Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: toplad4u on August 14, 2010, 04:59:15 PM
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I know it's only been one game but definatly think give him a chance and assess after 2 more games what do you guy think?
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If he keeps us playing like that then cant see why not.
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i said this to my wife when o'niell quit, i think if another manager was to come in the kids would be in the same boat as with o'niell
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Why the hell not? He got everything spot on for this game, granted it's only West Ham but we were still brilliant, it could have been 6 or 7!!
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He gets my vote!
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He might not want it, not everyone wants to be manager. I'd rather he be in the set up for another manager.
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Give him 4-5 games minimum.
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I think we need to wait a bit to see how he does over the next few games. Having said that, I'd prefer him to the likes of Bob Bradley whose knowledge of the English game is (presumably) limited.
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It's a bit early to say, one great performance against a truly dire side. But I can't help liking the idea of him and Sid leading the first team. And today certainly did his cause no harm.
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:'(Seen many caretakers start well and fade , but this was impressive! Not voted because i'm not sure ,but wouldn't be against it either.
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Alright, calm down people.
What I think we will need is a more teamwork-based approach to coaching. MON seemed to dictate to his cronies, Walford and Robertson, who'd occasionally advise him but mostly carry out his orders. We need a better, more inclusive approach, whoever comes in, and K Mac definitely has to be an important voice in the fray.
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Ok, let's not all get carried away here. Yes, that was an excellent first game but give him a few more and we'll see. If he can get us playing like that every game then he should definitely be given a chance. It'll save us a lot of hassle trying to get a new manager in anyways.
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It is too big a step up from reserve team manager to the 1st team of a team that wants to be at the top end of the PL. He has no experience of the buying and selling part of management which is so important in the game today.
He has qualities, no doubt about it but I think assistant manager to a quality foreign manager would be better. It would be too much of a risk to through him in at the deep end.
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http://twitter.com/JUANPABLOANGEL
Juan Pablo Angel thinks he should be!
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The last thing we want now is some big ego walking into the club and upsetting the harmony that is there now, there is no rush to replace MCD, no panic appointment and if that means leaving it alone for a season then so be it
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Lets not rush into any hasty judgments. He has got them to produce a superb performance today but I think that is too little to judge on. I also think it is wrong however, to immediately discount him.
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Let's not get carried away here. He didn't really coach them this week. This is more of a case of the clouds lifting than what KM was able to do. He's been a brilliant reserve team coach bringing the kids through. That's his strength. I want a proven manager. We're not Wigan or Stoke where we can take those chances.
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% game minimum, let's see how we get on against the bigger teams first.
That said, it was great today considering how many times over the past few seasons how we've played against West Ham and how those games turned out.
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Let's not get carried away here. He didn't really coach them this week. This is more of a case of the clouds lifting than what KM was able to do. He's been a brilliant reserve team coach bringing the kids through. That's his strength. I want a proven manager. We're not Wigan or Stoke where we can take those chances.
Agree 100%.
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Great performance and a great team selection.
But, one game does not make a premiership manager.
I still think a proven manager is the way to go.
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SuperMac should retire now - with a 100% record.
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Let's not get carried away here. He didn't really coach them this week. This is more of a case of the clouds lifting than what KM was able to do. He's been a brilliant reserve team coach bringing the kids through. That's his strength. I want a proven manager. We're not Wigan or Stoke where we can take those chances.
Agree 85%. He's been coaching them since they returned from their summer break.
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Let's not get carried away here. He didn't really coach them this week. This is more of a case of the clouds lifting than what KM was able to do. He's been a brilliant reserve team coach bringing the kids through. That's his strength. I want a proven manager. We're not Wigan or Stoke where we can take those chances.
Agree 85%. He's been coaching them since they returned from their summer break.
Not as manager, which ultimately is a very different animal when the buck stops with you. It's a very different level of pressure, and Villa is a big club with demanding expectations. He's never managed before at any level, so to throw him in at such a big club could drown him. I'd sooner he kept doing what he's doing becaue he's superb at that.
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Let's not get carried away here. He didn't really coach them this week. This is more of a case of the clouds lifting than what KM was able to do. He's been a brilliant reserve team coach bringing the kids through. That's his strength. I want a proven manager. We're not Wigan or Stoke where we can take those chances.
Agree 85%. He's been coaching them since they returned from their summer break.
Not as manager, which ultimately is a very different animal when the buck stops with you. It's a very different level of pressure, and Villa is a big club with demanding expectations. He's never managed before at any level, so to throw him in at such a big club could drown him. I'd sooner he kept doing what he's doing becaue he's superb at that.
What are you going on about? I agreed with you, I just added that he's been working with the players this summer, so obviously it's not like he hasn't seen them/coached them. I'd like to see him as number 2 to whoever we bring in and after today, I think it will be difficult for him to step back down to the Reserves again.
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Why not? He'd not have so much pressure. I think us lot would give him a seasons slack, unless it went disastrously wrong, which I don't believe it will. At reserve level he's done brilliantly. I know experience is an issue, but he knows the stiffs well, and the youngsters. He probably has the respect of everyone at Villa for the job he does.
Most of all, today I just loved the way we played football. Our movement looked better, and the players actually seemed to know what they were doing. We expressed ourselves in a game against a team that pretty much left one up front all game. Last season against a low end park the bus team at Villa park, we'd have laboured and struggled. Not today.
We passed it, moved it. Not so much aimless running and expulsion of energy. Petrov was allowed to conserve himself well over 90 minutes, rather than burnout, and he ran the game.
Who else is around? No one to really excite. Why not give him a go? He might have a really positive impact, like JG did. Obviously JG's steam ran out and teams figured him out. That may also happen. But recruiting from within may work wonders for us. The young talent is there, with some good seniors, and Kev knows them better than any incoming boss.
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If a top-class manager is not available, then why not till the end of the season.
As most people point out, you don't make decisions after one game, good or bad!
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The folly of this idea can be demonstrated by the fact that had we lost 3-0 then no-one would be championing his appointment.
In other words, it's an instant reaction to one win. And that's not a serious basis for deciding who should be the manager of a Premier League football club which has Champions League aspirations.
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Let's not get carried away here. He didn't really coach them this week. This is more of a case of the clouds lifting than what KM was able to do. He's been a brilliant reserve team coach bringing the kids through. That's his strength. I want a proven manager. We're not Wigan or Stoke where we can take those chances.
Agree 85%. He's been coaching them since they returned from their summer break.
Not as manager, which ultimately is a very different animal when the buck stops with you. It's a very different level of pressure, and Villa is a big club with demanding expectations. He's never managed before at any level, so to throw him in at such a big club could drown him. I'd sooner he kept doing what he's doing becaue he's superb at that.
What are you going on about? I agreed with you, I just added that he's been working with the players this summer, so obviously it's not like he hasn't seen them/coached them. I'd like to see him as number 2 to whoever we bring in and after today, I think it will be difficult for him to step back down to the Reserves again.
I'm going on about the 15% that disagreed with me on, which is neither here nor there. Let's not make this into a drama. We're both saying the same thing. I'm just saying coaching and managing is different, especially when he's mainly been coaching the kids, and not the first team.
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The folly of this idea can be demonstrated by the fact that had we lost 3-0 then no-one would be championing his appointment.
In other words, it's an instant reaction to one win. And that's not a serious basis for deciding who should be the manager of a Premier League football club which has Champions League aspirations.
Agreed but that's not to say that KMcD can't be part of the set up, making the hand over more fluid, not to mention what he can offer to the team/manager. Both Arsenal (Pat Rice) and Chelsea (Clarke?) have successfully done something similar.
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Let's not get carried away here. He didn't really coach them this week. This is more of a case of the clouds lifting than what KM was able to do. He's been a brilliant reserve team coach bringing the kids through. That's his strength. I want a proven manager. We're not Wigan or Stoke where we can take those chances.
Agree 85%. He's been coaching them since they returned from their summer break.
Not as manager, which ultimately is a very different animal when the buck stops with you. It's a very different level of pressure, and Villa is a big club with demanding expectations. He's never managed before at any level, so to throw him in at such a big club could drown him. I'd sooner he kept doing what he's doing becaue he's superb at that.
What are you going on about? I agreed with you, I just added that he's been working with the players this summer, so obviously it's not like he hasn't seen them/coached them. I'd like to see him as number 2 to whoever we bring in and after today, I think it will be difficult for him to step back down to the Reserves again.
I'm going on about the 15% that disagreed with me on, which is neither here nor there. Let's not make this into a drama. We're both saying the same thing. I'm just saying coaching and managing is different, especially when he's mainly been coaching the kids, and not the first team.
The Reserves not the kids. (winky)
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The folly of this idea can be demonstrated by the fact that had we lost 3-0 then no-one would be championing his appointment.
In other words, it's an instant reaction to one win. And that's not a serious basis for deciding who should be the manager of a Premier League football club which has Champions League aspirations.
Agreed but that's not to say that KMcD can't be part of the set up, making the hand over more fluid, not to mention what he can offer to the team/manager. Both Arsenal (Pat Rice) and Chelsea (Clarke?) have successfully done something similar.
Absoluetly, but I think he already is part of the set up by making these players ready to step up. Thing is, he may not want to be in the spotlight, and some people like the behind the scenes work. Either way, he's deserved a chance given his time at the club to have a bigger say in first team matters if he wants to. That is hard to disgree with.
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The folly of this idea can be demonstrated by the fact that had we lost 3-0 then no-one would be championing his appointment.
In other words, it's an instant reaction to one win. And that's not a serious basis for deciding who should be the manager of a Premier League football club which has Champions League aspirations.
Agreed but that's not to say that KMcD can't be part of the set up, making the hand over more fluid, not to mention what he can offer to the team/manager. Both Arsenal (Pat Rice) and Chelsea (Clarke?) have successfully done something similar.
Absoluetly, but I think he already is part of the set up by making these players ready to step up. Thing is, he may not want to be in the spotlight, and some people like the behind the scenes work. Either way, he's deserved a chance given his time at the club to have a bigger say in first team matters if he wants to. That is hard to disgree with.
From what he's said to date, I think he realises the Club are looking for a bigger name but he'd like to be involved. When asked whether or not he wanted the job he said something along the lines of "let me see how I feel after Saturday". I bet the fella is buzzing.
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I meant to add to my earlier post that if Kevin MacDonald was made assistant manager he could help an incoming manager, particularly if he was foreign, as he knows the ropes having been with the club so long. He could then learn about managing the 1st team as he would be sharing some of the duties.
Eventually, he could then move up to manager in the future, creating the continuity within the club. This was something that MON never developed in the club by just having two coaches, rather than an assistant manager. By having a manager and assistant that are not from 'the same pod', when one leaves the other can stay on.
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I would assume though any incoming manager will bring a backroom team with him. Don't see Macca being given a number 2 role. He may well do, but probably not. Hope whatever happens he remains at the club.
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I would assume though any incoming manager will bring a backroom team with him. Don't see Macca being given a number 2 role. He may well do, but probably not. Hope whatever happens he remains at the club.
I know new coaches like to bring in their own assistants but I'm not sure that extends to Reserve Team Coach. I mean, MacDonald's still here isn't he - he didn't leave with Martin's cronies so he's part of the club. I'm pretty confident he'd keep his coaching job under the new management team.
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just seen him interviewed on SSN, and he reminded me of Saunders.
i would prefer KM to more than 90% of those on the big poll list,
but there are still those who i would pick before him,
the good news is we are in capable hands, and do not need to bring someone in on a panic arangment, so theres no excuse to get it wrong.
my first choice of Martinez is not showing good tonight, but my second of Holloway is looking champion
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Too early to say whether he should get the job yet, but i hope he gets a few more games in the seat to see how the team develops.
Glad he is giving some of the youngsters a chance.
