Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Chris Smith on September 01, 2010, 12:13:17 PM
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We've only been able to announce a squad of 22 which can be topped up with the youngsters.
Here (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2141616,00.html?)
I think it shows it would have been extremely risky to let anyone else leave.
We'll need to be extremely well organised and highly motivated to maintain a top 6 place ahead of (I hope) getting some additions in January.
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It's not as bad as it at first sounds when you realise that those kids to bump it up from the 22 include Albrighton, Clark and the Fonz.
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You comments a bit misleading add to 22
Delph, Fonz, Albrighton, Clark and Bannan and you get 27 players in the squad.
We actually lost since last season Shorey, Harewood Bouma who none appeared any where the first team last season .
We lost Milner and replaced with Ireland.
Since then Clark, Albrighton and and probably Bannan has pushed nearer first team squad
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It's not as bad as it at first sounds when you realise that those kids to bump it up from the 22 include Albrighton, Clark and the Fonz.
But then the 22 includes Salifou and Osbournes, so it's back to being shit again.
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Compared to the teams we want to be in and around it does show we are very short of experience and quality past the first 11. The young lads are showing lots of promise but compare the bench we would have to any of the other teams in last seasons top 8 and you can see why we struggle when players are injured/tired/suspended.
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It's not as bad as it at first sounds when you realise that those kids to bump it up from the 22 include Albrighton, Clark and the Fonz.
But then the 22 includes Salifou and Osbournes, so it's back to being shit again.
With Shorey, Bouma and Harewood lost, who didn't feature, it's the same squad as last season with Ireland for Milner, and weren't you one of those who was classing him as a better player?
We can be competitive, with the right manager.
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It's not as bad as it at first sounds when you realise that those kids to bump it up from the 22 include Albrighton, Clark and the Fonz.
But then the 22 includes Salifou and Osbournes, so it's back to being shit again.
With Shorey, Bouma and Harewood lost, who didn't feature, it's the same squad as last season with Ireland for Milner, and weren't you one of those who was classing him as a better player?
We can be competitive, with the right manager.
Agree with the last line but I still think we're striker and a defensive midfield player light.
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Agree with the last line but I still think we're striker and a defensive midfield player light.
As do I. But that was also the case this time last year and we ended up doing OK!
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We're also need a left back. If Warnock is injured, we're in trouble in that position, as we'd have to play Luke Young there (we've seen Beye isn't up to it); and then have to play Cuellar, Beye or Lichaj at right back.
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The kids can only be played sparingly unless you want to completely burn them out.
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Agree with the last line but I still think we're striker and a defensive midfield player light.
As do I. But that was also the case this time last year and we ended up doing OK!
Yep, but Milner had a lot to do with that.
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Not sure when midfield became a position that needed a defined 'defensive' and 'attacking' midfielder.. yes, we need someone who can do the tackling job better than Petrov that's for sure, but I'd have hoped he could get forward also. If its just sit there, get the ball and try and do wsomething with I'd still be inclined to see how Sidwell could do there in the league Cup game against Blackburn.
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We were lucky with injuries last season. That may not happen this year.
Say what you want about MON, but he had the ability to get better than average results from (largely) average players. To get into top six, we don't only need a very good manager, we also need a manager who is capable of getting the best out of a particular group of players (because our squad is so thin).
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It's not as bad as it at first sounds when you realise that those kids to bump it up from the 22 include Albrighton, Clark and the Fonz.
But then the 22 includes Salifou and Osbournes, so it's back to being shit again.
With Shorey, Bouma and Harewood lost, who didn't feature, it's the same squad as last season with Ireland for Milner, and weren't you one of those who was classing him as a better player?
We can be competitive, with the right manager.
Not forgetting the loss of Delph to injury of course. It's been obvious for the last three years that we need a striker, and yet here we are, entering another season with the same old problems up front. An inconsistent Carew, an utterly inept Heskey and an overworked Gabby. And I'm tired of just doing 'ok'.
