Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on August 27, 2010, 10:11:02 AM
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I do not care who the manager is or the players
You simply cannot play 4 games with 4 almost completely different set ups
I am sick and tired of this bullshit about resting players - all it does is give the players and coaches an excuse for thier ineptitude
Tweak midfield and attack to suit the game and the opposition - the last 3 games have looked like our back 5 were complete strangers and it resulted in them playing like it
Stop fucking about and play the first team in every game including cups unless we play significantly weaker opposition
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Four centre backs in one defence says it all.
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All there goals came from our left side.
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Lots of trouble last night was everytime they attacked a wing they had two players on one and they looked like scoring, if they were better they coulda put a few more past us easily. Really should have gone for this game from the start, Alrbrighton should have started and fonz should have come on for Gabby. People saying it was Heskeys best game, really nothing to brag about there, ball hit him once and he flung himself on the floor. Oh and he missed an open goal. Not convinced with petrov coker and ireland in the midfield. Anyone know the formation we took up front when Gabby went off?
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Lots of trouble last night was everytime they attacked a wing they had two players on one and they looked like scoring, if they were better they coulda put a few more past us easily. Really should have gone for this game from the start, Alrbrighton should have started and fonz should have come on for Gabby. People saying it was Heskeys best game, really nothing to brag about there, ball hit him once and he flung himself on the floor. Oh and he missed an open goal. Not convinced with petrov coker and ireland in the midfield. Anyone know the formation we took up front when Gabby went off?
There was no cover for the full backs because he played three narrow midfielders who kept falling over each other they were so close. Young was playing in front of them and two narrow forwards.
We could all see the dangers coming from wide and that Beye in particular was struggling in an unfamiliar position and he did nothing about it.
It was an appalling formation and inept management.
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Four centre backs in one defence says it all.
And still giving away free headers.
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Our defence has looked beyond lightweight so far this season - even moments against a shite West Ham team lay the seeds of concern. I was always pro Davies previously and I'm not sure whether it is just lack of games, but he has looked absolutely tripe. Beye too has looked abysmal. If the geordies can stick 6 up us, Rapid another 3, what the hell are a team like Chelsea or United going to do to us?! We need some direction. A leader. And a settled bloody defence. I'm sick of centre backs playing at right back. Centre backs playing at left back. It's a joke. A very bad joke.
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I reckon if you'd asked every single Villa fan in the world to pick a team not one of them would have come up with selection we ended up with last night. If we had played Young, Cuellar, Collins and Warnock across the back we would have won the game.
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I cannot help but note the irony of people crying out for a settled defence (which I 100% agree with) when last season there was a clamour for MON to be resting players.
In fairness to K-Mac, there hve been injuries to key defenders so he has been forced to chop and change it.
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I cannot help but note the irony of people crying out for a settled defence (which I 100% agree with) when last season there was a clamour for MON to be resting players.
In fairness to K-Mac, there hve been injuries to key defenders so he has been forced to chop and change it.
There's a bit of a difference between resting players in March and in August.
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I mentioned id the West Ham post match thread that we did have a few shakey defensive moments, which seems to have been an early sign of what we've seen in the last two games. It seems that K-Mac can't organise a defence, even if he can get us playing decent attacking football.
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Least we know Beye shouldnt be anywhere near the first team. I always thought Davies would come good,but i'm not sure if he ever will now.
After Gab went off it seemed obvious to put Ash and Albrighton on wings as the fullbacks were exposed,and have Ireland behind Heskey with the other two holding behind.
When the final whistle went,my first thought was,we won't be seeing European football at VP for a while.
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The defence were a shambles last night everytime the ball came near beye i had my heart in my mouth.
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Every time the narrow midfielders went to help to full back they switched and we were in serious trouble again! Need to re think the whole strategy, Kev Mac had a bit of a MON night only worse, diddnt think you'd ever hear that!
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After Gab went off it seemed obvious to put Ash and Albrighton on wings as the fullbacks were exposed,and have Ireland behind Heskey with the other two holding behind.
I said exactly that at the time of the substitution, having seen Cuellar facing two players every time they attacked down our right. Seemed obvious to me that the danger would come via the wings. However I am not a football manager, so the formatiom remained as it was. A back 4 and then some others further up the pitch.
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I cannot help but note the irony of people crying out for a settled defence (which I 100% agree with) when last season there was a clamour for MON to be resting players.