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It's hard to say with only one game, but I voted yes as I hope he gets a few more to prove he belongs there. The players really seemed to respond to him. I wish he would have subbed A. Young a little earlier with a large lead, but overall great game.
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I wouldn't rush into getting a new manager for the sake of it.
We've watched quite a few reserve games over the last couple of season and have thoroughly enjoyed the entertainment and watching the youngsters progress.
I don't know if he's the man for the job but I like watching his entertaining football.
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I just don't think he's going to want the job on a permanent basis, I don't know why but I just don't think he will.
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This is why I went for Klinsmann on the next manager vote. I think he's 'green' enough to accept having Kev Mac as his assistant and taking a lot of advice from him, but he's also a big enough name for people to really take notice. If things then go sour we move KM back into the top job but with a squad hopefully containing a few top rated youngsters from around europe to compliment our own.
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My feeling is that we should not rush into bringing a new manager in just for the sake of it.
It is clear from the "next manager" thread that the difference of opinion ranges right across the spectrum-some like a certain manager and others wouldn't touch him with a barge pole & vice versa.-This tells me that there is no obvious choice out there as there was with the likes of BFR,Little & MON.
I would like to see McD kept on a temorary basis for a while-There is no point bringing someone in just for the sake of it.The dressing room is clearly a happier place & this showed with the teams performance today.
If things started to deteriate at some stage then we could bring a manager in at that time but remember that you can bring a manager in at any stage,unlike players.
As someone else said,it looks like a new manager is comming in but most on here will agree,that list is a crock of shite which is why there is such a differing of opinions.
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Juan Pablo Angel posted this on twitter just:
Outstanding performance by Aston Villa! Delighted for Kevin McDonald he has done an incredible job for the Villa youngsters over the years!
Then
Kevin McDonald should be given an opportunity to be the Manager this season! He has done a tremendous job at Villa for many,many years!
So he's got JPA's vote. Top bloke
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just seen him interviewed on SSN, and he reminded me of Saunders.
I've just watched the BBC interview and thought exactly the same. The understated joy, wry smile, he just needed a long leather black coat.
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Juan Pablo Angel posted this on twitter just:
Outstanding performance by Aston Villa! Delighted for Kevin McDonald he has done an incredible job for the Villa youngsters over the years!
Then
Kevin McDonald should be given an opportunity to be the Manager this season! He has done a tremendous job at Villa for many,many years!
So he's got JPA's vote. Top bloke
Blimey.
I wouldn't mind at all .... he is a Villa man, he understands the game very very well.
Why not give him the role at least til Christmas on a 5 month contract, reveiwed then ?
Rather him than Sven and Bradley.
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Keep Kevin in charge. If it doesn't work out, for whatever reason, I hope he can go back to his reserves job but so far things are looking very good and I am not surprised either.
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I must admit, I am not to sure he wants the job. The interviews from tonight BBC & Sky gave me the impression he really enjoys coaching the reserves and youth and he does not want to risk that.
I like him he is very modest and unassuming, although I am not sure if thaose are great attributed for a top PL manager though.
Anyway, great job Mac!
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I'd say yes keep him as head coach and bring someone in to deal with the actual management side.
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I must admit, I am not to sure he wants the job. The interviews from tonight BBC & Sky gave me the impression he really enjoys coaching the reserves and youth and he does not want to risk that.
The interviews from tonight BBC & Sky gave me the impression he really enjoys coaching. I wouldn't restrict it to the Reserves.
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I must admit, I am not to sure he wants the job. The interviews from tonight BBC & Sky gave me the impression he really enjoys coaching the reserves and youth and he does not want to risk that.
The interviews from tonight BBC & Sky gave me the impression he really enjoys coaching. I wouldn't restrict it to the Reserves.
I agree.
But i'm not sure he has the appetite to be manager because of handling Matchdays, Media, Transfers etc
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Why not. There's no real outstanding candidate at the moment.
See if Kev wants the job until December and then look at things again. You never know what other managers will be available in a couple of months
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It was nice to see villa play with freedom and was very enjoyable to watch,on the other hand Westham where very poor but you still have to take ur chances and win was it down to mac D ? ? well he has 2 or 3 games maybe more to prove him self, a years contract ? whiles randy gets the right man or was that man in the dug out today ? ;)
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He knows the players, their strengths & weaknesses. He's been with the Villa 15 years so he knows the Club from top to bottom. Irrespective of today's excellent result, the season has started and KMac has those crucial attributes that no other potential candidate posseses.
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Not sure he is the right man moving forward. However, fair play to him and you could tell he was very proud to be manager of our great club, resplendent in his suit.
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Just seen this on Juan Pablo Angel's twitter...
"Kevin McDonald should be given an opportunity to be the Manager this season! He has done a tremendous job at Villa for many,many years!"
You can't argue with Juan Pablo... after today's great win you can't see why you'd want to change things after they went so smooth and perfect today. Winning today was great... but HOW we won with our performance makes it even better.
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Watching today was a joy, the players seemed to play with joy, and freedom.
I got the impression they were playing for him, and maybe, they may have a say in his decision?
One thing today has proved, all the doom and gloom merchants were wrong, we will still be up there challenging the top 6 again come May!
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Coaching and managing is not the same. He's a very good coach at reserve level but has never managed. Coaching young players that are trying to make the grade and managing multi-million egos is very different. I'm not saying he couldn't do it, but you could ruin a very good coach by making him manager. He's got to really want it, and it would be a real shame when results don't go our way (because it will happen) that some fans will turn on him. Honeymoon periods never last. There aren't many first time managers that start at the top and survive. A lot of those with successful lower league careers get burnt at the top end of the game.
He's been very good for the club for 15 years, so to appoint him manager on the back of one game would be very foolish in my opinion.
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There are no obvious choices, as such, he deserves to be considered.
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may be too much of a nice guy to get the job. Certainly put down a claim today though. Keep winning like that and it will be up to him...
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Maybe he could do it, don't know, it's just one game.
I think today's win was just a collective "Let's fucking show 'em" from all involved rather than a tactical masterstroke from the (assistant) manager.
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They played with pride, passion, confidence and passed the ball!!! So far so good for KM. He gets my vote for the time being.
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Why not. There's no real outstanding candidate at the moment.
See if Kev wants the job until December and then look at things again. You never know what other managers will be available in a couple of months
Agreed, with no outstanding candidate why not give the guy whose teams have consistently performed well a chance.
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Absolutely, he lives down the road from me.. Keep it local ;-)
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for the life of me i cant remember him playing for Liverpool in the double winning side in 86,
was he a regular first teamer ? what was his position ?
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what was his position ?
Unfortunately for him Steve McMahon's
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If they're going to give it to him, and I'm not against the idea, then they should do it promptly. If we're going to salvage anything from this transfer window we need a manager in place sooner rather than later. Leaving it 3 weeks and then deciding he can have the job would be a dumb thing to do.
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While we play anything like that it at least buys time. A couple of poor performances and/or results immediately gets the worst of the media talking about "turmoil" and "crisis", this results in knee jerk reactions and panic from a certain section of any set of supporters. Right now, he has to be put in the frame along with all the other names being speculated on. Dont rush any decision either way when no rush is required right now.
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If they're going to give it to him, and I'm not against the idea, then they should do it promptly. If we're going to salvage anything from this transfer window we need a manager in place sooner rather than later. Leaving it 3 weeks and then deciding he can have the job would be a dumb thing to do.
I disagree. You are suggesting that such a big long term decison is made now, based on one result, in order for the possibility of signing a player or two as yet unammed who may or may not work out to cover us for 20 or so games between the window closing and re-opening.
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what a croc of horse shit.
Are we a newly promoted side no decent manager would risk, a lower mid table outfit who regularly flirt with relegation that can't find a decent manager so prmote from within. Worse still are we on the downward slope again because randy has no commitment, money or desire to do more than survive in the PL until it suits him to sell. What is it with some fans where do you want and what type of club do you want Villa to be.
Randy appointing McDonald would be a typical Ellis decision and if made would confirm much of the queries raised by those who still have doubts on Randy.
It would never work, it would be a waste of 5 years of investment, and as much as I like the bloke, he had little to do with that performance yesterday, a performance thaat did one thing. It showed the huge potential a top manager has to work with.
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If they're going to give it to him, and I'm not against the idea, then they should do it promptly. If we're going to salvage anything from this transfer window we need a manager in place sooner rather than later. Leaving it 3 weeks and then deciding he can have the job would be a dumb thing to do.
I disagree. You are suggesting that such a big long term decison is made now, based on one result, in order for the possibility of signing a player or two as yet unammed who may or may not work out to cover us for 20 or so games between the window closing and re-opening.
I'm suggesting that if they want to give him the job then just do it rather than fanny around. If not, then get somebody else but uncertainty isn't good for anyone.
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I think they probably will give him the job, but don't think they should. By all means keep him as first team coach to work alongside a new bloke, but really, we need a top manager. Much as I don't like saying it, I don't think KM is a sensible long term choice.
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This from Steve Staunton about Kevin Mac:
“First and foremost he’s a top coach. I worked under him as a player in the early days and he’s as good a coach as I have ever worked with or under.
“There are quite some names on that list, and he’s up with the very best of them.
“He’s honest, he doesn’t take any nonsense, he’s a winner. He demands total commitment of a player, he gets them into a way of playing, not just passing for the sake of passing, it’s done to win a game of football.
“People will wonder if he can man-manage, but look at his record. Villa have won the reserve league three years on the trot and that’s actually one of the most difficult jobs in the game.
“You work with a mixture of eager kids and established players who are unhappy at being dropped from the first team, and if you can blend them into a unit that works hard and wins games then it proves you can handle people.” MacDonald has been behind the scenes at Villa for 15 years, and played a major role in a production line of young talent which has taken the likes of Gabby Agbonlahor and Nathan Delfouneso through to first-team football.
With others like Marc Albrighton, Barry Bannan and Ciaran Clark knocking on the door, and another group that reached last year’s FA Youth Cup Final also coming through, Staunton says that knowledge of the club will be crucial.
He said: “He knows the game inside out, he knows the players inside out, and he has great help alongside him with Tony McAndrew. Plus he was a top player, people forget that. He had four years as part of a terrific Liverpool team in the 1980s – he won the Double with them in 1986.
“And it was only because he unfortunately broke his leg the next year that he didn’t play loads more.”
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He's definitely going to get it. I just fear for the reaction if and when we have a bad spell, or when we're struggling to attract players in January.
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Reserve Team Coach is "one of the most difficult jobs in the game"?
I think that comment demonstrates the intelligence and judgment that have been the hallmark of Staunton's managerial career to date.
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He's definitely going to get it. I just fear for the reaction if and when we have a bad spell, or when we're struggling to attract players in January.
That would be my worry too.
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Whilst I'm not advocating he has the job after one match I would like to point out ot people who says top clubs don't promote from within by mentioning the Liverpool Boot Room for 30 odd years and more recently Pep Guadiola at Barcelona who was Reserve Team coach when he took over from Rikjaard.
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Whilst I'm not advocating he has the job after one match I would like to point out ot people who says top clubs don't promote from within by mentioning the Liverpool Boot Room for 30 odd years and more recently Pep Guadiola at Barcelona who was Reserve Team coach when he took over from Rikjaard.
For each Guardiola or Fagin, it's possible to point to probably half a dozen caretakers who failed. History tells us it is a move than is far more likely to fail than succeed.
I'm not saying it cannot work but the odds are very much stacked against it.
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There's an interview with him this morning in the Mercury (no, i did'nt buy it) and he says that he owes a lot to Brian Little for helping him get into coaching after he retired from playing and they are still quite close.
If he is given the job until say Christmas, maybe brining in Brian as a training ground coach to work with the forwards would be a good idea.