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We were lucky with injuries last season. That may not happen this year.
Say what you want about MON, but he had the ability to get better than average results from (largely) average players. To get into top six, we don't only need a very good manager, we also need a manager who is capable of getting the best out of a particular group of players (because our squad is so thin).
Rubbish. We were top 6 because we had good players not because O'Neill could motivate Ashley Young, Milner, Gabby, Dunne, Petrov etc to play above their levels.
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Talking about strikers it's curious that KM has given a few youngsters a go now but not the Fonz. Could it be he doesn't rate him?
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Not forgetting the loss of Delph to injury of course. It's been obvious for the last three years that we need a striker, and yet here we are, entering another season with the same old problems up front. An inconsistent Carew, an utterly inept Heskey and an overworked Gabby. And I'm tired of just doing 'ok'.
Other than Wigan, Delph hardly featured in a league game until the 2nd half of the season, so I don;t think it's a huge issue when comparing to 09/10.
And I used the phrase 'OK' to avoid the usual progress/stagnation debate. I actually think we did very well last season.
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Talking about strikers it's curious that KM has given a few youngsters a go now but not the Fonz. Could it be he doesn't rate him?
I mentuioned that in another thread a week or two ago. He wouldn't have even been on the bench Sunday if Ireland hadn't gotten injured.
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Osbourne and Salifou!!! I don't suppose they had much choice but it clearly outlines how weak our squad is.
I still think with a bit of luck it's good enough for mid-table though which would be a feat after the disruption so far....
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Talking about strikers it's curious that KM has given a few youngsters a go now but not the Fonz. Could it be he doesn't rate him?
I mentuioned that in another thread a week or two ago. He wouldn't have even been on the bench Sunday if Ireland hadn't gotten injured.
I noticed a comment a couple of weeks ago where KMac said "Nathan had done well last season, up to a point". I thought this was a bit weird.
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We were lucky with injuries last season. That may not happen this year.
Say what you want about MON, but he had the ability to get better than average results from (largely) average players. To get into top six, we don't only need a very good manager, we also need a manager who is capable of getting the best out of a particular group of players (because our squad is so thin).
I think that MON excelled as a man-manager with the players he liked. Last season high lighted MON's limitations in understanding tactics and appropriate use of personnel and these are two areas where I would hope a new, top quality manager would improve things dramatically. It's all very well getting players fired up, but at times last season we looked clueless due to our rigid formation and that must be quite demoralising on players.
Most people (including me) were quite enthused when Sidwell signed for us as we all recognised that he was a decent player. Last season he didn't get enough playing time to contribute but the season before, when we went on that great 4-5-1 run, he played most games. In my view, if utilised properly by the new man he could still have a part to play for us. A new manager must play players to their strengths which is something that hasn't happened recently and this may well mean that our squad starts to look a bit stronger.
A good example of this is what Moyes did with Phil Neville. Neville was a competent and experienced RB but when he moved him into a holding midfield position it was a revelation. Sometimes manager just stumble across these things (as I think Moyes did due to injuries) but a manager worth his salt will get more out of a squad by identifying what players are good at, and them making sure they know what their role is. The incoming manager will have plenty of talent to work with and it will be interesting to see if he can make the most of some of our fringe players.
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Sadly due to current circumstances this is a good opportunity missed. With most of the top clubs having to cut their senior squads as they don't have enough home growns and decent under 21s we could have taken maximum advantage of our strength in youth this transfer window. With 22 seniors named we could have signed 3 extra players of any nationality. I'm sure this has been part of the owners plan for a couple of seasons, unfortunately next year everyone will be wise to the event and any advantage will have gone.
