Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Cuellar Boo Ya on October 31, 2010, 03:48:53 PM
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Is it me or do some of our players not look interested in playing for the club? Today it was evident that Ashley Young is not interested in staying with the club, and will walk away for very little money in the summer. He was very average today, did no work off the ball and could have been the difference between the sides had he looked for the ball more and put a bit more effort in. When he did have a go he hit the bar/post.
Reo Coker, and Sidwell are not good enough for a team like us, they're lower half of the table players who aren't capable of doing anything apart from putting the opposition off their game, I really don't want to see us turn into a spoiling team whose sole goal is stopping better players from playing. Today we tried to win the midfield battle not by playing football but by stopping Hleb and Ferguson from playing; surely that is not the villa way and it isn't what I want to see. Have we really sunk so low that we have to try and kick the noses off the park rather than out football them, it's worrying and a better side than the blose would have punished us for going in with those kind of tactics.
Downing is looking worse and worse with every game. That bald thug they have at right back is probably their weak link yet Downing did nothing against him all game. Again I find this worrying.
For the first 65 mins of the game today we were out thought and out footballed by a team we should be battering, it was only when young bannan came on and actually put his foot on the ball that we started to look like having a chance of doing anything.
We were lucky to get a point today and I feel we won't continue to be lucky like that for much longer, something has to change or we could be in risk of facing disaster this season. What has really worried me today is not the result, but the way we went about the game, the style of play we tried. I hate to say it but the blose tried to play football, we tried to spoil the game and hoof it.
Thoughts?
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I don't think we were lucky to get a point, we came the closest to scoring. However we were too negative and hopefully GH realises that. When we have Gabby, Petrov, Albrighton, Delph back we will be much better. Also once Houllier has been able to get some of his own players in, we will be much improved. On the one hand we are 3 points off the bottom 3, but I think we are only 3 off 5th. So not panic yet.
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You're over-reacting. We've got injuries and suspensions, a relatively new manager, and that was a local derby against the most disgusting bunch of swamp-dwellers you're ever likely to encounter. We won't be finishing in the top six, that's for sure, but big big trouble? No.
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Don't think we are in big trouble at all, we didn't have one of our best players of the season in Albrighton, we are missing Gabby badly, when he gets back teams will have to sit off and will not be able to put as much pressure on us because of his pace like the blues did today with Carr and ridgewell both pushing on. They definitely wouldn't be able to do that with Gabby playing.
Downing didn't have his best game today, but say he's getting worse with every game is rubbish. He changed the game on Wednesday when he come on and has looked dangerous in quite a few other games.
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We got a draw against the blose - it is really not the end of the world.
Yes, we haven't won in 5, yes we're not scoring goals... but all that will come soon, it can't go on for much longer. However, I do think our defensive tactics against a team like Birmingham was silly.
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the bloke is doing the best with what we have got. GH isnt the only manager who doesnt appear to rate Delfouneso you know. We have a small squad decimated by poor form (ireland, carew, dunne, sidwell) and injuries (gabby, delph. petrov) add in a suspension (albrighton) and what you have is a pretty average side. His way out of this is to set us up not to lose games and hope to nick a goal - for all their bravado that they were better team today - blues look equally as anaemic up front and thats with their first X1.
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The point about Ash not looking interested is utter nonsense, before the game he went upto everyone of our players geeing them up, he's been here long enough to know what these games mean and are all about, he had an average game indeed but looked as hungry as ever
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I disagree that we're in big trouble. We gave a Blues too much respect and our battling central midfield do not have the guile or composure against and team let alone in a hurly burly derby.
We are (still) a central midfielder and striker away from top 4.
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Drink some milk and go to bed.
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I did'nt think that Bannan had that big an impact tbh.What it did show was that we should have had a footballer on , in the middle of the park from the start.Asley or Ireland should have played behind Heskey from the start, he was completely isolated, partic in the 1st half.Ash and Downing wre starved of any real quality service, not until the last minute did Ash get the ball in a 1 on 1 situation with Ridgewell.......not good enough.
