Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on October 22, 2010, 12:12:01 PM
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Who's the greatest? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jonathanstevenson/2010/10/pele_or_maradona_who_is_the_gr.html)
Pele for me.
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Pele.
You can draw a direct line back from Wayne Rooney (and all the crap surrounding him) to Maradona.
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Maradona for me. Purely because he proved himself to be brilliant at every level. Pele loses points for staying at Santos.
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I always used to think Pele, but his big fault is never playing in Europe.
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Pele scored over 1000 goals with no cocaine/Mafia fixed games to help him
OK sometimes the opposition wasn't the best
But still if your playing against pele-don't you try your hardest and hope to have one of the best games of your career?
Please bear in mind if you met pele you would want to shake his hand
If you met maradona you might just feel the urge to punch him
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Maradona for me. Despite his well publicised issues, won Argentina the WC almost single handedly, and did the same with Napoli and the Italian League. Pele was another exceptional player in a brilliant Brazil team of the time.
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Pele scored over 1000 goals with no cocaine/Mafia fixed games to help him
OK sometimes the opposition wasn't the best
But still if your playing against pele-don't you try your hardest and hope to have one of the best games of your career?
Please bear in mind if you met pele you would want to shake his hand
If you met maradona you might just feel the urge to punch him
I'd want to shake both their hands. They are both genius football players. Not sure how Cocaine inproves you as a football player, other than your abilty to talk absolute shite.
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I was also thinking the same thing.
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Cruyff.
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As good a player Maradona was, It's Pele for me-good in the air, inventive on the ground , fast and could shoot with both feet - I still think to promote Erectile problems takes some guts too :-[
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Pele.
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Maradona. Won the World Cup with an average Argentina side and the Scudetto with Napoli (twice I think).
Pele won the World Cup with brilliant Brazil sides and stayed in a mickey-mouse league.
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I always used to think Pele, but his big fault is never playing in Europe.
Sure but how many South American players at the time were playing in Europe? You can hardly put that down as a fault. At every level he played, he was the best. You can't do much more than that and his goals scored record still stands today.
Maradonna was a superbly gifted player but Pele was the exception.
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see, it would be a different answer for me if we were looking at the best volleyball player. But we are not. So Pele wins by not being a cheating bastard.
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Maradona. On the international stage Pele was surrounded by excellent players, Maradona wasn’t.
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Pele won the World Cup with brilliant Brazil sides and stayed in a mickey-mouse league.
Mickey Mouse League? And the old First Division was what, Minnie Mouse? I don't recall any English teams winning the Intercontinental Cup during the 60's, Santos won it twice. Even the great Manchester United European Cup winning team lost to Estudiantes of Argentina in 68.
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Maradona and it's not even close.
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Maradona for me he played in in spain and italy he won the league with Napoli and the Uefa Cup and won Argentina the world cup so it's got to be Maradona.
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Santos were the equivalent of the Harlem globe trotters. I read somewhere public in brazil rate Garricha more highly than Pele.
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Pele
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it's difficult to answer because i don't remember watching Pele live at his pomp but I can remember Maradona. For me Maradona is the best player I've ever seen but was he better than Pele - i dunno.
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see, it would be a different answer for me if we were looking at the best volleyball player. But we are not. So Pele wins by not being a cheating bastard.
Maradona was the best player I have seen but purely for the reason that he made me cry with his cheating scumbag antics I would have to rate him just behind Bernie Gallacher
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Anyone voting for the M word [spits] can only possibly be a media type afraid of being shot!
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As far as i understood the point of this thread, it was supposed to be who was the better player, not who was the most popular. Apparently the two are intertwined
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Maradona, definitely.
Santos were the equivalent of the Harlem globe trotters. I read somewhere public in brazil rate Garricha more highly than Pele.
The line goes that, in Brazil, Pele is respected but Garrincha is loved. Mind you, Pele since football has become a figure deserving of less and less respect as time has gone by. Not only the notorious viagra adverts, but also his petty squabbling with Maradona before the World Cup (which he absolutely started) and especially his absolute selling-out to Ricardo Teixeira and the CBF when a huge anti-corruption breakthrough was about to be made, effectively ending hopes of stopping corruption in Brazilian football for a generation. I can't say I have much respect for him for anything other than his football.