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I can think of managers in the prem with less of a CV than Kevin Mac. I also like the fact that he is Villa and has been for fifteen years. Perhaps he needs a "Director of Football" type personality but with Faulkner playing a major role in transfers even that might not be necessary. This is an experienced manager.
For me it is not simply a reaction to yesterday except that we were all surprised "delighted" even, at the very successful introduction of the youngsters instead of favourites playing out of position and the manner in which the team played, fought, created and most of all enjoyed it.
I would give him until Christmas for sure. At least. We would be remodelling this season even with a "name" manager and perhaps we won't be playing for top four - but Christ it is a breath of fresh air.
The bad spell will happen of course but the fans will see it though if they see the team and coach/manager giving their all.
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The fact that Kevin has never appeared to want a full time managers post in the past 16 years though tends to say that he is happy as just a coach, without the extra baggage that comes with being a manager.
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I can't help but feel we are in danger of really going over the top on yesterday's (brilliant) performance. Just as last year's 0-2 Wigan defeat had no bearing on how the rest of our season would go, yesterday's result is exactly the same. We need to keep our feet on the ground and keep focused.
The only way I think we could judge if KevinMac was the right man for the job would be after ten to twenty matches, surely? Has he the strength of character, say, to lift Villa through a string of defeats or a four-nil thumping? Has he any nous for transfers and buying/selling talent etc.?
What we saw yesterday is something that often happens at clubs when a manager leaves. A member of staff gets promoted on a caretaker basis and the players group together and play their hearts out for him. Remember the run we went on when John Gregory returned for example?
I think we need to give this one a good ten games before we make any hasty decisions. I would still belong to the school of thought that a genuine top class, proven, manager needs to come in and take the club forward.
Here's to more of the same from yesterday, though. Well done Kevin and the Boys.
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I can think of managers in the prem with less of a CV than Kevin Mac.
Successful managers?
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I can think of managers in the prem with less of a CV than Kevin Mac.
Successful managers?
THAT is a very fair question. (seriously). Was O'Neill a "successful Manager". How do we judge a successful Manager for Villa. What exactly are our aims. Champs League on a consistant basis, Silverware? I guess no one wants a mid-table manager, we want ( expect even) a name. Who, Sven? No thanks. I mean who is out there? We can't claim Hiddink can we?
Give KM until Christmas whilst we find that man - if we need him. KM might just be the founder of our 'boot room'.
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I can't help but feel we are in danger of really going over the top on yesterday's (brilliant) performance. Just as last year's 0-2 Wigan defeat had no bearing on how the rest of our season would go, yesterday's result is exactly the same. We need to keep our feet on the ground and keep focused.
The only way I think we could judge if KevinMac was the right man for the job would be after ten to twenty matches, surely? Has he the strength of character, say, to lift Villa through a string of defeats or a four-nil thumping? Has he any nous for transfers and buying/selling talent etc.?
What we saw yesterday is something that often happens at clubs when a manager leaves. A member of staff gets promoted on a caretaker basis and the players group together and play their hearts out for him. Remember the run we went on when John Gregory returned for example?
I think we need to give this one a good ten games before we make any hasty decisions. I would still belong to the school of thought that a genuine top class, proven, manager needs to come in and take the club forward.
Here's to more of the same from yesterday, though. Well done Kevin and the Boys.
All good sensible points but my worry is that if we don't act decisively we write off this transfer window and if we want to have any hope of competing this season then I don't think we can afford to do that.
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Lerner is going to have to bite the bullet on two more players at least. In this window. Ireland will give us the more creative midfielder but a striker? We need a good one NOW. If Lerners position is truly that we have to lower the wage/income ratio - and he is right to confront it on the numbers we have seen- that will take time. So does he restrict or even 'ban' incoming transfers until we have lowered the ratio or does he apply a longer term strategy of wage reduction.
I ask because the decision would apply to any manager. And I can't see a big name, 'successful' manager wanting to work on the condition of a strict and immediate sell to buy policy.
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After the Wrist Ham result, I was all for K-Mac becoming our next manager.
Having had a chance to sleep on it and let the relief/exiliration of not having to watch a joyless MON team subside, a list of pro's/con's comes to the surface.
On the plus side, he knows the players very well (a new manager will take some time to get up to speed).
He's had the MON rejects playing at a level that's won the reserve league so, if we're talking about motivation, surely to God he must leave MON (or rather, the myth) for dead in this regard.
He seems tactically astute.
He's obviously not afraid of youth or substitutions.
As he's been at the club a long time, he clearly has the respect of senior management.
He already has the fans on-side.
On the downside, we've not yet seen how he reacts (at least on a first team level) when things aren't going so well (both during a match and if we go on one of those bad runs). Having said that, we also can't say how any new manager will react either.
He's not had to deal with transfer markets. Obviously, he's inherited players that are off-cuts from the 1st team or have been shunted up a grade from the youth squad. To counter that arguement, I could point at our transfer thread and the knowledge-base there, knowing that his may well be every bit as good.....and he has a senior team to do the negotiating for him.
To be honest, I'd be giving him 6 months. We'll know then whether he's up to it and, indeed, if he even wants it!
Interesting to see he had Tony Mc on his bench (a man highly regarded on these pages) and the discussions seemed (without the ability of lip-reading skills) to be intelligent. I always got the impression with MON and Robertson that exchanges were along the lines of:
Robbo - "What to we do now?"
MON - "Heskey?"
Robbo - "Not Delfouneso?
MON - "No, that's what the want"
Robbo - "There's always Sidwell."
MON - "Don't confuse matters. Just pick one. Surprise me"
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Interesting to see he had Tony Mc on his bench (a man highly regarded on these pages) and the discussions seemed (without the ability of lip-reading skills) to be intelligent. I always got the impression with MON and Robertson that exchanges were along the lines of:
Robbo - "What to we do now?"
MON - "Heskey?"
Robbo - "Not Delfouneso?
MON - "No, that's what the want"
Robbo - "There's always Sidwell."
MON - "Don't confuse matters. Just pick one. Surprise me"
Do I not like that... ?
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I can't help but feel we are in danger of really going over the top on yesterday's (brilliant) performance. Just as last year's 0-2 Wigan defeat had no bearing on how the rest of our season would go, yesterday's result is exactly the same. We need to keep our feet on the ground and keep focused.
The only way I think we could judge if KevinMac was the right man for the job would be after ten to twenty matches, surely? Has he the strength of character, say, to lift Villa through a string of defeats or a four-nil thumping? Has he any nous for transfers and buying/selling talent etc.?
What we saw yesterday is something that often happens at clubs when a manager leaves. A member of staff gets promoted on a caretaker basis and the players group together and play their hearts out for him. Remember the run we went on when John Gregory returned for example?
I think we need to give this one a good ten games before we make any hasty decisions. I would still belong to the school of thought that a genuine top class, proven, manager needs to come in and take the club forward.
Here's to more of the same from yesterday, though. Well done Kevin and the Boys.
All good sensible points but my worry is that if we don't act decisively we write off this transfer window and if we want to have any hope of competing this season then I don't think we can afford to do that.
Yep. A very good point.
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I can't help but feel we are in danger of really going over the top on yesterday's (brilliant) performance. Just as last year's 0-2 Wigan defeat had no bearing on how the rest of our season would go, yesterday's result is exactly the same. We need to keep our feet on the ground and keep focused.
The only way I think we could judge if KevinMac was the right man for the job would be after ten to twenty matches, surely? Has he the strength of character, say, to lift Villa through a string of defeats or a four-nil thumping? Has he any nous for transfers and buying/selling talent etc.?
Let's see how he get's on with the away games too. If we play open expansive football at home, great; away from home might be a tad naive
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http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/08/15/SOCCER_Villa_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=soccer
Petrov has given his backing. Very interesting about the different style of play and KMD thinking we can adapt to playing a different style. As has been said elsewhere, we played with a different freedom and philosophy, as backed up with what Petrov has said.
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Whilst I'm not advocating he has the job after one match I would like to point out ot people who says top clubs don't promote from within by mentioning the Liverpool Boot Room for 30 odd years and more recently Pep Guadiola at Barcelona who was Reserve Team coach when he took over from Rikjaard.
For each Guardiola or Fagin, it's possible to point to probably half a dozen caretakers who failed. History tells us it is a move than is far more likely to fail than succeed.
I'm not saying it cannot work but the odds are very much stacked against it.
I would have to agree with this. As delighted as I am that we obviously have such a good coach, and especially the philosophy he's instilled in the youngsters, you just get the feeling that in the long run it might just unravel and we're forced into a situation where we lose a great coach because we expected a bit too much from him.
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After the Wrist Ham result, I was all for K-Mac becoming our next manager.
Having had a chance to sleep on it and let the relief/exiliration of not having to watch a joyless MON team subside, a list of pro's/con's comes to the surface.
On the plus side, he knows the players very well (a new manager will take some time to get up to speed).
He's had the MON rejects playing at a level that's won the reserve league so, if we're talking about motivation, surely to God he must leave MON (or rather, the myth) for dead in this regard.
He seems tactically astute.
He's obviously not afraid of youth or substitutions.
As he's been at the club a long time, he clearly has the respect of senior management.
He already has the fans on-side.
On the downside, we've not yet seen how he reacts (at least on a first team level) when things aren't going so well (both during a match and if we go on one of those bad runs). Having said that, we also can't say how any new manager will react either.
He's not had to deal with transfer markets. Obviously, he's inherited players that are off-cuts from the 1st team or have been shunted up a grade from the youth squad. To counter that arguement, I could point at our transfer thread and the knowledge-base there, knowing that his may well be every bit as good.....and he has a senior team to do the negotiating for him.
To be honest, I'd be giving him 6 months. We'll know then whether he's up to it and, indeed, if he even wants it!
Interesting to see he had Tony Mc on his bench (a man highly regarded on these pages) and the discussions seemed (without the ability of lip-reading skills) to be intelligent. I always got the impression with MON and Robertson that exchanges were along the lines of:
Robbo - "What to we do now?"
MON - "Heskey?"
Robbo - "Not Delfouneso?
MON - "No, that's what the want"
Robbo - "There's always Sidwell."
MON - "Don't confuse matters. Just pick one. Surprise me"
It's kind of what I was saying yesterday Troy. In my opinon we need to calm down a bit. KM clearly did a top job in a diffuclt week coaching and preparing the players. Additionally he is respected by the players, and if Petrov is publically endorsing him then it will go a long way in the eyes of the owner. However, managing and coaching are very different. Coaching is an important element of managing, but at the top level you have top deal with host of other things that you'd never have to deal with as a coach. The media, fans expectations, the board, dealing with the egos of multi-million pound players, HR issues with your own staff, scouting and transfers, the sponsors requests, league manager meetings, public appearances, your life being made very public. To become a manager with no experience of any of that is difficult enough, let alone at the top level of the game where the expectations will be huge.
We are all pleased now, but we will demand success and we won't be happy, irrespective of how good a bloke KM is, if the results don't come as we expect. It would be a shame if a man with 15 loyal years at the club was to become in any way unpopular. It's also very important that he wants the job and knows what he is getting into and one game won't convince him of that. I'd prefer him to become an assistant manager first, but I would certainly support the choice if he and Randy felt it was the right thing to do having searched and exhausted all other options.
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I'll back up TV totally on that, a stint as an assistant followed by getting the job next time would be my opinion. However I'd rather he got than giving it to the wrong person purely to say we've got a manager.
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I think he needs at least till christmas, we dont need to disrupt things this early in the season.
If we wait till around christmas time, we may have a few more options to choose from, for example if Jol is out of the CL with Ajax, Moyes has a row with the chairman (wishful thinking) etc.
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Roy Aitken did well in keeping things ticking over in the days following O'Numpty's departure but no-one seriously expected him to get the job. The same situation goes for Kevin Mac.
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I really wouldn't want Moyes. Another manager whose press is better than his reality.
