Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: TimTheVillain on August 24, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
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Goes without saying really, but with no Manager, I am VERY concerned that we go into the season with the squad weaker than last season.
I see Small Heath bidding for N'Zogbia who I've always rated and Everton in for Crouchie........
IF we and the window with this squad, I'm preparing myself for mid table at very best.
We are in a flamin mess, and I'm not sure we'll come out of this one well myself.
I hope I'm proved wrong.
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I'm concerned about our lack of signings aswell just hope they hurry up and appoint a manager asap.
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We still haven't spent the £3 million we received from Gardner's sale to the sty dwellers yet ffs.
Concerned B13.
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If we buy no one, will that be such a disaster? Cuellar, Fonz, Agbonlahor, Collins and Delph to come into the squad. ReoCoker given another chance (for those out there that like him, dont get it myself). Albrighton like a new signing....
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
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A flamin mess? So for a couple of vowels we can get Mathieu and Leo, job's a good'un.
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
Aha, so Randy did a deal with MON to walk when he did to save money.
It's all coming together now in a kind of Shutter Island way.
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
Jesus Chris. I didn't think you'd head to the dark sde so quickly. It's all been conspiracy theory with lately.
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I don't want any new signings until a manager is in place. We can wait till Jan if any new signings are required by the new manager.
I'm looking forward to Delph getting fit, he's exactly what we need now along with Ireland in Midfield.
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What kind of player could we recruit now if KM was given money to spend, English based mediocre types I reckon. That's why I think we need a manager to come in with their own network of contacts and scouts. Even if that means waiting till next summer to recruit players. What ever happens this season it will be a step backwards, Thanks to MON's timing.
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I don't want any new signings until a manager is in place. We can wait till Jan if any new signings are required by the new manager.
I'm looking forward to Delph getting fit, he's exactly what we need now along with Ireland in Midfield.
Who would have Delph Replaced last sunday then out of interest?
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I don't want any new signings until a manager is in place. We can wait till Jan if any new signings are required by the new manager.
I'm looking forward to Delph getting fit, he's exactly what we need now along with Ireland in Midfield.
Who would have Delph Replaced last sunday then out of interest?
I would have rested Albrighton, put Ashley back on the wing and pushed Ireland up to support Carew
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I think we're two players shy, but that said, a competent organiser with a modicum of an idea about tactics should be able to get this squad to challenge for the top 6.
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Keep in mind how awful the Jan window can be with prices rising and a mass scramble for any players on the market anywhere decent.
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I suppose its worth noting that a new manager will have his eyes open to the wider market, which may ease a new player or two coming in. But I agree that January is a poor time for signings.
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
Spot on, Greg.
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I don't want any new signings until a manager is in place. We can wait till Jan if any new signings are required by the new manager.
I'm looking forward to Delph getting fit, he's exactly what we need now along with Ireland in Midfield.
Who would have Delph Replaced last sunday then out of interest?
I would have rested Albrighton, put Ashley back on the wing and pushed Ireland up to support Carew
I would of done similar but replaced Downing instead(Albrighton was the man in form) and told petrov that if he went more than 20 yards from his back line I'd rip him a new arse!
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I haven't slept since I found out we weren't signing Aiden McGready.
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
Spot on, Greg.
BING BONG
Chris's GP to the 'no new signings thread' please, his repeat prescription of Prozac is overdue.
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i do not see the point of buying a player, if and when the new manager comes in does not rate/ like him.
if kmac is the new manager he will only get players in who were being followed by oneil
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
Spot on, Greg.
How many times do you usually make the same joke before you get bored?
Fact is we're about £20m up on this transfer window and we were outplayed by a championship side on Sunday.
Until I get some indication that the board have it in them to pick a decent manager and support him financially then any optimism is just wishful thinking with nothing of substance to back it up.
Every summer we hear that if you don't make signings you go backwards yet this year it doesn't seem to apply even though we've lost our player of the season.
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Fair point Chris except this season we'll at least have the whole squad to choose from rather than the whole squad minus those MON fell out with, decided he didn't rate anymore after spending umpteen million on them, or had committed the crime of being a proper right back.
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Delph won't be back for ages, certainly not in 2010.
I would save save for maybe being a cental midfielder light, there is enough in the squad for a new manager to be working with until January.
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
Spot on, Greg.
How many times do you usually make the same joke before you get bored?
Fact is we're about £20m up on this transfer window and we were outplayed by a championship side on Sunday.