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It will take at least a year before GED gets the team as he wants it- there are several average players here that he will root out- I think ash will go as he seems to have had his head turned - I think 2 quality strikers and a creative midfielder are top priorities for us - yes gabby will improve the team but he is far from a prolific finisher himself.
There is a lot of work to be done here and we will need to be patient- however Ireland would have been a better bet than sidwell today and we were too negative without doubt.
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I must have watched a different game. Young looked well up for it. Didnt work out for him today but always tried to get on the ball...
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Christ. Good job we didn't lose.
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I must have watched a different game. Young looked well up for it. Didnt work out for him today but always tried to get on the ball...
I thought when they had there best spell they noticed that Young wasnt covering the left back and attacked down there and Young diddnt do anything to get back and did too much every time, thought he was pretty shocking today. When he wanted to he looked lively and hit the post. That was it, diddnt get crosses in wasnt beating his man or when he did he turned and let him back in, totally frustrating!
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There's a lot of over-reaction. We're without our best striker and, whatever we think of his ability, our team captain. We were left in the drink by MON.
I have faith that GH will get it right.
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Where I thought we blew it was in not getting AY and Downing wide onto their fullbacks; the weak links in their defence.
We're not in big trouble, but the absence of goals is troubling.
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We are not in trouble, but we are most definitely going through a period of transition, in which we may have to take a step back before moving forward again.
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They had more possesion, more shots on, more shots off. But we had the better chances, but same old not putting them away!
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I am not worried i mean we did'nt play that well by our standard's but i think GH will get it right.
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We are in big big big trouble (reading posts like yours) Get your commensense head on lad
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This was always going to be a transitional season. Like the first of MONs reign.
We are not going to finish in the top 6 but how are we expected too when we've lost our best player (Milner) and our manager a few days before the start of the season?
We've got to take it on the chin me thinks. A season of mid-table and Houllier working out what he needs and what he doesn't need is going to take at least this season. We'll move in the right direction, but it can't happen overnight.
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This should be re-named the over reacting thread, Some of the comments made on the radio on the way home were completely OTT, Someone saying Houllier should go back to france, if it hadn't been an 0845 number I would have called in and called that franksy a twat with his anti Villa comments.
I don't think we were negative problem is their team is full of hard players, such as G*rdner & Ferguson and Ireland & Ireland, Sidwell would have been bullied that's why he put Clarke in and he did well in my opinion. There should have been enough attacking with Young & Dowining but what actually happened is both midfields cancelled each other out. With the exception of the 5-1 the blues games have always been shit
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We're not in big trouble. Accept this season as a period of transition where we will take a step back which will allow us to stride forward in the future.
Rather than moan, I'm trying to take pleasure from the emergence of Albrighton, Clark and Bannan. It's great that our youth system is paying off and hopefully their success will allow us to buy fewer but better players in the future.
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We're not in big trouble. Accept this season as a period of transition where we will take a step back which will allow us to stride forward in the future.
Rather than moan, I'm trying to take pleasure from the emergence of Albrighton, Clark and Bannan. It's great that our youth system is paying off and hopefully their success will allow us to buy fewer but better players in the future.
Good post. I do however believe that Ash needs to be more productive. I haven't seen him win a game for us yet a la Heskey. I do think that a Gabby, Ireland, Ash combo will pay dividends next year.
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Given that we're likely to have trouble scoring goals at least until January and we are also short on class and options in central midfield I think it is quite possible that we are going to have a very difficult season.
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I think “cueller boo ya” has made some valid points, and whilst generally criticised on this web site reflects the views of the villa fans that I know and the comments I heard in the pub after the game. 4-5-1 with heskey up front; at home, against sub standard opposition, god help us. The real bonus this season is the emergence of bannon, clark, and albrighton, whom I hope GH will maintain faith in. It is to the bosses credit that he is playing the young lads.
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Downing is looking worse and worse with every game. That bald thug they have at right back is probably their weak link yet Downing did nothing against him all game. Again I find this worrying.
