Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: citizenDJ on October 09, 2010, 12:08:04 PM
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http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6435487,00.html (http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6435487,00.html)
Pffft! 'Technical football' in the afternoons? Sounds a bit bloody modern, if you ask me.
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'passing game'
And about time too.
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Wont do Petrov / Warnock / Downing / Carew or Dunne any harm to be fair.
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
I'm not sure even MON knew that ;)
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
I'm not sure
even MON knew that ;)
The long ball game is less tiring, Gabby was running onto those long balls and he's naturally fit.
To take Spain as an example of how the game should b played, their team would have been extremely fit to keep passing and moving.
I like the look of this.
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
Kick and run in the morning followed by hoof and hope in the afternoon
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sounds good to me!
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Sounds shit to me, glad I made the decision not to be a professional footballer. When do they get time for a game of snooker or a trip to the bookies.
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It sound's ok to me it can't do them any harm.
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When do they get time for a game of snooker or a trip to the bookies.
Not to mention dalliances with prostitutes...
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I heard from a player that it was mainly running under the old regime. Not much ball work at all.
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It's remarkable that we managed to acumulate the most point since the inaugral PL season and the Wembley trips wthout putting any effort into it. Just think how good we'll be now that we've started training as well.
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Poor fitness levels although some of that can be attributed to lack of squad rotation caused us to collapse in March and cost us CL twice.So yes who knows what we can now achieve ??
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When do they get time for a game of snooker or a trip to the bookies.
Not to mention dalliances with prostitutes...
And the afternoon drinking sessions
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
Kick and run in the morning followed by hoof and hope in the afternoon
I think actually it was pass and don't move in the mornings and hoof it out for a corner or throw in during the afternoons. On Wednesdays, they practised sitting as deep as you possibly can for the last 20 minutes of a game...
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Fitness is a positive for every player .........
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It's remarkable that we managed to acumulate the most point since the inaugral PL season and the Wembley trips wthout putting any effort into it. Just think how good we'll be now that we've started training as well.
Despite all criticism, under MON we played for results, and in a style which is well suited for the Premiership. Under GH/Ged/Gezza we are trying to play more adventurous, with more short passes and good movement. This is more risky, and it's not obvious that it will lead to better results in the short run.
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Read a similar story in today's mail, Actually I think it was the same story.
About time, Players shouldn't complain either its only going to help them in the long run, Im sure most of them are happy to do a bit more ball work, However I do reccomend more running for Dunne
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I think there is a chance in the short term trying to adopt a more attractive possession based style may make our points haul worse. However in the long term I think it will enable us to compete at the top level and is the way forward. Plus it will be a fuck load better to watch.
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I heard from a player that it was mainly running under the old regime. Not much ball work at all.
That doesn't surprise me in the least.
Our ball possession under Doh'Neill was chronic.
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So, if we're doing 2 sessions a day, what will happen on the open day? They do another behind closed doors?
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good stuff...
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stick it in the mixer!!!! Put some snow on it!!!! They dow scower frum theyer!!! Tek no prisoners!!! get yower fingers from up yower arses!!!
Great football tactics! Fuck this fitness bollocks!
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It's remarkable that we managed to acumulate the most point since the inaugral PL season and the Wembley trips wthout putting any effort into it. Just think how good we'll be now that we've started training as well.
Despite all criticism, under MON we played for results, and in a style which is well suited for the Premiership. Under GH/Ged/Gezza we are trying to play more adventurous, with more short passes and good movement. This is more risky, and it's not obvious that it will lead to better results in the short run.
It was a style well suited to the Premiership up to a certain point, though.
You'd struggle to get any further than we did playing that kind of football - certainly a style which places no emphasis whatsoever on things like movement, keeping the ball.
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Think Dunne needs four sessions ..........
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
Kick and run in the morning followed by hoof and hope in the afternoon
There was an article a few months after NRC arrived and he mentioned being homesick and missing London.