Until I get some indication that the board have it in them to pick a decent manager and support him financially then any optimism is just wishful thinking with nothing of substance to back it up.
Every summer we hear that if you don't make signings you go backwards yet this year it doesn't seem to apply even though we've lost our player of the season.
Of course it still applies this season.
However, you can't pretend the manager fucking off just before the start of the season hasn't had a bit of an effect. Usually he waits till the last minute before doing the business. This year he fucked off just about the time wed expected him to lumber into action.
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
Spot on, Greg.
How many times do you usually make the same joke before you get bored?
Fact is we're about £20m up on this transfer window and we were outplayed by a championship side on Sunday.
Until I get some indication that the board have it in them to pick a decent manager and support him financially then any optimism is just wishful thinking with nothing of substance to back it up.
Every summer we hear that if you don't make signings you go backwards yet this year it doesn't seem to apply even though we've lost our player of the season.
Your world may have stopped the day Martin left but in the real world life goes on, Chris. Get over it, he's gone and he ain't coming back. Let's wait and see what happens, it's a big mess but I'm sure the board are trying to find the right man for the job and funds will be available for him. To think the board is delaying the appointment of a manager to save spending money in the transfer market is pure lunacy. I'll carry on laughing at you whilst you continue to make such ridiculous statements or gregnash sues me for defamation of character.
What ever happened to Chris Smith - the Voice of Reason? I know it was a long time ago but come on Chris, take a deep breath and judge the board on their actions, not some trumped up, half baked idea.
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Deeply depressing stuff. No point in signing anyone till a new manager goes, equally the likes of NRC/Young may want to hang around to see who the new boss is.
Whichever way you cut it we have "lost" a seasons worth of activity as the winter window is really for panic buying/selling only.
Grim indeed.
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Until I get some indication that the board have it in them to pick a decent manager and support him financially then any optimism is just wishful thinking with nothing of substance to back it up.
Because they've got no track record of that at all, have they?
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It doesn't make much sense to buy anyone until a new manager is appointed.
If you wanted to avoid spending any momey what better way to do it.
Spot on, Greg.
How many times do you usually make the same joke before you get bored?
Fact is we're about £20m up on this transfer window and we were outplayed by a championship side on Sunday.
Until I get some indication that the board have it in them to pick a decent manager and support him financially then any optimism is just wishful thinking with nothing of substance to back it up.
Every summer we hear that if you don't make signings you go backwards yet this year it doesn't seem to apply even though we've lost our player of the season.
Your world may have stopped the day Martin left but in the real world life goes on, Chris. Get over it, he's gone and he ain't coming back. Let's wait and see what happens, it's a big mess but I'm sure the board are trying to find the right man for the job and funds will be available for him. To think the board is delaying the appointment of a manager to save spending money in the transfer market is pure lunacy. I'll carry on laughing at you whilst you continue to make such ridiculous statements or gregnash sues me for defamation of character.
What ever happened to Chris Smith - the Voice of Reason? I know it was a long time ago but come on Chris, take a deep breath and judge the board on their actions, not some trumped up, half baked idea.
The problem is so many of you have got so giddy with excitement because MON has left, you lost your critical faculties. We were shit on Sunday, we have a board committed to reducing the wage bill, a chairman talking about living within our means, his spokesman one week extolling our youth players and the next decrying the 'poor' attendances. We've lost our player of the season and not replaced him, we've had a problem with goal scoring for 2 years and not addressed it and we're unlikely to buy anyone this year.
The board have a patchy record with appointments (how many Chief Execs have we got through?) so I'm uneasy about their ability to pick the right man and worry that they're looking for the cheap option who will be more concerned with the wage bill than trying to win things. Of course I might be worrying unduly (I hope I am) but there are very real grounds for concern.
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It seems unlikely to me that anyone who has been or will be sounded out about the job will have been done so without the question of an transfer budget and potential targets being identified and when the appointment is made, I would expect (hope..?) that some new signings will be made shortly thereafter.
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It seems unlikely to me that anyone who has been or will be sounded out about the job will have been done so without the question of an transfer budget and potential targets being identified and when the appointment is made, I would expect (hope..?) that some new signings will be made shortly thereafter.
Hope so, but that in essence means that they'll have to appoint somebody in the next day or two whereas the General has been talking about taking our time.