In fairness to K-Mac, there hve been injuries to key defenders so he has been forced to chop and change it.
Rest one player! Not bloody three quarters of back four. I like a settled defence too. I thought most of our rotation should have been done in midfield last season as Stan often looked clapped out.
For me we have to play with wide players in front of our full backs which is absolutely basic. There was no one in front of Beye, not even the fairy tackle-dodger, no one in front of Cuellar. MoN made the same mistake against Chelsea in the 7-1 which saw Luke Young have to deal with both Zhirkov and Malouda alone. That is the main cost of playing too narrow.
The main change needed is to not have Davies, in the team or even in the Birmingham area at the time. I'd go for Young two from Collins, Cuellar and Dunne and then Warnock if he has realised you need to be in the left back area and close to the winger to effectively defend against him. In front two midfielders in Reo and Petrov (neither are perfect but we'll have to make do). Two wide players and Ireland between them and in front of Ireland Gabby.
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I cannot help but note the irony of people crying out for a settled defence (which I 100% agree with) when last season there was a clamour for MON to be resting players.
In fairness to K-Mac, there hve been injuries to key defenders so he has been forced to chop and change it.
Rest one player! Not bloody three quarters of back four. I like a settled defence too. I thought most of our rotation should have been done in midfield last season as Stan often looked clapped out.
For me we have to play with wide players in front of our full backs which is absolutely basic. There was no one in front of Beye, not even the fairy tackle-dodger, no one in front of Cuellar. MoN made the same mistake against Chelsea in the 7-1 which saw Luke Young have to deal with both Zhirkov and Malouda alone. That is the main cost of playing too narrow.
The main change needed is to not have Davies, in the team or even in the Birmingham area at the time. I'd go for Young two from Collins, Cuellar and Dunne and then Warnock if he has realised you need to be in the left back area and close to the winger to effectively defend against him. In front two midfielders in Reo and Petrov (neither are perfect but we'll have to make do). Two wide players and Ireland between them and in front of Ireland Gabby.
Thats exactly the team and formation I'd want to see. Not Ireland semmingly playing behind NRC and Petrov. I think that team would scare the shit out of defenders with the pace and options it would create.
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The fairy tackle-dodger? I wonder who that can be. I don't mind him dodging tackles so much if he makes progress going forwards but he doesn't do much of that either.
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What we have at the moment are 4 similar wingers in Young, Downing, Albrighton and Bannon. I was pleased when we signed Milner cos he reminded me of Des Bremner. Hard working, tracks back, reasonably skilful. He complemented our midfield by giving it something different and made it balanced. We lost that when he moved inside and Downing was not the wide man we needed, unless Ashley was going. Now we have wide players who are very similar, better going forward than tracking back. When we play 3 of them, plus Ireland, its no wonder we get overrun by ex championship sides. We need to restore the balance as a starting point. A wide midfielder should be bought rather than a winger. One who is more of a worker rather than a dribbler. That would allow Ireland to bomb forward, knowing somene will tuck in behind.
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the thing is, its so bloody easy to pick our starting lineup
Fridel
young ---------------dunne-----------------collins-----------------------warnock
NRC--------------------------Petrov
Young ----------------------------------ireland----------------------------------downing
gabby
Why is so hard to pick that lineup and play it correctly and not play ireland in a deep midfield role like last night, he is wasted there
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Least we know Beye shouldnt be anywhere near the first team. I always thought Davies would come good,but i'm not sure if he ever will now.
After Gab went off it seemed obvious to put Ash and Albrighton on wings as the fullbacks were exposed,and have Ireland behind Heskey with the other two holding behind.
When the final whistle went,my first thought was,we won't be seeing European football at VP for a while.
I didn't think that Beye was too bad at the beginning. Cuellar and most certainly Davies looked far worse in the first half.
Davies is nowhere near as good as Clark anymore
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Four centre backs in one defence says it all.
And the best defender of the lot of them playing out of position at right back. When MON left I thought that we'd seen the end of players out of position, but last night was almost like an homage to his worst tactical attributes.
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Four centre backs in one defence says it all.
And the best defender of the lot of them playing out of position at right back. When MON left I thought that we'd seen the end of players out of position, but last night was almost like an homage to his worst tactical attributes.
to be fair to the bloke, luke young, dunne and warnock were all injured !!
he had no choice because there is no one else and out backup left back was sold to wba and our best left back was released
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The awkwardness of the square pegs in round holes strategy has been evident for ages as we all know. Carlos Cuellar is self-evidently awkward at right back, he doesn't overlap and makes it very easy for the opposing left back to know what he will do. However as I understand it he made it known to O'Neill that he didn't like playing there as Luke Young has done playing left-back in the past. So the question is why have the powers that be (MON and now Kevin MacDonald) continued to play players out of position against all the visual evidence that you could possibly want?
