Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Risso on August 22, 2010, 01:06:36 PM
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Post-match comments here.
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Very bad day at the office! aka A Greg Nash field day! Calling Mr Nash to the thread, calling Mr Nash...
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I turned it off, don't even know what the final score was.
Oh well, you're on a hiding to nothing playing newly promoted teams away first game a la Stoke when they came up. The silver lining may be that it illustrates to the board that we definitely need a permanent manager and a striker at the very least.
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what the fuck happened there ??
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i know, it s a nitemare, gonna wake up in a bit
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Really terrible stuff. But it's one game. Newcastle were always going to be well up for this. I hope people don't slaughter the youngsters. They got found out today but it's part of their development.
It's how we bounce back which will be key.
All today has told me is that Kevin McDonald is not the long-term answer.
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We need MON back....
So we can sack the fucker
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Disgraceful
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Gutless.
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Absolutely disgraceful. Poor all over the pitch. Embarrassing and ashamed. To be beaten by that team 6-0 is horrendous. Inexcusable. Dire. What a fucking shower of shit.
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This is a nightmare. We've lost heavily under MON, but it was never against opposition such as this. This is truly miserable. We need a new manager as fast possible.
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Legitimately after the 30th minute, the worst Villa performance I have ever seen. No effort, no fight, absolutely fucking dreadful. Humiliating. Ireland playing in wrong position, midfield wide open. Defensively criminal, worse than schoolboy defending.
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6 FUCKIN NIL.
I can't actually believe I actually just watched something quite so abject.
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The scary thing is that Newcastle are a poor side and didn't even play that well.
This could be a very long season.
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Total horse shit.
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oh well, there's always bob brannan or whatever his name is
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Absolutely disgraceful. Poor all over the pitch. Embarrassing and ashamed. To be beaten by that team 6-0 is horrendous. Inexcusable. Dire. What a fucking shower of shit.
SIX!
Shit, I turned it off at 4-0. Fuck it, let's buy some players.
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I'm coming round to MON's critics' way of thinking. Tactics, substitutions, Luke Young, entertainment. Those are the main things.
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We need MON back....
So we can sack the fucker
Thank you. That has raised a smile.
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Never seen a game turn on a penalty miss so bad.
I honestly think if we'd scored that we'd have gone on to win.
That said from that moment on we were awful.
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Bloody awful. What or where was our defence, and can we please try and employ a striker that can be arsed....Carew was back to his usual loping self, barely mustering the effort to walk.
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Now randy get your arse into gear and get us a decent manager instead of the cheap option.
Sven or jol but not bob fuckin Bradley!
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Very worrying. Felt in every way like a David O'Leary era performance. Some nice football to begin with, some early chances, but what followed was an absolute shambles. Completely dominated in the air, outfought, and way way to open in midfield.
The lack of team spirit 2 games into the season is a big concern. And the sooner Collins and Cuellar are fit the better. MON, for all his faults, didn't produce many performances like that.
Our youngsters didn't exactly look ready for week in week out action did they? Albrighton clearly has lots of attributes, but I'm not yet sure whether he has the real class needed. Clark and Warnock's performances just reminded me so much of the Ridgewell days!!
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We were beaten by a physically stronger Newcastle side, not only in midfield but all over the pitch. Despite the result, I'm not too concerned providing we address the issue.
Our midfield today were just too weak. Downing, Albrighton, Ireland and the ever slower Petrov just can't tackle. We were not prepared for a battle. We'll continue to be a soft touch until we address this issue.
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I said that under MON you would rarely feel the true highs, but you'd also rarely feel the true lows. We have kind of felt both in the last two league games. We may have to get used to this in the post MON era.
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That was extremely embarrassing when it went to 3-0. The players should all be fined wages for just giving up.
If Carew had scored the penalty, it could've quite easily been a repeat of last week...but he didn't.
As shit as it turned out, we play like we did for the first 30 mins then we'll win a hell of a lot more than lose.
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I don't actually believe it. I suspect this is going to be our season - brilliant one week, ridiculously poor the next.
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Jesus I turned off at 4.
6 fricking 0!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sven, save us!!
Hell, Curbs...fucking save us!!!
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I just can't believe what I've just witnessed!
I understand that Newcastle, first game at home in the premiership after being promoted were always going to be up for this. Add to that the revenge they'd want for the game we put them down. But, BUT, what. The. Fuck. Was. That?
I just cannot draw any positives from that. Not one.
Utter, utter, shit.
Had this been our first game instead of the West Ham win, there's be an awful lot of people putting us down for relegation candidates.
This had better be nothing more that a very bad day at the office.
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I don't actually believe it. I suspect this is going to be our season - brilliant one week, ridiculously poor the next.
I hope it's that good.
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Where do you start? Felt sorry for Ash the only Villa player that looked up for it. Carew has to go, his indifference drags the team down, Downing is just a big girl and Petrov was woeful. Not knocking the young kids until they mature they will have bad days and it was expecting a lot of Ireland to perform today.
We palayed a very poor side and they beat us all over the field. Need a top manager with money to spend, and quickly.
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Ashley Young: The last time I saw someone ponce about, flap his arms and blame everyone else like that was David Ginola.
..and Richard Dunne was fucking pitiful.
From last Saturday to this - how on earth is that difference in performance possible?
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MON out >:(
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The only positive is it shows kmac can carry on as reserve coach!
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Iv'e seen more exciting stuff coming out of a slurry spreader.
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
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It seems a one-off day with a freakish but not wholly undeserved result, but this emphasises the need for stability as well as some player changes.
A new striker is now essential.
Playing the likes of Clark at home against teams with few attacking options is fine but today he struggled (I would have still played him over Beye and Davies however)
Defending crosses and set pieces has gone to pot. We rode our luck v Rapid but had the excuse of a Davies/Beye partnership then.
3-0 down after half an hour and the only shot we had for the rest of the game was an Ireland effort which had a similar end result to the penalty but from outside the box.
We were stuffed by a team who will finish 14th/15th at best. On that evidence we will be in the 8th -15th group of teams as well....
It can only get better, can't it?
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Bloody awful. What or where was our defence, and can we please try and employ a striker that can be arsed....Carew was back to his usual loping self, barely mustering the effort to walk.
He's a disgrace - has been for months - penalty effort just summed him up.
He's a legend for some because he got caught in a titty bar - not for what he has done for us.
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Man of the Match - The poor feckers who travelled up there, closely followed by us who watched it online.
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To be fair the only player who tried was Ashley Young, the rest ought to walk back from Newcastle!
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MON teams were aside from a couple of notable defeats consistently good away from home, and boringly sub par at home. I'd have taken that today. 6-0 is massively humiliating. We all felt that the players sent a message with their display vs West Ham last week, so what was today's message?
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west ham and newcastle . Two games against 2 very poor sides. the difference being newcastles physical attributes. Doesn't look good especially with Bob Bradley waiting in the wings. Please No.
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no direction and no leadership.where were the senior players?petrov?is he our captain?all eleven were absolute garbage but when we needed to pull together we fell apart.i aint goin to work tomoro
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My view for what its worth.
Kevin McDonald was never for me a legitimate replacement for MON, nor is Bradley or Klinsmann.IF we want to remain a big club we need a Jol/Moyes/Hiddink, nothing else.
Not enough men on the pitch, Dunne, LYoung and Petrov were at best anonymous, at worst complacent.
Get money for Carew, Lyoung, NRC now, whilst we still can, and tbh if we can get some money for Friedel, i might even consider that.
Downing was a complete and utter waste of a shirt today, either shape up or ship out.
Whats happened to Warnock, 3 shit games on the trot?
The team looked lethargic today, and lacked leadership and direction both on and off the pitch.WE need to get a man in relatively quickly otherwise it could be a long, long season.
Thought Ireland looked ok, but not in a 2 man midfield.
Need Gabby, Collins and Cuellar back as soon as poss, i hope Dunne is carrying an injury, otherwise i fear for his season.
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We have nothing upfront!
We despretely missed Ash on the left today, Downing was shite.
Kevins tactics were truly awfull today, bringing heskey on when you need a goal is a certain way to loose the fans!
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Fuck off John Carew. Fuck off Stillian Petrov. Fuck off Aston Villa.
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Gutless. The only player to come out of that with any credit is Young (A). That penalty miss was the absolute key moment. I said after that we would lose just didn't think we would get stuffed. Too many bad performances from usually strong performers. Brad at fault for at least two goals, Dunne very poor, Petrov anonymous, Carew missed the pen then got worse, Ireland in the wrong position and downing abysmal.
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I don't actually believe it. I suspect this is going to be our season - brilliant one week, ridiculously poor the next.
I hope it's that good.
Not sure if Kevin Mac was nieve but we lined up as if we were playing at home, rather than ready for a battle away against a very physically strong team. We have plenty of flair but as Man Utd and Chelsea demonstrate, week in week out, you have to win the midfield battle first. As I said when the team selection was announced, we should have started with NRC and left Ireland on the bench. Also away from home, I'm not sure we can have the luxury of playing both Downing and Alrighton.
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I really thought we might struggle as soon as I saw the team - replacing Milner with Ireland, in a like-for-like way, was asking for trouble, and I felt it was a bit naive by MacDonald to be honest.
Albrighton struggled noticeably against the first decent full-back he's faced. He'll learn from that, I'm sure, but he'll need to as there are much better defenders than Enrique out there!
Luke Young had, in my opinion, an absolute stinker of a game, and the way they went for him after half time suggested that they noticed that too. I'm not his biggest fan, but I am sure that he is better than we saw today.
Carew......I really think he's 'gone'. And that penalty was abysmal.
I think we should really, really strive to get the new manager in as quickly as possible. The players look like they need direction and organisation, and leadership. I'm not sure that MacDonald can provide that, good coach as he may be. I think the relationship between manager and players needs to be different from that of coach/reserve team manager.
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Iv'e seen more exciting stuff coming out of a slurry spreader.
That made me laugh.
Right, back to being pissed off.
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A bit of an overeaction on here at the moment considering if Carew had scored the penalty it could've been us winning comfortably. From one kick of the ball, it didn't go our way. Yes, it turned out to be extremely embarrassing, especially the way they played at 3-0, but it could've quite easily been different.
Kev Mac should still be given the opportunity when the likes of fucking Bob Bradley is being mentioned.
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I don't actually believe it. I suspect this is going to be our season - brilliant one week, ridiculously poor the next.
I hope it's that good.
Not sure if Kevin Mac was nieve but we lined up as if we were playing at home, rather than ready for a battle away against a very physically strong team. We have plenty of flair but as Man Utd and Chelsea demonstrate, week in week out, you have to win the midfield battle first. As I said when the team selection was announced, we should have started with NRC and left Ireland on the bench. Also away from home, I'm not sure we can have the luxury of playing both Downing and Alrighton.
It's a luxury playing Downing???
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The midfield was cut open far too easily. The last goal was just another example. We made Newcastle look like Barcelona today. Kevin Mac took much of the praise last week, but as much as he'll be gutted today, he and his staff were blown apart tactically today.
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Oh well, you're on a hiding to nothing playing newly promoted teams away first game a la Stoke when they came up. The silver lining may be that it illustrates to the board that we definitely need a permanent manager and a striker at the very least.
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Totally agree, for some reason Carew has had a shocking start to the season and with Gabby injured we are in trouble. Heskey could'nt hit a barn door so a new manager and ROBBIE KEANE is a must in my book. UTV!
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I'm convinced Carew was on something during that game. I have never seen anyone so switched off in my life.
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Kev Mac should still be given the opportunity when the likes of fucking Bob Bradley is being mentioned.
You've got a point there.
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I know football is all about opinions etc etc, but I don't see how anyone can expect a central two of Ireland and Petrov to work.
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A bit of an overeaction on here at the moment considering if Carew had scored the penalty it could've been us winning comfortably. From one kick of the ball, it didn't go our way. Yes, it turned out to be extremely embarrassing, especially the way they played at 3-0, but it could've quite easily been different.
Kev Mac should still be given the opportunity when the likes of fucking Bob Bradley is being mentioned.
Overreaction?
To be honest, i think the fact that the players heads aren't on spikes after that shows how calm we all are.
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Got that just lost 6-0 feeling but what makes it worse is those thinking its KM fault and not MON!!
He bought all that shite!!
He should hang his little receding curly bonce in Fucking shame this afternoon! Oh yes thats right he doesn't give a shit!!
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For the first 20-30 minutes, we dominated, then they attacked and we didn't have a defence, especially in midfield.
We lacked our big defenders, and had no defensive midfield players. We looked set up for a home game, and when the crunch came, they were not man enough to take it on. That's down to the manager, I doubt a Mon team would have capitulated so easily.
I think we have to cope with these sort of results until the players know who will be the permanent manager, and whilst the reserve team coach learns his PL trade.
Desperate stuff defensively at times, really was.
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A bit of an overeaction on here at the moment considering if Carew had scored the penalty it could've been us winning comfortably. From one kick of the ball, it didn't go our way. Yes, it turned out to be extremely embarrassing, especially the way they played at 3-0, but it could've quite easily been different.
Kev Mac should still be given the opportunity when the likes of fucking Bob Bradley is being mentioned.
I think the downside was it was obvious we were getting overrun in midfield at 3-0 down but the only sub he made to address that was done so late in the game it made no difference.
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I'm not sure you can overreact to that performance post 30 mins. It is the worst I have ever seen from Villa.
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We are a football club.
Owner/CEO/Manager/Coaches/players/Tea-lady/Supporters.
WE lost 6-0 at Newcastle, no-one else, WE.
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Kev Mac should still be given the opportunity when the likes of fucking Bob Bradley is being mentioned.
You've got a point there.
I said last week that calling for KM to get the job after one result was daft, as the next result could go the other way. I didn't expect it to go quite so far the other way, though.
I do, however, think that appointing Bob Bradley would be insanity and make KM look by far the better option. In fact, appointing Bradley would make me really question the leadership
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A bit of an overeaction on here at the moment considering if Carew had scored the penalty it could've been us winning comfortably. From one kick of the ball, it didn't go our way. Yes, it turned out to be extremely embarrassing, especially the way they played at 3-0, but it could've quite easily been different.
Kev Mac should still be given the opportunity when the likes of fucking Bob Bradley is being mentioned.
I doubt 'even' Bob Bradley would have played Petrov and Ireland as a central two!
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A bit of an overeaction on here at the moment considering if Carew had scored the penalty it could've been us winning comfortably. From one kick of the ball, it didn't go our way. Yes, it turned out to be extremely embarrassing, especially the way they played at 3-0, but it could've quite easily been different.
Unfortunately disagree.
We were beaten to nearly every 50/50 ball even before the Penalty. We were not done by skill and quality, we were beaten by heart, guts and determination from the first whistle.
That is what is so unforgivable.
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A bit of an overeaction on here at the moment considering if Carew had scored the penalty it could've been us winning comfortably. From one kick of the ball, it didn't go our way. Yes, it turned out to be extremely embarrassing, especially the way they played at 3-0, but it could've quite easily been different.
Kev Mac should still be given the opportunity when the likes of fucking Bob Bradley is being mentioned.
I don't think it is possible to overreact to that. We made a shit team look like world beaters. It's only 1 game and we can bounce back but the performance was as bad as it can possibly be.
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Bewildered, I have to say.
We all marked it down as a very attacking lineup before kick off but I don't think anyone expected us to get carved up like that. Maybe we should have. Certainly Kevin MacDonald should have.
After the first goal went in, Newcastle grew in confidence and got the crowd right behind them just as I feared they might. We couldn't get the ball back and were under so much pressure in defence that we just crumbled.
I expected a brighter performance in the second half but it got even worse. I can only remember us being in their half on two or three occasions.
They've not all become bad players inside a week but 9 goals shipped in 2 matches is a worry.
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
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Why were we so bad? Why the lack of fight? why the lack of ideas? I am struggling to understand the polar opposites in performance between last week and this. Football is baffling some times, how can we lose 6-0 to Newcastle?
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Someone mentioned we seemed to lack team spirit. Do you reckon it was resent from the rest of the team on Milner leaving for a shit load more money and Ireland coming in on a the highest wages straight-away.
Irelands interview in todays papers on players being paid correctly has bit him in the ass.
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Oddly, after 5 I felt a bit better. It feels more like a fluke somehow (I hope).
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For the first 20-30 minutes, we dominated, then they attacked and we didn't have a defence, especially in midfield.
We lacked our big defenders, and had no defensive midfield players. We looked set up for a home game, and when the crunch came, they were not man enough to take it on. That's down to the manager, I doubt a Mon team would have capitulated so easily.
I think we have to cope with these sort of results until the players know who will be the permanent manager, and whilst the reserve team coach learns his PL trade.
Desperate stuff defensively at times, really was.
Is it just me or does anyone else think that Friedal is past his best and no longer up for the job? You need a keeper who inspires confidence in his defence and I don't think he has done that for months.
Is Shay Given beyond our budget?