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The problem is so many of you have got so giddy with excitement because MON has left, you lost your critical faculties. We were shit on Sunday, we have a board committed to reducing the wage bill, a chairman talking about living within our means, his spokesman one week extolling our youth players and the next decrying the 'poor' attendances. We've lost our player of the season and not replaced him, we've had a problem with goal scoring for 2 years and not addressed it and we're unlikely to buy anyone this year.
The board have a patchy record with appointments (how many Chief Execs have we got through?) so I'm uneasy about their ability to pick the right man and worry that they're looking for the cheap option who will be more concerned with the wage bill than trying to win things. Of course I might be worrying unduly (I hope I am) but there are very real grounds for concern.
How many times do we have to suffer a variation on this "I'm really clever and you're all stupid" theme? It really is getting very tedious to read through yet another Chris Smith diatribe about how we're doomed but he's the only one who can see it. The board you are castigating now is the same board who you have spent four years praising for just about everything they've done. They have made mistakes - not least letting the previous manager have too much power (including the power of hire and fire over off-field personnel) and too much money to spend (which is why economies now have to be made) - but I'm at a loss to see how they are suddenly taking us backward at a rate of knots.
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The problem is so many of you have got so giddy with excitement because MON has left, you lost your critical faculties. We were shit on Sunday, we have a board committed to reducing the wage bill, a chairman talking about living within our means, his spokesman one week extolling our youth players and the next decrying the 'poor' attendances. We've lost our player of the season and not replaced him, we've had a problem with goal scoring for 2 years and not addressed it and we're unlikely to buy anyone this year.
The board have a patchy record with appointments (how many Chief Execs have we got through?) so I'm uneasy about their ability to pick the right man and worry that they're looking for the cheap option who will be more concerned with the wage bill than trying to win things. Of course I might be worrying unduly (I hope I am) but there are very real grounds for concern.
How many times do we have to suffer a variation on this "I'm really clever and you're all stupid" theme? It really is getting very tedious to read through yet another Chris Smith diatribe about how we're doomed but he's the only one who can see it. The board you are castigating now is the same board who you have spent four years praising for just about everything they've done. They have made mistakes - not least letting the previous manager have too much power (including the power of hire and fire over off-field personnel) and too much money to spend (which is why economies now have to be made) - but I'm at a loss to see how they are suddenly taking us backward at a rate of knots.
Why is it wrong to have doubts given the situation I outlined above? I don't think I've posted anything factually incorrect. As I've said I'm hoping to be proved wrong but as it stands I'm worried about the current direction of the club. The talk all summer has been about cutting the wage bill and Randy reiterated in his statement after MON walked that we'd be working within our means. If that's the way it has to be then it's fair enough, he's the boss, but under those circumstances it is difficult to be optimistic about on field matters. You yourself suggested that we might be looking at a mid table finish but to me that just means losing more of our best players next summer.
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Why is it wrong to have doubts given the situation I outlined above? I don't think I've posted anything factually incorrect. As I've said I'm hoping to be proved wrong but as it stands I'm worried about the current direction of the club. The talk all summer has been about cutting the wage bill and Randy reiterated in his statement after MON walked that we'd be working within our means. If that's the way it has to be then it's fair enough, he's the boss, but under those circumstances it is difficult to be optimistic about on field matters. You yourself suggested that we might be looking at a mid table finish but to me that just means losing more of our best players next summer.
It's one thing to have doubts but quite another to have a sideswipe at everyone who disagrees with you every time you say anything. You're wrong in many of your opinion is fact statements and I would like to know how it is that living within our means (or as it was called back then 'sustainable growth') was such a good thing until two weeks ago and now it's a surefire recipe for disaster.
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Why is it wrong to have doubts given the situation I outlined above? I don't think I've posted anything factually incorrect. As I've said I'm hoping to be proved wrong but as it stands I'm worried about the current direction of the club. The talk all summer has been about cutting the wage bill and Randy reiterated in his statement after MON walked that we'd be working within our means. If that's the way it has to be then it's fair enough, he's the boss, but under those circumstances it is difficult to be optimistic about on field matters. You yourself suggested that we might be looking at a mid table finish but to me that just means losing more of our best players next summer.
It's one thing to have doubts but quite another to have a sideswipe at everyone who disagrees with you every time you say anything. You're wrong in many of your opinion is fact statements and I would like to know how it is that living within our means (or as it was called back then 'sustainable growth') was such a good thing until two weeks ago and now it's a surefire recipe for disaster.