Is this the Downing that for most of the time I had a stream was playing on the right against their left back.
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What game were you watching? Cos it certainly wasn't the game that I saw. The filth's one and only tactic was to hoof it upfield to tht lanky useless bastard that they have. I agree that Sidwell was shite but Reo put a shift in. As did Ashley Young. OK Young had a stinker, his passing in particular was woeful and this stupid habit of his to try and beat everyone on the field drove me bananas but fuck me everyone has a stinker every now and then and the one thing I will say in his defence is that he did not give up and go hiding behind the opposition. How you can accuse him of not trying is beyond me. Get a grip.
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Was poor for the first 70 mins today, only after this did we start to take the game to them. NRC put a shift in and had very little support from Sidwell who whilst doing quite a lot of running about, non of it was productive and of any use at all. It was only in the last few minutes that Ash decided to take people on, and look what happened when he did, nearly scoring. Desparately missing Gabby at the mo, though if we had played with width this would have created more room in the centre of the pitch to play off Heskey.
Was also worried about how slow and unfit Dunne looked, though Cuellar did well against Burnley and should be partnering Collins.
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Why can't people accept that we were shit.....simple as!! :(
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Why can't people accept that we were shit.....simple as!! :(
Then there would be no message board.
WE could just have a poll with the options:
We was shit
Was oroit
We was groit
Simple as.
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Why can't people accept that we were shit.....simple as!! :(
Then there would be no message board.
WE could just have a poll with the options:
We was shit
Was oroit
We was groit
Simple as.
haha - like it
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I honestly don't get Young in the "free" role.
He hit a nice early ball to Heskey early on but apart from that did next to nothing and seemed intent on pissing around with the ball trying to beat men rather than release quickly which you need to do in the free role.
When he was moved out wide in the last ten minutes he had that good run and shot so I'd prefer to see him go out back wide.
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If 'Big Big trouble' means we will be fighting relegation - then probably not. If it means we've got no chance of ending in the top half of the table ... then yes, we're in big big trouble!!
Hopefully only this season though.
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Ash done ok I thought, problem was we had very little opportunity to get the ball to him where he can cause problems. It made it worse that Lionel Heskey was so isolated.
Clark was excellent I thought, and as we were struggling to retain the ball I would have asked Reo-Coker to sit with him and then bring Ash inside, problem was we didn't really then have a wide player as such (unless Bannan had gone wide)
You have to give McLeish credit, they were well organised and knew how to stop us, not only that once they saw off the first 20 minutes they gained confidence and kept the ball better. Both teams hoofed it up their lone donkeys but they seemed to support their donkey than we did.
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This is McLeish's fourth season with them. His team, his players, his tactics. He knows this is as good as it gets for them, he doesn't have to re-build or experiment. Everything's settled. It was Gerard's second league home game. He's still learning.
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People seem to be critising the formation, saying it is too negative for a home match vs Brum. I personally disagree, the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 is just how they line up, primarily defensively. The intent of the team decides whether it is an attacking formation or not.
A 4-4-2 can be just as defensive if the midfielders never overlap or go past the forwards. I actually think a 4-2-3-1 is more attacking as the two midfielders should allow the front four to play with greater freedom.
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Ive criticised Young in the past but the only criticism i have of him yesterday is that he tried to do too much. H was tho only player that tried to make things happen and to say he wasn't interested is a load of bollocks.
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This is McLeish's fourth season with them. His team, his players, his tactics. He knows this is as good as it gets for them, he doesn't have to re-build or experiment. Everything's settled. It was Gerard's second league home game. He's still learning.
This is spot on for me re the Rags game.
And we are not in big trouble for McGraths sake. Due to various events, we've found ourselves with a less capable team and squad from last year and a new Manager bedding himself and his ideas in place - we'll have some disappointing results, we'll have some surprising results it'll all be part of the re-shaping for the team which will take time. Until then I expect us to be mid-table and nothing more. Above all, we need to be patient.
We need to forget what we had before - good or bad it's gone. We need to build again to something more sustainable than we had under MON.