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Got that just lost 6-0 feeling but what makes it worse is those thinking its KM fault and not MON!!
He bought all that shite!!
He should hang his little receding curly bonce in Fucking shame this afternoon! Oh yes thats right he doesn't give a shit!!
Jesus, that's the most embarrasing thing I've ever read in my life. Fortuntaely I think Kevin;s got a bit more about him and wouldn't try to hide behind such stupid excuses, he picked the wrong side pure and simple.
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A bit of an overeaction on here at the moment considering if Carew had scored the penalty it could've been us winning comfortably. From one kick of the ball, it didn't go our way. Yes, it turned out to be extremely embarrassing, especially the way they played at 3-0, but it could've quite easily been different.
Kev Mac should still be given the opportunity when the likes of fucking Bob Bradley is being mentioned.
I'd suggest that things like "if Carew had converted" and "it could easily have been different" and what not are of limited value when the result has gone so comprehensively against us. Maybe had it finished 3-1 or something, yes, but 6-0?
The club is now in a pretty tricky position. Manager bailing on us on the eve of the season, looking around for a new manager, in need of doing some business (in both directions) in the transfer market, a truly, truly dreadful performance and result at the start of the season, a number of players out injured ... we need some strong leadership, and it has to come from the top.
A good, proven manager in within the next couple of days, please.
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Got that just lost 6-0 feeling but what makes it worse is those thinking its KM fault and not MON!!
He bought all that shite!!
He should hang his little receding curly bonce in Fucking shame this afternoon! Oh yes thats right he doesn't give a shit!!
It's not MON's fault at all. I won't defend what he did for walking out, but did you commend him last week for the win over West Ham, or are you going to criticise him as it suits the situation?
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We are a football club.
Owner/CEO/Manager/Coaches/players/Tea-lady/Supporters.
WE lost 6-0 at Newcastle, no-one else, WE.
Can the tea lady play right back?
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From BBC Sport website:
"Aston Villa caretaker boss Kevin MacDonald: "Maybe I was a bit naive with the team I selected so I'll take the blame for what happened against a decent Newcastle team. Marc Albrighton ran out of steam and they played him very well and Ciaran Clark had a knock, so maybe I was wrong to play them." "
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I'm convinced Carew was on something during that game. I have never seen anyone so switched off in my life.
He seemed a bit lackadaisical against West Ham as well. Definitely lacking hustle. Albrighton has a lot of potential - he had not much help up front. Albrighton needs to put on a little muscle over the year. Kevin Mac was clearly out strategized. Villa was out hustled by Newcastle today. A new disciplinarian manager might be what Villa needs right now.
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
Which bits do you disagree with?
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
I don't think he is over reacting. That was a totally abject performance, lacking ANY fight whatsoever after just 30 mins.
We are right to be royally pissed off after that shite .
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
Which bits do you disagree with?
"Chris Smith"
*wink*
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I really can't put into words how I feel right now, 6-0 against the fucking toon.
We were totally outfaught in Midfield, Ireland can't play in a midfield 2 with Petrov, The midfield was so weak that they won every 50/50 ball in the middle. Albrighton didn't exist, neither did Downing or Ireland apart from the first 10 mins, I just spoke to my my mate's dad and he blames Mon, I know he wasn't in charge but he said it was the fucking shit we got left with by Martin.
The back 5 were shocking looked like they had never played together before! Friedel didn't control the area, why the fuck did he parry a shot back out into play? You push it out for a corner or at least away from the 6 yard box, Football at least has a sense of humour, I've had my head in the clouds for a week and now its in the gutter, Im distraught.
Worst performance since Chelsea and infact it was as bad as the 5-0 at Anfield, God knows what Man ure or Chelski would have done to us today
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I'm coming round to the conclusion that it was Carews fault we lost that. Score the penalty and we win the game comfortably.
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Even after today Id still like to see KM given the job fulltime......
PS...fuck off Bob Bradley!!!!
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Carew was either intoxicated or under the influence shockingly poor...
Total rubbish
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Disgraceful.
It shows how shit you are when Alan Smith is dictating the game.
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I'm coming round to the conclusion that it was Carews fault we lost that. Score the penalty and we win the game comfortably.
Not necessarily. We could still have got the first goal but Brad should have saved Barton's shot. That's the reason we went behind and they got on top. The defence was a shambles, admittedly with no protection in front, which is why the defeat was a bad as it was.
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
Which bits do you disagree with?
"That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years".
Wolves away last season, Hull away the season before where we actually won...
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Horrible.
When's the last time we shipped 6 in the league?
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Fuck off John Carew. Fuck off Stillian Petrov. Fuck off Aston Villa.
Cheerio!
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we got beat 6-0 by a team with Routeldge and Alan Smith in it....
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Horrible.
When's the last time we shipped 6 in the league?
What, since the 7 at chelsea a few games back ?
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It's bad enough to lose 6-0, but to do it against a very average, newly promoted Newcastle side is absolutely atrocious. Not only that, but we didn't even have a single shot on target.
But the worst thing...
We got off LIGHTLY. That could easily have been 10-0.
Single worst performance I have ever seen. Everyone involved with today should be deeply ashamed. Disgusting.
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Horrible.
When's the last time we shipped 6 in the league?
What, since the 7 at chelsea a few games back ?
Well, quite. I just meant specifically 6.
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Even after today Id still like to see KM given the job fulltime......
PS...fuck off Bob Bradley!!!!
Can we wait until he learns what to do. He said himself his team selection was naive, and why.
Similar problems would arrive if Bradley took over too I'd have thought, until he was up to speed, but like KM, I think long term both would be able to do a decent job.
Can we afford to wait a season while they learn the ropes. I don't think so. any mew manager will need time to assess the squad and make them into his own idea of a team, that's one of the worst parts of Mon's timing, but a fully fit squad would offer more, defensively, now its obvious Ireland is no Milner defensively
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
Which bits do you disagree with?
"That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years".
Wolves away last season, Hull away the season before where we actually won...
Don't be ridiculous.
It's some weird version of reality where a 1-1 draw at Wolves is worse than a 6-0 at Newcastle.
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I think we've all got carried away with all the talk about everyone sayin they glad Mon gone and were now attacking rather than being told not to lose bollocks.
Lookin at that today were no different at all
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Disgraceful.
It shows how shit you are when Alan Smith is dictating the game.
I thought Barton had a great game for them.
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lets not dwell on the negatives,
lets take the positives out of the performance and move on !
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From BBC Sport website:
"Aston Villa caretaker boss Kevin MacDonald: "Maybe I was a bit naive with the team I selected so I'll take the blame for what happened against a decent Newcastle team. Marc Albrighton ran out of steam and they played him very well and Ciaran Clark had a knock, so maybe I was wrong to play them." "
No maybe about it, Buddy. You fucked it big style.
However, I'll give you big brownie points for putting your hand up and for not saying that the lads were t'riffic.
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The senior pros in today's team should be ashamed of themselves. To lie down like that wearing the Villa shirt is unforgivable.
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I'm coming round to the conclusion that it was Carews fault we lost that. Score the penalty and we win the game comfortably.
I know you hate carew but to blame him for our team shipping 6 is utter bollocks
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I'm coming round to the conclusion that it was Carews fault we lost that. Score the penalty and we win the game comfortably.
We would still have had the problem of five midfielders whose only interest is attack, fullbacks being torn apart by mediocre wingers, centre defenders who couldn't cope with one striker and our own striker who as your username suggests, doesn't care anywhere near enough to get the most out of his ability.
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lets not dwell on the negatives,
lets take the positives out of the performance and move on !
What were they??? We didn't lose 10?
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We have nothing upfront!
We despretely missed Ash on the left today, Downing was shite.
Kevins tactics were truly awfull today, bringing heskey on when you need a goal is a certain way to loose the fans!
When you need 3 goals is a joke. Why not the Fonz. Let's not overeact. We are in transit. Expect a bumpy ride for while. Remember Rome wasnt built in a day.
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Disgraceful.
It shows how shit you are when Alan Smith is dictating the game.
I thought Barton had a great game for them.
i said Barton would be a good player for Villa, even though he has some personal bagage to sort out.
i was told by a mod, that it was the most insane thing he had read on this site
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I think it just sunk in. I was angry, then I was numb, now I'm just sad.
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
Which bits do you disagree with?
"That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years".
Wolves away last season, Hull away the season before where we actually won...
Don't be ridiculous.
It's some weird version of reality where a 1-1 draw at Wolves is worse than a 6-0 at Newcastle.
We were shocking against Wolves, far worse than today, despite the score.
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My son was there and confirms that it's the worst he's seen from a Villa team in his 13 years of watching.
Dunne - AWOL; Friedel - I think he's gone over the hill; LY and Warnock - got caught out too often; Downing - not good enough; Carew - lost the will to play.
There is some surgery to be done I think.
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We have nothing upfront!
We despretely missed Ash on the left today, Downing was shite.
Kevins tactics were truly awfull today, bringing heskey on when you need a goal is a certain way to loose the fans!
When you need 3 goals is a joke. Why not the Fonz. Let's not overeact. We are in transit. Expect a bumpy ride for while. Remember Rome wasnt built in a day.
There were three really shocking things from KM today.
First was starting with Petrov and Ireland in the middle and not realising that that central pairing would get walked over at will.
Second was not changing anything at half time.
Third was bringing on Heskey when 3-0 down. Regardless of Heskey's attributes and whatever he does or does not add to the side, I don't think anyone would even start to argue that he adds goals, so what that was about I do not know.
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lets not dwell on the negatives,
lets take the positives out of the performance and move on !
What were they??? We didn't lose 10?
The only positive we can take from today is it's bloody obvious where we need to strengthen.
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Disgraceful.
It shows how shit you are when Alan Smith is dictating the game.
I thought Barton had a great game for them.
i said Barton would be a good player for Villa, even though he has some personal bagage to sort out.
i was told by a mod, that it was the most insane thing he had read on this site
On the basis of one game against a team putting in what was their worst performance in a long time, you reckon that you're vindicated in suggesting that a mediocre, mental, jailbird nutter would be a good player for us?
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
Which bits do you disagree with?
"That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years".
Wolves away last season, Hull away the season before where we actually won...
Don't be ridiculous.
It's some weird version of reality where a 1-1 draw at Wolves is worse than a 6-0 at Newcastle.
We were shocking against Wolves, far worse than today, despite the score.
Mark, honestly. The Wolves game doesn't come remotely close to this. I cannot believe that you could think that.
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Disgraceful.
It shows how shit you are when Alan Smith is dictating the game.
Haha............ So true
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Disgraceful.
It shows how shit you are when Alan Smith is dictating the game.
I thought Barton had a great game for them.
i said Barton would be a good player for Villa, even though he has some personal bagage to sort out.
i was told by a mod, that it was the most insane thing he had read on this site
Barton did have a good game, which is hard to swallow as he's a despicable human being.
Should have been sent off first half though.
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What can one say positive except BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :P!!!
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There were three really shocking things from KM today.
First was starting with Petrov and Ireland in the middle and not realising that that central pairing would get walked over at will.
Second was not changing anything at half time.
Third was bringing on Heskey when 3-0 down. Regardless of Heskey's attributes and whatever he does or does not add to the side, I don't think anyone would even start to argue that he adds goals, so what that was about I do not know.
Interestingly, on one of the Newcastle forums, they asked Villa fans various questions in regard to this match.
Everyone of them said that Albrighton was the man to watch out for and I think all but one said that Heskey was easily our worst player.
I bet the Newcastle fans who read that were thinking 'WTF' when the substitutions were being made.
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I think we've all got carried away with all the talk about everyone sayin they glad Mon gone and were now attacking rather than being told not to lose bollocks.
Lookin at that today were no different at all
Sadly I have to agree. What happened to the passing? Why do you bring on EH when you need goals.
On the bright side things will change. KM can learn or a new manager will have new ideas.
UTV.
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I think that today has made it obvious that Petrov, although a good deep midfielder, is not a defensive midfielder. With Milner, this problem could be overcome. With Ireland, we need another player in there.
Classic 4-3-3 I think, with NRC in there unless we get Flamini or someone. I think I've been arguing for that system for three years now, so I don't really expect much to change - but it has to.
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Seeing Alan Shearer collecting winnings from someone as he'd obviously had Andy Carroll down for a hat-trick just made me wanna puke my eyeballs out.
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I think that today has made it obvious that Petrov, although a good deep midfielder, is not a defensive midfielder. With Milner, this problem could be overcome. With Ireland, we need another player in there.
Classic 4-3-3 I think, with NRC in there unless we get Flamini or someone. I think I've been arguing for that system for three years now, so I don't really expect much to change - but it has to.
I would agree with you.
Flamini would be an excellent signing, too. I do wonder how much more mileage we're going to get out of Petrov, though. Not very much if we are going to play him in a central two very often.
We need to sort the managerial appointment out, and we need to get into the transfer market in the remaining week and a bit and start to sort out what we need.
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Seeing Alan Shearer collecting winnings from someone as he'd obviously had Andy Carroll down for a hat-trick just made me wanna puke my eyeballs out.
Turn the telly off.
I'm not watching anything today which might even hint at events of earlier on.
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That debacle puts last weeks performance against West Ham into perspective.
Losing 7-0 to Chelsea last season was humiliating but to lose 6-0 to a very ordinary at best Newcastle is disgraceful.
MacDonald has just lost my vote to get the managers job.
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It's such a shame we don't have Delph at the moment as he could sort out that situation in the midfield pretty well. For now, NRC has to play in a 3 with Petrov and Ireland, I don't mind admitting that I was wrong about him.
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Reo Coker wasnt in the mood when he came on, for someone supposedly there to add bite, he got caught on the ball much too often. Petrov remains an enigma, one that I dont get either, in all his time at VP. A DeJong type player that can boss midfield I think is the player we need. I thought Downing crossed well, Young was good until he got frustrated, Ireland obviously needs more team time. Felt Clark was outbattled by their new talismanic number 9, and Dunne seemed poor on decision making. I still think Cuellar is a better left back for the team than Young. We didnt need another player making runs, we needed to mop up at the back and put themselves about a bit. We played the better football for half an hour. That said when our heads were down, we never looked up for the fight in the second half. That to me was a big concern, we have to turn the corner if play goes against us. We played shit, got dicked, yet only three points off the top. Come on lads, you know you are much better than this
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I think Kev's interview whilst admitting fault, was still a bit of a cop out. He was naive, but more in the sense that you can not play 5 attacking midfielders in the same side. Also why couldn't he just say it was an unacceptable performance? He'd get a lot more respect for it.
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Disgraceful.
It shows how shit you are when Alan Smith is dictating the game.
I thought Barton had a great game for them.
i said Barton would be a good player for Villa, even though he has some personal bagage to sort out.
i was told by a mod, that it was the most insane thing he had read on this site
On the basis of one game against a team putting in what was their worst performance in a long time, you reckon that you're vindicated in suggesting that a mediocre, mental, jailbird nutter would be a good player for us?
coarse not,
i was just giving an oppinion and him as a footballer,
i realise it was not going to be overly popular, but i dont think it was as insane as he made out, thats all
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Friedal - At fault for at least two goals. Get Shay Given in now
Young - Poor at times positionally I thought
Warnock - Abysmal passing of the ball, often caught out ball watching
Dunne - Reminded me of the fat kid that can hoof the ball for an Under 11 team, you just know that every now and then he'll slice one - and he did. At fault for at least two goals
Clark - Struggled against the ariel prowess of Carroll
Albrighton - Needs to do the simple thing every now and then and not run at the opposition every time.
Petrov - Shit, can't run and runs out of steam after 60 minutes STILL!
Ireland - Clearly not match fit, shouldn't have started
Downing - The new Nigel Callaghan. - He has balls the size of a hamster and my 4 year old can tackle harder than him. Gutless.
Carew - I wanted Heskey on at half time, thats how bad he was. He isn't bothered.
Young - Did look interested, but he'd do better getting on with the game instead of showing his pathetic, petulant, spoilt brat behaviour.
Reo- Coker - done well against Rabid Vienna, should have played today.
Beye - Why?
Heskey - £50-60,000 quid a week he supposedly 'earns'. The most expensive clown in history.
So much for the players wanting Kevin Mac to get the job....sure didn't look like it to me.
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I don't even know where to start to be honest. From such an effervescent, sparkling performance last week, to this absolutely abject, gutless surrender today. That Carroll is a terrible player, so for us to make him look class and hand him a hat trick really makes me angry.
So, what do we do now?
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So, what do we do now?
Appoint a decent manager - quickly - and support him in the transfer market.
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So, what do we do now?
Appoint a decent manager - quickly - and support him in the transfer market.
Yep, this.
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We need to sort the managerial appointment out, and we need to get into the transfer market in the remaining week and a bit and start to sort out what we need.
Easier said than done though, especially for a new manager who doesn't know the squad. That's what makes O'Neills timing so shit.
Sensibly any new man will manage what he has in the hope its good enough to limit the damage until Jan, surely.
