't be much business done in January. If that's the case, better hope we can get some of these long term injuries sorted, so we can at least tread water until the summer.
-
Bannan or Sidwell? Sidwell or Clark? No brainer every time for me, I don't think anyone is putting all our faith in these kids but I think at the moment we have no choice
-
Hasn't the manager already stated that they're won't be much business done in January. If that's the case, better hope we can get some of these long term injuries sorted, so we can at least tread water until the summer.
he said he prefers dealing in summer but he will bring in players in january if he can improve the side- most teams dont like to sell in january but id expect at least 2 or 3 coming in that month.
-
Not deluded just hopeful as us fans always are.
-
you won't win anything with kids
We don't win anything with older kids either.
I said this with tongue in cheek. I am delighted that we started with 4 kids in the team yesterday
-
you won't win anything with kids
We don't win anything with older kids either.
I said this with tongue in cheek. I am delighted that we started with 4 kids in the team yesterday
It probably doesn't need saying, but ditto!
-
I don't think we need to rely solely on them, but they will supplement some quality additions. Once those quality additions come in, the young players will improve with them and they're already showing real quality.
Add desire to that list of attributes.
I've seen more skill, guile and composure from Clark and Bannan in 120 minutes of football than I've seen from any midfield players at the club for about 10 years.
I agree. They've shown real promise.
-
I am looking forward to the transfer window to see who GH bring's in i think two or three player's will arrive i have faith in the kids aswell they are looking good for the future and we still have Delph and Gardner to come back yet onwards and upwards i say.
-
Well, if we're rolling out the cliches, if you're good enough then you're old enough.
They play without fear.
-
I might be getting on in years (still have memories of the 3rd Division days)
but don't consider myself deluded -
What I do know is that I have more faith in Marc Barry & Ciaran than
most of the senior players brought here in the last 4/5 seasons.........
Maybe it's because I consider there lads to be 'ours' as opposed
to players like Downing & Ireland who have cost us millions but
have yet to repay us
-
I think most Villa watchers recognise that the team built by Martin O'Neill is pretty much over.
We are now seeing the effect of O'Neill's transfer policy. He stopped buying for the future and started buying for the present. The turning point was when he bought Heskey. After that, with the exception of Delph, it was all about maintaining top six position in the league. He lost the belief and the ambition.
We are now left with an ageing squad and having to rely on youngsters. Thankfully, the young players are performing well, especially considering their lack of 1st team experience.
-
I think most Villa watchers recognise that the team built by Martin O'Neill is pretty much over.
We are now seeing the effect of O'Neill's transfer policy. He stopped buying for the future and started buying for the present. The turning point was when he bought Heskey. After that, with the exception of Delph, it was all about maintaining top six position in the league. He lost the belief and the ambition.
We are now left with an ageing squad and having to rely on youngsters. Thankfully, the young players are performing well, especially considering their lack of 1st team experience.
It is a bit of a mess, there are too many players in a comfort zone Dunne Warnock Downing L Young Petrov, then A Young who is playing for his next move, Carew on his way, so no surprise that the kids that are hungry are having a real go
-
I think most Villa watchers recognise that the team built by Martin O'Neill is pretty much over.
We are now seeing the effect of O'Neill's transfer policy. He stopped buying for the future and started buying for the present. The turning point was when he bought Heskey. After that, with the exception of Delph, it was all about maintaining top six position in the league. He lost the belief and the ambition.
We are now left with an ageing squad and having to rely on youngsters. Thankfully, the young players are performing well, especially considering their lack of 1st team experience.
It is a bit of a mess, there are too many players in a comfort zone Dunne Warnock Downing L Young Petrov, then A Young who is playing for his next move, Carew on his way, so no surprise that the kids that are hungry are having a real go
None of them are as hungry as Richard Dunne.
-
Very little choice until January, given the injury list and some of the woeful purchases of the previous manager. Apart from Bouma and Delph I can't remember too many bad injuries under O'Neill, and he did seem very fortunate in not having too many key players out at any one time. We do need a couple in in January, though as we desperatley need some goals from somewhere.
-
I think most Villa watchers recognise that the team built by Martin O'Neill is pretty much over.
