Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: TimTheVillain on September 14, 2010, 11:35:56 AM
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http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2010/09/14/kevin-macdonald-admits-his-future-may-lie-away-from-aston-villa-97319-27261910/
What a balls up.
He should have been managed better than he has been; I do wonder about the Executives at AVFC these days.
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Pig's ear, is what you might call it.
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Have to say that it is all a bit of a fiasco. We are just drifting aimlessly until Houllier actually starts his job... whenever that is?
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I did think this would happen. He's had a crack at management and quite enjoys it but we are not giving him the chance. There will be a job out there for him. I would love him to stay but you cannot blame him.
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Mon`s actions have screwed up this club well and truly - Lerner`s reliance on a CEO with no experience in football is making matters worse. KMac has been a superb manager for the reserves - he does not appear to be suited to a promotion, however I hope he is rewarded for his efforts. To be without managers, coaches, scouts at this stage in a season must have a demoralising effect on the players at senior/reserve level. I am now beginning to fear what the consequences may be - Perhaps running a Pl team as well as an NFL team is a step too far and both organisations will suffer as a result.
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I'll be sorry to see Kev leave. He's done a fantastic job with the reserves and I would like to see him continue.
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These two paragraphs could be interesting:-
“I wasn’t tempted (to be Houllier’s assistant). I’d always thought that when I never got the job that I wasn’t going to do it. I need to re-think what I may want to do. Whether I want to go to try and be a manager. Some people might think I might make a good manager, other people may think I may not.”
“He asked me on Friday to do certain things. I work for AVFC – as caretaker – if Mr Houllier asks me to go scouting then I will.”
Could be his way of saying it's not out of the question that he'd work with Houllier afterall.
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Sad news but another example of how the clubs being run- after newastle and Vienna he can have no complaints but randy's handling of the whole appointment process has been far from good.
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He’s not up to being a manger. He’s far too naive with certain aspects of the game. Hopefully he’ll stay on and have some involvement with the first team. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s been bitten by the bug and wants to try his hand at management though.
I don’t see how the board are to blame really. They couldn’t give the man the job, he’s nowhere near good enough and apart from Tony McAndrew, who on Earth could have taken over the caretaker role? It goes back to a point Sir GT made about having club men in coaching and scouting positions who aren’t attached to the manager.
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He done a great job at Villa, but did he really expect to get the job? As for balls up, see Martin O'Neill.
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Disgrace. Absolute disgrace. Put yourself in his shoes. Your boss is leaving and you are asked by his boss to consider applying for the job. You do this and in so doing raise your head above the parapet and stand to lose considerable face in front of your staff if you do not get it. Then you don't get it. And what's more, you are then asked to fill in for the new guy until he can serve his notice from his existing employers. You would be off like a shot or at the first available opportunity.
An extremely poor way to treat a long serving and very valuable employee. I am very concerned at the direction the club is taking and only hope I am completely wrong about my underlying nervousness.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
I agree totally - lets hope the General hasn`t gone back into his bunker, because right now I think the fans deserve some kind of statement that the CEO should be delivering in respect of Houllier`s date of arrival etc
"Proud History - Tight future" seems more apt at the minute
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I fail to see what difference being asked to manage the Stoke game would have on his decision. He rightly didn’t get the top job, but there was only TM that they could have asked to fill the breach after O’Neill’s departure. What could the board have done?
It’s quite staggering how much unnecessary criticism the board have come in for recently and how quick fans have turned.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
How on earth do you not think that O'Neil leaving is the single biggest contributor to all of what has happened over the last 5 weeks.
Manager went
Assistant Manager
Coach
Physio
Scout - that fucker knew exactly what he was doing and the fact that the timing would have had the most devastating effect. He knew that a successor would be so difficult to find and ultimately us punters (not me) would eventually turn on the board as they tried to keep it all together
Some would say he is a very calculated and cunning man (MON)
I would say he is a ****** of the highest order.
As for Kev Mac - west Ham was great, Newcastle a disaster, Rapid an embarrassment, Everton nerve wracking, last night again inexperience and niavety was apparrant. And lets face it he has done enough of the messing about in the press as the board ar perceived to have done "Will i wont I, do i want the joh i am not sure"
THis aint a sweetshop you were asked to look after - it was the mighty Aston Villa - if you have the hump then thanks for the effort of tha past but no fuck off also - we want people here who want to be here
JUst like with MON - its an honour for you to be with us - not the other way round
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What a mess. He was thrust into a job he initially didn't seem keen on. Really, no sooner than Martin walked out, we should have been working on getting a new fulltime manager.
Weeks of fannying around to see how KMac did, despite vocally never seeming remotely sure whether he wanted the role, mean were now still weeks away from having the new man up and running.
