Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Shrek on October 17, 2010, 11:48:53 AM
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I'm very worried by the Richard Dunne situation.
We did well again yesturday, but played the majority without Dunne.
Cueller was MOTM against Wolves, gets dropped for Dunne against spurs an we lose.
Now I know results aren't directly linked to Dunne but I'm worried that he is a certain starter even though he is overweight and out of form.
What do you guys think
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I think it's too early in the new manager's reign to say that Dunne is a certain starter.
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I hope so
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I have been critical of Dunne this season. Fitness level leading to not being tight on forwards and poor cover for his team mates. However yesterday I thought he was sharp and pacey early on. He made a very good interception to our left and got injured in that process. Having said that I was not that disappointed when he went off as I expected Carlos to come on ...Clarke was a surprise but the kid only made 1 mistake. We are good for centre backs.
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he seems to be completely unfit as well. was shocked that carlos wasnt used!
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Cuellar would always be ahead of Dunne for me. Just think going forward we would be better off without Dunne.
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Dunney looks like he's been on the piss all summer but I think its a bit early to write him off yet, he did well yesterday and he did get injured by throwing himself into a challenge.
He'll be ok I think
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Any idea to the extent of the injury?
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Dunne had a few dodgy games but I thought he played much better at spurs , I'm sure houllier will use all 4 central defenders often and rotate them a fair amount, dunne came back overweight but looks a bit trimmer now.I would be happy with any 2 from those 4 to be honest as they are all decent players.
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If he gets fully fit, he'll be OK. We have Cueller and Clark as well, so I'm not too worried.
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I've often wondered if there's a stipulation in Dunne's contract that he must be a first team starter every game?
I would drop him until he shifted the weight.
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To be fair, he injured himself yesterday putting a vital challenge.
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Dunne looks a bit overweight at the moment
BUT he is the type of barrel chested Irishman that almost always looks overweight
I watch him play for Ireland and he does seem to give it that little bit extra in the running department when in the green shirt( a la Cascarino)
when he does stop playing he will doubtless balloon to Neil "disposable razor" Ruddock size in a matter of months!
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He's a nice guy but as central defender he's awful, mate, we are trying to pass from the long balls tactics of the MON's era to an entertaining passing football, and it's not by chance that we obtained great results without him. Clark and Cuellar are the pair of CM of the future (a bright future).
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Dunney was superb last season let's not forget.
He's having a bit of trouble so far this season, the ankle has been troubling him since the start but once he gets it sorted the consistant performances will return.
Centre half is far and away our strongest squad area so not too worried anyway.
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Cueller has to play instead now surely!
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Cueller should start next week alongside Collins. Dunne isn't at the races this season.
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great tackle at the end, but unfortunately that doesn't really matter as his error cost us a point. He should be dropped.
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aside from the once in a season crazy error, Dunne was superb today. He looks back to his best and is our best defender. Collins was fine too. Cuellar might he hard done by but thats the way it goes sometimes. We are carrying a centre half too many.
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aside from the once in a season crazy error, Dunne was superb today. He looks back to his best and is our best defender. Collins was fine too. Cuellar might he hard done by but thats the way it goes sometimes. We are carrying a centre half too many.
He was dodgy from what I saw. Looked very fat and very slow.
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There were a few very iffy moments. Gave the ball away a few times in very dangerous positions (then again, I think most people did at some point) and his distribution seemed worse than ever at times.
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Has to be dropped. Has to be. Nowhere near fit enough.
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aside from the once in a season crazy error, Dunne was superb today. He looks back to his best and is our best defender. Collins was fine too. Cuellar might he hard done by but thats the way it goes sometimes. We are carrying a centre half too many.
He was dodgy from what I saw. Looked very fat and very slow.
Cumbersome is the word.
Cueller a better bet against SHA.
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aside from the once in a season crazy error, Dunne was superb today. He looks back to his best and is our best defender. Collins was fine too. Cuellar might he hard done by but thats the way it goes sometimes. We are carrying a centre half too many.
Thing is even if that is the case, that crazy error is what cost us the game.
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I've said it a billion times before, and if I have to I'll say it a billion times again... Cuellar is better than Dunne and the Cuellar-Collins partnership works the best! Houiller has got to play Cuellar next week against the scum... plz.
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Has to be dropped. Has to be. Nowhere near fit enough.
he seemed fit enough to chase darren bent down in the 92 min and dispossess him. His error was a bad one no doubt though I'm not sure what Collins was doing there either seemed to put Dunne off at the last second - but we had over an hour to come back from it. It didnt solely cost us the game - Heskey's diabolical miss was just as crucial perhaps even more so as we were totally on top at the time and could have gone on to win the game.
far more relevant points to pick out than - dunne is nowhere near fit enough. for example - warnock was hopeless again today and fitness wise has more problems than dunne I reckon. Dunne was shit early on in the season when in a disgraceful condition but is back to last seasons form now imo.