I mean I don't think that I ever heard MON explain his rationale for these kinds of decisions and last night Kevin MacDonald referred to Habib Beye as an 'experienced international' as if that alone can justify being played out of position.
I'm sure many of us have played at our own levels on the left side when you are right footed and vice versa and it isn't easy. You have to play against all your instincts and you are definitely less effective as a consequence.
So, going back to what I think I was trying to say, is why have we repeatedly weakened our side by playing players out of position? What's the thinking? I just don't get it
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The awkwardness of the square pegs in round holes strategy has been evident for ages as we all know. Carlos Cuellar is self-evidently awkward at right back, he doesn't overlap and makes it very easy for the opposing left back to know what he will do. However as I understand it he made it known to O'Neill that he didn't like playing there as Luke Young has done playing left-back in the past. So the question is why have the powers that be (MON and now Kevin MacDonald) continued to play players out of position against all the visual evidence that you could possibly want?
I mean I don't think that I ever heard MON explain his rationale for these kinds of decisions and last night Kevin MacDonald referred to Habib Beye as an 'experienced international' as if that alone can justify being played out of position.
I'm sure many of us have played at our own levels on the left side when you are right footed and vice versa and it isn't easy. You have to play against all your instincts and you are definitely less effective as a consequence.
So, going back to what I think I was trying to say, is why have we repeatedly weakened our side by playing players out of position? What's the thinking? I just don't get it
luke young, dunne and warnock were all injured !!
he had no choice because there is no one else and out backup left back was sold to wba and our best left back was released
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AVFCRob. Take a look at JohnRobsonsSideburns classic rant on the 'The Mind of a Manager' thread. You are not alone.
This final paragraph has had me laughing all day:
Is it just me, or are the things above not clearly apparent to anyone who has watch even 20-minutes of Villa playing over the past year. So why, oh why, oh why, oh why, can the men who have been in charge of Aston Villa during this period not see this. How can 50,000 fans see this, and the man that matters not.? I mean how can it happen? What do they know, what have they seen that gives them such a contrasting opinion? Are they so professionally trained that they know something that we don't? What the fuck is it, because I wish they'd fucking tell us. TELL US KEV MAC, TELL US MON, because it's doing my bloody head in
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No one was bloody injured, he was trying to rest players! They will all be fit again for Sunday!
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No one was bloody injured, he was trying to rest players! They will all be fit again for Sunday!
yes they bloody were !! it was on the bbc site for team news !!!
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Young and Dunne were injured, Downing and Warnock were rested accordin to the pre-match team news.
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The truth is probably somewhere in the middle - Young, Dunne and Warnock probably have knocks and could have played if necessary but we could have been risking exacerbating their injuries and not having them for Sunday or longer.
However, how we're supposed to have kept a settled defence for these games when Collins and Cuellar have both only just come back from injury and Dunne was suspended for the first leg, I don't know.
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the thing is, its so bloody easy to pick our starting lineup
Fridel
young ---------------dunne-----------------collins-----------------------warnock
NRC--------------------------Petrov
Young ----------------------------------ireland----------------------------------downing
gabby
Why is so hard to pick that lineup and play it correctly and not play ireland in a deep midfield role like last night, he is wasted there
Because you have missed out both our best defender and our stand-out attacking of the season so far.
And it's been very hard to play Gabby so far this season.
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Says in mirror that Dunne has given Houllier an headache by pulling out of tomorrows game, Anyone know why?
He injured or somethin?
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He took a knock to the knee in the first half v Bolton.
Downing also had a gashed shin. Usually he has a gash game.
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Says in mirror that Dunne has given Houllier an headache by pulling out of tomorrows game, Anyone know why?
orange wednesdays.
he can have a seat for each chin and pay for one.
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Cheers boys
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Dunney out of the firing line for a while will be a good thing I think, hopefully he can get himself sorted ouyt.
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Yep Dunne's a very good player, we need him, but we need him fit and focused. Hopefully GH will see this and sort him out.
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Hope Dunny is working hard with the new fitness coach and comes back in peak shape ......