I almost felt sorry for him - until he did an interview a few weeks later when he talked about the training regime at Villa. Something ridiculous like start at 10.30am, finish by 12.30-1pm and -best of all- Wednesdays off.
Didn't sound particularly intensive truth be told.
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here's (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/apr/19/workandcareers.astonvilla) the begger:
But then like most high-profile footballers, Reo-Coker has seen the unpleasant side of fame. During his final season at West Ham, when the club was nearly relegated from the Premier League, some fans held him responsible for the team's failure. He received hate mail and was booed during games. Today, he is clearly reluctant to go back to the subject. "It was a difficult period," he says simply, "but I'm over it now." The result, in July of last year, was that he joined Aston Villa, who paid West Ham a fee in the region of £8m to release him.
These days, however, many people would regard Reo-Coker's life as almost idyllic - and he would agree with them. "Monday, you'd come in and do a warm-down training session," he explains. "You'd probably be out there on the pitch for an hour, an hour and a half. My general routine would be: I'd get in early, about 9am, have a green tea, breakfast, relax, go and see the physios if I have any problems. Then you start training at 10.30am, come back around 12pm ... And after you've finished there's lunch - loads of organic food, prepared by chefs. Eat, and then the rest of the day is yours. You can always set off by 1pm."
Tuesdays typically follow the same pattern, after which Wednesdays is a day off. Thursdays are like Monday and Tuesday again, and then Friday brings on just a light training session - "an hour maximum" - before the team spend the evening in a hotel together in preparation for Saturday's game. Then at the end of the season, there is the summer break, the length of which varies, but most players get at least the whole of June off. "It's a very privileged life," Reo-Coker admits, and it is hard to argue.
Could this be part of the reason why we generally looked spent in the latter stages of matches last season and always came a cropper in March?
It probably didn't help, put it that way.
I'm sure the atmosphere and morale was pretty decent though - less training time and days off would pretty much guarantee that.
It says a lot about the players that they were able to scratch out the results they managed under the circumstances.
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Get in early, about 9am.
Early? rofl.
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We were always fit under O Neill up until the last 6 months. I just think with one foot out the door he loosened his grip a fair bit. We'd always played high intensity football, lots of closing down, and for that group of 14 evers to have lasted so well, they must have been fit.
But come this season something hasn't been right. You can see that with certain players carrying far too much weight, like Dunney.
Certainly though, delighted Houllier is quite aware of our deficiencies (fitness and lack of passing being very evident) and is trying to rectify them. Martins problem is, he never saw what we were doing wrong (because it would thereby admit his own failings) and never did anything about them.
I have also heard Martin was never about tactics or ball work. He's always been a troop rallier. That's how he's succeeded, but that's also why I don't ever see him as a truly top manager. I think he'll fail at a big gig like Liverpool or Utd. He took us as far as he could too.
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Martin never worked on who we were playing next. Never thought about their strengths/weaknesses.
Maloney did an interview about it.
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I think when any new manager comes in there always seems to be a bit about improving the players fitness. Or is that just me? Certainly remember DOL saying something similar anyway.
I don't know how our training regime under MON differed from other PL sides, but I can imagine that after a very 'British' background to our staff, a continental manager will always be looking to do things differently. One thing I took from the Young interview was that Gezza is looking to change things gradually, which I think is the best way. We weren't exactly crap under MON, so I'm more for things being added to our game rather than a complete 'starting from scratch' approach. Evolutuion not revolution.
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Martin never worked on who we were playing next. Never thought about their strengths/weaknesses.
Maloney did an interview about it.
That contradicts what Kevin MacDonald said and I'd trust him before the whinging little mommy's boy.
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Until GH finishes above MON or goes 1 better in the cups then I'll wait before passing judgement on MON vs GH training approach.
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Martin never worked on who we were playing next. Never thought about their strengths/weaknesses.
Maloney did an interview about it.
That contradicts what Kevin MacDonald said and I'd trust him before the whinging little mommy's boy.