Maradona, interestingly, is actually loved by almost all who've met him. He went through his trouble in the '90s, but he seems through it and is doing better. Despite his undoubted cheating basterdry (and nobody mentions Terry Fenwick's elbow on him earlier in the game that ludicrously went unpunished), you can't say he isn't loved. None of Pele's former team-mates really seem to like him, and I can't say I'm surprised.
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The 1958 and 1970 World Cup-winning teams were both amazing and would've won the World Cup without Pele. The '58 team proved this as they did win it without him in 1962. The 1986 Argentina team were average without Maradona. He virtually won it on his own... then took a more mediocre side to within a dodgy penalty of winning it again in 1990.
The anti-Maradona faction seems to stem from that one handball incident. I don't recall too many England fans moaning when Paul Scholes did exactly the same thing against Poland, or Villa fans complaining when Baros did it against Everton. Overall, I would say our Ashley and most of the current England side are far closer to being cheating bastards than Maradona was... especially considering the treatment he had to put up with (although I acknowledge players used to kick Pele all over the pitch too).
Pele scored more goals but many of these were in specially arranged friendlies against the likes of Bournemouth and Third Division Villa (we stopped him scoring). He probably played about 100 games a season.
I reckon Maradona, with Gerd Muller as the greatest goalscorer ever.
Di Stefano ahead of any of them though.
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Diego. All day, every day.
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Maradona. Loath to say it, but his second goal against England in 86 showed that, if nothing else, he had the feet of God.
As has been said, he almost single-handedly took a mediocre side to World Champions and an unfashionable Napoli to the only two Serie A titles in their history.
Pele on the other hand has the consolation prize of playing in the greatest team of the television era: "Oh, that was sheer delightful football!"
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Pele.
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Pele. Greatness for me had to have an element of the man and the integrity of that man on the pitch. As such, both were wonderful players, but Maradona was most certainly a cheating little shit, and off the pitch shoved more white powder up his nose than there is in the local Johnson and Johnsons Talc factory. At the end of, as the drug testing tightened in 94 Maradona was carted off for his usage of banned substances. One is a legend. One is a flawed genius who will always spark more debate. So Pele for me.
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People always mention it but I don't see what being a cokehead has to do with it. If we're going to judge players on such weaknesses then where does that leave Paul McGrath in the grand scheme of things?
Even if he was on ephedrine, that wouldn't have helped him do half the things he did. Maradona did things with a football that no-one has dreamed of doing, before or since.
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Maradona gets my vote.
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It's Maradona all day long, he proved himself at every level, Pele never.
Pele's stats include playing for pub teams and playing for teams in the army.
I've scored 1200 goals at sunday league level.
Anyway ask any Brazilian and Pele isn't even the best player from Brazil.
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Maradona was more of my time, but I've watched plenty of Pele on video. Pele always impressed immensely, so I'll go with Pele. However best player I've seen at the time he was playing was Zidane.
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Maradona. Single-handedly won the world cup. An utter magican, and batshit mental. Wonderful
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Pele had a better all round game. Heading, pace, team work ............
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That famous exponent of the expansive, creative, artistic vision of football, Alf Ramsay, had this to say on the issue. "Pele has nearly everything. Maradona has everything."
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Pele. Greatness for me had to have an element of the man and the integrity of that man on the pitch. As such, both were wonderful players, but Maradona was most certainly a cheating little shit, and off the pitch shoved more white powder up his nose than there is in the local Johnson and Johnsons Talc factory. At the end of, as the drug testing tightened in 94 Maradona was carted off for his usage of banned substances. One is a legend. One is a flawed genius who will always spark more debate. So Pele for me.
I'll take a flawed genius anyday of the week. Far more exciting
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Anyone voting for the M word [spits] can only possibly be a media type afraid of being shot!