Unless of course he knows enough about the Villa squad and the European market already
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
Slight over reaction there, Greg.
Which bits do you disagree with?
"That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years".
Wolves away last season, Hull away the season before where we actually won...
Don't be ridiculous.
It's some weird version of reality where a 1-1 draw at Wolves is worse than a 6-0 at Newcastle.
We were shocking against Wolves, far worse than today, despite the score.
No, we weren't. We at least defended correctly in that game.
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Utterly speechless
Just flown back from my hols in Spain, I get into Southampton airport and have five texts waiting for me. Two of them I know will be the team sheets, and I think 'oh, goody, the other three probably have us 2-1 up or similar'. I won't bother to go on. Suffice to say that the effects of two weeks on the Costa Blanca have been completely wiped out by coming home to steady drizzle and THAT scoreline. And to think I was looking forward to MOTD tonight. I won't go anywhere near watching this now....
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That Carroll is a terrible player, so for us to make him look class and hand him a hat trick really makes me angry.
Thank you, Riss, been waiting for someone to mention this. We should be upset with two things today: the performance of the referee (which, although not causing the result or anything daft like that, was in-keeping with the spinelessness he showed in the second half of his game last week) and our own incredibly poor performance. Newcastle are a rubbish, rubbish team who should struggle to stay up. We should do so much better than this.
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I guess it was predictable that there would be threads started ridiculing individual players and all the rest of it, but team today just lacked balance.
I mentioned in the pre match thread that I didn't want to see Ireland start alongside Petrov, he's not that kind of player. Both suffered as a result and our midfield was overrun.
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Risso, I have more concerns that we made Colocini look like a good player by not threatening him, with two big strikers in Carew and Hesk.... ok one big striker and Heskey. I dont however think Carroll in front of his fans is a terrible player. He was well up for it, and would have given Terry just as much of a working over. As to what now.... I still feel like the rug has been pulled, and im pretty angry about it. Sixth with virtually the same squad as last year suddenly feels miles away
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I left the pub when we went 4-0 down... to lose 6-0 to a promoted team is beyond a disgrace, it's a personal insult to the fans - I feel demoralised.
I know we got beat pretty bad but I can't help but think how different it could of possibly been if Carew, er, didn't try and hit an airplane from the penalty spot. If we'd gone 1-0 up we'd have settled down and they would have started to panic a little.
Despite that, even at half-time I was left thinking ''how our we 3-0 down... we actually haven't played bad, we've actaully played better than them". It just seems everything went right for Newcastle and everything that could possibly go wrong for us, did go wrong.
Macdonald got his team wrong I'm afraid. He should of played a 4-2-3-1 with Petrov and Reo-Coker holding in midfield, Young and Downing on the wings and Ireland just playing off Carew.
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Bang on, Situation.
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So, what do we do now?
Appoint a decent manager - quickly - and support him in the transfer market.
That's just what I said on another thread it has to happen now, I feel were back to square one all over again
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I'm off to hack my head off with a large knife.
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The general always says that Randy likes his actions to speak louder than his words. Now is the time for action.
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Out thought, out fought and outplayed by a Championship side.
That second half was as bad as anything we've seen in 20 years, absolutely pathetic all over the pitch. Kevin picked the wrong team and, after the first 30 minutes, they played as though they knew it. I hope we've got some defenders coming back to fitness soon otherwise I can see it happening again.
Fucking useless.
I'd say that was spot on to be honest. As dismal an away performance as I can recall, and against a newly promoted team as well. Woeful. MacDonald's admission of naivety doesn't impress me either. He picked the wrong team, then made the sort of shit substitutions that managers make when they know the game's up. Heskey on the right wing? FFS.
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A certain bald fella must be wondering what the hell he's done.
In fairness to Ireland, he hasn't played any preseason, so he was always unlkely to be on top form today.
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As soon as I saw the line up I was very worried. I said after Thursday night that Albrighton should be rested and Reo-Coker put in midfield with Ireland alongside Ashley behind Carew.
I think a lot of managers and full backs will have sussed Albrighton now and he really needs to think about his game if he is to progress - and needs a good coach to assist him.
However, as Waddle said we dominated the game early on and to be fair Newscastle couldn't get anywhere near us. Until that big useless lump missed his fourth sitter in two games and that completely turned the game. If that had gone in I think we could easily have nipped in with another one and it would have been game over. They were on the back foot, we were moving the ball about and pulling them apart at the back. However once they got in front, we started dropping off them (as usual!) giving them space in midfield and no one was wanting the ball. That meant we resorted to the hoof again and of course the lamp post just conceded possession and it came straight back.
I think RL has to make a decision fairly quickly - if it is going to be KM tell him and let him try and bring in/ship out who he wants. If not bring the new man in asap so he can do the same.
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At least it gives me another team to absolutely loathe this season alongside the bindippers, the Mercenaries and the classless chavs. No, hang on, I already hate the team with the bestest supporters in the world. When my wife asked me what I thought of them at the airport today, I described them as 'F*****g w*****s' to which she took offence at me saying that in front of the girls, asking me whether I couldn't just say 'I'm not too keen on people from Newcastle'
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It was pretty much what Mac Donald said in his preview. Newcastle wouldn't have won 6-1 if Carew had scored. Maybe the players didn't get told off in half-time like before, maybe Ireland should have been in Young's position from the start. It felt worse after we lost there 3-1 in 2007.
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The crazy thing about supporting Villa is that we can be on top of the world one day, beating West Ham very convincingly, signing Stephen Ireland and drawing away to Vienna with a very much second string. Then what happens just as you are riding high thinking all is right in the villa world, you go and get your pants pulled down by the newly promoted geordies, why do we kid ourselves when more often than not the reality bites you when you least expect it.
Bloody typical Villa!
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One things for sure, no knee jerk reaction. Unfortunately taking a bit of time will mean no new signings. Looked to me today as although our caretaker manager made some tactical mistakes the senior players dont want Kevin Mac. One thing Bob Bradley will bring is discipline to these over paid prima donnas.
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That Carroll is a terrible player, so for us to make him look class and hand him a hat trick really makes me angry.
If he's a terrible player and scores three what does that make Clarke and co. He's very left sided but he scores goals and scores them well.
As to what do we do now, sit back and take a breath, knee jerk reactions because of a humiliating defeat are not going to solve the long term shit, left behind by Mon, just as appointing KM is going to solve the managerial problem.
Today just shows how important it it to take time to assess the right man
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Kevins tactics were truly awfull today, bringing heskey on when you need a goal is a certain way to loose the fans!
He didn't have a lot of options (to Heskey), though, did he?
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The players lost the game but his midfield selection was a big big mistake
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Watched match in comfort of my lounge - good job I was alone - nightmare's are made of this-
I'm shell shocked - just as last week's 3-0 win didn't suggest the title, similary losing 6-0
this week doesn't equate to relegation
6 (yes SIX) without reply - perhaps were were that bad after all
Even after Geordies scored their second I (and ESPN) reckoned we were in with a shout
but the second half was the most insipid performance from a set of Villa shirts since I said
it the last time -
I honestly don't believe KMac wants the top job - he has made some howlers today
Selection of Stephen (I don't acknowledge away fans) Ireland in starting line up after
possibly one training session with new team mates-
Whatever motivation technique he tried at half time clearly didn't work as we were
a shadow of the team from the first 45 and didn't have an effort on target in the second 45
Introduce Heskey - fair enough - but playing him on right wing !! Our previous manager did
that and it didn't work then either -
Not many managers would do an interview straight after a 6-0 defeat but please come out
with better lines than "it wasn't to be" - or believe you were naive in selecting Marc and Ciaran
as those two didn't let us down like certain other individuals I could mention -
I'm not having a go at KMac - I respect him as a coach and enjoy watching the reserves which
I trust he will continue to coach for years to come, but .......................look what happened today
The senior players will have to take a long hard look in the mirror today and ask themselves
if they put in the effort, committment, graft etc,. that is deserving of their salaries
Even after 70mins you could still hear the Villa 'away' loud and proud but on the pitch there was
a big fat zero -
Yes we did have a decision go against us (Young7 dubious handball) and the Geordies did have
the rub of the green for a couple of their goals but today's performance was un-acceptable-
My message to the players and coaching staff ?
Get down to Bodymoor Heath on Monday (no day off) and work this out of your system,
physically and mentally. If there are some home truths to be told ......tell them
The scars inflicted today will take time to heal by players and supporters alike-
we have an early opportunity to get back on track against Rapid on thursday,
a poor performance/result doesn't bear thinking about ................SORT IT !!
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On the train on the way back.
What to say?
I'm speechless. I just didn't see that coming until they scored their 3rd and then I knew it was going to be a high score for them.
Were they that good or were we that bad?
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I've really seen everything in my life as a Villa fan, highs as well as lows, but that performance today... something's not right.
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The players lost the game but his midfield selection was a big big mistake
I cannot believe he didn't see the problem with playing that midfield. He's a succesful reserve team manager, so surely has some tactical awareness?
It will be interesting to see if we can learn from our mistakes for the next couple of games. Any decent team(whch Newcastle aren't), will tear us apart again if we set up like that.
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There isn't a single player from Newcastle's starting line up that I'd have in our team ahead of the players we have. So to get so throughly destroyed by them was shocking.
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Like others, I didn't see that coming. No-one did.I can omly assume that the players were in cruise mode thinking that it was them that were great players, nothing to do with MON, then suddenly their puffed up self importance didnt look too clever.
It's really difficult to draw any conclusions fromm this result.
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That was just shocking, the worst bit about the match for me was that we were second to every challenge and it looked like we had just given up.
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Risso your kidding yourself. They had a proper striker in their team, something we aint got.
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Risso your kidding yourself. They had a proper striker in their team, something we aint got.
I think i could have got a hattrick up against Dunne and Clark today.
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When you get beat so comprehensively by for all normal measures are a very average team then something is not right? What is it that is wrong, lack of direction and leadership within the club?
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I'm just glad I turned it off at 2-0.
They were always going to be up for this and picking that team was naive. No fight in the middle at all, from what I saw. I said on Friday that Albrighton should have been rested, with NRC playing alongside Petrov and Ireland coming in alongside Downing and Young. We might not have won with that team but we wouldn't have got spanked for six.
For fuck's sake Villa, why do you do this to me?
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Every time I find myself thinking "we just lost 6-0 to Newcastle ... Newcastle" ... a wave of nausea comes over me
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lets not dwell on the negatives,
lets take the positives out of the performance and move on !
What were they??? We didn't lose 10?
The only positive we can take from today is it's bloody obvious where we need to strengthen.
The boardroom?
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There isn't a single player from Newcastle's starting line up that I'd have in our team ahead of the players we have. So to get so throughly destroyed by them was shocking.
I'd certainly prefer Carroll to Carew.
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lets not dwell on the negatives,
lets take the positives out of the performance and move on !
What were they??? We didn't lose 10?
The only positive we can take from today is it's bloody obvious where we need to strengthen.
The boardroom?
Yep, it is definitely their fault.
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When you get beat so comprehensively by for all normal measures are a very average team then something is not right? What is it that is wrong, lack of direction and leadership within the club?
Could that have anything to do with the manager walking out a few weeks ago?
A manger who controlled most everything to do with the club, a manager who took his main men with him leaving a huge vacuum behind, or where you criticising RL?
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If they ever wanted to exorcise the memories of the day we sent them packing to the Championship, this was it. The one thing about MON teams was they were amongst the best at fighting back when falling behind. Today we threw in the towel, and wherever anyone stands on the merits or not of MON, we haven't seen that very often in the past 4 years. Today at 1-0 down it was as if we lost all belief. It's amazing how two solid performances, that should provide momentum, could manifest itself into this.
The club needs to regroup fast. A massive game awaits on Thursday. The manager uncertainty needs to be removed so everyone can go back to doing their proper jobs. If it's someone like Klinsmann, then great. His mere presence will lift the club. Either way we need leadership right now because today is going to hurt.
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One of the reasons we lost so heavily today, is because our owner decided to sell our midfield engine and replace him with a player who clearly doesn't have the capacity to fill that role.
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Admittedly this is a bad result, but lets look at any positives to be taken from this game.
Right, thats that sorted then.
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At least Klinsmann will teach that over paid arsehole Carew how to take a penalty
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One of the reasons we lost so heavily today, is because our owner decided to sell our midfield engine and replace him with a player who clearly doesn't have the capacity to fill that role.
You can't say that after one game where everyone around him fell to pieces
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Went down the gym after the 5th. Kept thinking to myself how many they got, in the last few minutes.
I convinced myself they probably got 7, so six didn't seem so bad, when I found out the score. Then I realised Newcastle put six past us, and puked up
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When you get beat so comprehensively by for all normal measures are a very average team then something is not right? What is it that is wrong, lack of direction and leadership within the club?
Could that have anything to do with the manager walking out a few weeks ago?
A manger who controlled most everything to do with the club, a manager who took his main men with him leaving a huge vacuum behind, or where you criticising RL?
I do not disagree and Martin walking out when he did could not have come at a worse time, however people have been saying and I was agreeing with them that Martin leaving was a good thing and we would play with more freedom as the shackles had come off, well today was truly awful and as good as we played last week, its been a long time since I have seen us play as bad for 70 minutes of a game.
I am not blaming Randy, just feel now is the time for direction and leadership either from Randy or Paul Faulkner, we cannot carry on with a lame duck period forever, its nearly two weeks now since Martin left, they must know who is available and who is not, if the man they want is not available and noone else is suitable then confirm if you want to appoint Kevin McDonald for a longer term basis, we need to get the club moving again behind a common purpose, it is Martin's fault for walking when he did, but we cannot allow the instability to continue.
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Horrific result and crap performance. Most of all a freak result.
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I can't get my head round it, especially after the performance against the Hammers and the fact we rested the senior players on Thursday.
The Chelsea result last year was very tough to take but they are a quality side. The Geordies are just average.
Overrun in midfield and extremely shaky at the back. A lot of questions have to be asked of some of the senior pro's - particularly Dunne, Warnock, Petrov, NRC and Carew. Not one of them showed any leadership today. My biggest concern is that such a result could linger for the remainder of the season.
Bollocks!
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One of the reasons we lost so heavily today, is because our owner decided to sell our midfield engine and replace him with a player who clearly doesn't have the capacity to fill that role.
You can't say that after one game where everyone around him fell to pieces
I'm not particularly having a go at Ireland he may turn out to be a decent player for us. However on the basis of today's game he was not able to get round the pitch and close players down in the way that Milner did.
So the team was obviously weakened from the first game of the season and the decision to do that was not taken by the football people at the club. I find that worrying.
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OK it was a fluke enhanced by poor team selection by KM. Fair play to him for admitting. NRC should have started if both Downing and Albrighton were in the team. Ireland and Petrov...that was asking for trouble.
Totally devastaed that we have 6 scored against us by a team that is going to just about avoid relegation however it is only 1 match. Let's move on. No need to sack anyone.
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One of the reasons we lost so heavily today, is because our owner decided to sell our midfield engine and replace him with a player who clearly doesn't have the capacity to fill that role.
You can't say that after one game where everyone around him fell to pieces
I'm not particularly having a go at Ireland he may turn out to be a decent player for us. However on the basis of today's game he was not able to get round the pitch and close players down in the way that Milner did.
So the team was obviously weakened from the first game of the season and the decision to do that was not taken by the football people at the club. I find that worrying.
He hasn't played a full game in good number of months. Give him a chance to get himself match fit because's a lot better than what we saw today. So are the rest of our lot to be honest.
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On my way back. Difficult to understand the game and why we just didn't play.An average performance should get us a win here but we didn't even get close to below average.after such a positive week its dificult to fathom. Congrats to Newcastle though...enjoy the day.I'm stunned that's was just so unVilla
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I'm able to rationalise last week's uplifting 3-0 with today's abysmal 0-6 as two freak results. But in the last two weeks, if Ellis had lost a well regarded manager in those still mysterious circumstances, we'd sold our best player with no guarantee all the money will be spent on replacements (and we still don't know what if anything of the c£16m left will be available) and then we'd turned in a performance like that, we'd be marching down Trinity Road next weekend asking him in no uncertain terms what, the ****'s going on.
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Looking at things positively, despite the loss we're still ahead of Man City and Liverpool, only a point behind Arsenal and Spurs, and three behind Chelsea.
Right?
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Just saw Kev Mac on SSN talking, sounded like he'd be offered the job...
'After the next set of games I've got to sit down and decide if it's what I want to do or not what I want to do'.
How did Nige not start?
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
I blame Randy Lerner as we do not have a new manager
I blame Randy Lerner as Kevin Mac has just said on national TV that he will decide after the Everton game wether he will apply for the job. therefore no new manager will be appointed until after 01/09/10
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To me, today's defeat was mostly down to:
1. Naive tactics. We cannot beat Newcastle away the same way as West Ham at home. Newcastle controlled the midfield completely. We should have played with three central midfielders, because with only Petrov and Ireland we had no chance of containing them.