Yeah. I'd be absolutely staggered if any PL manager in the modern era totally overlooked briefing his team on the opposition in the build-up to a game. There would have been some kind of focus on who we were playing.
Be interesting to see what we look like as a team in six months time though, and if we can spot a discernable difference in style under GH.
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There's some website called "Footylatest" which printed exactly interview with Luke Young but healined it with the rather more negative "Aston Villa could face burnout from training sessions".
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Be interesting to see what we look like as a team in six months time though, and if we can spot a discernable difference in style under GH.
I'm expecting some changes to our style, with more emphasis on ball retention. However, I'm more concerned about whether the results will get any better?
I'm guessing not, and if anything we'll move backwards from where we were under MON until Gezza starts recruiting his own players. This should mean his style will take greater effect and hopefully his contacts/knowledge will mean this is a better class of player to what Martin could source primarily from the UK.
Six months will be interesting, as you say, but a year or so will be more telling as to where we're headed under him.
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If we keep the ball better, we will use less energy in the game and maybe have a much better chance to hold on for win with fighting spirit from MON's era.
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Six months will be interesting, as you say, but a year or so will be more telling as to where we're headed under him.
Absolutely agree.
We can't expect too much from this season, given the circumstances, so I'm treating everything that does go well as a bonus. Once he's "bedded in", bought some players of his own choice, and once we start to see the results of his type of training, then we'll see the way we're headed.
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The change in training. The empasis on ball retention and the desire to play more "football" are all positive steps to move forward. MON (not slagging him) seemed to have run out of ways of moving us on. Same team week in week out. Players out of position. Houllier seems at least like he is creating a philosophy to able to work from and with the addition of some European talent with technical ability to add to the team, we will definitely improve .........
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Walter, you are right. The Bibs and Cones training sessions were - according to some players- the mainstay of training. The result was seen on the pitch- lack of creativity and fluidity so often in our play. Then of course the lack of player rotation, March burnout, and player frustration especially amongst the fringe and younger players. We might never have seen Albrighton with O'Neil.
Anyway he, Robertson, Storey Moore and the rest of the Nottingham Forest/Clough Mafia have gone.
Given that he did have reasonable success in the Prem with us and a referee and some bad luck cost us another final and a LC win- they did well with basic footy. But...
Imagine what this team, with a few additions, can do if they retain their workrate AND know how to creatively hold, pass and move. Good Luck to Rene.
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We might never have seen Albrighton with O'Neil.
I think that's pretty much a given, he'd never have given him a run in the team.
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We might never have seen Albrighton with O'Neil.
I think that's pretty much a given, he'd never have given him a run in the team.
We wouldn't have see Luke Young or NRC again.
Shame that we've seen Sidwell though.
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We might never have seen Albrighton with O'Neil.
I think that's pretty much a given, he'd never have given him a run in the team.
We wouldn't have see Luke Young or NRC again.
Shame that we've seen Sidwell though.
I just close my eyes when that bit happens.
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Two things:-
1. I think Martin showed he was ready to give kids a chance and think we WOULD have seen more of Albrighton under him. I would also point out that it was K-Mac who gave him a real chance, so had Gezza come in without that 6 or so game period of him playing well, would he be picking him?
2. I think it's too easy to jump on the band wagon of different training techniques, better passing and signing some foreigners, but this does NOT guarantee any greater success than we had under Martin. It will if it can be brought in while still retaining the elements that were good under him, such as being good on the counter, pace up top, a strong defence and lots of hard work/never say die attitude on the pitch.
I said Martin needed to add things, not necessarily change things. So the same goes for Gezza in that he needs to build on what we have as if he takes away our strengths and just adds different ones, will we be any better off?
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We might never have seen Albrighton with O'Neil.
I think that's pretty much a given, he'd never have given him a run in the team.
We wouldn't have see Luke Young or NRC again.
Shame that we've seen Sidwell though.
I just close my eyes when that bit happens.