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Warnock we are stuck with, there's no cover.
I'm lost as to how Cueller can be motm then be dropped for a player that has done nothing but make mistake after mistake inbetween the odd good tackle.
Record own goal scorer says it all.
He looks nothing like the player he was last year, Cueller has proved how good he is.
Gerrard has done right by team selections thus far, but this is one problem he must address.
We have played our best and got the best results when Dunne isn't there.
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Cuellar was excellent against Wolves. His best game for the club and has been unlucky to be dropped. BUT it was Wolves. Collins and Dunne have been superb centre halves for Villa for an entire season, we conceded 39 goals last season the best under MON and possibly for a long time if I bothered doing the research. Cuellar has been a disappointment at this club to be honest, next to Laursen when he first came he struggled and Davies got in. Next to Davies or Knight he continued to struggle. I dont see how Cuellar is an improvement on Dunne on the ball. Neither of them are great with the ball. To be fair I think Dunne and Collins have earned the right to be our centre half pairing. It seems to be the way Houllier sees it too.
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We played the entire of last season with Cueller in the team, it's no coincidence that without him we have been poor.
I say drop Dunne and play Cueller if it doesnt work then fair enough, but Cueller is a class centre half who has performed consistently when played in his correct desicion.
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I rate him an average player even when he's at his maximum, but the current form of Richard Dunne is really awful.
How long will you take to you to send him on the bench Mr GH?
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8 own goals = clumsy, error-prone defender.
Go on a diet you big clumsy oaf. Play Cuellar ffs!
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I've said it a billion times before, and if I have to I'll say it a billion times again... Cuellar is better than Dunne and the Cuellar-Collins partnership works the best! Houiller has got to play Cuellar next week against the scum... plz.
I don't think that the Cuellar -Collins partnership is the best. But I do think Cuellar should be in the team, and Dunne's performances have been going downhill since March.
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Playing well at Wolves is not performing consistently.
A definition of performing consistently - Dunne and Collins last season
Would say it is a total coincidence that Cuellar's absence from the right back spot this season has seen us drop points
the Dunne Collins partnership looked pretty rock solid to me today. Darren Bent didnt have a kick. Beye is good in the air too looks like we could have a big decision at right back though Luke Young is out for another bit I think. Friedel being stuck to his line at all times when the ball is in the air and Warnock are bigger issues. Thought Warnock was decent against Chelsea last week but he was back to his very worst today. Whatever about Dunne, he certaintly doesnt look fit.
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Cuellar was excellent against Wolves. His best game for the club and has been unlucky to be dropped. BUT it was Wolves. Collins and Dunne have been superb centre halves for Villa for an entire season, we conceded 39 goals last season the best under MON and possibly for a long time if I bothered doing the research. Cuellar has been a disappointment at this club to be honest, next to Laursen when he first came he struggled and Davies got in. Next to Davies or Knight he continued to struggle. I dont see how Cuellar is an improvement on Dunne on the ball. Neither of them are great with the ball. To be fair I think Dunne and Collins have earned the right to be our centre half pairing. It seems to be the way Houllier sees it too.
I really disagree that Cuellar has been a disappointment. He impresses me every time he plays Centre Back. Obviously not great with the ball but pure defending wise, one of the best in the country imo. His playing at right back was much debated, but he did the job required from him and did it well.
Dunne was immense last year, no doubt about it. It does not excuse his performances and more importantly the incredibly poor physical state he got himself into to for the start of the season. We have looked a lot more secure when Dunne hasn't played this season.
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8 own goals = clumsy, error-prone defender.
Go on a diet you big clumsy oaf. Play Cuellar ffs!
Its only one for us, the same as Cuellar.
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I don't think he's been the same player since the Cup Final.
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8 own goals = clumsy, error-prone defender.
Go on a diet you big clumsy oaf. Play Cuellar ffs!
Its only one for us, the same as Cuellar.
Blackburn at home on the final day of the season, and yesterday.
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Dunne played pretty well yesterday, own goal aside, and helped snuff out any threat from Bent.
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I think people are being way too hard on him, however it's time for Cuellar to be given a chance now. He hasn't had a proper run at centre back since that bloom who used to manage us signed him. If he is dropped it would be a great sign that Houllier means business and is fair towards all the players unlike that bloke who used to manage us.
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My problem with Richard Dunne this season, fitness aside, is that he seems to have a highly inflated sense of his own value to the team. Our last three goals seem to me to have been conceded due to Dunne's lack of faith in Collins (the superior player this season!). Both goals against Spurs were conceded when Dunne was drawn towards the Crouch and Collins duel, when he should've been defending the knock downs that VDV took advantage of. Yesterday, he should really have known that Collins was in the better position to clear for a corner. Perhaps Collins didn't give him the shout, but I swear Dunne just thinks he's Bruce fucking Willis half the time.