Everton are very inconsistant and haven't done any better than us for a few years.
I don't think Moyes would be a massive improvement on anything we have had in recent years.
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I must admit, I am not to sure he wants the job. The interviews from tonight BBC & Sky gave me the impression he really enjoys coaching the reserves and youth and he does not want to risk that.
That's the concern for me too.
You have to want this job, be ambitious enough and determined enough to go through a rough trot when it occurs and still have unwavering belief in your own ability. If you're not sure you want it, you're probably not cut out for it.
I like the noises coming out of VP. The players seem to respect him, want to play for him and he'll know the reserves and youths inside out. Continuity (with a better standard of football) has it's appeal. But I genuinely hope we give him a run of games before we make a decision of this magnitude. Reading what RL said yesterday, it almost sounds like the job is his if he wants it. I think it's way to early to come to that type of decision.
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I must admit, I am not to sure he wants the job. The interviews from tonight BBC & Sky gave me the impression he really enjoys coaching the reserves and youth and he does not want to risk that.
That's the concern for me to.
You have to want this job, be ambitious enough and determined enough to go through a rough trot when it occurs and still have unwavering belief in your own ability. If you're not sure you want it, you're probably not cut out for it.
I like the noises coming out of VP. The players seem to respect him, want to play for him and he'll know the reserves and youths inside out. Continuity (with a better standard of football) has it's appeal. But I genuinely hope we give him a run of games before we make a decision of this magnitude. Reading what RL said yesterday, it almost sounds like the job is his if he wants it. I think it's way to early to come to that type of decision.
I think that as a 50 year old coach of a reserve side,this could be an opportunity to secure his financial future if he was offered the job.
People need to put aside all these romantic notions-These people are in it for money.KM probably has 10 years max left as a coach,earning decent money or maybe 3 years as a manager,earning enough money to retire on.If I was him,I'd take the job if offered-Just as I would move to Man City if I was in Milners shoes.
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Wisdom would say that KM is not the right man to take us forward long term. I have to say that his attitude and the affect on the team and the way they played yesterday made me very proud of Villa. No more did they suffer from the glare of the watchful eye or the overbearing and controlling grip of the supreme headmaster/ critical parent. They played with the potential we know they have. I would give KM and at least another 8 games. In that time we will know what he is made of and if he is the real deal. This would give RL the time to look at more CVs. I thought KM has been awesome this week in front of the media. He has made me very proud of my club.
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I don't know his personal circumstances, but I'd say he's comfortable at this stage.
Being in the game for as long as he has.
Perhaps he just prefers to be out of the spotlight, wouldn't want the negative press after a few bad results, the Barry/ Milner- type scenario's happening on his watch, trying to motivate unresponsive players, copping flak for bad transfers et.c
There is a lot more to consider than financial security.
It's job satisfaction/ peace of mind too.
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During my Villa-watching career we've recruited in-house (or almost) on three occasions. The first time, with Vic Crowe, was eventually a success as the foundations were laid for the following decade's triumphs. The second, with Tony Barton, is difficult to assess objectively. He won the European Cup (I don't think we woud have with Saunders still in charge), was the best scout in football and was also the most decent man imaginable. But whether he did as well as he could at re-building the side and dealing with Doug is another matter altogether. With the benefit of absolute perfect hindsight we should maybe have said "Thanks Tony, you've done a wonderful job but you're a great number two. We're bringing in someone to work over you." But you can't exactly say that to the man who's just won the European Cup.
Then there was John Gregory, who may as well have been regarded as another internal appointment. Like Barton, he had a great start and again, with hindsight, summer 1998 should have seen a thanks and here's a Big Boss to help you.
All these appointments were the safe option. If the last two had been done with a bit more vision, gambling, whatever the word is, history might have been a lot different.
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This is true Dave.
But a new guy might come in, have very different ideas and marginalise some of our younger players. Playing it 'safe' as it were. It could be a very costly error, in many ways.
You could point to Guardiola at Barcelona and even Pigface initially at Leeds (that's likely to be the last time you see those two in the same sentence) as examples of a guy trusting the youth and other unfancied players as he'd worked with them.
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This is true Dave.
But a new guy might come in, have very different ideas and marginalise some of our younger players. Playing it 'safe' as it were. It could be a very costly error, in many ways.
You could point to Guardiola at Barcelona and even Pigface initially at Leeds (that's likely to be the last time you see those two in the same sentence) as examples of a guy trusting the youth and other unfancied players as he'd worked with them.
But equally a new manager should realise what he inherits and make the most of it. Yorke under Little was the best example.
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During my Villa-watching career we've recruited in-house (or almost) on three occasions. The first time, with Vic Crowe, was eventually a success as the foundations were laid for the following decade's triumphs. The second, with Tony Barton, is difficult to assess objectively. He won the European Cup (I don't think we woud have with Saunders still in charge), was the best scout in football and was also the most decent man imaginable. But whether he did as well as he could at re-building the side and dealing with Doug is another matter altogether. With the benefit of absolute perfect hindsight we should maybe have said "Thanks Tony, you've done a wonderful job but you're a great number two. We're bringing in someone to work over you." But you can't exactly say that to the man who's just won the European Cup.
Then there was John Gregory, who may as well have been regarded as another internal appointment. Like Barton, he had a great start and again, with hindsight, summer 1998 should have seen a thanks and here's a Big Boss to help you.
All these appointments were the safe option. If the last two had been done with a bit more vision, gambling, whatever the word is, history might have been a lot different.
Quite possilby I am still bathing in the warm sun of the future without the last manager and that yesterday was like somebody giving me more sangria. All I know that we are in safe hands until the right manager comes along. I feel that we can relax a little and take our time. I think that the future is better than when MON arrived. Or more exciting .
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During my Villa-watching career we've recruited in-house (or almost) on three occasions. The first time, with Vic Crowe, was eventually a success as the foundations were laid for the following decade's triumphs. The second, with Tony Barton, is difficult to assess objectively. He won the European Cup (I don't think we woud have with Saunders still in charge), was the best scout in football and was also the most decent man imaginable. But whether he did as well as he could at re-building the side and dealing with Doug is another matter altogether. With the benefit of absolute perfect hindsight we should maybe have said "Thanks Tony, you've done a wonderful job but you're a great number two. We're bringing in someone to work over you." But you can't exactly say that to the man who's just won the European Cup.
Then there was John Gregory, who may as well have been regarded as another internal appointment. Like Barton, he had a great start and again, with hindsight, summer 1998 should have seen a thanks and here's a Big Boss to help you.
All these appointments were the safe option. If the last two had been done with a bit more vision, gambling, whatever the word is, history might have been a lot different.
Crowe got us out of the 3rd Division-Barton won the European Cup & Gregory had us challenging again.
I would not say they were "safe options" more "steadying options" in which men were bought in who the players wanted to play for.
In all three instances,the reason these men were appointed is because there was no-one suitable who was available at the the time.
There may be some mileage in your claims that the long term effect didn't work but in the short term,all three were great for the AV,just like KM would be.
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The main thing with comparing the situation now with that when Tony Barton took over, is that the job of being a football manager is very different now to then.
I can't help feeling that the transition from reserve team coach (or even first team coach) to manager isn't as smooth as it might have been back then, as there are far more complicating factors to running a football club the size of Villa these days. Agents, uppity players (!!), the media ... there are all sorts of demanding factors to bear in mind.
Does anyone think, for example, that Pat Rice, who has been at Arsenal since the beginning of time, and has been Wenger's assistant for almost as long, will move up when Wenger retires or leaves?
KM seems like a really nice, unassuming, humble bloke (all good personality traits, but not so good in football) but let's remember that yesterday, for all its exhilirating, out-on-parole gloom lifting, was just one match.
The decision Lerner makes now will be for significantly longer, and must be based on far more than the emotion of one day, which is what I suspect is affecting most of us today.
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The main thing with comparing the situation now with that when Tony Barton took over, is that the job of being a football manager is very different now to then.
I can't help feeling that the transition from reserve team coach (or even first team coach) to manager isn't as smooth as it might have been back then, as there are far more complicating factors to running a football club the size of Villa these days. Agents, uppity players (!!), the media ... there are all sorts of demanding factors to bear in mind.
Does anyone think, for example, that Pat Rice, who has been at Arsenal since the beginning of time, and has been Wenger's assistant for almost as long, will move up when Wenger retires or leaves?
KM seems like a really nice, unassuming, humble bloke (all good personality traits, but not so good in football) but let's remember that yesterday, for all its exhilirating, out-on-parole gloom lifting, was just one match.
The decision Lerner makes now will be for significantly longer, and must be based on far more than the emotion of one day, which is what I suspect is affecting most of us today.
Very true.
But yesterday was nice and pure. Almost like the old Holte was back. Warm glow and all of that.
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I honestly could not believe the feeling yesterday. Even before kick-off there was a real all in it together feeling of liberation. No visible support for Martin O'Neill and no antipathy towards the board.
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I honestly could not believe the feeling yesterday. Even before kick-off there was a real all in it together feeling of liberation. No visible support for Martin O'Neill and no antipathy towards the board.
Before the match, I was absolutely convinced that there would be at least a few choruses of "Martin O'Neill" from the Holte, and that tensions would be high between those supporting him, and those supporting the board, but there was absolutely none of it at all.
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I honestly could not believe the feeling yesterday. Even before kick-off there was a real all in it together feeling of liberation. No visible support for Martin O'Neill and no antipathy towards the board.
Before the match, I was absolutely convinced that there would be at least a few choruses of "Martin O'Neill" from the Holte, and that tensions would be high between those supporting him, and those supporting the board, but there was absolutely none of it at all.
How it should be.
Like Villa Park was made for.
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It is going to be nice to hear Villa Park or Villa or Aston Villa, without the reference to MON's Villa etc etc......................
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This is true Dave.
But a new guy might come in, have very different ideas and marginalise some of our younger players. Playing it 'safe' as it were. It could be a very costly error, in many ways.
You could point to Guardiola at Barcelona and even Pigface initially at Leeds (that's likely to be the last time you see those two in the same sentence) as examples of a guy trusting the youth and other unfancied players as he'd worked with them.
It's up to Randy to hire someone with similar ideas and philosophy to K Mac, and would like to work with him in bringing through the young players. After all, only a moron would not want KM around to advise him about the young players he - and Sid and McAndrew - know so well.
I agree with Dave, the option known as the "safe" option is never actually safe. I always think of when Menzies Campbell became leader of the Lib Dems; he was seen as the "safe pair of hands", but in politics, like football, going for a safety-first approach actually puts you on the back foot and loses momentum, the most important thing to have.
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Clearly Randy has a lot of time for KM. Even if he doesn't get the main job, he has a job for life at the club. If he wants to be part of the main show under another manager then that is something that will be negotiated as part of any deal. KM in my opinon should be the short term cosy blanket over the club, and we should hire a proper manager that has experience enough to move us to the next level.
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Clearly Randy has a lot of time for KM. Even if he doesn't get the main job, he has a job for life at the club. If he wants to be part of the main show under another manager then that is something that will be negotiated as part of any deal. KM in my opinon should be the short term cosy blanket over the club, and we should hire a proper manager that has experience enough to move us to the next level.
I agree with this-Would you want any of the proposed candidates to take over though?
I think we should wait untill the right person becomes available & untill such time,KM should hold the fort.
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Clearly Randy has a lot of time for KM. Even if he doesn't get the main job, he has a job for life at the club. If he wants to be part of the main show under another manager then that is something that will be negotiated as part of any deal. KM in my opinon should be the short term cosy blanket over the club, and we should hire a proper manager that has experience enough to move us to the next level.
I agree with this-Would you want any of the proposed candidates to take over though?
I think we should wait untill the right person becomes available & untill such time,KM should hold the fort.