No good Paulie, after seeing his orange head, you get that same image after looking at a light bulb and then shutting your eyes.
It's burnt onto your retinas.
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Everyone should be given a fresh start, including Sidwell. Maybe his confidence was knocked for six by O'Neill? Maybe he's just shit? Let's give him a chance though.
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
Kick and run in the morning followed by hoof and hope in the afternoon
MON has left.
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stick it in the mixer!!!! Put some snow on it!!!! They dow scower frum theyer!!! Tek no prisoners!!! get yower fingers from up yower arses!!!
Great football tactics! Fuck this fitness bollocks!
The thing is, from some of the things shouted near me in the ground, you'd have to say that some football fans show even less football and tactical intelligence than our home performances last year under MON did!
I would welcome a more possession-based, technical brand of football down Villa, even if we do finish 8/9th with less points. In the long run it will definitely be worth it, as shown by West Brom's current predicament.
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I wouldn’t accept 8th/9th- not with the players we’ve got and a new emphasis on ball retention and movement. For those of us at WHL, we had a glimpse of some really quality attacking football with Heskey as the focal point of the attack. It was excellent to watch and we should have been three up by the time Heskey limped off.
I see that as a glimpse of things to come. With money to spend in January and things appearing to come together style wise, I think we’ll have another decent season.
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
Kick and run in the morning followed by hoof and hope in the afternoon
MON has left.
That's why he was asking what they did before.
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I'd have thoguht a combination of working on physical fitness and tehcnical ability was an obvious for any football club.
I wonder what they were doing before.
Kick and run in the morning followed by hoof and hope in the afternoon
MON has left.
That's why he was asking what they did before.
I was just making the point that had MON been doing double training sessions that's what they would have consisted of: kick and run in the morning, hoof and hope in the afternoon. Just trying to be witty. Failed.
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I wouldn’t accept 8th/9th- not with the players we’ve got and a new emphasis on ball retention and movement. For those of us at WHL, we had a glimpse of some really quality attacking football with Heskey as the focal point of the attack. It was excellent to watch and we should have been three up by the time Heskey limped off.
I see that as a glimpse of things to come. With money to spend in January and things appearing to come together style wise, I think we’ll have another decent season.
But that's exactly the point, we played more attractively, but lost the game (albeit after Heskey went off, but even with 90 mins from him there would have been no guarantees). Ok, that's risk you run, and it's worth it.
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I was just making the point that had MON been doing double training sessions that's what they would have consisted of: kick and run in the morning, hoof and hope in the afternoon. Just trying to be witty. Failed.
I think that's what CJ was getting at. He clearly failed too.
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I may be in the minority reading this thread, but I do favour results over style. I welcome the idea of a more passing game, but to me that's becuase I see it as (part of) what we are missing to be a truely top side and start winning trophies.
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I wouldn’t accept 8th/9th- not with the players we’ve got and a new emphasis on ball retention and movement. For those of us at WHL, we had a glimpse of some really quality attacking football with Heskey as the focal point of the attack. It was excellent to watch and we should have been three up by the time Heskey limped off.
I see that as a glimpse of things to come. With money to spend in January and things appearing to come together style wise, I think we’ll have another decent season.
But that's exactly the point, we played more attractively, but lost the game (albeit after Heskey went off, but even with 90 mins from him there would have been no guarantees). Ok, that's risk you run, and it's worth it.
We'll still lose games under Houllier. The fact we have a striking problem doesn't help that, but I thought we deserved a point nonetheless.
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We'll still lose games under Houllier. The fact we have a striking problem doesn't help that, but I thought we deserved a point nonetheless.
The striking problems/options are no different than before, so that can hardly be used as an excuse for poorer results.
I'm prepared for short term pain for long term gain, but to me that gain needs to be in terms of points, league place and trophies and not just the intangible of 'better football.'
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We'll still lose games under Houllier. The fact we have a striking problem doesn't help that, but I thought we deserved a point nonetheless.