2. Poor defending in our own area. Clark's inexperience showed. Dunne and Warnock seems to be out of form. Thus, Newcastle scored almost whenever they had an opportunity. We miss Cuellar, who is our best defender tactically.
3. No attacking threat. Carew is totally out of form and hasn't had a decent pre-season. Heskey is over the top. Agbonlahor is injured.
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I'm able to rationalise last week's uplifting 3-0 with today's abysmal 0-6 as two freak results. But in the last two weeks, if Ellis had lost a well regarded manager in those still mysterious circumstances, we'd sold our best player with no guarantee all the money will be spent on replacements (and we still don't know what if anything of the c£16m left will be available) and then we'd turned in a performance like that, we'd be marching down Trinity Road next weekend asking him in no uncertain terms what, the ****'s going on.
Totally agree.
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
I blame Randy Lerner as we do not have a new manager
I blame Randy Lerner as Kevin Mac has just said on national TV that he will decide after the Everton game wether he will apply for the job. therefore no new manager will be appointed until after 01/09/10
Oh dear. the first real anti-randy post ive read. could this be the start of the tide turning? things need sorting out and quick, villa fans are known to be quite fickle! :-\
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I'm able to rationalise last week's uplifting 3-0 with today's abysmal 0-6 as two freak results. But in the last two weeks, if Ellis had lost a well regarded manager in those still mysterious circumstances, we'd sold our best player with no guarantee all the money will be spent on replacements (and we still don't know what if anything of the c£16m left will be available) and then we'd turned in a performance like that, we'd be marching down Trinity Road next weekend asking him in no uncertain terms what, the ****'s going on.
Totally agree.
Well said some people need to wake up and see whats going on around them
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Hindsight makes everything easier and all that but KMac should have realised that
(a) this was Newcastle's first home game back in the Premier League and somewhere where they haven't lost in nearly a year and a half
(b) Collocini, Enrique, Smith, Nolan and Carroll are all tough tacklers or big bruisers. So you put a physical side out to counter it. A midfield/flank of Petrov, Ireland, Albrighton, Downing and Young is piss weak. Not one of them can tackle and break-up play effectively.
Desperately naive.
And yet up until their second goal we were playing some very probing football against their high defensive line.
The first goal was a bit of a fluke but Barton should have been closed down. Friedel parried Nolan's header straight back to him for the second, he really should have been srong enough to turn it to the side. Dunne swung and missed a clearance for the third but our defence was too static and we had no one on the back post. We were outmuscled for the 4th, the fifth we lose the aerial ball from a corner again, and despite having four Villa shirts around the ball, Nolan is quickest to react. Warnock was awol for the sixth where a simple through ball had us breached all too quickly.
I think a lot of our lads were scared of Newcastle after the third. Young and Warnock were constantly tied in knots on the wings. Carew was so slow to react to the outlet ball all through the game. It was the type of game where Milner would have been more effective than Ireland but we really missed Gabby, Cuellar and Collins. especially. MON had the blueprint for away-day success, and whatever about his many shortcomings, KMac should have mirrored something to how we've played so successfully away from home over the past two years.
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lets not dwell on the negatives,
lets take the positives out of the performance and move on !
What were they??? We didn't lose 10?
The only positive we can take from today is it's bloody obvious where we need to strengthen.
The boardroom?
Yep, it is definitely their fault.
Might be, we'll see. Not definite though.
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
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They've not all become bad players inside a week but 9 goals shipped in 2 matches is a worry.
Eh?
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Given what has been said about the wages situation, I'm not sure that's something Lerner could have done.
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What a fcuking load of shit totally disgracefull performance.
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Given what has been said about the wages situation, I'm not sure that's something Lerner could have done.
A lot has been said by Mr Lerner/The General about the "wages situation" but the facts are that the club has done nothing to reduce the wage bill..they have not transfer listed any of the surplus players or loan them out to save on the wage bill
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
It would have made no difference offering him more money his head had been turned and that was it. Even if we did Man City would just have offered more.
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
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I was on a long journey and it made very painful listening in the car. Also the substitutions had a very familiar feel to them...?
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I think we need to forget about this and move on.
Hopefully this will be the kick up the arse we need into getting a new manager and a striker.
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
I blame Randy Lerner as we do not have a new manager
I blame Randy Lerner as Kevin Mac has just said on national TV that he will decide after the Everton game wether he will apply for the job. therefore no new manager will be appointed until after 01/09/10
Oh dear. the first real anti-randy post ive read. could this be the start of the tide turning? things need sorting out and quick, villa fans are known to be quite fickle! :-\
I dont necessarily think its about fans being fickle. We all care about our club and the silence from the board has been deafening. If there is a short list or any list to replace MON at all then say so. I think that Kev M's lack of direction or enthusiasm with regard to actually wanting the job or not speaks volumes. I did not think he was the man for the job before todays game and todays result in my mind has just confirmed it. I would not welcome a knee-jerk reaction from the board and an appoinment that ultimately will put the club back but we do need some direction and a statement from Mr Lerner. MON resigned almost 2 weeks ago which you would think is enough time for the board to have at least approached someone.
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Spurs we 3 down after half hour the other night, Harry changed his tactics and brought Huddlestone on because they were loosing the battle in midfield!
We should have brought NRC on at HT.
Please please let our next manager know a thing or two about tactics
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Given what has been said about the wages situation, I'm not sure that's something Lerner could have done.
A lot has been said by Mr Lerner/The General about the "wages situation" but the facts are that the club has done nothing to reduce the wage bill..they have not transfer listed any of the surplus players or loan them out to save on the wage bill
Or maybe there are no takers for those players?
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Never seen a game turn on a penalty miss so bad.
I honestly think if we'd scored that we'd have gone on to win.
That said from that moment on we were awful.
This is true. Had Carroll been in a Villa shirt we would've pasted them. But it was embarrassing. Especially the way we lay down for the sixth goal. None of the players seemed to care.
Get rid of the dross. Carew, Heskey, Sidwell, Reo-Coker, Beye, Davies. And don't allow any of the players that don't give a fuck about whether we win or lose anywhere near the first team. Play the youth. And get someone to explain the offside law to our Ashley.
Newcastle were rubbish but still could've had eight or nine past us.
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There isn't a single player from Newcastle's starting line up that I'd have in our team ahead of the players we have. So to get so throughly destroyed by them was shocking.
.. they had Routledge in the team .. says it all really
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I'm able to rationalise last week's uplifting 3-0 with today's abysmal 0-6 as two freak results. But in the last two weeks, if Ellis had lost a well regarded manager in those still mysterious circumstances, we'd sold our best player with no guarantee all the money will be spent on replacements (and we still don't know what if anything of the c£16m left will be available) and then we'd turned in a performance like that, we'd be marching down Trinity Road next weekend asking him in no uncertain terms what, the ****'s going on.
In faiirness, we only sold him three days ago.
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MON Signed a pile of shite that nobody else wants. In order to sign more we need to be rid of this dross.
MON “Randy, I need more cash, mi squad aint good enough, and it aint big enough”
Randy “you’ve had a sub’s bench full of cack that you signed and haven’t used, and nobody else wants to buy” “get stuffed”
MON “well if that’s your attitude you one eyed yank, I’m off”
Randy “Bye “
Today was 1 game, move on !
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Yes, maybe offering him the captaincy would have swung it.
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Brad is starting to concern me now, should have done better with Barton's goal. He also shouldn't have parried it straight back to Nolan and he didn't command the area at all.
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The most listless display I've seen from Villa in a long long time. It's not often in the last while that I could say that they didn't look like they had the stomach for the fight. Very very poor.
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Brad is starting to concern me now, should have done better with Barton's goal. He also shouldn't have parried it straight back to Nolan and he didn't command the area at all.
He always has for me. I have to say that he came with a great rep, but to be honest, apart from the odd occasion, I've seen nothing that backs it up.
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MON Signed a pile of shite that nobody else wants. In order to sign more we need to be rid of this dross.
MON “Randy, I need more cash, mi squad aint good enough, and it aint big enough”
Randy “you’ve had a sub’s bench full of cack that you signed and haven’t used, and nobody else wants to buy” “get stuffed”
MON “well if that’s your attitude you one eyed yank, I’m off”
Randy “Bye “
Today was 1 game, move on !
Sure and he may have said I've got you sixth 3 seasons running and won at Old Trafford Anfield and The emirates,so I've earned your continued support.
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Yes, maybe offering him the captaincy would have swung it.
Didn't Milner make it clear at the PFA Awards that he would be off. It's been known for so long, and if Villa had not put out their stall and City not played games, it would have been wrapped up prior to the World Cup.
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Yes, maybe offering him the captaincy would have swung it.
Didn't Milner make it clear at the PFA Awards that he would be off. It's been known for so long, and if Villa had not put out their stall and City not played games, it would have been wrapped up prior to the World Cup.
Of course it was clear.
I was being sarcastic about the captaincy. Randy didn't "sell" Milner, he didn't go out and tout him around.Milner told the club he wanted out, and off he went.
Just like Adebayor and Toure went there from Arsenal. Just like Balotelli went there from Inter, and just like Tevez went there from Manchester United. Yet, somehow, we're supposed to buck that trend of inevitability, and the fact we didn't is justificable cause to lay into the chairman.
We got a good deal for him. We also - something which the dimwits who go on about our sell to buy / can't have any more money policy overlook - got a player as part of the deal, which is hardly evidence of a chairman who is all about getting as much money in as he can.
It has been two weeks of weirdness since O'Neill walked out, but the most depressing bit has been so many people willing to turn against someone who has invested 180 million pounds in us in 4 years. Someone last week referred to him - in all seriousness - as "Young Doug", for fucks sake.
It beggars belief.
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I think the players who stepped onto the field and represented Aston Villa Football Club today were not fit to wear the shirt.
At the very least the club should refund the ticket cost (and travel) for the entire away contingent.
K Macdonald - Oh dear. Sir you have been found wanting at Premier league management. Against the Hammers the onus was on us at home to attack and we did with them offering little in return. An away game in the Premier league is a whole NEW BALL game. Especially against a vengeful side with a cauldron ground first home game of the season. The side you picked had calamity written all over it with a half fit Ireland and half crocked Petrov being overun in the middle as we have seen so many times under O'Neil.
You waited too, too long to make any sort of change which should have been done before the 3rd goal went in. As usual, half of Birmingham is screaming for some sort of tactical change as its CLEARLY not working the gameplan you set off with instead you send out the same twats in the same formation as the slapstick first half. What sort of transformation did you expect - a Liverpoolesqe Euro Final mode? Instead true to stubborn form - zilch.
Ive been watching football for 30 years and Im no Manager but even my 5 year old daughter is asking why we had huge gaps in midfield - are you watching a different game?
Playing Ireland was a gamble but a mistake that should have been rectified after 20 minutes. Albrighton was getting no change down his side - why didnt you put him out his misery? Carew had another lazy game, why wasnt HE hauled off sooner???!!
To lose 6-0 to a just newly promoted team is beyond the pale for a club of our stature. DISGRACE !!!!
Good luck against Rapid Vienna, I shall not be attending as my money will no longer pay for the players and management to take the piss out of my club.
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Nail on the head PW ... again
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It beggars belief.
[/quote]
Agreed
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Yes, maybe offering him the captaincy would have swung it.
Didn't Milner make it clear at the PFA Awards that he would be off. It's been known for so long, and if Villa had not put out their stall and City not played games, it would have been wrapped up prior to the World Cup.
Of course it was clear.
I was being sarcastic about the captaincy. Randy didn't "sell" Milner, he didn't go out and tout him around.Milner told the club he wanted out, and off he went.
Just like Adebayor and Toure went there from Arsenal. Just like Balotelli went there from Inter, and just like Tevez went there from Manchester United. Yet, somehow, we're supposed to buck that trend of inevitability, and the fact we didn't is justificable cause to lay into the chairman.
We got a good deal for him. We also - something which the dimwits who go on about our sell to buy / can't have any more money policy overlook - got a player as part of the deal, which is hardly evidence of a chairman who is all about getting as much money in as he can.
It has been two weeks of weirdness since O'Neill walked out, but the most depressing bit has been so many people willing to turn against someone who has invested 180 million pounds in us in 4 years. Someone last week referred to him - in all seriousness - as "Young Doug", for fucks sake.
It beggars belief.
clappy thing. well said paulie
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I'm still bewildered by Carews pen miss. It was truly shocking. By god did the team then put icing on the cake with that shambles.
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Yes, maybe offering him the captaincy would have swung it.
Didn't Milner make it clear at the PFA Awards that he would be off. It's been known for so long, and if Villa had not put out their stall and City not played games, it would have been wrapped up prior to the World Cup.
Of course it was clear.
I was being sarcastic about the captaincy. Randy didn't "sell" Milner, he didn't go out and tout him around.Milner told the club he wanted out, and off he went.
Just like Adebayor and Toure went there from Arsenal. Just like Balotelli went there from Inter, and just like Tevez went there from Manchester United. Yet, somehow, we're supposed to buck that trend of inevitability, and the fact we didn't is justificable cause to lay into the chairman.
We got a good deal for him. We also - something which the dimwits who go on about our sell to buy / can't have any more money policy overlook - got a player as part of the deal, which is hardly evidence of a chairman who is all about getting as much money in as he can.
It has been two weeks of weirdness since O'Neill walked out, but the most depressing bit has been so many people willing to turn against someone who has invested 180 million pounds in us in 4 years. Someone last week referred to him - in all seriousness - as "Young Doug", for fucks sake.
It beggars belief.
I think you will find that the inclusion of Ireland was a "sweetener" for the fans as if he had kept back the whole £26m from the Milner deal he would have had the fans on his back
OK Paulie why have we not heard off Randy/The General for almost 2 weeks since MON left
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
I'm beginning to worry about Downing. I see nothing that warrants the kind of money that we paid for him. I thought he was quite good at Boro', so what's happened?
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I blame Randy Lerner as he sold James Milner and decided he wanted Ireland to replace him
Milner wanted to go. Lerner did everything he could to keep him.
You know that for a fact do you ?? did he offer him £100,000.00 a week, did he offer him the captaincy
Yes, maybe offering him the captaincy would have swung it.
Didn't Milner make it clear at the PFA Awards that he would be off. It's been known for so long, and if Villa had not put out their stall and City not played games, it would have been wrapped up prior to the World Cup.
Of course it was clear.
I was being sarcastic about the captaincy. Randy didn't "sell" Milner, he didn't go out and tout him around.Milner told the club he wanted out, and off he went.
Just like Adebayor and Toure went there from Arsenal. Just like Balotelli went there from Inter, and just like Tevez went there from Manchester United. Yet, somehow, we're supposed to buck that trend of inevitability, and the fact we didn't is justificable cause to lay into the chairman.
We got a good deal for him. We also - something which the dimwits who go on about our sell to buy / can't have any more money policy overlook - got a player as part of the deal, which is hardly evidence of a chairman who is all about getting as much money in as he can.
It has been two weeks of weirdness since O'Neill walked out, but the most depressing bit has been so many people willing to turn against someone who has invested 180 million pounds in us in 4 years. Someone last week referred to him - in all seriousness - as "Young Doug", for fucks sake.
It beggars belief.
I think you will find that the inclusion of Ireland was a "sweetener" for the fans as if he had kept back the whole £26m from the Milner deal he would have had the fans on his back
OK Paulie why have we not heard off Randy/The General for almost 2 weeks since MON left
We have.. do you read this thread?
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I think you will find that the inclusion of Ireland was a "sweetener" for the fans as if he had kept back the whole £26m from the Milner deal he would have had the fans on his back
Why will I find that? And where?
OK Paulie why have we not heard off Randy/The General for almost 2 weeks since MON left
We have heard from the General. Check his thread.
Now, you tell me, in what way is it Lerner's fault for selling James Milner?
As for hearing from Lerner, you might want to look at his comments earlier in the week about the Man City / Milner situation.
I'd have thought that someone who had invested that much money in the club, who had done so much to build up our trust in us over four years might have a bit more credit in the goodwill bank - accusing him of going out and selling players like he's some kind of profiteering, self interested shyster suggests otherwise.
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
I'm beginning to worry about Downing. I see nothing that warrants the kind of money that we paid for him. I thought he was quite good at Boro', so what's happened?
Nothing, he's always been Sh1T !!
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
Problem is Downing is more composed on the ball and can keep possession, whereas Albrighton is useless against a decent fullback (just as MON basically said after the befica game).
I'd start with Downing, but for me NRC would be first name on the team sheet. He is our only player who can break up play!
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
I'm beginning to worry about Downing. I see nothing that warrants the kind of money that we paid for him. I thought he was quite good at Boro', so what's happened?
Well, were told that he was shit last year because he did not have a pre-season and that he was recovering from an horrific injury.
Many said that we will see a big improvement this season. He still looks like a lightweight wuss to me.
