Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Mr Diggles on September 25, 2010, 06:17:49 AM
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Houllier thinks he can be genuinely good there, but what does that mean for Ireland?
Houllier on Young (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/24/aston-villa-ashley-young-gerard-houllier)
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---NRC---Petrov---Sidwell---
-------Young---Ireland--------
-----------Agbonlahor---------
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Young has certainly shown lately that hes better at finishing than crossing. We know he can beat a player and goes down easily enough so may be he would be better in a more central attacking role. I know I'd rather see Ash going 1on1 with the keeper than Gabby and hes more likely to put chances away.
Gabby put in some decent crosses against Stoke, so may be a bit of role reversal for Ash and Gabby wouldnt be too bad. We will lose width and fight in midfield if he's going to accommodate and utilise both Ash and Ireland as attacking options in the middle.
I'm sure GH has some ideas up his sleeve...well, lets hope he does!
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GH was always impressed by very hard trainers at Liverpool, Fowler and other talents fell by the wayside as Ged didnt warm to them. I worry that SI's face mightnt fit in the GH world.
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The problem we have though is that is also Ireland's best position. That's going to be a challenge for the manager and coaching staff to work out a way of fitting them both in, on the evidence so far it doesn't work.
Villa sub's suggestion above lacks width for me.
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Ive long been advocating playing with just one wide man , be that downing , ash or albrighton. If GED sees ash as a better striker than gabby then good luck to him , I think gabby needs a wake up call and this could be a good thing.
I would play petrov and reo coker in the middle with Ireland in a roaming midfield role and downing out wide , and go with heskey and ash up front against wolves- interesting whether carlos keeps dunne out.
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I dont think there is any need to rush Dunne back with the form he has shown this season and the weight he seems to have put on. I haven't seen anything to excite me about Ireland's play yet but its a new club, new settings etc and he has to find a new pad to chav up in the way only he could.
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I'd personally have Ireland and Young swapping between central and wide, during the game. As and when really. Ireland has played wide before. He's not a byline and cross sort of player, but he'll drift into goalscoring positions. I think Irelands movement is that good he'll be able to find himself space whether he's coming at goals from right, left, or centre.
Plus Ash in a central role hasn't been an outright success so far. There've been times it hasn't worked (granted, we were playing with almost no cohesion tactically, which Ged may sort now) but the occasional move out wide to occupy their fullback could be sensible.
To be fair, as long as you have either Albrighton or Downing keeping up the width, you don't necessarily need two outright wingers. Not many teams play that way these days. They'll have a winger on one side, and a roamer on the other perhaps.
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Ireland and Robinho both had free roles with good success at Citeh. Just need to get Ash and Ireland working in tandem.
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If you play Ireland and Young in the middle, creating just behind the strikers and play Downing on the left, you'll need to play 4-5-1
I guess with our current squad:
Friedel
Young
Collins
Dunne
Warnock
Ireland
Young
NRC
Petrov
Downing
Gabby
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GH was always impressed by very hard trainers at Liverpool, Fowler and other talents fell by the wayside as Ged didnt warm to them. I worry that SI's face mightnt fit in the GH world.
I think thats a bit of a misconception about Ireland. He trains as hard, if not harder than anyone. I remeber an article at the start of last season that was describing all the extra personal training he did away from Man City's training ground.
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-----Petrov-----
Young---Downing
----Ireland------
---NRC---Petrov---
Albrighton---Downing
-------Young---------
---------------NRC--------------
Albrighton---Ireland---Downing
--------------Young-------------
------------NRC----------------
Young-----Albrighton--Downing
-----------Ireland---------------
---------NRC----Petrov---------
Albrighton------------Young---
-----------Downing------------
(admit it, hid did alright here for Boro)
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The big problem is that we have 2 wingers (Albrighton and Downing), neither of whom deserve to be dropped, then Ireland who is an attacking midfielder.
If Ashley is going to play just behind the striker, there is no room for Ireland unless he can be converted into a holding midfielder and that is unlikely.
Still, nice to have some options.
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Friedal
l young. Cuellar. Collins. Warnock
Reo-coker. Petrov. Downing
Ireland
A young. Heskey
That's how I'd go about the wolves game , with ash and Ireland both have freedom to roam.
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The big problem is that we have 2 wingers (Albrighton and Downing), neither of whom deserve to be dropped, then Ireland who is an attacking midfielder.
If Ashley is going to play just behind the striker, there is no room for Ireland unless he can be converted into a holding midfielder and that is unlikely.
Still, nice to have some options.
Agreed, although I don't think it would hurt to give Albrighton a rest - this is all new to him so taking the pressure off for a week or two will do him no harm. Ireland as an impact player from the bench might be the best bet at the moment.
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The big problem is that we have 2 wingers (Albrighton and Downing), neither of whom deserve to be dropped, then Ireland who is an attacking midfielder.
If Ashley is going to play just behind the striker, there is no room for Ireland unless he can be converted into a holding midfielder and that is unlikely.
Still, nice to have some options.
Agreed, although I don't think it would hurt to give Albrighton a rest - this is all new to him so taking the pressure off for a week or two will do him no harm. Ireland as an impact player from the bench might be the best bet at the moment.
You are right about Albrighton, the last thing we want to do is overplay him.
Roll on January and we might get a couple of new faces in to give us more options, holding midfielder wise.
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You can't play Ireland and Young both in central free roles and literally no-one on the right. Luke Young would get crucified and we would lack shape.
Asking Ireland to start from a right hand side position and come inside, a bit like berger did on the left, is an option, but he wouldn't like it.