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A good example of this is what Moyes did with Phil Neville. Neville was a competent and experienced RB but when he moved him into a holding midfield position it was a revelation. Sometimes manager just stumble across these things (as I think Moyes did due to injuries) but a manager worth his salt will get more out of a squad by identifying what players are good at, and them making sure they know what their role is. The incoming manager will have plenty of talent to work with and it will be interesting to see if he can make the most of some of our fringe players.
You could say the same for Barry being shoved into the middle, and to a certain extent Milner.
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The list in full
1. Brad Friedel
2. Brad Guzan
3. James Collins
4. Carlos Cuellar
5. Curtis Davies
6. Habib Beye
7. Richard Dunne
8. Eric Lichaj
9. Stephen Warnock
10. Luke Young
11. Stewart Downing
12. Jonathan Hogg
13. Stephen Ireland
14. Isaiah Osbourne
15. Stiliyan Petrov
16. Nigel Reo-Coker
17. Mustapha Salifou
18. Steve Sidwell
19. Ashley Young
20. Gabriel Agbonlahor
21. John Carew
22. Emile Heskey
And then the kids
23. Marc Albrighton
24. Nathan Delfouneso
25. Barry Bannan
26. Ciaran Clark
27. Fabian Delph
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The only saving grace is that if/when we get a new manager he can get loan signings in to fill the last three places (as I understand it anyway). Who the hell he will get is a different matter.
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The only saving grace is that if/when we get a new manager he can get loan signings in to fill the last three places (as I understand it anyway). Who the hell he will get is a different matter.
If what you say is true, I felt a little flutter of hope.
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With the right manager, and with a bit of luck with injuries, that squad is top 8. We need enforcements which will come in January. We don't have to achieve all of our goals in the first half of the year, we just need to be in position to attack them February onwards.
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I've been trying to find who isn't in Man City's 25, to no avail. Might make interesting reading.
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The list in full
1. Brad Friedel
2. Brad Guzan
3. James Collins
4. Carlos Cuellar
5. Curtis Davies
6. Habib Beye
7. Richard Dunne
8. Eric Lichaj
9. Stephen Warnock
10. Luke Young
11. Stewart Downing
12. Jonathan Hogg
13. Stephen Ireland
14. Isaiah Osbourne
15. Stiliyan Petrov
16. Nigel Reo-Coker
17. Mustapha Salifou
18. Steve Sidwell
19. Ashley Young
20. Gabriel Agbonlahor
21. John Carew
22. Emile Heskey
And then the kids
23. Marc Albrighton
24. Nathan Delfouneso
25. Barry Bannan
26. Ciaran Clark
27. Fabian Delph
Sorry if I'm being really stupid, but are no.s 23-27 not included in the squad due to their age and nothing else?
What exactly are the rules re this squad of 25?
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A good example of this is what Moyes did with Phil Neville. Neville was a competent and experienced RB but when he moved him into a holding midfield position it was a revelation. Sometimes manager just stumble across these things (as I think Moyes did due to injuries) but a manager worth his salt will get more out of a squad by identifying what players are good at, and them making sure they know what their role is. The incoming manager will have plenty of talent to work with and it will be interesting to see if he can make the most of some of our fringe players.
You could say the same for Barry being shoved into the middle, and to a certain extent Milner.
true but can anyone honestly see Sidwell finding his groove in any position in our side? He's been upgraded to an Ireland, basically, and should be used only in emergencies (ditto Ozzy and Sali).
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In our squad of 22 players we have in Guzan, Lichaj, Hogg and Salifou 4 players who are yet to make there Premier League debut. These are reserve team players, as is Osbourne. The 5 under 21s considered our best prospects have started 10 PL games between them. We have a paltry 17 experienced players to see us through.
Having made great strides in the last four seasons and reached a level where we are genuine competitors for a CL league spot, it's galling that the board has decided that the important thing right now is to focus on is getting to grips with wages and selling players.