He brought a sense of commitment and responsibility to our defence when we were lacking in those attributes, but now he is becoming more and more of a liability and our third best centre back if we're being kind.
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You're being very harsh, though some elements are true. He's going through a bad run off form. I'm sure it will be back soon. I do believe Cuellar needs to replace him though and let's see how he fares.
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The fatness is a concern, you'd hope it's being addressed.
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They just showed all 8 own goals on SSN, I bet Dunney must have been delighted to see them all again
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You're being very harsh, though some elements are true. He's going through a bad run off form. I'm sure it will be back soon. I do believe Cuellar needs to replace him though and let's see how he fares.
Perhaps being dropped would give him a much needed reality check and he would return to the form that he showed when he turned up and stake a claim to get back in the first team, but I won't be holding my breath.
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If a less popular player than him had made the mistake in the cup final they'd have been hung out to dry. Too error-prone in my view, drop him
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If a less popular player than him had made the mistake in the cup final they'd have been hung out to dry.
That's true but it says more about the capricious nature of some football fans than it does about Richard Dunne.
With the way Houllier wants us to play our central defenders have to be comfortable on the ball and with the best will in the world that's not really a description you can use about Cuellar.
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I still can't understand how he can be so overweight, surely he goes into training every day.
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Another one for the Cuellar camp. I think at centre back he is excellent but please never at right back again.
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cuellar everyday for me. I think Dunne was at Everton before Man City and when we signed him he said "good player but just makes too many costly errors" . His assessment seems to be spot on.
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sorry, meant to write, that my Everton supporting mate said that of Dunne!
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Playing well at Wolves is not performing consistently.
A definition of performing consistently - Dunne and Collins last season
Would say it is a total coincidence that Cuellar's absence from the right back spot this season has seen us drop points
the Dunne Collins partnership looked pretty rock solid to me today. Darren Bent didnt have a kick. Beye is good in the air too looks like we could have a big decision at right back though Luke Young is out for another bit I think. Friedel being stuck to his line at all times when the ball is in the air and Warnock are bigger issues. Thought Warnock was decent against Chelsea last week but he was back to his very worst today. Whatever about Dunne, he certaintly doesnt look fit.
i said he has performed consistantly when he has played in his correct position, which is not right back.
Dunne and collins were great last season, but towards the end of last season and all of this season Dunne has been terrible, its no coincidence that we have been better when Dunne is out the team eg Wolves and Chelsea.
He is tottally out of form, Cueller is in form so its obvious solution to me.
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I still can't understand how he can be so overweight, surely he goes into training every day.
I actually thought he looked a bit trimmer yesterday. That said, I would still pick Cueller over him. Cueller has the attributes I like in a centre back, Dunney is a great lad and a top player but makes too many unforced errors. Hasn't he the record now for own goals?
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I still can't understand how he can be so overweight, surely he goes into training every day.
I actually thought he looked a bit trimmer yesterday. That said, I would still pick Cueller over him. Cueller has the attributes I like in a centre back, Dunney is a great lad and a top player but makes too many unforced errors. Hasn't he the record now for own goals?
Has done for a while.
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Just seen it.
No-one was near the ball either, I think Cuellar might come in against the Blues due to their ariel threat
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I still can't understand how he can be so overweight, surely he goes into training every day.
I actually thought he looked a bit trimmer yesterday. That said, I would still pick Cueller over him. Cueller has the attributes I like in a centre back, Dunney is a great lad and a top player but makes too many unforced errors. Hasn't he the record now for own goals?
Has done for a while.
Although Carragher is trying to keep up. At least he doesn't have the record for scoring more time against his club then for it that Carragher has.
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He made a world class tackle late on mind. The goal was the fault of Collins and Friedel too for not using the mouth inside their bloody heads to communicate to him that there wasn't a Sunderland player within 5 yards.
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I really don't understand what happened, i thought Dunne and Warnock started excellentley and were going to be the next big thing at the Villa, then towards the end of last season, it all stopped. I watched Cuellar when he was at Rangers and my uncle had a season ticket up there and they raved about him. King Cuellar was his nickname up there, i think he's well worth the nod right now, Cuellar and Collins at the back sounds solid
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It's interesting reading this vis-a-vis Collins
When we bought him I think a fair few of us hadn't really noticed what a good CB he is
He's not amazingly quick or tall or special on the ball
But he certainly has impressed us all(no one advocating him to be dropped in favour or Carlos)
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That is the problem with Dunne. When he is on top of his game he is unbeatable and we rarely, rarely concede. When he is bad though, he is one of the worst defenders you will watch in the Premier League - slow, constantly getting caught out, horrible own goals.