Come on Dave, Mark took the piss out of me and I took the piss out of him. There really is no need for it to be taken as anything more than that.
I haven't said it was recipe for disaster, that's your interpretation, I said that I have worries because the team had issues at the end of the season that still haven't been addressed and it seems unlikely to me that they will be this summer. I want to be optimistic but I struggle to find anything to give me grounds, particularly after the dismal affort at Newcastle and seeing Milner set up Barry last night.
Quite possibly I am being unduly harsh on Randy and co but my gut feeling isn't good about it and I can't pretend that it is.
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The board have a patchy record with appointments (how many Chief Execs have we got through?)
Yes, that's a good point.
I wonder if the same person who had the press officer removed and his mate installed was perhaps involved in the departure of the Chief Executives? Conjecture, maybe, but the disappearances of FitzGerald and Cunnah hardly strike me as sound pieces of evidence for the board making shit appointments.
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Come on Dave, Mark took the piss out of me and I took the piss out of him. There really is no need for it to be taken as anything more than that.
Agreed.
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I haven't said it was recipe for disaster, that's your interpretation, I said that I have worries because the team had issues at the end of the season that still haven't been addressed and it seems unlikely to me that they will be this summer.
You're absolutely right. And I wonder who's fault that is?
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I said that I have worries because the team had issues at the end of the season that still haven't been addressed
Some of us have been saying very similar things for the past three seasons and have been shot down by the Smudge gun on every occasion.
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I said that I have worries because the team had issues at the end of the season that still haven't been addressed
Some of us have been saying very similar things for the past three seasons and have been shot down by the Smudge gun on every occasion.
Shot down by the the Smudge gun?
Have you been on those purple pills again, ya daft poet?
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Delph won't be back for ages, certainly not in 2010.
I would save save for maybe being a cental midfielder light, there is enough in the squad for a new manager to be working with until January.
I have said for the last two seasons, that with a different slant on the coaching side the squad at VP could achieve more than they were doing - and that is taking into account the Wembley appearances etc.
I genuinely believe that there was a possibility that all could have achieved a bit more than they were showing - put that collectively together as a team and there would have been better results obtained. I hope that the new managerial team, whoever they may be, achieve this potential that is in the squad.
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The moment MON walked out it was clear that this was going to be a season of transition with up and down results. Even before that I believed we were headed for 8-9th in the table.
To suggest Villa is currently on collision course for a massive iceberg is ridiculous - we have a decent squad and a very good first team after all, who are capable players - and some of the comments being made about the board and their nefarious and cunning plans to avoid spending money are frankly laughable.
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The problem is so many of you have got so giddy with excitement because MON has left, you lost your critical faculties. We were shit on Sunday, we have a board committed to reducing the wage bill, a chairman talking about living within our means, his spokesman one week extolling our youth players and the next decrying the 'poor' attendances. We've lost our player of the season and not replaced him, we've had a problem with goal scoring for 2 years and not addressed it and we're unlikely to buy anyone this year.
I don't know about the mythical beast Chris Smith - the voice of reason but I do recall Chris Smith the patient positivist / optimist. He seems to have transmogrified into the most negative person on the site. Really Chris, criticising the club for wanting to reduce a wage bill that is 85% of turnover and living within our means ? What would you prefer they do? Especially when a signifcant chunk of that is spent on players who haven't been playing? And living witthin our means will be a requirement soon anyway. Ironically many of the problems you outline above - not addressing the goalscoring problem, not buying anyone this close season, excessive wages - are down to O'Neill, the man you wouldn't hear a bad word against. Even the poor attendances (which don't exactly help the turnover to wages ratio) might have something to do with O'Neill's uninspiring signings and turgid football.
The board have a patchy record with appointments (how many Chief Execs have we got through?) so I'm uneasy about their ability to pick the right man and worry that they're looking for the cheap option who will be more concerned with the wage bill than trying to win things. Of course I might be worrying unduly (I hope I am) but there are very real grounds for concern.
Here you may have a point - their track record with the Brown's is far from good, and it's possible the selection of O'Neill had more to do with Ellis than Randy and Co.
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I don't know about the mythical beast Chris Smith - the voice of reason
It's true, he hasn't always been like this. Long before his pill addiction, Chris used to post some really well balanced stuff, it was around the time when Jimmy Hogan was manager.
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I must say I do share Chris Smith's outlook here. It feels as though a certain cycle of progress has come to an end within the club. It has been said many times before that the next manager appointed will be very telling and I think that holds true.