If he who shall not be named & set up M's hand of cheat goal can be villified, why the hell do people champion the fat drug users cause. I don't advocate violence or racism towards him I just hate the man & everything he stands for. Only seen Pele on TV clips & l,ooked a cracking player, but for me I worship at the church of Zidane, he won everything M won & more, he didn't win a world cup on his own but was the best player in many many great sides. Not enough credit is given to him & we all seem to be stuck in a world where only 2 choices can be possible, but just to open the debate there is great arguments for Best, Cruyff, Puskas & garrincha, to name but a few.
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Maradona.
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Pele look a very good striker and well polished all round player who score lot of goals and well respected. But without playing in European football it is difficult to tell how special is he. I think he is a fantastic team player. I am not sure how good is he as individual player. Could he join a team like say Aston Villa in the 60s for example and make them Champions and win European Cup. (However it would be interesting to see Hitchens, Hateley and Pele upfront all together)
While Maradona have more skills and better ball control and a brilliant individual player and proven in Europe. He also benefits more from TV coverage and publicity. However he didn't win an European Cup.
We could also argue that Alfred Di Stefano / Johan Cryuff / George Best / Zidane is even better. But again that is like comparing Apple to orange, pineapple, banana and pear.
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But again that is like comparing Apple to orange...
One makes expensive mobile phones; the other is a network provider. Is that the right answer?
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Maradona.
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Pele by a mile over the coke snorting basketball player.
He also played 90 minutes on the pitch of the most famous and greatest football club in the world, Maradona didnt.
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Pele by a mile over the coke snorting basketball player.
He also played 90 minutes on the pitch of the most famous and greatest football club in the world, Maradona didnt.
Because he was ill.
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I personally think Messi will become better than both. (he's very close as it stands). Villa aside, there aren't many things about the current game of football that interest me, Lionel Messi is a massive exception to this.
I agree with the calls for Zidane to be mentioned aswell. He always seemed to have so much time and space on the ball, he was an artist with it at his feet.
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I've voted Pele. 2nd only to Charlie Athersmith
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Diego.
1. Putting Napoli on the world football map
2. 1986 World Cup
3. Juggling a golf ball (he probably could juggle Pele too)
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Always difficult comparing players of different eras, but when I'm asked I answer that Cruyff was the best footballer I ever saw. Havin only ever seen them all on TV it's difficult to judge it:
- Pele was part of a magical team that reinforced football as the beautiful game ... although even in the 1960's and 1970's the Brazilians could be pretty cynical. And Pele was also the darling of the British media for the 'gladatorial' encounters with Bobby Moore.
- Maradona won the WC almost single-handedly and scored one of the best-ever goals. He also conquered Europe as a club player.
- Cruyff was part of something bigger; a 'movement' almost, which changed the way that the game is played. Yes, he played with some great players around him (as did Pele) but he called the tune.
It's Cruyff for me; but closely followed by Diego. Pele was a player of his time - the other two are timeless.
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Pele has a phenomenal goalscoring record however Maradona was tested in more than one league so edges it for me.
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Pele, the first to be great is the most important in history. Same as we claim about the Villa.
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Pele has a phenomenal goalscoring record however Maradona was tested in more than one league so edges it for me.
He was tested in lots of ways, failed a fair few of them as well *winky*
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Haha...have you read El Diego? I've always loved the guy as a player and found his autobiography really interesting.
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Diego Maradona, Ben Johnson; Ben Johnson, Diego Maradona.
Not that I'm at all bitter.
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Straying from the topic but Brazilian Ronald has to be the best striker I have ever seen and will ever see live. At the top of his game he was unplayable
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Straying from the topic but Brazilian Ronald has to be the best striker I have ever seen and will ever see live. At the top of his game he was unplayable
Agreed. His goalscoring record at Barca was ridiculous. He was only there for one season but that was his absolute peak for me.
On a similar note to the main topic, we should have been talking about Ronaldinho in the same breath as Pele and Maradona. For about three seasons he was phenomenal and probably better than Zidane until the partying got in the way. Whereas Zidane was able to sustain his form over his career Ronaldinho faded badly. Such a shame though, he did things I've never seen any other player do.