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Just got back from the game. I am trying to persuade myself that everything Newcastle tried came off and everything we tried turned to ashes but I know it is worse than that. Had we played until midnight we would not have scored.
The scary thing is that Newcastle are a very poor side. The only difference between them and us was that they had a centre-forward worthy of the name. Had Carroll been in a Villa shirt we probably would have won.
Big Brad: 4. I was surprised by the first goal. Somebody just behind me said that it went through his hands. After that I was surprised when he got his hands to anything.
Young L: 5 Averagely awful.
Dunne: 5 Ditto.
Clark: 6 Tried.
Warnock: 4 Bypassed too easily.
Albrighton: 7 Seemed to be a little overawed and didn't attack the fullback much. Shouldn't have been taken off.
Petrov: 7 Crocked early on (?). But some of his through ball were excellent.
Ireland: 6 Looked a bit lost.
Downing;: 4 Seemed to be playing deeper and inside.
Young A: 4 Someone should explain the offside law to him.
Carew: 2 Didn't seem bothered.
Heskey: 3 His confidence must be shot and it shows.
Reo-Coker: 4 Twice got caught in possession. Doesn't anyone speak to him?
Beye: 4 Did a header.
I only watched the game online, but I can't agree with some of those ratings.
Albrighton was completely out of his depth today, and I think Ashley (who's goal was miles onside, btw) was one of our best players, but no decisions went his way.
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I think Downings one of the worst excuses for a football player I have ever seen in a Villa shirt. The way he shirks out of challenges disgusts me.
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I think you will find that the inclusion of Ireland was a "sweetener" for the fans as if he had kept back the whole £26m from the Milner deal he would have had the fans on his back
Why will I find that? And where?
OK Paulie why have we not heard off Randy/The General for almost 2 weeks since MON left
We have heard from the General. Check his thread.
Now, you tell me, in what way is it Lerner's fault for selling James Milner?
Not that im being pedantic but I said " I think" that....... so obviously you will not find that written down
Just checked the General's thread, last post was a week ago (i think) and he said that the board would not be rushed into making a decision, well they are certainly not rushing are the considering they havnt drawn up a shortlist, interviewed anyone
As for Milner yes I think Randy did sell him as it was the quickest way to try and balance the books as non of the fringe players had been sold
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I’ve seen some fucking shit over the years, but that was the fucking biggest by far. I never walk out early, but I left after the 4th went in and to be honest, I don’t think I’m going to bother going back again. Fuck it, its a waste of fucking money and effort.
Why the fuck should a gang of millionaires embarrass me and make me feel ashamed? Just fuck off Villa you ******, fuck off.
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What a come-down after I was expecting a routine 0-2 away win.
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
Problem is Downing is more composed on the ball and can keep possession, whereas Albrighton is useless against a decent fullback (just as MON basically said after the befica game).
I'd start with Downing, but for me NRC would be first name on the team sheet. He is our only player who can break up play!
I'd agree Gibbo. NRC has to play: not only is he our only midfielder who can break up play, he adds a bit of vigour to an otherwise pedestrian midfield. I'd have him and Stan behind Ireland in a 4-5-1 with Gabby up top when he's fit.
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What a come-down after I was expecting a routine 0-2 away win.
It would've been had Carew scored the penalty.
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Just got back from the game. I am trying to persuade myself that everything Newcastle tried came off and everything we tried turned to ashes but I know it is worse than that. Had we played until midnight we would not have scored.
The scary thing is that Newcastle are a very poor side. The only difference between them and us was that they had a centre-forward worthy of the name. Had Carroll been in a Villa shirt we probably would have won.
Big Brad: 4. I was surprised by the first goal. Somebody just behind me said that it went through his hands. After that I was surprised when he got his hands to anything.
Young L: 5 Averagely awful.
Dunne: 5 Ditto.
Clark: 6 Tried.
Warnock: 4 Bypassed too easily.
Albrighton: 7 Seemed to be a little overawed and didn't attack the fullback much. Shouldn't have been taken off.
Petrov: 7 Crocked early on (?). But some of his through ball were excellent.
Ireland: 6 Looked a bit lost.
Downing;: 4 Seemed to be playing deeper and inside.
Young A: 4 Someone should explain the offside law to him.
Carew: 2 Didn't seem bothered.
Heskey: 3 His confidence must be shot and it shows.
Reo-Coker: 4 Twice got caught in possession. Doesn't anyone speak to him?
Beye: 4 Did a header.
I only watched the game online, but I can't agree with some of those ratings.
Albrighton was completely out of his depth today, and I think Ashley (who's goal was miles onside, btw) was one of our best players, but no decisions went his way.
Agreed Ash was our best player, we needed someone who could break up play, same old same old, NRC on bench when should be on pitch and bringing that donkey on is a complete joke!
We need our own Harry Redknap, someone who has abit of common sence and can see things as they happen.
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'kin hell. That's all.
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
Problem is Downing is more composed on the ball and can keep possession, whereas Albrighton is useless against a decent fullback (just as MON basically said after the befica game).
I'd start with Downing, but for me NRC would be first name on the team sheet. He is our only player who can break up play!
I'd agree Gibbo. NRC has to play: not only is he our only midfielder who can break up play, he adds a bit of vigour to an otherwise pedestrian midfield. I'd have him and Stan behind Ireland in a 4-5-1 with Gabby up top when he's fit.
What is it with people and Petrov. He's shit. Even NRC can stand there a pass sideways and backwards if he wanted to, but he doesn't choose to do that because it gets the team nowhere. Petrov is too slow, can't tackle and always passess sideways or backwards. Get rid.
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There isn't a single player from Newcastle's starting line up that I'd have in our team ahead of the players we have. So to get so throughly destroyed by them was shocking.
Agreed.
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
Problem is Downing is more composed on the ball and can keep possession, whereas Albrighton is useless against a decent fullback (just as MON basically said after the befica game).
I'd start with Downing, but for me NRC would be first name on the team sheet. He is our only player who can break up play!
To be fair to Albrighton, he was up against one of the best young left backs in Europe, Coentrão.
Whether we drop Albrighton or Downing, both have got to grow a pair of balls, get stuck in and give some support to the full backs.
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I’ve seen some fucking shit over the years, but that was the fucking biggest by far. I never walk out early, but I left after the 4th went in and to be honest, I don’t think I’m going to bother going back again. Fuck it, its a waste of fucking money and effort.
Why the fuck should a gang of millionaires embarrass me and make me feel ashamed? Just fuck off Villa you c***s, fuck off.
Made me smile Ads, not that you really want to know that just now. Top rant.
I only ever walked out twice, both during the season we went down in the 80s - Brighton and Man City, both at VP and both at half time
It was the sheer pain of seeing what we had come to after being European Champions 3 or 4 years previously
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
Problem is Downing is more composed on the ball and can keep possession, whereas Albrighton is useless against a decent fullback (just as MON basically said after the befica game).
I'd start with Downing, but for me NRC would be first name on the team sheet. He is our only player who can break up play!
To be fair to Albrighton, he was up against one of the best young left backs in Europe, Coentrão.
Whether we drop Albrighton or Downing, both have got to grow a pair of balls, get stuck in and give some support to the full backs.
speaking of which I wouldn't mind seeing Ashley Young get the captaincy of Villa down the road. Say what you want about him, but he does throw himself about in games. You can rarely ever accuse him of not putting in the effort, even if he sometimes falls short on end product.
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MON out.
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fuck me 17 pages already!
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fuck me 17 pages already!
Eh? I'm only on page 5.
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NRC has to come in alongside Petrov at the expense of either Downing or Albrighton. Petrov can't do all the donkeywork by himself.
The thing is, we've known that for a long time now. He's exposed even more now with Milner gone.
Absolutley. For me it would be Downing as he offers little defensive cover and it's no surprise our full backs look poor. Add to that he rarely makes a tackle, not that Albrighton was much better today, both were passengers in a toothless midfield.
Problem is Downing is more composed on the ball and can keep possession, whereas Albrighton is useless against a decent fullback (just as MON basically said after the befica game).
I'd start with Downing, but for me NRC would be first name on the team sheet. He is our only player who can break up play!
To be fair to Albrighton, he was up against one of the best young left backs in Europe, Coentrão.
Whether we drop Albrighton or Downing, both have got to grow a pair of balls, get stuck in and give some support to the full backs.
speaking of which I wouldn't mind seeing Ashley Young get the captaincy of Villa down the road. Say what you want about him, but he does throw himself about in games. You can rarely ever accuse him of not putting in the effort, even if he sometimes falls short on end product.
I know what you mean TV but I don't think it's a job for Ashley. Today we really needed some leadership out on the pitch and there was none there. The players seemed to be waiting for somebody else to take the initiative. Kevin MacDonald was spot on this week when he described how Milner was a "power" player, complared to Ireland who was more "flair". Ireland, Downing and Albrighton could be described as flair players but today for large parts of the game they were all passengers. We really missed Milner today and will continue to until we can find players that are willing to battle hard as well as show their attacking talents.
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MON out.
Too right !
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I know what you mean TV but I don't think it's a job for Ashley. Today we really needed some leadership out on the pitch and there was none there. The players seemed to be waiting for somebody else to take the initiative. Kevin MacDonald was spot on this week when he described how Milner was a "power" player, complared to Ireland who was more "flair". Ireland, Downing and Albrighton could be described as flair players but today for large parts of the game they were all passengers. We really missed Milner today and will continue to until we can find players that are willing to battle hard as well as show their attacking talents.
Downing: flair?
Got to lol at that.
(I know you said "coulde be described as")
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Still reeling from it and don;t quite know how it happened when the first 15 minutes looked quite promising. After missing the penalty we just seemed to give up.
Newcastle are a big strong physical side and were totally up for it. I think too many of our midfielders and defenders just got bullied out of it, especially the youngsters like Albrighton and Clark, but also Petrov, Downing, Ireland, and the full backs. Might have been different with Collins or Cuellar at CB alongside Dunne, and maybe NRC in from the start.
Cant understand anyone blaming L Young, he was no worse than a few other senior players like Dunne, Petrov or Warnock.
Blaming O'Neill is out of order too. I didn't like him or his football , but his away record was very very good, Chelsea aside, and I doubt we would have capitulated like that to such an ordinary team under him. This was down to KMac's selection and tactics and the players not being up for it enough.
Edit:Forgot to say I've thought Friedel has been a bit past it for a while now and he looked it again today, first goal especially was a straightfoward save.
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Well, quite a few posters wanted excitement, and I suppose we have seen 9 goals in 2 league games.
I am inclined to agree with Ads comment on The General's thread:
Fuck off and die football. It was better when we were kicking the shit out of each other in crumbling shit holes- at least it cost us near enough fuck all then.
and also with Quintus Lentulus Batiatus, who said, after a similar humiliation:
One again the gods part cheeks to ram cock in fucking ass.
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Still reeling from it and don;t quite know how it happened when the first 15 minutes looked quite promising. After missing the penalty we just seemed to give up.
Newcastle are a big strong physical side and were totally up for it. I think too many of our midfielders and defenders just got bullied out of it, especially the youngsters like Albrighton and Clark, but also Petrov, Downing, Ireland, and the full backs. Might have been different with Collins or Cuellar at CB alongside Dunne, and maybe NRC in from the start.
Cant understand anyone blaming L Young, he was no worse than a few other senior players like Dunne, Petrov or Warnock.
Blaming O'Neill is out of order too. I didn't like him or his football , but his away record was very very good, Chelsea aside, and I doubt we would have capitulated like that to such an ordinary team under him. This was down to KMac's selection and tactics and the players not being up for it enough.
Edit:Forgot to say I've thought Friedel has been a bit past it for a while now and he looked it again today, first goal especially was a straightfoward save.
Agree with all of that.
Regarding the first goal, Brad was crouching down when Barton struck the ball. Had he been standing up straight, he would have got a hand to it. It was a cracking, powerful shot but he probably should have saved it.
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It just occurred to me we lost 6-0 to a team containing Wayne Routledge, Alan Smith, and Joey Barton. Ye Gods.
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Delighted mon has fucked off - but now randy needs to show ambition and bring in a quality manager and give him the milner money to spend.
Kmac is a good coach but was exposed today as a coach not a manager.
An experienced manager who knows English football- Sven or jol please,and FAST!
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To a man abysmal.
I thought MON was still in charge when he bought Heskey (ps why boo Heskey, they should have been cheering his every move, no fucking chance of us getting back into it with him on) on....... and played him on the fucking wing!!!
I see some calls for Reo-Coker to be introduced...... although he may break up the game he gets caught in possession or just loses it, thus making his sum contribution.... nil! And don't start me on the namby pamby mincing antics of Downing. Warnock's inability to pass to one of his own players. The fact the Freidel is stuck to his line more than Spinksy and has the mobility of a tortoise. Dunne's one balls up per match minimum. Ashley Youngs perpetual whining at officials. Carew's bone idle laziness. Petrov's legs stop working when someone goes past him, which lets face it doesn't take a gazelle! At least Ireland has got rid of that bloody stupid beard.
All the things that we know are shit were there for all to see time and time again today.
Oh well from the highs of West Ham to the lows of a drubbing. Who knows what we will get next week.
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Now, you tell me, in what way is it Lerner's fault for selling James Milner?
As for hearing from Lerner, you might want to look at his comments earlier in the week about the Man City / Milner situation.
I'd have thought that someone who had invested that much money in the club, who had done so much to build up our trust in us over four years might have a bit more credit in the goodwill bank - accusing him of going out and selling players like he's some kind of profiteering, self interested shyster suggests otherwise.
Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
As for his words last week they were empty. Where was the fighting talk in May when City first leaked their interest through the press?
The truth is that City have made mugs of Aston Villa all summer because Randy was not willing to let MON give City a deadline sometime in July to meet our valuation. I imagine that's because the principles at stake were not more important than the possibility of jeopardizing the deal.
Randy has earned credit in the goodwill bank, but things are now going badly wrong and his brief statement following MON's departure was wholly inadaquate in explaining what the hell is going on and certainly Doug would never have been allowed to get away with that.
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You can't blame Learner for selling Milner, he didn't want to be here and I don't want to force anyone to wear the shirt.
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"Oh well from the highs of West Ham to the lows of a drubbing. Who knows what we will get next week."
But isn't that one of the joys of supporting the Villa life is never predictable or boring !!!
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well, that was shit wasn't it!
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Now, you tell me, in what way is it Lerner's fault for selling James Milner?
As for hearing from Lerner, you might want to look at his comments earlier in the week about the Man City / Milner situation.
I'd have thought that someone who had invested that much money in the club, who had done so much to build up our trust in us over four years might have a bit more credit in the goodwill bank - accusing him of going out and selling players like he's some kind of profiteering, self interested shyster suggests otherwise.
Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
As for his words last week they were empty. Where was the fighting talk in May when City first leaked their interest through the press?
The truth is that City have made mugs of Aston Villa all summer because Randy was not willing to let MON give City a deadline sometime in July to meet our valuation. I imagine that's because the principles at stake were not more important than the possibility of jeopardizing the deal.
Randy has earned credit in the goodwill bank, but things are now going badly wrong and his brief statement following MON's departure was wholly inadaquate in explaining what the hell is going on and certainly Doug would never have been allowed to get away with that.
Rubbish. So you would have rather our owner standing firm, creating a difficult situation at the club with the player, turning down a ridiculous amount of money the player, and in turn getting a top player in return? Nobody was ever going to offer what Man City were offering for Milner because as good as he is he isn't worth what Man City paid for him. Additionally, Milner's absence had nothing to do with today. Were the rest of the "professionals" (and I'm giving Ireland a pass) that gutted with Milner being sold that they threw in the towel today? No, they just played very badly. They all knew he was going so it would have made little difference. Of all the people that's not to blame in the Milner transfer it is Randy Lerner. In fact, I'd have wanted to know why he didn't accept such an outrageous bid had we turned it down.
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Just watched the first half again and there was not much in it. Newcastle tried to bully us all over the pitch but no way in the world did they deserve a three-nil lead. Everything seemed to go their way, Carew's penalty, all three goals, even when Downing tried to knock the ball out it hit the corner flag and landed at the feet of one of their players.
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I have no problem with selling Milner, he wanted to go. Once a player wants to leave you just have to get the best deal for the club and we got a lot of money and Ireland who will be quality. Randy still has plenty of credit in the bank for me.
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Carew......I really think he's 'gone'.
This came through to me as well. He was critisised for missing chances against West Ham but I thought he'd be OK, just an off day, on another day he'd get a hatful etc.
But today, particularly in the second half there was a certain tiredness about him, like he'd really given up.
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it was painful watching how slow he looked when running to chase down a ball.
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It just occurred to me we lost 6-0 to a team containing Wayne Routledge, Alan Smith, and Joey Barton. Ye Gods.
Yep, the same team that got relegated essentially. What a steaming pile of horse shit.