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In our squad of 22 players we have in Guzan, Lichaj, Hogg and Salifou 4 players who are yet to make there Premier League debut. These are reserve team players, as is Osbourne. The 5 under 21s considered our best prospects have started 10 PL games between them. We have a paltry 17 experienced players to see us through.
Having made great strides in the last four seasons and reached a level where we are genuine competitors for a CL league spot, it's galling that the board has decided that the important thing right now is to focus on is getting to grips with wages and selling players.
If only O'Neill hadn't pissed so much of our money up the wall.
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The only saving grace is that if/when we get a new manager he can get loan signings in to fill the last three places (as I understand it anyway). Who the hell he will get is a different matter.
If what you say is true, I felt a little flutter of hope.
I'm afraid it isn't true for Premier League teams.
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I've been trying to find who isn't in Man City's 25, to no avail. Might make interesting reading.
I don't think they have any players excluded, Mancini has done a good job.
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Sorry if I'm being really stupid, but are no.s 23-27 not included in the squad due to their age and nothing else?
What exactly are the rules re this squad of 25?
Starting date Start of the 2010/2011 season.
Squad registration list must be submitted at the end of the transfer window: 31 August 2010, and then again on 31 January 2011.
Squad size limit Maximum 25 players over 21 years. No limit for under-21 players.
Age definition 1 January of the seasons starting year. 1 January 2010 for the 2010/11 season.
Home-grown quota 8 of the 25 squad places can only be filled with home-grown players. Thus, only 17 foreign-grown players (over 21 years) are allowed.
Home-grown (1) age All club registrations before the age of 21 (at the end of the season).
Home-grown (2) home All clubs registered with the English or Welsh FA.
Home-grown (3) length Minimum period of 3 seasons or 36 months (continuous or not).
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In our squad of 22 players we have in Guzan, Lichaj, Hogg and Salifou 4 players who are yet to make there Premier League debut. These are reserve team players, as is Osbourne. The 5 under 21s considered our best prospects have started 10 PL games between them. We have a paltry 17 experienced players to see us through.
Having made great strides in the last four seasons and reached a level where we are genuine competitors for a CL league spot, it's galling that the board has decided that the important thing right now is to focus on is getting to grips with wages and selling players.
If only O'Neill hadn't pissed so much of our money up the wall.
So I hear.
But then I look at what Liverpool, Man City and Spurs have spent on their squads and ask wtf? Just how much cheaper was it supposed to be for Villa compared to our competitors?
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If only O'Neill hadn't pissed so much of our money up the wall.
I don't recall you making that criticism of him while he was here.
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The squad is, more or less, the same as last season just swapping Milner for Ireland. If we are able to repeat the same level of motivation and organisation then we should be avle to achieve a similar outcome.
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If only O'Neill hadn't pissed so much of our money up the wall.
I don't recall you making that criticism of him while he was here.
That's because I never made that criticism whilst he was here. It was only a week before he left that I found out how much money Heskey is supposedly on. That coupled with the fact that I was blinded by some sort of mis-guided loyalty. I've now changed my mind, I suppose I could have just entrenched myself like some do on here.
Are you amazed that we haven't hired Mourinho yet? Considering how easy you thought it would be to get a very good replacement in?
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You comments a bit misleading add to 22
Delph, Fonz, Albrighton, Clark and Bannan and you get 27 players in the squad.
Under 21 players do not have to be "named" in the squad of 25 provided they are "home grown". They can be used at any time if required. This is a good rule as it does not restrict flow through of young players in the season.
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That's because I never made that criticism whilst he was here. It was only a week before he left that I found out how much money Heskey is supposedly on. That coupled with the fact that I was blinded by some sort of mis-guided loyalty. I've now changed my mind, I suppose I could have just entrenched myself like some do on here.
Are you amazed that we haven't hired Mourinho yet? Considering how easy you thought it would be to get a very good replacement in?