For sure. Thing is there are candidates that are reportedly linked with the job, and then there are those that will have applied that we don't know about. I mean who'd have known we'd have Maradona wanting to manage Villa a day or so ago, as ludicrous as it sounds. From the list, Jol is first choice for me, but I'd also be willing to give Sven a shot as a mentor of sorts to KM. After that from the names we seem to know, it's anyone's guess as to how well they'd do whether they are even really candidates. I mean, Curbishley's never getting the job is he?
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Spot the difference:
MacDonald's approach to the job has been impressive ever since he stepped up from reserve-team duties last Monday. He introduced changes to training by working closely with the side that would start against West Ham, rather than keeping everyone waiting until the day of the game to find out who was playing (as was the case under O'Neill) and he got his team selection spot on.
Pundits said it was impossible to play James Milner because of the distraction of his proposed transfer to Manchester City but MacDonald's faith in the midfielder was vindicated and his decision to include a couple of academy graduates, Ciaran Clark and Marc Albrighton, brought instant reward. But perhaps the most impressive aspect of Saturday's display was the tactical change that allowed Villa to play as if the shackles had come off.
"Every manager has a different style and Kev has a different vision on how we can play, and we showed we can be faster and play with more freedom," Petrov said. "We are moving the ball quicker. We try to hurt teams, not just play on the counterattack, and we created a lot of chances. It could have been a different result, not just 3-0. He gives us a new way to play, more freedom, and when you know exactly what you need to do, it makes it easier to perform."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/16/kevin-macdonald-aston-villa
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It was so noticeable that thing about moving the ball quicker. You could just see it, that if there was no direct option on they would pass it, see if someone else could do it. Only Luke Young didn't really do this enough, and maybe this can be worked on.
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Agreed Monty. The irony is last season I was calling for MON to get KMac working with the first team squad and he actually invited him in the summer to join up with Robertson and Walford pre-season. Those that have seen the Reserves in action will not have been that surprised with the way we played on Saturday. He's a bloody good coach.
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Agreed. Whether he becomes permanent manager or not (I would prefer not, so as to keep him out of the limelight and the pressure off him) he has to be a key voice in our coaching set up.
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I'd hate it to end in tears, he seems such a decent chap. A first team coaching position rather than manager would be my choice.
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Lets see how we get on in Vienna and against Newcastle first.
If we keep up the style of play and the results, then it may be something worth considering for a few months if no suitable manager can be found in that time.
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You know, I'm starting to think of Klinnsman and K Mac being a sort of dream team. It would be a lot like Klinnsman and Loew with the German national team, with the bringing through of youth players and coaching teamwork. Would they wear matching suits though? It remains to be seen.
It's a funny one, because Loew's role within that team was understated in 2006, and now Klinnsman's is being understated now Loew's been a success without him. Fact remains they drew up the strategy together, and with the other coaches, and it's a strategy much like K Mac's and Randy's. It really does look an option to me, but I know others have different views of Klinnsman.
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KMac said in one of his interviews that he loves coaching and in an ideal world we'd bring in a proven manager who promotes Kevin as a first team coach. As has been said, managing is a different kettle of fish - judging from Randy's oddly straight-talking quotes in the Sunday Mail interview (or whatever paper it was), it sounds like he's going to offer KM the job. Asking him what he should do re Milner, aware that the transfer window is ticking and he, Lerner, could spend the last fortnight of it sorting out buys and sells, happy that the squad respect MacDonald.
I want Ranieri, but I doubt that's very likely even if he might feel he has a point to prove in England. I can't see Roma, whom he has rejuvenated, being too accomodating if we were to enquire.
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True, Ranieri's not leaving Roma. Romanisti are strange creatures - see Totti, De Rossi, Bruno Conti - and Claudio Ranieri is definitely a Romanisto.
We need a coach who likes working with young players, who has a pass-and-move philosophy, both of which complement K Mac's coaching abilities.
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Clearly Randy has a lot of time for KM. Even if he doesn't get the main job, he has a job for life at the club. If he wants to be part of the main show under another manager then that is something that will be negotiated as part of any deal. KM in my opinon should be the short term cosy blanket over the club, and we should hire a proper manager that has experience enough to move us to the next level.
I agree with this-Would you want any of the proposed candidates to take over though?
I think we should wait untill the right person becomes available & untill such time,KM should hold the fort.
For sure. Thing is there are candidates that are reportedly linked with the job, and then there are those that will have applied that we don't know about. I mean who'd have known we'd have Maradona wanting to manage Villa a day or so ago, as ludicrous as it sounds. From the list, Jol is first choice for me, but I'd also be willing to give Sven a shot as a mentor of sorts to KM. After that from the names we seem to know, it's anyone's guess as to how well they'd do whether they are even really candidates. I mean, Curbishley's never getting the job is he?
Out of the likely candidates,I feel Jol is the best bet however he doesn't strike me with the excitement I felt when MON or BFR joined.I think Sven is possibly a tad too old now & not as hungry as he once was.It would be a fantastic idea to bring him in as some sort of mentor to KM though,even in the short term.As the General stated-Whoever is appointed will upset some quaters of our support.I just hope the fans back the new manager as I'm sure they will.
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I voted yes based on the game Saturday and the fact that I think he'd do a good job. For me if he wins the next two games I think you HAVE to give it to him.
Taking a step back, I would say that if we are cutting back spending then we'll be going largely with the players we already have, plus the kids coming through. With his knowledge of the club, players and youth set up, who better than Kevin Mac under those circumstances? The existing players seem to like and respect him, so I don't think anyone else we would realistically get would do a better. However, if we are going out and spending he has no track record in signing or recruiting players and is he a 'name' to attract top quality?
I hope randy sees it this way aswell. Kevin Mac if we're not signing players, someone else if we are!
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I spent a couple of seasons at Walsall when Kev was at the end of his career and I was starting out. His legs were knackered but he was a top player and carried a lot of respect from those around him. There were other 'old timers' like Derek Statham and Wayne Clarke who were also in the team but Kev was the gaffer.
I was in the Youth/Reserves at the time and he would b0ll0ck you when you screwed up in a game/training but he was one f the only ones that would also have a quiet word of advice for you off the pitch too. My experience of him is that he is a top bloke and a real football man.
He is very well liked at the Villa and he also believes in passing footbal, which would be a nice change.
I hope he stays at the club in some capacity.
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One swallow doesn't make a summer, and the note of caution I would sound would be that we know that KMac is a fine coach but what happens when we're on that crap run in the winter or the spring? Then, we'll all be cursing him for not having the experience and when we reach the transfer window, will we be wishing we had a higher profile coach to attract players? He seems too decent a bloke to take the brickbats, and for that selfish reason alone, I'd want him to step back in favour of a man more experienced.
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i think if KMac had wanted to be a manager he would have gone before now to a lower league club. He has the credentials to have been poached by now. I think he is actually happier being a coach , so the idea of him and an experienced Manager appeals more to me, than solely him as our manager.
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I think ideally MacDonald wants to be the first team coach or assistant manager, ie involved with the players day to day on the training ground. I don't believe he wants to be the manager and deal with the press, the board and all the negotiations on signing players and contracts etc.
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I think ideally MacDonald wants to be the first team coach or assistant manager, ie involved with the players day to day on the training ground. I don't believe he wants to be the manager and deal with the press, the board and all the negotiations on signing players and contracts etc.
I don't know the bloke or the situation, but it looks like another Sbragia, who was promoted 'cos Sunderland were out of options, proved to be a success but jumped at the first available opportunity to get back to doing what he did best. Some people just don't like the limelight and that's fine.
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The longer he succeeds in his caretaker role the more likely he is of getting the job. Now, he may well be happy as a coach, but now that he has had a taste of the managerial role there may well be no going back. A few more wins in the same attacking style means he's a very strong candidate. We might need to appoint him permanently or lose him to somebody else who thinks he could do a job.
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The longer he succeeds in his caretaker role the more likely he is of getting the job. Now, he may well be happy as a coach, but now that he has had a taste of the managerial role there may well be no going back. A few more wins in the same attacking style means he's a very strong candidate. We might need to appoint him permanently or lose him to somebody else who thinks he could do a job.
There might be an unbridgeable gap between him being offered the job and him taking it though. And if that's the case I can't see another Prem team succeeding where we failed. If he wants to go to a lower division and try his hand there first then good luck to him, but we can't make up his mind for him.
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Nice little insight there, Barry. Cheers.
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One swallow doesn't make a summer, and the note of caution I would sound would be that we know that KMac is a fine coach but what happens when we're on that crap run in the winter or the spring? Then, we'll all be cursing him for not having the experience and when we reach the transfer window, will we be wishing we had a higher profile coach to attract players? He seems too decent a bloke to take the brickbats, and for that selfish reason alone, I'd want him to step back in favour of a man more experienced.
I agree with that. Also, coaching players in the reserves is one thing. Dealing with a pissed off first team player, like say Collins and Cuellar who can't get a game is another.
I'm not saying I'd be upset if he did get the chance, but to do so after one game would be madness.
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You don't give it him because of one game, you give it him on the same criteria of the other managers in the frame, which is who would be best for Aston Villa. The only thing is he's just given quite a convincing audition for the job, which the other candidates have not!
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Kevin MacDonald is the new favourite in the Next Aston Villa Manager Betting Odds following his side’s impressive 3-0 win over West Ham on Saturday. It seems that performance could be enough to give the caretaker the job on a permanent basis, or at least more time to prove himself in the role.
Kevin MacDonald Lets The Results Do The Talking
What made Saturday’s win all the more impressive was the fact that MacDonald was able to integrate a number of promising youngsters into his side and that will surely have caught the attention of spend shy chairman Randy Lerner. MacDonald is now the most likely Next Aston Villa Manager and he can be backed at 7/4 currently with VC Bet, Ladbrokes and Blue Square. In what looks a three horse race he is beginning to look a very strong bet.
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Lets hope he's not new manager if he's willing to treat europe like MON did!
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Im not getting carried away but quite a few players have allready said hes more of a man manager than O'Neill which is a really good trait to have ...the players trust him and you know deep down he would love the job but as many people have correcly pointed out has he got the required skill set to bring in players or even sell the club as well as other managers....I quite wanted to see a foreign manager for a change to see if we could maybe bring in a few rough diamonds from abroad but the squad seems quite happy and maybe Stephen Ireland is the last signing anyway........all will be revealed no doubt but good luck to KMAC and everyone is behind him which is great to see, he lifted the club last week with his brave tactical decisions and has given most of us a bit more hope !
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Lets hope he's not new manager if he's willing to treat europe like MON did!
so you already don't trust him? Great. I suppose he should give each of us a call regarding team selections in the future. I mean, what if he's confident in the players? I hope our lads don't wave the white flag tonight like some fans are.
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If Jol has ruled himself out (I haven't seen it myself) then I think it's going to be MacDonald almost by default because there don't seem to be any credible alternatives at the moment. I'm discounting some of the more fanciful names because they are not going to come here to help us reduce spending.
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Im not getting carried away but quite a few players have allready said hes more of a man manager than O'Neill which is a really good trait to have ...the players trust him and you know deep down he would love the job but as many people have correcly pointed out has he got the required skill set to bring in players or even sell the club as well as other managers....I quite wanted to see a foreign manager for a change to see if we could maybe bring in a few rough diamonds from abroad but the squad seems quite happy and maybe Stephen Ireland is the last signing anyway........all will be revealed no doubt but good luck to KMAC and everyone is behind him which is great to see, he lifted the club last week with his brave tactical decisions and has given most of us a bit more hope !
Of course the players are going to praise him, they want to get picked. If we bring in another manager they'll soon be saying how excited they are by his appointment. That's not to say MacDonald isn't a good candidate but rather that you cannot take soundbites from players too seriously .