I don't know why, but I feel as though we are reliving the early mid-eighties here. Tony Barton has just left and we need an appointment that will remodel and take Villa into a new era. Just as back then, there are financial issues that need to be addressed, there are squad members to be moved on and youngsters to blood. We clearly need an experienced, winning manager to steady the ship and move it forward. Just as with the appointment of O'Neill, we need to re-draw a winning vision of the club's future and appoint a winning manager to realize it.
I desperately hope Randy and his advisors get this appointment spot on and keep things moving forward because if we allow any rot to set in it will be unpleasant. Talk of settling for mid-table will soon turn into talk of relegation scraps and dog-fights. Complacency will set in: "Villa are too good to be relegated" etc. will be the common phrase but before we know it we find ourselves in a Newastle/Leeds/Forest/ Sheffield Wednesday situation. When the rot sets in it sets in quick.
Like Chris I worry. Casting my mind back to '83-'84, I worry that we are going to end up with an inexperienced Graham Turner when we clearly need to pull out all the stops to lure an Alex Ferguson or a promising Howard Kendall. Has Randy the track record and nous to get such a call right? Is it all simply down to pot luck anyway?
On reflection I think I'm worried because I'm simply scarred by memories of those wretched days from back in the eighties. I don't want those days to revist this great club. We must keep the momentum upwards at all costs.
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I see two possibilities here:-
1. Randy invested to get us where he wanted, but we haven't got there. Both in terms of CL qualification and increased revenue to support further spending. So his original goal of the club fudning itself and getting a return on his investment is still there, but if that's as a 6th-8th side and no more then fair enough, because he no longer thinks further investment will get us any higher.
2. He's happy to keep investing, mixed with a bit of restraint. So he wants the wagebill reduced, which he feels can be achieved due to non-playing high earners and the emerging youth, and then keep buying players within the revised framework. Sort of one step back in order to take two forward.
Either is his perogative as he owns the club, but number one does sound awfully close to the way Doug ran the club. I'd be perfectly happy with number 2, as would a good manager who may come in, so I agree the next appointment will say more about the club's ambitions than anything we hear from the General or Randy himself.
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I said that I have worries because the team had issues at the end of the season that still haven't been addressed
Some of us have been saying very similar things for the past three seasons and have been shot down by the Smudge gun on every occasion.
It's not as though anything has happened to cause any of us to reassess is it?
I've been behind the policy of patiently building and expected that this summer we'd do for the striking options what we did for the defence last summer. That seems highly unlikely now.
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This is going to be a long, hard season.
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I said that I have worries because the team had issues at the end of the season that still haven't been addressed
Some of us have been saying very similar things for the past three seasons and have been shot down by the Smudge gun on every occasion.
I don't think anyone was under the illusion that MON or the Villa side he built was perfect. The differences were really in whether you thought the positives outweighed the negatives and your judgement as to whether he could put right the things that were needed.
I'd be much more confident with Martin in charge and the Milner money to spend than I am now with no permanent manager and us unlikely to spend anything. Granted, that could change in the next 6 days, but the club has to move fast!
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I said that I have worries because the team had issues at the end of the season that still haven't been addressed
Some of us have been saying very similar things for the past three seasons and have been shot down by the Smudge gun on every occasion.
I don't think anyone was under the illusion that MON or the Villa side he built was perfect. The differences were really in whether you thought the positives outweighed the negatives and your judgement as to whether he could put right the things that were needed.
i don't remember many of the more pro-MON posters saying "so long as you think the positives outweigh the negatives that's ok" - for starters, I've moaned about the transfer lateness and the shit football for two years plus, but never thought the positives didn't outweigh the negatives.
Didn't stop people from piling into me (and many others) for being a miserablist, though.
It looks now that, with MON gone, there's the opportunity to raise the "no time to fix things which needed to be fixed last season" thing with someone other than MON to point the finger at, so that's "ok" now.
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I see two possibilities here:-
1. Randy invested to get us where he wanted, but we haven't got there. Both in terms of CL qualification and increased revenue to support further spending. So his original goal of the club fudning itself and getting a return on his investment is still there, but if that's as a 6th-8th side and no more then fair enough, because he no longer thinks further investment will get us any higher.
2. He's happy to keep investing, mixed with a bit of restraint. So he wants the wagebill reduced, which he feels can be achieved due to non-playing high earners and the emerging youth, and then keep buying players within the revised framework. Sort of one step back in order to take two forward.