The striking problems/options are no different than before, so that can hardly be used as an excuse for poorer results.
I'm prepared for short term pain for long term gain, but to me that gain needs to be in terms of points, league place and trophies and not just the intangible of 'better football.'
I cannot remember Gabby being injured for as long as he has been. He's gone from one niggle to another so far this season. Hopefully his operation is the end of it. Its also fortunate that Heskey has shown some form in his recent appearances as Carew has looked abysmal.
As I've said, I don't think we will come 8/9th. Who is realistically going to push us down three spots? Everton? Fulham, Liverpool? SHA?! Not for me.
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Just read a book on houllier - he loves new training methods and rotating his squad- what a pleasant change he is.
Also was interested to know sir alex rang and asked his advice about signing cantona- I think the houllier era will be great for us and I am very impressed by him so far - keep it up GED!
Realistically with no tranfers in apart from Ireland I think we will be battling with Liverpool and everton for 6th to 8 th place and kick on from that next season when GED has bought some new players in - maybe a cup win with a bit of luck.
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Realistically with no tranfers in apart from Ireland I think we will be battling with Liverpool and everton for 6th to 8 th place and kick on from that next season when GED has bought some new players in - maybe a cup win with a bit of luck.
That's probably a fair and accurate assessment. However......
I'm not sure about this, but haven't we got the 'easier' home games the the 2nd half of the season, so lots of points to be picked up there? If you add that to what we expect to be fitter and fresher players when we usually had a slump, plus the return of Delph and maybe one new signing to further lift things, who knows?
I think the key is to be within striking distance of 4th after Christmas and then we may have loftier ambitions.
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I hope you are right john but I think man city and spurs have much more depth in their squads than we do this season and I'd expect GED to bring in a few players in the summer- the future I believe looks very bright for us now and I have great faith that GED will deliver .
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I'm not saying this will happen and I think 6th-8th is more realistic. Just reserving my right to change my expectations if we're in the hunt by Jan and Gezza manages to get at least one good player in.
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I don't think that we're out of the top four race. Nobody's exactly been convincing yet, have they? I'd still say it's too early, but with all the problems on Merseyside there's no reason why we can't finish sixth, again, and no reason why we should be too far behind Spurs and City. Besides, with the Platini rules affecting even City's spending, we can afford a bit more time to build properly now, which is exactly what GH wants us to do. What with all this, our bright youth system already paying significant dividends, our potential stadium expansion and the fact the club is in not only safe hands but shrewd ones as well, I for one am very optimistic about the future.
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I may be in the minority reading this thread, but I do favour results over style. I welcome the idea of a more passing game, but to me that's becuase I see it as (part of) what we are missing to be a truely top side and start winning trophies.
Results have to take priority.
Even with the well documented shortcomings of MON's side in recent years we still managed to win 17 league games in the last two seasons. That's tough going in a league as competitive as the Prem.
It would be nice if a bit of tinkering got us the extra win or two we needed to improve on that but unfortunately football doesn't work that way.
A concern for me would be that we've played well in a fair few matches - Stoke for 70 minutes, Tottenham for large stretches of the game, even the first 30 minutes of the Newcastle match- and still lost. That would indicate a soft underbelly and the defence has looked ropey this year, Dunne in particular.
For that reason I'm not even sure if we can match the last two years wins/ points total - nevermind top it.
But the groundwork may need to be put in this season to get us going again next campaign. The thing is, even to *only* finish 7th/8th we'll need to put a run of form together at some point and win more matches than we lose, regardless of new manager/ looking to the future et.c. The way results have gone for us this year I really wouldn't like to assume we could look at any match or any stretch of games as guaranteed wins.
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In my view you cannot win or have success without a more passing style. It may mean results suffer in the short term, but in the long term it is absolutely imperative to success.
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I doubt that a style with higher emphasis on ball retention and short passes will improve results in the short run. However, there are some possible advantages:
- Less tiring -- thus making us less likely to concede goals late in the match. It could also help our fitness levels towards the end of the season.