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I would agree that all of the 'candidates' dont exactly enthuse me but, and i hope im wrong, I just see K-Mac's appointment ending in tears.
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I still think we could tempt a Pellegrini type.
Thing is, if we play like we did on Sat on a regular basis at home and finish 6th ish doing so, then let Kevin Mac have the job. Let him bring a couple of his own men in before the window shuts (Flamini preferably!) and get on with the season ahead.
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Sad to say but all players (bar the odd one) are mercenaries and will suck up to whoever is in charge.
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I don't buy into this theory that K-Mac getting the job and failing would put us back 2 or 3 years. What I'd be thinking is:-
Spending is being cut and we're going to try and get the wagebill down. That means working with what we have and he's the best placed man to do that. So give him a year's contract. If he does well then give him a longer deal and lend him spend next summer (when the wages will be down and the incoming fees still available) and if not then get a new manager with the enticement of a decent kitty to spend. Worst case scenario is it goes wrong to the point where we have to sack him and get a new man in, which would be no different to where we are now.
To me it's a no lose scenario!
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I like Kevin, and think he'd do as good a job as anybody we could realistically appoint at this late stage.
Is it just me though who thinks he looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights when interviewed? It strikes me that he'd be perfectly happy coaching the first team, but all the other associated managerial requirements like dealing with transfers, and giving TV interviews etc, I'm not so sure.
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So get a media friendly assistant and let them do that!
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I think he's ice cool and that comes across in interviews. Also, because he's not wary of the media yet as he might become, he's refreshingly candid.
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He just doesn't seem to have the necessary insanity to be a manager. If he's wondering whether or not he should do it, these days that really means you shouldn't do it. You need to be mad, you need to be driven, you need to be able to say "f**k you media, I don't care if you're intrusive or whatever, I just want to manage". The comments about his family were particularly illuminating, as were his constant assertions that he "just likes training with the players", because those comments indicate that he likes the quieter, behind-the-scenes role, and to be the permanent manager at a big club like the Villa these days you've just got to want it more than this or you won't survive. If he gets on a bad run of results I'm not sure he'd know how to respond.
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positive result tonight and a win against Newcastle and he'll get the job, I reckon.
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Does he have the neccessary UEFA licences and badges to manage ?
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Does he have the neccessary UEFA licences and badges to manage ?
I can't believe for a second that somebody who has coached as long as he has doesn't have all his badges. Not being qualified only seems to be a problem when teams appoint an ex-player who has never coached before.
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I keep hearing things like "how would he respond to a string of bad results" and "how would he deal with the media".
I would expect him to react through tactics and motivation which are two traits he has in abundance.
And as for the media, I couldn't care less. As long as he's doing his job, which is winning as many matches as possible, does it matter? He's already shown a calm presence in front of the cameras in any case.
Also, the fact he is considering his family first reinforces to me he is exactly the sort of person we need right now.
I dont want somebody insane, thanks. I want somebody to settle us down, get the players together and play some good stuff. I've always been a fan of how his teams play too although this is a bigger ask.
I'm not saying I'm certain he'll do well but I'd like him to have a shot at it. If he fails or doesnt want it enough, there will be loads of nutters waiting in the wings. Right now, the team, the club, needs continuity and stability and to me K mac represents that.
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If Jol has ruled himself out (I haven't seen it myself) then I think it's going to be MacDonald almost by default because there don't seem to be any credible alternatives at the moment. I'm discounting some of the more fanciful names because they are not going to come here to help us reduce spending.
I must be reading different posts from the General to you, Chris.
My understanding is we want to remove off the wage list those players that never or rarely get selected and are paid high wages.
In return that money is to be given to those players "that deserve it". Included in this catagory are I suspect existing and new players.
I don't think it's not so much to reduce spending, rather to reduce waste. Too completely different things.
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Maz, you need to be mad to be a manager. Maybe you couldn't care less about the media, but he certainly would if they start slating him, making him into some sort of joke on TV and in the papers while his kids watch on. They're honestly like jackals, as you know, and they'll turn in a heartbeat, and he'll get under stress and his ability and desire to perform may suffer. That's the kind of thing you have to be a little bit mad to not care about going through, and if you don't have the madness you might not be cut out for it.
As for stabilising the club, I really want to know what that means. Does it mean pushing on, going forward? Does it mean a season of transition? Honestly, I don't know what it means. What looks like continuity and stability one minute looks like stagnation and a loss of momentum the next.
His tactics, motivation and above all coaching skills are second to none, so he must be an important member of the set up, possibly the most important after the manager. But being the manager is very different to being the coach, however senior, and I don't think he's quite cut out for that sort of slog.
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Good post, Monty.
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You dont have to be mad to be a manager and I'd sooner the next one wasn't.
MON was eccentric enough and the squad were fractious and demotivated. What they need right now is a calm head in control. One they trust. Thats what I mean by stability. And continuity because they have been working with him for some time already.
You can always ignore the media you know. I think he's plenty wily enough to do just that too.
They're always talking bollocks so why let it affect you?
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I must admit that I have said all along that I would like to see an experienced man take the job.
But, after seeing the way KM has conducted himself this week, and the interviews he has given, he has really impressed and I think that just maybe here is a bloke that could grow into the job.
Whatever happens, I think we are in good hands until a final decision is made, one way or the other.
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If Jol has ruled himself out (I haven't seen it myself) then I think it's going to be MacDonald almost by default because there don't seem to be any credible alternatives at the moment. I'm discounting some of the more fanciful names because they are not going to come here to help us reduce spending.
I must be reading different posts from the General to you, Chris.
My understanding is we want to remove off the wage list those players that never or rarely get selected and are paid high wages.
In return that money is to be given to those players "that deserve it". Included in this catagory are I suspect existing and new players.
I don't think it's not so much to reduce spending, rather to reduce waste. Too completely different things.
Yes, I agree with this.
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MON was eccentric enough and the squad were fractious and demotivated.
Whilst not a fan of his football, I've never seen his team give less than 100%. We must be the most hard working team in the league. MON deserves credit for that.
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He doesn't actually strike me as that wily, that's the problem. He strikes me as incredibly good-natured, possibly a little shy and rather private and guarded. As Paulie said a while back, maybe too nice. That just doesn't strike me as an ideal recipe for being a top-flight manager.
You've clarified what you mean by stability, so I'll clarify what I mean by mad. I don't mean eccentric, like MON, because he was sometimes borderline certifiable. I mean this type of insane drive that means you just have to keep going, a need to succeed to coin a horrible jargon-like phrase. Ferguson is the epitome of this; when he was asked what he'd do if he won a 19th title to overtake Liverpool, he replied "try and win a 20th". I just don't see enough of that kind of character in K Mac, which probably makes him a much nicer man than Ferguson, but not a manager.
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MON was eccentric enough and the squad were fractious and demotivated.
Whilst not a fan of his football, I've never seen his team give less than 100%. We must be the most hard working team in the league. MON deserves credit for that.
I didn't say lazy, I said demotivated.
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If Jol has ruled himself out (I haven't seen it myself) then I think it's going to be MacDonald almost by default because there don't seem to be any credible alternatives at the moment. I'm discounting some of the more fanciful names because they are not going to come here to help us reduce spending.
I must be reading different posts from the General to you, Chris.
My understanding is we want to remove off the wage list those players that never or rarely get selected and are paid high wages.
In return that money is to be given to those players "that deserve it". Included in this catagory are I suspect existing and new players.
I don't think it's not so much to reduce spending, rather to reduce waste. Too completely different things.
No, not completely different but two interdependent things. In order to pay the wages of new players we need to get others off the wage bill first. In addition the wages to turnover ratio has to be realigned.
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MON was eccentric enough and the squad were fractious and demotivated.
Whilst not a fan of his football, I've never seen his team give less than 100%. We must be the most hard working team in the league. MON deserves credit for that.
I didn't say lazy, I said demotivated.
Agreed, that's an important difference. It's quite possible to give everything as much out of fear as out of desire, but you'll always end up less inspired and imaginative that way.
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If Jol has ruled himself out (I haven't seen it myself) then I think it's going to be MacDonald almost by default because there don't seem to be any credible alternatives at the moment. I'm discounting some of the more fanciful names because they are not going to come here to help us reduce spending.
I must be reading different posts from the General to you, Chris.
My understanding is we want to remove off the wage list those players that never or rarely get selected and are paid high wages.
In return that money is to be given to those players "that deserve it". Included in this catagory are I suspect existing and new players.
I don't think it's not so much to reduce spending, rather to reduce waste. Too completely different things.
Yes, I agree with this.
As per the question I posted to the General earlier today, we can't stop the 'waste' by spreading the wages around less players AND address the ratio to turnover position. So which is the problem - total wages or who they're going to?
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He doesn't actually strike me as that wily, that's the problem. He strikes me as incredibly good-natured, possibly a little shy and rather private and guarded. As Paulie said a while back, maybe too nice. That just doesn't strike me as an ideal recipe for being a top-flight manager.
You've clarified what you mean by stability, so I'll clarify what I mean by mad. I don't mean eccentric, like MON, because he was sometimes borderline certifiable. I mean this type of insane drive that means you just have to keep going, a need to succeed to coin a horrible jargon-like phrase. Ferguson is the epitome of this; when he was asked what he'd do if he won a 19th title to overtake Liverpool, he replied "try and win a 20th". I just don't see enough of that kind of character in K Mac, which probably makes him a much nicer man than Ferguson, but not a manager.
I dont see there being a Holotype for a premier league manager. It takes all sorts I suppose.
Also, I dont know enough about what drives Kevin MacDonald (I'm not sure any of us here do) but I do know the players love him and that he's tactically sound and a great motivator. That will do for me. They're the core principles I want in a manager.
I think we get hung up on terms like manager and coach and what seperates them.
It may be that he isnt up to it. I just dont see any justification for that reasoning right now.
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If Jol has ruled himself out (I haven't seen it myself) then I think it's going to be MacDonald almost by default because there don't seem to be any credible alternatives at the moment. I'm discounting some of the more fanciful names because they are not going to come here to help us reduce spending.
I must be reading different posts from the General to you, Chris.
My understanding is we want to remove off the wage list those players that never or rarely get selected and are paid high wages.
In return that money is to be given to those players "that deserve it". Included in this catagory are I suspect existing and new players.
I don't think it's not so much to reduce spending, rather to reduce waste. Too completely different things.
Yes, I agree with this.
As per the question I posted to the General earlier today, we can't stop the 'waste' by spreading the wages around less players AND address the ratio to turnover position. So which is the problem - total wages or who they're going to?
I think the problem always was "value for money". I think Randy can manage the wage bill and increase turnover to cope accordingly, but if this wage bill is going on players that are not playing, not representing value for money, then there's a problem.
Its like running a haulage firm and having six or seven trucks driving around doing nothing.
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If Jol has ruled himself out (I haven't seen it myself) then I think it's going to be MacDonald almost by default because there don't seem to be any credible alternatives at the moment. I'm discounting some of the more fanciful names because they are not going to come here to help us reduce spending.
I must be reading different posts from the General to you, Chris.
My understanding is we want to remove off the wage list those players that never or rarely get selected and are paid high wages.
In return that money is to be given to those players "that deserve it". Included in this catagory are I suspect existing and new players.
I don't think it's not so much to reduce spending, rather to reduce waste. Too completely different things.
Yes, I agree with this.
As per the question I posted to the General earlier today, we can't stop the 'waste' by spreading the wages around less players AND address the ratio to turnover position. So which is the problem - total wages or who they're going to?
I think the problem always was "value for money". I think Randy can manage the wage bill and increase turnover to cope accordingly, but if this wage bill is going on players that are not playing, not representing value for money, then there's a problem.
Its like running a haulage firm and having six or seven trucks driving around doing nothing.
Don't agree, from reading their comments in recent weeks they want a lower wage bill full stop.