Either is his perogative as he owns the club, but number one does sound awfully close to the way Doug ran the club. I'd be perfectly happy with number 2, as would a good manager who may come in, so I agree the next appointment will say more about the club's ambitions than anything we hear from the General or Randy himself.
I've heard nothing to date that would suggest anything other than Option 2.
The "reducing the wage bill" is more down to financial engineering than cutting costs across the board. By this I mean getting rid of the players we pay very handsome wages to that serve no purpose at the club. Imagine how Randy must feel each month when he sees the list of salaries and the part they're playing in our team; NRC, Sidwell, Davies, Luke Young, Heskey.. that's £200k a week going out the door for next to zero contribution.
The most important issue is getting the right manager. Once we have him, I'm sure he will get the backing he deserves but like all managers, he will be accountable to the players he buys. I really don't see a problem with that.
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A flamin mess? So for a couple of vowels we can get Mathieu and Leo, job's a good'un.
Well done.
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i don't remember many of the more pro-MON posters saying "so long as you think the positives outweigh the negatives that's ok" - for starters, I've moaned about the transfer lateness and the shit football for two years plus, but never thought the positives didn't outweigh the negatives.
Didn't stop people from piling into me (and many others) for being a miserablist, though.
It looks now that, with MON gone, there's the opportunity to raise the "no time to fix things which needed to be fixed last season" thing with someone other than MON to point the finger at, so that's "ok" now.
I guess it's a matter of perspective, but if some of the 'miserablists' on here tought the good outweighed the bad, then why did they never post on it and always have a pop at the manager?
I'm not sure what you mean by the last paragraph, but IMO whatever needs addressing is the same should MON still be manager or not. We need a better striker and more steel in the midefield, plus a greater use of the squad and to evolve our style of play to help break down the bus parkers, an opinion I've been pretty consistent in my opinion on this since the end of last season. If anything I'll give a new manager more leeway in addressing these issues as he'll have a small amount of the window left, if any at all, and will want to assess for himself first.
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i don't remember many of the more pro-MON posters saying "so long as you think the positives outweigh the negatives that's ok" - for starters, I've moaned about the transfer lateness and the shit football for two years plus, but never thought the positives didn't outweigh the negatives.
Didn't stop people from piling into me (and many others) for being a miserablist, though.
It looks now that, with MON gone, there's the opportunity to raise the "no time to fix things which needed to be fixed last season" thing with someone other than MON to point the finger at, so that's "ok" now.
I guess it's a matter of perspective, but if some of the 'miserablists' on here tought the good outweighed the bad, then why did they never post on it and always have a pop at the manager?
A lot of them did say when they thought things were good. They just weren't afraid to mention when things were bad.
How many regular posters on here, for example, were calling for MON to get the bullet?
I can think of about five. You'd think there was a massive knot of "sack the manager" feeling, when it was nothing of the sort.
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How many regular posters on here, for example, were calling for MON to get the bullet?
I can think of about five. You'd think there was a massive knot of "sack the manager" feeling, when it was nothing of the sort.
And I can only think of two posters on here who were jumping on anything negative with the zeal you suggest. OK, three if you include me ;)
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I see two possibilities here:-
1. Randy invested to get us where he wanted, but we haven't got there. Both in terms of CL qualification and increased revenue to support further spending. So his original goal of the club fudning itself and getting a return on his investment is still there, but if that's as a 6th-8th side and no more then fair enough, because he no longer thinks further investment will get us any higher.
2. He's happy to keep investing, mixed with a bit of restraint. So he wants the wagebill reduced, which he feels can be achieved due to non-playing high earners and the emerging youth, and then keep buying players within the revised framework. Sort of one step back in order to take two forward.
Either is his perogative as he owns the club, but number one does sound awfully close to the way Doug ran the club. I'd be perfectly happy with number 2, as would a good manager who may come in, so I agree the next appointment will say more about the club's ambitions than anything we hear from the General or Randy himself.
I've heard nothing to date that would suggest anything other than Option 2.
Neither have I, but then we also have not seen anything to date that confirms either theory, other than Randy's previous record with us, which lends itself towards option 2.
I think the proof is in the tasting, so it's a matter of sit back and see what happens. The new manager will be a significant pointer though, as in modern football the better he is the more money he'll have been promised to work with!