This will come from this crop of exciting young players we have at the club and GH showing us what we missed in the transfer market under MON - namely some decent foreign talent.
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Thoughts?
You're talking rubbish.
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Why can't people accept that we were shit.....simple as!! :(
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what planet are you on? were not shit,this is going to be a season of transition,accept it. the messiah oneil has left us in the shit.gh has been bought in to sort it out,its gonna take time.
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Knee jerk.
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watching the team yesterday was a bit disapointing though,
i know we had a few out, but what we had out there was very average,
i know i'm using the average word a lot, but it best describes a lot and i mean a lot of our players,
all the strikers are pretty much average, some less so, midfield same,
NRC was our best player yesterday, and that just about sums it up, a player that wouldnt stand an earthly of getting into a good top 6 side, is our standout player.
Downing, totaly pissed of with him, calling him average is being kind,
and Sidwell is right up there with Nigel Callaghan and Cascarino as one of the worst players ever to play for us
the defence is our saving grace, as we do seem to have some competent players in that department.
i was finding myself hating MON yesterday for leaving us with such a useless shower, really hope GH has some new players up his sleeve,
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People seem to be critising the formation, saying it is too negative for a home match vs Brum. I personally disagree, the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 is just how they line up, primarily defensively. The intent of the team decides whether it is an attacking formation or not.
A 4-4-2 can be just as defensive if the midfielders never overlap or go past the forwards. I actually think a 4-2-3-1 is more attacking as the two midfielders should allow the front four to play with greater freedom.
I think it's more a matter of personel than intent as to whether it's attacking or not. What you need is players who can and will get forward, support the lone striker and score/create. When playing Ash, Downing and Albrighton we have that, seeing a central three of NRC, Sidwell and Clarke however is quite defensive. I think where we're failing at the moment is not getting a 2nd player into the box quick enough to get on the end of things. That should be either Ash, who is normally involved in the build up play or Ireland, who isn't quite at the races yet. Only player to really have a go and get in there off the ball so far is Downing and he's got a few goals to show for it!
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The squad needed a shake up in the summer. The type where you dont have to spend millions just juggle around with what you've got. Sell Curtis Davis, Sidwell, Milner and buy 2 or 3 more just to liven things up. We didn't so we are whole summer behind our rivals.
MON did a great job for 3 seasons, thanks. But he didn't have the ability or motivation to finish/continue the job so we are now left with a new guy picking up the pieces. We'll be fine in the long run.
I still believe a big factor is the Man Citeh dosh. Put Barry and JM back in the squad and we are so much better.
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Sell Curtis Davis, Sidwell, Milner and buy 2 or 3 more just to liven things up.
Errr I think we already have ?
I think he was playing for some team losing at Wolves on the weekend.
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Sell Curtis Davis, Sidwell, Milner and buy 2 or 3 more just to liven things up.
Errr I think we already have ?
I think he was playing for some team losing at Wolves on the weekend.
I was speculating in the context of what we should have done in the summer or before the season started.
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People seem to be critising the formation, saying it is too negative for a home match vs Brum. I personally disagree, the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 is just how they line up, primarily defensively. The intent of the team decides whether it is an attacking formation or not.
A 4-4-2 can be just as defensive if the midfielders never overlap or go past the forwards. I actually think a 4-2-3-1 is more attacking as the two midfielders should allow the front four to play with greater freedom.
I disagree, it was embarassingly negative, Heskey worked like a trojan up front but received very little support. We appeared scared of losing, as did Blues but that's the way they play, I don't want my team to play like that. There was an incident in the second half where Warnock could of overlapped Young to get a cross in but put the brakes on almost like he was attached to a rope, that must come from the manager.
The cup game might as well go straight to penalties cos it's going to be exactly the same, I hope we are practising them.
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Thoughts?
I'm seeing exactly what I thought we'd see this first half of the season, and I'm not alone in that: a team that needs two or three new, top quality players and, because of unexpected events this summer, has been unable to do that and is having to repair itself somewhat. We've a new manager who is assessing his squad until the transfer window opens so, in that regard, we're in something of a mini-transitional period.