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---NRC---Petrov---Sidwell---
-------Young---Ireland--------
-----------Agbonlahor---------
Could this be the Villa narrow boat slamming into PL icebergs?
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If we accept that Young playing central with Heskey could be a success for more than 1 game than we have a major problem with the luggage that MON left us to use. We do not have a strong midfield enforcer. We have too many wide players. What happens when Delph returns? How does Ireland fit in? How do we find an effecive long term partner for Young? We will still need a prolific goal scorer in the forward most position not just a so called defensive striker.
We need someone on 2m pounds a year salary with wide experience of European football to sort this out. Come on Rene .... this is made for you. :) :)
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---NRC---Petrov---Sidwell---
-------Young---Ireland--------
-----------Agbonlahor---------
Could this be the Villa narrow boat slamming into PL icebergs?
Why'd you say that? When we play with wingers, it's Downing on the left who's soft as shit. Defensively, he may as well not be there, so there's a straight line through to Warnock (coincidence that he's looked shit with Downing in front of him?). In this system, there's still a left-sided defensive midfielder to deal with. He'll (hopefully) give Warnock the cover he needs to prevent him being pulled all over the pitch).
On the other side there's Albrighton who has been found lacking with his defensive positioning. However, I've no doubt he'll learn...fast!
The flexibility that Rancid Custard has demonstrated should provide Houllier with enough options to counter just about any opposition formation you'd care to mention.
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Troy I am not necessarily negative of VSM's suggestion...it is just a question. It could turn out to be a an ice cutter solid, stable but sharp upfront. I do agree with your comments about Downing/Warnock waekness.
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You can't play Ireland and Young both in central free roles and literally no-one on the right. Luke Young would get crucified and we would lack shape.
Asking Ireland to start from a right hand side position and come inside, a bit like berger did on the left, is an option, but he wouldn't like it.
Why wouldn't he like it?
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---NRC---Petrov---Sidwell---
-------Young---Ireland--------
-----------Agbonlahor---------
Hang on a minute my Subby buddy. Even from half the world away, surely you know by now that NRC and Sid just aren't up to Prem standards
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If Barry Bannan improve and keep up the good work I would like to see a midfield
Albrighton Reo Coker Downing/Bannan
Young Ireland
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You've got to look, at the moment, at a fluid 4-2-3-1 with Petrov and NRC holding and an attacking trio of Ireland, Young and Albrighton/Downing/Bannan (I'd probably go with Albrighton) behind Gabby/Heskey/Carew (I'd definitely go with Gabby). It's good to have a squad, it's good to have good players on the bench, it's good to be able to rotate, to bring in players better suited to certain games around a solid base and spine to the team, and above all it's good to have players with the intelligence to interchange positions from wide, to central, to the other wing, whatever. I feel quite good about this team.
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I think in order for that formation to work, then you need mobility up top, which counts Carew out.
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I'd go with something like this (ignoring the defence and GK):
-----------------NRC----Petrov---------------
----Albrighton---Ireland----Young----------
--------------------Gabby----------------------
Okay, as that is written down it completely ignores Houllier's comments however I feel the solid base provided by Petrov and NRC would allow all three attacking players to interchange during the game. This would make the players harder to mark and also create a bit of competition between Ireland and Young when they're playing the hollywood central role.
With Downing and Bannan there should also be the opportunity to rest players as well.
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If heskey could keep playing as he did on weds then I'd go with him as the main striker as his link up play is better than Carew or gabby- the downside is none of those 3 are prolific finishers and that is something we've lacked for many years.
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I'd go with something like this (ignoring the defence and GK):
-----------------NRC----Petrov---------------
----Albrighton---Ireland----Young----------
--------------------Gabby----------------------
Okay, as that is written down it completely ignores Houllier's comments however I feel the solid base provided by Petrov and NRC would allow all three attacking players to interchange during the game. This would make the players harder to mark and also create a bit of competition between Ireland and Young when they're playing the hollywood central role.
With Downing and Bannan there should also be the opportunity to rest players as well.
I agree with that, Dante. Ireland and Young are intelligent enough players not to think "I'm a left winger, therefore I never leave the touchline" or "I'm a central midfielder, therefore I never leave the middle". One thing you noticed under MON was how players were totally pinned into their specific areas of the pitch, and we got oh so predictable.
East, if Heskey does start producing that form on a regular basis, he has to be a strong contendor for the first team. I'm also coming around to your "one out-and-out winger" idea, with Ash/Ireland playing more as inside forwards.
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I still don't think Young does enough in the free role imo, certainly no more than Ireland would imo.
Would say prefer Young out wide with licence to drift into the box when we cross from the right as happened on wednesday night.
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Assuming that we play a rigid and non-flexible formation al la MON, to play Young in the central role means that Ireland will have to be shoe-horned into an unfamiliar position. This would negate his quality.
Therefore if I had to pick one player to play behind a striker it'd be Ireland as Young has proven that he is already a class winger.
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Ireland is most effective behind the strikers and Mr H will be working on how to arrange that ......
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I'm still not sold 100% on Young being central. I think he's played well there, but has it really been any better than when he was wide?
I think we know it works now and it will remain an option, but I'd rather him revert to a the left and get Ireland in the side, thus giving us another potential match winner playing.
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I think it would be better to have Young as more of an inside-left, with greater license to cut in and be more central when we have the ball than Albrighton/Downing on the other wing, with Ireland playing more as a central player. In any case, it would hopefully be fluid enough that if there's space on the left and Ireland is in the best position to move into it and exploit it, then he would go there. I think it was Fergie who said that fixed positions only really matter when you don't have the ball, that all the rest of it is about moving and trying to find and make space, wherever it turns up.