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How many regular posters on here, for example, were calling for MON to get the bullet?
I can think of about five. You'd think there was a massive knot of "sack the manager" feeling, when it was nothing of the sort.
And I can only think of two posters on here who were jumping on anything negative with the zeal you suggest. OK, three if you include me ;)
I can think of plenty of times when poster x posted something in anyway negative about the club and was pounced on by a number of people.
You only have to look at General Krulak's thread to see examples of that - people being told to stop moaning by people with different opinions and priorities.
How many times did we hear "some people never stop moaning, we're sixth blah blah blah" when people suggested - for example - that the football was shit?
Incidentally, since MON went, some of the most zealous critics of the moaners in the past have now become the most zealous critics of the club.
It's ok when they're moaning, and they're expressing their opinions, see.
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The most zealous critics, or moaners, about the x-manager seem to be from the club itself.
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How many regular posters on here, for example, were calling for MON to get the bullet?
I can think of about five. You'd think there was a massive knot of "sack the manager" feeling, when it was nothing of the sort.
And I can only think of two posters on here who were jumping on anything negative with the zeal you suggest. OK, three if you include me ;)
I can think of plenty of times when poster x posted something in anyway negative about the club and was pounced on by a number of people.
You only have to look at General Krulak's thread to see examples of that - people being told to stop moaning by people with different opinions and priorities.
How many times did we hear "some people never stop moaning, we're sixth blah blah blah" when people suggested - for example - that the football was shit?
Incidentally, since MON went, some of the most zealous critics of the moaners in the past have now become the most zealous critics of the club.
It's ok when they're moaning, and they're expressing their opinions, see.
Bingo
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How many regular posters on here, for example, were calling for MON to get the bullet?
I can think of about five. You'd think there was a massive knot of "sack the manager" feeling, when it was nothing of the sort.
And I can only think of two posters on here who were jumping on anything negative with the zeal you suggest. OK, three if you include me ;)
I can think of plenty of times when poster x posted something in anyway negative about the club and was pounced on by a number of people.
You only have to look at General Krulak's thread to see examples of that - people being told to stop moaning by people with different opinions and priorities.
How many times did we hear "some people never stop moaning, we're sixth blah blah blah" when people suggested - for example - that the football was shit?
Incidentally, since MON went, some of the most zealous critics of the moaners in the past have now become the most zealous critics of the club.
It's ok when they're moaning, and they're expressing their opinions, see.
It's a word I use a lot, but it's all about balance. I can think of one particular poster, who I won't name, who said he thought MON desrved another season, but then posted NOTHING but criticism and was conspicuous by his absence when ever we won a game. I can also say that everytime I would even dare to suggest his transfer record was good, I'd end up in a me vs. the world argument. It works both ways.
As for some people now moaning at the club, I must confess I see very little of that. What i do see is questions and some doubts, which is understandable when a manager they rated walked out, but the 'pervailing opinion seems to be wait and see who the new manager is'. And anyway, I don't deny anyone their right to moan, but I do feel that what I see unfair criticism of ANY manager should be countered. If I saw someone having a pop at Randy ("he hasn't invested enough and is at asset stripper", etc.) I'd equally be arguing the toss with them.
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As for some people now moaning at the club, I must confess I see very little of that. What i do see is questions and some doubts, which is understandable when a manager they rated walked out, but the 'pervailing opinion seems to be wait and see who the new manager is'. And anyway, I don't deny anyone their right to moan, but I do feel that what I see unfair criticism of ANY manager should be countered. If I saw someone having a pop at Randy ("he hasn't invested enough and is at asset stripper", etc.) I'd equally be arguing the toss with them.
Your definition of unfair criticism and what others define unfair criticism aren't necessarily the same thing.
Getting back to the original point, it does make me chuckle that some people see things so black and white. Everything's either great, or it's all shit. I can't believe anyone really thinks life is like that.
There are some people on here who, until two weeks ago, fervently backed every little thing the club did and said against all criticism (and even suggested that not doing so was in some way "not getting behind the club"), yet now seem to be thoroughly miserable about pretty much everything - questioning the owner, questioning our ambition, and - to bring us back to the original point - drawing attention to the fact we've done nothing in the transfer market as a sign of impending doom whereas for the last four years, they'd have been telling us all not to panic etc etc.
Like I said. It's either all great or it's all shit for them. That's their perfect entitlement to be like that, I just find it amusing when they flip from one extreme to the other.