Our form is not great and we need to start winning again. But we really could and should have beaten Chelsea, given the chances we created and missed, should have got at least a point at Sunderland and could have nicked it yesterday. Always going to be a tough game, a point in a derby is never a bad thing. Yes, they're a horrible bunch but Blues are a decent side these days.
As for players... I prefer to look at the positives. We have players who were destined to leave in the summer who have stayed and fought for the shirt and a future at the club: Luke Young and Reo-Coker have been strong players so far. Players who were poor last season who have really responded and stepped up their performances: Heskey and Downing. And young players who would barely have got a look-in under MON who are now making positive contributions: Clark, Albrighton, Bannan and Lichaj.
I just don't see a bunch of uninterested players. I do see a squad of mostly revitalised players, while recognising we are slightly short in number and quality. The manager hasn't had a change to remedy that yet. But I have a confidence in him to do that which I don't believe I'd have had if MON was still here.
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If the team had been set up to get into scoring positions, to help the limited strike force we had rather than to get men behind the ball I'd be more pleased.
It was Blues at home after all
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Given the awful starts to the season that Everton and Liverpool have had, it's a bit sad that we're now below them both in the table.
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Given the awful starts to the season that Everton and Liverpool have had, it's a bit sad that we're now below them both in the table.
It's early enough in the season that 1 or 2 results can change your position dramatically. Without checking I think we're only 3 points off 5th place, so an upturn in our form (and we're not actually playing all that badly) will see us climb the table quite quickly.
I'm not worried.
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Milner, Petrov and Gabby were really important players for us last season and at present the manager is having to do without all 3. The players are having to adapt to his methods while he gets to know what they can and can't do. I've said since he came that the first part of the season will just be about trying to get by, with the hope that we can kick on in the new year with the impetus of a couple of new signings.
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Given we played Burnley with no strikers, Blues with one striker but no support, what tactics are we going to play against Man U and Arsenal at home.
How about a midfield 3 of Clark, Cuellar and Davies ?
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How about a midfield 3 of Clark, Cuellar and Davies ?
Utterly ridiculous suggestion. Davies is out on loan!
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How about a midfield 3 of Clark, Cuellar and Davies ?
Utterly ridiculous suggestion. Davies is out on loan!
Also, 3 isn't going to be enough. I think we need to play 5 in the middle with 4 full backs.
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I remember GT going to Oldham in the Cup QF and playing 4 full backs when we got hammered 3-0, still bugs me why he did that.
We should bring in golden goal tickets so you can guess the time of the next goal, I'll go for February.
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Thoughts?
Yes, I disagree.
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Thoughts?
Yes, I disagree.
No, you're spot on
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Thoughts?
Yes, I disagree.
No, you're spot on
I agree, you're spot on in disagreeing.
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People seem to be critising the formation, saying it is too negative for a home match vs Brum. I personally disagree, the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 is just how they line up, primarily defensively. The intent of the team decides whether it is an attacking formation or not.
A 4-4-2 can be just as defensive if the midfielders never overlap or go past the forwards. I actually think a 4-2-3-1 is more attacking as the two midfielders should allow the front four to play with greater freedom.
I disagree, it was embarassingly negative, Heskey worked like a trojan up front but received very little support. We appeared scared of losing, as did Blues but that's the way they play, I don't want my team to play like that. There was an incident in the second half where Warnock could of overlapped Young to get a cross in but put the brakes on almost like he was attached to a rope, that must come from the manager.
The cup game might as well go straight to penalties cos it's going to be exactly the same, I hope we are practising them.
I think you missed my point Bosco. It's not the formation which is inherently negative, it's the "intent" of the team. One of Sidwell/NRC/Clark should have pushed forward more but its not their natural game.
The formation - in my opinion - was okay, the personal and their instructions were the negative bit.
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I do get your point, I was hoping Sidwell could have bombed on a bit, Downing and Young played very narrow which limited our forward options as well.