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http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/25102010/58/defenders-battle-own-goal-record.html
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Dunne needs a wake up call, a kick up the arse and a treadmill strapped to him for two weeks and his pie arm tied behind his back. He's brilliant on his day, but he's just not at the races.
Carlos has been very, very unfortunate. He was brilliant against Wolves. It was a Laursenesque display. He should come back in the side.
I seriously don't see what Dunne can offer us right now with his form and fitness. Vocal? I'd argue that Collins does that very well. He's a worthy skipper in his own right.
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As a City fan I thought I'd come on here to find out how you were going on with Dunne and Ireland. Seems Dunnie has split opinion here as he did at City. Sometimes hero, sometimes villain. For what it's worth we reached the conclusion that Dunnie's great strength was making last ditch tackles when our backs were against the wall in our own 18 yard box. When he began to struggle was when we were pushing up and he was left near the halfway line, back to goal, with fast forwards running at him. Many of us also reckoned the own goals were as a result of the fact that he was usually the one trying to clear the danger in front of goal. As for his figure, that's exactly what we said but he can't half shift for a big man when he gets the momentum up.
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As a City fan I thought I'd come on here to find out how you were going on with Dunne and Ireland. Seems Dunnie has split opinion here as he did at City. Sometimes hero, sometimes villain. For what it's worth we reached the conclusion that Dunnie's great strength was making last ditch tackles when our backs were against the wall in our own 18 yard box. When he began to struggle was when we were pushing up and he was left near the halfway line, back to goal, with fast forwards running at him. Many of us also reckoned the own goals were as a result of the fact that he was usually the one trying to clear the danger in front of goal. As for his figure, that's exactly what we said but he can't half shift for a big man when he gets the momentum up.
Hi Deano
Dunne was excellent last season, not only defensively, but also as a leadership figure. The main problem I, and a lot of Villa fans have, is that this season he came back in an unacceptable physical condition. He looked like he spent all summer on the guinness and pies. His first few games were shoddy at best and downright pathetic at worst (Newcastle away). He is very lucky not to have been dropped. His performance at Sunderland was better, (besides the own goal) but he still has a long way to go to get back to last seasons form.
As for Ireland. He was played out of position for his first few games and has been quiet on the whole. He is very talented and i'm sure in the near future he will start displaying that. He does get into some excellent areas but at present he doesn't seem to be on quite the same wavelength as our other attacking players. I'm sure that will come in time.
Now as i've very graciously answered your question, perhaps you can confirm that Milner is not fitting in and we can have him back next summer for a third of the price.
If you could be so kind. ;)
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The way that Cuellar and Clark looked on Wednesday, Dunne is destined to be a subb for a while.
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As a City fan I thought I'd come on here to find out how you were going on with Dunne and Ireland. Seems Dunnie has split opinion here as he did at City. Sometimes hero, sometimes villain. For what it's worth we reached the conclusion that Dunnie's great strength was making last ditch tackles when our backs were against the wall in our own 18 yard box. When he began to struggle was when we were pushing up and he was left near the halfway line, back to goal, with fast forwards running at him. Many of us also reckoned the own goals were as a result of the fact that he was usually the one trying to clear the danger in front of goal. As for his figure, that's exactly what we said but he can't half shift for a big man when he gets the momentum up.
Hi Deano
Dunne was excellent last season, not only defensively, but also as a leadership figure. The main problem I, and a lot of Villa fans have, is that this season he came back in an unacceptable physical condition. He looked like he spent all summer on the guinness and pies. His first few games were shoddy at best and downright pathetic at worst (Newcastle away). He is very lucky not to have been dropped. His performance at Sunderland was better, (besides the own goal) but he still has a long way to go to get back to last seasons form.
As for Ireland. He was played out of position for his first few games and has been quiet on the whole. He is very talented and i'm sure in the near future he will start displaying that. He does get into some excellent areas but at present he doesn't seem to be on quite the same wavelength as our other attacking players. I'm sure that will come in time.
Now as i've very graciously answered your question, perhaps you can confirm that Milner is not fitting in and we can have him back next summer for a third of the price.
If you could be so kind. ;)
Personally, I try not to judge a player too early. Second season is usually a more reliable guide. So far milner's failed to shine so who knows ? As for ireland, the 5% comment was about right. A truly gifted player and, if he can get his head right, he's a bargain at what you paid. Strange bloke though and hard to fathom.
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Personally, I try not to judge a player too early. Second season is usually a more reliable guide. So far milner's failed to shine so who knows ?
I can't work out why he is being played out wide. The form that made you pay so much money was him playing solely through the centre.
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No, we can't work that one out either. Probably has something to do with trying to accomodate and assimilate all the signings.
As everyone said when we started buying, you can't just buy a team you have to find out formations, relationships etc. Money only buys you the raw materials. The rest takes time as we saw today.