They're also the same people, incidentally, who have been criticising Gregnash for being thoroughly doomish for years now, yet are now making him look like the happiest of happy clappers.
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As for some people now moaning at the club, I must confess I see very little of that. What i do see is questions and some doubts, which is understandable when a manager they rated walked out, but the 'pervailing opinion seems to be wait and see who the new manager is'. And anyway, I don't deny anyone their right to moan, but I do feel that what I see unfair criticism of ANY manager should be countered. If I saw someone having a pop at Randy ("he hasn't invested enough and is at asset stripper", etc.) I'd equally be arguing the toss with them.
Your definition of unfair criticism and what others define unfair criticism aren't necessarily the same thing.
Getting back to the original point, it does make me chuckle that some people see things so black and white. Everything's either great, or it's all shit. I can't believe anyone really thinks life is like that.
There are some people on here who, until two weeks ago, fervently backed every little thing the club did and said against all criticism (and even suggested that not doing so was in some way "not getting behind the club"), yet now seem to be thoroughly miserable about pretty much everything - questioning the owner, questioning our ambition, and - to bring us back to the original point - drawing attention to the fact we've done nothing in the transfer market as a sign of impending doom whereas for the last four years, they'd have been telling us all not to panic etc etc.
Like I said. It's either all great or it's all shit for them. That's their perfect entitlement to be like that, I just find it amusing when they flip from one extreme to the other.
They're also the same people, incidentally, who have been criticising Gregnash for being thoroughly doomish for years now, yet are now making him look like the happiest of happy clappers.
With the bit in bold I think there's a difference, which is that we've previously had a manager who liked to work late in the window, so there's a justifiable 'relax - it'll happen' argument. Now it's a case of we'd usually have had a couple in by now and another couple lined up, but without a manager that isn't the case and time is running out.
As to the general point, it's pretty much a matter of how you see things. I could argue that some of the anri-MON brigade take great pleasure in trying to ridicule his supporters with the usual 'is diddums missing his Messiah' crap as opposed to discussing the issues effecting our club, which is the purpose of this messageboard. In each case, is either side of the argument posting a view that supports their past stance on MON, or are they speaking from the heart? Make your own mind up, but everything you could accuse one side of the other is also guilty of. For instance, why are those who up until two and a half weeks ago pounding MON for not having signed any players now quite content?
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It breaks ya heart doh it Tom.
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I see two possibilities here:-
1. Randy invested to get us where he wanted, but we haven't got there. Both in terms of CL qualification and increased revenue to support further spending. So his original goal of the club fudning itself and getting a return on his investment is still there, but if that's as a 6th-8th side and no more then fair enough, because he no longer thinks further investment will get us any higher.
2. He's happy to keep investing, mixed with a bit of restraint. So he wants the wagebill reduced, which he feels can be achieved due to non-playing high earners and the emerging youth, and then keep buying players within the revised framework. Sort of one step back in order to take two forward.
Either is his perogative as he owns the club, but number one does sound awfully close to the way Doug ran the club. I'd be perfectly happy with number 2, as would a good manager who may come in, so I agree the next appointment will say more about the club's ambitions than anything we hear from the General or Randy himself.
I've heard nothing to date that would suggest anything other than Option 2.
Neither have I, but then we also have not seen anything to date that confirms either theory, other than Randy's previous record with us, which lends itself towards option 2.
I think the proof is in the tasting, so it's a matter of sit back and see what happens. The new manager will be a significant pointer though, as in modern football the better he is the more money he'll have been promised to work with!
Absolutely John but when we have loons on here saying we are delaying appointing a new manager to save moneyHow many regular posters on here, for example, were calling for MON to get the bullet?
I can think of about five. You'd think there was a massive knot of "sack the manager" feeling, when it was nothing of the sort.
And I can only think of two posters on here who were jumping on anything negative with the zeal you suggest. OK, three if you include me ;)
I can think of plenty of times when poster x posted something in anyway negative about the club and was pounced on by a number of people.
Tell me about it. I remember pointing out the season before last at how poor the football was, even though we kept winning. Rather than see it as a direct attack at MON, it's all about wanting the best for the team, the club.
The next Villa manager is such an important appointment, it can not be over emphasised. Due to the timing of the departure of MON it may not be possible to get players in but we must go out and get the right man to lead us. As several have pointed out, the wrong man will lead to us losing our best players, not to mention failing to attract the best.
Get your pray mats out.