- Builds players confidences -- emphasis on ball retention makes it easier to "control the match" (an elusive term)
- Players improve -- the players learn more/develop better skills when in possession. That's not necessarily the case when they are hoofing or chasing the ball.
- Better players increase the number of tactical options -- for tactics to work, the players must be able to carry out the game plan. Better players are more able to change their way of playing when it is required.
If a more passing style can bring some of these advantages in the long run, then a change in style may lead to better results as well.
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...Besides, with the Platini rules affecting even City's spending, we can afford a bit more time to build properly now, which is exactly what GH wants us to do.
Won't we be affected by this ruling too though?
My understanding is that we have been bankrolled by Randy's generosity for the past X years as well. Correct me where I am wrong but how can we benefit more than Man City etc especially when we have more "catching up" to do which will inevitably demand greater spending (both in total and as a % of turnover)?
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The point is that City's turnover, while greater than ours, is not so much greater as to allow them to outspend us in the manner that they have been. They have overtaken us with that enormous amount of money, but not by much - and with the rulings coming in, that's where their stretching away from us stops. We can build from here, no doubt about it.
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I doubt that a style with higher emphasis on ball retention and short passes will improve results in the short run. However, there are some possible advantages:
- Less tiring -- thus making us less likely to concede goals late in the match. It could also help our fitness levels towards the end of the season.
- Builds players confidences -- emphasis on ball retention makes it easier to "control the match" (an elusive term)
- Players improve -- the players learn more/develop better skills when in possession. That's not necessarily the case when they are hoofing or chasing the ball.
- Better players increase the number of tactical options -- for tactics to work, the players must be able to carry out the game plan. Better players are more able to change their way of playing when it is required.
If a more passing style can bring some of these advantages in the long run, then a change in style may lead to better results as well.
That all sounds fine in theory.
But the biggest thing to effect players confidence is wins, goals scored and goals conceded.
It was a feature of the brief stint we had under Kevin Mac that we looked bright and lively to start with and then folded like a deckchair when the opposition scored.
You can go out all week and put the emphasis on possession, neat triangles and the like. But the acid test is Saturday 3pm (Or Sunday 4pm/ Monday night 8pm in these odd times) and the opposition generally don't allow you to play the way you want. You have to earn the right.
It's marrying that improvement in our approach play (which I think we all agree needed an overhaul) with a pragmatism and ability to churn out results even if things don't always go our way.
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Petrov in new fitness coach is working spiel.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11677_6457795,00.html
So is it fact, and I can't see why not, so was Mon's coaching regime as bad as some suggested.
If so, I assume that those last minute loss of points may become a thing of the past. I wonder if as a result we will lose out on something, though.
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All I know is they've certainly changed their tune since last March when the Villa players were queuing up to claim John Terry was talking out of his arse.
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Petrov in new fitness coach is working spiel.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11677_6457795,00.html
So is it fact, and I can't see why not, so was Mon's coaching regime as bad as some suggested.
If so, I assume that those last minute loss of points may become a thing of the past. I wonder if as a result we will lose out on something, though.
Judging by the Chelsea game, it seems to be working on Petrov already.
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It helps when your fitness coach is a madman.
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"My next level of fitness is dying," joked the Bulgarian. "After the next couple of weeks I may do two marathons in a row!
followed by a Mars bar.......pre nineties joke for you!
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Why does that skyports page have a link to the Martin Petrov profile?
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Yeah Petrov has definitely been looking more like he can last for the duration of the game lately.
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I would just be happy if Carew could just stay on his feet ..........
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We have only scored 1 goal from a set piece this season (in the league), the joint lowest.
Is that because we have started to practice them, as under MON apparently we didn't, or is it Milner leaving, but of the 3 who regularly took corners last year I would put Milner behind Young and Downing.
The increase in training might result in fitter players but also more injuries (strains, niggles etc), if that makes any sense at all.