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Which comments specifically?
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Which comments specifically?
I don't care enough to go trawling around looking for them but Randy's stuff about staying within our means and the General's about wages to turnover.
I also think Risso once mentioned something about our wage bill being higher than Spurs but I might be mistaken on that. <wink>
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I think the problem always was "value for money". I think Randy can manage the wage bill and increase turnover to cope accordingly, but if this wage bill is going on players that are not playing, not representing value for money, then there's a problem.
Its like running a haulage firm and having six or seven trucks driving around doing nothing.
I think that's where we differ.
I don't think the turnover can be increased, or at least not immediately, to the point where the ratio is where they want it to be. So are simply paying the same total to different players and rotating them more will not do the job. I think they want it utilised better, but also reduced.
From a purely financial point of view, would Randy still see it as a problem if Martin had used the squad more last season? I think he would have done!
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If luke and reo coker are being used then that's fair enough- I can see randy being worried paying big wages to players who rarely kick a ball but now o neill is gone I think luke and nige both will get a fair crack and save us replacing them.
Heskey , sidwell and davies however can all go and would clear the wage bill enough to maybe get in another striker and midfielder maybe.
keV mac will know keane from his Irish coaching but with Defoe injured harry might not part with him now , I'd like another one or two players in if possible but if not we have a decent squad and players will not be frozen out now o neill has finally gone!
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Which comments specifically?
I don't care enough to go trawling around looking for them but Randy's stuff about staying within our means and the General's about wages to turnover.
I also think Risso once mentioned something about our wage bill being higher than Spurs but I might be mistaken on that. <wink>
Chris, that's not what he said at all. What's been suggested is that the current wage bill has got out of hand as it relates to turnover. Additionally it was a growing concern that we had spent good money on players that weren't playing. Paying hefty wages on players that provided limited return. My belief is that the board just wants to bring this under control as it relates to our place in the game which is financially responsible.
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Rumours down Villa... Koeman could be the one...
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Rumours down Villa... Koeman could be the one...
Do I not like that.
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If it is Koeman, I'd say lets give him a chance and see what extra he can bring to us.
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I don't know enough about his management to comment, but you can guarantee foreign signings. Seems like an up and coming manager, and he was a seriously top player.
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Rumours down Villa... Koeman could be the one...
Do I not like that.
Me neither. His record in management is really poor.
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I also think Risso once mentioned something about our wage bill being higher than Spurs but I might be mistaken on that. <wink>
I may have mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.
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He's bounced around a bit, but his record isn't the worst I've ever seen
Ajax:
Eredivisie: 2001–02, 2003–04
KNVB Cup: 2002
Johan Cruijff Shield: 2002
Benfica:
SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira: 2005
PSV:
Eredivisie: 2006–07
Valencia:
Copa del Rey: 2008
AZ
Johan Cruijff Shield: 2009
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Didn't he manage Benfica Mark? I seem to remember him taking them from champions to third and getting knocked out of the cup by Guimarăes.
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You know, I'm starting to think of Klinnsman and K Mac being a sort of dream team. It would be a lot like Klinnsman and Loew with the German national team, with the bringing through of youth players and coaching teamwork. Would they wear matching suits though? It remains to be seen.
It's a funny one, because Loew's role within that team was understated in 2006, and now Klinnsman's is being understated now Loew's been a success without him. Fact remains they drew up the strategy together, and with the other coaches, and it's a strategy much like K Mac's and Randy's. It really does look an option to me, but I know others have different views of Klinnsman.
Pretty much felt this from the outset.
Jol or similar might provide a steady hand at the till, but I have a feeling we'd be in a similar place in 3/4 years.
Klinsmann could provide that innovation that might help us bridge the gap between ourselves and sides with more money. As an international manager he'd be well used to working with what he's got. It's not as if you can go out and buy a forward if you don't have exactly the type you're looking for. You fit the formation around what you currently possess.
Not suggesting that as some kind of invite for us to pull up the drawbridge and not spend, mind. It would be a waste to have someone of his profile and not exploit that re player recruitment.
As you mentioned, there seems to be a bit of revisionism going on here and elsewhere about his contribution to the revival of German football. Loew was his choice, and the DFB and German supporters in general wanted him to stay on after WC 2006. Loew was the next best option.
I'm not particularly worried about his experience at Bayern either. Not winning a league title with them doesn't automatically mean he's doomed to failure everywhere else. Different sized clubs = different expectations.
Klinsmann as the figurehead, the brains of the operation with Kevin Mac still in the background and having a vital role working with the players could be the ideal scenario.
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Agree completely, Kevin. I'd be very excited to see that coaching team.
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Didn't he manage Benfica Mark? I seem to remember him taking them from champions to third and getting knocked out of the cup by Guimarăes.
He did, briefly. Took over them when champions, replacing Trapattoni. It was all downhill after that. They managed to win the equivalent of the Charity Shield and had a decent run in the CL but that was it. I seem to remember he had some strange ideas about tactics. Nobody here missed him when he pissed off to PSV.
Somebody mentioned him being an up and coming manager. I'd say he's on his way out. great player, shit coach.
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Rumours down Villa... Koeman could be the one...
Do I not like that.
Nor the man who told me , as he will probably lose his job... Koeman will bring his own men in.. If Koeman is interested , he thinks the board will give it to him
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Koeman? In all the threads we've had over the last couple of years - all the "Go on then, who should our next manager be?" threads - I don't think Koeman's name has come up once. I don't think promoting Kevin MacDonald is the way to go but I'd prefer that to Koeman.
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Koeman? In all the threads we've had over the last couple of years - all the "Go on then, who should our next manager be?" threads - I don't think Koeman's name has come up once. I don't think promoting Kevin MacDonald is the way to go but I'd prefer that to Koeman.
Me too, as I wont be able to get any Info from VP no more...
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i'd go for jol. Koeman or riijkard. I'm not a dutch lover or anything haha but i think they'd all do well here. I dont think kev mac would be a success to be honest i just dont think he'd have enough up his sleeve. Saying that though on ssn it says macs meeting lerner to discuss transfer targets so must mean something.
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Imagine Ronald Keoman and Graham Taylor working together LOL.
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I'm starting to feel very torn on this. MacDonald has done brilliantly. The team looks very united and they are playing some really good football. The problem is, I like a manager to lead, be decisive and be confident and Mac doesn't gome across in that way.
I know he doesn't want to presume to think he is a candidate. But I don't like the way he keeps saying he is not sure if he wants the job. He could instead say in interviews that it is up to the owner and blank the question. Its a shame because he is doing brilliantly at the moment.
I'm just not sure...
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An ITK on another site is saying that Klinsmann was interviewed at the weekend and it's between him and KMac.
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An ITK on another site is saying that Klinsmann was interviewed at the weekend and it's between him and KMac.
Which one where?
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I'm edging towards thinking the job's Kevin's if he wants it. Whether he wants it is the big question.
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I'm edging towards thinking the job's Kevin's if he wants it. Whether he wants it is the big question.
I don't think he looks that comfortable, but then to be fair, he was probably just getting ready to prepare the kids and reserves for the new season, then all of a sudden, wham, he's manager, having to give interviews, sorting out the team for the new Premier League season and Europe, all inside two weeks.
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I really think the club needs to act ambitiously at this point. This is a pivotal decision, and I don't think appointing from within is going to work.
I'm also - from what I've seen of KM when interviewed - not entirely sure he looks comfortable in the role.
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I'm edging towards thinking the job's Kevin's if he wants it. Whether he wants it is the big question.
I don't think he looks that comfortable, but then to be fair, he was probably just getting ready to prepare the kids and reserves for the new season, then all of a sudden, wham, he's manager, having to give interviews, sorting out the team for the new Premier League season and Europe, all inside two weeks.
That was the concern I had after Saturday's win. Coaching a team to a win against West Ham and managing full time is massively different. He's never had to do it before, even at a small club where the spotlight isn't remotely as intense. Managing a big club like Aston Villa needs a big personality that can handle the media scrutiny, player egos, time away from family, board and fan demands in their stride. As much as we could criticise MON for how handled it sometimes, and irrespective of what he got paid, it's got to be mentally and physically exhausting. You wouldn't want a good coach to get burnt out by the burdens of being a football manager if his heart really isn't in it.
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I'm not doubting Kev Macs ability to do the job, I think he could do it. My fear is that we would lose someone like him (and Tony McAndrew) to nuture some of the young talent that has come through the club.
He has to remain at the club for the long term benefit of the club.
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After the euphoria of Saturday has died down, I don't think he's the right man for us. Good bloke and we definitely have to keep him here - but we need a big name. We need to stay on the European map.
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Kev Mac has done a terrific job with reserves over the years, let him continue, he is obviously comfortable with that . He would have put his hat in the ring for job by now if he wanted it.
Felt sorry for him in a TV interview today when he said he hadnt had time to think about it as him, Tony McAndrew and Sid were helping each other out and doing their own original jobs still at the same time
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Let's hope we win on Sunday so everyone thinks Mac's great again.
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An ITK on another site is saying that Klinsmann was interviewed at the weekend and it's between him and KMac.
Someone told me Klinsmann was at Villa Park all day on Tuesday, and that I should have a bet on him at 25/1. I haven't though, as I can't help thinking that if it were true, the news would have spread like wildfire.
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An ITK on another site is saying that Klinsmann was interviewed at the weekend and it's between him and KMac.
Someone told me Klinsmann was at Villa Park all day on Tuesday, and that I should have a bet on him at 25/1.
Twenty fucking five to one?
Thanks and praises
Thanks to Jesus
I bet on the Bottle of Smoke
I went to Hell
And to the races
To bet on the Bottle of Smoke
The day being clear
The sky being bright
He came up on the left
Like a streak of light
Like a drunken fuck
On a Saturday night
Up came the Bottle of Smoke
Twenty fucking five to one
My gambling days are done
I bet on a horse called the Bottle of Smoke
And my horse won
Stewards inquiries
Swift and fiery
I had the Bottle of Smoke
Inquisitions and suppositions
I had the Bottle of Smoke
Fuck the stewards
A trip to Lourdes
Might give the old fuckers
The power of sight
Screaming springers and stoppers
And call out coppers
But the money still gleams in my hand like a light
Bookies cursing
Cars reversing
I had the Bottle of Smoke
Glasses steaming
Vessels bursting
I had the Bottle of Smoke
Slip a fifty to the wife
And for each brat a crisp new five
To give me a break on a Saturday night
When I had the Bottle of Smoke
Priests and maidens
Drunk as pagans
They had the Bottle of Smoke
Sins forgiven and celebrations
They had the Bottle of Smoke
Fuck the Yanks
And drink their wives
The moon is clear
The sky is bright
I'm happy as the horses shite
Up came the Bottle of Smoke
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You know, I'm starting to think of Klinnsman and K Mac being a sort of dream team. It would be a lot like Klinnsman and Loew with the German national team, with the bringing through of youth players and coaching teamwork. Would they wear matching suits though? It remains to be seen.
It's a funny one, because Loew's role within that team was understated in 2006, and now Klinnsman's is being understated now Loew's been a success without him. Fact remains they drew up the strategy together, and with the other coaches, and it's a strategy much like K Mac's and Randy's. It really does look an option to me, but I know others have different views of Klinnsman.
Care to expand on this, Monty? My knowledge of Klinnsman is limited to his goals and diving for Spurs and the blue shirts he wore when Manager of Germany. Everything else is a haze.
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Kevin MacDonald is a class act. I do get the feeling that he doesn't really like the media side of the job. IMHO I think that he has already told Randy that he doesn't really want the job permanently but as a good "company man" will do his best in the meantime. I think that he should of removed Heskey today at halftime.