No sooner than it was apparent Kevin didn't 100% want the job, than we should have shifted into top gear. Right off the bat he was not exactly keen as mustard. And as has been shown, he's not got the credentials for the job. We've looked tactically naive under Mac. Not his fault he's put in a situation out of his comfort level.
And for him to still be doing the job after we've hired someone, is ludicrous. We should have kept the Houllier thing quiet and worked it out behind the scenes, and announced it WHEN he's ready to start. Ludicrous. Again, Randy's background isn't football. He's still learning, but he's handled this naively. I also have serious doubts about Faulkner.
Above all though, Martin has really twatted us leaving when he did. Arsehole! He could have left in May, head held high with some good grace, but his legacy will now be ditching us and leaving the club in a mess.
Wish Mac all the best though, whether he stays or go.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
Whilst I appreciate the angst and sympathise, it all stems from Mons late exit and not helped by the paucity of squad and tactics he elft behind.
I'm not totally convinced with the decision to announce Ged and then not announce his start date, but is it wrong to have in RL and Houllier 2 men who seem to want to honour contracts and play by the book. I'd prefer that than one who leaves us in the shit to furnace his own ego.
Its far from a satisfactory situation, but even when he takes over its going to be some time before the squad overcomes performances like Newcastle and Stoke. It seems RL has taken a calculated gamble and on last nights showing its not working.
such is life. In a time when most fans wax lyrically about the double standards and false dealing within football, we seem to have 2 men who don't.
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Well not unexpected as he will always think that it will be difficult when you have applied for the top job to stay around. What I cannot understand is why he will not even consider being the assistant manager as surely thats they next logical step in his career and lets be honest is fair and good recognistion to the job he has done in caretaker role and for long excellent service to the club. I cannot see him getting a job anytime soon that is better than assistant manager at Aston Villa.
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I said this would be the case. I know the board appreciated his efforts and gave him an interview, but he was never going to get the job on the patchy results achieved in his caretaker role. Randy should have given him a bonus and got GH to give him a role in first team coaching. It was always on the cards however that he would want to move on and try his hand at management now.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
I agree totally - lets hope the General hasn`t gone back into his bunker, because right now I think the fans deserve some kind of statement that the CEO should be delivering in respect of Houllier`s date of arrival etc
"Proud History - Tight future" seems more apt at the minute
I think the General is finding that commanding armed forces is a very different ball game to communicating with football fans.
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There is absolutely no doubt that the turmoil that MON created has hit the club for six, but that was a few weeks ago now and yet still there seem to be confusion and a general lack of effective management of the situation. The club have got to get a handle on this, as this aimless drifting is not good for anyone and this would simply not be tolerated out in the real corporate world.
The club has done so many things right in the last four years and has been very professionally run, but this has really damaged our reputation and the seeming lack of crisis and risk management is all rather worrying.
I do not wish to knock Randy, the General and co who have done an incredible job and were dealt a massive blow by an egotistical pillock who deliberately shafted the club and the fans. However this crisis called for strong decisive management, not just in finding the right replacement, but also in managing those within the storm, namely Kevin Mc, the players and the fans. I just don’t believe they have done this effectively and if just hope that once this is resolved, the damage is not too great and lessons are well and truly learned about managing risk and enduring there is succession management no matter what.
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Not really. The only people who whinge and moan more than football fans are those in the military.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
How on earth do you not think that O'Neil leaving is the single biggest contributor to all of what has happened over the last 5 weeks.
Manager went
Assistant Manager
Coach
Physio
Scout - that fucker knew exactly what he was doing and the fact that the timing would have had the most devastating effect. He knew that a successor would be so difficult to find and ultimately us punters (not me) would eventually turn on the board as they tried to keep it all together
Some would say he is a very calculated and cunning man (MON)
I would say he is a c*** of the highest order.
As for Kev Mac - west Ham was great, Newcastle a disaster, Rapid an embarrassment, Everton nerve wracking, last night again inexperience and niavety was apparrant. And lets face it he has done enough of the messing about in the press as the board ar perceived to have done "Will i wont I, do i want the joh i am not sure"
THis aint a sweetshop you were asked to look after - it was the mighty Aston Villa - if you have the hump then thanks for the effort of tha past but no fuck off also - we want people here who want to be here
JUst like with MON - its an honour for you to be with us - not the other way round
Whist I might have worded it differently- my thoughts exactly.
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what a ridiculous farcical fuck up this whole summer has been...
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AV Management have been piss poor on this. Once the statement was made that new Manager must have PL experience than why didn't the CEO talk to KMac to tell him not to apply and assure him that his job as Reserve Coach is safe as long as he wants it? Why raise his expectation by interviewing him? The people management side of our CEO leaves a lot to be desired.