We are now seeing the effect of O'Neill's transfer policy. He stopped buying for the future and started buying for the present. The turning point was when he bought Heskey. After that, with the exception of Delph, it was all about maintaining top six position in the league. He lost the belief and the ambition.
We are now left with an ageing squad and having to rely on youngsters. Thankfully, the young players are performing well, especially considering their lack of 1st team experience.
It is a bit of a mess, there are too many players in a comfort zone Dunne Warnock Downing L Young Petrov, then A Young who is playing for his next move, Carew on his way, so no surprise that the kids that are hungry are having a real go
None of them are as hungry as Richard Dunne.
i dont think he skips too many meals
-
I thought Clark, Bannan and Albrighton were very good. Never really been impressed with Delfouneso, hopefully he'll be on the scoresheet v Blackpool and take his chance.
-
I think most Villa watchers recognise that the team built by Martin O'Neill is pretty much over.
We are now seeing the effect of O'Neill's transfer policy. He stopped buying for the future and started buying for the present. The turning point was when he bought Heskey. After that, with the exception of Delph, it was all about maintaining top six position in the league. He lost the belief and the ambition.
We are now left with an ageing squad and having to rely on youngsters. Thankfully, the young players are performing well, especially considering their lack of 1st team experience.
It is a bit of a mess, there are too many players in a comfort zone Dunne Warnock Downing L Young Petrov, then A Young who is playing for his next move, Carew on his way, so no surprise that the kids that are hungry are having a real go
Exactly, what we are seeing is that these kids are capable of being part of the squad and playing when selected. What we need to do is "upgrade" Carew, Heskey, Sidwell, Petrov, Reo-Coker with better players so that the squad is stronger all round and the kids can continue to improve surrounded by classier players.
-
you won't win anything with kids
The thing about this was that Hansen was actually right. That Man U side of 95/96 alaso had the likes of Schimichael, Keane, Pallister, Irwin, Catona and Cole. It was an already very good side that Fergie brought he kids into.
So that's what we should also be doing. Filtering the likes of Bannan Clarke and Albrighton in around our established players.
Plus hopefully a few signings, of course.
-
Well, if we're rolling out the cliches, if you're good enough then you're old enough.
They play without fear.
If there's grass on the pitch
-
Hansen was right, up to a point, when he said that you don't win anything with kids. Its easy to forget that that Man United team that he was referring to had some great youth players coming through but also that the team had a very experienced spine. From Schmeichel in goal, Bruce and Pallister at the back, Keane and McClair in midfield, and Cantona and the experienced Cole up front. Their brilliant youngsters were allowed then to go and play knowing that the experienced players would and could carry them through the odd poor day at teh office.
For us its different. The spine itself is fine, but you wouldn't want to give Clark, Bannan, and Albrighton too many starts at the moment in the same team, without someone like Petrov next to them. The problem is that the balance of the team is effected then. Reo-Coker has been made captain and yet Houllier will probably find out over the next few months that he isn't what we need in the midfield. (Arguably) He is right now as we are short of numbers but when he went off on Saturday the midfield came alive and started to pass the ball around beautifully.
The main difference is that our kids aren't fringe players but team fillers at the moment. It may be that in a few years they will be the ones that are expected to win games for us, but until we can get experience next to them to guide them through difficult spells, then we run the risk over over-exposure at too early an age.
-
The young boys are in on merit, Sidwell and Ireland cost a combined £13 mill and must be on around a combined £110k per week, and were both available on Sat. These young boys are by no means the only options available to us, Osbourne and Salifou are another 2 more experienced players available, so that's 4 more established players available and yet Clark and Bannan have made themselves undroppable with their application and form.
-
Well yes and no. Horses for courses and all that but you have to have the right players to fit the team. Just because they're older you wouldn't play certain players ahead of others. Form dictates a lot also.
-
In fairness the central midfield options were quite limited with a few injuries.
Remember Gardner was sold and not replaced, Salifou and Osbourne are still somehow here but aren't options, Sidwell will be gone in January and NRC has 6 months to run on his contract which isn't a healthy situation for the club. We've been lucky last season that Petrov and Milner were never injured.
I think we will see some signings in January and remember in January 2007 we signed Young and Carew which started our forward progress under the previous manager so I'm hoping GH will come up with something similar.