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the daft thing is at half time, i was still thinking that the Newcastle players were not very good, and if we got a goal back early into the second half we might still make a game of it.
how wrong can you get it,
that 2nd half was probably the worst performance i've ever seen from a Villla side,
it was a new benchmark that was set for the future, a bit like Englands Algeria game, was to England fans
in the years to come, someone will say Villa played crap today, and someone else will say ' ah yes, but was it as bad as Newcastle 2010'
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I think too many are doing Newcastle a diservice. They're not half as bad as most are making out. I certainly don't think they'll be fighting relegation.
One thing that's just struck me watching the game again is the lack of communication on the pitch. Maybe there was certain method in MON's madness when he stood throughout the whole game screaming and shouting, it got the players communicating with each other. There was certainly no urgency in their play, it was more like a pre-season friendly, second half they were just going through the motions.
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Just watched the first half again and there was not much in it. Newcastle tried to bully us all over the pitch but no way in the world did they deserve a three-nil lead. Everything seemed to go their way, Carew's penalty, all three goals, even when Downing tried to knock the ball out it hit the corner flag and landed at the feet of one of their players.
Exactly what I think. We actually had the better of the play in the first half but found ourselves 3-0 down somehow. That situation will only happen once every two or three years, and it happened today. If Carew scores the penalty we win today, because they're not the best side and we'd have been more able to sit back and counter at pace. As it was, some ridiculous mistakes and English refereeing (mainly ridiculous mistakes, but the reffing was frustrating) and we're three down. That was game over really, the rest, painful as it was, was just academic. In boxing terms, it was TKO in the 5th or 6th.
Also completely agree about the lack of communication, it really was disturbing to see sometimes.
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speaking of which I wouldn't mind seeing Ashley Young get the captaincy of Villa down the road. Say what you want about him, but he does throw himself about in games. You can rarely ever accuse him of not putting in the effort, even if he sometimes falls short on end product.
A major no no for me. I think he's way to selfish for the role. Dunne should be captain for me.
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We may have started well, but with how we defended corners and failed to close people down then we'd have conceded goals whatever...
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everything that could go wrong went wrong, Carew misses a pen then just about every player has a nightmare, this would sugest that a manager is needed quickly but there should be some serious questions asked about the attitude of many players.
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Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
I can't see how you stop a deal that was going through since before May. Its harder than stopping a turncoat quitting on you just before the season starts. It was a done deal what RL did do was the best deal for the club financially and it could also involve the one player transferred in this summer.
So I'm confident to say I disagree completely with your without question statement.
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everything that could go wrong went wrong, Carew misses a pen then just about every player has a nightmare, this would sugest that a manager is needed quickly but there should be some serious questions asked about the attitude of many players.
It was the listlessness that really shocked me today. Whatever could be said for, say, the 7-1 last season, you couldn't accuse them of a lack of effort. Today, though, you could.
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Can anyone else who says something along the lines of "if Doug had done that he would would have been..." be banned please?
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Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
I can't see how you stop a deal that was going through since before May. Its harder than stopping a turncoat quitting on you just before the season starts. It was a done deal what RL did do was the best deal for the club financially and it could also involve the one player transferred in this summer.
So I'm confident to say I disagree completely with your without question statement.
Agree entirely. The deal was going through, with Ireland and everything, before MON resigned. The only option was to keep negotiating along those terms.
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everything that could go wrong went wrong, Carew misses a pen then just about every player has a nightmare, this would sugest that a manager is needed quickly but there should be some serious questions asked about the attitude of many players.
The right manager needs to be appointed however long it takes, yes of course today was painful but we shouldn't go gung ho and give anyone the job. Lerner needs to hold his nerve and get this right.
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No fight, battle or cohesion today. Player looked cluless and fed up. Will be needing a stronger team than last game v Rapid this Thursday to get past them...i thought that it would be similar to the one we sent out today needed !
No chance to rest anyone in next 2 games even if they are both within 3 days
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everything that could go wrong went wrong, Carew misses a pen then just about every player has a nightmare, this would sugest that a manager is needed quickly but there should be some serious questions asked about the attitude of many players.
Remember last week after the West Ham game, a few of the players said how MacDonald wanted them to keep the ball more and "hurt" teams. Today we got "hurt". Having watched the game twice now, yes everything went wrong for us but credit to Newcastle, they played as a team and fought for every ball. We weren't half as bad as some are making out. The one thing that really sticks out is we were playing without a striker.
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Apologies if I missed it, but does anyone know how long Gabby is out?
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I've only just calmed down enough to post something semi-literate, so bear that in mid when I say :
That is the most listless pile of shit I've ever seen from the Villa and I include Doncaster in that - and that I live in Newcastle makes it so much worse against a SHIT Newcastle team. They are worse that when we beat them 1-0 when they went down. We need a new manager immediately and signings along with that - this wishy washy everythings ok in the garden stance is crap of the highest order. If Lerner bollocks this next appointment up then he can forget the 4 times a season I travel to Brum and all the north east fixtures - O Neill had to go and there's every chance to turn it round but my god my bloods boiling - I'm normally very laid back about these things but this has just sent me into mental mode. Maybe sleeping on it will put it into perspective. Fucking 6 shipped to fucking Newcastle - Chelsea to Wigan ok, Newcastle to Villa? Meh.
I realise I'm not going to affect anything financially but the goodwill will disappear. Broken promises.
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everything that could go wrong went wrong, Carew misses a pen then just about every player has a nightmare, this would sugest that a manager is needed quickly but there should be some serious questions asked about the attitude of many players.
It was the listlessness that really shocked me today. Whatever could be said for, say, the 7-1 last season, you couldn't accuse them of a lack of effort. Today, though, you could.
i only saw highlights and watched on a poor stream as i am in the US, i was at chelsea though and it was more clulessness than effort, either way it hurts
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everything that could go wrong went wrong, Carew misses a pen then just about every player has a nightmare, this would sugest that a manager is needed quickly but there should be some serious questions asked about the attitude of many players.
The right manager needs to be appointed however long it takes, yes of course today was painful but we shouldn't go gung ho and give anyone the job. Lerner needs to hold his nerve and get this right.
lets face it MON dropped us in it and whilst i was hopeing that we could take our time appointing his replacement, a 6-0 thrashing sugests that we need to do something pretty soon, i am scared that we may have to act in haste and repent at leisure
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Stating the bleeding obvious, after today's shambles, what Randy does next apropos the manager situation will be the most important decision he's had to make.
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wonder if MON is having a little chuckle
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We miss cueller soo bad
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They looked like a team with no drection or instructions, as soon as we went 1 down it was a mess. Carew was woeful to pick one of many. We need a manager in quick before this season is over before it's begun....and before the window closes. Will it restrict who we can get if he has to play MONs team until Jan?
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It has been two weeks of weirdness since O'Neill walked out, but the most depressing bit has been so many people willing to turn against someone who has invested 180 million pounds in us in 4 years. Someone last week referred to him - in all seriousness - as "Young Doug", for fucks sake.
It beggars belief.
I said when Randy took over that it would take years of very heavy losses to get us from where we were to the Champions League, and I meant more than 4 years and £180m. I believed he knew that too and was prepared to sustain those losses. I suppose I'm just a bit pissed off because it looks like I was wrong about Randy and we've just lost 6-0. Still, at least we're all unhappy we've lost which makes a change from last season when the 'MON is the anti-Christ' mob were on here crowing after our rare defeats.
As for the game, I think people are right in saying that we would have won had Carew scored. But what happened afterwards was very worrying. As you say though Paulie, at least it will give the board the necessary kick up the arse.
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Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
I can't see how you stop a deal that was going through since before May. Its harder than stopping a turncoat quitting on you just before the season starts. It was a done deal what RL did do was the best deal for the club financially and it could also involve the one player transferred in this summer.
So I'm confident to say I disagree completely with your without question statement.
Fairly simple. You tell Milner that as we haven't got a manager we are not in a position to buy or sell players until the new guy is appointed. If that means having to wait until January to get his move then tough.
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Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
I can't see how you stop a deal that was going through since before May. Its harder than stopping a turncoat quitting on you just before the season starts. It was a done deal what RL did do was the best deal for the club financially and it could also involve the one player transferred in this summer.
So I'm confident to say I disagree completely with your without question statement.
Agree entirely. The deal was going through, with Ireland and everything, before MON resigned. The only option was to keep negotiating along those terms.
Of course it was going through.
To suggest that Milner was staying until MON left, then Randy pushed it through might be convenient for finger pointing terms, but is naive in the extreme.
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Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
I can't see how you stop a deal that was going through since before May. Its harder than stopping a turncoat quitting on you just before the season starts. It was a done deal what RL did do was the best deal for the club financially and it could also involve the one player transferred in this summer.
So I'm confident to say I disagree completely with your without question statement.
Fairly simple. You tell Milner that as we haven't got a manager we are not in a position to buy or sell players until the new guy is appointed. If that means having to wait until January to get his move then tough.
So you have a disgruntled player in the squad, when you can get £18 million and a decent player in exchange... he has to go!
Players hold the power, just ask Reo who is purposely winding down his contract so he can get a free transfer (and big signing-on fee at his next club) at the end of the season... is that loyality to the club!
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Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
I can't see how you stop a deal that was going through since before May. Its harder than stopping a turncoat quitting on you just before the season starts. It was a done deal what RL did do was the best deal for the club financially and it could also involve the one player transferred in this summer.
So I'm confident to say I disagree completely with your without question statement.
Fairly simple. You tell Milner that as we haven't got a manager we are not in a position to buy or sell players until the new guy is appointed. If that means having to wait until January to get his move then tough.
All well and good but would you really take a hit to the tune of £10m if you delayed the transfer till January?
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It has been two weeks of weirdness since O'Neill walked out, but the most depressing bit has been so many people willing to turn against someone who has invested 180 million pounds in us in 4 years. Someone last week referred to him - in all seriousness - as "Young Doug", for fucks sake.
It beggars belief.
I said when Randy took over that it would take years of very heavy losses to get us from where we were to the Champions League, and I meant more than 4 years and £180m. I believed he knew that too and was prepared to sustain those losses. I suppose I'm just a bit pissed off because it looks like I was wrong about Randy and we've just lost 6-0. Still, at least we're all unhappy we've lost which makes a change from last season when the 'MON is the anti-Christ' mob were on here crowing after our rare defeats.
As for the game, I think people are right in saying that we would have won had Carew scored. But what happened afterwards was very worrying. As you say though Paulie, at least it will give the board the necessary kick up the arse.
It isn't just about endlessly investing money from day 1 to day x, though. Sometimes along a period of investment, you have to slow down a little, pace the finances, and work on the financial situation as a whole.
There's not a manager (bar Mancini) in the top flight who doesn't have to do that at times - even Ferguson and Wenger do. Why, then, should MON be any different?
Why automatically assume that being asked to do something about the wage bill means an end to investment?
I have to say, though, I think your point about the anti MON mob being not unhappy when we lost is a bit daft, and pretty insulting to those you're referring to.
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Without question Lerner is entirely responsible for the sale of Milner, because since the club is managerless it's clearly his decision and his decision alone.
I can't see how you stop a deal that was going through since before May. Its harder than stopping a turncoat quitting on you just before the season starts. It was a done deal what RL did do was the best deal for the club financially and it could also involve the one player transferred in this summer.
So I'm confident to say I disagree completely with your without question statement.
Fairly simple. You tell Milner that as we haven't got a manager we are not in a position to buy or sell players until the new guy is appointed. If that means having to wait until January to get his move then tough.
All well and good but would you really take a hit to the tune of £10m if you delayed the transfer till January?
I certainly wouldn't. Take the money now and run. We'll never know, but there's always the risk of injury.
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After all the plaudits for last week's performance I was looking forward to a more tactically intelligent performance than we've witnessed in recent years.
Instead we got precisely the same shape as we had with MON. Ashley basically just played the Gabby role.
It makes you realise just how good our defence was last season. The midfield left them open time and again, but they were able to defend one against one. Collins and Cuellar will make a difference.
Petrov and Ireland really doesn't look like a viable partnership. Carew looks awful and Gabby's return can't come fast enough.
I really don't want to sound negative, but I just have a nagging doubt that Albrighton is going to get found out at this level. Really hope not, but maybe it's too many hyped kids who don't go onto big things.
All in all, let's just try and win the next couple of games, learn from this in terms of team-shape, and please please please get in a physically dominant centre midfielder.
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Speaking of Agbonlahor... when our we expecting his return to the team? We need his effort and running around like headless chicken determination back. Carew looked like he'd rather be in the Rocket Club after his shameful penalty.
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It has been two weeks of weirdness since O'Neill walked out, but the most depressing bit has been so many people willing to turn against someone who has invested 180 million pounds in us in 4 years. Someone last week referred to him - in all seriousness - as "Young Doug", for fucks sake.
It beggars belief.
I said when Randy took over that it would take years of very heavy losses to get us from where we were to the Champions League, and I meant more than 4 years and £180m. I believed he knew that too and was prepared to sustain those losses. I suppose I'm just a bit pissed off because it looks like I was wrong about Randy and we've just lost 6-0. Still, at least we're all unhappy we've lost which makes a change from last season when the 'MON is the anti-Christ' mob were on here crowing after our rare defeats.
As for the game, I think people are right in saying that we would have won had Carew scored. But what happened afterwards was very worrying. As you say though Paulie, at least it will give the board the necessary kick up the arse.
It isn't just about endlessly investing money from day 1 to day x, though. Sometimes along a period of investment, you have to slow down a little, pace the finances, and work on the financial situation as a whole.
There's not a manager (bar Mancini) in the top flight who doesn't have to do that at times - even Ferguson and Wenger do. Why, then, should MON be any different?
Why automatically assume that being asked to do something about the wage bill means an end to investment?
I have to say, though, I think your point about the anti MON mob being not unhappy when we lost is a bit daft, and pretty insulting to those you're referring to.
Agree with your point about other managers doing it, which is why I was disappointed with MON for not taking on the challenge. If he was sulking over it then probably best he left. Still thought Randy would be pleased with breaking even on transfer fees this summer, and pleased with the progress of the club despite the wage bill.
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Fat twat Dunne, put on about a stone over the summer. Pathetic.
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Fat twat Dunne, put on about a stone over the summer. Pathetic.
I'm not going to write him off on the basis of this game, but last weekend I thought it was pretty obvious to anyone in the ground that he'd put a shed load of weight on.
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Guzan
Beye - Cuellar - Collins - Young
Ashley - Petrov - NRC - Downing
Ireland
Gabby
Would be my team for Everton. Hopefully they're all fit.
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Regardless of him picking the ball out of the net six times today, there's no way I'd stick Guzan in. He's not done enough to suggest he's up to it.
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Having had a lovely weekend camping in the pouring rain I came in to check the score at about 6pm and I'm still convinced that it's some sort of elaborate hoax that someone is playing.
I'm not going near Match Of The Day.
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Fat twat Dunne, put on about a stone over the summer. Pathetic.
I'm not going to write him off on the basis of this game, but last weekend I thought it was pretty obvious to anyone in the ground that he'd put a shed load of weight on.
He should know better, he's had problems with it before at Everton and Citeh hasn't he?
Shocking stuff. I know circumstances dicate he's playing but he shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI for a Premier League team in that condition.
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Dear god almighty Stephen Warnock has just about the worst positioning sense in any full back I've seen in a long time. He makes Glen Johnson look like Maldini.
Fucking abysmal. He's been on the slide for a long time.
Luke Young has to play left back next game.
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Having had a lovely weekend camping in the pouring rain I came in to check the score at about 6pm and I'm still convinced that it's some sort of elaborate hoax that someone is playing.
I'm not going near Match Of The Day.
6pm was maybe not the best time.
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Haven't seen the game as was out all day. Turned the radio off after 3-0. Don't want to see it either.
Will be interesting to see how we bounce back from this.
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Its going tbe tough for Kmac now.The smart odds were always on a tempoarary tenure, what authority does he have with the squad to deal with a bizarre episode of collective complacency?
Petrov has been a passenger in the team for a long time, well ever since he decided to play for his last contract really, and his non-contribution, disguised last week by a strong effort from those around him, can no longer be tolerated.If a permanent manager was in place surely Carew and Heskey would have been moved on?
With this window likely to close before any managerial transfer activity is possible it is inevitable that we are going to lose ground against the rest, a sorry state of affairs.
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It was a quality ball from Petrov for Ash to win the penalty but for someone who plays in such an important position for us Petrov has an alarming lack of energy and stamina. He's slow too which, if your team is dominating, isn't necessarily an issue but, if you're struggling, pace can help you recover bad situations. He just doesn't have that.
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Poor substitution with Heskey and Albrighton. The system needed to be changed not bringing on a centre-forward nad putting him wide. then leaving a winger in the hole. Very confused substitution. Also, unless he was injured I'm not sure about the Ciaran Clarke substitution. It was very much like pointing the finger at him. Yes he was poor but they all were. He may as well have stayed on for the oft quoted,'character building' exercise. i think that Kev Mc may be given a game to restore his own confidence, and maybe reputation, but Randy needs to act fast. We need stability and that means a permanent manager.