We are the laughing stock of the media today. FFS I understand GH has commitments but why not lay out the plan right at the start last Friday so that everyone understands where they are?
On Saturday we will have a man in charge who is totally disappointed with the goings on trying to motivate the team to win a football match. A complete farce.
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To be fair if he wants to go, go. I really couldn't be arsed right now. Well, clearly I can. But if he doesn't want to be here anymore then go at the earliest opportunity. We need to have stability and if that means losing McDonald then so be it.
EDIT: Just seen Hookey's post and I agree with it wholeheartedly.
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this is stupid, get houllier in asap
what i dont get is when people like me and u resign from a job we have to work notice ( fair enough ) but if you didnt want to work notice you wouldnt get paid for it...
part of me thinks that houllier "didnt really want this job" but for 8 million quid he thought "why not"
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this is stupid, get houllier in asap
what i dont get is when people like me and u resign from a job we have to work notice ( fair enough ) but if you didnt want to work notice you wouldnt get paid for it...
part of me thinks that houllier "didnt really want this job" but for 8 million quid he thought "why not"
Blimey mate.
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I'm really not sure I understand Kevin's stance here. Yes, he might be disappointed at not getting the manager's job but seriously - could we have appointed him? I don't think so, it would have been a big step-up and too much of a risk, in my view. But then he's offered the assistant manager's role, which in itself is a big promotion from reserve team manager in terms of experience and exposure - working with first team players every day, working alongside the manager, dealing far more regularly with the media - and turns it down. Did he not see the potential in being No.2 to a 63-year-old, bearing in mind how highly he's thought of by the bosses at the club? Could he not see the long-term game plan?
I hope it works out for him and he stays here... but I don't want to see him being cast as some kind of victim of the piece.
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How I miss those AGMs.
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Is there a book open anywhere and if so what are the odds on Houllier never taking up the manager's post.
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If this fucking pantomime was being played at St Andrews, we'd all be pissing oursleves larfin'
O'Neill leaving was the start of this, maybe, ( although until/if we ever find out the reasons for him leaving we can only speculate) but our board's reaction to it has been absolutely rank amateur.
I'm getting more than pissed off now
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And the Yank circus goes round again.
Bright future? My ass.
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Why is it a Yank circus?
I am finding the criticism of the board here incredible. I’ll say it for a third time, what on Earth were the board meant to do? It was either MacDonald or McAndrew and the former has clearly got the managing bug.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
How on earth do you not think that O'Neil leaving is the single biggest contributor to all of what has happened over the last 5 weeks.
Manager went
Assistant Manager
Coach
Physio
Scout - that fucker knew exactly what he was doing and the fact that the timing would have had the most devastating effect. He knew that a successor would be so difficult to find and ultimately us punters (not me) would eventually turn on the board as they tried to keep it all together
Some would say he is a very calculated and cunning man (MON)
I would say he is a c*** of the highest order.
As for Kev Mac - west Ham was great, Newcastle a disaster, Rapid an embarrassment, Everton nerve wracking, last night again inexperience and niavety was apparrant. And lets face it he has done enough of the messing about in the press as the board ar perceived to have done "Will i wont I, do i want the joh i am not sure"
THis aint a sweetshop you were asked to look after - it was the mighty Aston Villa - if you have the hump then thanks for the effort of tha past but no fuck off also - we want people here who want to be here
JUst like with MON - its an honour for you to be with us - not the other way round
Think your spot on to be honest. All the shit at the start, I want it, I don't want it, Im not sure, I wan't it.
he isn't good enough to be manager, It is a shame he can't stay on he was doing a brilliant job with the youth but we'll move on.
We always do
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Why is it a Yank circus?
I am finding the criticism of the board here incredible. I’ll say it for a third time, what on Earth were the board meant to do? It was either MacDonald or McAndrew and the former has clearly got the managing bug.
Made a big post last night on why it was a Yank circus last night. Check my post history, should be fairly recent.
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Why is it a Yank circus?
I am finding the criticism of the board here incredible. I’ll say it for a third time, what on Earth were the board meant to do? It was either MacDonald or McAndrew and the former has clearly got the managing bug.
Made a big post last night on why it was a Yank circus last night. Check my post history, should be fairly recent.
Yes on your first two points on that were jackanory. I ask again, how is this a Yank circus? What were the alternatives? MacDonald has a taste for management, how was that avoidable? An appointment within 5 days of O'Neill leaving? Was that realistic?
The volte face from many is remarkable. From four years of superlatives to disparagements with “Yank” and ridiculous conspiracy theories mushrooming- making any legitimate criticism lost amongst all the nonsense.
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Why is it a Yank circus?
I am finding the criticism of the board here incredible. I’ll say it for a third time, what on Earth were the board meant to do? It was either MacDonald or McAndrew and the former has clearly got the managing bug.