I'm surprised it's taking so long, accepting that the timing has made it more difficult. I'm also surprised by some of the names we're being linked with. I think we can do better than the likes of MacDonald, Bradley and Koeman, and even Eriksson, Hughes and Moyes. Mind you, in saying that I thought we should have been looking to replace O'Neill a year or so ago when the club was a more attractive proposition.
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It's not as bad as it at first sounds when you realise that those kids to bump it up from the 22 include Albrighton, Clark and the Fonz.
But then the 22 includes Salifou and Osbournes, so it's back to being shit again.
Fuck me there's more than one ;)
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I thought we should have been looking to replace O'Neill a year or so ago when the club was a more attractive proposition.
How were we a more attractive proposition a year ago?
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I thought we should have been looking to replace O'Neill a year or so ago when the club was a more attractive proposition.
How were we a more attractive proposition a year ago?
The finances didn't appear to be such an issue then. We still had the air of a club that was serious about challenging for fourth. Rightly or wrongly, I think the perception now is that we've either slipped back a bit or been overtaken by other clubs.
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It's not as bad as it at first sounds when you realise that those kids to bump it up from the 22 include Albrighton, Clark and the Fonz.
But then the 22 includes Salifou and Osbournes, so it's back to being shit again.
Fuck me there's more than one ;)
Even worse, they have apparently made a reality TV show.
Yikes!
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I thought we should have been looking to replace O'Neill a year or so ago when the club was a more attractive proposition.
How were we a more attractive proposition a year ago?
The finances didn't appear to be such an issue then. We still had the air of a club that was serious about challenging for fourth. Rightly or wrongly, I think the perception now is that we've either slipped back a bit or been overtaken by other clubs.
Maybe. But we maintained our league position of 6th and had more points than previously and closed the gap to 4th. On paper 09/10 was at least as good as 08/09. The only thing is the money for further building, which reamins to be seen.....
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We'll be ok with a decent manager and coach. The squad are not half as bad as they pretend to be. The one thing we're missing from the team more than anything is a leader.
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Bollox,
Downing made it in
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That's because I never made that criticism whilst he was here. It was only a week before he left that I found out how much money Heskey is supposedly on. That coupled with the fact that I was blinded by some sort of mis-guided loyalty. I've now changed my mind, I suppose I could have just entrenched myself like some do on here.
Are you amazed that we haven't hired Mourinho yet? Considering how easy you thought it would be to get a very good replacement in?
I'm surprised it's taking so long, accepting that the timing has made it more difficult. I'm also surprised by some of the names we're being linked with. I think we can do better than the likes of MacDonald, Bradley and Koeman, and even Eriksson, Hughes and Moyes. Mind you, in saying that I thought we should have been looking to replace O'Neill a year or so ago when the club was a more attractive proposition.
We can do better than all those in the list? Who?
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We can do better than all those in the list? Who?
Pellegrini, Hitzfeld, Hiddink, maybe even Magath. I would put them above any of the names I mentioned. I don't see that there is any fundamental reason why we should assume they wouldn't be interested under any circumstances, so I would hope they have at least been considered. Pellegrini's unemployed currently.
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In our squad of 22 players we have in Guzan, Lichaj, Hogg and Salifou 4 players who are yet to make there Premier League debut. These are reserve team players, as is Osbourne. The 5 under 21s considered our best prospects have started 10 PL games between them. We have a paltry 17 experienced players to see us through.
Having made great strides in the last four seasons and reached a level where we are genuine competitors for a CL league spot, it's galling that the board has decided that the important thing right now is to focus on is getting to grips with wages and selling players.
17 senior players? We only used about 13 last season even closely to regularly!
We're up on last season.
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I'm surprised at that. I think with Warnock and Luke we're really strong at left back.
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What baffles me, is how can our wage bill be so high, when our squad is so small??
WTF our wage bill is less than spurs(well it was) and just look at their squad.
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Only one of whom is a left back.
And the other of whom iplays pretty damn well at left-back. Sorted.