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Albrighton was woeful. Not any more appalling than Downing, but still abysmal nonetheless.
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Albrighton was woeful. Not any more appalling than Downing, but still abysmal nonetheless.
I thought Downing contributed a bit. He was probably one of the few players that contributed. Sorry I mean two players in him and Ash.
I said on the pre-match thread that Albrighton should have been given a rest. He's good but coming into football at the highest level at a high intensity to play three games in eight days is perhaps a bridge too far.
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Any side going to that place this season needs to be ready to have the shit kicked out of them through the middle. Petrov, no disrespect, is a pansy most of the time, and is not enough to be a holding player in this division. Milner has kept him afloat for 12 months, Ireland won't. Ireland will offer plenty, but playing where Ash did today away from home, with Ash on the left, and IMO I would play NRC right hand side tucked in for a game like this. Defensive yes, but at least you get a bit of bite into the side.
Anyhow, there should be a few very ashamed men out there.
Re the Dunne weight issue - spot on - my wife said to me in the Valencia game he looked a good stone bigger. Not good.
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Luke Young has to play left back next game.
And then play a Centre Back at Right back...surely everyone can see that
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Regardless of him picking the ball out of the net six times today, there's no way I'd stick Guzan in. He's not done enough to suggest he's up to it.
i would. he wouldnt have let that first goal in,
he's a good shot stopper. not great on crosses nor is friedel.
friedel wont get any better. guzan will. time to give him a run.
friedel completly mised the ball when trying to punch out today. if that was guzan, he would have got pelters
guzan would not have saved the show today, it was all to bad for that. but he is the future more than friedel is
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Very odd game, even at 3-0 at half time I thought if we scored we could get back into it. We were the better team and 3-0 down.
Fair play to Newcastle for taking their chances, some of which came from some absolutely shocking defending. Second Half we really weren't at the races.
Defesnively we were very poor, that's not just the fault of the defence, there was no bite in midfield and we miss Gabby's pace up front so much.
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In three lines you've summed it up perfectly, Tony.
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Still reeling from it and don;t quite know how it happened when the first 15 minutes looked quite promising. After missing the penalty we just seemed to give up.
Newcastle are a big strong physical side and were totally up for it. I think too many of our midfielders and defenders just got bullied out of it, especially the youngsters like Albrighton and Clark, but also Petrov, Downing, Ireland, and the full backs. Might have been different with Collins or Cuellar at CB alongside Dunne, and maybe NRC in from the start.
Cant understand anyone blaming L Young, he was no worse than a few other senior players like Dunne, Petrov or Warnock.
Blaming O'Neill is out of order too. I didn't like him or his football , but his away record was very very good, Chelsea aside, and I doubt we would have capitulated like that to such an ordinary team under him. This was down to KMac's selection and tactics and the players not being up for it enough.
Edit:Forgot to say I've thought Friedel has been a bit past it for a while now and he looked it again today, first goal especially was a straightfoward save.
fully agree with everything said---the whole side were out--bullied, and had no answer to Newcastle,s bustling style we just capitulated, rolled over and died-----an absoulte disgrace!!!
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They looked like a team with no drection or instructions, as soon as we went 1 down it was a mess.
There were shades on that On Thursday.
Bright opening, and if things had continued to go our way we could have won relatively comfortably. But as soon as we conceded we looked a different team. Or no team at all, in fact.
If your plan/ tactics are solid, then a minor setback like a goal conceded shouldn't resort in that level of tail off.
For all the shite of the players coming out and saying they want Kevin Mac to get the gig fulltime, there was little evidence of that today. Our formation/ team selection was a mistake, and if the foundations are facked you're always going to struggle.
But 6 shagging 0 to that shower...
Good teams just don't lose by that scoreline. Particularly to that level of opposition. We're effectively talking about a Championship side with a few busted flushes thrown in for good measure (them -not us...though you do wonder).
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I went to bed at 1-0 when my third stream shat itself, and my oh my am I pleased with that decision. Thankfully the mocking texts started chiming in before I watched it back this morning.
Two decent results against average opposition does not mean you're a great manager.
One absolute collapse against average opposition just might mean you're not.
In fairness, this is not KM's team, and I think we are starting to see the beginning of the consequences of MON walking out and leaving the rest of us in the sh*t.
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This probably isn't going to be a popular view as I suspect the pain of not only being defeated but the manner of that defeat will be around for quite some time yet.
But, having slept on it, the result is that we've dropped at least a point. One. And that's what the league is based on - points. If we miss out on a CL spot at the end of the campaign on goal difference, then I'll be pissed off.
In the meantime, many people have said on this site that we'd settle for a slightly lower finish in the table if we tried out some of the youth players. And, sadly, this is what sometimes happens when you come up against a team that is effectively battle-hardened from a season in the rough and tumble of the Championship.
The team will learn from this, Kev Mac will learn from this.
We now know for sure that a midfield pairing of Petrov and Ireland doesn't work and I don't expect to see that again. We know that Carew cannot be relied upon when it comes to the crunch. I would hope from this point on, he'll be a last-ten-minutes impact player.
The team, stacked with youth, will not have any sort of learning curve unless they come up against a variety of teams. Yesterday they were faced with bruisers. On another day they'll have to face a technical team that can pass (and keep) the ball. Further down the track, a long ball team will front up.
At the end of those lessons, if we've not learned anything, then changes will have to be made.
But, just like any other trade, you learn from experience.
So, a dropped point. No biggy. Most Villa fans will have to wear the insults for at least a week but hopefully much of what went wrong at Newcastle will be put right again and that result will be nothing more than an anomaly.
As I said at the start, I don't expect this to be the most popular of viewpoints but it is what it is.
We move on from here.
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The game is very emotional and it's very tough to take when you've been beaten that badly. I think you make some sound points Troy. The good thing is this has happened at the very start of the season. There's a lot of uncertainty, and we have to stay calm. There's going to be a lot of change in the next few weeks, and as a club we have to stick together until things settle down. The big thing is we don't all melt down over this. That we regroup and focus on what is a big test on Thursday. Not only from the standpoint of staying in Europe, but as a way of showing that we can bounce back, and that Sunday was just a freak event.
The league season doesn't mean a whole lot this early on, and we'll certainly recover from this because we are better than what we showed today.
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It's the nature of the tonking though Troy - and who it was against.
Had it been against a crack top 4 Prem side who ripped us to pieces with good passing and good movement it would still have been a shameful scoreline.
Had we lost 2/3-0 to a newly promoted side that in itself would be cause for concern.
When you combine the scoreline and the opposition there really is no hiding place.
You wonder if this idea of 'a season of transition' has seeped into the mindset of the players, this one doesn't really matter as we'll be comfortable anyway.
As a few have mentioned, Dunne looks top-heavy and all over the shop and Warnock's ongoing dip in form is far from ideal either. Both were big players for us last year - Dunne more so. But what if the motivation that spurned him on last year -proving Citeh wrong- has burnt out. Is he just settling now? There was talk of Warnock being unsettled over the summer too.
Factor in losing one of our most consistent players this week and you can understand why it might be hard just to write this one off as a bad day at the office. Usually a reversal of this nature is indicative of a deeper underlying problem.
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Honestly? That's a real opinion? It isn't made up just to make my eyes bleed and head hurt?
NEWCASTLE UNITED 6 - 0 ASTON VILLA
"So, a dropped point. No biggy" :shoots himself in the face thingy:
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I'm sorry, I'm a bit drunk. But "So, a dropped point. No biggy". I ain't that drunk.
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What it will have done is destroy the notion that playing the kids will negate the need to strengthen. On another thread i said those that are looking to NRC have short memories. We need a quality defensive midfielder and a centre forward that can hold on to the ball, the midfield of Petrov and Ireland can't possibly work, don't get me wrong Irelland will be an asset but not in the role he played yesterday. The main concern for me is a new manager, KM is not qualified to take over a top six prem side, the need for an experienced manager who has operated at the top level is critical.
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I'm sorry, I'm a bit drunk. But "So, a dropped point. No biggy". I ain't that drunk.
But that's what it is. The difference between say 1-1 and losing 273-0 is....one point. For sure we should be grateful that there's no system that rewards extra points for more goals (or rather takes points off for ridiculous performances) but it's a lost point which, at some point during the season we'll make up for.
Oh yes, it's not a pleasant scoreline to look at (or have to deal with at work on Monday) but it's done now....we have to deal with it or cry about it for 6 months while the season goes down the toilet.
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"The team Stacked with youth" !!!
we had 2 kids out there, the rest were regular 1st teamers, its not like the team we put out against Rapid.
i want to know what happened in the 7 days after beating West Ham because there is obviously something wrong
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Fair comment. Maybe just wishful thinking that it was inexperience that caused that.
Albrighton and Clark are young, Ireland's not a first teamer for anyone - especially in that position.
you could even argue that, under MON, Luke Young was not a regular first teamer.
But, yes, you're right, not as youthful as I thought.
My overall point still stands though....with the introduction of Albrighton and Clark (as well as the others coming through), the re-introduction of reserve players and a new manager, it'll be a period of transition and the occasional bollocking whilst the squad get fully used to each other and, just as critically, life without Milner, will be handed out.....and, occasionally, handed back!
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Troy, I am sorry but your comments are utterly blase. See another thread for my track record and I can assure you that was a bad, bad, bad defeat. They were not bruisers. They played us into the ground because we capitulated from the instant Carew's penalty joke sailed into the back of the stand. Equally bad was Kevin McDonald's transmogrification into Martin O'Neill after one whole week doing too little too late to prevent or even moderate a defeat of seismic proportions.
Villa defeats I can take, I have taken hundreds. Relegation I can cope with, even losing FA Cup semi finals but the one thing which might, just might make me turn my back on Villa after a lifetime is fans behaving like the captain of the Titanic. Iceberg? What iceberg? The one you just hit.
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"The team Stacked with youth" !!!
we had 2 kids out there, the rest were regular 1st teamers, its not like the team we put out against Rapid.
i want to know what happened in the 7 days after beating West Ham because there is obviously something wrong
Sorry. The kids did not screw up - the veterans did. It was Ireland's first game, he gets a pass. But Dunne, Carew, Petrov were awful.
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"The team Stacked with youth" !!!
we had 2 kids out there, the rest were regular 1st teamers, its not like the team we put out against Rapid.
i want to know what happened in the 7 days after beating West Ham because there is obviously something wrong
Sorry. The kids did not screw up - the veterans did. It was Ireland's first game, he gets a pass. But Dunne, Carew, Petrov were awful.
I think Carew's performance was the most abject, gutless, cowardly and pathetic display from a Villa player i've seen in a long time.
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Just woken up and i still cant believe it happened. The one crumb of consolation is that unlike the 7-1 last season i dont have to work with half a dozen of the geordie bastards.
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Nope, Sorry Troy but after sleeping on it i'm still so angry I could just shit a live pitbull terrier.
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Agree with you Troy. Yesterday, I believe, was a total freak result.
We looked like we would do the same to them in the early stages. These things tend to happen when a club is in chaos.
We lost our manager a short time ago, we need a new one very soon or this season is going to just be a write off (League wise)
But well said, I'd have been happy enough with a point.
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Having slept on it, I can consider that we had little time this week, with the Europa game on Thursday, to sort out the massive changes needed to how the midfield operates with Ireland instead of Milner. This is where, in retrospect, taking him and some of the other "rested" players to Vienna might've been a good idea.
There's time to look at this now and hopefully sort out something that works.
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This is where, in retrospect, taking him and some of the other "rested" players to Vienna might've been a good idea.
I said exactly that out in Vienna when the team was announced. Some players, Luke Young, Ireland etc, need match experience and that game could have done them the world of good.
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But, having slept on it, the result is that we've dropped at least a point. One. And that's what the league is based on - points. If we miss out on a CL spot at the end of the campaign on goal difference, then I'll be pissed off.
I agree with most of your points in the cold, unemotional light of day, but I can't believe we'll be anywhere near the top 4 at the end of this season, and I thought that long before MON left. I don't even think we'll finish in a Europa League place.
Anyway, with regards to the result yesterday, it was just a perfect storm. A newly promoted team, well up for it, with hardened professionals (especially in the central midfield, each of which was on the fringe of the England squad/team at some point in their career), a number of inexperienced players on our team, a caretaker manager, a couple of woefully out-of-form players in key positions (Dunne, Warnock, Carew), a debut by a player lacking full fitness... I could go on. Fair play to Newcastle for not letting off on the pace at all (goal difference will likely be very important for them come the end of the season). It was just a really bad day, made worse by the fact that it was on TV. Having seen how organised FUlham were against Man Utd, I kind of wish Hughes had still been available. Damn that O'Neill fellow, he really shafted Villa with the timing of his departure.
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We now know for sure that a midfield pairing of Petrov and Ireland doesn't work a
That is ridiculous and I stopped reading there.
You have decided that already after watching 1 game.
How many times has Ireland even trained with his new team mates?
When was the last time Ireland completed 90 minutes? I'm sure he's just short of match fitness.
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So it wasn't all a terrible dream then?
Crap.
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It was only sleep not Class A drugs. I am still well pissed that we could lose and lose in that way to what will turn out to be one of the worst teams in the league.
There may have been a couple of selection issues but even so we should have had more than enough. Most of us would have picked exactly that side and more importantly so would MON.
Stop kidding yourselves that he would have put NRC and Davies in the side as he rated neither, the rest are injured.
Its one game but showing such a lack of effort, desire, bottle or spirit is a disgrace!!
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So they seem like a pair of crunching hard-men to you? the kind of combination that can stop the opposition midfield in their tracks - cuz that's what they were put there for.
Sorry, Paul, but when Alan Smith can walk past you, there's something wrong. Petrov is more a holding player than a hitman.....get the loose ball, run it out of defense....get the attack rolling. Ireland is a creative player that should be receiving the ball from Petrov much further up the pitch.
Together, in front of the back four is not a good combo especially when you're in the process of being brutalised by a physical team.
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Having slept on it, I think Villa are guilty of bringing back to the Premier League an abberation from which we'd had a merciful break since the Shearer-led relegation: the delusional Geordie football fan.
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I resisted posting yesterday.
A few things jumped out at me though. We miss Gabby more than any other player. We would either have crucified the preposterous high line they were playing defensively or they would have to have sat a lot deeper and given us more room to play with. The sooner he is back the better.
Kevin MacDonald just talked himself out of any hope of the job full time yesterday. We need to make an appointment, it needs to be the right one, but we cannot procrastinate over this. Otherwise, we risk letting the season go down the kermit as soon as it has started.
We are still at least one midfielder and a forward light at the minute and this needs to be addressed rapidly.
Yesterday we were weak. Weak in midfield, weak in the air. We need tougher players. I don't want to lay into the kids but Clark was shown up for being a kid at times yesterday.
We can all handle a defeat, even a crap one. But to give up so completely and so early in the piece was unforgiveable.
The attendance on Wednesday will be interesting.
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The problem I keep coming back to is that we have had 2 of these defeats in approx 10 league games (Chelsea). What lessons have been learnt from the first time? What actions were taken last time?
It seems to me we have a soft streak in the team.
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Just woken up and i still cant believe it happened. The one crumb of consolation is that unlike the 7-1 last season i dont have to work with half a dozen of the geordie bastards.
By some bizarre twist of fate, I work with two of the bastards, and you can imagine what my desk looks like this morning. Fuckers.
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What it will have done is destroy the notion that playing the kids will negate the need to strengthen. On another thread i said those that are looking to NRC have short memories. We need a quality defensive midfielder and a centre forward that can hold on to the ball, the midfield of Petrov and Ireland can't possibly work, don't get me wrong Irelland will be an asset but not in the role he played yesterday. The main concern for me is a new manager, KM is not qualified to take over a top six prem side, the need for an experienced manager who has operated at the top level is critical.
No no, it'll be fine. The players know and respect KMac.
Seriously though, you're absolutely right, we need a top manager in and quick. No doing things on the cheap, no appointments from within. Appointing KM just feels like such an 'Ellis' appointment.
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I wish I could look on 'the big picture' and just see it as a point dropped Troy.
But for me, it is even worse having slept on it.
We managed to play football for about 30 mins yesterday, and although the general concencus is that we were on top in that period, we didn't actually have shot on target and I don't recall even getting a corner.
After that initial 30 mins, it was the most total capitulation we have ever witnessed.
This was a batterering from a poor team, not Arsenal,Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool or even Man City.
It was from a team who probably will not finish top half this season and frankly, were not particularly impressive in any way yesterday.
My fear is that we are a rudderless ship while we wait for RL to make his decision on the new manager.
For all the talk we have heard about the team being 'released' and 'unshackled' after MON walked out, maybe there is also a loss of discipline ?
I think there may be an element of 'when the cats away........' at the club.
KM may be a great coach, but it does not make you a manager.
Everyone knows that the coach at a club is the 'mate' of the players whereas the manager is a bit aloof and distant (although we know that MON took this to the extreme).