I think you are missing the point. And it is quite fundamental. He was encouraged to apply for the post so must have thought he had a decent chance of getting it. Hence he is now feeling rightly down about the whole debacle.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
How on earth do you not think that O'Neil leaving is the single biggest contributor to all of what has happened over the last 5 weeks.
Manager went
Assistant Manager
Coach
Physio
Scout - that fucker knew exactly what he was doing and the fact that the timing would have had the most devastating effect. He knew that a successor would be so difficult to find and ultimately us punters (not me) would eventually turn on the board as they tried to keep it all together
Some would say he is a very calculated and cunning man (MON)
I would say he is a c*** of the highest order.
As for Kev Mac - west Ham was great, Newcastle a disaster, Rapid an embarrassment, Everton nerve wracking, last night again inexperience and niavety was apparrant. And lets face it he has done enough of the messing about in the press as the board ar perceived to have done "Will i wont I, do i want the joh i am not sure"
THis aint a sweetshop you were asked to look after - it was the mighty Aston Villa - if you have the hump then thanks for the effort of tha past but no fuck off also - we want people here who want to be here
JUst like with MON - its an honour for you to be with us - not the other way round
I'd also go as far as being adamant that he was reacting to press speculation re: Mark Hughes and waited until he was in place at Fulham before quitting. I really do think he was being that vidictive.
In respect to KMAC I really don't understand why he wouldn;t want the no.2 job either and it is a shame, because we could see for long periods of last night what a positive effect his coaching has had on the first team. Some of our football was the best I have seen for some time!
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Why is it a Yank circus?
I am finding the criticism of the board here incredible. I’ll say it for a third time, what on Earth were the board meant to do? It was either MacDonald or McAndrew and the former has clearly got the managing bug.
What they were to do was say to him from the start that they were looking for an experienced man to take over from O'Neill but they'd like to promote him to have more involvement with first team affairs. Thereby keeping him involved and not piling disruption on top of disruption.
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Absolutely. I couldn't have put it better myself.
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Why is it a Yank circus?
I am finding the criticism of the board here incredible. I’ll say it for a third time, what on Earth were the board meant to do? It was either MacDonald or McAndrew and the former has clearly got the managing bug.
I think you are missing the point. And it is quite fundamental. He was encouraged to apply for the post so must have thought he had a decent chance of getting it. Hence he is now feeling rightly down about the whole debacle.
He had a chance and he blew it through his own inadequacies, thankfully for the rest of us. He only has himself to blame for that. Lerner gave him an opportunity and he failed to grasp it, why should he be disappointed with anybody but Kevin MacDonald?
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Why is it a Yank circus?
I am finding the criticism of the board here incredible. I’ll say it for a third time, what on Earth were the board meant to do? It was either MacDonald or McAndrew and the former has clearly got the managing bug.
I think you are missing the point. And it is quite fundamental. He was encouraged to apply for the post so must have thought he had a decent chance of getting it. Hence he is now feeling rightly down about the whole debacle.
He was initially encouraged however he then spent weeks yes/no'ing which I would take as an owner to be concerning and unconvincing. Had he said he was unsure but was willing to give it a go with some assurances then I think we'd have had a manager weeks ago. As it is he seemed to put doubts in everyones minds and when it came to 'the crunch' I wouldn't be surprised if his uncertainty made RL question him somewhat. And rightly so, when comparedto someone of GH's stature in the game.
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I would be as disappointed as the next fan if McDonald decided to leave us and try his hand elsewhere, but I don't see it as a disaster. To my way of thinking, there isn't much more the club could have done that we're aware of anyway. McDonald is a professional, not a little kid, and to be passed over for a 'promotion' in this way happens to the best of us. He knew what the situation was and put his hat into the ring when the opportunity presented itself; he didn't get the job, end of. Personally I think McDonald has done us all proud by stepping up to the plate but I don't think he's good enough to have gotten the gig anyway and I for one am champing at the bit to see Houllier tackle the job now.
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He had the chance to be tutored by a very experienced European manager and he turned that down. I think that will count against him.
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Sorry but i don't get what the story really is here? K-Mac says he may or may not want to go in to management proper and is not sure whether or not he wants to return to the position of reserve team manager. And?
I don't think this shows any failings on the boards part at all. Once given the caretaker manager's role K-Mac was unsure initially whether or not he wanted to apply for the position permanently, because he liked his previous role so much. He applies but doesn't get it because it is given to a better man with much more experience. Maybe now he has had a taste for first team management he fances a crack at it himself, then again maybe it's just a flippant comment and he will be quite happy to back to what he was happily doing beforehand. Either way fair play to him, but i don't see anything to criticise the board for. They have given him their support all along and made it clear that they envisage him as being a central part of the club.