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Only one of whom is a left back.
And the other of whom iplays pretty damn well at left-back. Sorted.
He can do a job, but why should we have to move him from his best position to shoehorn him in to another, and then probably shoehorn a centre back in to the position he's vacated. If both senior full backs were injured at the same time, we'd be right up slack alley.
Yup.
As opposed to the teams around us who wouldn't have a problem with their two first choice full-backs being injured? Left-back we're understaffed and I'd rather we'd kept Bouma on the books. But the fact that we don't have dozens of international full-backs to fill doesn't make us unique.
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delete please
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Arsenal have named a squad of 25 that does not contain one British person. As mentioned in the fanzine last year when this rule was announced. If it does not affect them then what good is it?
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Only one of whom is a left back.
And the other of whom iplays pretty damn well at left-back. Sorted.
He can do a job, but why should we have to move him from his best position to shoehorn him in to another, and then probably shoehorn a centre back in to the position he's vacated. If both senior full backs were injured at the same time, we'd be right up slack alley.
We're talking about professional footballers....they should be well able to play in different positions.
Besides it's not as if we're converting a full back into a playmaker-in-the-hole-behind-the-strikers. We're just getting to play on the other side if we need to.
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Arsenal have named a squad of 25 that does not contain one British person. As mentioned in the fanzine last year when this rule was announced. If it does not affect them then what good is it?
Theo Walcott?
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In fairness the only area we're really week number wise is central midfield. Up to Xmas we'll be picking from NRC, Ireland and Petrov for two spots or even three if we continue with 4-2-3-1 so an injury or two and we're in Sidwell and Osbourne terrority which dosen't bare thinkng about.
Most areas we have some decent depth and quality reserves.
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In our squad of 22 players we have in Guzan, Lichaj, Hogg and Salifou 4 players who are yet to make there Premier League debut. These are reserve team players, as is Osbourne. The 5 under 21s considered our best prospects have started 10 PL games between them. We have a paltry 17 experienced players to see us through.
Having made great strides in the last four seasons and reached a level where we are genuine competitors for a CL league spot, it's galling that the board has decided that the important thing right now is to focus on is getting to grips with wages and selling players.
Ditto this - in addition our 17 experienced players include Daives, Baye, Sidwell and Heskey (and Cuellar who i don't rate though i'm in the minority i guess). So it's another season of beasting the first 11 with no plan b (unless Ireland can make something happen) praying for no injuries / suspensions
Depressing as it is - we have a weaker squad (though not starting 11) than the blue shit down the road.
Think we need to have a really good start to the season as confidence will be critical with a squad this thin. Our early season fixtures look to be, by and large, kind to us so we need to make the most in every sense.
Everton was a confidence builder for us as we prevailed while being tore a new ring in footballing terms - but if we have any more barcode type performances / results we could be in the shit.
Much will depend on the new manager holding the team together and getting the best out of them - but when you hear we're interviewing Curbishley - my Spidey sense is tingling, and not in a good way
Hope we can make it to Jan without going into meltdown - and then hope the board will release some funds.
No doubt standing still makes you weaker in this league, irrespective of the largely uninteresting window we decided to not take part in
Hate posting seemingly negative stuff
UTV
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Arsenal have named a squad of 25 that does not contain one British person. As mentioned in the fanzine last year when this rule was announced. If it does not affect them then what good is it?
Theo Walcott?
He, and Jack Wilshere, are included by virtue of being English and U21, and a club can include as many of these as they like. They don't need to be part of the 25.
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We are not desperate need of left back.
Luke young / lichaj can do left back, cuellar/beye/lichaj can certainly be adequate replacement.
In fact, cuellar played right back the whole season last year !
We're also need a left back. If Warnock is injured, we're in trouble in that position, as we'd have to play Luke Young there (we've seen Beye isn't up to it); and then have to play Cuellar, Beye or Lichaj at right back.