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He has done a good job to date, but as far as i'm aware has never suggested he would even want the job full time. Seems a nice enough bloke, straight talking, but the concern is whether he has the ability to turn things round when inevitably the honeymoon period ends. Nobody can say with a degree of certainty, obviously, but i just feel you'd be more confident if it were someone with a bit of experience in charge, not just someone riding the wave.
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Let's hope we win on Sunday so everyone thinks Mac's great again.
Everyone thinks he is great. That's not the issue. It's whether he (personally and professionally) and the club are best served with him being manager, or whether he would be better off being a first team coach or assistant manager to a more experienced manager. Everyone appreciates the work he has done with the kids and reserves, and most recently with the senior players.
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my own view is that he will decide not to do it,
he's undecided at the moment, i think he'l say no because he doesnt want the job to take over his life.
he will stay on for however long it takes to find another manager.
just what i reckon, could be totaly wrong of coarse
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I think Kevin is a coach - and a bloody good one too - not sure he's a manager though.
That's not to say he couldn't play a more senior role in the future than he has in the past though - I'm just not sure it will be as manager.
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http://lifeiscinema.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/jurgen-klinsmann-almost-certain-to-be-new-aston-villa-manager/
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I'm also - from what I've seen of KM when interviewed - not entirely sure he looks comfortable in the role.
The job's his if he wants it. I hope he does.
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I want K-Mac to be here for another 20 years.. giving him the managers job means he wont be... Please leave him where he was/is...
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I posted in another thread about a Klinsman/MacDonald double act. I'd be VERY happy with it should it be the case!
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ffs, we have the creme de la creme of AVFC ITK and some bloke with a blog about cinema calls it within 24 hours of O'Neill leaving.
:-)
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http://lifeiscinema.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/jurgen-klinsmann-almost-certain-to-be-new-aston-villa-manager/
What does this say? I can't open it at work
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He knows fook all... says Klinsman is randys first choice...
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Well, as soon as Martin quit Klinsman was the first name that sprung into my mind. Just because Randy is taking his time and doing his research doesn't mean that he didn't immediately have a man in mind and will ultimately go back to them.
Sometimes you see the car you want to buy straightaway, but then keep looking to make sure it the best one you can get, while also checking the insurance, tax and running costs first, before going back and buying it!
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http://lifeiscinema.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/jurgen-klinsmann-almost-certain-to-be-new-aston-villa-manager/
What does this say? I can't open it at work
Apparently `Toy Story 3' is better than Shrek
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http://lifeiscinema.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/jurgen-klinsmann-almost-certain-to-be-new-aston-villa-manager/
What does this say? I can't open it at work
Apparently `Toy Story 3' is better than Shrek
well he got that right, he must know who the new man is then . ;-)
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Whilst understanding the Kevin Mac may not necessarily want the managers job and the pressures that come with it, from what we've seen of him so far, it seems a terrible waste to have him managing the reserves.
Having said that, that's based on MON's policy of having his favourites and only having to lower himself on the odd occasion to walk over to the 'fringe' pitch and asking to borrow one for a little while. Hopefully the new manager will have a far greater involvement that I suspect MON had*
*I could be ridiculously off the mark with that.
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I really think the club needs to act ambitiously at this point. This is a pivotal decision, and I don't think appointing from within is going to work.
I'm also - from what I've seen of KM when interviewed - not entirely sure he looks comfortable in the role.
I agree completely.
Appointing him as manager smacks of the time Ellis appointed Barton and promptly 'forced' him to sell off the crown jewels.
As I see it before Mon ran, General K was on here sprouting the need to use kids spiel, and it looks that KM has taken that fully on board.
Against West Ham, some quality players showed their desire to stay after Mon left and did a decent job with Milner against a poor side.
Last night a disjointed defence, muddled midfield and ineffective strike force, managed to pull off a result against a poor side. A good result, Mon did the same and ended with egg on his face, but there wasn't much between both performances.
We need a totally new approach, the playing side needs a huge shake up KM won't do that, and if RL does appoint him, then perhaps Mon had some justification in quitting.
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ElliS wasn't here when Barton was appointed manager!
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Appointing him as manager smacks of the time Ellis appointed Barton and promptly 'forced' him to sell off the crown jewels.
As I see it before Mon ran, General K was on here sprouting the need to use kids spiel, and it looks that KM has taken that fully on board.
Against West Ham, some quality players showed their desire to stay after Mon left and did a decent job with Milner against a poor side.
Last night a disjointed defence, muddled midfield and ineffective strike force, managed to pull off a result against a poor side. A good result, Mon did the same and ended with egg on his face, but there wasn't much between both performances.
We need a totally new approach, the playing side needs a huge shake up KM won't do that, and if RL does appoint him, then perhaps Mon had some justification in quitting.
You're related to that Iraqi General who held that press-conference claiming that there were no US troops anywhere near Baghdad whilst the Marines were waving to the cameras in the background, huh?
You must be. Only so many people in the world can talk such utter bollocks on a continual basis.
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If KM ultimately does not want the job, perhaps we could appoint someone able and willing to work with him as their right hand man but with KM out the media spotlight. Reading this from The Guardian indicates to me that he is a bit old school. That aspect of him I like, and I think its something that proper players like and respond to as well. However, these days being a Premier League manager is as much about handling the hype and media circus as handling players.
http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/icbirmingham/jun2007/9/1/76E46C5D-D887-B004-C3D1B12B075EADF8.jpg
MacDonald said, however, that he has realised the job is all-consuming and he harbours concerns his family will end up feeling "excluded".
"I think if you are a manager of a Premier League club your life is not going to be your own," he said.
"I've got to look at that because, as much as I love football, we all have lives outside of football and that would be taken away if you became a Premier League manager. It is difficult for families and I don't know how they feel because I've not really had time to talk to them. The people on the periphery get pushed to the side very quickly and I would be careful of that because it's quite important to me."
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ElliS wasn't here when Barton was appointed manager!
well spotted
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You aren't half talking a load of old twaddle on this thread Malcolm.
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Malcom keep taking the tablets
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Malcom keep taking the tablets
Or possibly don't.
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Out of interest, does last night nake K-Mac less or more likely to be our new manager? For me a draw is a draw and there were both good and bad points about the performance, so I'd say it's an 'as you were' position as to whether he's the right man or not!
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I don't think we should be judging who to appoint on the basis of two matches, to be fair. We've done well in them, but we should be looking mainly at what KM did before last week.
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I don't think we should be judging who to appoint on the basis of two matches, to be fair. We've done well in them, but we should be looking mainly at what KM did before last week.
Well, the way I see it is he should be judged on the same criteria as any other candidate - who'd do the best job. His advantage is that by being caretaker manager he builds up a more convincing case with each good result we get.
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I felt before last night he wasn't the right man for the job, and I still feel that.
Our hand may be forced if our other targets aren't available though.
I'd give him 4-5 games minimum. If we're still getting results and playing anywhere near as convincingly as we did v West Ham he'll have earned the right to take the thing on until Christmas -and possibly beyond.
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Even if we win the next four games, which isn't that unlikely, I think we'd be crazy to appoint KM solely on a good start. Reserve and fringe (frozen) players were always going to be out to prove a point following the managers departure.
I don't have any reason not to give him the job; I just hope that if he is given the job its based on a lot more than convenience and results in the first month of the season. ::)
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Even if we win the next four games, which isn't that unlikely, I think we'd be crazy to appoint KM solely on a good start. Reserve and fringe (frozen) players were always going to be out to prove a point following the managers departure.
I don't have any reason not to give him the job; I just hope that if he is given the job its based on a lot more than convenience and results in the first month of the season. ::)
Results will have a bearing though, I think that's obvious.
For all the positive noises coming out of Bodymoor Heath, if we'd got turned over by West Ham and had lost in Vienna by 2+ goals I don't think there would be a clamour to have him appointed.
We could still have him holding the fort well into the start of the season if results and performances are satisfactory enough. But making a long term decision/ commitment on that basis should be shied away from.
Even if a Klinsmann or similar took as long as Oct/Nov to be appointed, I wouldn't be unduly concerned. If they're the right appointment that's ultimately all that matters. I'd hope whoever it is would be willing to work with Kevin Mac and Sid though, and doesn't see a wealthy owner and decent sized club as an open invite to completely rebuild the club, spend shitloads and start again from scratch.
We need some fresh impetuous and ideas, that much should be clear. But we already have the nucleus of a good side. One or two signings in key areas should be enough to see us compete up around 6th-4th again.
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I don't think we should be judging who to appoint on the basis of two matches, to be fair. We've done well in them, but we should be looking mainly at what KM did before last week.
Well, the way I see it is he should be judged on the same criteria as any other candidate - who'd do the best job. His advantage is that by being caretaker manager he builds up a more convincing case with each good result we get.
Similarly, however, one bad result and it looks a lot less convincing.
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I don't think we should be judging who to appoint on the basis of two matches, to be fair. We've done well in them, but we should be looking mainly at what KM did before last week.
Well, the way I see it is he should be judged on the same criteria as any other candidate - who'd do the best job. His advantage is that by being caretaker manager he builds up a more convincing case with each good result we get.
Similarly, however, one bad result and it looks a lot less convincing.
Very true, which is why I was wondering how people's opinions may change after an 'average' result like last night. Does he HAVE to keep winning to be in the frame and one bad one and he's not eve on the radar, as he wasn't when MON first quit?
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I don't think we should be judging who to appoint on the basis of two matches, to be fair. We've done well in them, but we should be looking mainly at what KM did before last week.
Well, the way I see it is he should be judged on the same criteria as any other candidate - who'd do the best job. His advantage is that by being caretaker manager he builds up a more convincing case with each good result we get.
Similarly, however, one bad result and it looks a lot less convincing.
Very true, which is why I was wondering how people's opinions may change after an 'average' result like last night. Does he HAVE to keep winning to be in the frame and one bad one and he's not eve on the radar, as he wasn't when MON first quit?
The f word.
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I find KM difficult to read. Being in front of the TV cameras is such a big part of the job, he would have to find a way to do it.
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I find KM difficult to read. Being in front of the TV cameras is such a big part of the job, he would have to find a way to do it.
Maybe he could start giving his post match interviews through the gift of dance? That'd confuse 'em!
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I'd have been happy with a 1-1 away draw in Europe whoever was in charge or playing.
The fact that it was such an inexperienced side with a couple of the team playing for the first time makes it impressive. If we get a win on Sunday and then progress to the next round after a good home win, we can't argue.
MacDonald knows them all and has their respect, it's a great position to be in.
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I find KM difficult to read. Being in front of the TV cameras is such a big part of the job, he would have to find a way to do it.
Maybe he could start giving his post match interviews through the gift of dance? That'd confuse 'em!
I think a jazz drum solo would be equally effective
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I find KM difficult to read. Being in front of the TV cameras is such a big part of the job, he would have to find a way to do it.
Is this your way of saying you're putting your name forward?
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I think he should do his interviews through a Frampton style vocoder.
Or, have Cleo Laine scat them.
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Kev Mac needs to go down the Jethro Tull route, stand on one leg and play the flute, he'd be the talk of the Premiership.
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or like the creature out of Aphex Twin Come to Daddy video....
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His comments on the OS this morning only re-affirm the belief he wants to be a coach, not a manager.
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Judging by his body language and interviews, he is still mulling over the decision. I can actually sympathize him for finding himself in this position. Its a bit obvious he don't really fancy being a full time manager. He enjoys being a coach more. Moreover, he does not have the experience in the transfer market which is what we're kind of struggling at. Nonetheless, if good results continue to come our way, then let him have a chance at it I say.
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I have to say, the things he's said on the OS are pretty much what I've felt about him - some people are just better suited to being behind the scenes, coaching without the baggage of full management. He's still undecided, but he seems leaning towards not going for it full-time, which to me is the wise decision as if you're not sure, perhaps you shouldn't do it.