Personally i think he's just angling for a pay rise when he returns to his old position.
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the board encouraged him to go public and say he wanted the job , he should have been discreetly told thanks but no thanks after his 4th game before going public about applying , now everyone knows he applied and was turned down , could have been handled far far better !
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He shouldn't have been asked to apply in the first place.
It was obvious that the board were looking for a lot more experience than he has on his CV to date, so he should not have been encouraged to apply - in fact, he should have been told he was a temporary manager while one with the right CV was appointed and paid as a Manager while he was acting Manager.
That's why it was handled badly, he was asked if he was interested, after a while he said he was, then he was discounted on lack of experience.
No wonder he's pissed off, I think we led him down the garden path here.
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He has said a few times how MON had helped him, and how he learned from him. This seems to include how to have a hissy fit, and throw the toys out.
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It's not necessarily the boards fault, this.
Due to unforeseen circumstances, he got a taste for senior management. Decided (eventually) that he liked it and wanted more.
He applied for the vacant Villa managers job, but after a less than impressive audition (which was a headstart on all the other candidates) didn't get the gig.
But having tried it, he thinks he wouldn't mind it again. If not here, perhaps elsewhere.
His prerogative. Thanks for your fantastic contribution for well over a decade, particularly these difficult past few weeks.
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The board wanted him to have the job and gave him every possible opportunity to make a decent fist of his caretakership. That's why the whole process took so long.
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you only have to look back at the threads just after the west ham result to see there were a lot of people, me included ,that thought he should be given decent chance of proving himself for the job,
he was. and didnt come up to standard,
the board obviously came to the same opinion as most on here in the end, theres nothing wrong with giving the bloke a chance, it just didnt work out
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They did want someone with experience of managing a Premier League side but obviously made an exception in Kevin's case as he's part of the furniture at the club (I know there's that elderly gentleman Jack who does the tours, but are there many other members of staff that have been here longer?) and he's done such a good job in his usual role. Maybe the board were a bit naive and put too much faith in him. Yanks valuing loyalty may be a horrible generalisation but they seem to have put too much faith in MacDonald.
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Reports in the papers this morning: Kevin MacDonald will ask to be released from his contract at Aston Villa "because of a growing sense he was poorly treated by the club's American owner, Randy Lerner, over the replacement of Martin O'Neill as manager."
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The board wanted him to have the job and gave him every possible opportunity to make a decent fist of his caretakership. That's why the whole process took so long.
and of course, he's made an absolute arse of it. Which is why I find it incredible that we don't know when Houllier will start, and that MacDonald continues to run the football side of things
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Fickle Pit Vipers. It's all true.
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Fickle Pit Vipers. It's all true.
No no no. We're not fickle we...
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I think we all got giddy after the West Ham game,we did play really well,but West Ham are a really poor team this season,and the other performances(apart from Stoke first half) havent been good enough.
I think Kev Mac would be realistic enough to know that he's not up to scratch to get the job. Its a shame that pride,stubborness,ego,whatever you wanna call it,got in the way of him taking the assistants job,as i think he would've been ideal for that role.
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You can't just become a top flight Manager overnight - if KevMac was of the right material, he'd have been one a while ago, so, recognising this rather than pushing him forward (in hope more than anything) only to find out that he wasn't 'up to the job' so to speak, should have been managed very carefully so as not to get to this state of affairs where we have a) lost our Manager ( O'Runner) b) 'replaced' him with a temporary Manager who was managing the reserves very well and it appears now wants to leave the club because the firts team job wasn't made permanent and to c) appoint a firat team Manager who hasn't got a start date !!
Only at Villa.
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The board wanted him to have the job and gave him every possible opportunity to make a decent fist of his caretakership. That's why the whole process took so long.
If they had wanted him to have the job they would have given it to him surely?
Every possible opportunity? You're joking - 3 league games - Won 2, lost 1, 2 clean sheets and 2 home wins out of 2, 66% win record!!
As for Europa matches, we know what they mean to the club don't we?
It's a pity Fergie wasn't only given 3-5 games - we might then have won the first ever Premiership instead of finishing 2nd and history may have been re-written!
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The board wanted him to have the job and gave him every possible opportunity to make a decent fist of his caretakership. That's why the whole process took so long.
If they had wanted him to have the job they would have given it to him surely?
Every possible opportunity? You're joking - 3 league games - Won 2, lost 1, 2 clean sheets and 2 home wins out of 2, 66% win record!!
As for Europa matches, we know what they mean to the club don't we?
It's a pity Fergie wasn't only given 3-5 games - we might then have won the first ever Premiership instead of finishing 2nd and history may have been re-written!