I'm sure the players respect KM, but not in the way they would respect a top manager.
The majority of players nowadays a pampered prima donnas (ours are no exception) and they need to be kept inline.
For this reason I think its imperrative we get the right man in ASAP to prevent a malaise setting in.
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Honestly? That's a real opinion? It isn't made up just to make my eyes bleed and head hurt?
NEWCASTLE UNITED 6 - 0 ASTON VILLA
"So, a dropped point. No biggy" :shoots himself in the face thingy:
Absolutely.
Sorry but "a dropped point" does not even begin to wash.
I went to bed last night feeling physically sick and woke up this morning feeling worse.
This was not even comparable to losing 1-0 to Everton or something.
We lost 6-0 to a newly promoted side. Look at their teamsheet yesterday. If that isn't humiliation i don't know what is.
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I woke up and the scoreline hit me straight away , so I put my head back under the pillow...
Maybe these media experts are right when the say there is becoming a gap in the Prem with the big clubs annilihated these small clubs too often. ;-cc
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I think alot has been learned from yesterdays game.
1. At the start of the game my friend said he was concerned about the lack of physicality in the midfield and that we were too attacking. I think away from home it showed we were too open. We needed steel and grit when we went behind and too many heads dropped.
2. Albrighton and Clark are emerging prospects not starting 11 yet. We need balance under o'neill they would of got 2 mins a season now we are going too far the other way. They need cameo roles 20 mins here the odd start to bring them on. Albrighton looked tired yesterday.
3. We need 2 or at a minimum 1 new striker. Carroll showed what Carew needed to do yesterday. Carew on his day is still good enough but them days are few and far between. Heskey has gone and has to leave.
4. Randy has to make a decision. Like the general says one good game/ one bad game so far so KMc should not be hounded out but yesterday looked naive. We need direction urgently and randy is the only man who can decide that.
5. Stuart Downing is a luxury. With the ball at his feet he is a good player when its not he the most frustrating little wimp ever. He needs a damn good kick up the arse. We bought the wrong left winger from middlesborough.
6. Before the transfer window closes to have any hope of top six we need a striker and a winger.
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I agree we need a striker but would love to see a big nasty fooker in midfield....
or even a flamini
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Couple of points:-
I always think you learn more from your defeats than your victories, so from that perspective this sort of thing can really sort some issues out. The biggest is Petrov, as when we're under the cosh he really doesn't give you what you need from someone is his position. Coupled with Ireland, who in hindsight probably shouldn't have started, we can clearly see we need better protection to the back four. That should mean either a new player coming in or NRC playing more often.
Clark and Albrighton may be good young players, but we can now see that the 'young' bit is quite important. They'll be good in games like West Ham, but we may need to be prepared to change them when we need a bit more experience and strength when things are tougher.
Team's tend to reflect their manager, so are we now faced with having a side that's technically quite good, but lacking some mental toughness, desire and a will to win? If that's the case, then K-Mac isn't the man for the job.
As always, these things happen in football, so we need judge the side now by the result itself, but by the reaction to it. After the Chelsea 7-1 game last season didn't we go on a longish unbeaten run until Man City away? That's how we put things right!
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K-Mac isn't the man for the job.
You got that spot-on. I really wish people would stop touting him for the job, he doesn't want it and is clearly not we need.
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Yesterday was a blessing in disguise: at least we are now reasonably assured that the (perhaps understandable) wave of sympathy and support for the Board and KM will subside to reveal the situation as it really is, i.e., that the leadership has somehow managed to lose its key employee at a critical time.
If that had happened in my job under my watch, then my boss would be asking me why the hell I didn't have the risk covered. There is no hiding place for the Board I'm afraid, notwithstanding MoN's very poor judgement in terms of timing his departure.
So, we will not have KM as manager. Thank Christ (for us but also for him). We are Aston Villa; Ricky Sbragia type solutions are not for us.
We are beginning to look very naive in terms of our approach at executive level: slightly parochial, unconnected, rudderless, indecisive, out of control of events. We need a quality and experienced manager and very, very quickly and that manager needs to have a week or so to deal in the transfer market. That is so painfully obvious. If it has to be Sven for one year with a medium term plan behind that, then so be it. At least he would likely get the basics of the team setup and approach right. He'd also have an idea about one or two players he would like in, I imagine.
Bob Bradley, why not? Just not this year, it's not the right time.
Come on guys, get your acts together.
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6. Before the transfer window closes to have any hope of top six we need a striker and a winger.
And, sooner rather than later, a goalkeeper
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After yesterday's totally inept performance i just hope this is not a sign of thing's to come and it was just a one off.
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K-Mac isn't the man for the job.
You got that spot-on. I really wish people would stop touting him for the job, he doesn't want it and is clearly not we need.
Just to be clear, I was raising that as a question/discussion point and not as a conclusion I had come to. What yesterday might suggest is his lack of desire for the job, if that's right, might transmit to the players, giving us bit of a soft underbelly.
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K-Mac isn't the man for the job.
You got that spot-on. I really wish people would stop touting him for the job, he doesn't want it and is clearly not we need.
Just to be clear, I was raising that as a question/discussion point and not as a conclusion I had come to. What yesterday might suggest is his lack of desire for the job, if that's right, might transmit to the players, giving us bit of a soft underbelly.
I know, I was quoting you out of context on purpose because I'm upset and angry :P
In any case, you're probably right about KM - why some people thought he'd be the next man is utterly beyond me. We NEED someone to come in and steady the team, it's all up in the air atm.
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I've not read any of the thread, but here is my take.
I've seen us playing worse than we were in the first half yesterday, and be winning.
It was just one of them games I think. Had Carew scored that penalty, or that Young goal not been disallowed I think we'd be here now talking about how K-Mac should get the job and how brilliant we are. However, they never happened and we saw the result of that.
To give up the way we did though is a bit of a worry. As is the fact that after Newcastle got the first goal you could see that we were struggling down the middle, and that Clark was struggling with Carroll. (Who I must admit on the back of that performance can see why Mazrim was raving about him). The latter I blame Dunne for, as he is experienced enough to have been able to see that and should've taken the responsibility away from Clark.
I'm not going to criticise the starting line up, as that is the line up I'd have wanted us to play, and I genuinely think that Newcastle were there for the taking.
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K-Mac isn't the man for the job.
You got that spot-on. I really wish people would stop touting him for the job, he doesn't want it and is clearly not we need.
Just to be clear, I was raising that as a question/discussion point and not as a conclusion I had come to. What yesterday might suggest is his lack of desire for the job, if that's right, might transmit to the players, giving us bit of a soft underbelly.
Our worry was that there was rarely anybody out in the technical area yesterday.
That would have meant a lack of communication from bench to pitch, resulting in a load of loose cannons chasing around.
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6. Before the transfer window closes to have any hope of top six we need a striker and a winger.
And, sooner rather than later, a goalkeeper
I'm glad some else recognises this.
We only have 2 keepers as it is but I think Freidel is nearing the end and I'm not sure Guzan is upto the job.
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Well yesterdays 'effort' has just cemented that we need to go in for Eriksson asap.
He's available, he wants the job, he's highly experienced and would be able to to get us organised as a squad, attract decent players and would galvanise the entire club. Get it done, no if's and no but's. He's what we need now.
We need someone that has the experience to hit the ground running as many more performances even remotely similar to yesterday and we'll be facing a battle to avoid relegation let alone a battle for a European place.
After yesterdays performance, we are now so far off being a challenger for a Top 4 spot it isn't funny.
I'm struggling to think of two so massively contrasting performances within the period of one week, let alone them being the first two league games of the season.
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After yesterday's totally inept performance i just hope this is not a sign of thing's to come and it was just a one off.
Darren, hope so.
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6. Before the transfer window closes to have any hope of top six we need a striker and a winger.
And, sooner rather than later, a goalkeeper
This.
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Just woken up and i still cant believe it happened. The one crumb of consolation is that unlike the 7-1 last season i dont have to work with half a dozen of the geordie bastards.
By some bizarre twist of fate, I work with two of the bastards, and you can imagine what my desk looks like this morning. Fuckers.
Photo's please.
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I wish I could look on 'the big picture' and just see it as a point dropped Troy.
But for me, it is even worse having slept on it.
We managed to play football for about 30 mins yesterday, and although the general concencus is that we were on top in that period, we didn't actually have shot on target and I don't recall even getting a corner.
After that initial 30 mins, it was the most total capitulation we have ever witnessed.
This was a batterering from a poor team, not Arsenal,Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool or even Man City.
It was from a team who probably will not finish top half this season and frankly, were not particularly impressive in any way yesterday.
My fear is that we are a rudderless ship while we wait for RL to make his decision on the new manager.
For all the talk we have heard about the team being 'released' and 'unshackled' after MON walked out, maybe there is also a loss of discipline ?
I think there may be an element of 'when the cats away........' at the club.
KM may be a great coach, but it does not make you a manager.
Everyone knows that the coach at a club is the 'mate' of the players whereas the manager is a bit aloof and distant (although we know that MON took this to the extreme).
I'm sure the players respect KM, but not in the way they would respect a top manager.
The majority of players nowadays a pampered prima donnas (ours are no exception) and they need to be kept inline.
For this reason I think its imperrative we get the right man in ASAP to prevent a malaise setting in.
All good points and I found myself nodding at just about everything.
Your point about K-Mac being more a 'mate' than a manager is probably spot on, too.
Here's a bloke that has probably spent an awful lot of time in the last 12 months trying to smooth things over with MON's 'fringe players' and actual management could well be foreign to him.....I dunno what goes on with the reserves so it's all guesswork. But, I suspect you are bang on with 'the cats away' bit. It even gels with the West Ham win as it may well have been the lads going out and having a bit of fun. Fun that went rather well.
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We should be on the phone to MShitty today and trying to get Shay Given...
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just goes to show resting players for 'big' games is a complete waste of time. [moscow, newcastle]
if a player cant play 2 games in a week, then he needs to go and find a different job,
although the problem lies with coaches/managers in the prem legue telling players how tired they will feel if they play a couple of games,
its all a load of bollox
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We should be on the phone to MShitty today and trying to get Shay Given...
Thought that last week and well before the Newcastle debacle....
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I still think it was wrong to start with Ireland. Not match fit, yes too light in midfield, the players around the midfield are not use to him yet either. I think it showed up just how much work
Milner did on the pitch when he was with us. I'm not saying we wouldn't of lost yesterday necessarily if we still had Milner but surely the players around Milner would be used to how he plays and how he mops things up in midfield. Two days training and being thrown into the mix from kick off wasn't the best way for Ireland to make his debut. And it showed Milner and Ireland aren't like for like players. We need someone more solid behind him to break up play and allow Ireland to do what he does best.
Like others have said it's not doom and gloom. KMac will learn from this. He'll see that things need to change from the players. As a team like us should not be losing to scorelines like that. Not even from the big 4 clubs. We're better than that.
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Yesterday was a blessing in disguise: at least we are now reasonably assured that the (perhaps understandable) wave of sympathy and support for the Board and KM will subside to reveal the situation as it really is, i.e., that the leadership has somehow managed to lose its key employee at a critical time.
If that had happened in my job under my watch, then my boss would be asking me why the hell I didn't have the risk covered. There is no hiding place for the Board I'm afraid, notwithstanding MoN's very poor judgement in terms of timing his departure.
So, we will not have KM as manager. Thank Christ (for us but also for him). We are Aston Villa; Ricky Sbragia type solutions are not for us.
We are beginning to look very naive in terms of our approach at executive level: slightly parochial, unconnected, rudderless, indecisive, out of control of events. We need a quality and experienced manager and very, very quickly and that manager needs to have a week or so to deal in the transfer market. That is so painfully obvious. If it has to be Sven for one year with a medium term plan behind that, then so be it. At least he would likely get the basics of the team setup and approach right. He'd also have an idea about one or two players he would like in, I imagine.
Bob Bradley, why not? Just not this year, it's not the right time.
Come on guys, get your acts together.
Sir I disagree with you. No 6-0 defeat is a blessing in any shape or form. My personal view is those players dont give a stuff about our club.
Im not talking in hindisight but I believed that KM was only filling in until a permanant replacement came in. He has no previous Premiership credentials at management.
At any point in time, in any workplace an employee can walk out after a disagreement and the organisation has to deal with it. This is not lack of leadership or miscontrol of events just unexpected, you deal with it. I believe our board is looking for a replacement right now and unfortunately time is against us with the transfer window slammed shut. We have a decent squad to finish in the top 10 (because of the Milner departure) and the fringe players given more opportunity and faith than under MON.
Yesterday KM made some glaring mistakes that could have been actioned (even without success) yet his naivety shone through as did the players appalling disregard for the shirt. The only way to recitfy this is to win against Vienna to show it was a freak result like last season when we beat Bolton away the very next game.
Here we will start another cycle shortly when the new manager will shape the squad in his own image / style and the era of Petrov, Carew, Heskey, Friedal, Lyoung, playing CBs at RB and not 'rotating' has come to an end.
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Not worth commenting on, the match I mean. >:(
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Yesterday was just a bit bizarre and I've found out why and it probably deserves it's own thread.
The Daily Mash (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/newcastle-delusions-invade-reality-201008233028/)
It's OK to laugh again now after a period of mourning.
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Newcastle were undefeated in 25 games at St James' Park.
They had the support of a big crowd (that averaged the 4th highest in England last season).
They had virtually the same team in place that they've had for a few years, all of whom knew and have played with each other a lot.
They had the momentum that comes from the hype of being newly promoted whereas we had the realisation that our manager had left only the week before.
We didn't change things soon enough.
We were shit.
Still, it could be worse.
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Just woken up and i still cant believe it happened. The one crumb of consolation is that unlike the 7-1 last season i dont have to work with half a dozen of the geordie bastards.
By some bizarre twist of fate, I work with two of the bastards, and you can imagine what my desk looks like this morning. Fuckers.
You should adopt my attitude. When I get ribbed, I just say "God isn't embarrassing for the players? I wouldn't like to be in their shoes."
No point in being embarrassed for something you had no control over. Keep the anger and upset private!
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I've slept on it and im still fucking furious. What a load of crap no positives and no shots on target, get a manager in and quickly!!
Hopefully we can get someone in before 31st but I doubt it, I doubt it will be Given anyway
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To have a penalty and still not have any shots on target is not inspiring.
Anyway, I said when I renewed I was not going to get all wound up about football this season. I therefore intend to take this on the chin.
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It's not the scoreline that bothered me about yesterday, it was the woeful ineptitude of the performance. It really looked like men against boys, almost like an FA cup match with a prem team playing a sunday league side. We made Newcastle, a newly promoted and very average side, look like Brazil. Our performance was absolutely gutless, that is the cause for concern, not the fact that we dropped a point or two.
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Slept on it and it hasn't helped. I'm completely at a loss to explain why we have just lost SIX NIL to a championship side (only the fullback was an addition to last years team i believe). It wasn't even one bad half, we lost them both 3-0. It wasn't a dodgy ref, a dodgy lino, an injury hit team (In fact most had been "rested" the week before - if ever there was an argument that this "resting" lark is a load of bollocks then this would be great evidence for it.) Shots on target - zero. Corners - two. We were anhilated.
What makes it worse is thats the emptiest ive ever seen St James Park. They were quiet until they started scoring and seemed resigned to the fact they had already lost the moment we kicked off.
Don't really know why ive typed this actually as its nothing you don't already know. Sorry for wasting your time all, just had to get things off my chest !!
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This is one game that I'm glad I wasn't able to watch here in the states. Well, we know 2 things - 1. We are better than West Ham. 2. We are better than West Ham.
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Ive slept on it and without jumping the gun i never realised how much we need Gabby and Collins until now utter drivel yesterday and shamefull lets just hope the boys had a good look at themselves on the long bus ride back to their Bentleys and Aston Martins in the club car park...........
They fucking owe us now , we need a positive reaction from the players and the board to get us back on track or else I do think we will have a real fight on our hands for top 6 cos champs league aint happening full stop. Some changes are needed tho ...downing and petrov are never dropped no matter how bad they play that has to change ,I hope Ireland plays again Vienna as he just needs matches and Warnock and Luke Young need a psychiatrist to see whats goin on in their heads cos theyre different palyers at the mo .....
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having slept on it...I've decided that I'm not going Thursday and will also not spend money on my kids having the new shirts. I think someone else said that the Villa will lose money on Thursday now.
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Disgusting, shameful,embrassing no effort pride or heart!!!!!
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I'm still gutted and spent all day yesterday in a daze (apart from when a couple of Dickheads in my office starting singing 6-0 and i told them to fuck off). It bothered me that they have no interest in football but were trying to wing me up. It worked >:(.
I still can't believe how we can lose 6-0 to that shower of shit.
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Fucking glad I was in Benbecula when this was on!
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I watched the game online over here on hols in Florida. Went to Universal Studios yesterday and barcodes were fecking everywhere - horrible.