One win over a side who will struggle to stay up, one humiliating away defeat, one shambolic defensive performance against a second-rate European side (which they really wanted to win) and a lucky home win. You can believe it or not, but everything I've heard points to the board giving Kev every opportunity to prove himself.
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The board wanted him to have the job and gave him every possible opportunity to make a decent fist of his caretakership. That's why the whole process took so long.
If they had wanted him to have the job they would have given it to him surely?
Every possible opportunity? You're joking - 3 league games - Won 2, lost 1, 2 clean sheets and 2 home wins out of 2, 66% win record!!
As for Europa matches, we know what they mean to the club don't we?
It's a pity Fergie wasn't only given 3-5 games - we might then have won the first ever Premiership instead of finishing 2nd and history may have been re-written!
MacDonald fucked it up big time. One good home performance, one good away performance, then Newcastle and the of course the manner of the Everton victory inspired nobody.
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You can't just become a top flight Manager overnight - if KevMac was of the right material, he'd have been one a while ago, so, recognising this rather than pushing him forward (in hope more than anything) only to find out that he wasn't 'up to the job' so to speak, should have been managed very carefully so as not to get to this state of affairs where we have a) lost our Manager ( O'Runner) b) 'replaced' him with a temporary Manager who was managing the reserves very well and it appears now wants to leave the club because the firts team job wasn't made permanent and to c) appoint a firat team Manager who hasn't got a start date !!
Only at Villa.
I agree,how old his he now,early 50s? Having done a great job with the reserves for so long now,surely another club wouldve spotted his potential and snapped him up before now. Its a shame that if he leaves the club,he will slip down the divisions,maybe off the football radar.
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You can't just become a top flight Manager overnight - if KevMac was of the right material, he'd have been one a while ago, so, recognising this rather than pushing him forward (in hope more than anything) only to find out that he wasn't 'up to the job' so to speak, should have been managed very carefully so as not to get to this state of affairs where we have a) lost our Manager ( O'Runner) b) 'replaced' him with a temporary Manager who was managing the reserves very well and it appears now wants to leave the club because the firts team job wasn't made permanent and to c) appoint a firat team Manager who hasn't got a start date !!
Only at Villa.
I agree,how old his he now,early 50s? Having done a great job with the reserves for so long now,surely another club wouldve spotted his potential and snapped him up before now. Its a shame that if he leaves the club,he will slip down the divisions,maybe off the football radar.
I guess you could see him at Bescott or the likes and not being paid an awful lot while still being under great pressure to deliver.
Actually, if he did drop down few divsions to Manage and wasn't a success, he would drop off the football radar.
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The board wanted him to have the job and gave him every possible opportunity to make a decent fist of his caretakership. That's why the whole process took so long.
If they had wanted him to have the job they would have given it to him surely?
Every possible opportunity? You're joking - 3 league games - Won 2, lost 1, 2 clean sheets and 2 home wins out of 2, 66% win record!!
As for Europa matches, we know what they mean to the club don't we?
It's a pity Fergie wasn't only given 3-5 games - we might then have won the first ever Premiership instead of finishing 2nd and history may have been re-written!
One win over a side who will struggle to stay up, one humiliating away defeat, one shambolic defensive performance against a second-rate European side (which they really wanted to win) and a lucky home win. You can believe it or not, but everything I've heard points to the board giving Kev every opportunity to prove himself.
To be a good manager (not just in football) you need time to build your own team, time to learn strengths and weaknesses of your existing team to get the best out of them and 3 weeks is definitely not long enough to prove yourself in any job (Remember last season we lost at Home to Wigan on day 1!! but reached 6th, a cup semi and a cup final).
Man City have won only one league game and Mancini has spent £200m on his own choice of players. MacDonald never had the chance to buy to improve, he had only existing players to work with, so on that premise Mancini is not good enough and as he has had every opportunity to make a decent fist of it he should be replaced now -by MON perhaps!.
The truth of the matter is that nobody knows what sort of job MacDonald would have done given time and if the board had wanted him then, in my opinion, they would have appointed him and given him that time!
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The Newcastle game was incredibly telling. You can't justify giving a manager time after a result so obscene as that, with so many deficiencies on display against such dire opposition.
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With all the talk about KMac being demotivated, and not going to put the most into Saturday's game. To be brutally honest if he doesn't have the professional pride to put in 100%, then fuck him and good riddance.
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However good KM was at Reserve Level, and by all accounts he is an excellent coach, Premiership Football is a completely different matter altogether. I cannot believe that the Board at any point thought that KM would make any fist of it, even before the season started, without ANY sort of track record in top flight football.
For them to even allow him to throw his hat in the ring, seems quite crass to me.
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How on earth have we got to this sorry state of affairs? O'Neill leaving isn't an excuse for this fiasco, every day seems to bring more bad news at the moment.
How on earth do you not think that O'Neil leaving is the single biggest contributor to all of what has happened over the last 5 weeks.
Manager went
Assistant Manager
Coach
Physio
Scout - that fucker knew exactly what he was doing and the fact that the timing would have had the most devastating effect. He knew that a successor would be so difficult to find and ultimately us punters (not me) would eventually turn on the board as they tried to keep it all together
Some would say he is a very calculated and cunning man (MON)
I would say he is a c*** of the highest order.
As for Kev Mac - west Ham was great, Newcastle a disaster, Rapid an embarrassment, Everton nerve wracking, last night again inexperience and niavety was apparrant. And lets face it he has done enough of the messing about in the press as the board ar perceived to have done "Will i wont I, do i want the joh i am not sure"
THis aint a sweetshop you were asked to look after - it was the mighty Aston Villa - if you have the hump then thanks for the effort of tha past but no fuck off also - we want people here who want to be here
JUst like with MON - its an honour for you to be with us - not the other way round
Exactly mate. Exactly that right there.
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The board wanted him to have the job and gave him every possible opportunity to make a decent fist of his caretakership. That's why the whole process took so long.
If they had wanted him to have the job they would have given it to him surely?
Every possible opportunity? You're joking - 3 league games - Won 2, lost 1, 2 clean sheets and 2 home wins out of 2, 66% win record!!
As for Europa matches, we know what they mean to the club don't we?
It's a pity Fergie wasn't only given 3-5 games - we might then have won the first ever Premiership instead of finishing 2nd and history may have been re-written!
One win over a side who will struggle to stay up, one humiliating away defeat, one shambolic defensive performance against a second-rate European side (which they really wanted to win) and a lucky home win. You can believe it or not, but everything I've heard points to the board giving Kev every opportunity to prove himself.
To be a good manager (not just in football) you need time to build your own team, time to learn strengths and weaknesses of your existing team to get the best out of them and 3 weeks is definitely not long enough to prove yourself in any job (Remember last season we lost at Home to Wigan on day 1!! but reached 6th, a cup semi and a cup final).
Man City have won only one league game and Mancini has spent £200m on his own choice of players. MacDonald never had the chance to buy to improve, he had only existing players to work with, so on that premise Mancini is not good enough and as he has had every opportunity to make a decent fist of it he should be replaced now -by MON perhaps!.
The truth of the matter is that nobody knows what sort of job MacDonald would have done given time and if the board had wanted him then, in my opinion, they would have appointed him and given him that time!
Using that rationale, what do you think of Houllier's chances ?
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The truth of the matter is that nobody knows what sort of job MacDonald would have done given time and if the board had wanted him then, in my opinion, they would have appointed him and given him that time!
It took Kevin MacDonald a mighty long time to even decide if he wanted the job! Once his mind was finally made up, his very brief stint in charge raised concerns. I think that if he had immediately jumped at the opportunity, showing the board how desperate he was to accept the challenge of managing Villa, I think he would have gotten the job.
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If he want to do management - he will have to drop a couple of division and work his way up. Would any small club be interested as he is in his 50s and didn't impress in first 2 months of Villa management.
I would stick with the Villa reserve.
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He isn't good enough end of. If he can't see Young does not work in the free role there is no hope
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To be a good manager (not just in football) you need time to build your own team, time to learn strengths and weaknesses of your existing team to get the best out of them and 3 weeks is definitely not long enough to prove yourself in any job (Remember last season we lost at Home to Wigan on day 1!! but reached 6th, a cup semi and a cup final).
Man City have won only one league game and Mancini has spent £200m on his own choice of players. MacDonald never had the chance to buy to improve, he had only existing players to work with, so on that premise Mancini is not good enough and as he has had every opportunity to make a decent fist of it he should be replaced now -by MON perhaps!.
The truth of the matter is that nobody knows what sort of job MacDonald would have done given time and if the board had wanted him then, in my opinion, they would have appointed him and given him that time!
If any of us on here had the job it wouldn't have taken long to see we weren't up to it. In Kev's case it took about a fortnight.
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Not only that Dave he's profile isnt big enough. He's not the man I want to see, Maybe under Doug but not now. best place for him ia back in charge of the reserves he was doing a belting job
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For all the talk of the players wanted him, maybe they wanted him because he was a soft touch.
Like the sub Maths teacher that the more rowdy students can bully.
I'm possibly doing him a disservice as he does seem well respected, but I've seen nothing in the glut of games we've had so far to indicate that he was cut out for the role long term. If the players were playing for him, determined for him to get the gig they've a funny way of showing it.
We generally start bright enough but everytime we concede we go to pieces.
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He isn't good enough end of. If he can't see Young does not work in the free role there is no hope
Is that the free role that many posters on here over the past couple of years have said that he should play in? He operated in that role quite successfully 2/3 seasons back. Also would you be pleased to be given only 3 weeks in a new job to prove your worth with no opportunity to change things and get your own team together?
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He isn't good enough end of. If he can't see Young does not work in the free role there is no hope
Is that the free role that many posters on here over the past couple of years have said that he should play in? He operated in that role quite successfully 2/3 seasons back.
That was before we had Ireland, from the games that he has started in a deeper midfield role he hasn't been up to much although he has shown glimpses of his quality. Irelands best position is behind the striker with Young out on the left, it was only an injury to Ireland in the warm up against Everton that saw NRC return to the team. You could probably get away with a midfield 2 of Ireland and Petrov/NRC against poorer teams at home but not against the better teams, not at this point in time anyway.
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Mac is totally out of his league as a premiership manager. Hope he stays as reserve manager though ..........
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In the case of Kevin McDonald, I think that Randy and the board could see relatively quickly that were they to give him the position of manager full time, Villa Park would see a working example of the Peter Principle.
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i dont think he's going anywhere,
no one will give him a manages job, theres loads of guys out there with more experience than him who are out of work
he basicaly got a job for life, presumably on decent money, as good as he'l get anywhere else,
its just a load of balls all this talk that he's off,
as Robert Chase said about Sutton many years ago, 'he aint goin nowhere' in a broad norfolk acent
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If this fucking pantomime was being played at St Andrews, we'd all be pissing oursleves larfin'
O'Neill leaving was the start of this, maybe, ( although until/if we ever find out the reasons for him leaving we can only speculate) but our board's reaction to it has been absolutely rank amateur.
I'm getting more than pissed off now
100% what i've been thinking.
As for our rather half hearted 'search' for a new manager, the list of final interviewees was totally uninspiring. If Dave's right and the Board really wanted KMac then why, he has no experience at managing in the Prem, transfers etc. A novice is not what we needed.
However, nor is a bloke that was enjoying semi retirement with the French national federation (that bastian of footballing professionalism) and long lunches with FIFA pals.
I'm hoping to wake up at any moment and the events of the last 6 weeks will all have been a terrible nightmare.
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He isn't good enough end of. If he can't see Young does not work in the free role there is no hope
Is that the free role that many posters on here over the past couple of years have said that he should play in? He operated in that role quite successfully 2/3 seasons back. Also would you be pleased to be given only 3 weeks in a new job to prove your worth with no opportunity to change things and get your own team together?
It worked successfully and then he was found out and was crowded out of games and his effectiveness nullified. Yes, it was worth having another look and you can understand why MON didn't want Ireland if he had plans for another central-midfielder to come in and to play Ash in the hole.
However, its effectiveness is decidedly average compared to Ash's destructive runs down the left.
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If, Mon had, didn't want ?
You one of the fortunate few to have a chat with Mon then ?
KM has done his best and been found wanting. He had the squad behind him, several went on record to say so. He had plenty of 'names', Yorke, Atkinson, Little extolling his suitability and did little to impress, we just meandered along changing a few here, due probably to necessity, trying a few kids as the Board deemed necessary pre Mons exit, but still hardly modified tactics, rarely made effective substitutions, came across as a quiet indecisive man, not the sort we need to take on the residue left by Mon's departure.
Considering the many who went to great trouble to make issue with the few who originally didn't think he was good enough, few now seem keen to laud his cause, which suggests to me he didn't do well enough overall in the few weeks he had.
Nice bloke, seems to have done a decent job with the reserves, has he shown enough, against West Ham maybe, since NO.
Could anyone else have done better. We didn't have anyone, Mon took them all when he left, that's the crux. Given time he might have, IF, he'd have had some luck, or more idea/experience how to do the job, perhaps, maybe, who knows.
Houllier with perhaps 2 experienced coaches now has the task, lets hope he does better in the next 30 odd games than KM did with his few, so far.
Thing is read the other threads and I see is plenty with reasons why he, McAllister, the French guy won't, they are all experienced so what chance did he have apart from the sympathy vote, none.
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It's the Peter Principle, plain and simple.
If someobody is very good at their job, they are contuinally promoted until they get a job that they are shit at
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If, Mon had, didn't want.
I know gibberish is your forte. Well done.
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As Oscar Wilde said on the way back from Stoke the other night:
To lose one manager may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.
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i totally agree with hookeysmiths sentiments
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KMac is in the same boat as Brian kidd was - except that Kidd tried harder and earlier to be a manager. It didn't work for Kidd, and now is the time for KMac to recognise the same and get back to doing what he does best.
No embarrassment needed - he's just what he is: an apparently damned good coach.